Revisiting JonBenét was on the Titanic

We are fast approaching the 1-year Anniversary of Conspiracy Happy Hour! Can you believe it?!

We are going back in into the archives and revisiting the episode that launched a thousand ships...or mostly likely sank a few: JonBenét was on the Titanic

On the premier episode of Conspiracy Happy Hour, Allie dives into the many theories surrounding the Titanic while Dan talks about how JonBenét still walks around us a famous singer.

Music by: Hadar Sopher
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Transcript

[00:00:00] Allie: Hey people. Welcome 
[00:00:10] Dann: and that's how we start.
[00:00:19] Dann: Welcome to a new podcast, Allie. How are you doing today? 
[00:00:23] Allie: It's a Sunday. I don't think it's the nicest Sunday, but it is Sunday. It 
[00:00:28] Dann: is a Sunday, and it's a Sunday that both of us have partaken in many days of drinking 
[00:00:33] Allie: beforehand. Yeah, two nights in a row. You know what, we didn't even say what a podcast name is yet.
[00:00:37] Allie: We're just talking. We 
[00:00:38] Dann: just talking. It's, we're a little slow today. At least I am. We're still recovering. It's okay. I just got off the, the couch, Julia, not too long ago. 
[00:00:47] Allie: So bear with us. 
[00:00:48] Dann: Yeah. Welcome to Conspiracy. Happy hour. Woohoo. Where we're gonna talk about conspiracy theories, take 
[00:00:54] Allie: a deep dive into some of the crazy ones.
[00:00:57] Allie: Things that could have happened could be [00:01:00] realistic, and some things are just fun to think about. Yeah. 
[00:01:02] Dann: Like why people think these things. It's one of the main reasons I'm into conspiracy theories. 
[00:01:08] Allie: I like the, I think the theories can be very interesting. Some of 'em are definitely extremely farfetch. But some of 'em are very real possibility.
[00:01:19] Allie: And I know my topic for today has multiple different theories surrounding it, and there are some that are extremely far fetched. And there's one that I actually might believe so I can say I 
[00:01:32] Dann: probably don't believe mine, 
[00:01:33] Allie: but, but it's still fun to think 
[00:01:34] Dann: about. It's so fun. It's a fun, I picked it for a fun one.
[00:01:36] Dann: It's like kind of light, well, it's not really light, but it's fun. And so we both think conspiracies are fun and interesting, and this is our new podcast, the End 
[00:01:50] Allie: Me? Not yet. 
[00:01:51] Dann: So do you wanna just kick us off with yours? 
[00:01:53] Allie: Yeah, yeah. I'll start. First of all, I love this theory so much. I did like hours worth of [00:02:00] research, so hopefully it actually sounds okay.
[00:02:02] Allie: I did use a couple sources online that I just wanted to mention. There were two YouTube videos that I did watch. One was Kendall. And the other is buzzfeed Unsolved network. Both, actually, ironically are called, was the Titanic sunk on purpose? Ooh mm. So what's my theory? The other few sites I did use a little bit of Wikipedia.
[00:02:25] Allie: Gotta get some of the backstory. history.com and molly brown.org. So shout out to y'all. Thank you for your help. So let's talk about the Titanic to me is one of the most interesting. Believable conspiracies out there. So let's, if you are living under a rock and you've never heard of the titan, Let me do like a little recap.
[00:02:47] Allie: The Titanic was a luxury passenger ship owned by JP Morgan, excuse me, not owned. It was financed by JP Morgan. The giant cruise ship measured about 883 in, uh, feet long, not inches, [00:03:00] feet long. It's a 
[00:03:01] Dann: tiny short, it's 
[00:03:04] Allie: a matchbox. I just think of battleship, like you just, you fitted on the pegs. Well, that's why he got away with it.
[00:03:09] Allie: 883 feet long and weighed roughly 52 point. Thousand tons, which is a pretty heavy boat. This ship headed, its debut on May 31st, 1911, and set sail for the first and last time on April 10th, 1912. Four days later into the voyage, April 14th, the Titanic struck an iceberg. That night causing the boat to completely submerge within about two hours after impact.
[00:03:36] Allie: Uh, this ended up killing about 1500 of the passengers on board, including passengers and crew. There was about 2200 passengers and crew members. The iceberg was spotted around 11:40 PM only moments before. The ship's captain had reversed the engine and made a left, and this caused a giant gash down the starboard side of the ship.
[00:03:58] Allie: And it is said today [00:04:00] that if the captain would've kept course and hit the iceberg head on, it's likely that the ship would've survived. Yeah. Yeah. So mump, that's actually something to keep in the back of your mind. Okay. For later on in the conspiracies made that left turn, I see where this is going. Need that left turn?
[00:04:15] Allie: So the Titanic only had about 20 lifeboats on board each. Each lifeboat could have held 60 people max, which if you do the math, it's about 1200 people, which is still less than half of the amount of people on board of the Titanic. That voyage, the first boat to launch only had 27 people on board. They were deploying way too early, I think.
[00:04:39] Allie: Panic in rush, and they were just dropping the boats down. Mm-hmm. So that lifeboat didn't even have half of the capacity before they could have saved so many other souls, but they didn't. 
[00:04:50] Dann: Nope, Nope. They could have saved that band that was playing that went down with the ship. 
[00:04:55] Allie: See, you know what's funny?
[00:04:55] Allie: I've never saw the movie. I know I'm probably the only one to say that, [00:05:00] but I have never seen the actual Titanic movie. I 
[00:05:02] Dann: don't know. You mean you didn't watch it when it was two VHS's, because that's how long it 
[00:05:06] Allie: was. You had to buy the value pack and switch over halfway. 
[00:05:09] Dann: Halfway. You had to switch the VHS tape to the second one to finish the movie.
[00:05:13] Allie: It was so confusing to me, cuz I remember being a kid and going to my friend's house and she had, I was like, why did you buy two Titanic movies? She's like, no, that's the second half. Same movie. But also, well, it's a good movie. I mean, I, maybe I'll, maybe I'll check it out. Dabble. Yeah. We'll see. I like the conspiracy better than the actual things.
[00:05:30] Allie: Mm-hmm. But also too, wanna point out that the US Senate and the British British Fleet Trade did h hold hearings after the incident happened. And white star officials, which the white star is the fleet of ships. So there were the three ships in this white star of the, uh, white star fleet. And it was the Britannica, the Olympic, and the Titanic.
[00:05:52] Allie: So when I talk. White star, that's what I'm referring to. So they held a hearing with the white star [00:06:00] officials, actually said that they thought this ship was unthinkable, and that if there was a collision, it would have taken hours if not days, for the ship to actually be completely submerged. And I 
[00:06:12] Dann: think that is what lends a lot of like credence to the theory.
[00:06:18] Dann: There's big ass ships. That part, they 
[00:06:20] Allie: went down in less than two hours. 
[00:06:22] Dann: They, they don't, they take forever to sink. 
[00:06:24] Allie: Yeah. And, and like at, I said, how, how did it go down so quickly? So that's also like another, it lends a lot of support to some of these conspiracies. So there are three that I have done some research on.
[00:06:38] Allie: The first one is just fun to think about the fact that this is true. Well, there is a good, good possibility that this is not. So the first theory is that a mummy's, uh, curse doomed the Titanic I'm in. Ooh, you said Mummy. I love that movie. So the Oh, the Mummy. That's a good movie. I did see [00:07:00] that one. That's good.
[00:07:00] Allie: Yeah. 
[00:07:01] Dann: It wasn't, it was only one VHS tape, but there were 
[00:07:03] Allie: multiple movies. Yeah. So the first theory goes that the mummy was obtained by a group of Englishmen in the 18 hundreds while digging in Egypt. The mummy was said to never have lived Egypt, but the case was taken to England where it caused misfortune to anyone who encountered it.
[00:07:20] Allie: So much so that this mummy was nicknamed the unlucky mummy. So how did all this happen? Well, a lot of Miss Orin had happened to anyone who had come in contact with this case. There was a disappearance, a death, an amputation, a few people who suffered such financial loss that they ended their lives in poverty.
[00:07:42] Allie: And that was only a couple of the main ones that were documented. 
[00:07:45] Dann: These were survivors of the 
[00:07:47] Allie: Titanic? No. So this is just anybody who came in contact with this particular mommy. Oh, so that was on the. We haven't gotten there yet. We have not gotten there. Stop jumping ahead. I'll let you finish. [00:08:00] It started out, so they, they figured they would try to give this mommy to the British Museum, and that's how they would rid themselves of the curse that this mommy had put upon them.
[00:08:10] Allie: Well, once it made its way to the museum, the curse did not end there. In fact, the workers at the museum and everybody who came in contact with this mommy at the museum also had reported multiple misfortunes after being within. Proximity. So this case was then sold to an American artist living in New York.
[00:08:32] Allie: And how was that case transported to America, Daniel. By plane. By plane. So close. But now it was por transported by the time Amelia 
[00:08:42] Dann: airport was flying it 
[00:08:43] Allie: over just dropped into the ocean with her.
[00:08:49] Allie: My goodness. 
[00:08:50] Dann: Oh my God. I like this theory so far. Yeah, I'm on board. 
[00:08:54] Allie: Now here is where the theories sort of takes a split. So there's one version that when the Titanic [00:09:00] sank, the Mummy sank with the Titanic. The second version is that the man who was transporting this case convinced some of the people on lifeboats to take this case with him or with them.
[00:09:12] Allie: Over to America. Once the case got to America decided that they no longer wanted it anymore because of the misfortune it brought them. Mm-hmm. So somebody else then had purchased this case who lived in England. So this case now had to travel back across the river. Ocean. Ocean, I dunno know why. Said river, ocean.
[00:09:33] Allie: And that ship had also sung. However, the, the theory becomes more realistic because one of the passengers went down with the Titanic. His name was William Steed. He was a British editor. He spent his life devoted to researching the Curse of the Mummy and claiming that once he saw the Mummy, it had caused mysterious and destruction and disaster for him, and he was spreading the [00:10:00] word.
[00:10:00] Allie: Well. He never ended up surviving the Titanic, however. Some of the passengers aboard the Titanic, they heard these rumors and these stories, and when they made it back to America. They started spreading the stories also? Well, the stories picked up so much, uh, momentum mm-hmm. That it was picked up by some of the main newspapers at the time.
[00:10:26] Allie: So Washington Post Got it. The New York Times got it. And it was not just a story in the paper, it became headlines. So that is how the rumor spread. If you ask me if my boat was sinking, making sure this case got into the PE or got to the people on lifeboats and made it to America, that would not be my priority.
[00:10:48] Allie: So, no, not with a curse. I feel, yeah, I feel yeah, exactly that. The whole reason the ship's going down. So that's one reason why I don't necessarily believe this. Also as crazy as all it sounds, there's, it's, it's just [00:11:00] there's documentation from the British Museum that this. Case has been there from 1888 to 1990.
[00:11:08] Allie: At that point, it was loaned to Australia for a short bit of time, but apparently you can go to this British museum today and visit this case. So the question is, the case that's there, is that a mock-up or is that the actual original cursed case? Mm-hmm. Is the original case in the bottom of the. Is it floating between America and England and traveling back and forth.
[00:11:33] Allie: Now, like I said, that one is probably the least believable of the three, but it is a theory. So the second theory goes that JP Morgan, who was the investor in this Starship fleet, or what is it, the white star fleet, something like that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that's what you said. Yeah. So the theory goes that he had planned the Titanic disaster to kill off, uh, rival millionaires.
[00:11:57] Allie: Jacob Astor is do [00:12:00] Strattice and Benjamin Guggenheim, which I apologize. I'm probably butchering all three of their names, but, um, well, they're probably dead. So all three of them passed away on the Titanic. So this theory stems from the fact that JP Morgan himself was supposed to be on the Titanic when it.
[00:12:15] Allie: He had canceled his trip only days prior, and the reasoning why is still unclear, not to mention there were a list of about 10 other influential people in the financing world who also had backed out of the trip only days before. So the theory goes he wanted to kill off his rival partners because they opposed the creation of the Federal Reserve.
[00:12:36] Allie: So if you don't know what the Federal Reserve is, it's basically a scheme for the rich to stay richer. So the core responsibilities of the Federal Reserve were to set the interest rates, manage the money, supply, and regulating financial markets. This theory, however, though, has been slightly debunked as.
[00:12:52] Allie: Uh, Guggenheim and Astor, they both do not have a stated [00:13:00] particular stance on the Federal Reserve. And actually, 
[00:13:03] Dann: so they weren't a part of it, but JP Morgan was a part 
[00:13:06] Allie: of it. They didn't have a stance. They would've had, they would've been a part of the, um, federal Reserve, but they didn't, they didn't necessarily, they weren't those necessarily opposing it.
[00:13:14] Allie: They weren't necessarily for it. Mm-hmm. However, stress the third man who was apparently one of Morgan's rival. He was completely for it. So, and that's documented in multiple places He was for it. So there's, it's not necessarily true that it was being sunk to because they were opposed, the Federal Reserve.
[00:13:34] Allie: So all that being said, Morgan himself was not a stupid man. So he hired Captain Edward Smith, who was the captain of the, up until the Titanic. He was well known for his sailing abilities over the course of his career. He earned the reputation for being popular with both crew members and passengers. And in fact, he was dubbed the millionaires captain because he was so well liked with the wealthy travelers.
[00:13:57] Allie: And side note too, he was the [00:14:00] captain of two of the ships in the, um, fleet. He was the, the captain for the Titanic, and he was also the captain for the Olympic, which is another mental note you should make for later on. I'm writing this down. Okay. I, I thought you. But he was a very experienced sailor also, so there's no reason why he would have sailed into waters that he know, he knew were going to be filled with ice and icebergs.
[00:14:29] Allie: Mm-hmm. And all of that. It just doesn't make sense. But there is also rumors that he was pressured to keep his speed up while to and to take shortcuts. So that is a possibility of why he was in the waters that he was in. After an investigation was, It was discovered that the Titanic was traveling too fast and had the captain slowed the ship down.
[00:14:51] Allie: The accident could have been averted. Also, to make manage worse, it was a crystal clear night. The waters were calm, so it does not make sense why the iceberg was spotted only [00:15:00] moments before impact, and there was no time to adjust course or anything like that. It should have been spotted way in the distance because there was nothing to impede with vision.
[00:15:11] Allie: Where's the Titanic 
[00:15:11] Dann: Sailing to again to. 
[00:15:14] Allie: No, it left England. It, it doc it. Um, and it was coming to America. I think it was coming somewhere in America, but it, it left England. So I'm wondering if it went, you know what, this is one thing I didn't research. I didn't know the course to be honest. I just know there was ice in the water.
[00:15:26] Allie: That's what I 
[00:15:27] Dann: was just saying. I'm, I'm like thinking, I was like, I, this, the Titanic's been a thing forever and I'm just like, is there icebergs between England and Cuz it was going to New York, wasn't it? 
[00:15:38] Allie: I honestly don't know. Yeah, that's the one re thing. I didn't. Look it up. I will look it up while I'm reading.
[00:15:43] Allie: I got you. I'll, we can fill that part in later. Yeah. The question does still remain though, did Morgan and his colleagues just get lucky and decide to cancel the trip last minute, or did they, or were they aware of the soon to be disaster that was about to take place? This next theory is my [00:16:00] absolute favorite out of any conspiracy theory, and it is to me probably the most believable.
[00:16:05] Allie: So the theory is that the tectonic never actually sunk. Let me explain. So the theory goes that the Titan, or that they decided to switch the Olympic with the Titanic because both ships looked extremely similar. Now, Let me explain why. So as I stated, the three ships were part of the white Star line, and you had the Titanic, the Olympic, and the botanic from the get-go.
[00:16:30] Allie: The Olympic had issues with the electrical system. At one point it had hit a tugboat and then to top everything off, it had a collision with another ship called The Hulk, and it was a bad accident. The US Navy actually got involved and said that the Olympic was at fault for this accident, and it was a huge insurance issue.
[00:16:50] Allie: Insurance obviously did not cover because this was the fault of the Olympic, so this ship kind of just remained unusable. It ended up the, the [00:17:00] accident caused the ship to end up like pulling left and it was, it just, it wasn't go, it couldn't sail that well anymore, so it ended up docking over in Belfast, England, and ironically, that is where the Titanic launched.
[00:17:16] Allie: So the theory goes that there was another passenger, another passenger ship out to sea that night called the SS Californian, which it was true. There was a ship out there nearby called the S Californian, however, This was also a passenger ship, and that particular night it just so happened to be sailing with no one on the ship, no one on this huge passenger ship.
[00:17:37] Allie: So there goes that. This ship was out at sea and they were supposed to be waiting for a call to come in from the Titanic. When the Titanic hit the iceberg, they were going to call over to California. And they were going to make the distress call the Californian, since it was empty, was going to take the passengers from the Titanic so everybody would be able to make it home.
[00:17:58] Allie: However, [00:18:00] unknowingly, another smaller ship called the Sampson had ended up sailing between the two ships. So the Californian had thought the Sampson was the Titanic, and the Titanic had thought the Sampson was the Californian. So when the Titanic was making their distress, The Californian did not receive it, and the Samson did receive it.
[00:18:22] Allie: However, that night, the captain was asleep since this accident took place at 1140 ish pm so the, the captain was asleep and never received the distress call. Now, I wanna point out here, if you remember that the white stars officials had actually said that they thought the Titanic was virtually unsinkable and that this ship should have taken days before completely submerge.
[00:18:45] Allie: If that was the case, they would've had plenty of time to remove all of the people from the, from the Titanic and put them onto the Californian and nobody [00:19:00] should have been, DI should have really died. So the question is, how could the boats have been switched? They're two huge boats. They probably all have their own markings on them specifically.
[00:19:09] Allie: Well, at the time, most of the people working on the Titanic and the Olympic. We're not the wealthiest of people. And JP Morgan, who was probably one of the richest men in the world at the time, he had money. So the theory goes that in order to shut them up, he had paid all of the people on the ship money to keep them quiet while secretly they decided to.
[00:19:40] Allie: Change the little, like the name on the side of the boat mm-hmm. And everything like that. Not to mention that at the time there was no security cameras, media was not as in your face as they are today. So nobody would really be documenting a ship overnight like this. Yeah. No one's 
[00:19:57] Dann: doing TikTok dances on the, 
[00:19:58] Allie: on the, on the battle of the boat.
[00:19:59] Allie: [00:20:00] Yeah. Yeah. They're like 
[00:20:00] Dann: within.
[00:20:06] Allie: Here's the so-called proof as to how the, the cal, how the Titanic could have been switched out with the Olympic. So this stuff blows my mind. Actually, on the bow of the ship, the Titanic had 14 portals, which are like the little circular windows. The align, the, the ship. The Olympic had 16 portals. The windows were also different too.
[00:20:32] Allie: The Olympic had these thin windows that were unevenly space. And had a very uni and the Titanic had very uniform looking windows. When the Titanic had launched that day, the ship had 16 portals and it had unevenly spaced windows. So right there, red flag of what ship is actually launching. Mm-hmm. Now I just wanna state it again, this is all conspiracy [00:21:00] because I don't want people to think that I am.
[00:21:02] Allie: Fact in every situation, this is just what has been researched and this is all coming from conspiracy articles, so I just need to point that out there. Now then the naming on this ship was in a slightly different position than it originally did during launch day in 1911. So the, the name Titanic on the front of the.
[00:21:27] Allie: Looked like it had moved down a few windows. Like let's, for instance, stay as the T started under window four. Mm-hmm. Well, on the day it launched, the T was under window eight just for the helmet. Yep. So now too, if, if you think back on the accident between the Hulk and the Olympic, The damage caused the Olympic to pull left.
[00:21:50] Allie: That was one of the main, the main issues that it caused. Now, there was a science teacher on board that night named Lawrence Beasley, and he kept saying that he felt the [00:22:00] Titanic was pulling to the left. The Titanic was a brand new ship. How were the science teachers? You know what I mean? I can sit in the back of a car and tell it's pulling laughter or pulling, right?
[00:22:10] Allie: So I mean, a boat, I don't. He's a science teacher. He does shit. 
[00:22:13] Dann: He does. He's like, I can, I 
[00:22:14] Allie: sense it. Yeah. He just has that sixth sense. Mm-hmm. Third eye. Mm-hmm. He was, like I said, he was very adamant that the ship kept pulling left. I don't know why or how he thought that, but that's what he thought. And if you think back, I mean, the Olympic was a ship that was pulling left.
[00:22:31] Allie: Mm-hmm. The Titanic never should have been pulling it in any direction because it was a brand new ship. This was the first time that it was actually out on waters Also too. And if you think back, the captain, he was an experienced captain. He was an experienced captain, but he had instructed when it hit the iceberg, I stated if he would've stayed straight, he would've been fine.
[00:22:52] Allie: But he had instructed his team to veer left or and reverse the engines. Maybe he didn't [00:23:00] instruct anyone to veer left. Mm-hmm. Maybe the ship veered left and that's what caused the accident. That's another theory to cover. And then if you really do wanna tie the previous conspiracy back in, there was a bunch of a-listers in the financial world that did cancel their voyage like days before the Titanic was to set sail.
[00:23:19] Allie: So why would they do that? Did they know that the ship they were on was actually the Olympic? Mm-hmm. And that they were going to be sinking the ship, which I don't think I stated yet, but they were gonna be sinking the ship for insurance money. That's the one I believe the most. Yes. So the whole, the whole conspiracy itself goes was, it was switched with the Titanic because the Olympic was now a goner.
[00:23:46] Allie: Mm-hmm. It was a ship mm-hmm. That never would've been able to sail anymore. So if they had sent this ship out, sunk this ship, they would have received the insurance money for the Titanic. And since the Titanic was a [00:24:00] luxury ship anyway, it would've received more money than if the Olympic would've sunk.
[00:24:05] Allie: Mm-hmm. So, and uh, fun fact, the Olympic is still, not today, but the Olympic had a couple more trips after the Titanic. So if the ship was deemed Unsalable anymore, how did the Olympic have A couple more. Because it was the Titanic. Yeah, it was the Titanic. So my thought is that the Olympic is at the bottom of the ocean and the Titanic lives on as the Olympic today AW band.
[00:24:38] Allie: That's a good story. I know. I feel like I skipped over a couple parts that I shouldn't have. That's why I tried to do a quick recap at the end. I'm like, I've got a lot of distractions going on right now. I don't know, you can hear jingling, but there's a cat trying to climb onto my lap and I'm like trying to read what I wrote and like deal with this situation at the same time.
[00:24:56] Dann: Yeah. There's a cat making a a nest on you at the 
[00:24:59] Allie: moment. [00:25:00] She is. She's literally climbing under the blanket. I'm like bundled up in the basement with a blanket now my cat, so, yeah. Well, that was good. 
[00:25:08] Dann: Thank you. I definitely heard the JP Morgan one and one of the, because one of the, the, one of the things that we're trying to do with this podcast is we're not trying to tell each other, which.
[00:25:22] Dann: One we're gonna do beforehand. Yes. So it's like a surprise for each other. But we do have a third party involved that is going to, can tell us if someone else is doing one, so we don't bring the same one to the table. Yeah. So 
[00:25:35] Allie: we're sending our ideas to this third party. They're just gonna be like up, you're good.
[00:25:38] Allie: Yeah. Nope. The other person's recording and one of mine was the touch that ironically, the first one that we both wanted to do was the Titanic. So he did. Dan didn't know that I was gonna be doing Titanic. I do not know what he is about to discuss though, 
[00:25:50] Dann: so, yes. Mine is a little different. There's only one theory.
[00:25:56] Dann: Okay. I'm not bringing you, I didn't bring you three today, but [00:26:00] it's like a, the, it's a, a tragedy that has a conspiracy. Oh, I love a good 
[00:26:04] Allie: tragedy. 
[00:26:06] Dann: Yes, this is a pretty well known tragedy. Are you familiar with Jean Benet Ramsey? 
[00:26:11] Allie: Yes. And I don't remember the conspiracy surrounding it, cuz I don't remember the full story, but I'm, I'm invested.
[00:26:18] Dann: So on Christmas night, 1996, so it's really not that long ago. I actually thought this happened. I was alive. I was alive too. I thought this was like in the eighties, maybe even the seven. The JonBenet 
[00:26:32] Allie: piece. Yeah. But it was, uh, it's a pod, it's been talked about for a 
[00:26:35] Dann: while. Yeah. I've, I've l listened to, you know, podcast, murder podcast and stuff about this case, but I don't think I ever remembered when it actually took place.
[00:26:42] Dann: Mm-hmm. But she was a child beauty pageant winner, but was killed in her family home in Colorado. I 
[00:26:48] Allie: feel like I'm picturing that. What's that show? It used to be on tlc. You remember like Pa Not Pageant Queens. It was about all the little kids in Southwest were like, honey Booboo got her start. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:26:58] Allie: I, I do, 
[00:26:58] Dann: I can't remember what it's called. 
[00:26:59] Allie: I can't remember. Oh, [00:27:00] toddlers and Tiaras. That's what it was. That's what I'm picturing in my head right now. Well, 
[00:27:04] Dann: she would've been on this if it was Yep. The two thousands and Yeah, and she was still alive. So this is where the conspiracy theory comes in. The conspiracy theory is that John Benet Ramsey was not killed that.
[00:27:17] Dann: Instead she was kidnapped and of course, you know, apparently as part of some type of Illuminati plan, 
[00:27:24] Allie: oh, I love a good Illuminati conspiracy. I read that. I was like, really? It's involved in everything and I'm here for it. Yeah. 
[00:27:31] Dann: I was like, you, if you literally would've taken was I was doing my research. I was like, I would've really believed this more if you just didn't say like the Illuminati.
[00:27:39] Allie: I know that kind of cheapens everything, but at the same time, it still makes it interesting. 
[00:27:44] Dann: Yes. Like I was saying, she was not, the theory is she was not killed. She was kidnapped. The, her death was staged by her parents and she later resurfaced in 2008 with the hit song. I Kissed a Girl, stop It. So, oh [00:28:00] my God.
[00:28:00] Dann: I didn't wanna, I didn't wanna read you the, the title. I titled My Little Thing. 
[00:28:04] Allie: I Fucking L We would curse it on this one, right? Yeah. Cause I just like slept already curse. 
[00:28:10] Dann: So, yes, my, the theory I brought to you today is that Katie Perry is actually Jean Benet 
[00:28:14] Allie: Ramsey. Stop it. I wouldn't see pictures of them side by side.
[00:28:18] Allie: We're gonna have to post something about that. Yeah, I didn't, 
[00:28:20] Dann: yeah, we'll po we'll post something on our Instagram to show the comparison cuz they're, when as, as I was doing research, you know, of course they're backed up. Uhhuh and when I'll get to it a little later about the comparison cuz it's pretty. I love that.
[00:28:33] Dann: So for listeners who are not, you know, privy of the details of the JonBenet Ramsey case, her full name is Jean Benet, Patricia Ramsey, and she was an American child beauty queen who was killed at the age of six in her family's home in Boulder, Colorado. Her body was also discovered with a long, handwritten ransom note.
[00:28:54] Dann: So there 
[00:28:55] Allie: was a body? Yes, there was a body. Okay. There was a body. 
[00:28:57] Dann: Her father, John found the [00:29:00] body in the basement of their. About seven hours after she had been reported missing. She sustained. It's kind of, it's really sad. 
[00:29:08] Allie: I, well, I was just gonna say, like, as the parent, why would you not, if you can't find your daughter, why would you wait seven hours before you search your basement?
[00:29:17] Allie: Like I would've searched the whole house right away. 
[00:29:19] Dann: Yeah. And that, that goes into why it was a whole messed up case. So she had sustained a broken. From a blow to the back of the head and had been strangled, a garra had, was found tied around her neck is like a noose. A garrot is more of a, A wire, a very thin 
[00:29:36] Allie: wire.
[00:29:37] Allie: Oh, that like a piano wire type of thing. Okay. Or like a cheese bar is the wire. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 
[00:29:42] Dann: Yeah. His real name is a garrot, but most people, yeah, like just call like a cheese wire or something. And that was found tied around her neck. The autopsy report stated that John Benet official cause of death was asphyxiation.
[00:29:55] Dann: Asphyxiation by strangulation associated with. [00:30:00] Cranial cerebral trauma and then her, but, and her death was ruled as a homicide. And like I said before, the case generated nationwide public and media interest, in part because her mother, Patsy Ramsey herself, was a F former beauty queen and had entered JonBenet in a series of child beauty pageants.
[00:30:20] Dann: And today to this day, the case is still unsolved and remains an open investigation with the Boulder Police Department. So that's a little background on Sean Venet. Okay. And now I'm gonna get into where the cons, the theory comes in. Yes, please do. Okay. It started on YouTube. 
[00:30:35] Allie: Oh no, you're gonna go with the Illuminati.
[00:30:37] Dann: No. Started on YouTube. 
[00:30:39] Allie: I feel like. Well, I feel like, like once YouTube started, that's when all the conspiracy theories really started piling up and happening. Yes. Cause people could voice their opinions. Yes. Just like we're voicing 
[00:30:51] Dann: our, voicing our opinions right now. So did they. So the theories start seem to have begun from a YouTube [00:31:00] video entitled, John Benet Ver Ramsey is singer Katie Perry.
[00:31:05] Dann: Straight to the point. We love that this video is posted in December, 2014. Unfortunately has been taken down since this theory. The, the theory gained traction from there with several other YouTubers making their own evidence videos. And I just did air quotes, evidence videos 
[00:31:21] Allie: cause everybody can see that 
[00:31:24] Dann: the story eventually gained enough traction for entertainment news sites to start covering.
[00:31:30] Dann: Surprisingly not until February of 2016, and Katie Perry, herself even made a reference to it at the VMAs that same year. Oh, this 
[00:31:39] Allie: year, sorry. Made a reference to her, the theory, the conspiracy. Okay. 
[00:31:43] Dann: The conspiracy theory. It was, I actually saw the video, you know Billy Eichner? You ever watched that Billy on the street?
[00:31:48] Dann: He runs up to you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was, they did a skit for on the VMAs that. And he ran up to her and was asking, are you really John Benet Ramsey. [00:32:00] Oh my God. So some of the evidence you used to support this theory includes the resemblance of Katie Perry and John Benet. As well as the resemblance.
[00:32:10] Dann: Again, in air quotes of both their sets of parents. One theorist even went, this is like, this is when you get your real, your tin tenfold hat on. Yeah. One theorist even went to great lengths to prove the similarities of their eyebrows. I mean, 
[00:32:25] Allie: that's literally hair on your face. You can change the shape of the hair any way you want.
[00:32:29] Allie: That's. 
[00:32:31] Dann: I put a note after it. I said, which is the detective work we are here for on conspiracy, happy hours. I appreciate the hustle, and the person that was doing this evidence video was YouTuber, jungle Surfer. And his video was titled John Benet Ramsey, Katie Perry. Very close. That was the title 
[00:32:48] Allie: Shout out song, jungle 
[00:32:49] Dann: Surfer.
[00:32:50] Dann: He stated this was a quote from him. You know the eyebrows don't change much on a person. You're born with your eyebrows. 
[00:32:57] Allie: He has never been a woman. He has never been a [00:33:00] woman. I think my eyebrow shape has changed five times. 
[00:33:03] Dann: Yeah. I'm also not a woman and I'm just. This person has not even watched, no, a t hadn't interacted with another woman for good measure.
[00:33:11] Dann: He also noted as, you know, this whole entertainment industry is just a char. You really don't know the truth. I was like, well, there you go. You got it. Shit. Thought. Case solved. 
[00:33:22] Allie: That's it. Another one in the books, 
[00:33:24] Dann: a different YouTuber, which I didn't put their name down. Um, unfortunately, so sorry, 
[00:33:30] Allie: you didn't say I did.
[00:33:31] Allie: Sorry at all. Yeah, sorry. Whatever. 
[00:33:34] Dann: A different YouTuber pointed. One of the lines in Katie pe, Katie Perry's memoir. I didn't even know she had one. 
[00:33:42] Allie: I'm gonna make sense that she does. 
[00:33:44] Dann: Yeah, everyone has one. She wrote in reference to writing songs at an early age, and this was a quote from her memoir, not that I was one of those stage kids.
[00:33:53] Dann: There was no Jean Benet Ramsey inside of me waiting to burst out. And that quote, that quote, has lended to people [00:34:00] stating that the Illuminati always puts clues out there that people are hiding in plain 
[00:34:05] Allie: sight. Now, do you know, was the book, was Katy Perry's memoir, was that out before or after the conspiracy sort of caught wind?
[00:34:16] Dann: That's a good 
[00:34:16] Allie: question. I don't know because like if she would've stated that in her book and then people started saying, oh, I bet. But like if it was an aftermath, then it was probably like, oh, she was trying to like just hint at it and joke about it. Yeah. So curious. 
[00:34:31] Dann: Katie, Katie Perry memoir my Google searches.
[00:34:36] Dann: Katie Perry Is John Benet 
[00:34:37] Allie: Ramsey. I know my, my thing is literally just pops up with like, oh, you might be interested in this conspiracy next. And I was like, I think I am writing that one down. I know. 
[00:34:47] Dann: Putting that one down. We'll edit all this together. Memoir Katie Perry. A biography. When does it say it?
[00:34:53] Dann: Oh, this came out in 2012. Okay. And the theory came out in 2016. Oof. So, [00:35:00] oof. 
[00:35:02] Allie: Okay. 
[00:35:02] Dann: It's 
[00:35:03] Allie: all coming together. Like at that time, she totally could have referenced toddlers and tiaras, but she strictly went on to JonBenet Ramsey. 
[00:35:11] Dann: Yeah. She's, she's part of the, she's hiding in playing. I'm onto you, Katie. 
[00:35:14] Allie: Yeah. I'm onto you.
[00:35:15] Allie: You 
[00:35:15] Dann: know, and this, and these little hints that she's dropping has allowed her to continue living. Among us in her new persona as of Katy Perry. Interesting. And that's essentially the whole conspiracy. 
[00:35:28] Allie: So I guess my question would be the body that they found, if she's alive, did they like get a read body or something like what the hell?
[00:35:39] Allie: Well, here's 
[00:35:39] Dann: the, here's what I concluded that it's a fun theory. I don't believe it. No, probably not. Yeah, like if you just do a quick Google search, you can see that Katie Perry would have been 12 years old when JonBenet was murdered. Okay. Yeah. 
[00:35:58] Allie: They're six years apart. Okay. So, I [00:36:00] mean, and you can't fake age that well.
[00:36:03] Allie: Yeah. 
[00:36:04] Dann: There's also that, uh, Katie, so before Katie Perry was Katie Perry. Her real name is Katie Hudson. And she was a Christian singer beforehand and her pop album, which was released in 2001, Perry was 17. John Benet would've only been 11, and her records and records of her being picked up and dropped by big name labels between 2001 and 2008 under kind of undermines the whole Katy Perry appearing out of nowhere idea.
[00:36:34] Dann: Okay, so yeah, just a slight, a slight look at, look at the math. It already starts to debunk the theory. But it's a fun one. 
[00:36:43] Allie: Do you know if they ever, because I can't remem, I honestly don't remember this story very well, but do you remember if who, has this murder ever been 
[00:36:51] Dann: solved? No, it's still, 
[00:36:52] Allie: it's still unsolved.
[00:36:53] Allie: Okay. I was like, I'm either thinking of another theory or what actually happened, but I think there was also a theory that it [00:37:00] was the younger brother who had killed her and that the parents were covering it. For the reasoning of like not wanting their son to go to jail also. 
[00:37:12] Dann: Well, I do know the one you're talking about, there is a younger brother in this one as well, but the young in this, in this case, the younger brother, the brother is the only one that has never been considered a suspect.
[00:37:27] Dann: Okay. Yeah. I, I, I can't remember who you're the I do the, remember the one you're talking about though. I 
[00:37:32] Allie: feel like, uh, I don't know. I'm gonna have to dig into this, this story cause I don't remember a thing about it. Yeah. But I feel like there was also like a weird theory that like Santa Claus had done it, but.
[00:37:45] Allie: Santa Claus being there was 
[00:37:46] Dann: like Santa Claus killed. That's gonna be the title of this episode. Santa Claus called Santa Claus Did It 
[00:37:50] Allie: Killed Jonne, but I feel like it was like Santa Claus, like someone dressed up like Santa Claus because it was Christmas Eve Uhhuh and he was [00:38:00] like, A neighbor from down the street who was dressed up like Santa Claus, who had come over to the house, but he was also a creepy like pedophile style.
[00:38:07] Allie: I'm sure there's something, I don't know we're gonna have to do like the next episode, the beginning of the episode. We're just gonna have to follow up with some of the stuff that we discussed. 
[00:38:15] Dann: So I just did a quick Google search of Santa Claus Max murder, and it was called the Co Covina Massacre called, it occurred in Los Angeles and he killed nine people and he was dressed as Santa.
[00:38:30] Allie: Okay. I think that's 
[00:38:31] Dann: a different story, but yeah. That is my theory. That's my serious theory. Interesting. Jean Benet Ramsey is being Katy 
[00:38:40] Allie: Perry. I'm gonna have to like, like that's just an interesting, like I love that shit. Like, I mean my, just like, like I said, it's, it's definitely more than likely it's not true, but it's a fun thing to think about.
[00:38:51] Allie: Mm-hmm. It's just like, it, it really plays with your mind sometimes. And that's how these conspiracies I. Pick up, start gaining momentum. Like I said, [00:39:00] Titanic, the one that I went over for insurance purposes, probably one of the only conspiracies I do actually believe in. Yeah. But the rest are just fun to think about, run, um, tell like the facts and the stories and the.
[00:39:14] Allie: Quote proof. Mm-hmm. Of why it could be that way. 
[00:39:17] Dann: So I just wanna, before I forget again for a third time, I just wanna say my sources. Oh yes, 
[00:39:23] Allie: please. Share. First 
[00:39:24] Dann: one was Jungle. Jungle Surfer. Jungle Surfer. Our friend. Yeah. His eyebrow game and a few other articles that I con consolidated. One was from. NYU local.com.
[00:39:35] Dann: Well, one was from the Huffington Post and another one was of course Wikipedia for the backstory of 
[00:39:40] Allie: John Bennet. I remember doing, do you remember like all of the book reports and stuff when you were a kid and your teacher's, like you're not allowed to use Wikipedia and stuff like that? Yeah, I get it.
[00:39:47] Allie: You can create your own facts on Wikipedia, but sometimes Wikipedia can be helpful with like the dates and like the very, like the things you can't screw up. So yeah. WikiEd, well, 
[00:39:58] Dann: Wikipedia's great. [00:40:00] Yeah. Wiki, we love Wikipedia. Please donate Wiki. No Wiki, how that's, I love Wiki. How they're el 
[00:40:06] Allie: illustrations or is there like a Wiki med now?
[00:40:09] Dann: Yay. Yeah, we did it. We got through fun our first 
[00:40:11] Allie: episode. I da So Dan and I were going to be researching like three topics and then we were gonna try to go over and like record each one of those episodes during this time and everything cuz we're all set up. And I messaged him yesterday morning and I.
[00:40:29] Allie: So I just spent like four hours doing my first one. I'm not even done yet. So can we hold off on the other two? He's like, yeah, I'm not done yet either. Let's hold off. So we still have to research our other two, but our first three episodes, we know what we're talking about already. So it's really exciting.
[00:40:46] Allie: It is. It'll be a surprise for you. We're not sharing the secrets and it's a surprise for each other. I know. You don't know when I'm choosing and No, the Titanic was the only one that you knew. And it's because you also had picked it. Yeah. So I was 
[00:40:59] Dann: gonna do [00:41:00] another one today, but I was like, I'll keep it light.
[00:41:03] Dann: Yeah, 
[00:41:03] Allie: keep it light in. Happy with a child, with a murder. With a child murder. I do. I will say like some of my favorite YouTube videos and stuff to watch are people covering conspiracies and I do like when they're. Necessarily like they're, they're not like just giving you one-sided facts. Mm-hmm. They're giving you facts so you can form your own opinions.
[00:41:23] Allie: Yeah. So I do enjoy those, but like I said, I just like, it plays tricks with your mind. I like thinking about, 
[00:41:31] Dann: Yeah, me too. I like that. So I like just the fact that cuz like psychology has always been interesting to me. Mm-hmm. And the, the fact that people believe these things, it's kind of funny. Yeah. And interesting just in general.
[00:41:42] Dann: But like you said, some of them, they're like, oh my God, this could be true. Like, of course someone's gonna sink a ship for insurance money. Yeah. Do I think Jean Benet Ramsey is Katie 
Perry? 
[00:41:50] Allie: No. No. But fun to think about. Fun to think about. 
[00:41:54] Dann: And there's a, there's a lot of, actually, when I was doing research, just like so many conspiracy [00:42:00] theories involving, like, I saw one today when I was looking it up and it was like, Nicki Minaj was Dr.
[00:42:05] Dann: Dre. And I was like, what? Well, like a sex change. I, I guess so. I was like, I've added, that's weird. Added to 
[00:42:12] Allie: the list. To the list. Yeah. Now we gotta talk. Yeah. I know that this is the first episode. Dan and I are very excited and we've discussed a lot of upcoming possibilities and directions that we want this to go.
[00:42:26] Allie: So hopefully as we move forward it's going to get more, I don't wanna say more interesting. I think it's already interesting, but more like, um, into like, We're gonna have themes for certain days. Mm-hmm. We're going to have, hopefully 
[00:42:40] Dann: one day we have submissions from you guys on 
[00:42:43] Allie: this. Yeah. We're gonna have to incorporate our happy hour theme and so I, I know that we had a lot of ideas for 
[00:42:50] Dann: our first episode.
[00:42:50] Dann: We're drinking coffee because we were drinking the last 
[00:42:52] Allie: two days. Yeah. Normally we'll be like a little more loose, have some like white claws in hand or something. Yeah. But [00:43:00] it's just a recovery day. Yeah. 
[00:43:01] Dann: Today was just a day of rest. My eyes. 
It 
[00:43:05] Allie: was a great weekend though. It was a good weekend. It was a great weekend.
[00:43:07] Dann: But yeah, so thank you for listening. 
[00:43:09] Allie: Yes. And you might want to check out Dan, he has another podcast also. 
[00:43:15] Dann: Yeah. We're gonna do some selfish, selfish plugs now. Yeah. Straight This. You can, I am also part of Geckos and Grottos. Mm-hmm. D and d podcast, which you can find on all social medias and all podcasting apps.
[00:43:26] Dann: Um, also part. Geckos Media in general, which is our podcasting company. 
[00:43:34] Allie: So thank you, Dan, for producing this. For producing this podcast, geckos Media. 
[00:43:39] Dann: Yeah, and you can find us@geckosmedia.com and Geckos Media on Instagram. 
[00:43:44] Allie: And I also have another podcast going brand new. It's called, tell Me I'm Not Crazy, where I just talk with friends and coworkers.
[00:43:55] Allie: Weird things that you think about daily and hope you're not [00:44:00] crazy as you think you are. Mm-hmm. And once again, that podcast is also produced by Geico's Media. Yes. 
[00:44:05] Dann: And if you wanna know how Allison and I actually met, you can listen to episode two of that cuz I was a guest. 
[00:44:11] Allie: And ironically, we are talking about our favorite beverage coffee.
[00:44:15] Allie: So full circle, you're right. This is what we do when we get together. We sit, we talk. We drink coffee. We drink coffee. Or a white claw. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 
[00:44:25] Dann: The end. Yay. We'll come out with a clever sign off. Eventually we'll get there. All right. Oh, well. Until next time. 
[00:44:32] Allie: Bye everyone. Thank you.
[00:44:39] Dann: Thank you for listening to Conspiracy Happy Hour. Be sure to listen, follow and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Have a spooky story, conspiracy or weird encounter that you would like to hear read in a future episode. Email your story to conspiracy happy hour@gmail.com and follow the show on Instagram [00:45:00] and Facebook at conspiracy Happy hour.
[00:45:03] Dann: This podcast is produced and edited by Geckos Media and is a part of the Geckos Media Network. Interested in starting your own podcast and not quite sure where to begin? Visit geckos media.com and sign up for a free 1 0 1 consultation. Until next time, see you.