Something is Happening on Rainey Street Part 2

Picking up where we left off... Bodies are being pulled from Lady Bird Lake in Austin, TX with mysterious frequency.  Is this the work of a serial killer?   Does this add credence to the Smiley Face Killer theory?   What is happening on Rainey Street?  Austin realtor Jessica Yang  joins us to share a local's perspective and answer Chris's questions about the area. 

Transcript

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People just want to know what it's like to be me. How does it feel to see a dead body? Tell a family their loved one has been murdered, talk to a rape victim, catch a killer and get them to confess. Hold on tight my friends. Get ready for the journey and welcome to murder with mannina. Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of murder with mannina. We are part two of ladybird Lake murders drownings, death investigations, I don't know. If you listen to part one, we went through several bought several cases where bodies were recovered from Lady Bird Lake and it seems to be pretty suspicious. Some of the autopsy reports don't really give a a cause and manner of death. And it's just it's quite coincidental and it's a little bit scary what goes on in this lake. But we'll start with I left off in 2014, where at least four bodies were discovered in the lake, and then in 2012, on January 14 of 2012, and unidentified man was found dead in the lake in 2008. On Monday of April 15 2008, a passerby on a hike and bike trail on Lady Bird Lake spotted a body floating near the shore. It was an Austin school teacher and peace activist. Ride Hammad hope I said that right. Hemanth eyes are covered in duct tape in his legs and hands were also bound. Austin PD ruled it a suicide because the Biden's and tape could have been self applied. There was evidence on security footage and in a lot where his car was parked and statements from persons who knew him said that he had been experiencing suicidal thoughts. Ahmad family believes he was the victim of a political killing because he was an outspoken advocate for the rights of the Palestinian people, the founder of the Palestinians children's welfare fund, and he objected strongly to Israel and the US policy in the Middle East. It fell autopsy was performed, it was concluded that there was no evidence of traumatic injury. It's crazy. I don't know about the duct tape and all of that. But you never know. You know, it just seems unrelated. And when you had the nut when you stated the number of bodies in the last eight years, that goes back to 2015. These are 2012 to 2014 2012. There were also bodies pulled but they were under the identity was never released cause of death, none of the details. I have no idea if they're related, not related. And then in 2008 This appears on the in social media, this list is gone kind of viral everywhere you see a list of bodies pulled with their list goes all the way back to 2008. seems completely separate. Not at all related. And also the other one, which you're going to you're describing a moment also seems unrelated to the other deaths on the lake that the bodies pulled from the lake However, it's also another incredibly mysterious death which so I thought it was worth mentioning. Yeah, okay, so this one is Sunday, June 1 2008. Two fishermen found a badly decomposed and recognizable body on the lake police identified her as a 26 year old Zima hibel. I hope that's right cousin of her said that. The devil was headed to a grocery store on 930 Thursday evening and never returned. She was reported missing by her family just after 8am The following morning. Zima that was her nickname? Yeah, a preschool teacher at Primrose school in Lakeway, Texas was engaged in the mother, a two year old daughter, please said there was no indications of foul play. But her family believes there's more to the story behind her disappearance because for one thing, the grocery store she was headed to isn't even near the lake. So even though like you made a good point, calling that these don't seem to be related. They're related into the effect that they're near the lake or in the lake. Right. Right. That's one thing that is common between that's the one absolutely tie so Austin Police Department response to online speculation released a statement saying that works with the Travis County Medical Examiner's Office, which conducts parallel investigation as in performs the autopsies. The result of these autopsies have not revealed any trauma to the bodies nor indication of foul play. It's unclear whether those autopsies also included toxicology panels. Austin PD has gone on to say one common theme of the drownings in Austin is a combination of alcohol and easy access to ladybird Lake. Basically, they theorized that at least some of the men went to the lake to pee and fell in. It was stated that in the cities no for their nightlife, their bodies of water, it is not uncommon for people to drown accidentally after an evening out on the town. According to the CDC, men are especially vulnerable due to risk taking behaviors and alcohol use at this time. At this point, ADP does not believe the cases are connected. ADP, meaning Austin Police Department we have joining us a very special guest on this episode, Jessica Yang is the friend who brought this story to my attention. And also the cases in Chicago, which we will talk about on the next episode. And they mirror what's going on in Austin pretty closely. So Jessica is an Austin local, she lives there, she moved there from San Diego. And Chris, you had some questions about just the area in general about you know, that kind of thing. And then we can also talk about what's showing up on social media with regards to this case. And then your final sort of overview and take on the situation. And Jessica has her own podcast called Storytellers. And I would love for you to describe what your podcast is about Jessica, and then we'll get back into the questions. Thank you for having me. I love to interview and I meet a really amazing people here in Austin, what I do is just bring these people on and just talk about what they do. There's just so many people that need a platform. And it's always really nice to talk to these individuals. Great. Thanks. Yeah, that's fantastic. So I'm just gonna apologize before it is such a shitty day out here in Indianapolis. My dogs are stuck inside. So they're playing. So if that happens, and you hear what's happening in my house, it's a crazy house today. So if you hear that that's a you know, hopefully we have a lot I'm sure we have a lot of animal lovers and dog lovers that listen to the podcast. So I think it's interesting that you're that you love to have people tell their stories, right. So that kind of coincides with what I did professionally for a long time as a homicide detective is allow people to tell their stories. And you know, always starting out my interviews, especially with homicide suspects. And the stretch of you know, you didn't wake up today thinking you were going to murder anybody, how did we get here? And then the backstory and the story behind that backstory, and all of that kind of led to the confessions or questions that I needed answer for my investigation. So that's very, very cool. So let me start with this. So we went through all of these things. And, you know, in my 52 years on this earth, yeah, I believe that there aren't a lot of coincidences. I feel like there are some, but I'm not a big believer. I'm probably a little bit jaded due to my background in law enforcement. But tell me a lot. Well, first of all, are you from Austin? No, I've been here now about two years. Okay. So yeah, I visited Austin once and I saw that there's so much promise being from San Diego, just it just felt right. Just to take the chance. Oh, good for you. So let me ask you this. Have you been to ladybird lake? I have I actually lived in one of the high rises. I just moved out a couple months ago. But I've also walked around Lady Bird Lake at night by myself. Okay, that don't do that. Don't do that. Let's start here. real basic stuff I believe in don't doing I don't even know if I would go. I'd take my gun. But I don't know that I would go over there. I don't think good things happen there. Okay. So that's good. Because I like, you know, with researching these cases and trying to get a mental picture of what it looks like. It's obviously not far from an area where there's bars and a lot of nighttime activity. What would you say? You know, as far as like, and I think we mentioned a little bit it's not far from downtown, like, how long of a walk would it be to? From the bars to the lake? A few minutes. Yeah, have a walk. Okay, because that whole street called Rainey street. But back in the day, you know, I wasn't around by just hearing it from logos to they used to be residential bungalows, which now have been turned into high rises where they also have bars and food food trucks. So it gets really, really packed on the weekend. Okay. Okay. So and you went and visited. So can you imagine based on what you're seeing that people are getting drunk at the bars walk into the lake and falling in? Could you see it happening when you were definitely not my residents before for it was probably only like a 1015 minute walk to the lake. But I would walk over there and the time that I did take my run, I realized like, wow, this is really dark. There's no lights. So we kept losing Jessica, because just the connection wasn't strong enough. So instead, Jessica called in and she'll be continuing the interview on the phone. So Jessica, pick up where we left off. Chris had asked you about the lake and you said that you used to run around The Lake and you lived close to it. Yeah. Awesome. still fairly a small city. So during the day is when it's would be packed or evening. But when it gets really, really dark, especially even it doesn't matter if it's on the weekends. I just really don't see anybody wanting to go straight to the lake. I think that I bought this, this is probably falsified, and it really just doesn't make sense. Just to get lost wander out there. So with you living there now and, you know, we talked about in the first episode, the four bodies have been found in Lady Bird Lake, what's the media? What's the media speculating? Are they still talking about it every day? Or where are they at with it now? I'm Austin police actually sent out a statement on Twitter. I think maybe it was last week or two weeks ago by now saying that they definitely think it's foul play. And they should they're just telling citizens to be more careful. But because of I think in that Facebook group, there's a Facebook group called Serial Killer lady life because no people that live in the area are taking it upon themselves making the basically the problem go viral. So now with reaching so many 1000 members, there definitely has now been more police activity and people are just, you know, being way more cautious. I don't know if you guys know. But last week, they actually found another body near the dam. Yes, we know the lat the Longhorn was at Longhorn fan. Yeah. Yep. Yes. Right Longhorn dam. So, you know, Jessica, I wanted to ask you have you do you know of anyone who has been refeed? Have you? Do you know of any of those stories? Because I did see a few of the accounts on social media. One girl, one of my friends she mentioned to me, it happened to her recently. That's all happened to her a couple of years ago. Her suspicion is it might have been a bartender because she was with her boyfriend at the time. So it wouldn't make sense. I mean, maybe her boyfriend but yeah. There are people speculating it could be bartenders. Yeah. But I guess the question too, is if it's the bartenders, it, it could be absolutely. But how are they getting down to the lake? Like, that's, to me? That's the the big question. Right there. So there is also what I mentioned about now, bungalows being turned into residential high rises, there's actually a few residences that are at the end of the trail, and then connect them to Lady Bird Lake. One is called the Mulago. And that one has a backdoor entrance. So there's all these hypothesis out that like, someone could definitely be putting bodies nearby or even at the Holiday Inn. There has been it's been spooky, discovering there. What are those at the holiday? And what are those? What are those discoveries? From what I read, it's that because of how short of a distance it is to there, and from there, and nobody really bats an eye, it's an old, it's an old building, so it's not a thing and luxurious. People are just making claims. And then there has been bodies I think, dumped near the Holiday Inn because the connector, the lake connects over there to wow, okay, that's just, I mean, oh, my gosh, this is so crazy. I still it just begs the question of how they're getting to the to the lake, I get the holiday and thing. It's got to be somebody local. I mean, what is the media or your speculation or what thinking it's a serial killer at this point? Have the police use the word serial killer? No, because I you know, the police doesn't want to scare people. They also don't want to scare tourism. But citizens that live here or you know, just know about this problem. They're very scared or interested. Right, it's probably a combination of both so well, I love that the social media has kind of blown up a little bit. What what are the families talking about these people? What are their take? Some family are speaking out. The people that have you know, been victims in the past. I think some of them just are speaking about our story describing what happened. I think the people the families that haven't their loved ones didn't make it that no one is not expecting foul play. Yeah, so I think that Okay, so the victim's families believe there's more behind their desk, despite early investigations finding right no foul play, along with social media contributors. They post that in recent years, at least five men have been found in like under similar circumstances. They went out with friends, they got separated friends left and didn't contact family members until the next afternoon or night. And if someone had a type, all of these men would fit it, right. Yeah, they theorized that these victims are being drunk drugged, or something that is not showing up in a standard autopsy testing, which could be very true. Reddit and Facebook, they're sharing their stories of being refeed and claimed that they've been reading and hearing about it happening for years on Rainey street. A lot of questions being asked like, why would there be multiple stories of men blacking out after only one or two drinks? They've also said they don't understand how going to the water to pee or just walking into the water in general and falling has resulted in death this many times. The water is shallow. Is the water shallow? Yes. People actually go there sometimes to go ahead and paddleboard. And it's not deep at all. There are actually some other people on the Facebook post the social media post that even suspect it's the smiley face killers. Yeah, right. I read about that, too. The Smiley Face killers could be a potential same thing. And she's in Chicago. Yeah, no. Well, so I think it's interesting that the water is shallow, right? Like, I mean, you can drown in shallow water, it doesn't happen with adults very often. But if they have something in their system that's affecting their behavior, but it's still I still don't have the answer to the question of how are they good? Why are they going down to the lake? That would be a good thing to try to really focus on is how is whoever if there's somebody doing this, if there is a serial killer? How is he getting these guys to go to the lake? That's I think we answer that question, we'll find out a whole bunch of other information. So I think, trying to figure out like, I don't think anybody that's going out on Rainey Street, good time with friends or thinking that they're going to go to the lake after they party. How are they getting to the lake? Why are they going to the lake? Right? I personally think it's more than one person, there may be a female involved, because these a lot of these victims are men. There's a specific style to maybe like the same colored hair, the age, there's like an age range that these victims are in. And they're just getting roof feed, maybe the bartender and you know, once it gets too drunk, a lot of these people don't know what they're getting themselves into, you know, like, if you're, if you're in your 20s, and you kind of get blacked out drunk, someone offers you help maybe like a pretty woman, you're more than willing to follow through. Yeah, and that has ties to the story, because you don't have very many female serial killers. So if this is a serial killer, you know, I mean, I mean, I, I buy that theory to a degree, especially in it, even if they're not blacked out if they think maybe they're going down to the lake to have sex, or something to that degree that would get them down there as well. There's no trauma. Okay, first of all, wouldn't the roofie drug show up on a toxicology report? Or do you think it's possible that they haven't run that test? Well, I think it's possible. I don't know why they're not running it now. Or if they are running it now they should be back in the day. No, I don't know, on cases that are happening here and there that they would they will run out, but they absolutely need to run it now. And then the other question I have for you is because there's no trauma or sexual I guess they would be able to tell if there was sexual molestation involved in any way or that because there's nothing like that no trauma at all. What would the possible motive be? Would it just be control of killing somebody why they just push somebody in the lake and that's satisfying enough? What is it? Well, the satisfaction is happening now. We're talking about it on a podcast, or we're talking about it on social media. Oh, I see. That does make sense then. But the power of like, yeah, absolutely. I mean, it could be a scorned ass women that's been treated like shit with men look like these victims. And that's how she's getting who knows. I mean, that's when you figure out the motive. You can always figure out the case. Now we're just theorizing a little bit but it's just interesting that the water is so shallow and but They are, you know, like you said, kind of fitting the same profile. You got to look outside of the box. And hopefully they I don't think I'm trying to think when I did the autopsies, alcohol drugs, but I don't know that Rufus was there. I didn't find that out. It's a good question. It seems like especially in this case, that would be standard that they would test for that. And by the way, for any listeners who haven't heard of the smiley face killers, basically it was in 1997. To retired New York City detectives Kevin Gannon and Anthony Duarte and criminal justice professor and gay expertly Gilberton, advanced a smiley face murder theory. They believed that a string of young men found dead and bodies of water across several Midwestern states from the late 1990s to 2000 10s was the work of a serial killer or a group of serial killers. After 2008, they evolved their theory to believe that there is actually it's a multi state gang of killers. And they operate much like a gang were they that they're well structured and organized with cells in major cities around the states. And they say that each city could have between eight and 20 members, and the motive of the group remains unknown, but they're gang oriented, meaning the group chooses a narrow specific group to target of victims to target and these detectives have investigated the deaths of at least 45 college aged men who were found dead and was in the water in 11. States in the early 2000s. And they have currently 681 cases in their database that they believe will be connected the FBI, they don't believe that this could be happening. That nonprofit center for homicide research in Minneapolis also released a report debunking the smiley face killer theory, due to a lack of physical evidence of a serial killer, no signs of torture or blunt force trauma on the bodies that could point to the deaths being homicides. So anyway, there you have it for any of the listeners that aren't familiar with the smiley face killer theory, however, now with all of these bodies, you know, being pulled from Lady Bird Lake from Lake Michigan and the Chicago River and, and you know, I'm sure there's others in other parts of the country. Now, the smiley face killer theory is obviously showing up a lot again, on social media. Well, I caution, you know, you have to just come in from law enforcement, sometimes I'll debunk stuff, because I want the attention to get off of it. Right. So I don't know that I buy it completely, that they're debunking it completely. With this much media attention and this much going on. It does cause some problems when you have all of these theories and you're trying to run down everything. But I don't always believe one Forsman says that they debunk it, because they just, they're just, I don't buy that that could be it could be very much late, they just don't want everybody in there, brother. Because if they say, hey, it's possibility, it's the smiley face killers, then that just brings a whole source of other people, you know, calling in tips and calling in theories, and it makes it difficult. So they could have very well debunked it, but and not to mention the fear element. Well, like Jessica mentioned that how that would affect tourism in those cities. I mean, we talked about this a lot with the political aspect of it and cases getting prosecuted and, and all those types of things. But I just always caution that just because the FBI, I mean, everyone's like, Oh, if the FBI debunked it, it's not an unlined as bullshit. You know, sway the attention somewhere else? Yeah, the reports on their bodies, I wish some of them has been released. Like you said, No blunt force or no trauma, but a lot of these bodies also don't have water inside their lungs. So I personally think just from viewing it and viewing this as a third outsider perspective, that if you look at the date, I don't think these bodies are dumped right away. And then also, they're probably potentially killed even before being dumped. That's a definite possibility. You know, and evidently back all the way to when we were talking, what 2008 You can dump bodies there and kind of get away with it. Other than the one arrest that was made pretty quickly, you know, these are these are not being treated as criminal cases because of what the autopsy is saying. And like I mentioned in part one, it's when you have an autopsy report that says no blunt trauma, it's not investigated as a crime. You know, that's why we do autopsies on suicide. So is that a homicide or suicide? You know, we're trying to answer those questions, but like everything else, you know, there's ways around it and there's a possibility that this is a serial killer and they're getting away with it for this long because they are getting medical examiners just say There's no blunt trauma, you know, and they're not testing for the roofie. And they're not going forward. And I can't believe I would imagine that they are now they would have to. There's just too many bodies. There's just there's obviously something going on, you know? Right. Right. There's the police and the law enforcement. They're traveling, they're looking at that area pretty closely. Now. What's weird to me is that me as being someone that's ran on the lake at night, I won't ever do that again. But there's no lights out there. And there's no cameras, as it seems. Right? So it seems like it's hard to even catch someone because they're not putting in the necessary precautions. Well, it's perfect dumping ground, right, like, and so I'll start by saying, don't do that ever again, don't run out there alone at night, but, you know, social media and just you being a local, I mean, if you were to a dump a body, that'd be a great place to do it. Right. And people know that. So if we are dealing with a serial killer, they're watching all of the media attention. They're, they're paying attention to what's going on. And you know, are they could you put undercover officers out there? Absolutely. Stick them up in frickin trees, stick them somewhere. I mean, if they really wanted to catch this, there's enough bodies that are going in there that could probably get some information. But of course, that's manpower. And logistically, how are you going to do that? But possibility? I've climbed trees before to look at people's houses and to get information, you know, you got to do you got to do, how bad? Do you want to get these cases solved. And I think if the media is in what the police is, it's a double edged, you do not want to scare everybody, and you don't want tourism to go down. I get that. But if there's not enough media attention, then you don't have enough people looking in really trying to stop this right. There's not a lot of pressure. I don't know what the families are doing on this. I mean, they're it they're being interviewed and saying they don't believe it, but what kind of pressure are they putting on investigators, you know, to work undercover. So we have undercover units. Right. Right. I think it's interesting that the that the Austin Police Department is now saying they do believe there could be foul play involved. So that turned a corner. As we are speaking right now I'm, I got a notification for the Lady Bird Lake as your killer. There has been another blocked off cautioned with police, often as we're speaking right now. So they're close. I mean, they're getting on it. And it's it seems to be that it's happening more and more. So whoever's responsibility or who's responsible for doing this, it appears at this point that it needs to be doing it more and more. They're kind of coming quickly. Absolutely, absolutely love the attention. So they'll figure it out. I think, you know, it'll break eventually. But it's, it's an interesting case. But once the motive is is found out, and how are we luring our victims to the lake. And it's really, I've said this before, it's very difficult to kill somebody else, and then transport the body. So risky. But with you say in the lay of the land, you've got somebody in a car, can you drive up pretty close to the water? I would say there, you definitely can. Just maybe like you can get 4050 feet away. And it's right there. So it could be simple. As you know, a woman walking up to a guy that's been refeed are feeling sick and offering and help and saying I'll take you home and you know, and they just take him to the lake and dump them tonight, because maybe either everyone else is too drunk, or they just they don't see that as abnormal. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that behavior isn't something that standing out at the bars, made it there. It's like the victims are walking to their own death willingly. They may not be all together, and they may be roofie to sick or, but they're not being forced. And that's what makes this a little bit more difficult. Because it's like, whoa, nobody's saying, oh my god, I just saw this guy getting forced into a car. They're not even talking about them having an argument in a bar, like none of that stuff. So they're almost walking to their desk. So at this point, you know, you wonder, are they getting into a vehicle? Is it an Uber driver? And I like that where they are doing it pretty willingly and then it's pretty easy to dump them. It's that dark to pull up the close to the water, get them out of the car and leave them in the water. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a interesting location. Yeah. Yeah, I would put surveillance I want to just go climb a tree and wait for the next body start paying attention to what cars are pulling in there. Right? It does seem like it's it's happening with highly increased frequency. I'm on Twitter right now and I'm looking at you know, bunch of people who've posted about it and it's crazy. I mean, it's just like what's happening in Austin, Texas, Austin police deny rumors of a serial killer. But this week, a fourth body is pulled from ladybird Lake, eight bodies have been found in just 10 months is rumors of a serial killer swirl on social media. And then you look at pictures of the victims. And they're all the same age. They all have a lot of things in common. It's a type, but not all, you know, not everybody, then there's others that don't coincide with the group of that victims that have similarities. Well, it's probably becoming more frequent, because it's getting more attention. Right? Like, he's, it's you crave it and you're like, Wow, I'm getting this much. I'm going to do another one. Because now people are going, Oh, now it's eight in the last, you know, however long oh my god, now it's nine. I mean, that's all stuff that people would that psychology, those sicknesses. Whatever the case may be, they live on that shit, they have to have attention. And he actually probably wants to get caught to a degree to be famous. Yeah, he or they right? Because the smiley face killer theory would play into how this is also happening in Chicago. And in short, which we'll talk about on the next episode. And Jessica, shout out to Jessica and thank you for also bringing that to my attention. Yeah, Jessica, you're a wealth of information. Well, and the thing too, is, is is he working alone, because you start working with other people. And it's it's even riskier, but could just be one person to get away with it this long. You know, you have to keep that shit to yourself. He started talking about if that's how you get caught. It'll be interesting to houses. And so I thank you so much, Jessica. But my whole thing, like I'll end it like, don't go running out there. Keep your head on a swivel. People in Austin and unready straight, pay attention to your surroundings. You know, just be smart about a bit. But be vigilant, pay attention. Pay attention, because you don't want that to happen to you. So thank you guys for having me. This was really great. Hey, and if any of if any of you listeners want to move to Austin, Jessica, we'll find you a place to live because she's a real estate agent. That's why you moved there in the first place. Right? Yeah, exactly. I know a lot of people are coming here, just because of how much growth there is. I mean, this whole serial killer thing. I don't think it'll stop people from coming. It will definitely make people become more wary of going out in that area. Well, and I and I tell you that when you're showing these houses or apartments, be careful if you're by yourself while you're doing that. Right. Yeah, that's something to think about too. Yeah. world is a scary place. So thanks again. And what is the title of your podcast, storytellers, storytellers? Well, best of luck to you. And thanks again and keep us apprised. Thanks, everyone, for listening, check out part one of man, the crazy Lake story and again, review and rate us and thanks again, send us the stories that interests us and the stories that captivate you that haven't been solved, we'll talk about them and if you'd like to be on our podcast, we'd love to have you. Thanks again and we will see you next time on murder with mannina. If you have a cold case you'd like Chris to review submitted through our website at murder with mannina.com and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at murder with mannina and Twitter at murder W mannina. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode of murder with mannina.