When Men Divorce: Exploring the Male Experience in Divorce Coaching

Divorce can knock the wind out of the protector identity many men carry. We explore what happens when that role shakes, why so many dads go silent, and how outcome-oriented coaching can turn conflict into a proving ground for empathy, clarity, and calm co-parenting. 

In this DCA Podcast episode, Tracy welcomes JH Harper, a DCA-certified ADR divorce coach and executive communication coach, who works primarily with fathers. Together we get practical about the tools that actually help: the three phrases men struggle to say without a caveat (“I’m sorry,” “I don’t know,” “I need help”), cognitive empathy through role-play, and the SCARF model for mapping triggers around status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness, and fairness.

We dig into the stories men tell themselves—about failure, blame, and masculinity—and replace them with questions that move things forward. What kind of dad do you want to be in five years? What experience do you want your child to have at big milestones when both parents share the room? Instead of staring at the obstacle, we focus on future mapping, micro-scripts for hard conversations, and agreements that stabilize kids’ routines. JH shares how fatherhood becomes a live wire to empathy and purpose, and why “combat is optional” can be a north star during negotiations and co-parenting.

You’ll hear honest talk about the loneliness men face, shifting gender roles, and the subtle ways language in the divorce space can exclude fathers. Most of all, you’ll get a playbook for redefining strength as accountability, presence, and calm leadership. If you or a dad you love is navigating separation, this conversation offers a way to lift your eyes from the rear-view mirror to the horizon line of a healthier family dynamic.

If this resonated, share it with someone who needs it, subscribe for more real-talk on divorce and conflict, and leave a review to help others find the show. Your feedback shapes future conversations.
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JH Harper is a DCA® Certified ADR Divorce Coach. A former journalist, he is also an executive coach who works with high-profile leaders globally on communications principles. He lives in New York City. 

To follow and connect with JH:

Divorce Transition Coaching For Men: Website 

The Good Change: Substack newsletter

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divorcecoachfordads 

Learn more about DCA® or any of the classes or events mentioned in this episode at the links below:

Website: www.divorcecoachesacademy.com
Instagram: @divorcecoachesacademy
LinkedIn: divorce-coaches-academy
Email: DCA@divorcecoachesacademy.com

Transcript

Introducing JH And His Path To Coaching

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Welcome back to Divorce Coaches Academy podcast, where we bring real conversations about divorce, conflict, and transformation. I'm Tracy, and today we are diving into a perspective that doesn't always get much attention, the male experience of divorce. So when we talk about divorce, typically the stories we hear often center on women, their emotions, their fears, their threats, their healing, and their rebuilding. But what about men? How do they experience the end of a marriage, the changes in identity, the loss of connection, their fears, and the often very lonely process of rebuilding? And how can divorce coaching play a powerful role in helping men navigate that space with greater clarity, self-awareness, especially in the face of conflict? So you all know I'm obsessed with William Ure. There's somebody else who I am absolutely obsessed with, and that's Scott Galloway. And I'm not sure if Scott, if any of you have read Scott's new book, Adrift Notes on Being a Man, but he writes so powerfully about the shifting definition of masculinity and the deeply ingrained protector instinct in men. This belief that their worth is often tied to their ability to provide safety, stability, and direction. When divorce happens, that protector identity is often shaken to its core. Many men find themselves caught in sort of this quiet storm of self-doubt, frustration, and conflict, both internal and external, often asking, who am I now if I am no longer protecting, providing, or preserving what I once did? And that's where I believe divorce coaching becomes transformative. In a field often dominated by legal and emotional narratives about division, divorce coaching creates a space where men can safely examine conflict, not as confrontation, but as a mirror for growth. It can help them redefine what protection and strength look like after divorce, protecting their integrity, their emotional well-being, and most importantly, their relationship with their children. And I am so pleased to share that joining me for this very important discussion is my colleague, J.H. Harper. J.H. is a DCA certified ADR divorce coach, a former journalist, and executive coach who works globally with high-profile leaders on communication principles. Based in New York City, JH brings a unique perspective that blends leadership development, storytelling, deep emotional insight, and conflict resolution skills into his work with clients. And all of JH coaching clients so far have been men, specifically dads. And that focus of fatherhood becomes a meaningful thread in his practice. He's found that talking about hopes, fears, and relationships with their children can be one of the most powerful ways to help men open up and move through the emotional barriers that often accompany divorce. JH, I'd love to welcome you. I am so happy to have you here sharing your experience and your perspective.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Hi, Tracy. I'm I'm so excited that I get to, you know, share some time with the, you know, the Doyen of conflict, you know, the master of conflict yourself. And that um, you know, and and having this conversation, I think, is an important one because it's one that we don't really look at that often.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah, yeah. We sort of keep it in the shadows, if you will. So I love that we're we're bringing it into the forefront. And if okay with you, I really would like to start uh by sort of talking about your journey. You have had such a fascinating professional path from journalism to executive communication coaching, and now to becoming a certified ADR divorce coach. So I'm curious if you'd like to share what drew you to this work and why did it feel like the right next step for you professionally?

Modeling Over Combat: A Different Way

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Totally, right? So as you notice, as you noted, I do. I work mostly with men, mostly dads, and you know, try to find that grace and dignity in this transition, you know, which is a transition which is hard for everyone. And you know, men need help, right? I mean we all need help, but yes, yes, I mean totally, but when you're going through when you're going through a divorce, I think, you know, we we talk about I got most guys, I think a lot of men don't know how to handle conflict. We tend to choose combat over, you know, not choosing combat, as you as you like to say it, right? And so, you know, this is not you're not going to logic your weight out of these emotions, you're not being mansplaining your weight out of these emotions, right? So what I love about about what we do here is this outcome-oriented approach, right? It really spoke to me, this idea of getting unstuck and and being able to move forward as being a priority, right? And having an ally, uh having another male model in this in this process, I think that male modeling is really powerful. When I went through my own divorce process, um, which was an amicable one, I had a male model in my in my own life who I follow, right? And as he got his divorce, and um I watched it, it didn't have to be a case in ugliness. They really, you know, I watched them co-parent and and integrate families and these things. And when it came from my time, I had this positive male model. And I went to him and and you know, he almost gave me like this cheat code and like, you know, here's here's how you do two, two, threes. And what's it two, two, three, right? But you know, when it was explained to me, we literally followed that two, two, three to the to the day. And I was like, oh, I don't have to create this out of whole cloth, you know, and those fears got so many of those fears got answered by, you know, as we always you always say, that fears and certainty, unanswered questions, and able to follow his trajectory and and realize, you know, that there is an amical process, it's gonna have conflict, but combat really is optional. And that modeling behavior has proved to me, like, brought me in to be like, hey, I can, as a communications person, as a writer, and people are saying, hey, you should write a book, you should, you know, like you're modeling your behavior for other couples in your life who've and and I was like, that was powerful, but I did know I wanted an education on it. Right. I I learning curiosity is so key, especially as a journalist. But you know, I was like, I'm definitely not smart enough to do this on my own. And, you know, and I went on my own questioning process to figure out who was best equipped to help me be equipped, and and that was you guys, DCA. The principles just again, that future-oriented, that outcome-oriented principles speak volumes to me.

Communication, Storytelling, And Getting Unstuck

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, I love, I love the combination. I mean, you know, it and a lot of people hear me talk about communication and conflict and how communication is so so amazing to me because it is often the source of conflict, yet the very, very, very thing we need to resolve conflict and how we get these entrenched storytelling narratives that we often tell ourselves that we use, right? Not necessarily in the most able way to engage in in conflict. So I love your background and experience in communication and storytelling and the power of how we can use communication so effectively and supporting, as you were talking about, sort of modeling or at least finding words and and asking those really, really powerful, curious questions. So I think it's such a beautiful, beautiful path that you're you're embarking on. And I'm really, really excited for the work that you're doing. So you you've mentioned that, right, all of your divorce coaching clients so far have been men. Um, and that certainly catches my attention, right? I, of course, have cherished all of the male clients I have had the opportunity to work with over the years. But I was wondering from your experience, right, what have you learned about how men show up differently in the divorce coaching space? There's there's things I've definitely seen as compared to my work. And I don't want to overly genderize this, right? But we are talking about some really specific needs that often don't get uh really addressed in terms of differences. And I do think there are differences.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

I totally agree, right? And and again, I I hate the gendered stuff and the cliches, but there are currents, there are rhythms that we find, right? And I think many men just frankly feel I isolated, right? We are just less likely to have that support network, which is unfortunate. Definitely not an absolute. Um, I have three best friends that I spoke to daily during my divorce, which was magical. But I don't I think that uh women are more likely to sort of share their fears along that whole process from the beginning doubts to you know to along the way of actually getting divorced. And I think a lot of men are afraid to share that with their own male friends or their own network or their family. So they put themselves in put themselves in isolation, right? They're not discussing it because of what the ego or or fear. And so suddenly, you know, they find themselves in their own apartment for the first time maybe in decades, and trying to make, you know, a homie house for their kids. And and that's scary, you know, that's isolating. And you're thinking, like, and now what? Like, who am I talking to now? Whereas, you know, maybe their former partner has has been more open about this process and has those people, not necessarily just women, but people to talk to about it, right?

Why Many Men Self‑Isolate

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah, yeah. I I've also found that, you know, as we're talking about sort of this isolating it this fear of being judged, right, and in terms of this ideological process, right? We we we like to look at I these identity threats, but this idea of right men and their experience of being the ones to take care of things or or to show up in partnership of that process. And now that that didn't work. And and where am I? And and how do I define myself? And and let's say I was the person who was working, right? Families make these decisions all the time in terms of if it made more economic sense for me to be the person out there working, where I might not have been able to show up at every soccer game or or every parent-teacher conference just because that was the agreed upon distribution uh of work in the house. And now sort of being a little using that against me, if you will, in terms of, well, you weren't there as a dad, so therefore. And and these ideas of what does it mean? What are those identity threats of both protector, provider, father, redefining how can I continue to work? And now, if I'm in an equal time-sharing process with my co-parent, show up in that regard.

Identity Threats: Protector, Provider, Father

SPEAKER_00 12:20

It's it's your identity. I mean, you're absolutely right, right? I mean, we've it's a failure, it's hard not to process it as a failure for all of us, right? And and a failure, I think, in some ways for men is it is a different, looks different for a man, right? And that is, and you know, I think sometimes we get so caught up in in making it look like we know it all, you know. I often think it's less about the protection and more about the ego. You know, it's it's men's egos, they're we're fragile, right? And it's like we build up this artifice of knowing and and being and owning, you know, sort of it all. And uh a divorce is a is a striking blow against that that facade we've created. You know, there's a sense that, man, you really messed this up, right? And and societally, you know, I think whether we like it or not, there's this sort of gendered idea that wobbly it was him. He was the, you know, that he left him because of blah blah blah. And you know, I I remember, you know, when I was getting a divorce thinking, wow, is everybody gonna, you know, everybody's gonna think that's my fault. You asshole. Yeah, what did you do, right? What did you do? Yeah, and and luckily in my process, my former partner and I were we're pretty communicative and we always got along. So it it I it didn't sting as badly, right? But I think when it's in a more divisive, you know, breakup, man, that's that's hard. You know, you feel like everybody's looking at you, and probably including your own family, that what did you, you know, what did you do? And I think that's really that's scary to the ego. But I do want to bring up one thing, Tracy. And I and so in my own practice and in my own life, um, and I live on a coast, I live in New York, and I deal with a lot of coastal people, I will say, but a lot of men I deal with are actually been more at the at-home dads, have been working from home. And a lot of the women have been the not the breadwinners necessarily, but have had really powerful careers. Um, several of my clients have been, like the dad at home who's working, you know, remotely, but the moms leave the house and are actually really high powered. And though the women are the ones who've you know decided to leave the relationship. And it's funny that a lot of those dads have been showing up to the games and doing these things, and suddenly they're finding themselves being like, Oh, now I that center has also changed, right? Which is which is, you know, um, and I think that you know, we're seeing that certainly within younger, you know, as as people get married later. There's a great article like Australian Economist about how many people are single now globally, and a lot of it's because women are just more empowered and aren't willing to put up with the shit, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:01

So yeah, we're expecting something different, right? I think that's sort of I I and I I don't know who's read this book who's listening, but some of Scott Galloway's stuff, right? That women are a little outperforming, men in certain areas and college and and the workforce. And there is some frustration and anger associated with that, right? So, so why do you think men may feel more misunderstood or disconnected during or after divorce? I mean, we talked a little bit about some uh societal perspectives.

Shifting Gender Roles And Dad Narratives

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Again, I I just think it's I think men are self-isolating too often, right? And I think that, you know, shifting that perspective is really key. And that's why I think our work is really important, right? And that is is not look, you know, right in front of your hand, but like look where you want to go, right? And I think that becomes really that future-facing perspective appeals to to guys kind of naturally that sense of action and forward movement versus, you know, which is certainly appealed to me. You know, you're like, okay, I want to, where do you want to be in five years versus being mired in this this problem, you know, this problem cycle that we get we get stuck in? Um, and I and I think it's just again, it's all those factors together, you know, as men's own egos interfere with them reaching out to the people who might be most helpful. And also, you know, there is that a little bit of that that gendered cliche of, you know, I mean, you look at any divorce Instagram and you're like, God, every man is an asshole.

unknown 16:33

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Right. Well, the the ability for men to be able to be free in their emotional expression, right? So, so I think a lot of it is how we look at how society defines masculinity, right? To a certain degree, being strong, stoic, self-reliant, right? It it to me, it makes absolute sense that men may struggle, if you will, to ask for help or be more willing to seek out resources to support oneself emotionally. So, so as we look at sort of those social expectations, if you will, I'm air quoting about masculinity, air quoting again, right? How do you think that sort of shows up how men approach conflict uh and communication and divorce?

SPEAKER_00 17:21

God, I love this question. I I this question just hits at so much of the heart that I think affects my clients and that I've, you know, dealt with myself in my own, you know, masculinity. And I think about it a lot. And I think there's three things that men often have a hard time saying. The first is quite simply, I'm sorry, without a butt. Hey, I'm sorry. You know, I messed that up. You know, I didn't do that right. Um that's important, that's an important one. Just full stop, I'm sorry, is a hard one. I don't know. You know, and I I see so many men like they stop learning at age 20 because they hate to say, I don't know. Hey, do you know how to do this? Or you know, oh yeah, sure, I you know that I don't know is like it puts a lot of guys at on the wrong foot, right? So they go out of their way to make sure they're never in a situation where they're in that. And the last one I think particularly pertinent here is I need help. I need your help, right? And that is a really vulnerable question, right? And and we spig all three of those on top of each other.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

It's it's really fact that, right?

From Ego To Action: Future Focused Work

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Well, you do, right? And and but it's flipping on its head when you're able to employ those, you know, you're like, holy cow, this is really powerful. If you're able to, you know, it and I would I say the funny thing about our divorce coaching is sometimes it's like taking a cadaver out to dinner, you know, it's like it's too late, right? You you if only you had this stuff at the time, right? But uh you know, useless, right? You know, but it it's hugely effective for you know dealing with that co-parent or that former partner, but it's also effective in all your you know, your current relationships. And that full stop, I'm sorry, and sometimes I don't know. Let's figure this out together, and I need help. Today I need help, you know, and and being able to ask somebody like a you know, divorce coach that, you know, yes, admitting that I need that help. I've I've got a 13-year-old son, and we talk a lot about this stuff, right? And I, you know, that modeling behavior, right? And I and I say to him, Listen, or I say, Listen, I'm sorry some days, like as a parent, as a dad parent, it could be hard to say, like, I messed that up. I'm sorry. And and I'll watch his demeanor change from that. And some days he'll ask me something like, you know, I don't know. It's some science question, it's any math question, I'm completely screwed. I don't know, you know. Let's let's look at it together. And the very last one is is and some days when I'm struggling, I'll say to him, Hey, you know, I need help today, I need your help. I'm struggling today. Like and and and I watch, then he gets sucked into this this helpful mode and the listening mode. And those are things that I, you know, men aren't always equipped with, and those three things who you can learn the most, and they become really powerful in these conversations.

Three Phrases Men Struggle To Say

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yes, I love I love the strength and vulnerability, right? Which is sort of taking this process of saying, I am human, right? I I do screw up, I screw up all the time, right? You know, one of the biggest jokes of my life is is my ability to engage in conflict because as a conflict specialist, I do it really shitty sometimes, by the way. Right. You know, I don't I don't get it right when when I'm in a reactive state and I fall into some of those, my nervous system is taking over and it's already locked and loaded, right? So so the vulnerability to be able to say I am human, I do make mistakes, and I need support. I I love that so much. It creates an opening, right? To sort of uh which I think is often, you know, we talk about these internal threats of status and how we define ourselves and these identity threats in divorce. There's all of this stuff that's now kind of showing itself, uh, as you said, kind of taking a cadaver to dinner, right? Some of this has already happened. I am one of those people who believe it's never too late. And if we can even change the statistics of those second marriages that lead to divorce and those third marriages that lead to divorce, right? We we are are are creating pathways for people to engage more productively in in these opportunities for growth, which is what I call conflict.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

We can learn. Hey, men can learn, despite much of the evidence. But you know, it's also self-selecting, Tracy. You know, I think the clients that we are talking to, you know, mostly are you know, they're heartfelt and they want change. They need, they know there's something not working. And again, for the same reason that I chose to come to DCA to learn, and and there's things that I've launched into all, you know, that I use in my daily life and use in my professional life dealing with other executives and they're back coaching, like, you know, ear statements and staff assessments, and these are really powerful elementally things that that you know, I was like, wow, I wish, you know, I do wish I'd had some of these things at my in my arsenal years ago, but we can learn it, it continues to matter.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Absolutely. I love learning. I have a growth mindset. So all right. So you you've shared that one of the most effective ways you have found to break through some of these emotional barriers uh with some of your male clients are through conversations about fatherhood, right? About what kind of dads they want to be, what they fear and losing in this process. Can you talk a bit more about how that approach helps your clients, if you will, connect more deeply and engage in the work that you're doing with them?

SPEAKER_00 23:10

I love a cognitive empathy exercise. That role playing, I find it works for men and like it's a really funny mechanism when you say they're talking about I, and you know, say, okay, well, cool. But if you know, I would love you to talk as if you were your daughter right now. You know, what would she be saying in this situation about this? And there's this right that pause often, there's like it's it's such a mind switch. I mean, I'm sure it works with all clients, but I think that's a funny thing for guys because connecting with empathy can be can be tough because uh it's just I don't know, it's a it's a male mindset, I think, sometimes. So like tell me.

Vulnerability As Real Strength

SPEAKER_01 23:51

I think because there's a there's a connotation of weakness and empathy. Interesting. If you're empathetic somehow, right, you're you're weak. And I actually quite the opposite. So it's so whether whether that's exactly what it is, I I do think that there are components that it is hard to engage in that, if you will, cognitive empathetic process.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

But it's great, you know. Tell me what they're thinking, or if their mom asked you about this situation right now, what would you know, and that role playing, right? And it's just it's and it's funny that you know, as as unempathetic sometimes you can be because you're angry and it's all your eyes, this exercise just it it's it's funny then you can say, okay, well, now what do you think? You know, that reality, it's a great way of that reality testing. And and it's funny, I think sometimes when it breaks through on a male mentality, it is quite like, oh, well, oh, I can kind of see now, you know, and so that role playing is just really cool. And then another thing that I found personally interesting was a scarf assessment. You know, what is it that what is it that activates you and what is it that you don't care about? And I found that to be really powerful with clients, just throwing like, you know, is is fairness really important to you? Is autonomy really important to you? You know, your status, one of the things that, you know, and on my own stuff, I was like, I think the worst world's that's fair anyway. So, you know, and like like I it doesn't really worry me, but it turns out like, you know, something about um you know autonomy and status are are real activators. And when I was able to look through at that through an assessment, it was really helpful for being able to, you know, be like, okay, when I'm emotionally dysregulated here, I'm losing my shit. Why is that? And be like, oh, wow, there's a there's a thing here.

Fatherhood As A Gateway To Empathy

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah. I, you know, I love a good scarf assessment. And and I don't, I think when we're able to look at it through that lens, right? Of this threat reward sort of process and that this is happening on an internal level. And then for me with men, it's sort of layer on all of this other external stuff, right? So this is happening and then societal expectations or norms or expectations of ourselves or what we thought we were supposed to be doing or how we were supposed to be doing it. When we then can look at these identity, threats, status, certainty, autonomy, relatedness, fairness, we then can see, right, what are those sort of barriers for that individual? And then also, I think weed out in a reality testing basis, this ability to that, what I like to call all of this sort of external stuff, noise, if you will, right, to quiet the noise, to then look at the interest. What do I need? What does the person who I care about need? What are my interests? What are their interests and finding that shared meaning? And I think when you talk about this ability to use fatherhood as this connecting thread, right, that that common experience, that that shared meaning can create opportunities to introduce these ideas of empathy and and and cognitive empathy. And then what do we need to do and how can we use it for desired outcome? And I'm not saying manipulate it, I'm saying it using it productively, efficiently, effectively to get to the place we want, which is ultimately peace, right? I mean, ultimately is is peace, not not in this constant state of escalating conflict or disagreement.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Fatherhood is a live wire into the empathy and that emotion, right? If you if you like it's a like, well, you know, where do you when I I again that forward-facing perspective, that outcome perspective is you know, that question, well, what do you want to look like? What's the family, what's the family you want to look like in five years? What does that look like? Again, taking away from what you see only in front of your hand and moving it outward is again, and I I think that works for a lot of men because again, it's action-oriented. But you're like, listen, you know, when your kid's graduating, do you want to not be able to look over on the other side of the room at your at the co-parent, right? Is that is that where you want to be, or do you want to all go to a party together? You know, it's a rare person that says, I want to, you know, be angry. And they're like, well, okay, then can we let some of the stuff go? Think about your kid, you know, that live wire, a dad of a fellow dad of mine sent me a video.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah, 100% sent me a video the other day, which was like uh like a Christmas video with a, but it was a sapp video with the son and the dad, and the kids like 15 and it's hard to connect, and they connect through music on this great, you know. But it's like I, you know, of course I have I'm a sap anyway, so I had tears in my eyes by the end of the two-minute video, right? But it absolutely is a live wire into many men's emotions, bypassing all this other shit that we get mired into. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Yeah, so that desired outcome, that action-oriented piece, where do you see yourself? Where do you want to see yourself five years from now at a graduation? And then that empathy piece is what do you want your child to experience in that product?

SPEAKER_00 29:04

A thousand percent, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I mean, so many of us are probably products of divorce too, you know, and you remember that push and pull between parents. And man, that was something I didn't want my kid to have to interact with. So that was a you know, a positive way that we pushed to not make that happen. And when we present that to clients, I think that makes, you know, makes sense to them. That you're like, okay, emotionally that makes sense, logically, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah, I love that. And it's such a beautiful way to bring sort of heart into this process. So, what do you think from your perspective, right? And I know you just started out on this journey in divorce coaching, but what do you think the divorce coaching community can do better to reach and support men during these transitions?

SCARF Lens For Triggers And Repair

SPEAKER_00 29:51

You know, it's like it's a silent half. You know what I mean? It's almost like there we're we're we talk to one side and we sort of are ignoring the other side. And I don't think that's deliberate, you know. Um, but there is that the slight gendered stuff that creeps into a lot of that language, you know. Clearly, you know, on our meetings, I am I am the outlier, I'm the the one male in the room. And I try to also be very aware because you know, a lot of male behaviors are really triggering to a lot of people, right? And that's that's earned, unfortunately. But um that funny of Austin's well, she, you know, my client, she, da da da, even the imaginary client is almost always a she, right? And I think that is just something to be guarded against.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

It is, it is something to be aware of, right? I I I I'm kind of proud. At DCA, every one of our certification uh classes since we've begun had at least one male representative in uh professionals looking to get certified as a uh ADR divorce coach. Sadly, I'm currently right now in a class where I do not have uh a male representative in in this cohort. And I miss it because I think it's an essential perspective. And I do. I think that there is sort of some rote process in which we believe women need to be emotionally supported. And it's not that we're saying men don't need to be emotionally supported, we just forget to include them, right? Yeah. It's not saying that, oh, they don't need that as well. We just don't bring that in more to the forefront, right? Which I think we could do a better job for sure.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

It's a collaborative process, right? So who you're talking to is who you think of often, right? And that's you know, and and not for nothing, being a guy speaking to other men, I do think, you know, there's there is that, you know, uh akinity, right? There's a you look akin to me, and and that's easier to open up a little bit, right? So um, I mean, I look like a dude's dude a little bit, and yet I think I'm a got a very emotional open heart. And those two things actually, it's like almost like some of the clients are like, oh yeah, cool. And then they're like, oh, wait, this is I'm getting something different than maybe what I expected, but it's what I need, not what I knew that I wanted.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

It's what I need, not what I knew. I love that. I love that. All right, so and and uh we're gonna kind of start wrapping this up. But it if there is men listening, a man listening right now who may be in the middle of divorce and has found our lovely podcast, maybe feeling overwhelmed or hesitant to reach out for divorce coaching services, what would you want him to know if he was listening?

Quieting Noise To Find Interests

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Good one, right? I think that this isn't counseling, right? And and I love counseling, I think therapy is really important, but the understanding that this is not a backward-facing process. I think that this understanding that this is an outcome-oriented approach is just future-facing, and that by undertaking this stuff, right, that you can sort of lift your eyes and look where you're going and not what you're gonna run into, right? So I I used to race uh race race cars for part of my living. And coaches would always say, Don't look what you're afraid you're gonna run into because you'll run into it. Look down the track as far as your eyes can go, and that's where you will arrive at. That's what you will drive towards. And I love that idea as a metaphor, is is you know, look where you want to go and not what you're afraid of hitting, and you'll get there. And that's what this process is all about.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Yeah, I I I love that. And I often say, right, if you're always looking in the rear view mirror, you're gonna crash into what you're going to move forward. And and it is also why I love the work that we do so much. It is action-oriented, it's future focused. And our clients cannot change what has already happened. It's already happened, but they sure as hell can change uh what they're gonna do next and and what they're willing to do next to get to where they want to go. So, JH, I want to thank you so much for being here and bringing such honesty, depth, and compassion to these conversations. What you've shared today is such an important reminder that men too need and deserve space, right? For reflection, emotional support, and growth through divorce, and that we are not all equipped to deal with conflict and recognizing how society plays a role and how we all have internalized how we show up for conflict is a really important discussion, right? And and why men sort of can lose their purpose uh or their sense of purpose as protectors, where they kind of lose themselves. And and divorce absolutely amplifies that loss. And it's not just an end of a relationship, but seriously a profound identity shift, right? And through divorce coaching, we can help men re-engage with conflict as an opportunity, a chance to rebuild purpose, reclaim agency, right? Redefine what it means to protect and provide, sort of in this future-focused way, this new chapter in life as fathers or single individual and parent. So, for our listeners, if today's episode resonated with you, or if you know someone who might need to hear this message, please, please share it. And you can also learn more about JH's work as both an ADR divorce coach and executive communication coach through the link on our show notes. JH, I want to thank you sincerely for your time and and contributions.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

You are an absolute rocks for and love what you do. And I've learned so much, and that means a lot. And that was all beautifully put.

Visioning Five Years Out As Co‑Parents

SPEAKER_01 35:55

All right. Thank you, everyone, for joining us. And remember, every ending offers a chance not just to pre repair what's been lost, but redefine what it means to lead, love, and live with purpose. And to every ADR focused divorce professional helping clients move from conflict to resolution, thank you. Thank you for being part of the revolution of redefining how families navigate divorce. Until next time.