The Essence of Leadership: Valuing People Beyond Roles with Lisa Platske

Embark on an inspiring journey into the essence of leadership with Lisa Plaske, renowned for her transformative insights garnered from the White House to the International Alliance for Women. This episode transcends the conventional career playbook, delving deep into the soul of leadership. Discover the art of elevating team achievements by recognizing the intrinsic value of every individual, fostering a workplace culture where genuine connections thrive, and each member's potential is celebrated.

Join us as we navigate the labyrinth of authentic leadership, unveiling the four cornerstones of inspiration and uncovering the power of personal recognition. From poignant anecdotes of employees finding motivation in unexpected places to strategies for cutting through the digital clutter and fostering meaningful face-to-face interactions, we explore how effective communication lies at the heart of resilient, compassionate, and deeply connected leadership. With Lisa's Upside Thinking guiding our path, listeners are invited to embark on a journey toward leadership that drives success and nurtures every team member's well-being and growth.

NOTABLE QUOTES
"You have to see people as valuable as the capital that runs your business." – Lisa
"Leadership requires influence, and how do you influence others if you don't even like people?" – Lisa
"It's about the people, not the work." – Philip
"Management is about workflow. Leadership is about people and influence. They're very different." – Lisa
"We need people to bring all of their personalities, we don't need them to just bring the part of what they do to get the job done. When that happens, there's innovation happening, there's excitement." – Lisa
"People in their fullest form bring projects alive." – Lisa
“Sometimes we have to focus on the lowest common denominator, the lowest person to bring the rest of the group up, instead of focusing on the high achievers.” – Philip
“When we all perform better, we all start to do better.” – Philip
“Being able to understand what motivates each person is what will ensure that you maximize their productivity." – Lisa
"Understand why people show up at work and have greater compassion for that." – Lisa
"Value people and care enough to learn what's important to them, and then ensure that your actions in terms of performance awards reflect that." – Lisa
“You learn more when you walk around and see people.” – Lisa
“Leadership starts with self.” – Lisa
“Understand who you are, what you want, and why it matters to you.” – Lisa
“When we allow our ego to get in the way, whether we have the title of leader or not, that's when a lot of trouble happens in life.” – Philip
“Have a culture that allows people to say, ‘No,’ and to say, ‘I don't think so.’” – Lisa
“It doesn't matter how brilliant your process is, [or] how brilliant your initiative is if the [leaders] themselves [are] not healthy, you can't create a culture where people can thrive.” – Lisa
“The way that leadership handles things is the way that the company will go.” – Philip
“The lack of communication is what cripples companies.” – Philip
[38:12] “Comfort doesn't change the world; the world needs you and your brilliance.” – Lisa

RESOURCES
Lisa
Website: https://www.upsidethinking.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lisa.marie.platske
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lisaplatske
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisamarieplatske/
Email: Connect@UpsideThinking.com

Philip
Digital Course: https://www.speakingsessions.com/digital-course
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iamphilipsessions/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@philipsessions
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philip-sessions-b2986563/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/therealphilipse

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:16

What's going on, guys? Welcome back to another episode of the Speaking Sessions podcast. I've got Lisa Plasky here. She is an award-winning leadership expert in human behavior and has received accolades from the White House, the United States Small Business Administration and the International Alliance for Women, recognized as one of the top 100 women making a difference in the world. She has left her federal law enforcement career to open Upside Thinking, an international leadership development company, and has trained or coached over 100,000 leaders around the globe since 2005. A certified master coach, member of the Forbes Coaches Council and regular contributor to Forbescom, lisa Marie delivers presentations worldwide on her seven-step leadership model, as well as hosting private and corporate leadership retreats. When she's not traveling, she runs her business online, with limited internet access, from her home in the Bluegrass region of Kentucky, where she enjoys taking long walks with her husband and Joy, the Wonder Dog. And today we're going to dive into leadership, go figure. But before we get into that, lisa, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 1:32

Thank you. Thank you so much, Philip. I appreciate being here Looking forward to a little time.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Yeah, this is going to be a lot of fun. And every time we have a conversation, it's always one that's very deep. You can tell that you really care and want to have a conversation, and not just, hey, we're going to talk about business. It's kind of life, we talk about business, but you can really just tell that you are here in that moment, and that's one thing that I really admire about you. And every time we do have that conversation and actually let's just start there I think that's a great thing to have, especially when we think about leaders as they move further up into management, when they're talking with the professionals or non-leadership people.

Speaker 1: 2:16

A lot of times there's this feeling that I'm above you as the leader, you're beneath me and it feels like you're being talked down to. And it's not every leader, but when we think about bad leaders, that's one thing that we think about. And you, being in this leadership space for so long, I mean, how have you been able to like have that conversation where it's like we're on even playing fields? And then how do you help leaders get to where they don't put themselves above other people, that they're technically above by a title?

Speaker 2: 2:48

It's such a great question because it is the piece where I look at what the leader's belief system is like, what their core beliefs are at the center, what they value most.

Speaker 2: 3:04

And a lot of people will tell you that they value people, and yet their behavior doesn't necessarily demonstrate that, doesn't necessarily put it into action.

Speaker 2: 3:16

So if you're not somebody who understands that every human wants to be valued, appreciated and loved for who they are not for the things that they do, but for who they are then it's very difficult to be in a human capital position, which is ultimately what leadership is. You have to see people as valuable as literally the capital that runs your business, valuable as literally the capital that runs your business. And so when you talk about someone that is seeing people as being a higher than or lower than or different levels or layers, one of the reasons why the communication isn't happening is because there's a difference in whether they value the person as a person or not, like it's more. That goes beyond the communication. So for me you know I am in conversations with leaders I have to understand whether or not they really value people, first and foremost because before we can actually get to how they speak to somebody and whether or not there's a disconnect it's. Do you even like being around people?

Speaker 1: 4:32

Yeah, that's a good question to ask right to start. I mean, do you like people? Why are you leading that?

Speaker 2: 4:39

Exactly Because you could be in managing workflow or you could be in a behind the scenes position. Leadership requires influence, and how do you influence others if you don't even like people?

Speaker 1: 4:52

Yeah, exactly, and I kind of want to flip this just a little bit. You mentioned something about it's about the people, not the work. And ironically, here pretty recently I heard this comment and I feel like us as entrepreneurs, a lot of times we just we're always doing more, we're expecting more, and it's always we accomplish something and it's on to the next thing. And I heard this manager say something that, while technically the person was doing their job, when there was a compliment about this engineer that did a great job, the manager's response was why are you thanking me? They just did their job. And how crushing that was. Because I actually spoke with this person and it was.

Speaker 1: 5:43

It was pretty crushing for them. I mean, they didn't let it bother them too much, but you could tell it kind of hurt their soul a little bit because the manager, even though it was already kind of something that's been kind of happening, similar to that, it was still like, wow, that's literally what he thinks, like I'm doing this special project that has all these eyes on it, and yet the manager says, oh, he's doing his job. So what would you, what would you say for that leader? Maybe somebody right now they're a leader and maybe they've made that comment before, something kind of similar to that, where they've just treated it like somebody oh yeah, cool, you did it, let's move on to the next thing and never really kind of celebrated their accomplishment or gave that recognition on that accomplishment. What would you say to that leader to help them make sure they give that compliment and support that person as they're trying new things?

Speaker 2: 6:31

Well, I think that you articulated it beautifully, which is you said at first the manager, and so there's a very big difference between management and leadership. They're not the same. Management is about workflow, leadership is about people and influence, and they're very different. And some people are leaders who also are managers and understand how to manage workflow, and some managers will never be leaders because they don't understand people and the value that they bring. And I can honestly tell you that, as somebody who is very task oriented and very much interested in how work gets done, how quickly it gets done, whether or not it's operationally effective. What are the best metrics to measure that?

Speaker 2: 7:20

I'm somebody who would have said that statement erroneously 25 years ago and been like they're just doing their job, they get a salary, that's what they're paid for, and that would have been my mindset, because for me, I was a manager, I was a manager of workflow and until I took the journey into leadership and really understood people and understood the gifts they bring, the talents they bring, the abilities they bring and the whole package that actually contributes, I didn't understand that that's actually a really demotivating thing to say. There's you know, you've brought up several things that have me think about research and there's four elements in to what a great leader is. According to research in gosh, it's been been done in the 90s, 1990s and the 2000s and the next decade. So it's the same body of research and what's been come up with is that the number four characteristic that people want to be able to work with somebody is competence, and that competence is not necessarily their ability to do the job, it's rather the competence for the whole totality.

Speaker 2: 8:45

So, like we need people to bring all of their personalities, we don't need them to just bring the part of what they do to get the job done. We need them to bring all of who they are to work. And when that happens, like work teams are just like they're firing stuff off. There's innovation happening, there's excitement and I'm sure you've been part of a team like that and I've been part of teams like that and I've been part of the opposite, so I've actually been that guy. I'm sad to say I'm not proud of it. That has been that demotivator who didn't get that people in their fullest form bring is what brings projects alive, is what makes, makes work come to life.

Speaker 1: 10:18

Yeah, and bringing out the best in those people. So what's maybe like one or two things that you would do to help us bring out that best in people? Because that's a tough thing and obviously this is very wide open. Everybody's a little bit different, so I need more than just a. It depends. If you got a good example, would love to hear that.

Speaker 1: 10:38

I think that's a hard thing to do, and then maybe with this as well, because sometimes we have to focus on that the lowest common denominator, if you will, the lowest person to bring the rest of the group up, instead of focusing on the high achievers. That seems to be where most leaders go. They want to focus on the problem child, the one that's falling behind the most, instead of focusing on the ones that are doing the best and everything, and so that's a whole nother rabbit hole. We could go down right there. But how do we motivate individuals on the team to encourage them to perform better? Because when we all perform better, we all start to do better and, like you said, it's just this whole cycle of like. Everybody starts to perform above and beyond what they thought they could do.

Speaker 2: 11:25

Well, you're right, it's detrimental. When you're focused on the guy that's the low performer, you're spending, you know, the best part of your assets, your time on that which is broken, that just that doesn't make any sense. And yet too often organizations do that or the leaders in those organizations spend time and you want something tangible and the answer to that is curiosity. That's the element that has got to be present. So you know for me, when I was first line supervisor, that when I worked in law enforcement, every single person on my team had something different that motivated them. Some people were motivated by family, some people were motivated by interesting work, some people were motivated by being challenged. Being able to understand what motivates each person is what will ensure that you maximize their productivity and you actually have whatever needs to be accomplished to be able to move forward. So it's not a one-size-fits-all approach, which is the reason why curiosity and asking great questions matters. There's a story years ago of a gentleman who was a top performer in an organization you know the number one guy and every year the company had almost like a sales banquet, if you will, but it was, you know, large and a lot of money went out and they would conclude the banquet, the evening gala, with this top award. I was very coveted and one year the gentleman who was the top performer and walked up on stage and it was a very demotivating moment for the company because when he got the award and was asked to say a few words, he said oh great, another, you know trophy. And it was sort of like the company had spent 10s of 1000s of dollars for this event, if not hundreds of 1000s of dollars for this event, only to have the last thing in people's mind like oh great, another, you know another trophy. This sort of like not the, wow, not the, you know the effusive language of saying how great the company is and how you know, amazing and this opportunity and being recognized.

Speaker 2: 13:57

And so the next year, when it was clear that this gentleman was going to be receiving this award again, the organization and the manager his manager spent time asking questions, getting curious, finding out what was important to him and what she learned about him is that he had two small children that were the love of his life, is that he had two small children that were the love of his life and that where he spent his time and why he produced so so much it moves me to tears.

Speaker 2: 14:30

Why he showed up at work and worked so hard was for the legacy for his family, and so what she did is she hired a photographer and the photographer took a family, a portrait of the children the children, not a family, not the four of them, but took a photo of the, of the, the children, and they had a plaque made at the bottom that had his top performance instead of the standard trophy and then she made arrangements so that the mother and children could be behind stage, and when they revealed the large award, what they revealed was the photo of the children and the family came out on stage and there wasn't a dry eye in the building when that happened, and his conversation about the organization and how much it meant to him left a very different feeling at the end of the awards banquet.

Speaker 2: 15:30

And so leaders that actually take the time to understand that everyone is not motivated by the same things Some people getting that award would be a really big deal, for other people Not so much. If we understand why people show up at work and want to perform or not, and have greater compassion for that, the best leaders understand an employee like that. Guess what happened the next year and the year after, guess what changed in terms of the culture of that department, just simply by a leader being curious about how to be able to make a difference and what mattered most to that individual. I could give you stories like that in team members of my own when I was in law enforcement and team members today. And yet in a world where we're so busy, everyone's busy. To do that means you have to first value people and care enough to learn what's important to them and then ensure that your actions in terms of performance awards reflect that.

Speaker 1: 16:44

I like that being curious and when I think about this curiosity and the way that you frame this, it was really more of the leader went to the employee, so to speak, and from my experience, what I've seen more often, it seems that when people get elevated to this leader or manager status, they now feel like everybody needs to come to them, everybody needs to report to them, instead of the leader going to their team and, like you said, it's human capital and we have to go, approach them as leaders and ask the questions and get very curious, because if we just sit back at our high chair and wait for them to come to us, most likely they're never going to come, and if they come a lot of times, what it is is complaints, and who wants to hear complaining?

Speaker 2: 17:34

Absolutely, that's exactly it, and years ago there I don't remember who coined the phrase, I'd have to look it up but management by walking around. You know MBWA, you know you. You know you learn more when you actually walk around and see people.

Speaker 2: 17:49

And in a world where so many people are online, there's not that ability to walk around and see people the same way that it used to be, and oftentimes organizations have people overseas. I know for myself I have that, and so I have this form that I use and it's called your favorites, and when somebody comes to work in my organization, they fill out a form that talks about like what's your favorite day of the week, what's your favorite flower, what's your favorite TV show, what's your favorite all the favorites that you have, your favorite pair of shoes, your favorite because it gives me some insights and then when they do something well, I can actually reward based on those favorites, like, for example, my executive assistant likes a particular flower and so when she did something a year or so ago, it was like that's the flower to send. I'm not going to send her the flower that she doesn't like, or one that maybe she doesn't like as much, but it's going to bring back something. And so there are ways that we can do this tangibly, whether or not we actually are walking around or whether or not we're in inquiry. But it is our responsibility to find out about people and not just have the expectation that they're going to come to us. That's the reason why communication you know verbal, you know this is communication.

Speaker 2: 19:15

What we're doing here, our dialogue, text and email, our information delivery services, they are not communication and people confuse that thinking. Well, I sent something to the person. It's like, no, that delivered information, how that's received, who knows? And you and I shared a story prior to this podcast about where information was delivered without someone inquiring about that information. Then a miscommunication happened. Because this is communication. That is just information Tells me nothing about what you're thinking, about what you're feeling about how you're voting, how you, how you, what the message is behind it. So I always say to leaders don't confuse the two. So I always say to leaders don't confuse the two. If you've got an employee and you're saying like something isn't being done, have you actually had a conversation? And if you haven't, then you really don't know whether or not that's true.

Speaker 1: 20:13

Yeah, oh, wow, that's such an important thing, and I see younger people especially want to go to the text messages, want to go to the emails. Or, if you've got teams at work, we're just going to send a team's message real quick. We're not going to actually have that conversation. And there's a time and place for both sides, because then I see the older generation in the workforce where the only thing they seem to want to do is either pick up the phone or go talk in person. And there's times where we're just busy. As we further the technology, we become more and more busy, which just seems crazy, because email, the internet, was supposed to take away a lot of the busyness that we had, but it just added to it. So there's a time and place for that, for sure. But, like you said, yeah, going and having that conversation.

Speaker 1: 21:02

You can start to read between the lines, so to speak, and everything. And I actually had this situation happen before where I was talking with the person on the phone. I'm like, look, this is not going to happen, like you're saying it's going to happen. And what do you mean? What do you mean? You know, the manager said this was what it was going to be. I'm like yes, by email, by information, he told you that. But if you read between the lines, he's not going to support that because he just can't. It doesn't make sense for him to support that. But he's not going to put that on paper, on email, because then it looks like he's not willing to support. But if you look at the actions that are going on, if you look at the things that he's saying or the way he's presenting himself towards a specific subject, you know good and well he's not going to. But this guy wanted to take it at face value what he said on an email.

Speaker 1: 21:57

It's really funny how people yeah, I mean I get it from a politically correct perspective, especially the corporate politics You're going to do stuff like that but at the same time like but that's where that discernment comes in and understanding that and I guess, being around the communication space and listening to what people say and what they don't say but they show and express, I've been able to pick up on those cues where other people maybe they have it, and so I'm kind of curious how do you pick up on these cues, especially as a leader? A lot of times and probably not in your case, because you're very open, you're easy to talk to and everything. But maybe, as a leader, somebody has their team that's maybe a little scared to have that conversation. How do somebody has their team that's maybe a little scared to have that conversation? How do you get them to open up?

Speaker 1: 22:45

Besides the curiosity questions to help them bring that guard down, Because there's still that title oh, manager's coming by. Let me look like I'm busy and everything. You sit up a little bit because your boss is coming by. Even if they're the greatest boss in the world, you're basically like best friends, you're still bosses here. Let me let me look a little bit more busy. Let me sit up straighter in my, my seat and everything. So how do you make sure, or help leaders make sure, that their team doesn't feel like they can't come to them or they can't have a conversation and be open about things?

Speaker 2: 23:18

I would say that when you ask that question, it comes down to for me, to confidence. And when there is something that is an external like, how do I improve something that's happening outside of me, meaning like this person looks like they're angry all the time, or this, when I approached this person, they seem really gruff, or whatever the external is that that prevents it? I go back to what's the reflection for me, and so years ago I would have said you know, I could have experienced all of those things, philip, and gone like you know the Well. You know, whenever I go to this person, their behavior is inconsistent. It's the best way I can say it. I had a boss that every time I went to him it was like, you know, if you went on Tuesday, it'd be a different answer than on Thursday, so it was very inconsistent. Okay, if I go to this person, you know, I know I got to put on my game face because I know what I'm going to deal with there If I were that person.

Speaker 2: 24:27

Going back today to the person I am today, what I realize is that that may have been true about those two individuals that I'm thinking about. However, the greater concern was who I was and how I showed up, and so my level of certainty in who I was, what I wanted and why it mattered, was something that could be rocked by external circumstances, and so I think the greatest thing for anyone, whether in a leadership position or not, to remember about leadership is that leadership starts with self. It starts with self, first and foremost, and when you answer the questions who are you, what do you want and why does it matter you don't get rocked by anything that goes on, no matter whether it's like how do I have the courage to be able to speak to somebody? You're really clear that this is who I am, and so the risks that I had in being willing to have crucial conversations with people about, yeah, that's not working, or that's not serving you well, or yeah, no, we're not going to do it that way, or I don't understand are not conversations I would have had early on in my career, because I wasn't confident enough in me to be able to have those conversations.

Speaker 2: 25:54

And I remember a situation where I went to a meeting. It was with my boss. I was a first line supervisor, he was a mid-level manager, and there was a first line supervisor, a mid-level manager, in a different department and we showed up and we sat down at this meeting and I had mapped out a plan of what it is that I wanted and I thought the plan was. You know, I spent a lot of time ensuring there was things for both sides. You know this was going to work and the idea was shot down like quickly and my boss didn't say a word, was shot down like quickly and my boss didn't say a word and the other, the other manager, shot it down and then proceeded to say a few things and spin my idea and give it back to me. So, in other words, they were giving me my idea, right, and there was sort of like this look of like this is crazy, making here, like that's my idea, right, and I was like I just sat there and kind of what's going on here and my boss said that's a great idea and he proceeds to go on and we leave the meeting and I said what just happened there? I'm like I put together this brilliant proposal and all these other things and he goes. Did you get what you wanted? And I said yes, and he I go, but it was my idea, and he goes do you really care that? It was your idea. And I was like I do care that it was my idea. And he said you're getting what you wanted.

Speaker 2: 27:22

And sometimes the greater lesson in leadership is being able to understand who you are, what you want and why it matters to you and the other stuff. Don't let it derail you and end up in a place that you're not really getting what you want. And it shows up for me over and over and over again. And the greater sense of confidence to be in that meeting, what my boss showed me is he knew who he was, he knew what he wanted, he knew why it mattered. And it didn't matter that it was somebody else's idea. It didn't change the fact that we were getting exactly what we wanted.

Speaker 2: 28:05

And so too often people also, because they're not sure who they want, they get so caught up in the emotion of how somebody behaves that they don't really get the greater outcome. The better outcome because they're focused on that. And so confidence, the confidence to spend time in your own personal leadership journey to figure those things out. And then the decision to speak up when appropriate also means practicing that. I would write things out ahead of time. This is what I'm going to say, because a lot of times when people aren't prepared, they go into meetings and confidence and preparation go together. You then win it and you're not going to get the outcome that you want. So clarity, confidence, preparation, curiosity they're all leadership attributes that are often not spoken about as much as some others.

Speaker 1: 29:05

Yeah, oh, I agree. And then one thing, much as some others, yeah, oh, I agree. And then one thing when you're saying that you know you want it to be your idea, that was your ego getting in the way, for sure. And when we allow our ego to get in the way, whether we have the title of leader or not, that's when a lot of trouble happens Really in life. When we allow ego to seep in, that's when things just go awry. When we allow ego to seep in, that's when things just go awry for sure.

Speaker 1: 29:31

And when you talked about that, like bringing your idea in, this actually is another topic I wanted us to be able to cover, and sometimes this is coined as flavor of the month. We have this new initiative, this new idea we want to bring in as leaders because, oh man, it's going to be great, this is going to be just such a great thing. And if you've done this multiple times, you're in, you basically do it for a month and you fall off the bandwagon with that and it's a new idea or it's a, it's another thing that'll make the company great and everything. It becomes this whole flavor of the month for your employees. And so maybe it wasn't you as the leader that was this way.

Speaker 1: 30:06

But maybe your company has created this reputation because they go to some amazing leadership event that clearly wasn't your event, because they didn't actually apply all those things. They just learned something, thought it was cool, want to come back, and it's this constant cycle Learn something, bring in it for a month, it falls off. Go learn something, bring in it for a month, it falls off. Go learn something, bring in it for a month, it falls off. What would you tell to these leaders that they really feel like whatever this new thing perhaps that they learned is something that should stick? What are some things that they can do to really ensure that they get buy-in from their employees and allow this new initiative, if you will, to be able to stick within their company?

Speaker 2: 30:48

So I have experienced that and I have been the person who has been brought in as the trainer for something and gone. I think your CEO went to a training and that's the reason why they hired me. So I completely understand flavor of the month initiatives. I completely understand flavor of the month initiatives and when you want initiative, when you have something that's like this really is good and it would make a difference in your calendar after you go to any training, no matter what kind of training, there should be space and time in the calendar to meet with key players, to meet with key players to share what happened in that training and whether or not this seems like it's a viable option to no and to say I don't think so.

Speaker 2: 31:50

I think we're tapped out, I think we've got too much going on right now. I think this sounds great, but not now. I think that this sounds like this would work better for a larger company, a smaller company but unless you have truth tellers in your organization that are willing to be that voice when you go somewhere and say I'd like to implement this, you end up with a lot of piecemeal initiatives that really do take time, energy, money, manpower and get you far off course of whatever the mission of the organization is. And you see people do that in individual departments as well, not just the organization as a whole, and so I advise people to have a you know, a plan of action after they go back. So if you go, okay, I see this and I really want to go to the sales training it's a two day sales training and somebody says I want to be able to go to this and the organization's paying for it. You come back before you go, you already have on the calendar, when you come back, who it is you're going to share it with, what the vetting process is for it and what's the action taken.

Speaker 2: 33:03

And sometimes the best action to take is not to implement something. It's not necessarily to implement it, but if you don't have other people that you're sharing it with, then you don't really know whether or not that's true, and I find that for myself. You know, I too, when I am thinking about something, I don't necessarily see all the tentacles of how it's going to affect this department and this and this and this, and so I need other people to say, yeah, that sounds good, but we could do it this way or maybe we don't need to do that, and that's having those truth tellers around a leader, whether that's organizationally or whether that's departmentally, or whether that's discipline.

Speaker 1: 33:52

And how do you create those truth tellers? Because that I mean, that's, that's great. I love this idea having this plan, having these people to go to, but I bet there's a lot of people out there right now that are leaders that don't have those truth tellers for them. So how do you cultivate the truth tellers in your group?

Speaker 2: 34:11

Well, it goes back to you and your personal leadership. You know, it's so years when I first started my business, which was almost 19 years ago Wow, we're getting close to the anniversary of that. Just thought about that. When I started it, I had this belief that I was going to go into organizations and talk about mission, vision, values, hiring, performance, management, how to deal with difficult people, and I do do all of those things. But what I discovered over time was that it doesn't matter how brilliant your process is, how brilliant your initiative is, if the leader themselves is not healthy, because you can't create a culture that's healthy and where people can thrive and even want to be a truth teller. You know, it's like if you're in an organization and you know the last guy who brought up a great idea got shot. What's the likelihood of the next guy coming in and bringing up a great idea shot? What's the likelihood of the next guy coming in and bringing up a great idea like pretty slim? So you're not. You don't have a culture of truth telling, because you've created a culture where people only tell you what you want to hear, and so that's the individual leader's responsibility to be able to identify and assess culturally. How likely is it for people to be able to speak up? How often do new ideas get brought up? How likely is vulnerability to happen?

Speaker 2: 35:39

One of my favorite stories with this is not a good story, but it is my favorite to demonstrate the point. So the Space Shuttle Challenger. Space Shuttle Challenger did not end well. Space Shuttle Challenger went up. Brilliant people Christy McAuliffe, teacher, extraordinaire, beautiful humans that went up into space and never came back. Why didn't they come back? Because the O-rings were bad and the Space Shuttle Challenger in front of everybody's eyes exploded.

Speaker 2: 36:09

And when they went around and took all the scientists and engineers and people at the table who said, yep, this is great, we should do this, they went around and did all the research and every single person individually said I knew the O-rings weren't good. I had concerns about the O-rings. The O-rings seemed like they weren't work. Why in the world did every single one of you? You have to get around a table and everybody has to say yes. Why did every single person say yes? Because they went. Well, he's saying this yes and he's saying it's yes and he's saying she's saying it's yes Must be a yes. Maybe I missed something.

Speaker 2: 37:13

No-transcript of beer on the way home, because the organization is so fraught with the inability to allow for vulnerability and truth tellers to exist. So it's more about the individual's leader's responsibility to say I want that and I myself I'm going to show up that way so that I can cultivate that in my organization. Unless I was somebody that got on meetings and said I don't have all the answers. Nobody wanted to come to me with things as the CEO of my organization when I showed up at meetings and go I don't have the best answer.

Speaker 2: 37:56

Like, what I have is this much information about what I think I need in this organization, and it was then that people would speak up and go. I think we should do it this way. But if every idea was like this is the way I'm doing it and this is the best way to do it because it's my company, well, who's going to bring up a new idea? Philip, nobody. And so people say that they want truth tellers, but the reality is most people will just want to hear what they want to hear. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 38:24

I agree with you there. They want to hear yeah, I agree with you there. And at the end of the day one the company. It all falls down on leadership. The way that leadership handles things is the way that the company will go. But more broad than that, it's communication. The lack of communication is what cripples companies. So you really have to get your leadership and your communication down, Pat, and that really comes down to the confidence, the clarity, getting rid of your ego, being curious, and there are several things that we mentioned within this podcast episode. So make sure you go back and listen to that, because those are important things in your leadership. And I want to get to our last question here real quick for you, Lisa, and that is if you could only share one message for the rest of your life, what would that message be?

Speaker 2: 39:15

The message is simple Comfort doesn't change the world, and the world needs you and your brilliance, and so I say it often, I say it a lot, and so I say it often, I say it a lot. That's my you know, those are the phrases that I, you know that I use, and that would be the message is that I don't believe that the world is a world that doesn't have the courage to get out and fully live their divine mission and purpose, live the thing that they're called to do fully and completely, for a variety of reasons, and that requires being uncomfortable, that requires recognizing that comfort doesn't change the world. Vulnerability will change everything, and yet most people are too afraid of being shot down and so they hide their light, and that is incredibly problematic for the people around them.

Speaker 1: 40:16

Yeah, for sure, and I love that message that you are already sharing there. It's one that we need to hear more of, and people need to believe in themselves. For sure, and, lisa, if people want to follow, you see what you've got going on and you're doing some amazing stuff out there where's the best place for them to do that?

Speaker 2: 40:35

Upside Thinking is my website. It's U-P-S-I-D-E and the word thinking T-H-I-N-K-I-N-Gcom. There's always a way to get in touch with me and even hop on my calendar on my website. So best way to reach out to me.

Speaker 1: 40:50

All right, perfect. Well, Lisa, thank you once again for coming on the podcast and sharing this amazing value that you did.

Speaker 2: 40:57

Thank you. Thank you very much for having me Appreciate it very much.