The Art of Business Acquisitions with Michael Byars

Unlock the secrets to successful business acquisitions with Michael Byars, the mastermind of Acquisition CEO, revealing strategies and human elements that shape mergers and acquisitions. Discover what separates a good deal from a great one as we debunk the myth of the 'once in a lifetime' opportunity. Effective communication and asking the right questions during negotiations are highlighted, illuminating the true value of a business. We delve into the critical role of assembling a collaborative leadership team and achieving mutual benefit in deal-making while navigating NDAs and legal considerations. Whether you're looking to hone negotiation skills or curious about buying a company, Michael's invaluable insights are shared generously. This episode is a resource for entrepreneurs and business owners aiming to expand their corporate empire with confidence and skill, offering a blueprint for your next big business move.

NOTABLE QUOTES
"I enjoy doing good business with good people." – Michael
"If everyone [were] a winner, life would get boring. You got to have some losers tossed in there to remind you where you're at." – Michael
"For someone to [sell their business], they have to have a problem. And for them to do the transaction with you, you have to be the best fit to solve that problem." – Michael
"I don't want to waste their time, but I shouldn’t waste mine either." – Michael
"I'm a buyer for life." – Michael
"When I do the due diligence, I'm digging into the business, but I'm also digging into them as a person." – Michael
“It's amazing what the reputation of somebody or some business can do, no matter who the new management is." – Philip
"When I'm looking at acquisitions, I'm buying their good track record. If it's no good, I'm not going to touch it." – Michael
"If you're looking for deals, deals will come your way." – Michael
“The more you can solve the customer's problem, the better off you're going to be. People will pay to have their problems solved.” – Michael
“If you had something for 20 or 30 years, all your employees are like family. At that point, you want to make sure that whoever comes in, whoever you pass the torch to, it's going to take care of that family environment you built.” – Michael
“I always want to learn from my mistakes.” – Michael
“Business is not all about numbers. You're dealing with humans also, so figure out who they are.” – Michael
“When you get into the business and when you're running your own business, it's the people that can make or break that business.” – Philip
“I don't want to be the smartest person in the room, I want to find the smartest person for that job and I want to go back in conference with them. I've got to let them have free reign.”  – Michael
“The numbers have to be there, but it's also the person behind the numbers that matters a lot.”  – Philip

RESOURCES
Michael
Website: https://michaelbyars.com/
Website: https://acquisitionceo.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AcquisitionCEOs
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/acquisitionceo 

Philip
Digital Course: https://www.speakingsessions.com/digital-course
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamphilipsessions/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@philipsessions
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-sessions-b2986563/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therealphilipsessions

Transcript

Philip Sessions: 0:16

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Speaking Sessions podcast. I've got Michael Byars here. He's the owner of Acquisition CEO, is a business acquisition specialist and teaches on how to buy businesses with no money down. And today we're going to speak about the art of negotiations because, believe it or not, a lot of people don't understand how to negotiate with really anything in their life. But we're going to talk about business acquisition and all sorts of other negotiations within the business realm. But, Michael, welcome to the show. How you doing today.

Michael Byars : 0:53

I'm great, Philip. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you. You allow me to be on your podcast.

Philip Sessions: 0:58

Of course. Of course I know we had a reschedule a couple of times but had to get you on because you've got an incredible story when it comes to your business. So give us a little bit of a rundown because I remember when I first met you you were like, yeah, you know, I'm on this business and this business and they were like 50 businesses later and you're super humble overall. It's somebody that could be very arrogant because of the success that they've done so far. I know you'll be like, well, I'm not successful yet, but the things that you've done has been pretty incredible to be able to acquire these different companies in different areas. That really kind of filter back to helping each individual company in their own way. So give us a little rundown on your business history, background and, of course, you personally as well.

Michael Byars : 1:43

For sure. So I mean I grew up in a small little town you know, not much going on there Went off to Clemson for college, stayed there for about a year and a half and I'd had all that torture I could take. While I was there. I'd started a tech company that ended up doing very well and you know, as I was generating revenue through the tech company, I was looking for a place to put it. So I started buying some single family homes. I got about 180 single family homes now.

Michael Byars : 2:14

But when I started buying those homes I seen different opportunities around, you know. So I bought a construction company, I bought a rehab company, I bought a forestry mulching company, plumbing company, a heat and air company, property management company. I bought a lot of stuff that surrounded that so I could vertically integrate in that real estate business. Now, like you were talking about, you know I really manage all aspects of that stuff and you know, as I started doing that, I was buying other companies to grow my tech company. You know I started started at very small and you know I bought five or six other tech companies to buy the technology or to buy the employees or to buy the accounts that they had just different reasons for me to buy different companies in that sector and I like that sector.

Michael Byars : 3:03

But you know, as I went along, I end up, you know, buying weirdo stuff. You know I like boring profitable businesses, you know. And for me, you know, I bought a coffee chain in Wisconsin. I've got a partner up there, but I mean I don't even drink coffee man. So you know I bought, like I said, I just bought a ton of different stuff. I bought five companies this year. So at the end of the day, you know, it's all about the thrill of the chase. I enjoy doing good business with good people and you know other people like to. You know, go hiking for a hobby. I like to do due diligence and buy companies Right.

Philip Sessions: 3:45

Not many people say they like to do their due diligence. No doubt we don't hear that often, but that's awesome. I can definitely tell the way. Every conversation we've had it's always been very systematic. Of course, it always gets in the business and we're able to talk through several different things very quickly and from a high level perspective, which is really cool to see there. But when we talk about negotiations and you mentioned due diligence there it's definitely something that I think a lot of us struggle with.

Philip Sessions: 4:15

Something sounds really cool. I would say something like Amazon Automations or even business acquisition right now, those are really hot things that people are doing. Or arbitrage I was one of those guilty, got into that with a cryptocurrency and I probably lost at least $10,000. I feel stupid to stay still doing that because like oh, it's out of pool, like you could make a partial percentage off of this, like it sounds great. I didn't do my due diligence, though, maybe. What are some tactics that you do when it comes to, before getting to the negotiation table, doing that due diligence and making sure, like all of these things actually are what they seem to be from the very beginning.

Michael Byars : 4:56

Number one you say you felt stupid with the crypto stuff. No risk, no reward, man, so don't feel dumb Very true.

Michael Byars : 5:03

If every one of them was a winner, life would get boring. You got to have some losers tossed in there to remind you where you're at. But for me, you talk about negotiation and due diligence. For me, any kind of transaction is in order for someone to do the transaction, they have to have a problem and in order for them to do the transaction with you, you have to be the best fit to solve that problem. Does that make sense? All right, so you know, for me, I want to understand what the problem is. Are they burnout? Are they tired? Do they have some sort of health issue? Do they just want to move to Florida and hang out with their kids? If they're older, you know, have they went through a divorce? Are they going through legal proceedings? What is the deal and what is the catalyst to make these folks want to decide to sell this business now? You know I'm sure in the past they may or may not have thought about selling. You know they may or may not have had people approach them in the past. But you know, while I'm there I don't know what the problem is and you know I either want to figure out am I a good fit or am I not a good fit and I want to figure that out quick. You know I don't want to waste their time, but I should always mine either, right? So so you know, for me it's all about. You know, can I solve this person's problem? If that's who that is? Yes, do I want to try to solve this person's problem? Because some of these folks, you know problems are bigger than what I want to try to take on right, especially if they got legal proceedings or what have you.

Michael Byars : 6:38

You know, for me, like I told you earlier, I'm looking to do good business with good people. I want lifelong friends and I want, when I buy their company, if they're going to go off and do something else, I want to buy that company too. If they're a good person and they've built a good company. You know I'm a buyer for life. You know, if they build something else, it's great, perfect, sign me up. When you get ready to sell that, call me first. You know, yeah, I would say 98% of the people that I've bought something from I'm still friends with this day. You know some of them have moved off, but you know that's what I'm looking for, man I'm looking for. You know I want to buy a good business, but I also want to. You know, I'm buying a network too. You got customers and they have to be. You know, in order to have good customer base, they got to be good people.

Michael Byars : 7:29

So when I do the due diligence, I'm digging into the business, but I'm also digging into them as a person. You know, what kind of person is this guy? Is this guy just, you know, arrogant piece of trash? Or is he a good guy? Is what he has built? Is it good? Does it have legs? You know all of these things. You know I'm looking at his customers. How is he able to acquire these customers? You know, are the customers going to leave when he leaves or she leaves? You know, I'm looking at all these things. But you know that relationship with me and them and with them and the customers what really? That's what I'm going to spend a lot of time on.

Philip Sessions: 8:09

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense there, with, with looking at the customer and everything. I remember here in AD Frizzell, on his podcast, talked about one time when he started his, his supplement superstores his name of them and he went to another retail location. He's like, oh man, this is going to be great, it's already an existing location and he bought them out and then made it supplement superstore instead of whatever X supplement store and he's like, oh, this is going to be great, it's going to run and it did terrible. And eventually he ended up closing down that location because of the reputation of that previous supplement store and everything. And so it's amazing what the reputation of somebody or some business can do, no matter who the new management is and we see this all time with restaurants too, under new management and it's on their little sign out front like really, and it takes a long time to overcome that. So if you're trying to acquire a business, do you really have that kind of time that maybe you put a couple hundred thousand, a couple million you know tens of millions of dollars into acquiring it? Do you really have that much time to wait for it to get better? And so, yeah, that is part of that due diligence, and I like as well that you.

Philip Sessions: 9:19

You mentioned a can you solve a problem? Yes, okay, do you want to solve the problem? If they're in this huge lawsuit, I probably don't want to go in and solve that problem. Now, if they've got a money issue, I mean, depending on how bad the money issue is, maybe I do want to go and solve that, maybe I don't. So I like that. You have that caveat there, that second rule, that do I want to solve the problem? I think we don't think about that. We think just about, oh, can I solve it, or I just want to buy a company, and that's what we focus on first.

Michael Byars : 9:49

Yeah, I mean, you know when I'm, when I'm looking at these acquisitions, I'm buying their good track record. If it's no good, I just I'm not going to touch it, man, because you know you hear these people say, oh, this is a once in a lifetime deal. I see one of them a month. So once in a lifetime deal means nothing, you know. I mean it's just you got to understand it. If you're looking for deals, deals will come your way. I get 30 to 50 DMs or text messages a week with people looking to sell something, people looking to buy something, people looking for help and stuff like that. Man, I mean, deal flow is not the problem.

Michael Byars : 10:30

You know doing the due diligence, finding good people, you know that's, that's where it's at. And you know right back to a lot of stuff that you're talking about, about speaking. You know as these people are talking and as they're talking to the customers. You know the more you can solve the customer's problem, the better off you're going to be. You know, because people will pay to have their problems solved and as people come to you as a customer, they're looking. All they care about especially if they don't know you is can you solve their problem? And if you can, they're going to spend their money with you. If you can't, they're going to go spend their money with someone else. But they have this problem and they're looking to have it solved. So you know. The real question is you know, can you number one? Do you want to number two?

Philip Sessions: 11:15

Yeah, yeah, and I got it. I got it correct to you. You know I haven't acquired businesses. I think a lot of these probably are wanting to lifetime opportunities for them, not for you.

Michael Byars : 11:25

Right, but I mean, I was talking about, like you know, for deal flow you know for them.

Philip Sessions: 11:30

Yeah, you're, you're correct.

Michael Byars : 11:33

You know they've built. You know these companies are are their babies, right? You know they've built them for five, 10, 15, 20, 30 years. Sometimes, you know this is all they know. They got their blood, sweat and tears poured into it, and you're right. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity, because a lot of stuff that I'm buying is from older folks. They got one shot to sell it and they want to make sure that whoever buys it is the right fit too. They're doing just as much due diligence on me as I am on them, because they want to make sure that I'm the right person for the job. They want to make sure I'm going to take care of what they've built. They want to make sure I'm going to take care of their employees, and that's huge. Just think about if you had something for 20 or 30 years. All your employees are like family. At that point. You know you want to make sure that whoever comes in, whoever you pass the torch to, it's going to take care of that family environment you built.

Philip Sessions: 12:26

Yeah, I agree there. And so, when it comes to these negotiations, how does that start out? Obviously, you find this deal, whether it be through a DM or you happen to be doing some search, or whatever that looks like. But now, once you've gotten in touch with this business owner, let's start with that. How do you get in touch with that business owner to express, like, hey, I'm interested in possibly acquiring your business.

Michael Byars : 12:50

You know it depends on if they've got a broker or not. If they have a broker, you know I'll contact the broker, try to get the information. They'll normally send over a NDA you have to sign and then a CIM, which is a Confidential Information Memorandum, just kind of like a binder, for lack of better terms. It has all the information on the business. If they don't have a broker, if it's an off-market dealer, it's just somebody that comes to me and say, hey, I'd like to sell this business. Can you help me or are you interested? You know I'm always going to. I've got a checklist of what I go down with, what I need. You know I'm going to need their tax returns, I'm going to need their P&Ls, I'm going to need their balance sheet, all that type of stuff. But you know, in order to get in a negotiation, it goes right back to the same stuff we were just talking about.

Michael Byars : 13:35

What is their problem? Because that's what I got to figure out first. You know, if their problem is, this thing's headed for a cliff. And you know, maybe they sell soda and the FDA is about to outlaw sodas. Right, it's my job to find that out. Yeah, you know. Or, who knows, maybe they sell corona tests and corona virus is open, right. So you know, my job is to talk to them enough to figure out what's their motivation for selling. Why are they selling? What problem do they have? Can I solve it? Do I want to solve it?

Philip Sessions: 14:10

I like that. It seems like a lot of fact finding within there. It is yeah, so you have a checklist and everything, which I mean. How? First of all, how do you come up with that? Is it just when you came up over time, like you start asking the same things, or how did you come about this checklist?

Michael Byars : 14:24

A lot of mistakes, man, a lot of mistakes. You know I make mistakes I learn from, I write it down. I'm super big about you carrying a pen and a piece of paper with me everywhere I go, like a notebook. So you know I'm always writing notes, always, you know, trying to. You know if I have a problem, I want to be able to reference back through some of the stuff that I've written down, you know, and I want to. I always want to learn from my mistakes because I've made a lot of them, man. I mean a lot.

Michael Byars : 14:52

You know I've bought businesses that have failed. I've changed the way that I've done things after that. You know I haven't bought anything that's failed in the last probably I don't know eight or nine years. But I have bought stuff that's failed, but it's because I didn't do correct due diligence. I didn't go on the fact finding mission, I didn't research the person instead of researching the business. Yes, business is not all about numbers. A lot of it's about numbers. But you know you're dealing with humans also, so you got to figure out who they are and who you know the employees are really.

Philip Sessions: 15:27

Yeah, and that's a great point to bring up there. We think about business and we say, oh, business is business, it's just the numbers. But when you get into the business and when you're running your own business, really it's the people that really can make or break that business and, more specifically, by leadership even and even you as a business owner that can make or break. People want to work there, people working hard, things happening. So how much of your time have you spent on like the PNLs and all of the business statements versus looking at the people?

Michael Byars : 16:01

Well, I have an in-house CPA and some accountants, so not as much as if I was like a one-man show, right. But for me I'm going to spend. My guys do a real good job, right? So I'm going to spend five or 10% of my time going over the numbers and I'm going to spend 90% of the time, you know, talking to my people, my employees, my partners. You know, I want to find out.

Michael Byars : 16:30

I don't want to be the smartest person in the room, I want to find the smartest person for that job and I want to go back in conference with them. You know I've got to let them, you know, have free reign. It's not, there's no use. You know I can go down to the staffing agency and hire a $12 an hour employee file. All I'm going to do is tell everybody what to do. Right, it's a collaborative effort all the time. You know, I'm all the time running and each business not normally have has a quarterback. I'm all the time running ideas by the quarterback, but at the end of the day, you know, it's their job to make that decision and do it. You know the way they would do it, because I hired them for a reason because I felt that they were better than I am at whatever business that is.

Philip Sessions: 17:16

Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense there. And so when it comes to you know, communicating with these people and probably more of the business owner has to talk with the staff as you're in the talks of acquiring the company but what does that communication kind of look like? Is there anything that you're involved in on your side, or is that pretty much to the business owner is kind of taking care of the staff and making sure they're not all just jumping ship because who knows what's happening here, kind of thing.

Michael Byars : 17:44

Yeah, I mean that's going to be on the business owner, not on me, because a lot of times the business owner won't want the staff to know that they're making a transition or they're selling. You know we're going to want to talk to the key employees and I'm going to want to talk to, you know, the managers or any of that stuff. But you know the day to day, you know your day to day employees. That's going to be on the you know the current owner or the seller to go through and talk to them. Either you know right before the deal happens or right after it happens.

Philip Sessions: 18:20

Okay, and what are some good questions? Maybe we're getting into negotiations. What are some of the good questions that we could potentially ask these different levels of leadership or people within these companies to make sure we're doing some of that due diligence within the negotiations?

Michael Byars : 18:38

I'm going to want to know if they're going to stay, especially if they're management quality material. You know, I want to have a conversation about that. I want to see you know. Number one what do they like about what's going on? But number two what do they not like about what's going on and the things that they don't like about what's going on?

Michael Byars : 18:56

I got to figure out if that's, you know, if they have three members of management and they all three don't like the same thing, well, is that a business problem? Or is that an owner problem? Right, if I could come in there and change those things and everybody's happy. Now, you know, what does that change? Or is it something that I can't change and he can't change? And that's why the problem still exists? You know, I'm trying to figure out. Right back to the same thing what's the problem? Can I solve it? Do I want to try to solve it? You know, if the answer is no, I can't solve the problem. Maybe I don't know, maybe maybe their truck is blue and it needs to be green, right, I can solve that problem. But you know, if you know, if they're driving a truck and they want a free airplane, you know, I mean that might not be a problem I can solve for them, right?

Michael Byars : 19:52

So you got to figure out, you know yeah, yeah, and you got to figure out, you know. Or if it's one of those things that they're overworked and they need need another employee, I can solve that. But if they're, you know, if they're mad because Bobby got a promotion and they didn't get one, and you know everybody hates Bobby, you know, I got to figure out. There's just so many nuances there, right? You know I got to figure out if I want to let Bobby go or if I want to try to smooth over the water from all the ripples that Bobby's made. Maybe Bobby is the only person they're selling anything, or the person that owns a patent to whatever it is I'm buying. Maybe you can't get rid of Bobby, but maybe Bobby is the problem At times. You know, times I'll take on that challenge. Other times it's just I got to move on, right? Yeah, you got to. It all goes back to finding what everybody's problem is and you know, can you fix it? Do you want to fix it?

Philip Sessions: 20:50

Yeah, I like that. Again, that system, the same things, you know. What's the problem? Can you fix it? Do you want to fix it? So important really in any aspect of life that we go into. We're about to go into some new endeavor, for sure.

Philip Sessions: 21:04

And so, with the negotiation table, what does that kind of look like? And how, how are y'all going back and forth? Because I can imagine I mean, obviously the NDA is going to come up are pretty obvious. Most people, if they know anything, they're going to hear sign of this NDA, which obviously isn't that big of a deal. I mean, obviously, make sure you read it, because they could have some crazy, stupid stuff in there that you know you can look at this, but then you can never do any kind of business again or whatever. Yeah, I'm sure I wouldn't say something like that, but it could say something crazy. But once you get past the NDA, how, how do those negotiations start to look, and and how are you going about making sure that they favor both sides? Exactly, from you, you're not about just trying to make yourself good and make it good for you. You want to make sure it's favorable for both sides. So how are you going about that negotiation process overall?

Michael Byars : 21:54

I mean for me, really the negotiation process. You know, I've got to get through some parts of the due diligence before any of that can take place. I've got to get far enough down the line to commit to myself that this is what I want to do, that I want to try to buy this company. And you know, once, once I figure that out, then it goes to. Once I figure out that the person is a good person, the business is a good business, then most of the time it's about the numbers. You know, for me it's about, you know, this is where I need to be. You know where are you at? How do we get to a happy medium in the middle where everyone's happy? You know, because, like I told you, you know, most of these businesses I buy, the owner's going to stay with me six months to. I mean I got some of them that's been on for five years. They just they don't like business stuff, they like doing what they do. They just didn't like business stuff.

Michael Byars : 22:45

But for me it's got to be a win-win because you know, at the end of the day they don't have to lose for me to win and I don't have to lose for them to win. If it's not a win-win for everyone and we can't make it a win-win for everyone, I just I'm not interested, man, you know, because there's so many deals out there. But I mean, you know, you see on TV this, you know hard pressure back and forth stuff. If it's got to be that way, it's just not a deal for me. It's going to take too much effort and somebody's going to lose in the end and I'm just not in for one of those type deals. You know, for me the negotiation table is more like, you know, hey, I know you got something good. I want to carry on your legacy. What can we do to work together or work through the transition where your customers stay on? I'm able to continue what you've grown.

Michael Byars : 23:38

You know how does that work out. You know the numbers part. For me, numbers it's it's. The numbers just have to make sense.

Michael Byars : 23:45

And I'm, you know I'm normally going to the negotiation table with. I'm super good with numbers, I know what. You know what my bottom line is, what the most I can pay for it is. And you know, for me, I'm normally just going to throw that out there and start with, hey, this is, this is me, this is where I got to be. You said you were at X, I'm at. Why? How do we meet in the middle? How do we get to the number that I need to be at? You know what kind of creative structure can we put together where everybody wins? You know, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but for me, you know, I'm just not real big on going back and forth, and back and forth, and back and forth, because you know, at the end of the day the seller is going to feel like, you know, somebody had to lose in order for somebody else to win, and for me it's just not. It's not where I want to be, you know. I want it to be a win-win for everybody there.

Philip Sessions: 24:44

Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense and I can tell it kind of goes back to there's plenty of deals out there, so what's the point of really trying to make this work out and this? You can go just go find another deal. Why worry about that so much? And so I think that's an important thing, especially if you're on your side of the negotiation table where you're trying to acquire the company, like, hey, there's plenty of others. Now you as the business owner, that's a different story. You're trying to sell this business. It's your baby.

Philip Sessions: 25:12

It can be very difficult because you want to get the most out of it. Especially you mentioned about these older business owners that are and you got one last shot to sell my business and to try to get the most out of it. But you know, just working on that and working through something that works for everybody, I think really is the best way, because if I sell my business for an extra million dollars, it'll feel good in the moment, but I've been a lot of people that'll kind of eat at them, especially that older generation. I feel with it and really kind of eat at them. Maybe I shouldn't have done that, because that I really didn't need that extra million dollars, or I mean it was nice to have for sure, but you know it could have went a lot smoother, because I'm sure when that comes up that you stand firm on a negotiation.

Michael Byars : 25:53

Somebody always feels like crap afterwards and that's definitely not a way that you want people leaving the negotiation table Feeling like right and you know a lot of these deals that I've tried in the past to kind of stick a square peg in a round hole, for lack of better terms. You know those have been the deals that have turned out to be the worst for me in the long run. You know, if you try to force it and you're trying to push this deal to go through and seems like everything keeps falling apart, sometimes you better back up and look at this deal and say, hey, why is there? There's somebody else telling me that I should look at this. Maybe I should back up and see what I'm missing here. And 80 or 90% of the time if you go through it again, you'll find something like I understand. I understand why the deal didn't get done, why it hasn't got done so far.

Philip Sessions: 26:47

And why would you say most of the time that is? I guess it's not always one way, but most of the time when the negotiation gets delayed it keeps you keep missing, supposedly missing stuff, or just it's not closing. What would you say?

Michael Byars : 27:01

a majority of the time that reason is For me it's a majority of the time is, you know, like when you first get the numbers on a business from a seller. Out of all the deals I looked at, I can't tell you one that I looked at the numbers and at the end, at the closing table, the numbers were the same. You know, there's going to be some inflated stuff in there, there's going to be some stuff that they're trying to add back in. That's not add backs. Your job is to find that Right. And you know, for me, when it keeps getting pushed out and keeps getting pushed out and deals ultimately end up don't get done, it's because I found something else in the numbers or in the books or in somewhere. That's not what they told me, you know, and if they'll lie to me about that, what else would they lie to me about?

Philip Sessions: 27:49

That's a good point, which really goes back to the person. At the end of the day, which is a lot of what you talked about on the negotiation table. You're more worried about the people looking at making sure we're both having a win-win and making sure are the people that are not the business owner going to stay on board, are the people somebody that are good people, that they have a good reputation in their market, in their industry and everything it's really it sounds like a lot of it just falls back on the person in one way, shape or form. Yes, the numbers have to be there, but it's also the person behind the numbers that matters a lot.

Michael Byars : 28:25

You're buying what they've grown. I want to know how they've grown it to where it's at. What did they have to do to get there? Was everything above board? Some stuff not above board? Was all of it not above board? I just, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm not the cops. I don't care what they do. I just got to figure out for myself before I go write that check.

Philip Sessions: 28:48

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, because you're going to be liable for it, especially if it's something super shady. And then you bought it and you knew that was shady and you still want to head with it. Hey, now it's on your shoulders.

Michael Byars : 28:59

Well, there's ways to get around that. If you don't only do an asset purchase instead of a stock purchase, then you're not buying their liabilities. But at the end of the day, I still want to be associated with folks like that, yeah exactly. That's not me, and I don't want to be around folks like that.

Philip Sessions: 29:19

Yeah.

Philip Sessions: 29:19

So I like this negotiation really. At the end of the day, it comes down to the people and then, can you solve a problem? And do you want to solve a problem? Are really the two big things that you need to ask yourself. I guess the three things, so the two things being the problem Do you, can you solve it, do you want to solve it?

Philip Sessions: 29:35

But then also look at the people, because the people make a big difference in that negotiation and that's what I found for myself personally, not on an acquisition of businesses perspective, but just any kind of negotiation one-on-one, one-on-group it always comes down to the people and there's always some kind of personnel. They want this just because and at half time it's not even logical why it's just that's what they want, and so you've got to figure out how to work around that, work around the people and everything Such an important piece when it comes to negotiation. What's the problem? And can you solve it? Yep, yep, love it. Plain and simple. Well, people want to build, follow you, michael. They want to know more about, like maybe they want to sell business to you or be able to talk with you. I know you're doing trainings and stuff periodically on this as well. Where's the best place for them to be able to follow you, reach out to you and be able to learn more, be able to work with you?

Michael Byars : 30:29

You can find me on Facebook, Michael Byers, or I've got a website. You can go to acquisitionCEOcom or MichaelByerscom, either one.

Philip Sessions: 30:39

All right, perfect. Well, Michael, thank you so much for coming on and sharing with us about the art of negotiation to help us get better at any kind of negotiation related at the end of the day, but it's specifically business acquisition negotiation.

Michael Byars : 30:53

You're welcome. Like I said, I really appreciate the opportunity, phillip. Thank you, of course.