Group Kill

A body with 100 stab wounds was dumped on a road. Chris walks us through how she investigated this murder without a victim identification or a crime scene.

Transcript

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People just want to know what it's like to be me. How does it feel to see a dead body? Tell a family their loved one has been murdered, talk to a rape victim, catch a killer and get them to confess. Hold on tight, my friends. Get ready for the journey. And welcome to murder with Mannina. Hello, everyone and welcome to another edition of murder with mannina. Colleen is in Mexico now. But I'm home, I'm only a half an hour away from my home in San Diego. That's crazy. So she's back in the States and we're getting ready to podcast and she's like, well, I'm in Mexico. I'm like, what? It's snowing here in Indiana, whatever. It's just depressing. Oh my goodness. It's a little cold here actually. Is that actually 72? Show 72. Like it's 32 with a brick with a cool breeze I'm looking at outside my window and it's flooring. And it's feels like it's seven. Oh, but I love I love snow. I'll switch places with you. Okay, swap houses. Yeah, absolutely. Alright, we're gonna get started on a case that I had my very first year in homicide. And let me just I know I've said this before, but I have to repeat it that my first year in homicide, I investigated something like eight or nine murders in one year, which is really a lot. It's really a lot, which is good. I guess it just threw me right into the deep end of the ocean and just said figure it out deal with it. So anyways, but this one was on a hot July, weekend, and I was getting ready for my days off, which is always bad. But it was my birthday weekend. So I was planning some stuff with my family. I was going to I think we were going to do my birthday party or whatever. Yes, I still have them with my mom and dad cake. Anyways, on a Sunday evening. So this was a Saturday night, which was my last night off. And I was working the 930 at night until six o'clock in the morning shift which is a horrible, horrible shift. Because if you catch your murderer, let's think about this. You, you go into work at 930 You work until six in the morning. And then if you catch a murderer at three or four in the morning, or even at all, you're working all the way until your shift starts again later on at 930 at night. So it was just a horrible shift to work. A busy shift, obviously, but you just never sleep. So anyways. But um, I was up for the next murder. But I was trying not to be trying not to catch one because it was my birthday weekend. But anyway was about five in the morning. And I had about 90 minutes before I'd be off for my three days off. The plane was to go home and sleep and then head to my parents house that evening to celebrate my birthday, which was actually later in the week. But we were doing it on the weekend, I was confident that I would make it because usually, if you can get to about five o'clock in the morning, you're safe. And if you can't, then usually the day shift person that comes in at six will take it. So I felt fairly confident it was it was inching toward about five in the morning. And but a street officer was doing what we like to describe as our slow roll home, which is making sure that you get off early or that you're not you're not late getting off early. That's how we like to say it. We've never wanted to be late getting off early. So the street officers heading down a row that parallel some woods. And it was a it was not a high traffic road and definitely not busy around. And we're at 515 at this point in the morning. The officer sees a body on this quiet road. And I just wish and that's what we'll say and I'm sure he he wishes well and he just kind of driven by. But we get through that. He gets out and see. So he sees a white male with what appears to have he appears to have several stab wounds on on him. He's just kind of laying in the middle of the street on the ground. He's dead on arrival DOA. And it appears just very quickly that he he'd been there for several hours or at least a couple hours. And again, it's really really warm. Even though it's five o'clock in the morning. It was really really humid in July. And of course the radio bit the radio beeps and dispatches asking for a homicide detective Now mind you, I've already started my slow roll home. So I'm actually heading north. In this this case is south and I'm like shit. It's just how it always happens. So ask you for help on your birth. Yeah, asking for a homicide detective. But there was not there was not a run that came out. Usually I'll hear on the radio Oh officers and route to a person's shot or a person stab and kind of get a heads up. It was nothing, nothing nothing because the officer just rolled up on him. So there wasn't a dispatch run. He got on the air and told dispatch Hey, I've got a body but I wouldn't have heard that on my investigation channel. So so so he basically just stumbled across this. That's why I said I wish he didn't buy it. Like why did you take that? Save me half an hour. But anyway, so the radio is completely Wyatt and then all of a sudden control gets on there and says homicide detective up for the next run like shit. So it comes out as a body in the road and Doa so there goes my weekend. I really in what's kind of I always remember the sous I always tried to catch myself from being too disappointed that my days off had been canceled. Because I'm you know, dealing with someone who had been murdered. So you kind of feel like a dumbass for being disappointed I called perspect Yeah, actually perspective. So as I'm driving to the scene disappointed that my days off, I quickly remember that I'm about to tell a family at some point on a Sunday that their loved one had been killed. So but it does take me a while to arrive, it's hotter than hell out in the sun is now starting to come up. So when I get there, I arrive and see a young male in the road. It does not have any ID on him. And that might and my first impression and also the first impression of the first responding officers that he was killed somewhere else and dumped from a car. He literally was stiff. And again, it's really, really warm. And he's just literally laying out in the middle kind of on in the middle of the road. The road was kind of small, like I said that outlines some woods in the in it was just, you know, two lane one going east and the other one going west. So they weren't really thick, but he's just literally kind of on the side of the road. So it appeared that he had been dumped and killed somewhere else, which makes things just horrible, just just really, really difficult. So there's not much of a crime scene. But when I did walk up on them, and like the officer told me, he'd been stabbed several times, he'd been stabbed a whole bunch of times. But I also kind of noticed too, that a lot of the star stab marks are kind of like not deadly, just kind of like pokes. They almost look like little pokes. So Crime Lab comms snaps the pictures and does a quick video. And that's it. I mean, there's not there's nothing to the scene but him. And like I said he doesn't have any identification on him. So I don't really is. So I begin to walk into the woods looking for any clues. And a crime scene that I knew wasn't there. But I knew I needed to at least go into the woods and see if maybe, you know, they were jacking around back there and looking for a knife or looking for anything. But at this point, I'm literally sweating my ass off. And I don't know about anyone who's worked late shift, but like that whole, from about four o'clock in the morning until six, you're just kind of feeling a little sick. And then you throw in the hole. It's 100 degrees outside and it's humid and you're tired. That's how I was feeling and you're in a lot of clothes. Yeah, I'm in uniform. Yeah, I'm in you know, I'm in my dress pants. And it's just hotter and shit out. But anyway, so I'm standing there sweating my ass off, I have no crime scene, I have no identity and my victim. And it is hot, humid and hot. There's no witnesses. The fight the finally the corner arrives and agrees is he looks at me in the corner that we had on before he looks at me. He's like, wow, this is a piece of shit. And I knew it was Was he talking about the the the person is a piece of shit. Good clarification. Now the case. You just clarify. I mean, that's what we say all the time, we walk up to scenes and we're like, this is a piece of shit. But now we both agreed that the case appeared at that point to be a piece of shit. And we also kind of agreed based on the body temperature. And he was in rigor mortis, which is all of his arms and things are stiff. So the corner gets out there and he's able to kind of go through his pockets. So he brings the body back out. And he goes through his pockets. And he what he finds is a march card, which is a little card used for grocery stores. I don't know if you have them out in San Diego in California, but it's like a Publix or whatever. It's a big grocery chain here in the Midwest. So it's a little grocery card that's got that number on it. And I'm like, Oh great, fantastic. I just have to figure out, you know, go go to the store and find out who the number is. So I leave the scene. And it's done pretty quickly. So I leave and I decide to take that Marsh card and head to the closest Marsh grocery store. To try to find a name, I arrive at the at the marsh and the manager will not let me know who the car belongs to without a warrant. And he did not care that I had a murderer on my hands. He didn't care. So he's making my life even harder. Because all he had to do is get in the computer and look up the number and wouldn't been able to tell me if he wouldn't do it. So I leave. What was his reasoning for not doing so it was a violation that I needed a warrant to get into personal information and I'm like I have a dead body pedantic so I'm not very Yeah, I'm not very excited at this point. And I'm I'm just tired and I'm in a bad mood, but I'm not in a bad mood as much the bad mood is my victim obviously. So onto the next door. I go and the manager was excited. He's this little guy. He's exactly like how you would imagine a manager, a little short guy. He was balding and he was super fucking excited. Like you So he's excited to help me crack the case. So within two minutes, he gave me the name and an address. I'm assuming that the name I had was him was my victim. But his address, which the nice manager gave me was not local. But it was a town about 35 minutes south Bloomington, which is the home of Indiana University. I went back to the office just with that information on mind you this is all I have. Now I have a name. I don't have anything else. I know he's been stabbed. He's been dumped. And that's it. So go back to the office and I run his name through the system. And luckily he had an Indianapolis connection and was arrested with some Indianapolis men a couple years ago one a few months before that on drug charges. So now I'm linking him and that's what's so great about our computer system and why we we run names through there because it gives us people that he hangs out with it gives us addresses that people leave think about it if you're out with people absolutely. So there's my Indianapolis connection the friends that he was arrested were all had Indianapolis addresses but him he had the Bloomington one and drug charges so this could be a motive, right so now think of trying to think okay, now do I motive is this a drug killing because and then I remember to that, like, I'm assuming based on looking at the body that he was stabbed to death. But then I also saw a bunch of like I said, kind of superficial staffs. I thought that was kind of weird. So I'm like, okay, is my motive drugs like, what? It's just weird. So anyway, but I would just want to keep that open, but I don't want to get too much tunnel vision. Because that can be dangerous. So after the autopsy, I go and I'm feeling good. I'm smelling good. I'm feeling fantastic. Now it's like noon. I'm probably six or seven hours into this. There's nothing worse than being up all night sweating your ass off going into a shitty crime scene, and then walking into a more it's the worst. I mean, I can't even describe the smell of it. It's just it's something that you can't even describe. But what I learned from the autopsy had been stabbed over 100 times and a lot of them are superficial, with about four of them causing his death. All of these superficial stabs but four of them are the ones that the fourth the four stab wounds are what killed him. So I decided okay, I'm gonna go to Bloomington I'm feeling fantastic again. And like I said about 35 minutes south of Indy. So I'm just driving and smelling fresh and gotta go to the address of the found on the you hate it you hate to be it's right, because you're like, oh my god, we're gonna murder. And I'm just mad. Like, I'm just like, I can totally kind of feel like I felt that this is my life. And I'm but I'm like, suck Don't be an asshole, right? Like is life is over. Like keep things in perspective, like you said. So I arrived at the address on the on the march card, and it's up on this hill. So we're now into kind of it's Bloomington, but it's outside of Bloomington in these rural kind of rural areas where the houses are kind of far away from each other. So it's a farmhouse. So I'm walking up the hill, and a knock on the door and an older man with a lamp and a cane comes to the door. And I introduce myself, which is never good. And he invites me and we sit down. And I asked him what his name is. And it's the same name I found on the police reports. In the grocery store card. I asked him if he has a son and he tells me Yes, she is Yeah, son now right now, don't be an asshole and be and be mad about your days off. So he said, he says he has a son. And I said, Well, I believe that I found your son this morning he had been killed in Indianapolis. And to see a grown man sob in his own house in his own chair, sitting in a chair that you know, he just sat in every day for me it's kind of overweight, the Olympian not very good health. But it is something that you don't forget. And so all of the bitching and complaining that I was thinking about and even doing, you know, on this podcast, goes away really, really quickly. And it did Boy Yeah. But after several minutes he he was able to gain his composure, but not once during the entire conversation, which lasted over an hour or did he asked me how his son died, not one time and the entire investigation was stayed he asked me how he died. And I never told him what I just said he was found killed in Indianapolis because I figure it's kind of one of those things if they wanted to know they would ask that is dead. That is dead. But this is kind of the background and he gets me in this kind of helps develop my motive and why I'm at where I'm at. So dad tells me that his son was testifying in federal court in Detroit on Monday. Now I found him on a Sunday morning. He along with a few other of his friends and the people that were in the police report, and some people also that lived in Bloomington were had all been arrested. And they were charged federally they were drug trafficking drugs. lugs are between Detroit and Indianapolis. He my victim was testifying on Monday and flipping on some of his buddies. Oh, wow. Yeah. There were people involved. According to dad, he was he was the only one flipping on the Detroit on the Detroit connection. So you had your Detroit connection, which is where they went up and got the drugs. In the end. He was flipping on the Detroit connection, not his friends that he was friends with in Indianapolis and not his friends that he was friends with in Bloomington. Okay. He was only flipping on the Detroit people. But he was in it pretty did my victim was in a deep and a bunch of his friends who lived in his town were involved, but he was not giving them up. Okay. There was a lot of people that he had been the only one that the few that had been arrested never flipped, and they did some time. And they were already out. Okay. And some some one of the other guys was still in, but the majority of them had he had just not told on in the Detroit, the Detroit connection hadn't told on them either. Okay. So the night before or the night before he was murdered a bunch of his friends, his childhood friends that were involved in this but had not been arrested because what he had been doing it had been going up to Detroit, getting them bringing them back distributed in to his childhood friends, and they were all selling him. So it was this big connect what kind of job What kind of drugs? Oh, it was pills. It was all kinds of pills. I mean, any ill you can think of, but his childhood friends who had been, you know, obviously friends their whole life and then then bit been involved. We're going up to Indianapolis to a strip club and wanted to take him out for like his last Turay before he had to go to court. So that was the plan. That's what dad said. He said, all of his buddies came and picked him up at the house on the hill, and said, We're taking you out for a big night in Indianapolis, and we're going to take you to the strip club. And we're going to, you know, live it up before you go testify. So they take him up there, and there was about five or six of them, they take them up there, they buy him drinks, and show him a good time. You know, obviously before testifying and starting his jail time, he was also he knew he was going to jail. He just wasn't going to go as long for testifying. Um, so they, you know, his dad just described his friends. His dad gave me his friends names, all the guys that took them up there. And so I'm getting a lot of information. I'm getting a lot of names. So they pick him up, they take him to the strip club strip club called the Classy chassis, which ironically, was down by that nice hotel. He wanted to stay that one night in Indianapolis. When the cigarette burns and no TV, yeah, the broken TV. But what's interesting, it's it's only about a mile from where my victim was found. Oh, wow, the strip clubs only about a mile from actually less than a mile where my victim was found. So dad gave me all the names who went to the club. I left Dad and I knew I would, you know, I told him, I'd keep him updated. And he kind of walks me to the door. He's got tears welling up in his eyes. And he's just alone. Now he's alone because his son lived with him. So he's living in this huge house on the hill by himself. Now, this is so quickly how live. Right, right, like, Okay, so now I contact local law enforcement and speak on the phone with a detective who is familiar with the whole group. He is now my partner. So I call Bloomington pd i get with a detective where he's very familiar with all of the names that dad gave me. He's very familiar with my victims name. And now he is my partner to try and solve this because he's gonna have to take me around to all of their addresses. So by this time, it's like, I don't know, four or five in the afternoon, and I am more than hire lawyer. So I tell him, I need to go home and sleep for a couple hours shower, eat and then hit the strip club because I actually want to hit the strip club before I start hitting the, the addresses. So I go home and I do all that and the thing about it is, I don't know I'm sure you know, you felt like you're so tired that you can't sleep. Sure. And that's kind of how I was I went home I showered I got some food and then I was just laying in bed trying to sleep but I couldn't. So I just ended up getting up. So the Classy chassis just for reference purposes is not classy at all. It's right off. It's right off the interstate on a major on it's right off the interstate a major interstate that loops in the Annapolis and it's straight it's a straight shot to Bloomington so all they literally needed to go up with us 31 And then bam the chassis classes right there. So I go in and about on a midnight on a Sunday night and then I'm thinking that's not going to be that busy. And so it's crazy because I go in there and of course it's dark. It's not that crazy on the Sunday night and I wait a while and I'm just trying to interview but then they turn the lights on. And that is a completely different ballgame to when you go into a strip club it in the dark. And then when you go on the strip club when they turn the lights on and it's like Whoa, it's just it's exactly what you get with big enough said. So while I'm waiting and in between their lap dances in between closing time I interview about for half naked highly intelligent strippers which they were so smart, who all said that my victim and his friends were in the night before they all were very familiar. Then they said they spent a lot of money. They said the one guy who ended up being my victim was the one that was the star of the show. They were buying them lap dances, they were Brian them drinks, they were all really really familiar with them. He said they got they got several lap dances. And, and all of the strippers is so crazy, because like they were all very much it's hard to like, so they would do their dance. And then they would come in interview with me, you know, and they're half naked. And they've got ones hanging out of them. But super, super intelligent and very, very cooperative, very cooperative. And they so they told me all I mean, they really much pretty much gave me the same exact story that they were all in there. And they all agreed that they left at about 3am Which sounds about right, right. So I met him at five or the officer found them about 515. It measures up with the rigor mortis that had set in and so how I can't remember how long does rigor mortis, how long does it take rigor mortis to set in? It doesn't take very long because of the heat. It was so hot weather is a factor, right? Whether it's absolutely a factor. So he was not in full rigor, but like his arm was sticking up. And I remember trying to flip it down and flip right back up. So yeah, I mean, it was rigorous enough. So I head back to blow so I hit the Bloomington Now I call the detective and tell him I'm I'm going to be down there and I meet up with him. And like I said before, he knew he knows my people. He's already run criminal histories on them. We've got local addresses. So he's going to drive me around. So for the next six weeks, I am back and forth, doing interviews with the biggest pieces of shit people I've ever come across in a while. So these group of kids and they were all like 1920 21. That's it. I go that age. Wow. Yeah, I go and interview one. One of them and they were living with their girlfriend. And they were a part of that they were in the car and they all agreed that they went to the strip club. None of them were very they act they tried to act shocked that he was dead. But none of them were and they were and they had literally practice their story. They were they were everybody that I interviewed said the same exact thing that they they drank them up, but that he wanted to stay that they were all ready to go back to Bloomington. But he met a girl and he wanted to stay. And so they left them there. And I'm like you left them they're intoxicated. Yes. I mean, and I had gone back because mind you I don't have a lot of evidence. I don't have an eyewitness to this. Sure. I don't have any been cooperating in all of these kids. And they were they were some of them were Indiana University students. You know, some of them got attorneys. And but but the majority of them were just pieces of shit. And they didn't care that he was dead. You know, it was very, you know, very evidence. So I'm going back and forth for probably six weeks. How many? How many? How big was this group? How many? There were about six people who said so. Okay. And they all? Yeah, and they all kept the same stories. But like I said, they were all involved in the drug game. They were all there the night there was murdered. And at this point, I have absolutely nothing solid except just a group of young people with the same story. Several weeks later, like I'm going back and forth a detective that lives in Bloomington. He's kind of working with me. I'm driving back and forth, but I'm catching other cases, because I just don't have anything solid. But finally, I get a break. A local guy guy from Indianapolis gets arrested and wants to talk. So I'm like, Oh, God, yeah, listen. But this is what he tells me. He says he was not there the night of the murder. But it was his garage where they had taken the victim and stabbed him. Okay, so this guy comes forward. He's been arrested, okay, on something completely different. And wanted to wheel and deal and so he's sitting in jail. He's like, how do I get myself out of it? He figures out. I'm the detective. I literally go to the jail. And he tells me that he wasn't there at the strip club. But they did bring him back and they started stabbing him in his garage. And he was the one that kind of he said he overheard he said he wasn't there in the garage while they were stabbing him. But he overheard one of the main guys that was doing probably the stabbing that killed them was telling mean, everybody in the group that they had to stab them because they all had to be equally accountable if they were to get caught. So everyone had to participate for staying this. Anyways, he said that the friends that the motive behind all this was that they did not believe that my victim was not going to flip on them. He had not flipped on them the whole entire time. But for whatever reason, the lead guy in this group just didn't believe for one second that he wasn't going to flip on them. So the whole thing was planned, take them out, get them drunk and kill them. That was the entire plan that night. Out of the group, there was the main subs that the main suspect who stabbed him and killed him, he made everyone in the group stab or Prick him. So everyone played a part like I just And that's explains the 100 over 100 staff that he had, right. Um, so I head back down, I call up my detective gun, I go, Hey, I've got the main guy that I think's in charge of this, he knew exactly who he was go down. And I'm now want to interview him for the second time, right? I've already interviewed him once. But this time he comes in, and we go down there. And he says, I'll come in and talk to you tomorrow after I drive down there. But I'm bringing my attorney. And I'm like, okay, because at this point, I don't have anything. I have a guy that says they did it in his garage. But he's also not admitting that he's seen it. He just knows that they did it. He didn't see will not come up if he saw it. So I go to the prosecutor, and I'm kind of laying out everything. But I just don't have any witnesses. I have obviously motive I have cause of death, I have all of that stuff. I have stories that are really kind of lining up. But I don't have any eyewitnesses. So the prosecutors, like just continue to work on it, try to get more intelligence, see if you can get more of a break. So this this case takes me a long, long time. So I continue and work on it and learn intelligence and the main guy was the killer. And most of the group was petrified of them. So when they went to Detroit, when my victim would go to Detroit, he'd bring a large amount of pills back with him, he gave it to the main guy in Bloomington, the main guy gave it to his little people. But they were afraid of him. When I talked about him in the interview, when I did bring up his name, because I went back and re interview these people, probably four and five times. I mean, this took me forever, I got the same impression that they were all scared of them. But not none of them. Were flipping that one of them with flip. So that was just kind of you know, it was weird because it but they were all just I just remember thinking they were all just kind of arrogant, spoiled pieces of shit. So then what I like to say is the murder Gods stepped in. And I learned that my main suspect had been killed. So I'm working on this. Now we're just, we're just a few are probably three months into this now. I mean, I have just gone back and forth. So and I'm just kind of stuck. And by the way, really not let me you were you were interviewing those six guys over and over again to try to inconsistencies that might arise or what was your result? Yes, yes. I mean, the whole thing because I've talked to one person, and then they would tell me a little something specific about one of the people and then I'd go back and try to bring that up, you know, and only one guy at a mall, lawyer it up. And I was on their asses. I mean, I was down there a lot as much as I possibly could. And then detective that was working down there was keeping eyes on him and all of that stuff. So it just was going it's like I know who did it. But I just couldn't prove it. You know, I mean, it's just like in the prosecutors like, I'm not going to give you an arrest warrant. Like there's not enough, you know, so you just kind of have to almost put it on hold, work it a little bit but put it on hold and then and then we like we like to call the murder, God stepped in and I had learned that the main person had been killed by our Detroit connections killed by the so what was happening was, since my victim was going to court, there were still other people that we're in Detroit. So my my, my main suspect was taking place taking the place of the victim of my victim and going up there because not everybody that had been arrested, and they didn't believe that he wasn't going to flip. So the next time he went up to Detroit to get the pills, they killed him. Okay. So, so as far as the others, I never could, I could never erase them. They would never let me erase them because I really didn't have any, any witnesses. You know, they all i I'll tell you that for for, you know, they were pretty educated. They were going to college. They were in this game for a long time. I think this had been going on for a long, long time. But they never cracked I could never get them to crack. It was the craziest thing. And so really, they got away with murder. Like they absolutely got to win and finding out that the main guy, you know, the main guy was the one they were afraid of right. He's the one that got killed. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he's the one who killed him, the Detroit guys, the Detroit connections, but that was that was concretely solved. Oh yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, he was he had gone yep, yep. Everyone, so and no other names, you know no other names because the people in Detroit like the suspects in Detroit that killed my main guy. They didn't even know these piddly people down in Bloomington. Right. They were Yeah, they were worth removed. They were the little so they didn't even know they existed. So these little fuckers literally got away with murder and stabbing them. And like I said, The autopsy revealed four stab wounds. Which I do believe that the main guy was probably the one that did the four major step, because these kids like they were, they'd been arrested before for like just marijuana and stupid stuff. But they weren't like killers. And every time I interviewed them, they were scared to death. But I could never get them to crack. I mean, they they practiced that store and I was threatened, I'm gonna come back and get you if this takes my whole entire life. Like, I just knew that they were, I knew that they were involved, and they literally got away with it. But I also believe Karma is a bitch. And you know, but this has been, this would have been 2000 2001. So who knows what their lives are about now, right? I mean, right? Like they they literally got away with murder. Wow, it's one of those things when the main guy gets gets killed or dies. Everyone's like, oh, oh, I got away with it because he won't be able to flip. Okay, so I have a question. So when you said that the strippers first you interviewed the strippers, then you interviewed all six guys. And the six guys have the same story, which was, he was really drunk, but he met a girl and we all wanted to leave. So we left and we left him there. Did you go back to the strip club to ask the strippers? Oh, that's true. Yeah. I mean, that was never. What's interesting is is that they, you know, once they were done, you know, servicing him all night, they all left as a group. They all he left with them. And all the strippers said, No, they didn't leave here. No, he didn't. Oh, yeah. I mean, this, this investigation went on forever that I became friends. It's so funny. Because when I first were interviewing them that, you know, they're half naked, and then they're in their element of work, you know, when I would leave my business card, and then as I would get new information, or get information that saying, hey, they're saying that he was there with with another girl, did you ever see, but I'd go back and re interview them or ask them to come to the office, you know, they would come in their normal clothes and, you know, didn't look like anything like bubbles, right? You know, even surnames, you know, they'd come and it's super intelligent. And I would always ask, like, I was always intrigued by it, you know, and they're like, they're out. They were all in school. And in the in the in the profession that most of them were studying. It was nursing. Interesting. Yeah. And that they just super smart. They get, they would go to Indiana University. A lot of them. They're like, this pays, this pays the bills. And I'm like, What do you make a light and they go, Oh, we make his it's literally off a major interstate. So you've got a lot of truck drivers. There's like the strip club. There's like the Waffle House. There's like a gas station. And it's busy all the time. But do you remember did very made hundreds and hundreds, hundreds and hundreds? Yeah. And then they got somebody like my victim where there would be a group of people. And they were doing I mean, he got 100 lap dances that night. Easy, you know? Yeah. But yeah, it was just so interesting. Because it was like this different world. They come in and, and they were never afraid to give me information. They weren't like, oh, I don't want to get involved there. They love to talk and the information that they have. I mean, they're fucking unbelievable. Like, I was like, Can I have your number? Like, you guys are great pieces of information. You know, I mean, they were and they didn't care. They did not care about helping, you know, they come down, and it was just so weird to see him, you know, at the club, and then see him again, you know, when they come to the office, but I love them. So whenever, you know, there was a strip club murder, or you hear you know, they were at the club or murder. I'm like, they're the best people. They will talk talk, talk, talk, talk. They're not afraid to get involved. Not afraid to get involved. So I learned a lot about because, you know, once you interview him, you're like, how long have you been doing this? And how did you get in it? And like, you know, because I just didn't look, they did when they were at the club. They absolutely look like strippers. But when they came and talked to me outside, it was just like, Wow, you're so smart. It's like, I'm super smart. I, I've always I'm almost done paying for nursing school, like, Okay, what am I doing? Did they realize how dangerous it was to be in that profession? And they were putting themselves? I mean, how did they? How did they protect themselves from the risks involved in that? They I don't know. I think that like, the thing I noticed about them is none of them seem scared. They all had an edge. Like if you were to meet them in a back alley, they beat the shit out. You know, I mean, it just they just never were, you know, and if you had to have, I guess out of the strip clubs that I've been in, that was the nicer of them. So I guess you get what You pay for a little nicer clientele. But you know, the people that work there, they took care of them the strippers, you know, the bouncers and those types of people. But they all had an edge. They absolutely had an edge to them. And now I never got the impression that they were scared. No, they were great. So, it it was an interesting case, but it was a very tiring and long case. And it still kind of bites me a little bit because those guys literally got away with an animal thing. I don't think that any of them stabbed him. Their staff really healed them. I don't believe that. Yeah, but they were there. And I don't know that they wanted to be there. And but yeah, they all and that explains the whole 100 over 100 stab wounds like Hey, okay, here's the knife. You've got to stab them to Oh, you got your turn. Right, you know, right. So, but anyways, I think if that guy hadn't been arrested, I don't know that I would have ever gotten a break in the case. But you know, Karma is a bitch. And my main suspect got killed and who knows what's going on with the other the other four follow up on some of them was you know what happened? Right? Right. But my blood boiling I mean, I can kind of feel and now they just were irritating as fuck. They just are so irritating to me, but I couldn't get out. I mean, they just decided they were in on this and they were sticking with it. And you were good liars. We were good liars. Scary. So so that's my stripper story. Yeah, yeah, it was an interesting one. Especially when I didn't know who my victim was. And you know man and one man are just like I'm not helping you the other one like I'll help you crack the case. So anyways, yeah, way you describe it I could just see a super sparkle in his eyes like yes, yes, my brain. Here's my time to shine. So exactly. Colleen is now back in the States with us. So that's good to know he got home safely and a good trip. And we appreciate you guys listening and the ideas that you give me to kind of profile these cases we love that. So the person that gave me the information on the Laura Jean Mitchell case I wanted to give you a shout out but my phone died and I lost her contact. So please message me again because I want to give you a shout out on giving me that case. I appreciate it. And if you guys have any cases at all that you want me to look at, just reach out to me. We will see you next time on murder with mannina. 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