The Real Estate REplay
Host Wendy Gilch, and a rotating cast of expert co-hosts, break down the good, the bad, the unethical (and sometimes illegal) things other sellers and buyers experienced while buying or selling a home.
Learn what went right, what went wrong, what they would do differently and how to spot red flags before they become a problem.
The Real Estate REplay is powered by consumer advocate group, Selling Later.
www.sellinglater.com/resources
The Real Estate REplay
2025 Real Estate Crystal Ball: Dual Agency, Pocket Listings, and Dodging Industry Shenanigans
What’s on the horizon for homebuyers and sellers in 2025? Spoiler: It’s a mix of opportunity, challenges, and the same old industry antics. In this casual episode, we’re breaking it all down with the help of Fred Glick, a non-traditional broker and founder of Arrivva, who likes to shake things up in real estate.
We dive into the murky waters of dual agency (and why you should run the other way), the growing prevalence of pocket listings, and the lawsuits that could change the rules of the game...again. Fred brings his candid insights on bad brokerage practices and shares how consumers can better protect themselves and their wallets.
But wait, there’s more! We also veer off track a bit—because sometimes the juiciest revelations come from the unexpected. We will talk about the hit piece on the CFPB, the Department of Justice and more!
Whether you’re planning to buy, sell, or just stay informed, this episode is packed with real talk, practical advice, and a few moments of WTF real estate conversations that we normally edit out so that we don't get cease and desist letters!
Enjoy!
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How do you lie to your clients on national TV and like are they claiming they're innocent? Please tell me they're saying they didn't do anything wrong. I'm sure that's like the MO for everybody? Oh, of course not.
Fred Glick:It wasn't lying, it was just a salesmanship.
Wendy Gilch:Welcome to the Real Estate Replay. I'm Wendy Gilch, an industry outsider, here to reveal the hidden practices and explain the processes that can impact your next home purchase or sale. Alongside other industry misfits, we'll call out these poor practices and equip homebuyers and sellers with insights they need to protect themselves every step of the way. I'm super glad that we are meeting today, Fred, because you know we have talked many times. We always share emails back and forth about stuff going on in the industry, and there is so much going on that I thought it would be good to do like a what to watch out for in 2025 for homebuyers or home sellers, because nobody really knows what will happen. Administration wise CFPB, holding people accountable, making sure companies are screwing over consumers like nobody knows what will happen, because the administration coming in doesn't seem to focus too much on that. That's as far as I'll go about politics on there, but I thought it would be good to kind of highlight a few issues that you and I talk about all the time to help give consumers a better idea of what to watch out for to protect themselves.
Wendy Gilch:We've talked many times before, but many people might not know who you are. So if, Fred, you can give like a two minute recap of cause you. I should phrase that Fred is on the outsider loop with me on the industry. He has a non-traditional brokerage, as you would call it. He's always looking out for consumers, but he sees a lot of the stuff that I don't get privy to all the time and he always shares it with me. So thank you for that. But anyways, give just like a two minute about you, Ariva, and how you got into this.
Fred Glick:Sure, I've been hanging around the real estate business pretty much all my life. My parents were both brokers. My mother was one of the first brokers in Pennsylvania as a female. But after college I went to work for a guy who started buying apartment buildings and I started running that and running the finances, running real estate. And next thing I know he was kind of done. So I moved on, I got into the residential mortgage business. Then I looked at all these deals that were coming in and realizing these real estate agents had no idea what they were doing and this was too easy so I got into both.
Fred Glick:So I've been doing residential stuff since the 90s basically, and what I have for the last, coming up on 10 years now, is a brokerage that is a flat rate. So we've been rebating I don't even add it up but we've got to rebate it over millions of dollars so far in buyer broker fees and so we do a flat fee for both buyers, sellers and on a mortgage and that's a whole different story. But yeah, I'm all about the consumer, I'm all about the technology. We make life easier with our clients. Everybody's on Slack. But yeah, I'm all about the consumer, I'm all about the technology we make life easier with our clients. Everybody's on Slack, but I keep my eye out and I'm getting old and I bitch about everything because I can and we want this. We're just trying to help consumers know what the facts are, because whatever facts are these days, Well, depending on who puts the article out right, Even even like the commissions.
Wendy Gilch:There were three reports that came out about commissions post settlement, post August. Two of them were like, oh, commissions are coming down within the past two months. Look how much they've dropped. And then another one was like, Nope, commissions are all the same, Nothing's changed. And I was like how do you change the data that much to it's almost like they don't want the narrative to be one thing, so let's pull up the facts to make it look like it's not. So yeah, I mean, it's super important. How do you get an unbiased recap? Or how do you understand what to do, Because your information coming at you depends on, like, what that person wants to sell you?
Fred Glick:And here's the biggest problem and I've literally heard this because I have my people actually go and pretend they're buyers or sellers and talk to other agencies, do it all the time, just to see what's going on and just to see what their words are. So for a prospective seller we keep hearing no one's going to show your house unless you pay 2.5% buyer broker fee. Nobody's going to show it, which is incredible, because what do people do? You go to Zillow, you go to Redfin, you look at the open house. You go to the open house. What did you need an agent to tell you about a house? They're still living in 1995 when we used to have a book that came out once a week and we were the guardians of the listings until the newspapers came out on Sunday and listed the open houses. It's not like that anymore. Buyers are smarter. Buyers are getting pre-approved before they go see a house Maybe not fully underwritten, but at least they're getting prepared. So the agent doesn't even need to tell you that.
Fred Glick:My other thing about this is not about commissions, but I love to throw this out. They also tell sellers you need a local agent. Without a local agent you're not going to be able to sell the property, which is crap. What are they going to tell you when the coffee shop is? It's called Google. They've been replaced by Google and Redfin and Zillow. They all complain about Zillow, but you know what? Like the line in the Facebook movie if you would have thought of Facebook, you would have done Facebook, or whatever that line is. So they didn't do it and they got Realtorcom. And Realtorcom is amazing. There's a lifetime agreement between Move or whoever owns it now, and the Realtors?
Fred Glick:News Corp. They own it. It's in perpetuity, although it can be renewed every 10 years or something, but that's just the checkup on thing, it's a lifetime thing. We get leads, sometimes something, but that's just the check up on thing, it's a lifetime thing. Sometimes, from that, that site, this is the best, and they said review us on google plus, which hasn't been around for five years. So it's like it's like the junior varsity, it's just they don't get it. I can't even remember the question that you asked now, but see, this is what happens.
Wendy Gilch:This is why email is so good for us because we stay on task, because once we start, talking boom, boom, boom, boom boom.
Wendy Gilch:But yeah, I think it's funny to go back to that If you don't offer, no one will show your home. I can't tell you how many times people are like that doesn't happen. That's not true. And I'm like yes, it does. And that's people saying. Stuff like that is what's going to get the DOJ to finally be like all right, forget it. Nobody can pay the other side. Just negotiate it between each other, because nobody seems to want to be able to do it the right way.
Fred Glick:Here's what's going on you mentioned, with the new government taking place on January 20th. Let's all remember this Real estate licenses are not national, they're by state. So you're going to see the states let's call them the blue states for fun who have their departments of real estate or whatever regulating things. They have state laws that everybody has to follow. You got to pass a state test. Yeah, there's a federal part of it, but everything is regulated by the state. So the states need to get nasty about this. There's some states where dual agency isn't allowed. There's some states where no one other than a licensed person can receive any part of commission. So, like in Oregon, I can't give a rebate to a buyer. So I think it's going to be more on the states to do this, and we'll see how they do it.
Wendy Gilch:Yeah, but the problem is, the state commission boards are mostly realtors.
Fred Glick:I was just going to mention that, yeah.
Wendy Gilch:So it's like regulating they also lobby.
Fred Glick:You know they still have PAC money on the state level. Oh yeah, Not as many realtors, but there's plenty.
Wendy Gilch:Which the PAC money on the state level. So their contributions to political groups or political people is harder to figure out on the state level than it is like what NAR contributes to is harder to figure out on the state level than it is like what NAR contributes to. And I know, like Doug Miller has been talking about that, like he'd love to be able to dig in and figure out where these state associations are contributing money to. But you know God, this is on my list to the DOJ. We're going to. Okay, let's pause, because there's so many things and I could go down the rabbit hole of the department.
Fred Glick:You're in charge, Wendy. You're in charge.
Wendy Gilch:I know, but I just oh, there's so much to talk about and it's rare, like normally, when I talk to people, it's like a real estate agent or a mortgage lender, so like you have your hands on all the things, so you kind of see everything. So that's why I'm excited about this. But, all right. So you mentioned dual agency and I think that is the first one I want to talk about, because you and I were just talking about this. There is a lawsuit in New York State that has been around since 2018 that hasn't really gotten enough publicity, in my opinion. Like not many people were talking about it, and I think, now that the dust has settled on the antitrust lawsuit, this class action lawsuit might get more attention, and it is in New York State versus Holyhand Lawrence in Connecticut and New York. They have like 1300 agents. So they did at the time and this lawsuit is claiming they did 10,000 dual agency transactions in seven years. So they were representing the seller and buyer and I use the word represent loosely, because in dual agency, you're really not representing anybody.
Wendy Gilch:But I wanted to read one of the things that came from this lawsuit because it's going to be interesting to connect it to another thing we're going to talk about, which is pocket listings, and in this lawsuit there's different quotes from people. One was Pamela Goldstein. She's one of the head people on the plaintiff's side Claims in dual agency. She was pressured to ignore problems identified in an inspection report and to pay $37,000 more than the initial asking price in 2017 when she bought a home for $637,000. Ellen and Tony claim that Holyhand Lawrence failed to publicly list their White Plains home of their deceased mother in 2014. Instead marketing it internally to its agents, the house sold for $479,000, well below the sale price of comparable properties. And another person who was a buyer says that the $1.6 million he paid in 2016 for a house in Bedford was $125,000 above list price. All of those people use the same broker on the buy side and the sell side. I don't know how, in seven years, someone has 10,000 dual agency transactions. I did the math on that. What would that be 10,000?
Fred Glick:I'm going to divide it by the number. 20% of the agents are active. Probably did mess with the deals too. That's what makes an amazing number.
Wendy Gilch:Right. So quick math 10,000 dual agency transactions in about seven years would be a little over 1,400 dual agency transactions a year for a brokerage that has about 1,300 agents, which seems like huge to me. But I know, with all these lawsuits that have come and gone for antitrust, a lot of people are saying dual agency is going to be on the rise and I don't think any of them are paying attention to this lawsuit. Agency is going to be on the rise and I don't think any of them are paying attention to this lawsuit. So, in your opinion, what do you think sellers and buyers should know about dual agency?
Fred Glick:Would you have a lawyer prosecute and defend you at the same time? Right, that's exactly what dual agency is. The agent has zero loyalty, only to money. That's pretty much it. Yes, there have been dual agent deals over the years where you've had reputable people who've actually done it.
Fred Glick:If someone approaches us like this for a dual agency situation where we have the seller and there's no one represented the buyer, where we have the seller and there's no one represented the buyer, we tell them we beg the buyer to go get representation, or we do a non-representation agreement. We don't represent the buyer. He's making his own decisions. That's the easy way to figure this out. But dual agency means you go into an open house. Let's say you say I don't own this house and the agent says, oh, I don't own this house, and the agent says, oh, I'll be happy to represent you. And they end up writing the contract. The agent negotiates with the seller, negotiates with the buyer and the deal goes through.
Fred Glick:But you have no idea what happens. You're not privy to the conversation between the seller and the agent, except if you're on television. So I want to bring this up because now I'm remembering this. There are these guys that are on television and have some fancy show in Los Angeles. We probably all know who it is. I've barely ever seen these things and it was like accidentally it was on and I was watching the guy literally talking to the buyer on the phone and then literally lying to the seller and then going back and lying to the buyer. All he was doing was lying to try to get the deal done. And guess what? This broker makes both sides of the commission. So remember the commission structure. An agency charges you to list the room and then we've had all this stuff with the buyer broker fee that you probably don't know about. So this was all before the lawsuit, but I'm sure they're doing the same thing.
Wendy Gilch:See, I couldn't open the article that you sent me about these people. I don't want to use their name because I don't want to go too far.
Fred Glick:Use their name because I don't go too far, but like oh, I'll use it. It's the altman brothers.
Wendy Gilch:Okay. So the altman, how do you lie to your clients on national tv and like are they claiming they're innocent? Please tell me they're saying they didn't do anything wrong. I'm sure they. That's like the mo for everybody, of course not it wasn't lying, it was just, uh, salesmanship oh, it's all disclosed.
Fred Glick:I I felt like it's all the disclosures.
Wendy Gilch:Here's what I wonder like and you see these in the lawsuits. Something might be disclosed on paper, but I think it's how the agent or the broker is explaining something is what's getting people in trouble? Right Cause, that whole hand, lawrence. They're like we did nothing wrong. Everything was disclosed, but like all the people in this lawsuit were like I didn't know that they weren't representing me anymore, or like I had no idea that not listing my home on the market would have probably made me a lot more money. They just told me here's a good deal, you should take it, and it was inside within the brokerage.
Fred Glick:So I think consumers have to be really careful, like getting an explanation as to why you're being advised to do something a certain way. It's like you or me going and walking into a company and saying, all of a sudden, you know what, you're now a chemical engineer, we want you to develop this product. And you and I are like hoppity, hoppity, hoppity, hoppity. We don't know what we're doing. But people, for some reason they jump into real estate. They've never bought a house before, but they know everything. They've read everything, they chat, gpt'd everything. I have buyers. Sometimes they go right to the listing agent oh I, to get a worse deal because they're laughing at you internally, because they know exactly how to manipulate you. So you've got to go to a buyer broker who knows what they're doing and you've got to feel really comfortable with them and you've got to understand the words that they're saying. Ask questions. Hopefully they say the words transparency, full disclosure, happy to review anything with you.
Fred Glick:And here's a little tip throw things in any forms, you get anything. Throw it into chat, gpt and basically say hey, can you explain this in plain English to someone who's not in the real estate business? What am I signing? What are they asking for? It'll tell you, because what happens is you're going to get listing agreements. You're going to get buyer broker agreements that are going to be written by the agency and there's all kinds of. They got a 17 page one and there's all kinds of little things buried in there. You don't know what they are, you have no idea. So do that, throw it into AI, because that's going to help you a lot, but you know or get an attorney, I mean.
Fred Glick:I mean, I mean, we have a guy who's as his license and is an attorney his full-time attorney really with a license, and so when we have issues, we have questions, we send it over to him. Yeah, I paid for it, Because it's totally worth it to get the right answers. The real estate business is divided into two sets of people People who like to sleep at night and people who are taking Ambien.
Wendy Gilch:Yep, yep, oh, this stupid industry. So, going back to dual agency, I think you know, as a buyer, where you might run into this is if you start off being unrepresented and like you're asking, you're going to an open house, right? Or you are having the listing agent show you a home. If they're coming up to you saying, hey, like I can, you know, represent you and the seller, you know I'll cut my commission a little bit if we can get this deal done. Once you agree to dual agency, like you can't just like change your mind. You know what I mean. Like you're too far down the rabbit hole to be like, oh wait, I do want my own representation now because you've already signed stuff. I disagree, you can fire them.
Wendy Gilch:You can fire them but they already know all your cards right. They know what you can afford, they know all that stuff. And so then if you back out a dual agency, they have all the dirt on you. They still know Well here's the thing.
Fred Glick:Here's the thing. This is what I tell all my clients. I said we're going to get you a fully underwritten mortgage pre-approval, and I can't stress that more. Don't just get a regular approval, because the lenders have no idea about negotiating real estate.
Wendy Gilch:It's a piece of paper.
Fred Glick:Exactly, it's toilet paper. So if you get the fully underwritten mortgage pre-approval, I tell you to get it for the absolute maximum you qualify for. So if you're looking at a $700,000 house but you can afford a million, to get that a million to approval. Why? Because with the right agent it's not about hey, they qualify for more, so let's jack them up in price. It's no, you get yourself an agent who will just say that's all we're paying. See you later. Learn how to ghost people. There's little nuances with having a buyer broker who understands psychology and understands the other. Agents are all basically trained the same. They all go to Tom Ferry seminars.
Wendy Gilch:All the same scripts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Fred Glick:All the same scripts. I love when I get a buyer who says, hey, I love using you guys, because I talked to five agents and three of them told me the exact same thing, literally the same lines. So that's all they have to show their value, whatever it is, but yeah, you just get a good negotiator for it. It's like getting a good lawyer if you have to go to court, I mean you get out of these contracts. Contracts were persuaded. They didn't explain dual agency and the negatives of dual agency to you. You can absolutely positively get out of the contract. So, like the movie, get out.
Wendy Gilch:Yeah, they're still going to know all your stuff, though that's the crappy part.
Fred Glick:The right agent can get around that True.
Fred Glick:The other thing I tell people when you go to an open house, go there the one you love the most, go on the. I tell people, when you go to an open house, go there the one you love the most. Go on the very first day, at the very first minute. If there's a hundred people there, you know it's going to go crazy. It's like we had one in Mountain View it's a grandma house for listed a million. Nine went for over 3 million. It's insanity. But also, go there and just act disinterested. Don't let them remember you, especially if there's not a lot of people there, because these agents I mean we get these texts and emails. Oh, your client came on Tuesday and do you have any questions? Well, if we had questions, we would have asked you.
Wendy Gilch:We would have, yeah, yeah.
Fred Glick:It's like we never respond to them. So they look like, oh, you know they probably left and then we come in with an offer. When we come in, we stay on your side of the fence, Right, but that never helped. Following up like that never helped make a sale, so I can't even remember where we're at. Again, we went down this rabbit hole again.
Wendy Gilch:Because I gave you like seven things I wanted to talk about and we covered six of them briefly already. Okay, so dual agency, don't do it. I mean don't, it's not worth it. I mean, in the list of your three choices to be represented, be unrepresented or use dual agency dual agency would be on the bottom of my list here.
Fred Glick:Yeah of my list here. Yeah, let's, let's jump right in right now, because this ties together with these companies that want to have their own listings yes pocket listing one in particular preferred listings or something crap like that right, which was which was addressed in this uh hoolahan goldstein lawsuit.
Wendy Gilch:Um, specifically from what I read earlier about the couple that ended up selling their house internally wasn't even listed on the market, and then they're like, wait a minute, like we lost out on a ton of equity and that probably wasn't explained to them. Um, so there is one brokerage in particular who believes they should. They claim that making sellers list their home on the MLS and publicly is harmful to them, but the reality is, on the earnings calls of this big brokerage, they want to build a website bigger and better than anyone else, that has more properties available that you can't find anywhere else. So they basically want to use your listing to bait in more clients, and it's not about your home seller rights. It's really about them making more money.
Fred Glick:In my opinion, I'm sure.
Wendy Gilch:I mean I said it on stage at PMLS.
Fred Glick:I mean if they're mad at me for it, it's Compass, yeah, yes.
Fred Glick:Okay, they are just trying to be the dual agency kings. There's a company in San Francisco called Vanguard. I knew somebody who went there for a few weeks and she said the biggest thing was they were pushing dual agency at every sales meeting. Let's do this, let's do it off market. And I also get all these emails from these developers hey, I'm looking for a property that's off market and I'll pay you an extra 1%. It's like no, why would? If I had a property that was about to list, why would I just give it to you as a developer? There's 50 developers out there.
Wendy Gilch:Okay.
Fred Glick:You're not the only dude dude, but compass is trying to do this. They're trying to recruit they just bought corcoran oh property, something I don't know another 50 000 agents. But they want to build this network, so they're going to advertise. I guess that this is the only place to really find houses and you're going to find special deals here and you have to sign up to be able to get access through an agent. I mean no, no, why do you think Zillow was so popular and Trulia? Because they opened everything up. You didn't need to go to an agent anymore.
Fred Glick:So they're reverting back to 1950s way of doing it vis-a-vis the internet and they think they're going to recruit agents because of it. And they're also out there saying, oh, we have to pay more as a listing agent now because it's harder and we have to do more. Stop, stop, stop. There's that group and here's where I feel bad for sellers, because they're usually older and they're not kind of tuned in to everything that's going on, and I would advise their kids to start saying Mom, dad, no, get them involved in the house sale and let them do some research and search out the right people and don't sell it just to the first person that shows up before you put it listed. Oh, I have this great buyer and they're fully underwritten and approved and they close in 15 days. It all sounds great, but they're going to pay a hundred grand less.
Wendy Gilch:Howard Hanna in my area has their own little exclusives I don't know what they call it and a friend of mine interviewed to be one of their office managers and she said listen, the one thing that I'm not comfortable with is your exclusive program, because you guys really push that. And he said well, really, what's the hurt? The seller doesn't have to really deal with putting their home on the market and they get a good deal out of it. And the buyer gets a good deal and everybody wins. And I was like she's like no, that's no.
Wendy Gilch:No, no, no no no, like, maybe that's what you're explaining to a loan seller.
Fred Glick:It's fast and easy for them.
Wendy Gilch:Right and this was like this was about a year or so ago when, like in our markets still not not tanking out yet, and it was like pretty popular still when this conversation happened and I'm like, are you, are they even explaining to sellers Like you're missing out on a whole bunch of buyers and they're just making it sound so good?
Wendy Gilch:So I think about this Holy Hand Lawrence lawsuit and specifically how this home seller was like they didn't explain it to me, like they had me sell within the brokerage. I shouldn't say they had me. They were encouraged to sell within the brokerage and not list the home. And it's funny because these people that are so high on pocket listings and you know I don't want to see a damn word out of their mouth about how these lawsuits are horrible for homebuyers, because pocket listings are just as detrimental for homebuyers, especially in areas that maybe are of a certain demographic, and pocket listings occur that really can leave out people of other demographics. So so you don't get like a hall pass here Like if you're going to promote pocket listings, that's just as bad as anything you're saying about any NAR settlement and you're you're making it worse pretty much.
Fred Glick:Well, I think they're going to be very quiet, very quiet, because there's nothing they can do, so they'll just keep pounding the individual owners and the older owners and send them stuff and call them. Can we stop door knocking and phone calling please?
Wendy Gilch:Who answered the door for people that they don't, which, oh Jesus, do I need to share this? Speaking of door knocking, there's a Reddit subgroup. I think it was on Reddit or was it a Facebook.
Wendy Gilch:I think it was a Facebook group and they were talking about door knocking and this lady said I got myself one of these like motorized scooters you know, so I don't have to do all the walking, but it makes me look so much less threatening when I ring the doorbell on my scooter and two other people were like, oh, can you send me the scooter? And I was like, are you kidding me? Are we going to fake a disability so that someone will answer the door for you, like what? I don't know who answers the door anyways, but whether you're on a scooter or you're standing there, I'm not going to answer the door for you, or I'll talk to you through my ring doorbell and tell you to go away.
Fred Glick:It's the mid it's the mid 2020s. Do not answer the door at all, unless you know, who. It is Period Done. End of sentence.
Wendy Gilch:Not doing it.
Fred Glick:And get yourself on the do not call list, although they ignore that.
Wendy Gilch:Oh yeah, the do not call list and the. You know, damn it, we're so off track. But the do not call list. There's a couple states that have their own as well, and if someone keeps bothering you, it's easier to report people and get them in trouble through the state than it is the national registry. But it's also worth saying that opt out pre-screen is very good for buyers and do it like a month in advance they say a week, but apparently that's not enough so that the credit bureaus cannot sell your information when you're applying for a mortgage, because they will literally see that you're applying for a mortgage turnaround and sell your data to like multiple, multiple lenders and you will get calls all day long for three days straight and then weeks on end, people will be calling you and some of them pretend that they are with your mortgage lender and they're not, and there was supposed to be something passed to block them. They're called trigger leads which, as I read most recently, it's not going to go through. So opt out pre-screen, do not call list, do not answer your door Damn it. We were talking about dual agency. Look at us, we're so off track, that's okay.
Wendy Gilch:Oh, pocket listings. We're talking about pocket listings, yes. So let's talk about this from a buyer. If someone is telling you they have access to more properties than anyone else, call their bluff and ask them to prove it. Show me, show me before I sign with you. Show me the properties that you quote unquote have access to. That I'm I can't see unless I work with you. Number two if you are being pushed to do a pocket listing as a seller, you are not going to have that many buyers see your home. You might get pushed into dual agency. Unless you have some sort of privacy issue, I don't think it's worth it. Yeah, I mean here's an example.
Fred Glick:It's just one of many, but we had a client last week. We made an offer on a property in Washington state. It wasn't an offer date, it was just offers as they come. We made an offer. The seller made a ridiculous counter. They wanted two-day inspections and all kinds of stuff. So we just ghosted them and the agent comes back to me like two weeks later says, like well, are your people still interested? Ok, so we submitted the same contract. We submitted guess what? We got it for the lower price. We got five days for the inspection period. We had some other things we didn't want to do. We said this is it as is offer, take it or leave it.
Fred Glick:Well, you don't have that situation in a pocket listing, because they're already trying to pump you, even if it's the same brokerage and not the same broker. Within the company. They're colluding, they're conspiring and they know where they want to get it. And they just want to make it easy. They want to make easy money. And remember this everybody, every buyer, before they become a buyer, should go and interview to become a real estate agent. Okay, this is a new one. I just thought of this. This is great. So you can see, the first thing they're going to talk about is how much money you can make. So you know, at that point, do not use this brokerage, because it's all about the money, it's not about the transparency, it's not about helping people.
Wendy Gilch:Are you saying, buyers should ask that question?
Fred Glick:Like oh, what's it like being a real estate agent? I was thinking about doing it. The answer will be you should, I'll help you. Yeah, exactly, but it'll take. Oh, you can make so much money. There's 1.5 million realtors.
Wendy Gilch:What's one more? No problem, come aboard, come join us, please. Okay, so going back real quick. When we talked about pocket listings from a buyer's perspective, I had an ex-Compass agent tell me there was a property in his area that was being pushed through their exclusives and by the time it was listed there was like $150,000 difference in $150,000 less when it was listed than what it was being pushed at behind the scenes, which goes along with that lawsuit that I read before. You know the sellers were upset because they didn't realize that it sold for way less. But there was also a buyer on that, Houlihan Lawrence, that was quoted as saying they ended up paying like $125,000 more than what other homes were going for because they bought it through the brokerage before it was listed.
Fred Glick:Okay, here's an interesting thing. Let's bring this up. So people are aware. So it sounds like I don't know in that situation if they went for a mortgage, but if they did, what happens with the mortgage? And the appraiser is the lender has this black cloud of a system you allegedly go through. I know you have a whole issue with this.
Wendy Gilch:Okay, the AMC.
Fred Glick:Oh yes, the AMC. So it goes blindly through the AMC Kind of.
Fred Glick:Kind of, because you can set up your own little system and it's given out to Joe Schmoe, the appraisal. Joe Schmoe then gets the appraisal order and gets a copy of the agreement of sale and this has been through the Appraisal Institute and their grade group and they won't renege from it. Because they say, well, we need to know if there's any concessions, there's any repairs, but they know the price. So guess what? The appraisals normally come in at the sale price. Surprise, surprise, surprise. And when you go to refinance the appraiser knows what you or the loan officer has put down as the value. So that's the number you need. So the problem is appraisals can be swayed. They are not a definitive number based on facts. Only there's opinion into the value.
Wendy Gilch:And there's pressure for people that go through some of these AMCs to hit the number and not cause problems because they get a report card, the number, and not cause problems because they get a report card.
Fred Glick:This was the problem back in 2008. And, by the way, let me just say this, everybody knows this the appraisal problem was part of the issue with the 1% mortgages and I still don't understand how Alan Greenspan didn't understand what the cost of funds index mortgage that was a negative amortization, that was 115% cap was going to be a freaking nightmare within a year or two. Alan Greenspan and whatever the guy was after him they didn't realize this. That caused the crash. Okay, so with the appraisal thing, they would get to the number. And the AMCs were developed by the attorney general of the state of New York at the time, mr Cuomo, and Mr Cuomo pushed this and he complained about mortgage brokers. Well, the fact was, this wasn't a mortgage brokerage outfit that was doing this, was Washington Mutual Savings Bank. It was a bank and these loan officers were pressuring them. But the reason that Cuomo wanted the AMCs created is because his wife owned an AMC.
Wendy Gilch:Shocking.
Fred Glick:Shocking, shocking. And so this AMC thing was developed and also, at the time, candidate and then President Obama was talking about and bitching about the mortgage brokers and I was one of three people who actually met with the White House and said you got to stop calling it mortgage brokers, change the word to mortgage originators, because these guys were from the banks and the banks had no licensing, nothing. They just hired any schmo off the street. And we actually got it changed and changed for the 2010 state of the union address. So that's the one great thing that.
Fred Glick:I've done in the government is change one word in the state of the union.
Wendy Gilch:So how many years did that take? How many?
Fred Glick:years did that take A year of meetings, but they understood it. The guys who were in there and his I don't even know what position they were in, I guess assistant chief of staff or associate chief of staff those guys, those are the people that really run the country.
Wendy Gilch:So, josh Lyman, if you want to give the West Wing reference, that kind of level, Well, you know, what's interesting, too, is I'm going to go off track, but you talked about people getting their loan officer license. I can't tell you, at the end of last year, how many agents told me that they were being recruited by mortgage companies to get their 20 20 hour loan officer license so that they can refer their clients to this mortgage company and get paid for it without, without violating. Respa. Yeah, we even have both full disclosure.
Wendy Gilch:I have both licenses but here's the thing about you because, because I'm not a fan of that, but I looked you up and of all the buyers that you work with, I think like 25% of them ended up closing with you. Yeah, I look at if you have this. If more than half of your buyers are continuing to use you, that's my concern. Like, if you're still encouraging people, I can help you. If not, shop around, that's something different to me. But if you have a real estate agent who is not making a ton of money and they need to make some money this month, like are they going to be pressuring their client? Hey, I also work for this bank, let me help you. And literally all they're doing is having them fill out something from a link and that's it. Like that's the purpose of all these new agreements, which is bullshit.
Fred Glick:Let me. Let me talk this out a little bit. So the story is like if you want to apply for a mortgage with me, I just send it to the website. You do the application. Myself and my processor, who's also licensed, review the application, make sure everything's great. We throw it, we run the credit, we throw it into the Fannie Mae computer. We get it approved. You send in all your documents.
Fred Glick:Jen does a great job doing this looks at everything, sends it into the lender and it's done. The rates are there, live. You can pick the rates and say, hey, I want to block this, and it's really that simple. So it's not as crazy and it's not as deep as it used to be. I mean, I literally would go out to people's houses and fill out 20 forms with them and sit there and explain it, but the estimate of closing costs, it's pretty much all automated. But here's the thing this test is not easy. It's not like the real estate agent test, where there's barely any math. There's math on this, there's federal regulations. You got to know, and I would guess I don't know to know, yeah, and I would guess I don't know. Eight out of ten agents can't, can't pass this test nowhere close to it. So and banks will not just hire real estate agents.
Wendy Gilch:They can't well, they don't think these are banks.
Wendy Gilch:They're, they're um yeah these are we called one of them lenders I forget, uh, I forget their name, but we have a real estate agent that I really like called him and recorded it and basically I was like ask him these questions and she's like, well, listen, like I'm busy, I don't really have a lot of work to do, you know, but I'm interested in this and he's like all you need to do is have him fill out a link and we'll pay you. You know, this is just a way to skirt RESPA and you'll get paid. You don't have to do anything else, don't worry about it. And I was like, oh my god, like, and I sent that to the cfpb. I was like, hey, you need to know, this is on the rise, like you should be aware of this. And of course they don't get back to me because of course, you and the attorney's a little busy too.
Wendy Gilch:I mean, I know they're all busy, I know, but my damn it. I send you stuff all the time.
Fred Glick:Could you just respond once would be amazing, but I, I don't need a meeting with cfpb I just like a, I mean if they still do this, because elon's trying to get rid of them, of course right, right, which I damn it here.
Wendy Gilch:I'm gonna get off track again the whole cfpb thing. There was a whole thing on joe rogan right about how people are getting debanked. But if you listen to it he said it was like 30 people within the past four years mostly involved in crypto. And I'm not saying this can't happen, like maybe it did. But like he went on to say there's no proof, like we can't prove it. But if we trace the phone calls we know it was the CFPB. But like I'm sure to a degree banks are scared about liability of having a crypto founder running all their money through their bank. Like I'm sure there's a degree to part of that. But what I also want to say is that that same guy that was on Joe Rogan bashing the CFPB more at least one of his companies got in trouble with the CFPB for misleading consumers with false advertising and taking advantage of consumers, so Stalking.
Fred Glick:Yeah, and the political spin comes out to go the other way, right, yeah.
Wendy Gilch:Yeah, that comes out and then all of a sudden everyone's like you should defund the CFPB and I'm like you don't understand. An individual trying to take on JP Morgan, trying to take on a giant, well-funded company, will never win. That's part of the CFPB is to stand up for those individual people or individual groups, to stand up for them against these giant ass companies that have more money than God and will drag you through the court system until you have no more money left and nothing will get accomplished. Like their whole point is to help protect consumers and they're getting totally bashed and it really bothers me. So I just wanted to make that clear.
Wendy Gilch:I don't know, I can't speak to the debanking, but I can speak to the fact that most of the people bashing them have had ties to companies that have gotten in trouble by the CFPB and it seems a little more personal. I'm sorry, that's my rant, end rant. End rant because I Agreed. I see it on Twitter and I'm like I really don't like your ex. I really don't like ex. I'm not on there a lot. I feel like it's very bro finance culture and all weekend long I was like man, I really want to post about the CFPB. Go on Blue Sky. You post about the CFPB, go on Blue Sky. You know what? I just made an account there. I have no idea if I'm going to stay there, but yeah, it seems a little more healthy there.
Fred Glick:Yeah.
Wendy Gilch:Yeah, there's less bro finance culture, but anyway. So that was my little rant on the CFPB. So we talked about dual agency pocket listings. I want to go to agreements, because if there's one thing that I think has improved post-lawsuit, it was the buyer agreements that have been shoved in consumers' faces, not necessarily how or when they have to sign one, but the actual meat of these agreements, pre-lawsuit, were like atrocious. Some of them are still pretty awful, but I don't think anything would have changed with those agreements if it wasn't for this lawsuit. What are your two cents?
Fred Glick:Well, I'll start in California, where I do most of my business. So the agreement that they had pre-lawsuit said you know either non-exclusive or exclusive. They had two separate forms. That's a big thing. You don't want to go out on your first date and get married that night. That's when an exclusive agreement is. Don't ever sign an exclusive agreement. Period done, end of sentence. There's no reason to so. With the non-exclusive agreement it says you know the amount of compensation and we put our fixed fee. And it also says that if there was any, other.
Wendy Gilch:Go back one second. When you say a fixed fee, it's your flat fee, because I saw someone come after you like.
Wendy Gilch:Well, you're not negotiable and it's like good Lord I need to explain this when you see commissions are negotiable in your agreement because legally they have to put it there. The reason that is in there is more for at least on the listing side, because agents were telling home sellers what they need to be offering to the other side. Companies are allowed to have a set price for their specific company. The lawsuits were more about these companies telling their clients what they should be paying their competitor and if they don't, no one will see your home. And that's how everyone ended up making the same almost for buy-side commission being offered.
Fred Glick:In.
Wendy Gilch:Minnesota. It's like 2.7% was like 90, some percent of the properties we're offering. So it's stupid, but anyways, go ahead.
Fred Glick:A conspiracy, anyway. Yeah, so we have our flat fixed fee, whatever you want to call it, and that's what we charge everybody and we have it as based on the price ranges that we're in. We think it's ridiculously fair price for what we give. And there's agents out there who tell you they're at 3%, but then people try to get them down to 2.5% or 2% or whatever. Yeah, that's negotiable and you can try, but there are still brokerages that have minimum commissions of 2.5% of the sale price, which is insane. So back to what we were talking about the agreement itself. It's got the fixed fee, but it also allows in the old agreement for any rebates of any excessive buyer broker fee over that $97.50. In the new agreement there's not a single mention of it, right?
Wendy Gilch:So I'm still using the old agreement On the listing side, though on the listing side didn't they remove buyer broker offers of compensation right.
Fred Glick:On California.
Wendy Gilch:Yeah, so if you're listing your home, they actually don't have. You put a number on a form.
Fred Glick:But I would. I am sure there are companies out there with oh sure they are.
Wendy Gilch:There absolutely are but that's you know, and I think that's interesting because I actually I'm putting something out this week about buyer rebates and how, like there were nine states that did not allow buyer rebates right. So like, if someone's putting out $35,000 in commission and you charge nine something, you were able to rebate the buyer in closing costs or however you did it, that difference right, but in nine states that was deemed illegal for whatever stupid lobbying reasons possible. And so at least with this new settlement, buyers in those nine states might actually have a chance to actually negotiate commissions, because most of the agreements pre-lawsuit were like, hey, I expect to make up to 3% or 3%, but if I'm offered more than that, I get to keep that too. Like that was the standard language in these agreements, was what I want to make, and if there's bonuses, I get that too. Like there's no like conversation about it, it's just I'm keeping it.
Fred Glick:Here's one of the great things we're able to do for our clients. So you know we're dealing in million, $2 million houses. So let's say we've got a $2 million house and there's 10 offers and all 10 offers are for $2 million, but every. And there's 10 offers and all 10 offers are for $2 million, but every nine out of the 10 are asking for two and a half percent buyer broker fee, even though and it's because it's being offered Okay, but what we say is a buyer pay us the 9750 and let's not take a dime of the buyer broker fee. So now you're ahead by $50,000 and guess who wins the agreement we do. And here's another thing on top of that, we want the lower price because the real estate taxes get reassessed after every sale and they're based on the sale price basically. So you're saving that much money. And if we get into a situation where, in a separate situation where we're lowering the sale price by the buyer broker fee, you then have a lower sale price. You also have a lower mortgage amount, which means you pay a lot less interest. So I mean you can be saving hundreds of thousands of dollars by doing it this way.
Fred Glick:But no, they want to keep the status quo doing it this way. But no, they want to keep the status quo. They want to establish the fact that 2.5% is normal and that everybody's doing it and everybody charges the same. It's called a conspiracy, it's called price fixing. It is so illegal, but that's all they know. That's why you'll get these things of my worth and I'm able to do this and I can look at a disclosure and I can do. Everybody can do the same thing. You know there's nothing really different between brokerages on what you do within helping a client, yeah, Looking at it.
Wendy Gilch:I think what's hard too is, you know, and I get this all the time like you're bashing AIDS and share this and that, and I get this all the time like you're bashing AIDS and share this and that, and I'm like you know, the problem is there's very little training for some of these brokerages, even down to how they're handling the settlement. There are people that are talking about how their broker thinks the lawsuit was a bullshit thing and he's not showing homes unless he knows what commission is being offered up front, and so that's the broker. And this poor agent is like I know that's not right, but this guy, like is the biggest brokerage in my little city, Like what am I supposed to do? Like if I leave, he's like A, they're all mad at me because I'm trying to follow the settlement, and he thinks that's stupid. And follow the settlement and he thinks that's stupid.
Wendy Gilch:So I think it's hard because there are basically three groups of agents right now like brokers that A want to evolve and look at this settlement as a positive and make the changes. There's people that are like this settlement's bullshit, I can't believe I can't make bonuses anymore, this is awful. And then there's people who maybe just aren't being instructed correctly, Like, and they're not necessarily bad, but they're not being advised and they have no clue what they're doing and they're just kind of there.
Fred Glick:you know, yeah, I had this one agent. I've been in the business 15 years. Well, she sends me a contract that is so piss poor. I mean there's stuff missing.
Fred Glick:One of the big things that was missing is she checked she remembered to check off that attached is the buyer broker form, so the request for compensation and and her buyer's agreement showing what the buyer signed as his amount of compensation. It was blank. So it was like I would have loved to have gone to clothing with this woman and not paid her a dime. Well, your buyer broker thing is blank. We can't pay it.
Wendy Gilch:So they're stupid.
Fred Glick:You know what? And it's going back to when I said hey, go talk to Keller Williams or somebody about becoming an agent. And the other thing that people don't know is all these franchises having their contracts. You have to hire X number of people per quarter or you could lose your franchise. Well, that's why every somebody in the nail salon and your plumber, everybody's got a license, because getting a license is sort of kind of easy. And then they sit there. They're not trained, they don't know what to do, they don't care. These agents oh, I'm just showing you and I show my property and this is lovely, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And we're negotiating hard. It's like they're idiots. They're just idiots. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but I'm old, I got gray hair and it's just.
Fred Glick:I see it's so frustrating.
Wendy Gilch:But I think it's important that consumers understand that that, like there's certainly not everyone is created equal and not everyone is doing things what I think is the right way and what the DOJ and the lawsuit thinks is the right way, so, it's so important that you actually interview these people and ask the questions.
Wendy Gilch:And one of my favorite questions I think they should be asking is hey, what happens if the home isn't offering buyer compensation upfront? Because the answer should be we go look at the home anyways and we negotiate in the offer. Unfortunately, there are some brokerages that are putting it in their buyer agreements that we can just skip homes if we can't get an answer of commission up front. Like literally Unbelievable. And the agent that sent me this she's like well, it's approved by our state and it very clearly says in Section 21 in Colorado, anything listed in this section is not state approved. And then she's like oh well, I guess maybe Coldwell Banker must have added this.
Wendy Gilch:And I was like well, obviously, because if you didn't do it and the state didn't do it, your brokerage did so. Just be really careful, like what you're reading, what you're agreeing to and who you're working with, because there are some great people out there. There are some great people that have good strategies, that can like really negotiate and help you navigate this, but then there's people who just don't want anything to change and we'll eventually start you in the long run.
Fred Glick:There's a couple of things that I've told people. Number one when you're interviewing someone, say I'd like to see the last three offers that you made the first offer and I'd like to see a copy of those contracts to see if they know how to fill out the contract. The other thing is you want to ask them are you going to go around to open houses with us? And someone will say, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll be there all the time. That's the last agent you want, because they're just going to be with you all the time and all the push you and just they're there to just push you and push you.
Fred Glick:Like, our model is pretty simple you go out to open houses Great, we're not going to go with you. I mean it's silly, but if you're interested in something, we'll get deeply involved in the particular property you're really interested in. Either go see it or we can have a private showing, send an agent open the door. We do video chats with people and it works. It works fine because we're not, you know, just sniffing after you like a hound dog. So you got to understand the competency of these people that perform the actual duties and the fact that how do they actually work in their brokerage model of seeing houses? Cause that's really really, really important. You don't need these people to follow you around and show your houses. You know where the kitchen is, you know, and most of these houses are all pretty much generic and clean and whatever. And if there's problems, you're going to know in the disclosures, you're going to know in the inspections, and the professionals are the ones that have to deal with that kind of stuff, not the agent. Oh, don't worry about that.
Wendy Gilch:And I think that's kind of what maybe some agents are missing is like in today's world. It's not necessarily about you finding me the home. It's more about I like the home. What are we doing now Like? What's the strategy? How are we going to negotiate? What are the sales like around here? What are the comps? What do you think I should offer? How should we do this?
Fred Glick:And that's that's where you want someone strong in their assets, not someone that's more important to you and yeah, and like you really need I don't know.
Wendy Gilch:I feel like that's kind of some agents are missing that Like stop saying the old way of doing it Right.
Fred Glick:They don't know any different.
Wendy Gilch:It's the phrasing of like well, I'm bringing the buyer and it's like you're not bringing the buyer. Like you and the buyer have a working relationship. You and the seller do not. You and the listing agent do not. Like no, no, you're not working for any of them if you have an exclusive agreement with your buyer, so don't tell me you're bringing the buyer. Like you should be telling the buyer all the things you're gonna do for them. Don't be online saying I'm important because I'm bringing you the buyer. No, like you're representing them in a deal, you're not telling them which homes they should go to. You might be telling them which you're about to go to if you're having them sign some stupid clause in your agreement to skip homes based on commission, which like best of luck to you with the Department of Justice, because you know I sent that agreement over to them. They don't ever just like the CFPB. They don't respond to me, but I'm like you know they're doing this.
Fred Glick:By the way, I sent this. I questioned. I was on my MLS, that she was in and it was an online chat and I asked them hey, I have this situation, what do I do? They said, okay, email to find out what to do to compliance at. I've never heard back from compliance at yet, so they're not even policing it.
Wendy Gilch:Yeah, and that's so. We'll just. Let's just go to the DOJ, because that was my next list. So what I find really interesting is that, after this lawsuit, a lot of people are saying, well, with the new administration, the Department of Justice is going to get blown up and everything will go away, like Donald Trump is not going to reverse a settlement that was just approved by a judge. It's not going to happen. No, it's not.
Fred Glick:It's a private settlement that was just finally approved, judge, it's not going to happen.
Wendy Gilch:It can't. No, it's not. It's a private settlement that was just finally approved. Like it's not going to happen and it's state to state.
Fred Glick:It's by the states the licenses, not nationally.
Wendy Gilch:So the NAR settlement is done, right, like move on, it's happening, accepted change. But what I find interesting is these people hate the Department of Justice but do not realize that the Department of Justice and the National Association of Realtors have been battling for like longer than I have been alive and Rob Hahn has done some great articles about it that I can attach to this episode if people want to read it. So even if the administration changes like that doesn't make all of this go away and there is theories that the department of justice, whatever they could be working on, will likely make some noise before things change to at least get things moving. But like it doesn't go away. It might slow down for four years but it doesn't just go away.
Fred Glick:So one thing, one thing we forgot to talk about and we definitely wrote down, was the Batten lawsuit. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, all right.
Wendy Gilch:So the DOJ is not going away. They might slow down. Blah, blah, blah. Skip to the next one Lawsuits, lawsuits. So the Sitzer lawsuit was based on home sellers having to feel like they have to pay a certain amount that ended up being a certain amount for everybody, that everyone got paid the same, almost for the buy side commission. The Batten lawsuit is the reverse right. It's almost. It's the perspective of this lawsuit, but from the buyers. And it has been around for how long? I forget what year it came out.
Fred Glick:Yeah, it's a couple of years ago.
Wendy Gilch:It's been plugging along right I mean it's and I think people need to understand that too. These antitrust lawsuits are like five, six, seven year long battles. They're not something quick. So this one has been around for a while and you're probably more versed on the baton one than I am, so if you want to give a synopsis, Basically, it was buyers saying hey, you know, we were forced to pay these commissions that we didn't even know about.
Fred Glick:That was in the value of the house. So it used to be when you go and buy a house, hi, I'll be your agent. Oh, don't worry, the seller pays me. You know the line of don't worry, the seller pays me is the basis of the Batten lawsuit. So I paid. You ended up getting 3% of the sale price. Well, the seller paid it, which means the buyer paid it in the price of the house. So these people were forced to pay this without even knowing what they were paying. That's the whole thing of the Batten lawsuit and, believe me, when that comes down and the gold steam comes down, it's going to be a whole different world yeah, I.
Wendy Gilch:I just it'll be interesting though, because can you? Basically the sitzer one was saying the sellers were paying, but the baton one is saying the buyers were paying, so like there's two different theories.
Fred Glick:But the sellers were forced to offer I know the seller paid.
Wendy Gilch:It was built and forced to offer. This is you had.
Fred Glick:You had to pay this because it was buried into the price without your knowledge of what it was.
Wendy Gilch:It's interesting too, because people fight about this all the time who's really paying commissions? This might be stupid, but in my perspective it's like the chicken or the egg. You need the buyer's money to be able to pay for everybody which is financed, but then the seller's walking away with less equity from the deal because they had to pay out people. So technically like I could see both sides to this. I'm kind of just in the middle because I can see both perspectives, but I'm assuming the NAR settlement does not remove them from the Batten lawsuit.
Fred Glick:Nope, it's got nothing to do with it. So the bottom line is, when this all shakes down, I think what's going to happen is no more dual. What we kind of like to see is no more dual agency and you have a buyer broker, if you want one, and you're going to pay them a negotiated fee and you can bury that fee into the sale price by negotiating it with the seller. That's really it.
Wendy Gilch:It's that simple, but that's kind of what the department of justice wanted was like just let the negotiations happen between the seller and the buyer, um, and I think it's worth mentioning like there are some states that don't allow dual agency but like like Texas has like an intermediary status, which sounds pretty much Florida's got something like that.
Wendy Gilch:Florida's like that which I had asked yesterday. So Florida, you have a transactional agent or an exclusive agent. The exclusive one is supposed to have more fiduciary duty and like representing you, blah, blah blah, but for all these years it's kind of been transaction agents are the default. So have buyers and sellers been paying fiduciary level fees for transactional service all these years? That's probably a loaded question, but like so, now you know, is there no price difference between an exclusive agency agreement and a transactional agent?
Fred Glick:Yeah, so, like I don't know, it's crazy, I don't know.
Wendy Gilch:I just I've asked someone that yesterday and they're like, well, I don't really know if anyone really understands the difference and I'm like, well, I don't know, I would think someone. Yeah, difference. And I'm like, well, I don't know, I would think on purpose. Yeah, and I'm like, well, is everyone paying for these services they think they're getting, but they were actually getting something much less legally speaking right, and then they can go back to hey, we were just a transactional agent, we didn't right, right, but, but you were being paid regardless
Wendy Gilch:full service yeah, but you're being I don't know. I I just I know that consumer fed did a report on that a Like a full service. You're not as allowed. They just flipped it and it's like, well, there's designated agency or intermediary, or transactionary, and it's like that's still the broker's, still the person, the same person on each side Right right, but there's still issues with it.
Wendy Gilch:And it's funny there was only one agreement that I saw that our whole group saw, because there was a big group of us that were just like spending the past year looking at agreements, and it was I think it was New Mexico addressed dual agency and gave super clear options like hey, if dual agency arises and you don't want to participate, you can A walk away from this contract or, b have the broker assign you to a different broker for this offer or for this deal.
Fred Glick:So it's designated agency.
Wendy Gilch:Well, no, so it would be a different broker.
Fred Glick:That's what's called designated, I mean you just have two different people within one brokerage.
Wendy Gilch:No, no, no, this would be the broker. Like they would say you completely walk away from your contract with the broker and you work with a totally different broker. Oh, okay, so in New Mexico. So New Mexico is like you say, I'm working with Coldwell banker. Um, and I don't want to do dual agency. I can go leave that and go work with an EXP agent to get the deal done.
Wendy Gilch:If, if I want to make an offer on that house uh, they were the only ones I saw that even like gave some options to address it, because some of the other ones were like, hey, if you don't agree to dual, a designated agency, we just won't show you any homes that we have for a listing. And that's like, wait a minute, like you can't hold that against them if they want their own representation to say I'm not going to show you these homes, like it, just so. Hopefully, those are getting better in these agreements, but you've got to be careful. Dual agency those are getting better in these agreements, but you've got to be careful. Dual agency, designated intermediary transaction Like you really should know what you're signing up for and what does not become included with that service. Pretty much Okay.
Wendy Gilch:So let's wrap it up because we've been yapping for quite some time. So one thing that you think people should know going into 2025, besides dual agencies, garbage pocket listings aren't really a great benefit to consumers. Agreements have gotten better, but they could use some work. The Department of Justice is not disappearing. Hopefully the CFPB isn't, but if they could write me back to any of my emails, I'd appreciate it before they do, and there's more lawsuits in the pipeline that aren't going to go away. What did we miss?
Fred Glick:Just when you're interviewing agents I had mentioned this earlier ask them ridiculously detailed questions like show me the last three initial offers you made. Why are you worth this money? And if you hear the same thing that you heard from anybody else? And, by the way, go take a Tom Ferry course for a couple hundred dollars, you know?
Fred Glick:and you'll hear what they're going to say to you Because they got these coaches. Those are the people that are really dying because they don't know what to say, so they come up with hyperbole and fancy words of which most agents don't even know what they mean. So it's just be careful out there, kids. What a great way to end it.
Wendy Gilch:Best of luck to you.
Fred Glick:Best of luck.
Wendy Gilch:Don't get screwed over, please. Or if you're not sure if you are, you can reach out to us because we will tell you. I'll be happy to tell you.
Fred Glick:Wendy's not an agent. She has no skin in the game. I just sit on the outside as a consumer. Right, she's the greatest.
Wendy Gilch:I'm just hanging out in the consumer advocacy world, getting shitty emails from people that don't like what I say, and hanging out with consumers. It's been a good time. Have a story or a question.
