The Marina Boelter Case Part 2

Chris discusses Marina Boelter's sudden disappearance on December 31, 2014, with Marina's older sister Faith Boelter, and her sister-in-law, Ashley Boelter.  Their perspectives add a lot more clarity and color to Marina's life before her presumed death and reveal another possible suspect. 

Transcript

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People always want to know what it's like to be me. How does it feel to see a dead body? Tell a family their loved one has been murdered, talk to a rape victim, catch a killer and get them to confess hold on tight my friends. Get ready for the journey and welcome to murder with Mannina. Hello everyone and welcome to another edition with murder with mannina we are doing part two of Marina bolter. So just recap if you haven't listened to part one, do that first before you tune into this one, but we're still talking about Marina bolter. She was last seen December 31 of 2014 as she was leaving her work in Bloomfield, Indiana, which is a small small town in southern Indiana. No one has seen her talk to her since then it was about six o'clock at night. The police has now the police have never recovered a body. What's interesting about this case is there are many, many players in it. And in the first episode, we talked about a few. And in this episode, we actually have some family members of Marina bolter, her sister faith, and then her sister in law, Ashley, and they're gonna kind of give their version. So Guys Welcome, and thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having us. Yeah, okay. So what I want to do is, you know, I kind of get a recap and if you don't know about the story, you can, you know, Google Marina bolter, but it's not that complicated as far as kind of what happened. And I think investigators are you guys have nailed it down. So faith faith, I'm going to start with you just tell me what you remember about that day. Um, well, at this time, honestly, for me, it was a bad time. I was on the run from law enforcement at that time, so it was a bad time. So in that time, I around New Year's Eve, I was at a friend's house I had never really had much contact with Marina or DJ because I had had her son I so I'll start from the beginning. I had gotten guardianship of Landon in May of 2014. Marina, DCS worker had came to talk with me and they were looking for a DJ Marina for Marina had tested positive at birth for some stuff, and then was failing to take him to the doctor. So I told her that if you know she signed guardianship over to me, I would be able to keep him we can keep him in the family. And then we could go there to establish residency back with her. And so I had him from May until September. I was working at a gentleman's club at this time, and I was on probation as well, which being on probation working in a gentlemen's club as a bar, which is a violation of probation. I was doing that at this time to take care of myself, my boyfriend at the time and my nephew. And so like I said, from May to September, I was taking Landon to my cousin's house in Bloomington, when I was working, she was pregnant, she was about to have a baby. So I was paying her about $20 a night to watch him because my boyfriend was working too. So it was just helpful for us. And then I had picked him up from the babysitters. And he had like a red mark on the side of his head. And it was about 330 in the morning because like I said it was a night club. So first thing in the morning, I had taken him to the doctor, his pediatrician, and they instant I and for that reason, you know, and they instantly removed him from me and tell further notice saying that they couldn't prove that it had happened in my care and until they could, they were going to and then he went to Riley from there. So I went up there that same night. And they told me I believe until further notice, at this time I then so I was dealing with Greene County Probation and now also DCS, I moved to Bloomington so I could continue to deal with DCS hopefully now in Bloomington and my probation in Greene County and I had hired an attorney as well for my case in regards to Landon. I paid him $3,500 cash as a retainer. Just to hold him we went into the first hearing for the court. It all went good. And we were going to have one more hearing and then hopefully from there, I was gonna have him back because I had some significant evidence from photos of dropping him off at the babysitters from the time I picked them up showing those times and everything that showed that that could not have happened in my care. And I take it I've taken them straight to the doctor so and I had so I had a pretty good ground to stand on. At this point. Now Marina and DJ were not they weren't really communicating with me because they were confused. They weren't sure what was going on with Landon, me and Marina we were 15 months apart. So as far as communication, it wasn't very healthy. We argued more than listen to one another speaking and so they had reached out to Greene County Probation and inform them that now I was working at a gentlemen's club. So I'd done paid for this attorney. Me and Marina were at our first visit with Landon at the DCS building and it was October 1 2014. And we had just got there. It was the first of the month I was gonna pay off my probation fees. So green county couldn't mess with me there. I'd moved to a new apartment. So I was out of Green County. I was now in Monroe County so I could deal with BCS up there. And then I was spinning Landon in the air, like we were playing out back and I seen the back door open and an officer walked out. And Marina is like, oh, what's going on now and they told me to turn around, I was under arrest. And so now I'm like, what's going on in the jail and DCS is in the same parking lot. So they walked me straight over there. My car was in the parking lot. I had my wallet on me. Like I said it was the first of the month. Um, I was going to pay off all my probation fees while I sat in jail for like the night I went to video court the next morning and I just I prayed that they just gave me a bond, I could get myself out and they gave me a$20,000 bond with 10% and I had$2,300 on my books. So I posted bond on myself, went to walk over to the DCS building to get my car it was gone. So I reported my car stolen. And now I'm walking Bloomfield trying to figure out what's going on I've had since 911 to October 1 I've been dealing with all this stuff and chaos, trying to move trying to manage trying to deal with an attorney to get my nephew. Now I've got the law on my ass, excuse my language. But, um, and so now at that point, when I posted bond, I was like, I'm going to jail no matter what I do at this point. I felt like I had felt like everything I had done was a waste, like everything with the attorney was done. So I sold everything I own. And I owned and I went on the run, I was scared. I was like, going through a lot of shit didn't know how to deal with it at all. So like I just ran from it. So I my car was gone. And I called to report that it was stolen. And I was walking around Bloomfield. And I'd seen the town cop drive by and I had flagged him down and told him that I reported my car stolen when it was in marinas driveway and he went down to IGA to pick her up. She was working there at that time, picked her up and brought her to the house to give her my keys. And October 1 was last time I seen her and at that time since I was on the run. I wasn't trying to talk to them. I was just trying to stay low. And then I came back I went on the run and then I came back. And then she came out missing and then I stayed gone for a couple more months because at that time I was just really a mess then, like I just had, it was really like a series of not not not right back to back for me and perceived to be something that it totally wasn't. And so that was with that. And then I turned myself in and about three months after she came up missing. I told I called steely and let him come get me and talked with them. And then I did my time I ended up doing 12 months in Greene County, which was half of that six months. It's okay, and I didn't work release. Okay, so where were you when you first realized that your sister went missing? Or how did you I was my dad called me and told me Okay, so So when he it was I want to say it was either the first or the second? I can't I can't I think it was the first and I was I was hiding like I was in Lyons, Indiana. And I just got a call from him. My dad kind of knew what was going on with me you know what I mean? I didn't like lie but and they didn't condone what I was doing. But he did and he just told me like he's he said I can't even like the words that he said he just said Marina was missing and like my heart just dropped the pain in his voice was like I just wanted to know where DJ was instantly like I posted on Facebook Where's DJ? Where's DJ? I had seen a lot of shit with them I'd been through a lot of shit with them keeping trying to keep that Marina away from him. Like all kinds of shit now as my first reaction was where's the okay so as an investigator when I talk about special on my podcast, trying to get the story behind the story and try to interview people who know are the closest to Marina or family members or that so tell me a little bit about how long had Marina and DJ been a couple. Marina was probably about 16 when she had 15 or 16. When they had got together he was he was older than her and my ex I was with him over them for about five years him and DJ were friends. So me and it's like it's a small town and stuff like that. So she was about 1515 or 16 Sorry, doctor 113 or 16? And she wants to Yeah, okay. I don't know. Maybe. Okay. So in the instances that you around them that it was it was kind of a volatile, volatile relationship. Is that fair to say? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, I had to get Marino's pregnant once or while she was only pregnant once but when she was pregnant once she called me, I had to take her to the hospital DJ had grabbed her and thrown her into the entertainment center. And so she had like, I'm not sure if she fractured tore something with her arm. She had a sling on for a while. But um, there were some drug issues and in their relationship, like synthetic spice, and I'm not saying that, that caused anything, but that created a lot more trauma and hell in their relationship. Definitely. Sure. And was Marina using drugs to, or just DJ both? As far as far as I know, like, so from October 1, when she came up missing? I don't know. I can't speak for certain on that. I cannot say anything about DJ or Marina neither them in that time because I really don't know. But as far as like before, yeah, and any hardcore drugs I've never known we're gonna do hardcore drugs, like meth or anything like that. I've always just known synthetic marijuana and we okay. Okay, so at what point do you come back then and start helping with the investigation or getting the information? After you find out she's missing? I went well, when I found out that she was missing. I continued to stay kind of like hidden and stuff like that. I just talked with my family. I was good. I definitely wasn't trying to go to jail at that time with that going on, but absolutely not. So I kind of like was in touch with Indiana State Police. And then about it was two or probably two to three months down the road. Detective steely had gotten a hold of me, and I told them where I was and that he could come get me in from there. You know what I mean? But that was the first time that he had reached out to me. Okay, so faith. You are the sister in law to Marina. Is that correct? I am her son. Yeah, no, but I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sister in law. Okay. So what was the circumstances? Or where were you when you first found out the Marina was missing? So my husband and I lived in Ohio from 2005 to 2009. And then we moved back to Nevada. And so we I was running a storage facility at the time and in Carson City. And I got a call from my father in law when my husband was at work. And I remember his words exactly that. He said, I need you to be there for my son. And I'm like, What are you talking about? You know, and he said, Marino's missing. And I'm like, again, kind of like what do you mean? Like, what are you talking about? And he told me that like her boss had reported her missing, after not showing up to work on New Year's Day. And so again, I think we were probably talking on the second of January would be my assumption, if I recall correctly. Um, and I immediately said to him the same as faith, I said, Where's DJ? Okay, and why did you share that? Because of the same thing. I mean, I'd been talking to my sister for years about this relationship that she'd had with this boy. And I mean, we literally were in communication on I just pulled up my Facebook account and Marina and I last talked on October 29 2014. Okay. And I asked her I had said you kept saying we in the message this morning, but now your Facebook posts are all about your relationship being over what's going on? She said, We just decided to part ways right now my main focus is getting Landon back. I said that's a good idea. She said yeah, I said I worry about you but I love you so much. She said I love you too. And that was the last time I talked to her. Okay, so you guys so you guys knew about the when he when DJ Throw her into the entertainment center what other abuse Did you guys know of? i My husband told me that there was a night where he threw her outside in the snow naked when they were at like a party of some sort. That he pretty much like left her out there locked her out of the house and left her out there to figure it out. Okay. And I mean, I know that the verbal abuse the emotional abuse, I mean That was there from day one. I mean, I have messages from her telling me like, I love him so much, but he just doesn't want to commit to me and this and that, and blah, blah, blah. And he did have another child with another girl, prior to her and him and Marina. So I mean, it was like, it was definitely a complicated scenario, especially like, fate said with him being a little bit older than her two. I think he just looked at her as like the little kid that kind of tagged along and you know, wasn't really taking her seriously. And then I think, once it became more of a sexual thing that it probably at that point was just like, oh, well, I'll get what I can while I can from her. Okay, some of the reading research I've done. He's seemed to be quite jealous. Is that Yeah. Okay. So that absolutely, yeah, he was very, very, very controlling. Very much a jealous, short temper. hothead, okay. Like, it didn't, it didn't take much for him to get pissed off. And it's like, even if he didn't want her, no one else could have her. Okay. It was very much one of those situations. And that was very, very clear from the beginning. Okay, so the research that I had done, and you guys cleared it up when I talked to you a little bit before was that when she left the IGA she was on the phone with who was she on the phone with? Toby? Toby. Okay. So and we'll get back to Toby. But in the midst of that conversation, she says, Oh, shit, it's DJ, what do you know about like, where he was or what he was doing at that point. So from what I was told was that when she got off work that night, he was in the IGA parking lot. He had gone to the dollar store in that parking lot, and was waiting outside for his friends to pick him up. And it just so happened, which I have a hard time believing was coincidence that it was right when she got off of work that he was there. Okay, do you have any idea why he was there, or what was said to her? So according to post, the DJ had written on his Facebook page at the time, he said that he saw her there. And that they talked. It's it's not really like clear if they had a fight, like an altercation of any sort, like yelling at each other or physical or otherwise. The way that he made it seem was that he was trying to get her to come out with them, like him and his friends for New Years. And she told him no. And I don't know the premise behind the man that she got a ride home from I don't recall previously, if like, they had set up this plan, or if this was something that just like randomly happened due to the circumstance of DJ being there. Yeah, but my mind a little bit that she's like, Oh, shit, DJ, and then somebody and we don't know the identity of the person that she got into the car with. Right? That has never been but you got some information that marinas trace DNA was inside his car. Correct? On a Walmart. So we were for weeks after we were posting all about that vehicle. And the vehicle description actually came from DJ. So the description of the vehicle was given to law enforcement by DJ talking about a Mercury Milan with like a shark fin antenna on the back of the car. So for weeks, I mean, it was all over social media all over the news and everything that we were that we were sharing, that she was lasting in this vehicle. And it wasn't until probably about three or four weeks later that they finally said that they found the guy, they found the car. And I mean, obviously at that point that had been weeks, I mean, the vehicle had been it wasn't immaculate, but it wasn't, you know, a hot mess either. And they had searched the vehicle and found like a Walmart bag or some sort of like grocery bag in the car that had trace DNA, but not even enough to like, make a you know, they they could just tell that she been in the car but they couldn't tell that anything had occurred other than her maybe sitting okay, and that matched up to what DJ said. Right? So what DJ said was that when he was trying to tell her to get come with him, she told him now she got in the car with this other man. I have been told that he went around the other side was trying to rip his door open like by the handle and that they drove off so I mean it was definitely not a like calm situation. It was not just a Okay, fine, you have fun, happy New Year or anything like that. Like it was very much the case that like he was pissed that she told him no, and then proceeded to get into a vehicle with another guy. Okay, and so then what's your what's your theory of what happened next? I mean, my gut instinct tells me that if she did get in that vehicle with that guy, and I mean, according to police, they could confirm that and that his story is that he dropped her off at a shutdown pizza place that was nearby her apartment, and that she, like, didn't want him to know where she lives specifically. And to that, that, to me makes sense. Is that something that you know her she'd say something like that? Or she doesn't want people to know? I mean, what do you guys think? The reason? The thing is, I don't know if about necessarily before but what makes me think that is something that she would say is because of the fact when she moved into that apartment, she didn't want a DJ to know where she lived at first. And she did, she was keeping it very on the download. She wasn't telling many people about anything. So if that weren't the case being said, and I knew that to be a fact, I would maybe be like, but I think that sounds pretty accurate. Because it make I mean, it was also spoken, she didn't want anybody knowing where she lived. Okay, yeah. And I kind of feel the same way about it, too. Like I look at her, she was a very trusting person, and was very, I don't know that she would have protected herself in that way prior to DJ. So I agree with faith in that. If it were something that had to do with keeping it a secret from people, then she would do it. Yes. Okay. So especially with her the case for her son, and if she's trying to get her son back, and that's what her number one thing is, then she doesn't want some random man that she just happened to drop her off. And I could see, I mean, somebody's definitely being like that and where the apartment was and where the pizza places if you know Bloomfield at all. Like, it's literally catty corner. You can see the apartment from there. But if you didn't know that it was an apartment, you wouldn't know that's where somebody was going. Okay. That makes sense. Because it's literally the corner is here. And the apartment is here. They're literally catty corner. It's not around the corner off the corner down the corner. It's on the corner. Okay, so possibility that you were saying to me before, possibly that DJ followed them? Maybe? Yeah, absolutely. I was I, I can't say for certain, but I wouldn't doubt it. Yeah, that's, that's where my gut instinct led me the whole time was, there's no way that especially if his friend showed up at that same time to pick him up that she was getting into this car with this other person, that he didn't try and put his big boy pants on and tell his friends, you follow that bitch or whatever, you know, like that he wouldn't have like instigated more interaction with her that I just don't see that he would have let it go and driven off and acted like nothing happened. Like he had a he had a persona, he had an ego to stroke, you know, like he had, he needed to show his boys that he wasn't going to put up with her treating him that way. Okay, you know, and that's the way it came across to me was like, Okay, you jumped in that car, and you told your friend, follow her. And when she got out and there was no one else around to see anything, say anything, do anything to stop you. You snatched her. And yeah, I was told a story kind of a theory. Or I don't even want to say theories because I don't like if you asked me if I think what happened i'll tell you i My gut goes with TJ but I can't sit here and get into I think this this this and that happened I don't want to say this or that because I did that for three years. And that shit killed me that literally killed me. And I had to get to the point where I Intel i am it like I said to you before and Tom in the courtroom and they're telling me this is what happened. And this is what's gone down anything anybody else tells me. I tell them 344411 Because that's who needs to be doing something, everything that you're telling me I'm not getting, I can't do anything about law enforcement has stopped us in every bit of our tracks. So when you're telling me that's only messing with my conscious and what I'm building, so until then, I just have to like allow while my higher powers guide to do what I know is to be done. And so but I would say I when there's four people, or four people and two of them are dead now like that kind of shows. Something I don't think that I mean, I know that bad things happen to good people, but I don't think that shooty as people just get away with that forever, right? if something catches up Absolutely. And I believe in that, too. So what's interesting about this case is you have these players, right? So you've got DJ. And I don't know if I mentioned in the first episode, but and I didn't, I did not. So tell us what happened to DJ. Oh, DJ, okay, this is I don't like I said, this is a lot of stuff. And I don't even really like saying on it, because I get so frustrated when I listen to podcasts, or I listen to things and things are misconstrued, or they're not accurate and stuff like that. I was not at that incident. I don't really know what happened. And as far as a family sitting back after him to hear me saying what I think happened, and I don't really know, I'm not really cool with so I don't know what happened. I know that he was stabbed and it was rolled out self defense because he kicked in somebody's door and was trying to show us and that's okay. And that's fair to say, because that's kind of what the police but at the end of the day, DJ is no longer with us. He was killed that night. So, so the Yeah, and that was six weeks. Six weeks later, okay. Okay. Yeah, it was like very, very, very close. And timing is okay. In the midst of the six weeks before he was killed. What role was DJ play in in assisting to try to find Marina that you guys know of, and this is the whole thing, this is why I'm doing the podcast because I want it from your guys's perspective. Okay, it was actually like, really kind of weird and creepy. Like, to be honest, he, as soon as my father in law called and told me what was going on, I reached out to my boss, and I asked them if I could borrow money, so I could get my husband to Indiana, because I was like, what do we need? What can we do? So I sent him to Indiana to meet his dad and his brother and his uncle. And about five other members of the family ended up joining at that time as well. And so they all physically went there to search for Okay. Um, they were put up in a hotel there by I mean, the town of Bloomfield came to bat for Miranda, and for our family. I mean, I cannot even begin to tell you how many how much help we had. I mean, I was kind of the liaison on the one who wasn't there. But I was doing everything behind the scenes. And so I had started the find Marina page on Facebook. It was hitting like every single hour, there were people on there. There were things that were stuff being said. I mean, obviously it was like everything, take it with a grain of salt. But I mean, we had lots of people reaching out saying how can we help. And that was so amazing, because they got put up in a hotel there right in town. People were bringing food and water. Every single one of them got the flu because the weather was so bad, and they all were out their nose to the grindstone from sunup to sundown every single day and people were bringing them medicine, everything. I mean, it was just amazing. The outpour of support. And let me ask you that to get the whole town. Do you know if the police department used any dogs to try to hunt for her now? No dogs? No. No. So at that point when she first went missing? No, there was no nobody. I mean, at first law enforcement didn't even believe she was really missing. Okay. So at first when she did not show up to work on the first her boss April, I believe got in contact with Tressie if I recall correctly, and that they went looking for her like at her trusty marinas mother. Correct. And so realize that she wasn't there and April was the one who reported her missing her because and the cops there, the local cops kind of just didn't really take anything of it. You know, they were kind of just like, Yeah, whatever, she'll come back, you know, or she just wandered off and she'll be back sometime. And then that weekend, she was supposed to have Landon for the weekend. The foster parents were like going out of town or doing something and they were allowing her to have an overnight visit with him. And there is no frickin way that girl would have missed that visit. There's no way and I'm like even April, I talked to her a lot. And she said, you know when things first started out with her, I wasn't sure I was like, nah, this girl's just got too much shit going on. She's not going to clean herself up. She's not going to do what's right for this baby. And she said I never would have reported her missing if I didn't feel differently By now, okay, she said that she had changed so much, just even in that month of December, and getting her apartment and like faith said, you know, she didn't want DJ knowing where she was like, she was being very protective of herself and trying to be very responsible and mature. Okay, you know, I mean, she was only 18 years old, I mean, as mature as it gets for that age and the support system that she was lacking. And I mean, like, she really didn't have any one of her actual family, you know, they're physically with her, holding her hand and telling her Hey, this is going to be where is your mother? DeRay worse, Tracy during all this time? Again, everywhere, all over the place. Just never. Never was there for her kiddos. Okay, you know, and, I mean, that was something that my husband, I took very serious. And, you know, we wanted to provide for faith and Marina, when we did live in Ohio, you know, like, they were our pride and joy, like we spent all of our time that we could with them. And we both left with a lot of guilt when we left there, because they were at such influential ages in that timeframe. And we both were like, Man, this really sucks. You know, like, if we just stayed could things be different, you know, those kinds of things? Sure. But I mean, I just feel like she didn't have the people in her life or in her corner physically. I definitely feel like she had people and those of us who loved her a lot and wanted the best for her. But she just was trying to do it on her own. She was winging it, you know, but according to April, like she had noticed a complete change in her and it was it was difficult. She said, she said there was no way I would have reported her missing had I not seen who she had been. Okay, that's interesting, because I don't think I knew that her co workers, the one that reported her missing, or maybe I did, but Okay, so as an investigator, you're always going to look at the boyfriend. What's interesting is now she's got this apartment. How did she get that apartment? Because I knew she was probably trying to get a stable place to live so that she could get her son home all those things? Absolutely. Yeah. How did how did she afford it? So she ended up reconnecting with somebody who had been a part of her mom's life in the past. Um, the sky, Toby. So her plans were with Toby that night. For New Year's Eve, she was on the phone with him when she left work. And I mean, Toby was obviously very aware of the situation with DJ, um, you he did pay for her to move into that apartment. So it came across very just loving and supportive that that was what he was trying to do to help a friend. Later on, did we find out that they were actually in a relationship while he was married. And so that was something that kind of came to light after the fact. And I think at that point, she was just grasping for straws. Like you said, like I am working at IGA deli, I guarantee she was making like frickin $7 an hour. Yeah, there's no way that you can afford an apartment and to support a baby on that kind of income. You just can't. I was stripping to do it to me, and I was I had to absolutely understand that. Okay, so we've got Toby who's married who's providing the finances? Obviously DJ didn't know about Toby. I don't know. We don't know. Okay, we don't know. Okay, to be honest. I mean, it's a very small tight right a lot of lot of everybody knows everybody's type of town. Oh, yeah. And I mean, if he did, he could have even just thought that you know, it was just as a friend. I mean, like I said, like apparently trustee told a story at one point that Toby rubbed her belly when she was pregnant with Marina. Yes, like it's that it's that kind of creepy. Okay, so Toby think Toby's involved. Any chance that Toby could be involved in this? Yeah, I think yeah. Why? There's mounted behind a I don't really know much about him. I've met him what like when I was in work release when I was doing my time I met his wife I met him so it was like in that time, within the six months after it happened, and now I'm like shooting these people in town and stuff like that. And I seen that he drove a little white car and I know that somebody said which Sam Somerville which was the driver DJ was with he had a white cars well, so somebody it was said that there's a white car seen driving back around like the pizza place or something like that after supposedly she had been dropped off. Okay, and it didn't register to me. any other person but Sam because I knew he had a white car and I was walking to work one day, and I seen Toby driving by the white car. And I was like, what? Clay? What's the motive? What's the motive with Toby Dima? Um, I mean, he's got a mus married, he's got a wife. He's got an 18 year old girl on the side that and I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there was definitely a storyline behind it for sure. I think there was definitely motivation in keeping quiet what was going on, and then a possible rumor that Marina could have been pregnant with his child. We were aware of that rumor as well. Okay. Okay. And that's what happens. I mean, it doesn't even have to be a murder investigation. The rumors fly about so much stuff. But when you're trying to look back and figure out because as an investigator, you always kind of want to figure out, what's the motive? Why did this happen? What makes sense. And when you look at DJ, a lot of things make sense of why he could be responsible, then you start looking at Toby. And that's a little bit of a motive and could be, you know, seen as a possible person of interest. And then of course, we've got to talk about the person that was living in marinas apartment complex, what do you know about him? So it's our understanding that there was a man living in the apartment building that had previously committed a murder, and previously abducted, assaulted and murdered a young woman had served his time, right and been released. However, we have been told by multiple sources that he was in fact alibied out and was accountably at work that night when the incident happened, and that, and did you get that information from law enforcement? That a lot? Okay, good. We did get that information from law enforcement at one point, and then from a lot of other avenues as well, yes. Okay. So he's, he's lowered down. Is there anyone else that I'm missing? I feel like I'm missing some of the driver, the driver. So he so he was a customer at IGA is that's what we've read. Yeah. Is he What did April know him that customer that gave her a ride home? So we don't know. Like I said, because they've never released his identity to us. Specifically, all we can confirm is that he had prompts he had possibly interacted with her at the store previous occasions, if not once, maybe multiple times. Again, super cute girl friendly, you know, very sociable. If he approached her and talk to her, she wouldn't be a rude person to him. You know, like, she definitely had that personality that would be very approachable. But we were told by law enforcement that he had had a checkered past that he had had a sheet that things had been he wasn't a good guy, right. From what I was told, Do you know, phone records were taken from him to try to establish if him and Marina had talked before? I don't? We don't know any. I don't know anything other than a man that gave her a ride. And that was it. Exactly. Have the police ever given a reason for not releasing his name, I think retribution. I think they didn't want to release his name. And people go after him. Which to me, I mean, I get it. But I'm also kind of like, don't you think that he'd want his name to be cleared and say, hey, it wasn't this guy. You know, like, I would just say, I'd feel better if my name was out there. And I was said to not be the guy. Right? Like, especially because because he didn't come forward, right? For really, what, three weeks after her disappearance. And he, as you said, the whole town was actively searching for her. How did how was he in the dark about that? Where was he during that time? There was no way. I mean, there just was no way he knew what was going on. And I think he was just afraid of getting in trouble. And that was even my understanding, again, hearsay, that in his interview, originally, he said he didn't know her. Then he changed his story to he did know or but only from the grocery store, but never gave her a ride. And then finally admitted to giving her a ride that night, and dropping her off at the pizza place. And that's the whole thing with investigators when you have information. They already knew the DNA was in the car. So we already know that he gave her a ride. So he tried to lie and is if we give more information like Well, that's funny, because her DNA is in your car, you know, then you got to kind of come up off of everything. So he may be at this point he could be the number one suspect in this because they're not releasing his name and hopefully try to work on building a stronger case with him because at the end of the day, we have him as the last person that SAR alive. And there's evidence that he was she was in her his car. So that's pretty standard and her phone stopped Hang Why 10 minutes after right by the pizza bride, that was the last I think that's the key of two. Especially with DJ being gone that we can you know figure out who that person is and then rolling in really you know go after him and try to get a link okay, we need to link so right so two more things speaking about the link Tressie had said that Vernon the person who was living in her building and Toby are friends on Facebook had you heard of anything like that that they had any kind of knowledge of each other? Facebook is plausible anything for Lincoln anybody? Because I have over 3500 friends on Facebook and that don't mean I'm friends with any of them. Right so that's true in a small town when you've got people popping up people you may know you know Toby Diem is known for demon cycle he could be friends with anybody that's that it's not No sir. That makes sense. And we got it we got to look at Marina having a relationship with the guy some kind of relationship with a guy that picked her up that may not even live in the town. That's why maybe you don't even know where he's nothing other so I mean, if she had met him or he had just you know, met her at the deli but lived in Bloomington or lived you know, anywhere else doesn't mean he live there because that for him not to be identified. Even by rumor with a name or anything and not such a small town tells me that he's not from there. He may have freindly there you may have something in there that got it and it could have been Marina who knows? I mean, did Marina go to the club? Did Marina ever go to the clubs and she was not old and are while she's at she turned 18 But as far as to go in other than you have to be 21 to go into the club 18 to work there. Okay, so she was working at IGA she wouldn't have been going in there to be working so Where could she have met this guy that picked her up? That's the question Ida you know, are well I don't know there this is like rumors and stuff like that. There was rumors that she had like a modeling page and stuff like that. And I I do though that Marina was it into summer, the prostitution, I don't even know I don't know her business to even say it. But I know that she wasn't against making a couple 100 bucks if she had to. Okay, so and that's the that's good information, the story behind the story when you're trying to interview family, because that's all information that if an investigator is really going to dig into this and look at it that you've got to ask, and you know, there's no judgment, there isn't anything at the end of the day, we're just trying to solve the case. And if we don't have all of the information, you know, because to me, I'm just talking with you guys tonight. I got to figure out who this guy is and figure out the link of how she knew because to me it says he has to live in that town and he possibly could have gotten away with murder you never know especially if she's doing the prostitution thing or she met him on some website. I mean that you can't discount that. You can't discount that and DHA took a polygraph right? So it said okay, so it says so. Your sister says that he passed three polygraph Okay, tests, but so you know, good. Yeah. I wonder if law enforcement, you know, did you ever hear from law enforcement that he took a polygraph and passed? Still, he told me that he did. Okay. Okay. So the main detective was steely, right? And that's good, because, you know, and like I've said before, the polygraph is a tricky tool. You can't use it in court. It's an investigative tool that detectives use, and really, it's controlled by the polygraph operator. It really is at the end of the day, if you've got a really skilled polygraph operator, you know, they can do a really good job and you can get a pretty good, pretty good idea if they're telling the truth or not. But if you just got your average polygraph person, it could go either way. And human nature is human nature you could walk in and I can look at you and go oh shit, we all do it right. We size each other up, we all get our preconceived notions whatever it is, and based on the polygraph interpretation of him or her giving that test, you know, it can tip it can tip either way. So Where where are where is the investigation now? There hasn't been anywhere in years. And I have another question. What about the friends that were with DJ? What do you know of them? And also a question for you Chris. If they were brought in and promised immunity could they be questioned or put on TV crap there's no promised immunity Oh. No, charges will be brought against you if you tell us what I see. Right because DJ if they they wouldn't come forward now that DJs dead because fatal because it'd be an accomplice there right or of the Okay, so DJ, Sam, Dustin and James say I mean, Dustin and DJ are both dead. So two out of the four and they both were rolled out self defense. And honestly, out of the four like if I were to see it go down like if I were to go Sam was the driver didn't have an option because he's driving. James is the little brother of Dustin that gets bullied and picked on so he's in a shit situation anyway. deejays the corporate if not Dustin with them. And those those were the two evil ones and they're both gone. And how did Justin die What's your shot gun? Oh, wow. And self defense. Ah, wrote out self defense by a girlfriend. Yeah. Oh, girlfriend shot him. Oh. Did you ever see DJ with a gun? DJ on a gun? I've never seen him with a gun. Okay, what are the rumors? Any rumors at all about how she died or where her body could be? I mean, I guess kind of back to you had asked earlier about what was DJ doing to help search or how was he participating? So at one point, that's where I got into the hotel. So at one point, our guys are in the hotel room, and he had the audacity to come there. Okay. He knocks on the door. And he tells them, it wasn't me. I didn't hurt her. I loved her. I would never hurt her. It took everything my husband had to not push the dude off the balcony. Right, right. I mean, that was his baby sister. Like that was hard. Right? But in other interactions, he was with Tressie marinas mom, okay, right? Searching right for Marina. And they were going out in the nighttime, in the dark. And at multiple occasions said that they were going to go search Tracy's dad's property. And so I mean, it even got to me at one point where I was like, their relationship is so twisted that I could have seen him going to her to help him cover it up. Yes. So when I tried to see back my, the way that my mom deal and cope with being dealt and cope with things were very strange, like, I wouldn't be able to deal with them, like have a more like a whole collage of Marina behind me and sleep under it. I couldn't, I saw. I don't have kids. But that was very bothersome to me. I didn't know if maybe as now a mother if that was helpful to her. But I don't see how that was freaking weird. Interestingly enough for you listeners, Colleen and I, you know, were contacted, and we went down and we talked to Tracy and the Mirage and, and the love that she you know, that she was showing telling us how much he loved Marina, you know that she had made a lot of mistakes in her life. But she did love her daughter, and that she wanted her to be found and wanted this to kind of be resolved. But it was all over the place. I mean, it was all we left there. And my head was just like, I don't even know what happened. Like there was just so much information. You use the perfect word right there. You said mirage. Yeah. And that's the best way I can explain to her, okay. My interactions were her with her physically in person were very, very, very few, very few, I would say less than a handful over last 18 years. And I would say that, based on my interactions with her that I couldn't trust her as far as like, thrower. I mean, this is what's so fascinating. I hate to use the word fascinating and such a horrible thing. But what it's such a fascinating case when you kind of get the background and all the people that are involved in such a small town and how is this thing not solved? And, you know, the police? Did they do a disservice to I mean, no, there's no chance in hell right? That Marina just wanted to disappear. No chance in hell. There's no way. There's no way she would have watched her dad and her brother. Cry on TV, right? I'm getting chills her saying that there's no way and she would have not told her dad where she was okay. There's no way even in all the time because the last time like I said the last time I talked to her on Facebook through messenger was October 29. But the last message she sent me was a chain message. One of those like I start with you, dear God, like protect this person yada yada was on December 8. Okay. Right after that her Facebook went dead. She got off the Facebook was not on it anymore wasn't posting anymore. So that was the last time I communicated with her through Facebook. But she was talking to John, all the time. And John is our data. So yeah, so there's that. So why do you think she just got off Facebook, social media altogether? Why she was looking for that separation. Okay, I that's what I feel. I feel like she was ready to change her life. And she knew that if she continued on Facebook, it was a attachment to her old life, to her old behavior to people she didn't want in her life anymore. It was causing her more problems than good. And in this in this situation, it's so sad because it sounds like she was trying to change things for her son. And she ends up getting killed. Yeah, but the part that the part of that is to change things she had to rely on people like Toby to help her pay for things, which made her vulnerable to bad people that do bad things. Yeah, I mean, that's the saddest part is that those were her resources available to her at the time. So who was anybody to judge when she was just doing the best she could? Absolutely. I mean, whatever she was making at the grocery store, obviously, she's not going to be able to get her son back, because she's not going to be able to afford to live in a nice place separate from her mother, or the abusive boyfriend, right? Well, I would love to get this, move in and get this out. And if anybody that's listening to this has any information, you know, contact the state place. Do you guys happen to have that number handy? It's 812-384-4411. That's the Greene County Sheriff's Department and they can direct you wherever you need to go. Okay, so do you have any idea who's looking at this case right now? It still is not, or we don't know. I sent a request in and I asked, and they told me know that it's still an active case, and that they can't release the information. And so I tried calling and emailing and texting. Anyone that I could and no one responded. Okay. I hate to hear that. Oh, I hate to hear that. And that's been recent. That's within the last six months. Okay. Okay. Well, guys, I can't thank you enough for giving us a perspective. And thanks, everyone who's listening please follow the story. We appreciate all your loyalty Please rate and review us and we will talk to everyone next time on murder with mannina and I love one another take care. And I will talk to you. 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