Empowering Leadership: Unveiling Executive Presence with Shelley Goldstein

Delve into the essence of executive presence with Shelley Goldstein, a seasoned speaker and corporate trainer, as we explore authentic communication in diverse corporate landscapes. Discover the power of embracing imperfections and vulnerabilities as catalysts for genuine leadership.

Shelley shares invaluable insights, revealing that even top executives face public speaking anxieties. We confront internal dialogues, embracing failures as stepping stones for growth and connection. Learn the art of influence and genuine connection, equipped with strategies to captivate any audience, whether in the boardroom or on stage.

NOTABLE QUOTES
"I am my first client." – Shelly
"Always remember what it's like to be a student and we all start somewhere. " – Shelly
"When it comes to speaking, I encourage mistakes. When we fault, we come across actually more confident and more trusting to our audiences." – Shelly
"The audience tends to trust somebody who's more honest, even in mistakes, than they would be telling us something that wasn't true." – Shelly
"You can command an audience and show confidence when you are okay with being imperfect." – Shelly
"We can gain the confidence of our audience when we're not completely perfect." – Philip
"Giving too much information isn't good. Pick something, stick to it, and make it relatable." – Shelly
“A great leader is somebody who listens to people, [and] engages in different conversations.” – Shelly
“Great leaders know what their weaknesses are in their fallbacks as well as their strengths, and they can involve others to participate.” – Shelly
“We're not perfect, we're not a series of talking points. Mistakes are how we innovate.” – Shelly
“Innovation happens through failure.” – Philip
“You took an L, it wasn't a loss, it was a lesson. The only way it was a loss was if you decided to just give up completely. But if you tried something, you failed, it was a lesson learned.” – Philip
“Executive presence is really about character and inspiring others to move forward.” – Shelly
“To get to where you can command rooms is by putting yourself in a mindset where it's about delivering values, about helping people, it's about listening to others and not being about yourself, being self-absorbed.” – Philip
“A self-promotion, without being self-absorbed or boasting, is to own your stories. Share the stories of yourself, your experiences with the team or working for other organizations and being confident in that.” – Shelly
“If you want to be a little bit different, have some kind of joke, but it needs to relate [to] your speech or your presentation. Have something in there that'll make them laugh a little bit.” – Philip
“Labels are what hold us back.” – Shelly
“Most people in the room feel the way you do, believe it or not, it's just a perception.” – Shelly
“Go into a room and be curious about the people that are there before you. You will have a presence that feels confident and executive-like.” – Shelly
“Take time to stop and smell the flowers. Observe everything that's around you.” – Shelly


RESOURCES
Shelley
Website: https://www.shelleygoldstein.com/resources
Website: https://www.shelleygoldstein.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shelleyagoldstein/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shelleygoldstein/
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/shelleygoldstein
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@remarkablespeaking
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/shelleyagoldstein/

Philip
Digital Course: https://www.speakingsessions.com/digital-course
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamphilipsessions/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@philipsessions
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-sessions-b2986563/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therealphilipsession

Transcript

Philip Sessions: 0:16

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Speaking Sessions podcast. I've got another speaking coach in the house with me, so, yes, you are in for double the trouble. Shelley Goldstein is a keynote speaker and corporate trainer with over 30 years of senior level management, entrepreneurship, marketing and design expertise. Shelley trains global audiences how to powerfully command executive presence and muster the art of effective speaking.

Philip Sessions: 0:46

She understands the demands of evolving workplace, with its increased emphasis on communication skills and leadership influence, and has helped hundreds of people in over 40 countries across a wide variety of industries, to develop the skills necessary to empowering remarkable speakers and lead with more impact. Shelley shares her expertise as a frequent podcast guest speaker and presenter and member of the National Speakers Association, also known as NSA. In addition, she leads interactive webinars and corporate training and is a gold tier facilitator for Google's I am Remarkable Global Initiative, and today we're going to talk about how to command executive presence as well as command any room that you go into. Before we get into what we're going to talk about today. Shelley, welcome to the show. Glad to have you here.

Shelly Goldstein: 1:40

Phillip, really good to be here. I think it's going to be a fun conversation.

Philip Sessions: 1:45

I agree this is going to be a lot of fun.

Philip Sessions: 1:46

I know we've had some conversations beforehand and everything was really excited to get you on seeing the thing that you're doing to help corporations get better at speaking and that's my endeavor as well to help more corporations as well, because I mean we said in your bio, communication is something that really everybody needs.

Philip Sessions: 2:05

But I feel corporations really everybody but corporations struggle with this because of how vast the company can get and how many levels there are within the company. And then you go global too, and now you've got different ethnicities, you've got different backgrounds of people, and now you've got to figure out how to come together and not to mention language barrier as well as English as a second language or even a third language for some countries and everything. And how do you, especially as an American, trying to speak with other countries? How do you go about making sure they understand that, without assuming that they understand every little joke you may say, or every little word that you're sharing, or you're just speaking very fast, even though it's the normal speed for you. So tell us a little bit more about yourself before we really dive in.

Shelly Goldstein: 2:53

I think one of the most incredible things that I learned is I am my first client and I kind of got that from another coach I spoke to years ago and I told I said, do you mind if I just grab that or borrow that, because it's so true when we think about how we get started in our fields, some of us were that person. I certainly, and to this day I still get nervous. I still you even mentioned. You were sort of tripping up and that's okay. That makes us human and I think it's important because understanding the process, understanding that feeling and remembering what it was like as a new speaker, that helps me connect with my clients and others. To understand that process. It's not just teach, teach, teach. It's always remember what it's like to be a student and we all start somewhere.

Philip Sessions: 3:50

Yeah, that's such a great point, like two things there. One I love the idea about, like you know, we're our first client for sure, because I can think about that with the series I'm working on for an automotive company right now and that's how it's been for me. How do I present myself to management, how do I present myself as an expert, being an engineer, to other non-engineers especially, but even other engineers that don't have the background like me, and then how do I get paid more inside of corporation and everything, and so that's actually one of the series that I'm working on right now with them, which is really neat. But then the other side to that you know not being this perfect speaker as well and really with social media, us speaking, speaking coaches, we show these things and it looks like, oh wow. You know Shelley and Phillip they're great speakers, are always going speaking places, they're doing all these trainings but we started where a lot of our clients were or they're at now.

Philip Sessions: 4:44

We started there too, where we couldn't speak well, we didn't know how to articulate our messages, and we still mess up here. It's still kind of fumbling on my words a little bit, but it happens. We're humans. You never know why something may be happening. But yeah, we're all humans in and that's really I noticed. I'd love to get your thoughts on this. But, as you've been to events before conferences, whether it be in person, virtual, whatever you see these speakers, that they're well known speakers, but then your little shock is you think somebody that's so well known would be like 100% polished, would never make a mistake or anything like that, and yet they're like everybody else and they make mistakes here. They're nothing against them, but they're, they're human, and so I'd love to hear a kind of your input on that, because we see these people on stages that are doing amazing with speaking, or even on social media, where they have amazing videos and they sound so eloquent, and yet you see them in person. It's like, oh, they're just like me. So what are your thoughts on that?

Shelly Goldstein: 5:47

Well, it's true, we're all very much alike and we all share a lot of the same challenges. When it comes to speaking, I actually encourage mistakes. There is science that shows when we err, when we fault, we come across actually more confident and more trusting to our audiences. The there's nothing wrong with being polished, knowing your material, that's totally great, and you can edit videos to cut out mistakes, and that's fine too. But if you do make mistakes in video or in person, again it's showing that you're okay to be honest with I don't know something or I messed up and use it as a joke within your material. The audience tends to trust somebody who's more honest, even in mistakes, than they would be telling us something that wasn't true.

Philip Sessions: 6:49

Yeah.

Shelly Goldstein: 6:51

So it actually is a good thing, and it's talk about executive presence. You can command an audience and show confidence when you are okay with being imperfect.

Philip Sessions: 7:01

Yeah, and not to go into politics. But I think about the Beck right now, and that's one of the things I hear from everybody is like man, he is an excellent speaker, but it's like he's so polished. I'm just not sure. And it's because of him being such a good speaker and I'm not going to say hey, he's right, he's wrong, but because of him being so polished as a speaker, it gets people questioning like is he really who he is? Is he really telling us the truth, which really goes to your point, that we can gain the confidence of our audience when we're not completely perfect and that's not to say we shouldn't strive to be perfect but, yes, having some of those human fallacies in us, where we make those little mistakes, is actually a good thing because it brings us back down to more reality, something that they can relate to, they being the audience and everything.

Shelly Goldstein: 7:56

Well, you bring up a good point Politics in general, as marketers too. So there's marketing, there's politics, there's different industries where we need to repeat certain calls to action, talking points. Nothing wrong with that. However, to your point, it's when we bring in our humanness, when we get to something that we connect to on a personal level and we help support that talking point, that fact, that quote, it certainly does drive it home as being more personable. And to your point, and your personal approach here is saying, wow, I don't know if I trust that person, so maybe that's something that would help you understand and trust that person, that personal point over a talking point.

Philip Sessions: 8:49

Yeah, which I think is such a beautiful thing, because I've had people come to me before like, okay, well, you say, share your story. But what's, what story do I share? Like I've got, I've got a long life, I've lived 30, 40, 50, 60 years. I can't share that whole thing on stage. It would take me longer than an hour for sure. And I always tell people share the part of your story that one relates with the point that you're trying to make and then two, if you can, relates with the audience, is when you can do those two things. That's the part of the story that they actually care to hear about, because it relates, it makes sense, with what you're trying to say and then relates with them as well. It helps you relate with each other, which goes to the personable thing that you're talking about.

Shelly Goldstein: 9:33

But talk, giving us too much information isn't good either, right Just? Yeah, yeah pick something, stick to it and, yes, make it relatable, of course.

Philip Sessions: 9:44

Yeah for sure. And so let's let's go to this, the commanding executive presence. And I want to break this down in two ways, Because I think when I think about commanding executive presence, I think about being somebody who's not an executive and speaking up to the executives. So I want to go that route first, and then afterwards I want to flip it and let's look at an executive. And how do they not talk down, but how do they talk on the same level to people in the company? Because I think this, this is such a contrast that happens within companies and it's it is a fine balance.

Philip Sessions: 10:19

You have to figure that out as being the we'll call them, the professional trying to speak up to the executives. It's that there is this barrier that there is, are these different levels and the political spectrum there. But then, as the executive, how do you talk to the people that are beneath you on the ladder but not talk down to them and then also not show favoritism if you're not talking to everybody as well? But I would love to hear, kind of like, what commanding executive presence looks like to you.

Shelly Goldstein: 11:41

Well, it's interesting, it's a term that some people don't even understand what it means. I've had people say what does that mean? Yet many, many, the majority of my clients and even prospects say they want, as a goal in speaking, they want to retrieve executive presence. My personal point of view is, in an organization we have executives they're typically the C suite, the entrepreneurs, the owners, the leaders.

Shelly Goldstein: 12:10

If we consider that label as an executive, then the next step is what is the characteristics of that executive? And we all have different interpretations, perceptions of what a leader might be or what we want them to be. It isn't necessarily who they are. So the perception of executive presence is a leader and, let's assume, a good one, who can take us into the future. But does that mean they're listening to our problems? Does that mean they're engaging the whole organization as a whole to move forward? Are they out for themselves? Are they out for the people? So those are very subtle. You start getting into the characteristics and the details and you might or at least I've been surprised to find that the most successful entrepreneurs I've worked with people that are worth hundreds of millions they are terrified to speak.

Philip Sessions: 13:14

I want to put a little emphasis on that real quick, because a lot of people think, yeah, you get this success and like, oh, everything's just good, everything's okay, you're super confident. No, and I've seen that too, where it almost seems like the more success they get, the more nervous they get, because they feel like they're supposed to be this person that they're really not.

Shelly Goldstein: 13:34

It doesn't matter where you're at, people are afraid to speak Exactly, and it goes back to our inner dialogue, what we're telling ourselves. Is that true? I mentioned the word perception. How are we perceiving it? And is that really what others are thinking too in the room? I believe most of us just want to get along. We just want to communicate well, and a great leader is somebody who listens to people, engages in different conversations to say can I help you be more expressive, more creative? And those things change with leaders Leadership. Leaders Leaders are different as much as the supporting staff. What can everybody offer and how can we maximize their skills to really make it a great company? Great leaders know what their weaknesses are in their fallbacks as well as their strengths, and they can involve others to participate. It's communication and it's being okay.

Shelly Goldstein: 14:42

Back to our earlier conversation that we're not perfect, that we're not a series of talking points. I mean human failure. Mistakes is how we innovate. We would not be on have landed on the moon and heading back if we didn't make mistakes. We would not have found cures for penicillin and other medicines. If it weren't for trial and error, mistakes, we wouldn't be flying in airplanes, let alone the moon. You know people were trying out aviation for decades before we actually took off on the ground. But it was mistake after mistake after mistake. And if we can embrace that as a positive thing and make that perhaps a characteristic of leadership, of executive presence, honesty and being okay with that and encouraging others to say make a mistake, because we will innovate more, I think the conversations at organizations talking to different levels of support staff might actually improve.

Philip Sessions: 15:48

Yeah, and I can see where they can be really scary, especially for those that are doing the work and making a mistake, because you don't know how the executives are going to react to that.

Shelly Goldstein: 15:59

And then when you're looking at some of these, larger companies.

Philip Sessions: 16:02

I mean there are a lot of zeros behind these projects that they're working on. And when you talk in the company's money, it's like, oh, I mean, yeah, whatever, that's a couple of million for that, no big deal. But if it was my money, like that's a couple of million.

Philip Sessions: 16:17

I can't fathom that, and so it's definitely something that's difficult to think about. And not that we should be careless and be like oh, yeah, it's just like, it's like a million dollars, this is a multi-billion dollar business, oh, who cares? It's just a million. Like no, we shouldn't be that way. But we should be trying something and like, hey, look, this is what I was trying to do. Yeah, it didn't work out, but we were trying this. We looked at it and that's where really that communication comes in, that we wanted to try this, this was our idea and really, I guess, getting that approval really just to make sure to cover your butt at the end of the day there, but really communicating that because, you're right, Innovation happens through failure.

Philip Sessions: 17:00

A lot of entrepreneurs I talked to that's one of the things we talked about Like, hey, you took an L, it wasn't a loss, it was a lesson. The only way it was a loss was if you decided I'm no longer doing that anymore, like you just give up completely. Then, yes, it's a loss, but if you tried something, you failed, it was a lesson learned. It was not a loss by any means, and that's how we really need to look at that and really communicate that. More Especially, executives need to communicate that throughout the team. Even to other executives Is when it's not our area of expertise. We're afraid of failure.

Shelly Goldstein: 17:35

So, in the discussion about executive presence, perhaps an approach to it, as opposed to being perfect, would be to be inspiring, to create that safe space where people can explore and experiment. And you're right, you don't want to carelessly make mistakes. However, one of the almost every interview includes one question about mistakes. They'll ask almost every single interview what failures have you made? Or where have you failed in an organization? Or what mistakes have you made? They're not asking you to trip you up, and there's a reason that question is in there. The answer is they want to understand your thinking process of how you can overcome that, what you've learned and how you turned it into a success, because that's how the process works. So if they're asking that question, they know there's a characteristic within you that's going to be able to help, not encourage mistakes, but encourage exploration and be okay. How to address something quickly, maybe even be proactive, see it coming and then quickly pivot. That's what they're looking for.

Shelly Goldstein: 18:52

And executive presence is really about character and inspiring others to move forward.

Philip Sessions: 19:00

And so how can we build that? We don't have that character and we're not that inspiring person to help move things forward and encourage an environment of growth and trial and error. How can we start to build that within ourselves so we can have that executive presence for ourselves?

Shelly Goldstein: 19:19

That's an interesting question because, you're right, not everybody wants that particular position or feels comfortable in that area.

Shelly Goldstein: 19:27

However, I do believe there are leaders at every level and whether you're the frontline person, say, customer service, you're representing the entire brand. That's probably one of the most important people in your organization because that's the first contact a customer, an outside person, has within your organization and that could set the tone for how the sales process is going to be, how engaging with your organization is going to be, how doing business with your organization is going to be. So that person on the frontline sales, customer service that's a good place to even say, well, how can I be a leader at this capacity? And maybe it's just listening to the clients, maybe it's sharing some really important relevant stories and information. If we dig into that as a conversation, one-on-one, that could be motivation, inspiration and executive leadership. I'm the best customer service rep, I'm the best salesperson because I'm hearing what the other party is asking me about, I understand their problems and just sharing those moments of well, we had a customer example who went through that and chose a relationship. That's executive presence at that level, any level.

Philip Sessions: 20:52

Yeah, and I like that you broke it down that way. It's not literally well, because of course, when I thought of executive presence, I'm thinking the literal executives, but yeah, that executive presence being more than that, being somebody that's going to inspire somebody to do more, so we can all have that, no matter what level we're at. For sure I like that a lot. So let's transition a little bit. So executive presence.

Philip Sessions: 21:16

But then with that usually comes like commanding rooms and, as somebody that has that leadership title, you know the CEO of a Fortune 500 company comes in. You're going to look, or you see the president or the governor or the mayor, they come in. You know oh, oh, yeah, or you name it some famous person. They come in the room. They automatically command it because, one, you don't normally see those people and two, everybody knows them and they want to be able to hear what they have to say and be able to pay attention to them. So they clearly command a room very easily. They get that attention. But when it's a quote, unquote normal person, how do we go about commanding rooms that we go into? Because I think this is a skill that's learned over time, but I think it's still something that's valuable for us as a person, as a speaker, to be able to do so. How do you go about commanding rooms?

Shelly Goldstein: 22:12

Well, it's really interesting because I would hope that those people that walk into a room and command at every level are normal. I mean, what's normal? Who's defining normal? The normal feeling is to feel uncomfortable or comfortable.

Shelly Goldstein: 22:30

So perhaps that person who can command presence and Adam Grant says this very well to some effect, that you want to be the most interested person in the room versus the most interesting when you're interesting, trying hard to have the answers, trying hard to be perfect, trying to know it all and demand the presence in the room, it falls flat because it doesn't feel authentic.

Shelly Goldstein: 23:01

But when you're approaching a situation, even a speech to an audience, and you're coming as if I want to know about you, is this how you feel? Are we sharing these ideas? That's where the command comes from. It's almost organic in a sense, because you're sharing a little bit of vulnerability, you're sharing the idea, you're okay with that. And, again, you're really interested in what your audience is going through talking with people as opposed to at them, and you can do them in a speech-like scenario. So, when we think about great leaders that we know, the Steve Jobs, people that are experts that come into a room, they're really good at just connecting and letting us know. They know how we feel, and that command is almost just an organic push.

Philip Sessions: 24:00

Oh, I like that. I agree with that and I'll add to it. I feel like when people can tell your intentions and we've heard of the term commission breath when people know you're coming in just to sell them, you're not there actually trying to help solve their problem or even just be like, hey, do they actually even need me or not? You're just there just to sell them on your product or service, they can feel that and also they just feel gross. But when you come into a room and you're there just to pour into others if you're a speaker or if you're just a person that wants to listen in to what other people have to say and value their opinion, people feel that as well. And it's just really this aura almost.

Philip Sessions: 24:45

And when we think of commanding a room, I think a lot of people mistake it for like, hey, you do this and you do that and you're literally more demanding people what they're doing. Your point fingers and you're leading and getting people. That's almost like you're orchestrating something to happen. But in my opinion it sounds like same. For you it's more about your presence and for me that's what it is. Your presence is what really commands that room.

Philip Sessions: 25:11

Because of who you are you put off, this energy that people can't help. But look at you and I know I've been in rooms before where I mean the person was behind me and all of a sudden I just kind of felt something. And I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, like I know who that is or like who is that you get really intrigued by that, and that, to me, is what that commanding the room is. It's not literally you have to be talking, telling people what to do, but just being in that room is how you get that presence. And to me, to get to where you can command rooms is by putting yourself in a mindset where it's about delivering values, about helping people, it's about listening to others and not being about yourself, being self-absorbed.

Shelly Goldstein: 25:58

Yes, and in the same way, a self-promotion, without being self-absorbed or boasting, is to own your stories.

Shelly Goldstein: 26:04

Yeah, share the stories of yourself, your experiences with the team or working for other organizations and being confident in that, like, oh, I went through this and it was really interesting, that's, you know.

Shelly Goldstein: 26:20

If you think about a scenario where you're in a social situation of people that you know really well, like old college friends or something, you're really relaxed Because you spent so much time you can be yourself, you don't feel like you have to try to put on an air, you can just share fun moments and stories and it's OK. That's where every conversation can be. Now we have to be a little, you know, discerning as to what's appropriate for different situations. But it's that level of just knowing I could be myself, I could share and express ideas and others, whether you're whatever label you have in the organization, just being that person to let the other one know it's OK, it's a safe space to share, and that gives you that presence and that grounding and curiosity to know, want to know, what's happening with the other person. How did they start? Where did they come from? What was their journey like?

Philip Sessions: 27:22

I like that and so I want to transition this a little bit. So, commanding a room and we're just using a room in general, but let's use an example. So, especially corporation, I do a lot of corporate training. I do corporate training as well For those that maybe they're not that executive but they've got to come in and present to, let's say, the board room. How can they come in there and have this really commanding presence and they'll come into this room with these executives and not be like, all right, well, here's another person coming in to do a speech or pitch us on something else, so we can give them approval. How can they come in that room and command that room? What are some tips that you would give them?

Shelly Goldstein: 28:04

Well, some great tips. If you have a prepared speech or presentation, it's a great idea to show up early and introduce yourself. Just meet the people that are going to be in the audience. Network, find out who they are, what brings them there today, where they flew in from, or what they ate for dinner last night A fabulous restaurant in town. Whatever it is. It could be a light ice breaker. Just get to kind of mingle and know a little bit of the room. So by the time you get into that place where the spotlight, so to speak, is on you, you actually know some of the people and you can actually engage with them and use that within your presentation. Because, again, the idea, the mindset that you're having a conversation and you're connecting with the people in the room is that first step of getting there early and networking.

Philip Sessions: 28:59

I like that. Yeah, networking, getting to know them. I've got a friend that he's a great public speaker and that's one of the things he likes to do when he goes to get on stages is he'll go around and talk with people and then in his speech he'll use some of that what they've said and everything to relate with them. And I like to do that same thing where I'll say something or I might point at somebody in the audience and mention something about them. And especially this part worked better for a guy to a guy, because we're always giving each other a hard time. It seems like good guy friends, that's all you do. They rag each other person and they praise them behind their backs. Why do we do that, I don't know, but if you're a guy presenting to especially if it's a room full of other male executives or you want a particular point out like one, just to kind of give them a hard time, I think that could work.

Philip Sessions: 29:47

Now, from a woman to a man that might not work as well. It depends on the relationship and how you do it there. But from a guy to guy, typically you can kind of say something a little bit and I can't give you a great example. But you might be able to point something out and it'd be OK, even if the sex doesn't really matter there at the end of the day, as long as it makes them sense. But typically, man to man, you can kind of do a little bit more razzing per se, just because that's the nature of men with other men. But that's based on something you've had knowledge about beforehand and everything.

Philip Sessions: 30:20

And then I would say the other thing too we think when we go to these meetings we've got to be super stiff and everything's got to be OK. Here's what it is, here's clear cut. But have a little joke in there. Like you said at the beginning, liven up the room, ask them some questions or bring something up about what you talked about, about their favorite restaurant and everything. They hear this same thing all the time. So if you want to be a little bit different as well, have some kind of joke, but it needs to relate with your speech or your presentation. But have something in there that'll make them laugh a little bit instead of hey, here's what we got today, what do you think? Ok, thank you, that's boring. So that's something else you can do to help command that room.

Shelly Goldstein: 31:00

Yeah, I mean I really have to say labels are what hold us back. I mean you just talked about this whole thing guy to guy. What the heck does that mean? I mean we're humans.

Shelly Goldstein: 31:15

If you take down the labels whether you're the CEO, you're the frontline customer service or whatever your sexual preferences or whatever your identity is if we take those labels away, if we close our eyes and stand in a room and just speak to the energy and the people about a particular topic, how much more open can we be, how much more understanding would they be? Because the truth is, I've had male executives come to me and feel they have tremendous pressure from women that feel they're not getting a break. I have women coming to me saying they don't feel they get a break because the men are commanding in this area. Then there are these gender neutral people that come into the room and they feel they're misunderstood. When I bring that up in a conversation to say we're all feel like we're misunderstood, no matter what pocket or space we live in. What if we realize the people in the room, wherever they're coming from, all feel the same sense of nervousness.

Shelly Goldstein: 32:27

A level of what I have to say isn't important. Somebody else is putting me up on a higher level and has a higher expectation. Okay, great, let's strip down the expectations and get it. We're all feeling nervous. Well, maybe that changes. The whole approach Suddenly brings down the stress level because you realize that other person is just like me. It's that inner dialogue of saying you know what is that really true? Again, when you realize that some of the highest, most successful executives in the world have a fear of speaking, just like a college student, there's a good place to start from ease and talk about presence and just like, okay, we're in this and yes, add a little joke, make it a little humorous. Most people in the room feel the way you do, believe it or not, it's just a perception.

Philip Sessions: 33:26

That's a great point and I stand corrected on my statement about just meld, meld, whatever there. But yes, I stand corrected there. I appreciate you bringing that point out because you're right, we do and I just did it there earlier where we put up the certain perception that's really there. That's probably not there at all as long as we're trying to come at it, not from that place of perception. So we'll just say sexist, like then. As long as we're just trying to treat a person like a person, no matter what their sex happens to be, then you're right, it should.

Philip Sessions: 34:03

And everybody, because of their own perceptions, they may perceive it one way. But I think kind of what we've been talking about with who you are as a person will come out and then if somebody is perceiving a certain way that that came off the wrong way, you definitely need to figure out how what works best for you overall and be who you are, and then that will come to light in the end. So something bad does happen. Other people will say, well, I didn't see that, or no, that's never how Philip or Shelley has ever been. So I mean, what do you talk about? Have you talked with them about that? So I appreciate you bringing that point out. You're right. Yeah, we do have those perceptions on things. For sure. We need to bring those perceptions over, just really get rid of them. Not just bring them down, but get rid of them completely and just speak Like we're speaking to a normal person or normal. I know we've used normal, but quote, unquote normal.

Shelly Goldstein: 34:59

Data analysts to data analysts. They typically have a lot of similarities in their job responsibility or the approach of, or a doctor in a specialty, say podiatrist. All podiatrists kind of understand a general, very generally speaking, a similar area. So just start from that point and move forward. You have a lot in common without anything else added into the mix.

Philip Sessions: 35:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah, great point, great point. So I know we're kind of running out of time here, but I wanted us to be able to just kind of is there like one last thing, one last tidbit that you can give us as far as like executive presence when it comes to that, just kind of going back to that real quick, any things that we can do to help ourselves have that executive presence?

Shelly Goldstein: 35:48

Yeah, don't try so hard, Just be, just be curious. Go into a room and be curious about the people that are there before you, and when we ask more questions than deliver answers, we actually have more of an interaction and the energy of nervousness turns into excitement and curiosity and you will, by that alone, have a presence that feels confident and executive, like by definition.

Philip Sessions: 36:29

I like it. I like it. Well, Shelley, I want to come to our last question here that I'd like to ask most of our guests, and that is, if you could only share one message for the rest of your life, what would that message be? One message for the rest of your life I know, I know I'm asking a lot out of a speaking coach. I had a communication coach on a while back and she was the same way. She's like. Really, that's what you got to do to me.

Shelly Goldstein: 36:53

Good question. It's really thought provoking and it definitely, you know I'm like where do I go with this? I'll leave with this. Take time to stop and smell the flowers. Observe everything that's around you. In a conversation, as a speaker, when you're in a room, observe the room Like the garden. There's a lot of flowers, but is there one flower that stands out and if so, what about? It stands out to you and you might see a lot more than it's actually there. Maybe it's more than just a garden, maybe it's more than just a room of people you're speaking to, but a specific goal or idea.

Philip Sessions: 37:39

I like that. I like that Focusing on that one thing. And it is funny how focusing on one thing ends up opening up so many things after that. I like that message a lot. Well, shelley, if people want to follow you, get to know you more, see what you have going on. Where's the best place for them to do that?

Shelly Goldstein: 37:56

Oh wow. I have a lot of great resources on my website so you can go to speakingresourcecom, Of course, remarkablespeakingcom it all goes to the same place.

Philip Sessions: 38:09

I like it.

Shelly Goldstein: 38:10

Buy me there.

Philip Sessions: 38:12

Perfect. Yeah, y'all go and check that out. Shelley is a wealth of knowledge for sure. Make sure to give her some love there on her platforms there. I'm sure her social media links are there as well, so go follow those as well, and you all go out there and share your message, because your message matters.