The Real Estate REplay
Host Wendy Gilch, and a rotating cast of expert co-hosts, break down the good, the bad, the unethical (and sometimes illegal) things other sellers and buyers experienced while buying or selling a home.
Learn what went right, what went wrong, what they would do differently and how to spot red flags before they become a problem.
The Real Estate REplay is powered by consumer advocate group, Selling Later.
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The Real Estate REplay
Collateral Damage: How Agents Clinging to the Status Quo in Commissions Hurt Consumers and Ethical Agents
The real estate industry is at a tipping point. On one side, you have agents clinging to old commission practices, refusing to adapt to a changing landscape (Group B Agents). On the other, forward-thinking agents are paving the way for transparency, fairness, and a better deal for their clients (Group A Agents). But while this battle unfolds, it’s the consumers—and ethical agents—who are taking the hit.
In this episode of Real Estate REPlay, Wendy sits down with Megan Herr, a no-nonsense “Group A” agent who’s been on the frontlines of this industry divide. Megan shares her personal stories of pushback, from angry phone calls and voicemails to navigating brokers who resist change. She also unpacks how this ongoing tug-of-war leaves buyers and sellers stuck in the middle and why agents embracing the future often find themselves under fire.
We’ll explore the broader implications of this commission clash—how outdated practices are failing consumers, how ethical agents are fighting an uphill battle, and what buyers and sellers need to know to protect themselves.
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Fast forward. I put it onto the MLS with. At that point it had to be some sort of money amount. So I made it the lowest that it could be in that realm. And my phone started ringing off the hook with people literally yelling at me Like agents, like hi, I don't work for free, what are you doing? I'm not showing your property unless you offer a commission.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Real Estate Replay. I'm Wendy Gilch, an industry outsider, here to reveal the hidden practices and explain the processes that can impact your next home purchase or sale. Alongside other industry misfits, we'll call out these poor practices and equip homebuyers and sellers with insights they need to protect themselves every step of the way. Welcome back to the Real Estate Replay, where we sift through the chaos and spotlight what really matters for homebuyers and sellers. Today's episode is all about the great divide Group A agents versus Group B agents. Is your agent stuck in the past, like group B, or are they paving the way for a better future with new ways to look at real estate commissions? Like group A is?
Speaker 2:We have a special guest, megan Herr, to unpack the pushback, the drama and the downright ridiculousness of an industry in transition. So grab your coffee, maybe a stiff drink it's a little too early for me for that, but wherever you're listening to, maybe it's time for you and let's dive into the hot mess that is real estate commissions, post-settlement. All right. So, megan, welcome to the chaos. Hopefully we stay on track, but, as we just discussed, I don't think that's going to happen. So, before we get into group A versus group B agents. Why don't you share a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 1:So I got in the real estate about three years ago. I was in pharmaceuticals for 20 plus years. What kind of was the straw that broke the camel's back was? My company was getting bought out. I heard that the manager coming in was a bear. She I like to make my own opinions of people, but she lived up to her reputation, so thankfully I kind of saw what was coming started. My real estate, like my class, was for license. I'm with Raymax Ready out of Conchahawken, how do you say it?
Speaker 2:Conchahawken yes, okay.
Speaker 1:You probably actually said it better than I do.
Speaker 2:What part of the state is that in?
Speaker 1:So it is a suburb of Philadelphia. We're in the same state and I have never heard of it, but that's okay, we have a lot of odd names around here and then I opened up a team office up in Royers Ford, which is a big part of where my market area is, and, yes, it's a legal office.
Speaker 2:We'll get into that one.
Speaker 1:But yeah, so I just I wanted to get into a career. I always loved real estate. I was watching all the million dollar listings from the last 20 years.
Speaker 2:I knew that's only a sliver of the truth what you see on TV, but it's something that most people don't ever figure that out, unfortunately, and they think like this is real life and it's not.
Speaker 1:it's not anyways go ahead, it's not, it's not glamorous, it's like you're not hosting these open houses where, like, you get like 100 people showing up and everyone's eating caviar and champagne. Yeah, no exactly and I just wanted to be able to provide the level of customer service that I think the people and the public and everybody needs someone in their actual corner, without putting their the agent's wallet first.
Speaker 2:And then you mentioned, or you mentioned, being the bad guy and I and this is why I picked you for this specific topic because we are in a transition with the real estate commission settlement, the lawsuits, like the whole kerfuffle that's been going on for the past year or two. But specifically there are two groups of real estate agents out there. There is the group A, who I like to think is being more open-minded about commissions looking at things a different way and kind of being a little more transparent andminded about commissions looking at things a different way and kind of being a little more transparent and more about negotiation. And then there's group B who's holding on to this past system in which some think they're, even, as a listing agent, setting the buy-side commission because it's their choice, not their clients. Just a really, really messy situation.
Speaker 2:Right now, the unfortunate part is that consumers are kind of in the middle. If you're working with a Group A agent who's doing something different, then the Group B agent's looking at you and you're like, oh, what's wrong with that seller? That seller's problematic, how dare they not offer a number up front? And there were a few things I caught. I mean, I catch a lot of shit online. But there's like this obsession with being cooperative and taking care of the other side, and so even recently I've caught agents posting. Here's one. It said I didn't say I'm willing to work for 3%. I said I'm willing to charge you, the seller, 6% so I can then split my commission with the buyer agent because I choose to Not correct. It's standard that listings in our area have enough commission to split with the buyer's agent. The other one said I'm charging my clients 6% and will offer the buyer's agent three. Without them I won't succeed in the same way around.
Speaker 2:So there's this problem with some people looking at how we do commissions differently, and then that group of people the group B people I just read about who feel like nothing needs to change. Some go as far as to say the lawsuit was a big hoax. So you've been operating as a Group A agent for a while, even in the rental space, before the settlement came through. So can you share the pushback you've received in doing this? Because I know you and I have shared a few stories, but I think it's important for this industry to understand that not everyone's doing things the same way, and the old school group of people are making it much worse for consumers and for people trying to do the right thing. So what is the pushback you've received trying to do things the right way?
Speaker 1:So there's a lot of stuff to unpack there which I'll probably get off on a tangent 's okay, I do it every day, it's as well and I and and hopefully at some point I'll answer the question, but um originally going into when the settlement happened, um which I am a big fan of the settlement, like complete. I was like bring it on, yes, finally, like you're gonna get some.
Speaker 2:You're getting some complaints to NAR about your name.
Speaker 1:I'm sure, exactly so, even before there. A story from before the settlement actually happened was last year I sold a rancher in Collegeville and with the listing appointment that I had with the with the client, she was like this is the money from the house, is what my mother is going to have to live off of for the rest of her life. I don't want to write out of the gate, offer up a buyer agent, commission. And she's like you're the second agent I interviewed. The first agent was like nope, I'm not doing it. Like you have to offer X right out of the gate or I'm not doing it. And I was like oh, okay.
Speaker 1:So then she saw my stuff on social media and she called me out. We had a conversation. I explained to her the pros and cons of doing it both ways. If anything, my listing appointments are almost two hours long because I just I give people too much information so that they can make a clear and educated decision about what path they want to go down. She ended up choosing me because I came into it with an open mind. I never did anything like that before. I went to my broker and he was like oh yeah, like you're completely within the right to be able to do that and to me that client's like that. What that client wanted makes made sense and I was more than happy to stand behind it. So, fast forward. I put it onto the MLS with at that point. It had to be some sort of money amount.
Speaker 1:So I made it the lowest that it could be in that realm. And my phone started ringing off the hook with people literally yelling at me Like agents, like hi, I don't work for free, what are you doing? I'm not showing your property unless you offer a commission. And I even had in the agent comment field call me to discuss why compensation is the way it is. Like. I welcome conversation, I love conversation, I love to talk to people and you can just get so much more information on a being nice and be just listening to what the person has to say. Right, it's such a simple skill that people just cannot do anymore and it burns my toast. So I had an agent schedule to a showing. They came out, they went over it. He called me. He's like, like we're writing up an offer and I'm like oh great, like no mention anywhere about the compensation like not, oh, whatever.
Speaker 1:So then, which I thought was kind of weird, because I I literally probably gotten at least five phone calls where agents yelled at me um, two of which put it on a voicemail, which I was like, oh my god you just recorded yourself steering, but when you have that saved somewhere, because if not, you could just send it my way.
Speaker 2:That's love, sister.
Speaker 1:I record everything and save you and I are in the same world.
Speaker 2:I have a whole folder and it's called just in case and it's just screenshots after screen. So I'm like, yes, ever know when you might need this to back yourself up my street, my side of the street, is always clean. Oh you Swifty, Are you a Swifty? Oh my.
Speaker 1:God, I am.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to get to Toronto.
Speaker 1:I just need someone to fly on the plane with me.
Speaker 2:I have a ticket to the concert. If someone picks up their, their, Right, so the, so the we'll get back talking about Taylor Swift.
Speaker 1:People are offended by my social media because I talk too much about Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2:Well, no, if someone has a problem with Taylor Swift, they're just weird. Okay, so the buyer?
Speaker 1:agent puts an offer in, exactly so the buyer agent is like writing up his offer and I guess he must've got to the commission part of things, because then he calls me and he was like what do you mean? You're not offering a compensation. And I'm like, oh, finally you see it.
Speaker 2:Can you read? Was it because it was just assumed, right? He?
Speaker 1:assumed that he was making X amount. And when he started putting stuff in to write up the offers, when he saw that you shouldn't assume and so he called me, he initially started to get really nasty. Like I don't work for free, I work for a certain amount, and I'm like, okay, I'm like put it in the offer and like we can negotiate it. I said, if it's a good, and I explained to him why my seller didn't want to come out with a set price. She was kind of figuring that with how the condition of the house was, she was going to get a low ball offer and then she would have to automatically pay someone X amount. And so I told the, I told the agent, I said, hey, I'm like write in what you feel you want. I will go back to my seller. She does know that she's that it's a good idea to offer something, but she really wants to see what the offer is first before she says yes or no.
Speaker 2:Which is fair, which is 100% fair, but just did not happen Like pre-settlement something. But she really wants to see what the offer is first before she says yes or no, which is fair, which is 100% fair, but just did not happen, like pre-settlement. That did not happen Because of what happened to you the phone calls, the threats, the voicemails that I hope you can share, hopefully, share them with me, maybe we can play them at the end for everybody. Yeah, but that whole situation set it up. So then what happened?
Speaker 1:I ended up kind of like talking him like off the ledge and we ended up settling on something where he was happy, my seller was happy, everybody was happy, and what I did say to my seller was a lot of people are not going to share the listing Like they're going to come up with their own narrative on why they're not going to share the listing, like they're going to come up with their own narrative on what it on, on why they're not going to show the listing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:The seller's difficult. That's the one I see most often. Why would you deal with someone who doesn't value? Uh, well, what was it? I forget what I saw the other day. It was like uh, or. The latest is why would you, um, hire a listing agent who can't even, uh, negotiate their commission so that everyone's paid, or something stupid like that. I'm like, oh my God, so that worked out. But that was probably your first taste of the issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that was my first taste of knowing how difficult the settlement was going to be. Fast forward to now. It's like I get buyers and sellers, I get investors. I started property management in January. A lot of things these agents cannot wrap their heads around is that, with investors and rentals, none of my commissions are exactly the same between landlord A, b, c, d, e, f, g, all the way down the list. I work with over 30 different landlords and, depending on how big their portfolio is, how much business they give me is how much my commission is based off of to them. So you have these agents who just assume that I'm getting the quote unquote standard amount, which I'm not. I don't know if, but everybody knows and it's not, and they just assume that they're going to get half of what that is. So when I start, Hold on.
Speaker 2:So in the rental world kind of commissions were looked at the same right.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, yes.
Speaker 2:So some problem exists.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, just on a lower commission scale. And so they just automatically assume they're getting X when they're not. And then I get more text messages, phone calls, this way, this way, because she's closed over 15 rentals last year, and I said oh honey, and so she's upset because you weren't offering something to her upfront.
Speaker 1:That and I wasn't offering what she thought she wanted. And I'm like, if I'm not paying enough for you, then I'm like you need to have a conversation with your buyer to pick up the access, like the access. And I'm like people just cannot talk to their buyer, like their clients, whether it's a tenant or a buyer like they just cannot have that conversation.
Speaker 2:And I think that's part of the good thing about the settlement is that those conversations are being forced to have well.
Speaker 1:I don't think you're a realtor are happening.
Speaker 2:They're not. Oh God, All right, go into this. Why? What happened?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean I like I've had people where they're literally with their client behind the back of the vehicle talking about their commission.
Speaker 2:What Wait, what Like, before they go in to look at your home, before they even go in because I won't say anything.
Speaker 1:I'm like my landlord and or my seller is willing to offer a compensation and or my seller is willing to offer a comp like compensation, like write it into, like submit an application, like we don't even know if you're, if your tenant is getting picked, so I don't know what the big deal is. You're still going to have to come out and show the property like regard, like regardless, and so I will get like so this particular agent in the text message was um, when he was asking about comp, uh, compensation, cause that's usually always the first thing, it's not anything about the property, what, what's in it for the client, um, anything like that. It's always like oh, I see that I have to make a showering request through you and what is the compensation? And I'm like, at least try to put your client first.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Before, and so I'll give them my my. Like my little cans spiel Right, oh well, what are you trying to hide? What are you trying to hide?
Speaker 2:There's nothing. There's nothing to hide, and you know there's nothing to hide.
Speaker 1:You will get paid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to just ask for it, that's all.
Speaker 1:You just got to ask. Don't come at me demanding anything. Nothing is in my listing contract about what we're paying out another landlord or what a landlord is willing to pay.
Speaker 2:Or even a listing client correct.
Speaker 1:Exactly All of that's blank.
Speaker 2:I think that's what these group B agents don't understand is that you know some forward thinking brokers. Like what you're doing and like what James Dwigans and a few other people are doing is like we're just not even telling them to put a number down, not that they won't pay anything, but they just want to see because what your owed is between you and the buyer, so just ask for it because you don't know what's in their contract. And so if you put out so, let's say in a listing, 3%, and so the agent's standing behind the car waiting to go into the property and you're telling them 3% and they're like, well shoot, I was going to have them sign for two and a half. I guess I'll just change this and make it three now in the agreement. You're just putting your seller at risk of maybe paying more than they needed to. But I think the problem goes into. In the past it was like it was set right. It was that I'm going to charge you 6% and we're going to offer 3% to the other side. And so these group B agents think that you're still having your client set a number up front and they think you're like lying or you're hiding something and the problem with that goes into. I think I sent you this.
Speaker 2:There was a Coldwell banker agent in Colorado who said they have a clause in their state contract that lets the agent pretty much steer the buyer away from homes. But it's not steering because the buyer told them so. So it says broker is directed to only show properties that have a compensation offer of at least, and then they can write in whatever they want. Now this agent told me it was a state-approved section and it's not. It's in this section 21 that says anything basically in this section is not state-approved. So Coldwell Banker added this, at least her office, which is really dumb, because if this buyer is going up to one of your properties in which you're like, hey, we're open to it, put it in an offer, the broker can say well, look, they told me, I'm not going to be able to show the home unless you're offering this much and like squeeze you and it just.
Speaker 2:I don't understand why someone would even put that, because you're putting a buyer at risk of not seeing a home that might've paid, which I have some examples too, because this came up in a conversation about we call it skipping the home and these stupid things, and there were agents that said show the house and submit a really good offer with your fees included. She said like mine recently they did. They said they didn't want to pay it until they saw the offer come in and it beat the other offers, including the commission, and they got the offer. Another one said the same thing.
Speaker 2:Like I asked my buyer if they're okay to have me negotiate the commission with the seller, even though they weren't offering anything, they said yes. I went back to the listing agent, told them what the buyer wants and the seller agreed to pay the commission. So these people that are telling you you don't have to see a home if it's not offering this, it really does the buyer a disservice because you're missing out on homes that probably would have paid it depending on your offer, but because you signed this now they don't have to.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's like their excuse, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's like I learned pretty quickly. Any agent can package up a statement to their client in a way that makes them seem like they're the expert and that the client should be able to trust them.
Speaker 2:Right, and you know what? It's funny? You say that too, because when I see people talk about this in the Facebook groups or wherever they are, it's always well, my client told me that they don't want to see homes that aren't offering my commission or more. And I'm thinking like well, what did you tell your client? Did you tell them the seller's probably difficult, did you tell them? And some of them even say I turn around and tell my seller hey, you're going to pay me out of pocket. Yeah, that's not necessarily true. No, and it's not like there's ever a guarantee that an offer is going to be accepted, like regardless of commission. Exactly, your offer is never like awesome, just give me your paperwork, let's go.
Speaker 1:Which is like mind blowing to me that these people will not come out and show a property, whether or not it's a for sale listing or if it's a for rent listing. Everything is still the same as it was months ago, like you're still showing properties, you don't know if your client's getting picked. You're still showing properties, you don't know if your client's getting picked, so you're still wasting that time and gas money to come show a property. But back then and to now it's not an automatic shoo-in that we're even picking your client. So show the property what you feel you're owed as a buyer, agent, compensation, put it into the offer.
Speaker 1:I have yet to have a landlord, a seller, anyone, not pay out some sort of a commission. I understand how. I've done enough transactions on both sides to be able to intellectually speak and to know what the pros and cons are of everything for everyone, and especially tenants. Tenants don't usually have enough money for first, last and security, which a lot of my landlords require before moving. Some of them don't, some of them do, but it's like as soon as you come out of the norm, it's like every agent, a lot of agents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, You're going to get an email. I'm going to get an email, oh my.
Speaker 1:God speaking, you're gonna get an email. I'm gonna get an email. Oh my god, there's probably like my picture up on the narwhal. Oh, but the thing is, you're not the animal, the, the, not the.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, the nar the altar wall of of um troublemakers I'm sure my picture is very close to yours, so it's okay, um, but you know.
Speaker 2:Real quick to go back.
Speaker 2:There was another thing I saw I wanted to read and it was this agent that said, after explaining all of this to my buyers, the four I'm currently working with specifically said to only send them or schedule to see homes where buyer agent compensation is offered at X or higher, which I'm like, why higher If you know what you're getting.
Speaker 2:Is what you're getting? Yeah, no, I reach out to the listing agents and ask if it's not offered. I don't send it to the buyer or schedule to show it, and just send them a list where it is offered, but it's quote per the buyer's request. So my question is what happens if you told your buyer this dream home, they like that they're not offering compensation, and you signed this clause. So like you told me buyer this dream home, they like that they're not offering compensation, and you signed this clause. So, like you told me to skip it, we're going to skip it, yeah, so then the buyer finds out somehow that who did buy that uh went to see it, requested that commission be paid and got it paid and they closed right yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you're the buyer's going to try to be like hey, agent, like why didn't you tell me that was a possibility? Even if the agent did, it's you versus them and it's not going to look good for you if they're going on a Google review, like they told me this, we missed out on a home because they didn't explain it to me. It's like just show the damn home. I don't understand why.
Speaker 1:I believe in less is more Like the less roadblocks as possible.
Speaker 2:I want to get to brokers in a minute, yeah, but since we talked about the realtor wall of shame that you and I are both proudly on, I'm sure, but it's just funny because it's like we're the ones who are really doing.
Speaker 1:What the code of ethics is all about is putting your clients first, fiduciary first, all of it first, your clients first, fiduciary first, all of it first. And it's like we're the ones and you're not a licensed agent. I am, and it's. I get more pushback and more slack from my fellow agents who are. They go by the same code of ethics and I'm one who is actually living and breathing it and I'm the one getting the most darts thrown at me and I think it's just, it's a double standard.
Speaker 1:I find it interesting to the point where it's almost comical because, I'm the one doing what my, what I signed up to do, right, what my pocketbook let like last. And if my people want to see it, my people see it. I never asked a cooperating or like a buyer, agent or, oh my God, a seller agent or a agent who was representing a landlord. I never asked about compensation, never. It never comes up because I don't care. I don't care what they're paying me, because I have these conversations already with my people.
Speaker 2:Right and I think you know the problem. I think why some people ask which is going away is that commissions were like in a in a wholesome right. So I'm going to charge you 6% and we're going to share three of it. And in the past if you came as a buyer and you didn't have an agent, like the listing agent, just get to keep the whole 6% right and there's no savings for the seller. And so now, thankfully, with newer contracts, that wording is kind of going away. There are some states, there's some cities in Ohio which still have it. So people need to be careful, but the whole commission sharing need to be careful, but the whole commission sharing. I don't even understand why those smaller areas would even have that.
Speaker 2:But it leads me to this story I came across in which this person who posted it probably thinks I'm a psychotic stalker. They posted this on Reddit and it talked about their frustration of trying to do the right thing not offering compensation upfront, but like negotiating it and having a conversation and the amount of pushback they got simply because they were trying to do what they think is the new way and the right thing, to do this appropriately, and they couldn't even get support from their broker because another agent in their own office was basically saying like, oh, I'll remember this next time I have a listing, or something like that. They took it personal, like a personal attack, that he wasn't offering commission upfront and it has nothing to do with a personal attack and everything to do with just strategizing with your seller. It's not, it's not like an insult, and so that's why, you know, I go back to like how, how you appreciate your broker.
Speaker 2:I look at like James Dwiggins, who's really leading people the right way and explaining what this looks like. But then you have people like this poor person who's in a small town which I have a theory that small towns probably have a bigger issue with this than maybe the bigger ones and he's like how do I do the right thing if I'm getting basically ousted? Right, people don't want to work with me, so it's going to affect my clients. And when I tell my broker about this, he tells me, well, that's the way they do their business. And so it's like well, and I asked this person.
Speaker 1:I was like you should You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Speaker 2:And so I messaged this person and I was like, hey, like you should really report them. And he's like, well, it's my broker. His broker also says he's not showing homes that don't get a commission upfront. Uh, and he said it's all legal and it's fine because his lawyers for the brokerage told him it's okay. And I was like, okay, great, give me his name, I'll report him. Like what do you want me to do? How can I help you? Yeah, I blew up a ton of things and this person never wrote me back because they probably think I'm a psycho. You're listening and that's you. I swear I'm a nice person.
Speaker 1:I was just trying to help you. People think I am so mean and I'm not. I am literally paying a portion of a tenant's rent cell phone bill, like all of this electricity, so that she doesn't get evicted from her current place because she's 85 years old and her social security doesn't make enough money to support her and she takes care of her 21 year old grandson who is has some learning disabilities and she has to work full time and she got let go of her job because she was having medical issues, which is to be expected at 85 ish years old. Yeah, and people will. I just I look back.
Speaker 1:I just like sit back and I'm like people will I? Just I look back, I just like sit back and I'm like I am not a mean person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you're getting reported like you are.
Speaker 1:But I'm getting, I'm being portrayed as the villain.
Speaker 2:I'm being portrayed as someone who is not flexible. I think that's the big problem is you are being flexible with the person paying you to do your job. You're doing the right thing by the person that hired you. It's not about taking care of the person who's going to negotiate against them Like and that mentality is just has got to go away Like you're working for the person that hired you, right? It's not about being friends the person that hired you, right. It's not about being friends and there's like really, really big agents on TikTok who make posts like oh yeah, all my sellers are still offering two and a half percent and I always do cooperative compensation.
Speaker 1:I don't play those games and I want the path of least resistance because at the end of the day, it's easier for them. Yep, I don't take the easy route, I, and that's what's making my business Like I think. Last year, I think I sold two years. In was. Last year, I think I sold eight houses. Maybe this year I'm up to like 13, 14, possibly.
Speaker 2:Right, Just because you're doing the right thing and you're leading with focusing just on what, what's right for your client, not the other side, not the and just I don't know and I don't know how you, I don't know how NARF fixes that, but it.
Speaker 1:Well, I think NARF fixes it by just stop, just cut it off, Just buyers just pay their own representation, Like because these agents cannot help themselves to not keep themselves out of trouble. And if they're looking at me and what I do and what as a bad thing, it just kind of goes to show you how many agents are still out there in the world looking out for themselves as number one.
Speaker 2:Because if they're thinking what I do is the problem, then even though what you're doing is the way it should be doing it done Right.
Speaker 1:Um, because it puts the client at the forefront and their needs, and wants first before, before my needs, and wants Right and it's it's like Look down and frown upon and it's just, it's. I just, I think NAR just needs to get away from it.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'll say this because you probably can't, because the last time I had someone on to talk about NARA, they got a letter within like a week saying to retract their statement. So I'll say it. You don't have to, it's just my opinion. But you know, they were telling people up front that they're going to fight this and they're going to win, and at that same time we're behind doors negotiating a settlement, right? So you misled people from the beginning about what was going to happen, right? So then you come to the settlement in their first big video with I forget who did it, I think it was Kevin.
Speaker 1:I don't remember.
Speaker 2:It was like, hey, we're no longer going to have commissions on the MLS. But then it was like a wink, wink, I'm sure you guys will figure out how to find it and I was like like nothing changed. Like the way you're, I feel like maybe they were too afraid to say what you should really do, because then everybody would leave and you know how much they need those membership fees, because it's like millions and millions and millions of dollars, yeah and so. And it's interesting because, like they settled right. So who's left? Individual brokers who end up continuing to do the same thing to get in trouble again.
Speaker 1:Like it's just you know the good that they do and I love being to have my designation as being a realtor, because I think it definitely separates and makes you someone who clients can trust If you're doing it the correct way. Right, I wish the reporting system. I just I wish there was some like I wish there were some changes. Yeah, I don't, I just I wish there was some change, like I wish there were some changes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I reported someone there. There's an agent in Massachusetts who's had like lawsuits against them outside of court. One of them signed an NDA, so they couldn't tell me too much, but from what they did, tell me was enough that someone should have lost their license, but they didn't, and so this person is a very big problem. They were in the media again last year for something that was pretty sketchy, wasn't able to be proven in court, but two witnesses were able to validate what this person did, and I found out that this person this year is over-exaggerating and not being truthful about how many homes they've closed this past year, so completely misleading false advertising. A bunch of different agents in the area are like. This person is not even being truthful, like their business is awful. Here's the reasons why.
Speaker 2:Well, a lot of these agents, if they're on a team, will use their team closings as their own listings, but even adding up all of her team listings, and I had different people send me reports way off, like at least off by 20 homes, and so I went on this state place to report her and it wasn't very clear where it's like fill out this form. And I'm like, where is this form? Why can't I just like press a button? So I emailed someone head up and was like hey, like, just as an FYI, here's what this agent's doing. They have a very problematic history. You might want to look into this.
Speaker 2:And I also said, hey, you might want to make it a little bit easier for consumers to navigate, like submitting a complaint, because I don't think it was clear. And they wrote me back and they're like we've never had anyone complain that it's hard to submit a complaint and we don't really look at this false advertising, blah, blah, blah, even though it's in the like, there was a whole section in the ethics code of like why this is not okay. And just completely brushed me off and I was like here you have a problematic agent with multiple, multiple lawsuits against them, still doing business. I give you one piece of information that could at least help you diminish them and, like, get them out because they're part of your bad reputation and you do nothing and instead you're mad at me because I told you your reporting system could be more consumer friendly, like insulted that I said that and never got back to me. And then that's even something minor, like what happens with the bigger stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I just or even for an agent to report another agent without anyone knowing or being able to do it safely, or punishing people who report people for something that wasn't wasn't wrong, cause you're getting. You get a ton of shit from yeah For just not putting commission upfront and being able to negotiate it, and I appreciate it. And I get messages every week like you should look into this or like I'm really frustrated because I'm not getting supported and this and that. So like I'm not surprised and I appreciate people, but like hey, go on real estate mastermind on the Facebook and every day there's people on there talking about like things that are so far against the settlement, so far against it. I don't understand how dumb you have to be to a continue to do that activity but B to just proudly post it Like to just be like yeah, no, this is my commission and if I choose to share it, I'm going to share it and I'm like, oh my God, yeah.
Speaker 1:Why they don't, and a lot of it comes back to the broker not doing their licensees Like like, like they're not. If you got your license, okay, bye, Go out and make me some money.
Speaker 2:Yep, and I have a theory on this. Just, consumers were told that buyer agents are free. Why wouldn't you use one Like it's free? Go use one. I mean up until two years ago, when the DOJ was like stop it, please stop. Did NAR put rules in place to say stop saying that?
Speaker 1:My broker even said going through his classes, like after I got licensed I met with him for a year straight, every week for a year, for an hour. We went over everything, anything and he was, he said, never stay free, Like that should never come up in your marketing, that should never come up in anything. You like you. You say like like no one is free, Nothing is free, Right. And they never come from your mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there are still agents on tiktok that like will say free, or they'll hint to it, right, and and so so we did this big disservice to buyers to say like, hey, we're free, use me, don't worry about it. And so I don't think that buyers had a really big expectation of like what their agent should be doing, right, like well, it's free, I'll use them, I'm not paying for it. And then you have this gluttony of agents that come in that aren't trained, that aren't meeting with their broker every week and really don't offer a service that's worth anything close to what they got paid Not everybody, but some of them. And so now you're like you know post-settlement oh, just kidding. Like we're not free, here's what we cost. And consumers are like, well, I didn't get that service. Like you didn't do that, I didn't get that when I bought a home. Like my service was awful and that's not everybody but there was never an education of like what a true buyer agent with a fiduciary duty was going to do for you.
Speaker 2:And now you're just expecting consumers and buyers to grab it right now, like they're putting out talking points of 150 things that a buyer agent does. And I'm like you have to prove that. And your past history for some people doesn't show that. It doesn't just change every night and your reputation's already been tanking. So, like, how are you going? I don't know how they solve that, I don't know. That's my theory. I was, like you spent so much time saying you're free. People associated your value to essentially like getting a buy one, get one coupon right. Like, oh, I'll get it, it's free. And now you want to tell them it's not free and it's like a percentage. It comes to thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars and we'll wait a minute. Like, what are you doing for that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you've got to really drive home your value. And it's like these clients are not going to want to pay you to show them houses and then, as soon as you get something out off, like under contract, you're like, okay, now I'm going to turn you over to my transaction.
Speaker 2:And I'm going to charge you for it. I'm going to charge you a $450 fee for a transaction coordinator yeah, that's really hired to help me make more business, but here here's a fee for you.
Speaker 1:But it's like, and with how I do it, I'm still the number one point of contact. I even I started a team, and which I had to do in order to get a team office, but we still work as solo agents. It's like a singular point of contact from start to finish. I never am one of those agents that, during escrow, sit back. I'm showing up to anything and everything that I can be a part of. I will meet with, like, home inspectors or with appraisers, and when they come out to photograph the property and I'll always ask them because I'm curious how many agents show up to this because they'll usually look at me and be like, oh, like you're here and I'm like, yeah, I'm like it's gonna be easier for you if I show up. I know where the HVAC system is, I know where the leak was. It's easier for everyone If the listing agent, whoever is familiar with the property, shows up.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think that's the point of like hiring let's be realistic, right, cause you can do things yourself. So hiring an agent is really like, if you have no clue what you're doing, you don't want to deal with it, yeah Right. And so then they hire you because they don't want to deal with any of this shit and you show up. But sometimes that's not the case and they're still dealing with the shit, and then they're like, well, why am I paying you If I'm the one doing all this when, like, I hired you so I don't have to deal with it? It's so.
Speaker 2:Let's switch gears, because I want to talk about buyers really quick. So we have group A agents who are like leading the right way and changing and evolving with the industry, and then group B who don't want to change, who are putting clauses in their contract to skip the home, all of that bullshit. And so my question to you is what should buyers be asking when interviewing agents to make sure they're working with an agent who understands the process? So what do you ask to find a group A agent?
Speaker 1:If I could say, like one thing to the general public is to really do your research on your agents, interview more than one, see what people are offering, because at the end of the day, everyone is a salesperson. There are some brokerage houses that are more up to feed you scripts and what you should say, and so you have these agents, in my opinion, who recite the same old thing. They can make anything seem like it is in the in their client's best interest. They can package anything to make it seem like that dual agency is the best. Pick me, because I'm the best and I'm going to work hard and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. You don't want someone who you don't want to work with, someone who's not offering a commission right out of the gate.
Speaker 2:Like.
Speaker 1:I think that's the best question is like you can package anything in any way to make you sound amazing, and and the client is OK, I'll go with you they sign on the dotted line and then that's when the truth comes out.
Speaker 2:So it's almost like one of the best questions I think should be is hey, while you're interviewing them, so what happens if we get to a home and we're not really sure if they're offering commission or not? What do we do? And if they tell you we can skip that, if we can't get an answer, I would run, just run to somebody else Like end of end of discussion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Move on. A lot of people don't know that they can do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:They probably. They're not, they're not getting told that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can be negotiated, just negotiate it Like any other point in the process, you negotiate it.
Speaker 1:Everything with real estate can be negotiated.
Speaker 2:Right, right. But you know, if they come on that group B agent and they say, well, you know, if they're not offering, then you'd have to pay me. So if you want, we can put it in the contract that we just skip those homes, which is pretty much probably what the Coldwell banker person was doing, because it's literally in their contract, yeah, to basically steer them away from homes. But it's, it's legit, because the buyer told me so.
Speaker 1:And you said it before. What are they telling you to make that sound legit?
Speaker 2:Right, Right and it's.
Speaker 1:It's so frustrating, I just I did a deal recently where I was the seller agent and during my my listing I say the pros and cons of offering a commission upfront and I offer the pros and cons of waiting to negotiate, like waiting until offers come in and negotiate what agents want and the majority of my, if not all they're like. Well, yeah, like it makes sense to just have everyone negotiate, right and that's all they wanted, like that's really all in this settlement.
Speaker 2:There's so many conspiracy theories. I've heard one person say, oh, these lawsuits came up because the government wants to take away women's jobs. I heard another one it's just there's.
Speaker 1:There's so many there's so much mixed messaging and everyone has an opinion about it and everyone thinks that they have the right opinion about it I.
Speaker 2:I just oh, it's so frustrating I. So it sounds like it comes down to like nars not, in my opinion, like leading positive change um, someone out of fear because they don't want to upset the apple cart, but like it really comes down to your broker. And if your broker is in the group B, who doesn't want to change, like you should probably leave uh and find someone who sits in group a, because I can't I can't fathom that you're going to tell your seller this is what you should offer, cause this is standard. Like you shouldn't, even if you have a seller that wants to offer something, like if you're an agent, telling them what they should offer to the other side. I feel like that's very risky because you're falling into that Like well, here's what everyone else charges. Or you live in Minnesota and every single freaking buyer's agent in Minneapolis charges 2.7%. Like it's, that's going to come to a head.
Speaker 1:What needs to happen, in my opinion, is that we just they put the hammer down and just people agents are still showing up with unsigned listing contracts or unsigned buyer agency contracts. They're still doing it in the rental side of things, they're still doing it on the buying side of things, and it's. I just think that they think they're not going to get caught, and it's. I mean it's.
Speaker 2:Well, and you think about it like NARS said, hey, we're going to make all these changes. And then they turned around and went to the MLS and literally said like Godspeed, it's your problem, now you enforce it.
Speaker 1:I don't want to say it's mixed messaging, but they really didn't give. Everything was up to someone's own interpretation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, which, honestly, they should have been blunt from the beginning, but I don't think they did because they were afraid everyone would leave. They should have been very more forward about what you could do.
Speaker 1:It should have been, it needs to be. When you don't put stuff in black and white, you open it up to a whole lot of gray.
Speaker 2:And here we are now.
Speaker 1:Well, you have, you have bad brokers and you have amazing brokers, and the bad brokers are going to perceive it as their own type of gray. And then you're going to have the agents, like the licensees, take what they're being fed and putting their feelings to it, which are gray, and so you have the blind leading the blind, leading the blind. And then you have the people who get it because they have a good broker and they're trying to really give people the tools and the knowledge to make these decisions. And then you're getting labeled as like the bad guy yeah, as like the bad guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because you're doing things with the best gray that you have.
Speaker 2:You're on like the safe part of gray.
Speaker 1:I'm on the safe part of gray.
Speaker 2:Right, some other people are like hanging out on the rain cloud and I don't know what's going to happen to them. Okay, so let's wrap it up One thing that you think buyers or sellers should know as they look into maybe jumping into buying or selling within the next year.
Speaker 1:Interview more than one agent.
Speaker 2:Oh, good, Lord, please please.
Speaker 1:If interview, I think I should be in your one of the agents you call to interview.
Speaker 2:If you live in the, you can remember how you say it now. Yes, that's a lot, that's a mouthful Sorry to anyone that lives there. I'll get it right at some point, but so go ahead.
Speaker 1:Oh you Pittsburghians.
Speaker 2:I know I don't say yins, I can, I don't say I don't, I don't talk like them, but I also can't, yeah, I can't embrace other things, okay, so interview people.
Speaker 1:I interview a lot of other other agents. I will not be offended if, on as I'm walking out the door, someone else is walking in that's business, I mean this. It's real estate and you need to look at reviews. I've had clients actually ask for references of previous sellers and or buyers. I don't mind, I'll give people every single transaction I've ever done. You got to do your due diligence on the agent you're going to pick.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Can't fall for their marketing. You can, anybody can sell themselves to anything.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Or any reason, and they can make anything look good. Ask for the facts.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think it's worth saying too. If you're interviewing someone on the team, I think you need to ask them like who am I going to be working with? Because there are some teams that send their heavy hitter yeah, it's all the homes under their name and gets you to sign with them, and then you won't see them again, maybe until the closing table. You will work with everybody else but them, and most of those people might not have anywhere near the experience that the beginning person claimed to have.
Speaker 1:So they land the listing and then you're pawned off on the system.
Speaker 2:Yep. And then, when you're talking to them about commission, if they're telling you to skip a home, pass on them. Skip them instead. And as a listing, if you're looking for someone to list a home, pass on them, skip them instead and, as a listing, um, if you're looking for someone to list your home, I think it's really important that they explain to you, um, how things can be negotiated, versus telling you. If they're telling you, I charge 3% and I, uh, we charge the buyer agent, uh, we charge you 3% for that as well. Like, just run, just run. I mean, it's just not.
Speaker 1:If they're not showing you something that you want to see and they're giving excuses run.
Speaker 2:Be done.
Speaker 1:No, there is no. In my opinion, there is no reason for a buyer agent or a tenant agent giving you an excuse as to why you cannot see a property.
Speaker 2:And if the excuse is commission run Exactly Technically true either? Oh yeah, god, we can go on forever. We'll do a part two and we'll just talk about all your emails and stuff that you get, and I'll share some of mine too, because we get a lot of fan mail and unfortunately for me and you. Ok, thank you for me on and good Lord. An hour and a half later, here we are.
Speaker 1:I know Right.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for sharing, and we'll do a part two and maybe dive more into, you know, because I don't talk about the rental side of thing a lot.
Speaker 1:And that's the people that get screwed the most is these tenants.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think it's important that people understand that this whole commission thing. Really the same situations occur in the rental world in a lot of places about what's being offered, what's not and how that works. So, um, all right, and if anybody wants to reach out to you, what's the best way? Um, I know you're on selling later, but what other ways?
Speaker 1:um either email or texting.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I'll put it in the um, in the podcast script too, so people have it. Have a story or a question you want to share? Hit us up at therealestatereplaycom.
