Strippers and Bikers

Shannon Rayanne Turner was an exotic dancer.   Turner was last seen on December 4, 1997, leaving her shift at Babe's Showgirls West in Indianapolis, Indiana.  Her fiance, David Mays, was an enforcer in the Outlaws motorcycle gang and has also been the main suspect in her disappearance.  As Chris reviews the case, she describes what it's like to investigate murder and missing person cases in the stripper and biker cultures. Thank you to listener Bree Daisy for bringing this case to our attention. 

Transcript

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People always want to know what it's like to be me. How does it feel to see a dead body? Tell a family their loved one has been murdered, talk to a rape victim, catch a killer and get them to confess. Hold on tight, my friends. Get ready for the journey. And welcome to murder with Mannina. Hello, everyone and welcome to another edition of murder with Mannina. Colleen, you have an interesting little story for us out of India. Yeah, I do. I'm in the state of Kerala, India. And it's a dry state. They only have alcohol at luxury hotels just for tourists. And I think it's only beer and wine. I don't know, it's very hard to find. We I went on a nine hour trek yesterday. Me and this English couple in their 30s. We were like dammit, we are gonna find a beer. We have been tracking for nine hours in the jungle heat. And it took a while. But we found this place and it was like a speakeasy. It was hysterical. Anyway, so that but anyway, the reason that alcohol is banned is because domestic abuse was rampant in the state. So the government in 2014 decided to ban alcohol. Within 10 years, it would be completely banned in the state. And guess what? Guess what happened? Domestic abuse plummeted. Oh, I'm sure it worked. Oh, absolutely. Oh, I mean, I can't I don't even know if I can remember a run that I went on. Or there was a domestic situation where somebody was an intoxicated. I mean, it's like 90 percent of the time. I mean, when you think about it, it's no expensive therapy, support groups, or imprisonment. Just simply ban alcohol. Look at what happened. I mean, that's how they did it. Wow. I know. Right? I mean, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, great. Thanks for sharing that. Okay. We're gonna jump on this case. It's out of Indianapolis. And it's a really interesting case for several reasons. But this person Shannon Turner has never been found. So she's considered endangered, missing and endangered missing person. from Indianapolis, she was last seen December 4 of 1997. She's a white female, her date of birth was 810 of 64. So she would be 58. Right now. She was 33 at the time that she went missing five, nine and 125 pounds. The clothing description weirdly was unknown. However, her friends and family said most of the time she was wearing jeans t shirt and black combat boots. She's described as having red hair brown eyes with a small scar between her eyes. Her ears are pierced and her hair could be dyed other colors and she also wears contact lenses. Interesting thing about her she has several tattoos. One is a butterfly on her right shoulder. Then she has a spiderweb with flowers on her left shoulder. The third tattoos a ribbon across her lower back. Her fourth tattoos a pair of lips on her right buttock. Her fifth tattoo is a halfmoon smoking a cigarette on her right thigh with the word rage and a dragonfly on her newly decorated so if you were found, heavily decorated. She was a stripper in Indy. And her stage name was Tawny. Or bubbles and bubble. Oh, okay. Two different ones. Okay, so that's a little bit of background on her. Tawny and Bubbles. Those were her two stage names. How does that work? Like Monday, Wednesday, Friday is Bubbles? I don't know. Maybe places where she worked? She had different names. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Okay, so she was last seen on December 4 1997. And indeed, she was an exotic dancer and babes show girls on the west side of Indy. I'm super familiar with that strip club, both as a homicide detective and I ran the streets over there where babes was located. Okay, so it's so interesting because when I've ever had cases with strippers and I actually this case reminded me of one where I investigated homicide. That'll be a next another episode where most of my witnesses were strippers, but I love them. They were super nice. And of course, they're unbelievably they have an unbelievable amount of information strippers do if they're willing to talk to you and in my ex experience with them, they they, they would talk to me so they would never talk to me inside of the club. But if I was in there investigating in this murder I'll talk about later. If I slipped them my business card, they always called me the next day. I never had to worry about it strippers are great. I love them. Okay, but she was last CB last seen leaving the club in the early morning hours, of course, after the bar closes, so probably 334 ish. And no one has seen or heard from her since no one after our initial interviews with detectives, and this is a 1997. So I would have been on the police department two years at this point. But investigators started it and learned that she had a boyfriend. Investigators learned that her boyfriend's name was David Mays, who was an enforcer in the outlier and the Outlaws motorcycle gang in Indianapolis. And that's an interesting thing, because I've worked with the outlaws too. And that is a whole other can of worms times 100. detectives learned that she had an appointment in early December. Now remember, she was last seen on December 4, but she had an appointment in early December, which had to be the first to the third to apply for a marriage license. But she cancelled it. Um, her friends and family said she was trying to end the relationship permanently. And what I have to say about that is a girl tried to play with an outlaw man like crazy. Absolutely right. So I don't even have to say much right? Right there. We have what we like to call motive at the very beginning, right. So she told her family that she was going to bring her boyfriend to meet her family that lived in Kenosha, Wisconsin, before for Thanksgiving, but she never showed up. December 1 She spoke to her family when she called her mother collect. I don't know the specifics of that conversation. But the family had heard from her. On December 1 with a phone call collect phone call. Investigators learn that her car was being repaired several days before she disappeared. So her boyfriend was picking her up from work. So obviously a lot of the interviews, a lot of the Sure, co workers said that the boyfriend would pick her up from work. The day before. She'd be an inch, which was December 3, her landlord saw her and her boyfriend at the apartment, and they lived out on the east side. And I know the street it's crazy. It's crazy when I when I review cases in Indianapolis specially before I was a detective but the detectives canvass the neighborhood. And we do that on every homicide case. And of course, she's an endangered missing person. We don't know that she's been murdered, she's missing. But we can assume so. But you canvass the neighborhood you go and you knock on the doors of the neighbors. And you just talk to anybody and everybody that will will speak to you. And the neighbors had told her that they that she has a dog and that she would return routinely chasing the dog up in her backyard before leaving for work, which is sad. I hate to hear that but she never returned home. So three days later, the neighbors called the Humane Society to come get the dog. So the dog was out there for three days. Right my heart poor dog, right because sometimes you just like animals more than like people but okay. Her family became concerned when she did not arrive for Christmas holidays and read in relatives homes in Wisconsin. However, family said she would often go on vacations without telling anyone. Her her family wasn't overly concerned. They just kind of thought she would reappear. So just based on that she she you know, she's a stripper. She's out you know, in the neighborhoods, obviously. Her family it's not that big of a deal. If they don't see her or don't hear from her for a while. She She kind of disappears for a while and then she returns. Okay, so a little background on her showed that she was an exotic dancer in Las Vegas. Before coming to India, Indianapolis her landlord finally called in January of 1998. So a month later, letting them know that she had not been inside of her apartment since early December. So the landlord, you know, was probably looking for rent and decided to let family know that she they hadn't seen her. The DEC detectives found no indications of foul play or a struggle inside of her apartment. So there's no crime scene inside of her apartment at all. Her family then from Wisconsin, Chris. Isn't it interesting that her her employers didn't, you know raise it didn't say anything. I mean, she didn't show up for work for a month. A month was the first time Yeah, but I feel like Yeah, but I feel like in that type of work, now, it's there's not a lot of like snow. So her family came to Indiana six weeks after she was last seen to get her belongings and file a missing persons report. So by that time, six weeks later, they became concerned. And but remember, we still do not have a body. So obviously, it's a missing persons report. But she mix in that lifestyle in the outlaws and you have to go there. So in January, her mother called the number that her daughter had called from in December. So in January, remember when I said she called Collect or whatever she called that number. And she said a man named John Walker answered the phone. He said he did not know her daughter, but knew her boyfriend. And he said Mays was house sitting for him in December, but he was probably staying with her boyfriend. Okay, so he says he doesn't know or but stay in with the boyfriend. And then nothing, nothing. It kind of stops the investigation, I guess kind of stopped. Three years after her disappearance. Her boyfriend, Mays was arrested on unrelated charges. He was interviewed by detectives but denied any involvement and would not take a polygraph. Okay, let's think about this. We don't have a body and we don't have a crime scene. So really, all you can do is interview him and see if he will give you any information. It's not really an interrogation because they don't know you don't know. I mean, you'll have any evidence linking him to her being missing other than a possible motive, but that's it. So they interviewed him and he just denied. And then of course, when they asked him to take a polygraph, he, you know, he did not want to and that's always a clue. But the problem with the polygraph is it helps us, you know, when people don't want to take polygraphs. We're like, Oh, they're guilty. But it doesn't matter, because you can't use the results of the polygraph in court anyway. So it just makes it you know, and with no body and no crime scene, there's really not you what's the angle? You know, hopefully, they did a pretty good interview of like, you know, try to get some information, but you have to remember their outlaws. And that is it's completely different. They know the system. They're in and out of the system. They know that and they were there's a huge presence, or there was a huge presence of the outlaw game in Indianapolis. And they had a building on the west side of Indy. But all we have really is an uncooperative boyfriend who won't take a polygraph. And we have a motive. And that's it. That's all we have. It's one thing I think that detectives could have gone a lot harder on him or even looked at him as more of a suspect if you had a crime scene or if you had a body. But remember, we don't have any of those. It's so hard. I can't stress that enough. It's so hard when you don't have a body to try to investigate these care. Also, Chris, why would why did they? Did they interview anyone at her at her work? The other dancer I'm sure that they did. Are there any clients? Where does she have a stalker? I mean, in that environment, it seems like there would be suspects inherently. Well, and that's what's crazy, and it kind of links with a homicide that I investigated. You know, that started at a strip club. And when you live that kind of lifestyle, it really could be anybody but when you nail it down specifically to her and you look at she was with an outlaw, you just you go there first you have to go there first. And of course, being a woman you got to go to the boyfriend. Are they the equivalent of Hells Angels? I mean, probably similar. Absolutely similar. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. So. Okay, so now we jump to 2002. And the boyfriend is charged with seven counts of federal racketeering and her murder. Whoa. And for whatever reason I wasn't able to find out. Exactly. Now remember, this is federal charges. Okay, so they locked him up for racketeering, which is huge in any of those games. But her murder so they obviously got some information. I don't know what they got, but they got some information. So 2002 is locked up for it. However, he was acquitted of all charges. because there just wasn't enough evidence. There was not enough evidence evidently for the racketeering or the murder of her so dismissed two years he may have been in jail if he made bail or not, but two years and it was all dropped. Which is crazy. But anyway, so what that says is the detectors were saved okay. They charged him federally, but they could still charge him. Stay In with the state's not a double jeopardy thing. Okay, so they were hoping to do that a little bit more background on her. She was a high school dropout. She had also lived in San Antonio, Texas, she was described as very outgoing and independent woman who led a carefree life in preferred the biker subculture, right. And this, you know, those type when they're carefree, and they're just kind of it makes it so hard because there's a million people to interview but you got to stay. I still got to stay with the boyfriend just based on the history. Since 1998, there have been many, many searches in the indie area. For her body, people would call it and say I think it's there give a tip. And detectives have never found anything. Great Turner, who is her bought her brother has been the champion of the case. And he is not giving up at all. He still is in contact with detectives, and he's still hoping and hoping and hoping that you know, something will turn up. Evidently, though many witnesses have come forward to say that Mays did kill her. Many witnesses have said that the boyfriend did kill her. However, there was nobody found, like I said, and no concrete evidence was ever linked to him at this point. In 2015, the outlaws building was demolished in like I said, 2015 in Indianapolis, which gave the media a chance to highlight the case again. The brother was quoted as they kind of highlighted in the news was out there saying I'm not going to walk away, my sister is not going to be some freebie. You don't get to kill her and throw her away like a piece of trash. And so the media and then one of the local stations did a did a cool article about talking about if the walls could talk in that building that was finally demolished. Now, I went into that building and I was on I was working the street. When detectives went into the building, I can't even remember the specifics of the case. But I I was just assisting them, which means probably just being a police presence as detectives went in. And I was super, super young. But it is a different type of ballgame. So when we pulled in, they're actually very friendly, right? They're very friendly. It's a it's a biker group. And they don't necessarily hate the police. It's not like but they don't give you a lot of information either. And they usually get tips when the police are coming in. And so I remember going in there and it was just, you know, it was a lot of leather, it was a lot of tattoos, it was a lot of women, I would I just remember seeing kind of like three women with every guy. And just the culture. I mean, it is their own thing. It is their own thing. And that was kind of the first taste I got of a motorcycle gang, because I don't think that I had ever, you know, had any involvement with them and talk about secrets and talk about code. So when the detectives were in there, doing their investigation, what I what I picked up on, pretty quickly is when answered a question, they answer in one word. You know, do you have any information now? When was the last time somebody I don't know. And they all did it, it almost kind of sounded like they were like robots almost because it didn't matter who you talk to if you talk to a woman, or you talk to a man or whatever. And in each room, I remember each room, we were trying to get everybody to get come outside of the building, and kind of have everybody in the parking lot while detectives were in there searching. And of course, they didn't find anything. And I don't remember exactly what the case was, but they didn't find anything. And I had always just heard that, you know, they always got the inside tip, but they were pro police and they probably found a crooked cop in Indianapolis that gave him the heads up on if the police were going to come and do a search. You know, they knew what they were involved in. And they they did a great job of covering their tracks. The likelihood of finding Turner is just probably not very high at all. I mean, they're it's crazy because they're good at what they do. They're good at what they do. And then every loss you're like, oh God, you know, how are we going to get them and so with that, with their building being demolished, the neighborhood was a static because you know, it causes a lot of destruction in the neighborhood that was in it was already kind of a bad neighborhood. But it improved drastically when the building got demolished that day. So this case, I think is just so you know, when you look at investigations, this case is super super hard, obviously with the outlaws. But when you have somebody that lives a carefree lifestyle And he's kind of been there done that in around the country. You know, it's just it just it becomes like this maze of like, it could be anybody. And it probably at the end of the day was the boyfriend. I mean, let's not, I always try to keep things simple. But it probably was the boyfriend but man, they're good. They're good at what they do. I mean, it's a crime crime gang. And they're good in this, you know, I'm sure the boyfriend is just out running around living his life. Quite a bit older now. But it's been 24 years. Yeah, I mean, he's thinking they're never gonna find evidence, even if, how are they ever going to link him tangibly? No, it's so crazy, because they're never I just remember them being very cool. And collective I, the one murder that I had at a biker club, you know, there was no, there was no nerves, the interviews are just different. You know, they're very, they're very calm, they're very calm, they don't get nervous, they don't trip up their words, they remember their lies, you know, and I think it's just, you know, you live that type of life for so long, and you get away with it so long, you become very good at it, right? Like, and being able to kind of infiltrate into their gang, I thought was really, really difficult. And as I as I think now I've now I've got two, two murder cases that I can talk about with biker gangs, but outlaws was huge. And then the Annapolis huge, and her body could be anywhere, or you also have the acid question, maybe she wanted to be missing, you know, maybe she wants to be missing, maybe she, she, when she decided that she no longer wanted to be with him, she just ran away and has a completely different identity. You know, we don't know for sure that she's dead. That's why it's so hard. Because if you look a little bit history, you know, she's been to a lot of places. You know, I'm sure she has connections in Las Vegas, and maybe she was super, super scared of him, you know, and decided that, you know, she didn't go down and get the marriage license, you know, maybe she just completely took on a new identity. And when you're trying to get out of something, when you look at domestic violence cases, and you'll look at domestic domestic violence cases and then outlaws if she was real smart, which she probably was street smart, then she didn't tell her family that she was okay. Because she would be too afraid that he'd come after her. And maybe she infiltrated into another gang and being protected by them. I mean, there's a lot of possibilities, you know, that that were even or even a different country even a different country right? You know, I mean, they said that she'd needed a spreadsheet neither fake identity to travel. Yeah, but they get that's not hard. There'd be some record. That's not hard. Here's the other thing when you talk about the biker gang being just very, you know, an emotional remembering their lives. I mean, I would think that just the fabric of that culture is sociopathic. Like the gang matters more than Oh, the gay you know, the the gay the gang, the gang and the family the makeshift family that is the gang matters more than any crime they commit, or Oh, like giving any information to the police so they can actually do it without you they can actually respond guilt free. Oh, they can like like how you say, like killers, actually, so many killers actually want to tell you what happened. They have that. Actually, they're actually almost happy to spill the beans when it gets to a certain point. But with them, they've got the almost like mafia culture. So that's not gonna happen in that kind of a culture. Well, yeah. And if a majority you absolutely you're absolutely right in in the majority of her family was in Wisconsin, and she lived in Las Vegas in Texas, and then Indianapolis, so she wasn't around her family. It appears, but she got a family, you know, and like they said that investigators said she liked the biker subculture. She liked being in that culture. And it is a very, very family oriented, I have your back. You want somebody to disappear. I've got five guys that will help do that. No problem. The loyalty is very strong. And it is very strong in biker gangs. It's strong with street gates. I mean, that's, you know, when we interview kids, when I when they were running around, we had kids that were running around robbing the CVS and Walgreens for for pills, and you would interview them. They're like, they're my family. I wanted in so bad, like, you know, they would do anything and you hear about that with these gangs. But the outlaws were pretty much what we like to say organized. A lot of the street gangs are disorganized. And when you have an organized gang that has a lot of people involved in it, they're very dangerous. I mean, they are very, very dangerous and people leave them alone and in the police. You know, it becomes a dead end with them and trying to get information and then trying to get people that knew about it. They're not going to tell us I mean They're afraid they'll get killed and never be seen or heard from. So it's a very strong loyalty. So when you look at that aspect of motive, if they were so close that they were talking about being buried to the point where she made an appointment to get a marriage license, and then she decided not to go forward with that. And that's huge loyalty. I mean, you know, that's motive right there. He she Dishonored him? Oh, she absolutely. How long have the outlaws been in existence? No, it seems like a long time. I remember them. I remember when I first came on here and about them. And then you know, this case, I'm sure they'd been in business. Probably maybe since the 70s, or 80s. But they're no longer they're no longer around. They demolish that building. You know, in 2015, you haven't heard a lot about them. Wait, that was enough. They just demolished the they weren't. They weren't paid it. They weren't huge. And indeed, there wasn't a huge amount of them. But there was enough to be strong. You know, it's almost like a smaller number of made them stronger. Right? Because then you had less people who would, you know, be able to chat about shit that they shouldn't you know what I mean? Like, they were a close, close Ruth's net, and they may be sprinkled out how many member? How many members do you know, you know, I don't know how many members, I just remember that day. When when I was working the street, and we were there, there were a lot of people and they kept showing up, they kept showing up, you know, they have different chapters, and stuff around the country and things but it just seemed like a lot at the time. But, you know, I hadn't even had any contact with them until that first time when they did a search of their building and didn't find anything. And it was interesting, because there were a lot of dark rooms in there. I remember. And it just, it was just weird. It was just kind of a cathartic, like, this is just like I I left my world and stepped into their world. And it was like this, nothing about this feels right. And everybody's on cue of what to say it was so robotic, I just, but of course, they're, you know, all tatted up, they're in leather, they you know, it's just, it's a motorcycle, it's a motorcycle gang. So she is probably dead, probably, but you can't, you know, you got to keep an option that she just was so scared that she was able to get out and put herself into own protective witness, you know, got a new identity and went wherever she was, but I would say that she's probably dead. If she's not, then she's found another game. And they're protecting her probably at this point. But my gut tells me that she's probably dead. So interesting. You know, it's just, you know, with with strippers and dancers, I, I always got along with them. And they were always so super nice to me. And it's funny, because you would see him, you know, if you had to go to the club, you know, and it's always so dark and green Jean dirty in those places. And, you know, and then when they would come talk to me and come down to the homicide office or whatever, you know, they were just so you know, normal and in pretty. And they're like, No, I'm in school pays the bills. And, you know, it's just such a different, you know, she was bubbles one night bubbles one night, but when she came in, you know, interviewed she'd give me her real name. And it was like, you know, but they were always very cooperative and the amount of information that they have. I mean, it's just, I wish that like, these dancers and strippers would write a book, because it's, it's crazy. It's crazy the amount of information and luckily, I worked a murder at a strip club. And whenever I had anything happen on this side of the town, you know, I would go through my phone and call call people like bubbles and whatever their names and I'd put them in as their stripper names. And they would tell me, they were they were lovely. They were great. And it's crazy. You know, most of them were in school, you know, they wanted to be professionals. I just remember nursing was always a big, you know, a lot of them were like a woman nursing school. And I'm like, okay, you know, it's crazy. So, and I think to have thing Well, I do. I do have a friend and her cut and her cousin was a stripper for a while down by lax. Yeah. And she didn't have to strip. But she did it for extra money to save up for house. And she said it was really fun. And it was great exercise. Yeah. Oh, and then her family and then her family talked her into quitting. Well, I actually really enjoyed it. Yeah, I'm always looking for new exercise routines. I mean, I do boxing but I just I don't think I classes on that pole dancing and yeah, right. Like, maybe there are anyways. But yeah, that's that's a crazy story. And I think too if she were, you know, ever found she'd be pretty easily identified. Maybe not now, but you know, with all of our tattoos it wouldn't be hard to. To or easy. Anyway, so That's an interesting story though yeah and interesting about the biker culture that'll be I look forward to Yeah, it's a different you you definitely walk into a culture that if you're not a part of your learning challenge absolutely challenge so anyways, well have fun and dry India. Yeah, I am having you won't be doing another Trek with the same couple tomorrow. I don't need to drink it was just you know after nine hours in the job eat it was we were all like Oh my goodness yeah right All right everyone good to have a cold beer? Absolutely absolutely well maybe I'll go do that now. I don't like beer. I don't even know why I said that. You don't know I don't even drink. I don't drink and I think I could dance on a pole. All right next episode. Alright everyone. Thanks for listening to murder with mannina and we will see you next time. If you have a cold case you'd like Chris to review submitted through our website at murder with mannina.com and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at murder with mannina and Twitter and murder W mannina. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode of murder with mannina.