Using Your Authentic Personal Brand as a Path to Purpose and Well-Being – with Sameena Safdar Kluck

“Personal brand is really key to your well-being because it's all about getting to know who you are, what you like to do. What makes you happy? What you want to spend your time doing? . . .  We don't want to be on autopilot, just going through the motions. We don't want to be disengaged from our work, from our colleagues from our clients, from our loved ones. . . . We want to be whole true, authentic selves and so I think really understanding what your personal brand is really requires you to sit down and look objectively, maybe dispassionately and passionately at different times about who you are and what you bring to the table and what you want to be doing.”

 On this episode of Practice Well(Being) we had a chance to sit down with Sameena Safdar Kluck a personal branding, social media and legal technology strategist. Prior founding Amplify Your Voice LLC in 2021, Sameena spent time as a practicing lawyer and working in large and small legal technology companies in sales and then legal marketing and branding. 

 We covered a lot of rich ground in our conversation including: 

• How living and working authentically impacts not just your wellbeing but also the people around you.
• Key questions to consider when developing and refining your personal brand. 
• The powerful intersection of authenticity and inclusion.

 We also discussed the ways that authenticity and personal brand are an important influence on and tool to be used as we navigate the Great Resignation/Global Re-Prioritization/the Great Upgrade (we all have thoughts about what it should be called!) and how being able to live and work authentically can be a huge energy saver. 

You can also find Sameena LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram and Facebook

You can connect with Nita on LinkedIn.

You can connect with Becky on LinkedIn, Instagram or at her website – www.untanglehappiness.com

Transcript

Well, hello. Hello. Hello, Sameena. What a total pleasure to be with you today? Becky and I have just been waiting for this conversation. So in full disclosure, uh, for the listeners, both, uh, Becky and I have some history with Sameena, uh, Sameena and I had somewhat of a parallel track. Uh, Early on in our careers, as we, as we kind of grew up together,  , as babies at Thomson Reuters.

And now you have started your own company called amplify your voice,  , which is just so fitting as you are leveraging your amazing values and qualities to make a tremendous difference and impact on people and on organizations. So I wanted to kind of kick off this by saying that after 20 years of more conversations with you than I could possibly endeavor to recall. I think I'm probably most excited for this one, and I've just always known you to be a very open, vulnerable, authentic person. Who has just brought that into every interaction that I had with you, but have you always kind of felt it a priority or were you even conscious about what authenticity meant for you and your career?

So what I guess what I'm asking is, can you kind of take us on a journey to how you came to start amplifier voice and the parts of you that drove you to it? And just tell us a little bit about. Sure. Sure. Well, thanks. Thanks so much for having beyond, and this I'm so excited about the podcast you both started.

I think this is really what the world needs right now. Yeah, it's interesting. I didn't really realize. I had a more open authenticity than everyone else or other people in the world until people kept commenting on it. And actually when I was a manager at Thomson Reuters, that's what my team members would say.

You know, if I made a mistake or, you know, if, if I mess something up, I wasn't someone who would try to hide it. We're kind of smooth over it. I would just throw it out there pretty quickly. And they said like, we just love how authentic you are. And at first I think they were just saying, oh, we like that, that you own your stuff.

But I kind of realized at some point, oh, you know, I think they're saying I'm so authentic that it makes them feel comfortable and being truly who they are and not worrying about needing to cover up things that may not be what I expected from them or the company expects. It's funny because I didn't use to think it was really a skill or a strength or even something I wanted, because I felt like in the corporate organizations I was in, in the past, I would hear that maybe I don't quite have executive presence or that leadership, you know, I didn't always look like.

The people in leadership at our organization in law firms in the past, I remember a partner telling me I needed to lower my voice when I was in practice. So I sound like I had more gravitas. Another partner kept telling me, I need to learn how to golf for business development. And just neither of these were things that were natural to me that were things I wanted to do.

You know, I'm not good at putting on a mask and pretending to be. So why is that so important though, to not just understand about yourself, but especially as things are kind of changing now, and there's almost like a recognition around being who you are. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, how you kind of evolved into not just getting comfortable in your own skin and sort of representing yourself authentically, but why is.

Almost like a movement that's happening in our industry and across the world. Yeah. It's, it's really interesting. I feel like it started before. COVID I feel like the generations coming up, we're like, but why, why do we have to be in this building from this time to this time? Why do we have to hide these parts of ourselves?

 You know, maybe I am neurodivergent maybe some attorney is thinking and why can't I be over. That or I am LGBT and this is just too, it is, or I am a first-generation lawyer who grew up in ward eight in Anacostia of DC. And why can't I talk about these things? Why do I have to hide them?  But I think COVID really exacerbated and accelerated that timeline once we were stuck in these walls.

 And you'll see, I'm actually talking to you today from my son's bedroom. So, well, I have a nice poster here below it. You'll see a Dundee and all kinds of anime and gamer books and everything else. But, you know, once we were stuck in these walls, so we're spending all our time. This was our only connection to the outside world, to our colleagues, to our clients, to anybody we spoke to, it was a hard to hide parts of yourself.

 You know, I never asked for 13 years. Coworkers and my working space or cats that might jump on my chair, but it happens now. But beyond that, I think people realize, what, what are we doing this all for? Why are we spending all this time and energy, trying to make sure that we measure up to something in someone's eyes that makes the ideal person like, is there really only one path to success to leadership, you know, does a lawyer, a successful lawyer only.

 Like this one shaped package.  And so I think that's part of it. People just don't want to spend that time and energy and not be treated themselves. I think people just want to be who they are and whatever are we in other, so when you say people are wanting this, I know that, you know, you've kind of evolved into this.

 Building this company amplify your voice.  And I know you have a number of clients that you're working with that are in the legal industry and in law firms in particular, tell us a little bit about amplifier voice, but then also, what is it that you're actually hearing from these people, these clients of yours and, and what they're saying about what, what it is that they're trying to bring to what they do in terms of their authentic selves.

 Sure. Absolutely. So, you know, I ended up starting this company last year because I have always, I shouldn't say that, uh, over the last decade, maybe I really embraced social media. I didn't always, I didn't realize it was important professionally and it was actually. When I got voluntold into a social selling pilot and Thomson Reuters, about a decade ago, I started really using social media more.

 And even then I was fairly resentful about it. I felt like I don't need to put myself out there on blast to the world. People need to get to know me and they'll realize how great. You know, I always thought, oh, if I'm in the hiring process and I get to the interview stage, that's half the battle for me because once people meet me, blah, blah.

 And actually it was you and I in a meeting to, at a firm where we were speaking to a new business development director and he was telling us his history,  having been at a, you know, a sports newsletter editor or a toy manufacturing company, just things that weren't really quite typical. You know, large law firm, business development and marketing backgrounds.

 And I stopped them and I said, why you have a pretty, very background and he stopped. And he looked at you and I, and he kind of cocked his head like your dog does when you're talking to them. Did it, you to look me up before you walked in here, I certainly looked you up. And that's when I think we had a deer in the headlights look at her face.

 And that's when I realized, well, if. You know, whether I want to engage with social media, if I want to cultivate my personal brand or not, it doesn't matter. People are engaging with me there. They're looking me up there. I have a personal brand, even if it's sort of grew up around me like weeds and I didn't try to hone that.

 And that's when I realized, okay, I've got to start using social media. But once I did that, I realized how it really allowed me. To share with the world who I am, what my special sauces, what strengths I bring to the table, what I do differently and better than anybody else out there. And so as I started doing that for myself and building my network and realizing this is what is really my strength and skill, I had companies and individuals come to me and say, Well, you do this for our company.

 I'd have founders of legal tech companies say, Hey, will you help me kind of hone my brand and get it out there in the legal tech world or in the legal industry or just in general. And so that's what I have been doing,  since about this time last year. And full-time since the end of the year working with, law firms, legal tech companies, nonprofits, individuals, sometimes council partners, associates.

 Sometimes business development books to really help them figure out. Okay, what is your personal brand? What do you want to be known for? If you're on jeopardy? What's the fact you want the host to tell about you? The fun fact, you know, what do you want set at your eulogy? Sounds a little morbid, but it really is about, you know, what's the impression you want to leave with people.

 You know, people think your personal brand, you have to be an influencer like Kim Kardashian or something, and know it's really. What you're known for and what people say about you when you're not in the room. And so, you know, for me, I think this all ties into how you feel about yourself, your image of yourself, what makes you happy and what you want to share with the world.

 So that's really what I've been doing. So you've started to make the connection already, but let's like really make it explicit. I mean, why are we talking about personal brand on a podcast about. Like let's make that connection for people. I think it's, like I said, I think we've liked dance around it.

 You've alluded to it, but let's, let's call it what it is. Sure. I mean, I think personal brand is really key to your wellbeing because it's all about getting to know who you are, what you like to do. What makes you happy? What you want to spend your time doing? You know, I've heard you both talk a lot about impact and purpose and how important that is and everything you do.

 You know, we don't want to be on autopilot, just going through the motions. We don't want to be disengaged from our work. From our colleagues from our clients, from our loved ones, you know, we want to be whole true, authentic selves. And so I think really understanding what your personal brand is. It really requires you to sit down and look.

Objectively, maybe dispassionately and passionately at different times about who you are and what you bring to the table and what you want to be doing. You know, I think this great resignation, great reset, great reshuffle, whatever we're calling it this week is all about people figuring out, Hey. You know what I'm doing and where I am in my life is not, not where I want to be.

This isn't sparking my joy for lack of better terms. And so, you know, really getting honest with themselves and figuring out who they are and what they want to do. And I think that really impacts your wellbeing because if you're not doing what you want or if you're. Trying to be something that isn't really what you want to do.

You're not going to have that positive wellbeing. Yeah. I've been calling it the great reprioritization, which I think fits very squarely with what you're talking about. Right. It's really tuning into what matters most to you in this season of your life and trying to live in a way that you're prioritizing that over some of the other things that can get noisy.

And I think because COVID and pandemics and working from home, Child's bedroom. He's given us a chance to take a different kind of look at that. We're having different thoughts about it, which I view as overall a good thing. But I think, you know, as I think about it from the organizational level, it's, you know, a little bit of how do we manage this process and support our people in this process, which this is a very long lead in to a question I promise.

If you'd like to object to, you know, at any point, no question I'm here for it, but no, but seriously, I saw a post. And I thought it was interesting. The post said, authenticity is a privilege and that those of us who are able to walk as our authentic selves, owe it to those of us who are not, do not have that privilege for whatever reason to normalize different.

I love that. And I've seen it in multiple kinds. Oh, sorry. Was there a question?  , like what are your thoughts on that is the question. Yeah, because I've seen that happen in multiple contexts lately.  S0mething that. I've been looking out lot lately is,  the self-promotion gap. So, you know, I've been individually coaching attorneys much more heavily since November of last year when I started doing this full-time and over and over again, I'll hear from women or I'll hear from.

Attorneys of color, I would say. oh, I don't think I've done anything important that people want to hear about. I don't want to sound like I'm oversharing or bragging, but I don't want to take up space in people's social media feeds with this. And I just, it stood out to me because I've heard this across the board.

I've heard this from young associates. I've heard this from successful legal tech founders, CEOs who started three different successful. You know, someone panicking before I was prepping them for a podcast, a legal tech podcast. They're like, I don't know if I should tell that story. I don't know that anybody wants to hear about it.

I don't know that it's important. And I was like, stop. It is important. I don't hear this from white men when I'm training them on social media personally. And then I realize it's the staff, the self promotion gap. And I think it's because if you've been in a system that has really encouraged leadership, looks like.

If it's really discouraged people talking about the things that make them different, if there's actually been active isms against you, right. There's been racism. There's been age discrimination. There's been, you know,  intersectionality of racism and sexism microaggressions. Overlooking you all these types of things.

I think it's natural that you're going to turn inward and just shut down and hide and not talk about those parts of yourself that make you different from what success has been deemed to be, you know, and whether it has or not. If you look up at the leadership of your firm and they all look like one type of person, you don't feel like you belong and you feel like, well, I'm just going to hide and shut off these parts of myself that don't look like.

I mean, it's so important, I think. And I want to hear your second point there, but I think it's so important for, for people also. I mean, as organizations are thinking about how, how can they make everybody at leadership? Not all look the same. It's important because you need people who aren't yet in leadership roles to see people who look like them.

Right, because it gives, it gives them an opportunity to see that this is something that could actually exist for me. And I could strive for it, or I could aspire to that. But if it always seems like something that's unattainable because the optics of it are that it is unattainable. That is a real problem.

So I know that organizations are looking at how can they be really trying to solve for this problem. But I didn't mean to interrupt you, go ahead and say, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. It's one thing, you know, I saw with a bunch of Howard law students talking about what, seeing the confirmation hearings for justice, that Tongy brown Jackson meant to them that some of them thought about, oh, I could be in the judiciary.

You know, representation truly matters. It's one of my favorite hashtags on. Social media is representation matters because I really think people start to think about themselves differently when they see other people there. And I think society starts to think about things differently when they see certain people in these roles.

You know, one of the things that I think is important to is just like, how are you making sure that people are seeing themselves in leadership? If there's no one that looks like them, they're now. So what are the competencies and skills and values that you're upholding? Don't really have to do with someone's background that they went to the right school or they rode crew or did lacrosse or something.

Right. But one of the things that we think are important is empathy important in our leadership, you know, are those things that other people can see themselves in way. Getting back to my second point. You know, I just was at the national association of legal placements, annual conference. And there was a lot of talk about talent retention, talent promotion, but one of the things they talked about was trying to make things more inclusive for people who are different.

A couple of sessions were specifically focused on neurodivergent attorneys and law students and how, you know, sometimes they're feeling forced to disclose. You know, condition they're dealing with to get accommodations. And a lot of the discussion was around, well, why don't we just make the hiring process very transparent for everyone so we can explain you'll be coming in here.

You'll be meeting with four attorneys. You'll be in the same conference room the whole time. Or you will be in two different conference rooms. There'll be asking you these questions you'll have time, whatever. And one of the discussions was, look, this is helpful for this group of people, but this is helpful for everyone.

Wouldn't everyone perform at their best if they knew exactly what to expect. And so let's stop focusing on, we need to make accommodations for this group or that group or whatever, and let's focus on how we can make everything as inclusive as possible so that people can be as authentic as they want to be or need to be.

But aren't feeling forced to constantly call out their differences for you to treat them in that inclusive way. So I do think what you said back to you about it being up to those of us who have the. That we can be authentic to ensure that we're helping create conditions for everyone else to be as authentic as possible.

Yeah. I mean, you know, the first thing that came to my mind,  Becky, when you asked the question and then Sameena as you started answering is because of just the structure of how most organizations are right now, uh, with sort of a heavy presence of white men leading that I love this concept of reverse mentoring.

And just reverse mentorship and organizations. Have you, is that something that you have talked about with any of your clients or that you've seen, you know, sort of play out in the industry? Absolutely.  , it's interesting. So I'm also, I handle a lot of social media for the women's bar association, DC, and I'm one of their co-chairs we're planning a diversity conference in June, specifically focused on women of color and how they have almost more of a concrete ceiling.

Ceiling other women do. They can't always see through it. So I was putting together a panel on personal branding and social media, and they of course wanted really successful women of color who had done this really well. But I actually really pushed to get a student on that panel because I had seen this student who's an American university student and she's Malaysian.

I had seen her really focus on. Building her personal brand. She had kind of a background in international human rights. She's also getting a master's in that addition to her law degree at the same time. And I was like, look, I think we have a lot to learn from her. She's already kind of figured out at a very young age, how important.

To put out there who you are and what your skills and skill set are. And I think there's a lot of older women who have been through a lot of discrimination throughout their career. And who are a little more hesitant to share about an article or they wrote or share about a fellowship they've gotten. So, yeah, I absolutely encourage that.

And I would love to see more of that in the legal industry, because I think there's a lot of things that, you know, there are generational differences. There's also just diversity of positions. And I think we've all worked in and amongst law firms for a long time. And there can really be a focus on having partners in the.

Right. And partners at this meeting and partners on this pilot who can tell us what needs to be done. But, you know, there's younger attorneys who are really innovative there's business development and marketing professionals who really have the eye on what's happening. The rest of the industry. There's paralegals who are super efficient because they're doing these tasks over and over again.

And so. You know, I think there could be mentoring in a lot of different ways. It's kind of like this whole idea and a good friend. And of course it came from, I think it was Henry Ford who said this originally, but he says, if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got.

And we're in a world right now where things are changing so much. Those expectations are changing that, you know, just because. Firms or the industry has always done something I certain way doesn't mean that that is the way that we need to continue. So this diversity of thought, getting away from the, what is it?

The status quo bias is, is so important. I think for us to make some really, truly exponential gains moving forward. And I I'll actually bring it back to. Something, you said several minutes ago about that meeting that we were a part of. I don't remember it specifically, but what I can, but I remember the timeframe fairly specifically.

And that, that was a time when firms just started kind of bringing in. Leaders from outside the legal industry to start informing the way that, that,  , their strategy or the way that they did things. So I think we're going to given the talent, you know, reshuffling or re-prioritization or resignation that's going on right now, by the way.

My term for it is the great upgrade because I think I see it as an opportunity to change, but I think that we're going to be seeing more from other people, new ideas, kind of coming in from different industries that are going to start, you know, influencing, but also challenging us to question what it is that we should really be thinking about.

How do we align our priorities around this? So, yeah, I mean, it's just kind of a comment on. My favorite quote in the same vein as the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Right. And I think people look at moments like this and they think, but what do you mean different results, but we're seeing like, we are now harvesting the fruits of the last decade, right?

This great global reprioritization. Yes, it was. COVID generated thing potentially or pandemic generated, but it is actually about what has been building up for a long period of time. And so a lot of changes required, I think, to address it. And I'm sorry, Sameena. Cause I want to hear what you have to say to yeah, no, I would absolutely agree with you.

I think COVID just accelerated what had been building. When I was at Thomson Reuters when Nita and I were at Thomson Reuters, we were doing hoteling, you know, working from home or working from wherever you wanted and dropping in the off. So you want it since 2005, like this was not new to that multinational corporation.

You know what I'm hearing in law firms and from my clients, Once physical proximity was no longer an advantage. People who weren't always getting the nod before to be on certain projects, certain matters. Certain presentations suddenly were participating in new ways and getting opportunities they hadn't before.

But something you send me to really resonated with me too. I was at legal marketing associations, annual conference just before and health and,  , Daniel and Richard Suskin, we're speaking about, you know, what's coming next and how they think that, you know, information has been pretty siloed in individual professions.

And sometimes even to some extent, gate capped in those professions, right? We have various statutes and regulations that prevent certain people from having the knowledge of using the knowledge in certain ways. And that, you know, that's something that's really been accelerated and it's not going to be so important.

Where the information is coming from, but just that we're getting the information to the people who need it when they need it. And I'm a legal profession, you know, obviously we have huge numbers of people who do not have, you know, the legal representation they need. And it's not just even impoverished people.

We have areas of the world where rule of law is not upheld and something, you know, on a more personal level. And I think we're seeing is, you know, going back to the whole impact. You know, law firms aren't really working for everyone anymore. Right. Law firms are investing hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars.

Okay. Recruiting talent, trying to retain the talent and losing talent.  We don't see associates staying long enough to become partners. We don't see diverse attorneys and women becoming partners, so right. They could, and we're seeing this new generation. Who really wants to work with people that share their values.

So, you know, ESG is the hottest topic on CEOs and boards of directors minds right now, you know, and law firms are advising on that, are they actually also focused internally on how their impact and their purpose matches their employees and their client's desired impact and purpose. That's something really interesting to me right now that's happening.

And,  I think kind of goes along with this, I think that goes towards a positive wellbeing. You don't want to go work for a company that is representing clients that you don't agree with necessarily. Well, and I think, I mean, this ties back to that authenticity too, right? It's like being able to bring all of yourself to all of your day.

Right. Yep. And where people were willing to split or even taught to split in the past that I put on this work persona, when I put my suit on and I put on this home persona when I get home, and those are two different things. I think we're finding that that is taking a lot. That takes a lot of energy.

It's not very fun. It's not very happy making. And we want to be who we are in all the places of our lives. And that's just one example, right? Of like not being willing to put my time and energy towards. Doing work that doesn't align with my values. So, absolutely. And I think that's part of it. I think, you know, for so long, we've focused on diversity, getting different people in the door, getting them hired, but not so much on what's the experience after they get.

So there was then some focus on inclusion. How do we make sure everyone's there? And now I think there's a little more focus on belonging. How do we make sure people feel like they belong, that they can be who they are, that they can see everyone fully and they can be seen, no, one's going to get upset if my kid runs in here with a pop tart emergency, because we're all used to that now, hopefully, you know, and hopefully no one's going to, you know, if I actually call out someone in a meeting for an insensitive.

You know, no one's going to label me as. You know, an angry whatever woman. I think that's really, you know, something that we're seeing now. People just don't want to spend the time and energy on hiding parts of themselves. It takes a lot away from being really fully engaged in your work. It does. So I want to, I kind of want to bring it back to that because I think, you know, we've been, we've been talking about this for the last several minutes now, and I do agree that there's almost like a collective soul searching that's going on right now about what's important to me.

And you've probably heard this before. Our listeners have probably heard something like this before, but there's a Japanese concept called ikigai. Have you heard about this? No. Oh, Sameena, you will love this. So it translates directly into reason for being, and that sounds like a very existential concept, but that's not actually what it is in the context of this discussion.

It certainly could be, but it is the meeting point of what you love. What you're good at what the world needs and what you can be paid to do. And as organizations generally are kind of going through this rethinking of what is our organizational purpose and how are we enabling our people to kind of find that alignment to our organizational purpose.

I think that well, if the guys are really interesting kind of concept to be thinking about as an individual, but authenticity is a very key component of  because your individual purpose is exactly that it's individually, it's unique to you. So finding out what it is that you Excel at and what you enjoy doing a.

Is a journey that kind of requires introspection and time. And I can see that that's something that's happening right now. And law firms are sort of trying to figure out, like, what do we do now that there is this collective, I guess, soul searching or reprioritization or reason to upgrade going on amongst, you know, our workforce?

Absolutely. I mean, I think we're seeing that because we're seeing more and more coaches. Directly in law firms than we ever have in the past. And I think we're seeing a lot more introspection on what, how are the ways people are spending their days and what makes sense? What makes them happy? You know, people are now having a steak conversations with their direct reports.

Really like that, wasn't a thing before, like people didn't as a manager or supervisor asks, like what's making you happy, you know? And Becky is telling me absolutely not if you're nodding, you know, but what are the parts of your day that are the favorite? What are the things you least like? I don't think we wanted to hear from our employees what they didn't like.

I don't think we wanted to acknowledge, you know, while they're getting paid this X amount. So that's just part of the gig. And now, especially, you know, I come from a legal tech background having been at Thompson waters or two startups since, you know, technology is allowing us to automate some of those rote tasks and things.

Maybe people didn't want to do so what are we going to do with their extra time? Is there a way to make sure that people can do the things that they really want to do that make them happy that they're authentically. Happy doing, you know, and I think it's always been a hard thing that when I think law firms have had a hard time figuring out what to do with attorneys who authentically realized they wanted to do something else, because it's been this business model of you're an associate, and then you're a council or a non-equity partner equity partner.

And that's the gig, you know, and I'm seeing that a lot just with, you know, lawyers. The students, I guess, or new attorneys coming out of law school with great tech skills, empathy skills, you know, really learned business of law skills, but feeling like they must go directly into a practicing position because they know they're not really going to be in leadership.

If they shut themselves over into this other path, that law firms haven't really treated. Given a seat at the table for, so I think you're right. It's a fascinating concept. I want to study it more now. Well, I know that we're going to be, you know, we're, we're kind of coming up on our time, but I have one more question before we go into the wrapping this up, but it's me.

And you sort of talked about, I guess, uh, a conference that you went to where you heard about what's coming next. And I've been thinking about, uh, you know, web 3.0 and. Personal brand and how we represent ourselves. I mean, what is your take on why should organizations of all kinds, but firms in particular, they really thinking about how to either support the attorneys and staff.

Around helping them to identify their personal brand. Why is that so important right now, from your perspective, whether it's from a web 3.0 perspective or otherwise, I kind of want to like bring this together in, in terms of what your take is on that. Yeah. I think it's vitally important when I'm trading attorneys and legal professionals on building your personal brand and sharing that.

I tell them. You know, your organization wants you to do this because what we're finding when people don't really understand what their skills and strengths are and what makes them happiest, they're sort of going through the motions and they're not really, it ends up being a retention problem, right?

Because you're not sticking around. If you don't really feel like you're able to be who you are and you're able to do the work you enjoy. And so, you know, I think. It's important for people to feel like they know who they are. They're able to put that out into the world. I think they're much better at their jobs.

You can just tell when someone's really doing what they were called to do. Like I could see it with both of you, right. A difference from when I was working with you in different contexts in the past. And I think. For companies, it's going to be really important. You don't want to hire, you know, people want to work with people who they like, people want to work with people who they share their values.

So you really want to understand the personal brands of the people you're considering hiring or the people on your teams to understand how they fit into the organization. And. How you fit into their lives. And if the things that you're, you know, your organizational impact and purposes about really meet what they're looking for as well, because otherwise, I think you might be looking at, okay, we've got a pivot here.

You know, like this path might not be the right one for this person. And if you knew coming in, this person is really great at these things, but they also have this passion over here. You don't want to sleep on that. You want to be touching base with them and understanding. Are they wanting to pursue that further?

Are they thinking down the line, do we have a place that they can really engage in that activity as part of our organization and how it could benefit us all? Yeah, I mean, at the end of it, what I think what you'd basically just said is that when you can shape an individual sort of purpose or what they love to do or what they feel passionate about into their work.

Not only are they more joyful and happier and better off doing what they're doing, but they're making a much bigger impact for the organization in all of the ways, whether it's from the value that they bring to their own clients in the organization, the efficiency with which they work, the teams with, which they work part of the financial bottom line.

I mean, it really. Impacts across the board and creates almost a virtuous cycle of them being more engaged and enjoying the work that they're doing and also making a much more positive impact on the business. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there's always studies out there that more diverse teams produce better business results.

I think we're going to, you know, my prediction for the future is we're going to see that more authentic employees who feel like they could be more authentic, produce, better business results as well. They're just more engaged. They're more confident. They're happier. They're not spending time trying to be something they're not or feeling like they need.

Well, it's clear to me that two things, one, we could talk about this for a long time. And two, this is a really important conversation right now, right? It's an important for individuals and it's important at the organizational level that people are tuning into this notion of the ways that we can leverage,  what I'll call in this context, our personal brand for our collective and individual sort of success and happiness.

And so I want to thank you for being here to share.  , you answered one of my questions. So we usually do rapid-fire questions and I was going to ask you sort of give me one prediction for the future, and I think you just gave it, but I want to ask one more question and it's I want short and sweet. Give me one of your favorite resources.

One of my favorite resources. It could be a book, a podcast, a tool, an activity, and exercise you pick. It's funny. This is, I guess a tool and an activity that I use and it's called a God box. Now it's not a religious thing, I suppose more a spiritual thing, but it's the concept of. When something's troubling you and, you know, mentally, you can put it on a box on a shelf in your mind.

In this case, you actually write down what that is and put it in a box to really help you kind of let go of whatever the issue is, and really let go of what the outcome of that worry is. I love that love that, and that is I'm going to have a few things I can put in that box right now. Thank you for that.

We really appreciate you being here before we sign off just real quick. Tell us the best way for people to learn more about amplify, your voice and or connect. Oh, great. So,  , I would say the best way, because I am the social media queen is on social media, so you can find me. So, I mean, a setback luck or amplify your voice on LinkedIn or Twitter.

That's probably the best way to get me. I have a website. Forthcoming, maybe it will be up and running by the time this podcast comes out. So look for that, but it'll be all over my socials. So that's the best thing. And if you're ever in Washington, DC, I would love to meet with any of the listeners because I work from home a hundred percent.

A lot of times in this 13 year old gamer boys' room. So always looking for coffee or a drink out. Awesome. And we'll put all those links in the show notes to make it easier for you listeners to find Sameena and to connect with Nita and I, if that's what you want to do. So thanks for being here. Sameena.

Thanks for being here, listeners. Thank you, Sameena. Thank you. We'll see you next time. Good to see you. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Awesome.