Leadership Lessons Most People Learn Too Late | Jim Tracy

What does real leadership look like when it’s tested over time—not just in moments, but across decades?

In this episode of The Magnificent One’s Podcast, I sit down with Jim Tracy to break down leadership, discipline, and the decisions that shape lasting culture. This is not about quick wins or surface-level success—it’s about building something that actually endures.

Jim shares what most leaders get wrong about culture, why trust is built through consistent action, and how small decisions—done repeatedly—create organizations people actually want to be part of.

We also explore the internal side of leadership: responsibility, emotional intelligence, and the discipline required to lead both people and yourself.

In this episode:

• What separates leaders who last from those who burn out
• How discipline shows up in everyday leadership decisions
• Why culture is built through actions—not slogans
• The role of trust, transparency, and consistency
• How leaders become bottlenecks without realizing it
• Practical ways to build stronger teams and relationships

If you’ve ever questioned your standards, your direction, or your ability to lead—this conversation will challenge how you think.

If this episode resonates, go listen to “This Too Shall Pass: Overcoming Adversity” for a deeper foundation.

Understanding systems. Building clarity. Becoming formidable.

"Follow the show so you never miss an episode."

The Fresh Patch Podcast - Where Good Pets Get It.

Welcome to the Fresh Patch Podcast where we talk about everything, from dog...

Listen on: Apple Podcasts  

Transcript

The Magnificent Ones: A Podcast for Clarity

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This is not a podcast for comfort. It's a podcast for clarity. In a culture flooded with noise, dangerous narratives, and emotional uncertainty, this space exists to examine what actually matters and what actually works. Here we question power itself, belief systems, and the assumptions most people inherit without inspection. Most people accept instead of dissect. This podcast is about correcting that. Welcome. Bienvenue, Velkomen, Bienvenidos to the Magnificent Ones podcast. There's something fascinating about longevity. Not just longevity measured in years, but longevity measured in trust, in leadership, and in the invisible structures that hold people together over time. Most organizations speak endlessly about culture, but very few truly understand how culture is built, and even fewer know how to sustain it across decades and generations. Leadership today often prioritizes speed, disruption, rapid growth, and yet leaders who leave the deepest impact are often the ones who understand something different. That meaningful cultures are not built quickly. They're built deliberately. They're built through relationships, they're built through conflict, through moments where leaders are forced to choose between authority and influence. Today's guests understand those dynamics deeply. Jim Tracy is a former CEO, an inductee into the Wireless Hall of Fame, a keynote speaker and a best-selling author. Over the course of his career, he has worked at the intersection of leadership, organizational culture, and generational collaboration. But perhaps one of the most compelling aspects of his story is something profoundly human. Jim has been married for 46 years and frequently helps generations learn how to work together rather than working against each other. In an era where leadership often focuses on short-term wins, Jim has offered perspective grounded in longevity, culture, and relationships that endure. Jim Tracy, with that, welcome to the Magnificent Ones podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Wow, I am so honored to be here. Thank you for asking. I'm just I'm touched.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

No, I I before I even ask my my my professional question, and this is gonna tie back into the podcast later on is I uh I personally believe that a true marker of success is the individual that is able to sustain their personal relationships and having those personal healthy relationships outside of work often mirrors what work looks like. So if they have a toxic relationship, sometimes they have a toxic work relationship. So if you've had 46 years of success in your marriage, I can confidently say that you've had 46 years of also professional success, probably even longer.

SPEAKER_00 3:09

You know, I would say that the the key to longevity is is is marry someone who's significantly better than you are. In every way. And and and then desperately work hard to try and hang on to it. But frankly, you know, our marriage would have probably been in tough shape had we not been, you know, five years in and come to faith. And so that's really at the center of not only who we are as a couple, but who we are as a family. So I don't get credit for that. Let's give God the credit. He deserves it.

Steve Jobs on the Culture of his Organization

SPEAKER_03 3:46

Absolutely, absolutely. That's actually something we'll touch on later on as well. And I would say, you know, leadership is one of those things that people constantly use, you know, everyone talks about what it means to be a good leader, but often, you know, people don't just define culture, that the culture that it takes to have, you know, an environment where people know how to connect with each other, people can actually communicate with it with each other. And having an environment where communication is key and people feel comfortable to even voice their concerns or opinions is important. Why do you think that a lot of leaders miss that component where they focus on maybe the operations, but not necessarily the culture or even know what culture is? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Well, you know, I've found over the years that I looked, and there's a popular saying that kind of supports this everybody, everybody wants to be a servant leader until someone treats them like a servant. And and I always made a practice out of being the first one at work, and I would make coffee for our people. And when there were dirty dishes, I made a point, even when we got to be a large organization, I made a point to be the one who took the coffee cup to the dishes from the day and stacked the dishwasher. And I didn't intentionally do it while people were watching, but I didn't shy away from it when people are watching either. And I even had people saying, Hey, I mean, I I I knew that I was slipping when people called me Mr. Tracy instead of Jim. So there was a Mr. Tracy, let me do that. And I'm like, no, man, I like this is, I mean, I like emptying garbages, and I like doing dishes, and I like sweeping floors, and I and I don't mind people seeing that because I don't want them to feel as though they can rise above that. We're all there to serve one another, and that kind of culture really does resonate with the people at the grassroots of any business. I remember when, I mean, there's a lot of people, rightfully so, because of his his uh presentation that that uh that uh are are very anti anti-president Trump. And and I'm I'm not a I'm not uh I'm not here to discuss politics, but I can tell you I think he won the election when he leaned out a window at McDonald's and served somebody a hamburger.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

No, listen, that that but that it but it works though, right? It it's you have to mirror the behaviors that you want.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

It's a classic, classic move. Everybody knows that he doesn't make a living at McDonald's, and everybody knows it was staged. But everybody also knows what it's like to drive up to that window and either get a burger out of it or or or hand a burger out to somebody. And so, and and that in large in large sense is really an important statement of of what kind of leader you're gonna be. What are you willing to do so that your people can relate to you? Not so you can relate to them, but so that they can relate to you.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

You know, that's that's the mistake that I've I made early on when I when I first got promoted was you you're happy and you're like, oh, I'm gonna change everything and I'm gonna push and I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna, you know, all of our KPIs and our sales goals, and you know, I'm gonna outperform everyone else, and you know, and it's like and that is the worst decision that I made because people were unhappy, you know, and I've learned I've since learned to slow down, you know, take the time to know, yeah, know the lay of the land, know my people, and and you know, just simple things. Know what's going on in their lives because if you treat people like a number, they'll respond to you to you as they're as a number as well, you know. And all but my my personal philosophy is that all business is personal because you're a person on the clock and you're a person off the clock as well.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

For sure, for sure. You know, there's a lot of old sayings, and and you know, it frankly, I've put together a new book that's coming out. It's called Management by Cliche. Well, some of those cliches are people don't care what you know until they know that you care. Yes. And and that is an oldie but a goodie. But the reason that it resonates with people is it's true. And and truth is more important than KPIs, if you will.

Leadership Is Complicated

SPEAKER_03 8:09

You know what I remember uh so you know, I I went through one day and I was talking to my boss and I was you know telling him this KPI story. It's like, oh, here's all the numbers, and you know, this is a sales projection, and this is we're gonna hit it this by this time, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And she said, slow down, slow down. Did you did you ask that person how they were doing today and this? And and I said, No, I said, good morning, and I and I got to work. And she's like, No, no, no, no, no. I said, I don't care about your paperwork, you know, go back and ask everyone how they're doing, like how they're really doing, and then we can talk. And so I'm happy that. Awesome advice. Mm-hmm. I am I'm happy I had those those moments. So I want to ask you something a little bit deeper. But because it we have such a plethora of knowledge, I have all these questions listed, and I'm so excited. I don't even know, even though they're sequential, I still don't know which one to ask for, you know, because I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

But the question is fire away, man.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Was there a specific moment in your career when you realized that leadership was far more than, you know, far more complete complicated than you originally thought it was before you entered into leadership?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Wow. I don't think that leadership is complicated. I never have. And I, you know, I I entered the business of wireless infrastructure with my son, who was then just turned 18 years old. And we had we went into the office of a very large multinational firm, and we sat at their table, and there were like 13 of them on their side of the table, and there were two of us, a father and son on our side of the table. And a lot of people in that room were trying to make a name for themselves. And there was one man on the on a younger fellow on the end of the table, and and he really wasn't in a position where he could challenge me. And we were looking to be a vendor, so I just wanted to be a nice guy, and and so, but he kind of took it on himself to to challenge my son. And and and that's when you learn to really shut up as a dad, too, because they got to carry their own weight. And anyway, he said, he said, you know, you have these crews that are going out, and you tell them that that uh the quality standards are this and that. And he says, How do you get them to do that? And he said, Well, you know, we we we tell them that they a requirement to work for legacies is that they do the right thing. So we tell them to do the right thing. And that wasn't good enough for him. And he said, Well, wow, you know, what happens when they don't know what the right thing is? And Ryan is a pretty quick study, and he says, Well, we we we instruct them specifically then to do the best right thing. And this irritated the young man, and he came back, and so he doubled down against a pretty smart individual, and he said, Well, what if they don't know the best right thing? And he says, Well, we give them a phone on your service so they can call us and ask what the best right thing might be. And everybody in the room knew that that there was this 19-year-old kid here that just schooled someone that was older than him just by just by being clear and plain spoken and giving the truth. And in a way, that really is a picture of leadership. If you communicate clearly what the truth is, if you're having a problem and you ask people to help you with your problem, people don't want to see you get in trouble. People want to help you. And if you're clear with them, but if you shield the problem with them from them, they're gonna look at you and they're gonna go, well, yeah, I'm not, I can't help him. He doesn't want my help. I don't know about the problem. I can't, I'm not part of the solution. But in truth, everybody in an organization is always part of the solution as long as they know there's a problem and they've been invited to help. Yes. That's why when you go to when you go to the companies that I have been a part of, and this goes back into the early 1980s, all the companies I've been a part of, I was schooled by a man who said everybody in our organization is the best salesman we have. Yeah. And all of a sudden, now everybody is rooting not only for the sales team, but to make the sales team look good.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

Yeah, there's buy-in.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

And when that happens, that when that happens, you become an unstoppable force.

unknown 12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

You know, speaking of that story, Peter, I was gonna bring this up earlier, but you brought it up just now with your son. Now, I I have a six-year-old and I have a three-year-old, my my son Atticus, he's an older one. Now, I'm sure we'll have a moment like that at some point. But I I I recall uh watching one of your interviews, and during the interview, I guess you and your son were on a job site together, and well, I guess he called you out and you told him all the things that you think. You were basically like, what are you doing? And later on that that evening, you know, you you and you guys decided to to do it yourselves. Like what was that that full transition like to make the decision to go into business with your son?

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah. Well, uh the story that you're talking about is he went out. I I was uh I was a welder when I was a young man, and I built towers uh in power line situations across northern Minnesota. And and so that led him to be really enamored with what I did when I was a kid. And so he, as a young man, got into the tower business, and I went out to his job site, and they weren't very safe. And so I really went after him and said, listen, this is not a good thing. Somebody's gonna get hurt or even killed out on this job site. And so, and I and I kept I kept kind of pestering him about that. And one night he came home and at the dinner table, he said, if you think you're so smart, let's just do it ourselves. And because I wanted my son to be safe, we just like that decision was a it's an easy decision to make, but it wasn't without a little bit of fear. Um, because when you have a good job and you walk away from that good job and invest your retirement and all of your savings and all of your political capital into a new venture with an 18-year-old. Some people would say that's the height of insanity, but it worked for us.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Yeah, you know, you're the only, you're the second human being that I've ever heard done that before.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Like I hope the first one was successful as well.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

It was, it was. It was just to me, you know, an older gentleman friend of mine, when he said that he was gonna, you know, just go into business with his son, I was I was shocked. I was like, what, you're just gonna retire? And he's like, Yeah, it's like I'm just gonna do it. We get to spend more time together. You know, that and that's that's the height of fatherhood. Is like it's like we get to learn and grow together, and eventually he's thought he'll start teaching me things. And like, okay, you know, that that's not good. So, you know, every leader eventually faced the yes, yes.

Work-Life Balance

SPEAKER_00 15:44

What were you saying? Yeah, we grew up together. We we actually, you know, I was in, I was, I was, I was in my early 40s, and he was, you know, entering his early 20s and when we started this up. So everything that we learned about the business, we learned together. Now, I had business experience, even international experience from my previous careers, but but boy, when you learn the hard way together, you learn really good lessons. And when you learn the easy way and teach one another so that it makes less trouble, then that's a great way to learn too.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

So now is is the I'm grateful. Is the takeaway that it's easier to to problem solve because whatever problems you had on the site, you guys could work it through at dinner time. You know, kind of like a feedback system. Did that did that make things easier, or would you take away like that?

The Most Uncomfortable Transition From Business to Life

SPEAKER_00 16:37

When you're in, I I get asked a lot about work-life balance in an entrepreneurial situation. And if you're in a family business, especially with your children during the early years, there's no such thing as work-life balance. Everything that we think about, everything that we talk about, we're always in survival mode. And so my wife kept the books, my daughter was our secretary, my son was the lead out in the field, I was I was selling and sometimes shoveling and sometimes sweeping. And and it so you're never very far from the business. And so I think that I think that I would encourage people to be able to, I've been able to establish a switch, and I don't know when I got it, but I can actually take and I can turn that business off now. But during the early years, there's no way it turned off.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

So I I guess I have another question. I I think part of the reason why some people aren't successful is because they they love being comfortable and they don't allow themselves to be uncomfortable. So that being the case, what was the most uncomfortable uh transition into going into business, you know, with your son, you know, all those years ago?

Steve Jobs on Employee Reviews

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Well, I would say the most uncomfortable transition, for starters, you you know, I had the support of my wife, and that is just so important. Absolutely. But there's several transitions that I can look at. When you get to and and when I do consulting with other businesses, I talk about this a lot because it's something that we all have to learn. If when we got to five million, I had to in revenue, I had to figure out how to get to 10. And and as I looked at it, there was there was a bottleneck, and the bottleneck was me. And I had to learn, like, Jim, you don't have to do every bid. I was good at estimating, but I had to teach someone else how I estimated so that we could do twice as much estimating. And then ultimately, you know, I would they would like, I would be like, well, if there's a job over$10,000, I gotta look at it and be involved in it. And then pretty soon it was like, they were doing a better job than I was at that. So I'm like, well, maybe if it's over$20,000, I better look at it. And then it's over$100,000. And it wasn't too long before I was going, you know, I'd really like to see everything we bid that goes over a million. And and these people who we taught how to estimate were making more money on their bids than I had because they were more detail-oriented and they and they followed instruction. And so the art and the science of estimating lost its bottleneck, which was me. And so those are the things as founders that we have to learn to take the things that we think we do that were irreplaceable, and we have to actually train a replacement. And it's difficult to do because you don't recognize yourself as the bottleneck. And so when I consult with businesses, I'm like, I sit with CEOs all the time. I'm like, okay, I want you to give me the three things that you hate about your job the most. One of the things I hear all the time is employee reviews. Well, of course, nobody likes to do employee reviews, but you can hand them off to someone who will take the emotion out of it and do a better job of it than you. And then you can be in the review of the reviewer position and give them guidelines, give them cardrails. And and because I get so many founders who come to me and they're like, hey, man, I've built this tremendous business. We're profitable, we're growing, not as fast as I want, but this is going on, that's going on, but I hate my job. Like, well, you didn't design a business where you hated your job, bro. Come on, let's find out why you why you are not enjoying the fruits of your labor, and let's fix it. Yeah. So, uh, and that's really a lot of fun because when you see the light bulb, when you boom, when the light bulb goes off on an entrepreneur's head, you can watch it happen.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

I think I think that's what you you know, what you said. It's the fruits of your labor, right? And it's the seeds that you sow that will bear fruit, either good fruit or bad fruit. You know, it but it all on the seed that you sow. And you know you know, and I'm gonna touch back, you know, to a point you made earlier, that a cornerstone, I think, in your success, you you you your family front, everything is taken care of. Not just that you were working with your family, but you're also in alignment with your with your wife, that you had her support. And what that does to an individual when all things, you know, all is clear on the home front, right? Everything's good, everything's a go, everything's green. It's like, you know, win to a sales, right? It's like you can accomplish anything because you're not fighting a battle on the home front, you're enjoying peace and and and and and and prosperity and growth, and you all have a shared vision and working towards that vision together, you have unity. And so I maybe that separated you from many other people from getting to where you are today.

Steve Jobs on Culture

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah, and I think too, one of the things that comes into play that I've experienced firsthand, and that makes it super important because because I watched it happen, and when my wife built me up and gave me confidence, when I walked out the door, there was you couldn't beat us. There's no way because my wife believed in me and and And and that didn't put pressure on me. That gave me confidence. And then when you know that the people that you're working with that you've invested in over such a long time, they are they are doing and carrying out the expectations you have for safety and quality and customer service. And when you set those bars high and you know they're being carried out, then you go out and and you get to sell more with such confidence, you're unbeatable.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's nothing, there's nothing better than that. So in talking about culture and business, as you've been navigating the corporate world and you know, and what was it like witnessing, maybe from a consulting perspective, culture's unraveling, but the maybe the founder or the CEO, they thought they knew what their problems were. And then you maybe you perhaps highlighted that. Those problems are not the real problems. You're you're really discussing the side effect. Here is the root cause. Have you encountered that a lot?

Top Executives on Scale

SPEAKER_00 23:27

I have. Especially when I get a consulting gig, I I will go visit the business before I sit with the owner on a long-term basis, especially, and and and think of it like a secret shopper. Um, I I went to a business recently and I was able to walk in the back door and I was in their shop for 20 minutes before someone said, Who are you? Why are you here? And and and I was like, well, wow, there's a really strong indication that the people who work here don't have a lot of ownership over this space. And when you go in, you can see uh you can see order or you can see chaos. And there's not a lot of middle ground. If you go into a manufacturing space, I've done a lot with engineered wood manufacturing and things like that. And so you go into a space and you look at it, and it and there's only there's only two opportunities, and one is order and the other is chaos. And if the manufacturing floor looks disorganized, guess what? The systems are disorganized, the directions are is organized, and the standards are low. And you can tell that just right out of the gate. And so when you walk up and you say and you ask a CEO, I mean, here's a question. One of the first questions that comes out of my mouth, how often are you, and it doesn't matter whether it's a sales floor, it doesn't matter whether it's a manufacturing floor, it doesn't matter whether it's a job site or a distribution center. How often are you touching the people? Well, you know, I'm just so busy. Really, really, I don't think I can help many people like that. Yeah. People ask me all the time, like, what was your most important job as a CEO? And I thought about that for a long time. And I've said this a hundred times, and people don't believe me, but it's true. The most important thing I did as a CEO was when we got to close to a couple of hundred people, I was still writing handwritten birthday cards to every employee every month. And when I did that, I had people who were engaged and they knew that I knew them or I knew of them because I wrote something about their work environment in a birthday card to them. I had I had grown men walk up and throw their arms around me and hug me and thank me because they'd never got a birthday birthday present or a birthday card from anybody in their life. And it was, it's just, it becomes a a study, a fascinating study of human nature about how we always take the easy way instead of like it would be easy to do a computer generated card. It would, it would be easy to have an auto pen sign it. It would be easy to have it automatically mailed, but these are hand addressed. No, I didn't address all of them. I truth be known, the envelopes came to me, they were already addressed, but I picked up a card and and sometimes I didn't even know the person because they were a remote location, but I stopped what I was doing and I went and I found out something about them so that I could say, listen, you're important to me. Yes. And when that happens, it creates magic. And it's like walking out to a floor and and saying hi. And the one of the things that started this is I walked out on our on our shop floor and I said I asked somebody what they were doing there, and they they were kind of stunned. They're like, I work for you. And I was like, Whoa, I don't even know their name. Like, I gotta fix this. So my post important job was birthday cards. Yes, still is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Oh gosh. Yeah, I one of the most uh compelling things for me in interviewing you is thinking about scale and how you I believe you went from 50 to 800 something in one of your your interviews. And I, you know, I couldn't imagine writing 800 or you know, uh cards for birthdays and and things of that nature. That's intimidating. But if you know, if you practice it, I'm sure it gets easy with time.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

You know, there were five businesses that we merged together, and so I only had one of those, and so the ultimate size of the organization was about 800. Of those, I only wrote 200 birthday cards. So don't worry about it. Okay, okay, okay. But I encouraged the other CEOs who were part of that business to engage their people in that way, and the ones who did were were ultimately successful.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

What was the productivity like after that? Because now someone feels people feel valued. You have 800 people that show up in an environment that now feel valued and heard and seen. And now there's a personal stake there for them. Not just what they're getting in in their paycheck, but the added investment of you took the time to reach out and say, hey, happy birthday. I know X, Y, and Z about you. You are important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

But one of the things that it's really difficult to convince corporate America of, and I'll use a really, really easy example, safety. And they want to say, give me a program that's scalable. Wow. Give you a safety program that's scalable. I can do that. I can do that. I'm gonna train each individual to make good safe decisions. I'm gonna train them like if you're talking about something like when you ascend towers for a living, it's really not a good thing to fall. And so we have to tie off. And so I'm gonna tell everybody, I'm gonna train everybody, and then I'm gonna encourage everybody to make a good decision. And then I'm gonna give them a why. And the why is personal and it's selfish. I want you to tie off so I don't have to go tell your wife, mama, girlfriend, significant other that you were stupid. Yes. And then I would tell them about a story about safety that made it deeply personal. Because when you look at things like that that are so important, it doesn't matter whether you're working on a, I mean, if you're working with a crew of truck drivers, who wants their wife to know that they died in a truck wreck because they didn't do what we told them to do? Well, no one does. So let's be, let's choose. So the only thing that scales about safety is individuals making safe choices on a moment-by-moment basis with that being a core value instead of simply just a priority. Because if it's only a priority and you get a call from the IRS, all your priorities just changed. Yes. So if it's a core value, our decisions are only based upon what we need to do at that moment to get home to our family.

In the Elevator With Tracy

SPEAKER_03 30:35

Yeah, absolutely. Now in in this era, and something that I've noticed is that now in in the corporate world, maybe all aspects of business, is that leaders have to wear many hats. Like some days you have to go in, you're the you're the football coach, you're the you're you're the cheerleader, you're the motivational speaker. It's it's you have to wear these hats because if you don't, the alternative is that it'll be like during the pandemic where if you didn't care about me, well, I'll show you how much I care about you and just not work.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

And I don't think we I don't think that the world has truly recovered from that mentality yet. I think that the the investment piece has to be there and we have to wear these hats. What are some of the hats that you've had to wear throughout the years?

The Generational Tensions in Corporate America

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Well, you know, we've worn a production hat, we've worn a management hat, we've worn a HR hat, we've worn a finance hat, we've worn them all. But there's no hat that's more important than the hat I'm gonna tell you about now. If you walk in to the place where I used to work, or any of the places where I used to work, what you're gonna find is my reputation is still there. And and you and if you ask those people about me, and and you say, what is it about Tracy that that made you work here for 25 years? They're gonna say, Oh, he loves me. If we can convince our employees that their comfort is more important than my comfort, and that I will become uncomfortable so that they can become uncomfortable, or I will get uncomfortable beside their discomfort. All of a sudden, they know that I place them on a higher pedestal than I place myself. And they will, their, their, you know, their why monitor is pretty sensitive and very accurate. They're gonna know if you're blowing smoke, and they're gonna know if you're not, if you're not being real with them. If you're not you look up the most researched word in 2023, guess what it was? Real. Authentic. Authentic. If people, if people's BS meter is going off because you're not authentic with them, you'll get no loyalty. It's the that's where the quiet quit has its root. Regardless of what your hat you're wearing, make sure your people know that you love them. And why should you love them? Because they're feeding your family, because they're making your customers happy, because they're making your house payment. I never made any money, never have. All these guys who work for me, all these gals who work for me, they just loaded my checkbook and I love them for it, and so I tried to load theirs back.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Reciprocity. Look at that. Reciprocity. What a concept. Now, in in in in in in in this era, you know, I some of the things that I've noticed is sometimes there's generational tensions in corporate America where either the younger professionals they feel dismissed, or vice versa, the the the older professionals they feel like they're overlooked. Is that something that you've had to navigate while you're consulting that you've experienced, you know, when the Everyday. Okay. Every day.

In the Elevator With Steve Jobs

SPEAKER_00 34:23

But you know, I find it one of the most confusing things still. Um, and I'm gonna use two approaches. I'll tell you about my personal journey first. Yes. My grandfather was born in 1903, and my youngest granddaughters were born in 2025. Well, wow, that's a 200 or that's a 122-year spread of people. And so I crossed seven generations, and I have gotten along with every generation. Now, if I can do it, you can do it. Absolutely well, then that comes to the how. When I stand up on stages and I talk to audiences, they're usually segregated. It's very predictable. And and if it's a corporate setting, it's gonna be the young people on the left and the old people on the right, and then in the middle is management. And and you ask them this lovely, lovely question that always works every time is respect given or is respect earned? And the young people say respect is given, and the old people say respect is earned. It's almost universal, it never fails. And my reply to that is if I earn respect before it's given, and I give respect before it's earned, who wins? I don't think everyone wins. I want to earn your respect before you give it to me, and that's a gift. Yes. But I also want to give you respect because of your humanity before you get a chance to earn it, so then we can actually engage in the big C word, communication.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Yes.

How to Resolve a Generational Conflict

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Because we can't talk to someone who doesn't respect us. This is true. We can't even hear someone who doesn't respect us. So why and that goes into another? There's a three. I give a keynote and I'm like, so the most important thing is generous listening, and then the most important thing is taking time and energy to build a relationship, and then the most important thing is respect. Give it and earn it. So there's a there's a ten thousand dollar keynote for you. Free of charge.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

So I I appreciate that. Um I feel like that to be this interview itself is its entire, you know, keynote, keynote in itself. Speaking of that. So can you uh give a specific or name a specific generational conflict that you've had to resolve, had to resolve? Uh oh, sure.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

I had I had two gentlemen who were one generation apart, and one was on the sales side, and he was driven. He was driven towards revenue and volume, and there was just no stopping this dude. He's still a good friend, still love him. And I had a production manager who was who was so quality and production focused that he was unstoppable, but they were unstoppable with different methods of motivation. One wanted one wanted perfect product and the other one wanted perfect revenue. And never could they meet. And so I went to them and I'm like, okay, so here's the deal. If you can't get along, this company will fail. Simple as that. If production and sales can't get along and can't speak with one another, the company will fail. And so it's on your problem, it's on your shoulders, it's your job to restore it. And after a week, they were at each other's throat again. So I said, okay, we've got a we've got this conference coming up, and I booked a room and a flight for the two of you. You're getting a taxi together, you're driving to the airport together, you're taking the plane, sitting next to one another. I don't care who sits in the middle seat, you're not going first class. And you're sharing a hotel room, but there's two queen beds, and you're going to sit together at the conference, then you're going to get a taxi home, and then you're going to fly home together, and then you're going to come and you're going to write to me a list of the 10 best things about the other person. Wow. You know what? All of a sudden, they were in a position where they were forced to align with the needs of the company and the needs of the people who were at the company instead of their own selfish desires. Now, their own selfish desires were innately good. In order to in order to understand one, you first had to empathize a little bit with that other person. And you couldn't do that if you couldn't hear them. So what we did is we kind of locked them in a jail cell over a week together so that they would begin the process of speaking. And it was it one one became the general manager, and one became the and and after that, after I left that company, the the guy who was the sales side left and got a huge bump and a raise and a new big promotion. He brought the production manager with him. Yeah. His best friend, his his best friend.

SPEAKER_03 39:41

Yeah. You know, I think sometimes I feel that in a work environment, people aren't allowed to truly just work their differences out. Sometimes it's just, all right, let's just separate them and that's it. Or let's move this one to this location. And then people then don't learn how to work through problems together to overcome that, which is a natural part of life. And that's a component that's missing in society today that people don't know how to work through their differences.

How to Develop a Collaborative Culture

SPEAKER_00 40:12

So my question to you is And that communication level, that communication level is really, really critical. Because if I get two people who aren't going to get along, then I take them, like usually I would take them in a private place. I hate conference rooms, so I'll walk outside and I take them outside and we sit down at a picnic table or something like that. And I say, okay, it's become apparent that the two of you don't like one another. What is it that you don't like about him? Wow, you mean you want me to talk? And you know, if someone's gonna bring up the bad stuff, then it opens the door for the other side to bring up the bad stuff. But you know what? That bad stuff, that friction, that conflict has to come to the surface. Yes. So whatever I have to do to bring that up to help them, because I mean, I can solve it or they can solve it. Their solutions will be better than mine. I promised them that. I bet it would. I bet it would. My solutions are always violent, man. I only have the power of the checkbook. Yeah. So I so it you either get to work here or you don't get to work here. So let's find a remedy together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

I love that. So how do you think you know that leaders can be more, you know, use more productive measures to resolve a conflict? As I you know, we're talking about, yes, as as the the leader, founder, you do control the the checkbook. But a problem like that can resurface again. So how can we just be more productive, you know, and create a culture where, hey, you guys don't get along, but here's how we can turn this chaos into productivity.

Steve Jobs on Power and Influence

SPEAKER_00 42:02

Yeah, well, our especially as at founder level businesses, our our desire is to follow our nature. And so we're fixers. So we want to throw a wrench around that problem. We want to fix it ourselves. And I think that is the first tendency of most founder-led uh businesses. And so I would encourage people let's just take a step back and let's get in a room with the people who don't get along and listen. When we listen to them, we're gonna find out a deeper root cause that they're gonna let on initially. He's he's just a jerk all the time. Really? What does that look like? And then turn the key and shut up and listen. And when we listen, we're gonna find that the deeper root cause to the problems might be, it might not be, so if you have a production line issue, it might be it might be a bottleneck that is completely unrelated to the two personalities involved. And so now, unless we fight, you know, it might be two people up uh up the production line, it might be, it might be a piece of paper that's getting that's getting in the way of two people getting along. Well, it's then you have an oper, if you listen, you have an opportunity to actually affect repairs.

SPEAKER_03 43:22

Yes. So at what point in your career did you realize that power and influence, you know, authority and and and influence are not necessarily the same thing. Like do you have like a specific story or uh a nugget, a nugget plus?

SPEAKER_00 43:40

I had you couldn't do this anymore, but I was I was recently graduated from college. I had my first job out of college. I worked for a lovely man who I can't even I can't even express to you how much admiration I have for him. His name was Leroy, and and I was gonna go out in the field on sales. I had done the production side, I had done the estimating side, I had done the customer service side, and the way to get ahead there was to to be an outside sales. And so I went into outside sales, and as I did, it became it became an opportunity that I couldn't pass up. So I'm let it, I'm headed from Minneapolis to. Des Moines, Iowa on a Sunday night to go out and hit the road, hit the bricks right away on Monday morning. Friday afternoon, Leroy calls me into his office. He said, JT, he said, give me your business card. And so I handed him my business card and I was pretty proud of it. It said, Sales engineer on my card. And he said, JT, whose name is on that card? And I'm like, oh, Leroy, my name is on that card. He goes, No, sir. My name is on that card. And if I ever hear you going into a bar alone on the road, if I ever hear you stepping out on your wife, or if I ever hear you misbehaving while you're carrying my business cards, I will immediately fire you. Do you understand? Whoa, here's a man who said the character is more important than anything I was walking out of there with. It was more important than knowledge. It was more important than responsibility. It was character. And if you act in a way that doesn't embarrass your company, you'll be successful. That's what he told me. Now, that kind of authority is not really practiced anymore because we can't say, hey, if you, you know, do this or do that. But you know what? I've I've taken people aside and said, listen, I can see that you're doing the wrong thing. I can see that you're not coming to work drunk, but boy, you're sure hung over. I can see that you're in a struggle. I want to come alongside you, but you've got to choose to make some decisions that will help you and help your family and help my company. And then they know that the secret's out. And there's so there's many different, there's many different times when leadership and authority merge where you care for people. And if you care more about, you know, like I said, when I want people to be safe so their wife doesn't have to experience trauma and tragedy. And when when people understand that you love them enough to you love them just like they are, but not enough where you want them to stay that way. Yeah, they they feel it. They know it.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

Now, and as you said, you know, they feel it, they know it. When you looking back, because you were just talking about an an instance in the past where someone said, your character matters. Now, as as a as a leader, you know, back then, if you looking back, did you picture yourself where you are today? Like, did you did you ever imagine at the time that, hey, I would be here, eight, you know, you know, merged and have eight, you know, 800 employees, you know, uh in telecommunications, not a welder, not, you know, but you're a telecom consultant, you know, all these things.

Marriages Long Term Success

SPEAKER_00 47:18

No, in a word, no. I was a kid, I was a kid, I grew up in a family of eight children, uh, plus two more adopted. So there were 10 of us, 12 around the dinner table, 13 if my grandma was there, and she was there often. Um, and and I was the dumb one and I was the slow one, and I stuttered when I was young, and I had a learning disability with math, and I had no, I never took algebra until I was a freshman in college. Oh. And so I I had I had no concept, no clue. When I started getting people who started building me up, it started pretty young, but but then it really accelerated as as I got into business, especially with that first guy that I just told you about who gave me that chat. And and the farther I went, the more mistakes. What I learned is that mistakes are awesome because that's tuition that you just paid. And if you're smart, you don't have to be like book smart, brain smart. You just have to say, that hurt. I don't want to do that again. And if you learn from those mistakes, you have prepaid tuition that you never have to pay again, and it's gonna pay dividends. Yes. And and so as the as the kid who was the slowest, who was the dumbest, who got the worst grades, I mean, I I I've got six brothers, so I've I've heard every slam you can get, you can have. And they love me, but they're also my brothers, man. That's the only deal. They'll be the first ones to defend me and the first ones to punch me. Listen, it gives you it gives you strength. There you go. There you go. And they and they and they, you know, they were also very influential in my youth and in my upbringing. When it comes to character, when you're from a small town and you do something wrong, the whole town knows right away. And and and if if the whole town knows, then your brothers know. And if your brothers know, you're gonna pay a price. So we did we did a lot to not embarrass the family name, but no, I had no clue that there would be a a a leadership like this in my future.

SPEAKER_03 49:35

So, and and so I'll pivot to the next thing. So 46 years of marriage, right? I I think that marriage is its own form of leadership personally. That's my personal belief, and right, where you know, you have the executive branch and so forth, and you have your kids, and you know, we can get into that. But what are some takeaways from your marriage, 46 years of marriage, that you were able to then you know, cross over into business to then have the same longevity that you had in your marriage have it translate into the into business as well?

SPEAKER_00 50:15

So uh the truth in advertising is 45 years until April 19th. So whenever you publish, if it's after April 19th, then it'll be 46 years. But at the end of the day, I think one of the most important things that I have come to learn is that it's really important when when when you step in alongside someone and you make a commitment that says till death to us part, it's not all champagne and roses. It ain't all chocolates and caviar. There's been many times where I am certain that my wife could have, should have, and probably without faith would have walked away from this colossal loser. I have I have had as many business failures, uh, more business failures than successes. We moved to Denver because a business that Jim tried didn't work out. And then we moved from Denver to Seattle when a business that Jim had and the economy tank started feeling, and then he got a great job, and then he started another business with his son that by any measure shouldn't have succeeded. But uh here again, I have been blessed by someone who has a great deal of confidence in me, not because of who I am, but because I am first and foremost the protector of my wife and my family. Yes. And in terms of marriage, we have very distinct roles. My wife is infinitely smarter than I am. And I mean that in and it's not in a it's it's not in a generous way, it's just the fact she's so smart, and she homeschooled five children from to be five incredibly independent and competent individuals in their own right. And and she did so why keeping the books at her office for the first decade, and I mean building a house and uh building another house and building our shop, et cetera, et cetera. But through all of this, her faith in me expressed as confidence, was such an invaluable thing. And I just couldn't have done any of this without her. So in a true spirit of partnership, 15 years ago, she was in a snowmobile wreck and she suffered a stroke. And I do a I'm doing a whole bunch of keynotes in the healthcare industry right now because of this. I describe what it feels like in healthcare when you're the husband of a victim. And and she suffered a very traumatic uh facial trauma and stroke, and and I learned how to do dishes and do the laundry, and I learned how to cook. And I I mean I could barbecue before then, but I didn't know how to cook. And so I became I became the person who picked up the slack for her instead of the previous first 25 years where she picked up the slack for me. And that's the kind of teamwork that it takes in a business. That's the kind of teamwork that it takes in a marriage. If we care so much about someone that we'll do the hard things for them because they're so important, business, family, marriage, friendship. Just love people, man. It's the secret to everything. And love them by what you do, not by it's not it ain't a feeling. It's I remember my daughter one time, she accidentally left the freezer open during the summer in our garage. And by the time I figured it out, it was because I smelled it. And she'll never make that mistake again. And it's not because not because she got a spanking, it's not because she got, you know, disciplined, it's because she got to watch her dad clean up this horrible mess and not complain about it. And and I never have to worry about freezers being left open again. There's the bonus. Yeah.

Jim Baldwin on His Legacy

SPEAKER_03 54:24

You know, you know what this is this stage in life, you know, you've worn many hats, you've you're and you're still wearing many hats. You're you know, father, husband, grandfather, entrepreneur, and and all those things.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

So in this great grandpa in July. Just saying, dude. This is a this is a scoop for you. Yeah, I'm gonna be a great grandpa this July.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

Well, you know, congratulations in advance, Jim. Now, what what what is legacy for you at this point? Now that is is Wow, you know, I think that this is your legacy, you know, especially now it's great. There is great attached to Jim, not just grand, but great.

SPEAKER_00 55:04

Yeah. So one of the things that Sarah and I have done over the years is we go away the first part, the last part of every year, or even sometimes like this year, the first part of this year, very first week of the month, we went away for a weekend and we decide that what our focus for that year is gonna be. And then we pick one word that's gonna define that. And that has really been a guiding principle for us for I guess a couple of decades, because it helps us stay centered and focused on on what we want to do. There's it as you get older, you get more options, and options are really cool, but you don't want to spend your time on foolish options either. Because there's so little time left when you're when you're my age, you want to make the most of it, man. And and when people tell me, Jim, hey, just go retire and sit back and play golf or go fishing or go hunting or whatever, you know, do what you want. I'm like, I am doing what I want. And so the word for this year is impact. We want to have impact for people. And how do we do that? Well, I have a podcast that's just exploding. I have a business where she is coming alongside me and we're traveling together to speak to groups. And, you know, when you get 2,000 people in an audience, when I get off stage, I have given everything for an hour or two hours, and she helps me get centered, get grounded, and she talks to people so I don't have to talk to everybody because people want to, you know, talk to you and shake your hand and stuff after you get off stage. So uh with the books, what we're doing is we're creating methodologies where we can impact more people, and we can impact them for the right reason. It's not for money, it's not for glory, it's because we think that the messages that we can give are gonna help them. And if we can help people, there is no more noble cause than that, other than sharing our faith. And so with that, the impact, the greatest impact that I can have. I'm doing some, I'm doing some speeches where I do pro bono work. I'm gonna tell people that my life is better because of Jesus. And I hope that they can come alongside that and I'll tell them all about it if they want.

Expectations in the Workplace

SPEAKER_03 57:25

Amen. Yeah, amen to that. I I you know, thank you, you know, I want to say sincerely, no, thank you for that. I I there's something that I believe in. You know, we say, you know, servant leadership, but there's a man that lived you know 2,000 years ago, and he taught us about sacrifice. And when we learn how to sacrifice, it we see the the fruits that that bears, right? It's like, oh, I'm not going out every weekend slamming back, you know, drinks or whatever. And as a result, maybe that's why I'm living a healthier life. You know, it's it's sacrifice. You sacrifice certain things so you can have something better at the end. And you know, thank you truly for for sharing that. There's one last question I want to ask you before I forget. And I think that, you know, with families, and I said this in the beginning, but there's a there's kind of like a like a mirror of healthy family, healthy workplace. If you're the founder, CEO, what have you, and if you can mirror the healthy family structure that you have at home with the healthy corporate structure that you have, then you can have success on both fronts. Is that something that you you've witnessed to be the case?

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Yeah, and and there's a methodology that I think is really, really missing in today's families and in today's culture, but also in today's business societies and practices. And that is expectations. We live in a society that says that we have to dumb down our expectations so that people can meet them. And I think the opposite is true. I think we have to raise expectations and hold them higher so people can strive to meet them. Because I was, I did a job on a large military base, and we went on base, and the head civilian at the base came to me and he says, he says, so I need to know understand your quality procedures. And I'm like, okay. Our quality procedures are wrapped up in a sentence. Are you ready? He's like, you know, I want a book. I'm like, well, we can't give you a book. Uh if you want a book, there's an ASTM book we can give you that will detail that. And and he's like, he's like, okay, I'll play along. What is your sense? Perfect is good enough. His response was unbelievable. He said, he said, you're gonna discourage all of your people. Your people will hate working for you if you expect perfection. And I said, no, sir, I don't expect perfection. I just know that perfect is good enough. And if they strive for perfect and they hit awesome, you're gonna be the happiest customer on the planet. And he's like, Well, I'm gonna roll this up the I'm gonna roll this up the food chain. Well, fortunately for him, by the time he got it backed off a food chain and told me that he needed a book, we had a book for him, and it was an ASTM book that was 400 pages long and it cost 175 bucks to get it, and it tells us how to put up towers and how to maintain towers and how to do it safely, but it had nothing to do with the quality of the product that we actually had already built for him on the site where it was. Because perfectly. And so I would tell you that if you have expectations for your children, and that that's their grades, that's their behavior, that's how they respect their mother, that's how they don't fidget because they don't have an electronic. That if you have expectations for your employees, that they keep a clean truck, that they make sure and make safe decisions at every turn, it's no different than my wife having expectations that I'm gonna be a good provider and come home and take the garbage out. And like, man, it's every it's part of everything we do. So raise those expectations, America, and let's show everybody in the world what it looks like to be a winner. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:37

Yeah, Jim. It's easy. It it is easy because perfect is good enough. You know, I I I love that you should put on in a shirt. That should that should be shirt. It should be. You know, Jim, it it has been uh a great time having you. And uh truly, you know, thank you, thank you for for reaching out and thank you for being a part of the podcast. It really means a lot to me because I I've never intended on doing a video podcast. And something told me that this was gonna be the one that I was gonna do it. And so that's why this is the first. So, Jim, you're the you're the first uh the Magnificent Ones podcast to to be on video because normally I was just doing audio only. So thank you sincerely for being a part of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:23

Okay, man, I'm so humbled to uh to be able to impact your audience. Hopefully it's something that I said could impact someone, and now Sarah's gonna be really happy that I used our word.

Good Clarity Is Necessary

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

Well, tell her thank you as well. And thank you, you know, thank you, bro. We'll do. You know, uh just give me one moment here. No, leadership is not defined by titles, it is defined by the cultures we create, and the people who continue building those cultures long after we are gone. The strongest leaders understand that relationships, trust, shared purpose are not built in a moment. They are built through decisions repeated over years, sometimes decades. Jim Tracy, thank you for joining us today on the Magnificent Ones. And to everyone listening, if this conversation resonated with you, share this episode. Share with someone who is building something, something meaningful in their own lives or a leadership journey. Because the culture we build today becomes the legacy we leave tomorrow. Until next time. If this podcast challenged you, good. Clarity often does. The point here isn't consensus or reassurance, it's to leave you more precise than when you arrived. Keep what sharpens your thinking, discard the rest. But don't confuse familiarity with truth. If this conversation mattered, follow the podcast and share it selectively with people who value depth and not noise. Until next time, stay disciplined with your thinking, selective with your attention, and honest about what you're really optimizing for.