“If you are here on this earth, you are important . . . and it means you have something meaningful to contribute. Now what you need to do is to figure out what thing is you want to contribute. So if you are in a state of well-being . . . and when you are in alignment and connection with what that is, you can truly develop your potential, you can truly be more productive in the way that you work, you can take the friction out of the hustle, you can work more creatively and you can build more positive relationships, and you can cope with everyday stresses of life . . . that enables you to make that meaningful contribution.”
In this episode of Practice Well(Being) our co-host Nita Cumello shares her wisdom including:
She also explains why ultimately, it’s all about pairing well-being with purpose to facilitate our success as individuals, as organizations, and as a whole community.
You can connect with Nita and Becky on LinkedIn. You can also learn more about Becky’s work on her website at www.untanglehappiness.com.
“If you are here on this earth, you are important . . . and it means you have something meaningful to contribute. Now what you need to do is to figure out what thing is you want to contribute. So if you are in a state of well-being . . . and when you are in alignment and connection with what that is, you can truly develop your potential, you can truly be more productive in the way that you work, you can take the friction out of the hustle, you can work more creatively and you can build more positive relationships, and you can cope with everyday stresses of life . . . that enables you to make that meaningful contribution.”
In this episode of Practice Well(Being) our co-host Nita Cumello shares her wisdom including:
She also explains why ultimately, it’s all about pairing well-being with purpose to facilitate our success as individuals, as organizations, and as a whole community.
You can connect with Nita and Becky on LinkedIn. You can also learn more about Becky’s work on her website at www.untanglehappiness.com.
In this episode of practice wellbeing. My co-host Becky Morrison talks about her journey from lawyer to executive to happiness coach. We not only get to know Becky, but start digging into some really important concepts and research around happiness, positive emotion, performance, and the investments we make in optimizing our lives and ability to succeed.
We are not taught the ways that happiness and having more positive emotional experiences really impact our overall wellbeing, performance, and success. Oftentimes, happiness is a word that feels fluffy, but Becky talks about it as one of the highest value investments that we can make for ourselves and the world.
It's a turbo boost for our performance. Thank you for listening in. Let's get to it.
[INTRO MUSIC]
So Nita, I am super excited that we are kicking off this project together and it's our first episode. And because our first episode, I thought it might make sense before we get into the substance of me interviewing you for us to talk a little bit about how we got connected and how we landed in this place.
So I'll let you start. Okay. Well, I mean, I am so many ways. I first off start out by saying I'm equally excited. I've been wanting to do this for so long. Um, and you are just like the perfect partner for it. So I'm so happy that we're doing it together, but in terms of like how we got connected, I keep thinking about this, that I feel like the layers of connection that we had over the years just seem almost like the universe wanted us to come together in some way.
Um, You know, we met, what was it like 14 years ago? Because our boys just turned 14. So we always know how long ago it was that we met since they've been friends, quite literally since birth, we met because they were in daycare together. Right. And, you know, we were in the thick of. Working kind of those long, crazy hours, you know, for our respective, you know, organizations, firms, companies, whatever, not that that much has changed about that, but that was more in like chapters one through three of our careers, I would say.
Um, and we've just managed to stay connected, not just because of the boys, but because of that friendship, you know, that we built through kind of the commonalities, I think in experience and just, you know, working together with you as a client and. When you weren't a client anymore, it's still continued on like in the friendship.
And then it was more in like kind of a coaching, almost mentorship type relationship. I see you in that vein and just always connect it to you. Yeah. I mean, and not to mention the fact that somewhere in those 14 years, we literally moved in. Like one house away from each other. So that has only added a layer to the connection, right?
This geographic proximity. But it's, it's true that we met early in our, earlier in our careers and in our parenthood and in our marriages and have sort of walked a winding path where we've had the opportunity to work together, but not in a way that feels exciting as this opportunity to work together.
So I'm excited to see sort of the next chapter. And that's a great actually for me, a great segue into the substance of this episode, which is, you know, here we are relaunching this podcast. It's all about wellbeing and specifically wellbeing in the legal space. And I want you to tell, to tell the folks why wellbeing, why wellbeing?
Well, There's a lot to that, but I'll just sort of start with kind of the journey or my story in terms of how, how I feel like I came to this space and how, of course it would make sense that we aligned on this, but you know, a few years ago, one of the. Like executive leaders in my organization, I work for Thomson Reuters and I have for the majority of my entire career, 19 years, actually this week.
Um, but one of those executives put 30 minutes on my calendar and said that he wanted to talk to me about my performance and like any type a, you know, what can I do better? Oh, no kind of moment. Um, Like I'm sure many people who would be listening to this podcast would, would have I just thought to myself, oh my gosh, what did I do?
You know, what does he want to talk about? My numbers have actually been pretty good. So then I took a pause and I was like, oh, I can't really be bad. You know, they've been fairly consistently good. So I can't imagine that he's concerned about that. So I wonder what this is about. And so, you know, When we finally got on the call, one of the first things that he said to me was, you know, you've had, you've had a, a long stretch.
You've had great performance year over year, over year, and I just need to better understand. How you do what you do to keep this up, you know, one so that we don't lose you and too, so that we can help others to do the same. And a, I mean, that was a wonderful call to have. And what an amazing leader I would say to have come to me with that, it made me feel amazing.
But outside of that, the opportunity, I think that it gave me two. Reflect on what my answer was going to be. You know, this conversation happened to be just timing wise in my life shortly followed by a leadership program for women, kind of that I was invited to be a part of for women leaders at Thomson Reuters and both.
That conversation with him and the program that I was in, just gave me an opportunity to reflect. I need to actually take an inward look on what is that thing that has enabled me to sustain and grow and thrive and perform, you know, over these last 19 years. And what is frankly like so many other, uh, roles or jobs, you know, really high stress and demanding.
Yeah. And you, I mean, you said something that I just, I just take a note, even though we've talked a ton, but like you hit on, you know, before we talk about more about wellbeing topics, how important it is to our wellbeing, but also to our performance that we give ourselves those moments of reflection.
Those moments of pause, those moments of stopping and taking stock instead of always trying to be in motion. Right. And for you, I mean, I know you're a goer, like you are a goer and a doer. And so not that you're not a very sort of like introspective, reflective self-aware person also, but there's a difference when you actually stop.
Absolutely. Like, it's almost like having one of those, like come to Jesus moments with myself, like what is important to me and, you know, in that reflection. And can you kind of ask me about like, why wellbeing? I think I've always, you said it I've always been a goer. I've always been a driven person, but I've also always been someone who has believed.
In my deepest core that our goals don't take us where we want to go. It's great to have goals, but just because you have a goal, doesn't mean that you're going to achieve it. Right. It's the daily commitments that we make that enable us to achieve our goals. And then you layer on top of that. But the difference that we can make or the path that we can take to achieve those goals for ourselves and for others is a function of attitude and effort.
So for me, that was, that is how I sort of came to discover that those daily commitments that I make for myself are really sort of centered around what makes me. Like a whole wholly happy whole person. Um, and can you tell us a little bit about, I mean, just to make it concrete for people, what are some of those for you?
What are some of those daily commitments? And I can, I will be the first to acknowledge that like what my daily commitments are, are not going to be what yours are, what frankly, anybody else's will be. I mean, that's something that is personal to each and every one of us, but for me, At a higher level, the daily commitments are what I need to do for myself that remove the friction from the hustle.
Does that make sense? So like the way I really thought about it, cause I knew you were going to kind of ask me this life and work have challenges enough. Right. I don't really need to add any more effort that's required to, to meet those challenges by, by not feeling. Or by not having enough energy because there's a lot that's on my plate.
Like, like so many other people. So, so for me personally, daily commitments are those activities that enable me to stay physically healthy, to stay mentally strong and to feel connected to my. Okay. So what I mean by that, just to take that one next layer, what does that mean to be physically healthy, mentally strong and connected to my people in the context of daily commitments for me, I need to move my body every single day.
I need to move my body every single day. It could be a run. It could be a bike ride to be over, whatever it is, a walk. It doesn't matter. I need to move. It's just a non-ablative. I also need time to think and to learn that is so important to me. And that could be reading. It could be listening to a podcast.
It could be having a conversation like this. I need something that enriches that growth of my, of my knowledge for me. And then I would say, you know, as I'm ever the extrovert, I also need to be with people. And people in particular who gives me positive energy. Yeah. So, you know, these are the things that I have to do on a daily basis.
All three of them, like I cannot miss all, all of that in any single day. I have to, to do that, to make me a better human being. You know, they make me a better mother. They make me a better wife. They make me, you know, even when I'm not with those people, even when I'm not with my family, I still have to do those things.
And it still makes me better for them. It also makes me a better friend and a better leader in my organization. So, so those are the daily commitments that are not non-negotiables for me. So what I want to highlight about those and I love all of them and I love the way that you framed it for two reasons.
Number one, you're not talking about huge giant mountain moving like. Older lifting daily commitments. And to you frame them for yourself in a way that allows you a ton of possibility and flexibility in the execution. So you haven't taken it to the, and I'm not saying that everyone has to do that, but I'm just saying the permission that you're giving yourself by doing that is huge because it's not, I will run every day because what if there's a day that running doesn't fit in?
What if there's a day that running doesn't feel right, right. Moving your body. I mean, the world is your oyster. You could dance, you could yoga. You could. Yes, Ron, you can walk, you could, uh, Peloton, you could do something like there's a, the list goes on, right? Yup. And for me, I could even mix those together.
Like, I mean, not have to go too far down deep into this. I could literally do all three at the same. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Which, which is really cool. And so I think it's nice, like, you know, for folks who are listening and thinking about what could I do with this concept of daily commitment. And I think it's really about thinking about the things that.
Increase your overall wellness. And you've put it in the three categories to my mind. You've started to go to like mind, body, soul, and athlete. And so what do you need? What vitamins, what food in a metaphorical sense. And sometimes in a real sense, do you need to be healthy in those categories? Yes, but I want to take it one step further.
Those are the daily commitments, but really like the more I think about it. And I open up kind of the aperture on this conversation around like wellbeing. I think the reason that those in particular, like, speak to me is because. So much, a part of wellbeing is like the connection to yourself and, and also the connection to others.
Right. But, but to connection to yourself, it's like, what's your purpose is what is, what are you here to do? Right. And that, for me in my life, I think that, you know, The kind of person or my, why I would say or what my purpose is, is that everything that I've ever desired to do or set out to do is always with this desire to kind of improve in some way, right.
To make myself better, to make my family better, to make my work better, to make everything around me sort of better. And so these. When, what I'm doing is in alignment with that purpose. And those daily commitments are certainly in alignment with my individual purpose. It takes that friction out of it. It doesn't feel like extra work.
To do it because I actually need it in order to be able to achieve my goals and to perform at a higher level. Yeah. I mean, you're speaking my language now, right? When you get into talking about alignment of sort of action and purpose, um, that's big stuff and it's stuff going back to where we started, it's stuff that we don't sort of.
Achieved by accident. You don't happen into alignment very often, right? You have to be intentional about creating a life that isn't in alignment. And it there's a lot that goes into it. And that's where a lot of my work focuses. I think you're, you've drawn this thread for us that goes from sort of purpose to daily.
And it is about living on that thread as much as possible because the flow is easier. I mean, almost I have it reversed, right? I, for those of you who can't see what I'm doing, I've got my hand like top to bottom and it's actually almost like the top is daily and the bottom is purpose. And you want to be in a way that the water, that the river, that the, you know, that the flow is happening kind of really neatly and easily along that thread.
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I, and I think that there's, it's interesting. We're feeling a shift right now. I think happened in the world, in our society. I think for, for a long time, particularly I could identify it as you know, that earlier part of my career and, and it sort of gradually kind of got progressively more adrift, but I think that we had gotten.
A bit adrift as a collective, you know, society in that we got just so caught up in that kind of climbing up a ladder that we've forgot why we started the climb to begin. It's true. It's like the hustle became the purpose. Yes. And that's not just in case it's not clear, like hustle is not actually a purpose.
It's not, it's not a, it's not something that you can align around. I mean, we actually sort of default to aligning around the hustle, but it is not a pleasant alignment for almost anybody that I know. And there's a ton of friction that gets created when you live in that always be moving, always be doing, never be intentional.
And that's what happens when you get pulled into that hustle? I think let's situate purpose a little bit. So I just want. Even zoom out further and put this in the context of like, sort of how, how people think about wellbeing, right? And one school of thought in it is positive psychology, and it's not the only school of thought, but you and I talked a little bit about how sort of this notion of, of purpose ties into the factors that go into flourishing from the perspective of those people who.
Study positive psychology. And for those of you who don't know positive psychology, it's really the study of rather than mental illness, mental wellness. So, yes. I don't know if you want me to name the factors and we can talk about it a little bit, but I just wanted to sort of contextually situate it.
Right. And so there's this concept called PERMA, right. And it's positive emotions, engagement, relationships, meaning and achievement. Right. And so like, you can begin to see. How, what you've described along this thread lines up nicely with this structure? Probably not by accident. Well, I mean, I think it really goes to the question of like, what do we even mean when we talk about wellbeing?
Yeah. Because I think that there is. And we need to have a conversation about what does that even mean? I think if you asked 10 people, you'll get 10 different definitions of what that means to them and that, and that's okay because wellbeing in so many ways is an individual thing, but it's the alignment and connection to one's whole self and the world around them.
So I kind of think about it in this way, and this is where it links quite literally in directly to purpose. I'm of the belief that if you are here and this is, it may sound sort of like an existential type of conversation. I don't even mean it in that way. I will very simply say, if you're here on this earth, you're important.
Okay. And it means that you have something meaningful to contribute. And now what you need to do is figure out what is that thing you want to contribute? What is that reason that for you, you are here. So if you are in a state of wealth, Truly you are connected to what that is. I believe you can truly add when you are in alignment and connection with what that is, you can truly develop your potential.
You can truly be more productive in the way that you work. If you take that friction out of the. Right. And you can work more creatively and you can build more positive relationships and you can cope with those everyday stresses of life and be a little bit more resilient, right. That enables you to make that meaningful contribution.
And so you can see now that thread that we talk about from the indigenous. And how, if you, if you could expand that out to a team or to the community or to the organization or to an industry, right? I mean, you see how this goes, how it has the web. Just kind of goes out that the more people that you have that are in alignment with this.
And have that connect to their meaning of purpose and to the extent that that connects with the, um, the purpose of what it is that they're doing every day for their job or for their organization or for their clients or whatever the case may be, that all of a sudden you've got tremendous engagement.
Yes. You've got, you've got trust amongst like a group of people who are working together towards the same cause. So, um, you can see how, how and why I would say. More and more, um, leaders and organizations are getting really woke to this concept. That's right. Yeah, no, I mean it, because it is all of this, I mean, at the end of the day, we, we live in an interconnected world.
Right. And when we don't sort of intentionally weave these supportive connections that you're describing, because the image I have in my head is like this beautiful multicolored net, where my individual purpose ties into my organization's purpose of my community's purpose. Maybe not directly, but in some way it's connected to.
And so it's like this beautiful net that like supports all of us catches. All of us elevates all of us and I love. Image and that notion and it, and it's not just an image and a notion it's actually like a scientifically supported concept. Absolutely. And I think what you're saying without saying it, this succinctly is that at the end of the day, wellbeing increases our performance.
Exactly. Wellbeing, facilitates success, not the other way around. So it does not this notion of like, when you arrive, then you can have right. Because I saw some, I don't even, it was like a reel of some kind where, um, there was like some kid who is getting a valedictorian speech. I don't know if you saw this, but it was actually really beautiful.
And I thought, wow. If I had had this level of knowledge at 18, how I'm, how amazing that would have been, but he gets his valedictorian speech from high school. And he talked about how he worked so hard, you know, to be nominated for this and to be able to give this speech. And, and at the end of the day, once it was done, it was like 15 seconds of.
And then what happens in that 16, second? Yes. You're going for like the next thing. And it's like, if you achieve a certain level of success, it doesn't bring about like permanent joy or permanent happiness. You're like, you're then onto that next thing. And then what's the next thing. And what's the next thing?
How do you reverse? Yeah. And it's interesting. Cause I I'm literally just today was thinking about it and I don't, I've heard Tony Robbins say it, but I don't think he's the source of the quote. It's something to the effect of, if you're not growing, you're dying. And I, I liked, I've always liked the quote, but then I was really stopping to think about it and I was thinking, isn't that true?
Or are we allowed to sometimes be still, I mean, to your point, we're always like what's the 16th. Second. What if the 16th, second is stopping to appreciate what has happened in the previous 15 seconds, not running on to the next thing. And so it just, not that, that's why you brought that up, but it just hits on.
What's been on my mind today. Coincidentally. And I'm like, how do we balance this need to achieve this need to grow this need to evolve with also our very human need to rest. And I was like, it's almost a missed opportunity for some positive emotion because we aren't actually appreciating the thing that just the success we just have.
Like, we're not squeezing all the juice out of that lemon or orange or whatever your preferred squeezing fruit is. Well, I think what ends up happening is that it's almost like a linear way of thinking, right? That it's like, you're going from one thing to the next thing to the next thing. It's the visual of it is quite literally like climbing a ladder.
Right. Yeah. And it seems like growth, but where's the ladder actually going. And are you taking the moment that, you know, a moment that with each step that you climb. Is it still directionally in alignment with where you started to begin with and why you started to begin with, to get to where you ultimately, you know, which is an infinite, I mean, it could be going on forever.
I think it's more of like growth of your spirit as opposed to growth of where you are, like an actual physical achievement of some signs. But I think what ends up happening is. The way that it's been framed to us societally is like that the value is placed on the goal. So whether it's like getting good grades, you know, and in school to, to getting a good job, that's gonna pay you the most amount of money that's going to, then you constantly get promoted.
Like if that's not in connection or in alignment with what you feel makes you. Fulfilled and happy. None of those things actually matter. You're always going to be chasing the next thing that's right. Because yeah, that's right. And it's interesting. So as you know, I've had sort of a winding career path and I often describe it as, you know, taking a bunch of left turns and I was on a podcast and somebody asked me, well, if you took all those left turns, didn't you just come back to where you started.
And I was like, actually I think of it more like a Nautilus shell, like a spiral. And, um, and yeah, so I am like going in a bit of a circle, but what I feel like as I'm getting closer and closer to the true sort of heart of who I am and what I'm thinking. To do that purpose. Right. And so I think that's, uh, you know, and it's not that I have to like rush to the middle of the shell or there's a next thing.
It's just this natural sort of like spiraling in a positive way around a, around the thing around the heart of it. Um, which feels a lot better to me than this idea of like, you know, climbing the proverbial ladder and always having one more rung and then also like never wanting to go quote, unquote backwards.
Right, right. But I think like when we think about it now, in terms of what's going on in our industry and what, and what we're, we're hearing pretty loudly being communicated, particularly, you know, amongst like a younger generation of people that are quite literally changing the rules about what it is that they value.
There is a call to action. I think for leaders to. Do some soul searching and to be able to communicate what that purpose is for themselves and for their organization, so that people can really feel like they can get in alignment and connection. Because the more that you have the ability, I think, as, as a leader of the organization, or frankly as just a team member on, you know, within the org to.
Say, this is why we do what we do and we're here and we're willing to, you know, however you want to say at work hard or whatnot, of course, like in the environment that we're in, we need to be profitable, right. Or we need to it's I'm not saying that that's not, that's not ultimately something that organizations need to achieve.
How do you optimize your ability to, to do that is by getting people connected to why they're there in the first place. And giving them the ability to grow and develop in a way that that engagement is benefiting. The teams that they're on is benefiting the organization as a whole is benefiting their clients and is benefiting the world around them.
And most importantly, it's benefiting that. Yes. Yes. And it's that multilayered connection, right? Because you send it all the way from the world around you down to the individual and in between, it's not just the organization, right? Like it's the teams within the organization, the, or the sub-organizations, but departments or practice groups within the organization.
Right. You can have purpose connections at all of those levels. And sometimes, actually it can be sufficient to be connected, to say a team purpose or a practice group purpose. And as long. Then there is a connection from that to the organizational purpose. You don't have to maybe have an individual connection or a strong, independent individual connection to the organizational purpose.
If you feel really connected in this sort of. Closer geography. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, this has been super fun. And like I said, has hopefully introduced folks to you a little bit and to your story and to what, how you think about these issues, um, to sort of lay the groundwork for a series of conversations that we're going to have with each other and with guests about.
Wellbeing topics in the legal industry, ranging from things focused on individuals, to things focused on organizations. I think it's our intent to sort of do a deeper dive into the why of wellbeing, but also the, what people are doing. And then what's the leading edge, you know, what's coming next in this space.
So exactly. I am so excited to continue this conversation. I think that we have so much to talk about, you know, with our experience and our long experience in the, in the industry together. Um, Individuals working together. And then also with some of the guests that we're planning to have on, on the podcast.
I think it'll be amazing to hear their perspectives as well regarding, you know, just everything that we can talk about or practicing well-being. Yes. And so I think we're going to end each episode with a couple of rapid fire questions, right. And so I wanted to give you a couple and you sort of alluded to this already, but I want to ask it, what is one piece of advice you'd give your 18 year olds?
Um, I have thought about this before. I hadn't thought about this particular conversation, but I will tell you what immediately comes to my mind. I would actually tell myself to have fun. I like that answer. I would tell myself to have fun because I think my 18 year old self was. So caught up in all of the like hustle and bustle that I think I lost out that opportunity to have a little bit of joy in that process.
So I would have a little bit more fun and choose the things that really filled my soul with happiness. I love that. Well, you know, I love that answer. I mean, I think we come by it honestly as our 17, 18 year old selves, like depending on kind of how we were raised, where we were raised, where the premium was placed.
Right. It can be, we were not taught to sort of prioritize those things. Um, not many of us anyway. And so I get it. Okay. Last question. And it's, it's a broader question, but it's what is just one. Of your favorite wellbeing resources. It could be a book. It could be a podcast. It could be anything, somebody you follow it.
So it's so hard to know because you have a lot of, but you should just go with what jumps in first mini. So the first. Person who actually came to my mind was Brenae brown. I'm just so drawn to the research that she does around vulnerability and just sort of leading healthy culture that she's been such an incredible impact on me and has influenced so much of how I think about.
Not just my own personal wellbeing, but actually how my influence has the ability to truly impact a much wider audience. Um, whether that's my direct team. Or my organization or the clients who I serve or the industry that I serve the world. Like I said, the world around me and in those things. But she, she puts language in so many ways around really great ideas that I think are going to be the future of how we work and how we write.
That's a wonderful, a wonderful place to end. So thank you. Thank you, Nita for being here and doing this with me and thank you listeners for tuning in. We appreciate you. Appreciate you so much. And I cannot wait until our conversation where we can learn a little bit more. That'll be next. So, yeah. Awesome.
Thank you all so much.