Three Sisters

Dorothy Hill, Debbie Wilson, and Tammy Alford share a tragic bond. Their sisters were murdered over 40 years ago in Louisville, KY and the three cases appear to be connected.  What makes this long journey to justice even more frustrating is that DNA collected from one of the victims was linked to a convicted murderer. So why haven't these cases been solved? 

Transcript

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People always want to know what it's like to be me. How does it feel to see a dead body? Tell a family their loved one has been murdered, talk to a rape victim, catch a killer and get them to confess hold on time my friends. Get ready for the journey. And welcome to murder with Mannina. Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of murder with mannina. Colleen, how does it feel to be back in home in the country and in one place? I loved the traveling super grateful for that experience. I accomplished what I needed to from it. And I'm just as happy to be back home. Well, that's that's my whole point of asking you this is I've known calling for a few years now and for her to say that she's glad to be home and not traveling anymore. I was like wow. This girl will travel anywhere. I'm like, I'm going to Ohio. Okay, welcome. Like it's it's crazy. So good. Well, I'm glad you know San Diego, I kind of get my butt out there. So nice out there. Yeah, I'm telling you Indianapolis is on crack. It was like 82 degrees, t shirt out run in sweating live in life. And then it's like 39 today. And we wonder why we're all just like, I'm not kidding you, Indiana. Indianapolis is just on crack. It's not fun. But we're gearing up, of course for the Indy 500. That's going to happen in May. And who knows sometimes, you know that that 500 race, it'll be like 90 degrees and horrible. And then other times it's cold, you just never know what you're gonna get here. And they say if you want to know, you know, just wait 15 minutes in Indiana and the weather will change. And that is true. So it's just a it's just a group like that in Dallas to you know, I fly standby. Yeah. And I always avoid routing my flights through Dallas, because so many times I've been in Dallas, and I've checked the weather and it's fine. 15 minutes later, there's a blizzard and that slump flights are canceled. And it's crazy. Yeah, yeah. So anyways, all right, well, I'll tell you what I need to give a shout out to Karen pocket, who turned me on to this cold case that we're going to talk about today. So thank you very, very much, Karen pocket. Thank you for listening. Thank you for taking the time to reach out to me. And we are going to talk about this cold case. So I am going to start it off with a quote. And the quote is this. This is a club no one wants to be a member of. But once you're a member, you are just connected by it. That is a quote another quote, it's a matter of you have to keep living even though they didn't get to. And that quote was made by Dorothy Hill. Another quote, it took me years before I would even talk about it. And that quote was from Debbie Wilson. My third quote, we just want to get some type of closure says Tammy offered three quotes and I'm starting with that. Those quotes for a reason. So all three of these women unfortunately, share a bond. All three sisters of these women were murdered. In August of 1980, Angie Hills body was found in an industrial park on Richmond Road, and her car was found off of Melbourne drive in the lake shore area of Monroe, Louisiana, and Louisiana has a lot of cold cases. She was last seen the day before on July 31 of 1980. Dorothy Hill her sister describes Angie as being so sweet. If she only had $1 on her and you needed it. She would give it to you. Less than a year later. Okay, now we're in the into the April of 1981. The body of Kathy Wharton was found on McGuire Ranch Road place found her abandoned car near then northeast Louisiana University where she attended college. Less than an hour later and an anonymous tip was called in and led them to her body. She had been shot in the head twice. The case was closed very quickly. Now listen to this. This case was closed very quickly because in the early 1980s to and famous serial killers, oldest Elwood and Henry Lee Lucas confessed to her murder and several others. The district attorney said there was a lot of suspicion that the case had been closed too soon, in part because there were two other female victims in the area that were murdered. That were identically murdered. Okay. Both have been cleared because they were in other states. So the case was closed very quickly because in the early 1980s, two infamous serial killers Otis Elwood and Henry Lee Lucas confessed to her murder and several others. Okay, so they close the case really, really quick, because these two serial killers confessed to it. The district attorney though said there was a lot of suspicion that the case had been closed too soon. And part because there were two other female victims in that area that were murdered and identify it that were murdered identically okay. But both had been cleared. Both of these two serial killers that confessed to it had been cleared of the murders later on. So they closed it. And that's what's so jacked up. And it's an every single profession. I swear to God, it's somebody confesses to something you close it right, they said that they did it but good investigators, or at least in my opinion, what makes you a good investigator is you can't just stop when somebody confesses, because people confess to shed all the time that they didn't do. And that is the situation and this, these two guys didn't kill this woman. Okay, they weren't even in the state. They were in other states. But so the investigation stopped right on her and why Chris, do people confess to murder? So they don't they want to be famous. What is that about? Oh, my God, like that is the it's the Yes. They want to be famous. They I think it just comes down to that at the end of the day, I think it's just they want to be famous. They want the attention. They want. Kudos for it, you know, but, I mean, why do people do what they do? Why do why do people turn into serial killers? I mean, we could talk about this all day on day, I haven't had, I don't know that I've had a confession where they didn't do it. I don't think that I have in my entire career had somebody confess to something that they didn't do. But when they're infamous serial killers, or they think they're infamous serial killers, they like to do it. And that's the thing and sercos do the opposite to right. They tell you about some of the victims and then they keep some of them hidden. Right? Even though they're gonna go away for 1000 years, or they're gonna get the death penalty. They'll never see the light of day. They sometimes do not tell you where the other bodies are. What's the psychology behind that? That's so weird. Power, power. Oh, I'm gonna give you a little bit. But I know it's so weird. Yeah, I mean, serial killers. I mean, a lot of it is power. Right? And, and especially with like, I feel like Bundy had a lot more than what they even what they even found. So okay, in February of 1982, the body of sherry offered was found in her car along Highway 139. And these are all in the same areas. This is the same general area where the cars of the other two women were found. Okay, so they were all in cars. All the cars were found, okay. This is why at this point in time, the sisters think that the cases are related. Okay. Very, very obvious to me. Common sense would tell you that, okay. The sister of Angie Hill said you feel alone, you feel like you're the only one. Then number two happens. And you think, oh my God, then number three happens. And you think oh my god, you know what they are going through, you know what they're going through? You know what, because you're going through it yourself. So these three sisters that have are these three women all have sisters that are murdered, and they're all kind of going through this journey together, and they are the ones that got together and said, we think that these cases are related so all three sisters believe the killer or killers took the woman from desolate streets are desolate areas where they lived or worked. All three bodies were left near highway 165. So they were either taken from work, or they were taken. You know when they stopped at a gas station or whatever. Alfred said her sister's car was left running with the radio and headlights on in the middle of the road. Offer thinks that her sister's murder was interrupted before she could be taken the murders of Wharton and hill they were taken from their cars murder rate and then dumped Sherry offered was killed on the spot. Okay, so she wasn't moved. Probably exactly right with the sister thinks it was interrupted at that point, but all of them were murdered and raped. Okay. The family these women are still looking for answers. Okay. Hill says you just get eaten up inside my mother and father died with not knowing who did this and I think I will too. i These women are amazing. They've been interviewed and interviewed and it's just literally literally eating them up inside. Offer. Just wish that sandplay Yeah offer just wish that someone with fresh eyes will look at the three cases in hopes it would be solved. Debbie Wilson In the sister of Kathy Wharton says a ring was taken from her sister that night she was murdered. And there was DNA evidence found on her who links to a man currently in prison. This is what pisses me off. So again, the ring of Cathy Warren was taken the night she was murdered. But there was DNA evidence that was found on her, and they've linked it to a guy in prison. His name is Anthony Wilson, but he has never been charged. She is just waiting for law enforcement to keep working him. And this is another thing that pisses me off, how the hell are you not working him all of the time when you have DNA? And another thing that pisses me off a little bit is that juries and district attorneys want DNA, and they fucking have it. You know what I mean? And this just gets into an a whole other conversation about the politics of these cases and the people they get elected to prosecute and things and we'll talk a little bit about that. Later, but so false confessions, we go back to the whole coffers false confessions. Over the years, they can really hurt the case, especially with infamous serial killers, the focus became on them. You know, it becomes and that's another reason why they do it. Right. They, they confess to it, because the focus then becomes on them. But the whole case is then forgotten about, right? Because Oh, we made the arrest. It's these guys are serial killers. But I can understand that they convince they they confess, but you've got to go further along. And if there's suspicion that this just doesn't seem right, it probably isn't. Right. Right. And then you got to get into the specifics of the crime. So if you're, if you're confessing to a colleague that you kill somebody, okay, I would ask you, well, how did you do it? You know? And if you said, Well, I shot them and they were stabbed. I mean, you know, you just got to ask it's common sense. You've got to question how did you do wherever you're at? Can you prove it's almost like you have to prove to me that you did it. Right. So you have to not let get you have to let not let it get cold. Okay, so another man, his name was Barry Beach, he confessed. And Isince wrote a letter. So he confessed that he did, too. And he wrote a letter to Debbie Wilson apologizing for interfering in the case, because of course, then they went and interviewed him, and they did a good job. Because they figured out that he didn't fucking do it either. Right? They went, they went a little bit further learning from serial killers, you know that people that are sitting in jail, confess, they like the attention. And even if it's the see attention, if you're sitting in jail for 10, or 15 or 20 years, or you've been in jail for a long time, and you can say, Oh, I did it, or I've got information, what do you get? Well, you get new people to come into the prison and interview you. So you get to see somebody new, which is a big deal. When you don't get to see people, somebody's coming to the person to interview you. And then you sit down in that interview you and they asked you if they can buy you a coke. Yeah, you may not have had a coke in 100 year, you know what I mean? So when you're living in plus, just I would imagine just the interruption of from boredom slowly in in the in the physical, you know, just having a conversation with somebody else other than people in prison, getting a piece of the outside world brought into the prison. What is enough for these guys to say I did it just to get that, you know, when you start to look at the psychology of all of that, but he wrote a letter to her saying I'm really, really sorry that I interfered in the case, and now I didn't have anything to do with your sister's murder. Okay, so right now, the family just want law enforcement to work together and continue to look at these cases. Wilson says the sheriff's office and Monroe city police have evidence they want and they want the coal keys team to work on it. However, there was some evidence that was lost evidently earlier in the investigation. So Debbie Wilson did reach out to two investigators in the case who said there had been five versus five or six suspects at the time, and the anonymous tip, the 911 caller who reported the body so there were some people five to six people. DNA was obtained, like I talked about from all from all but no hits. Other than that one, but then codice came into play and the evidence from Wharton's body hit on a career criminal Anthony Wilson. Most of the evidence in the Wharton murder was mysteriously lost. There was one shred of evidence from her undergarment that was still in storage and that's how they leaked it in 2080, in 2008, and got the name of Anthony Wilson At the time of the code is hit in 2008 Anthony gland Wilson, he was incarcerated on an unrelated charge. And this was when the code is hit was. And the prosecutor was concerned DNA alone might not be enough to convict since all other evidence was lost. He is currently in prison as a habitual offender serving life without parole. Law enforcement believes that he killed the woman, but just can't prove it. Okay, so it's so crazy. But back in this was the 80s. I think you hear about it a lot. You hear about a lot evidence being lost. In this in this case, they're talking about evidence being mysteriously lost. Whenever you hear the word mysteriously lost, you have to wonder, is it a cover up? You know, most of the time, in my experience, it's just a screw up. Somebody in the property room jacked something up, okay. With that being said, to present it to a jury. The district attorneys and law enforcement are supposed to be on the same team. And I know I've talked about this before, but they're supposed to be on the same team. But we're not right, the district attorney are only going to take cases that they can win, right there. These are elected officials usually, and they do not want on their conscious or on their record or on the next freaking commercial when elections come up, that they can't win cases. Okay. So that is their motive. Everybody has a motive for everything. All right. Law enforcement knows that this guy did it. There is DNA on her undergarments. These women were all raped. Okay, you have got to work at you have got to work at work at work at work at okay, so law enforcement believes it's him, the district attorney, and this is the thing, you got to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the minute if they were to arrest this guy. His defense attorney would go well, how do we know that he did it. There's evidence that's gone. There's evidence that's gone, right? That's going to be the defense attorneys play, you're going to convict my client on evidence that you said that you lost? Well, my client didn't do it. But maybe the evidence that you lost will lead you to the killer, right? And that's going to maybe raise doubt, okay. But you also have DNA. Okay. So this is how you do it, you work the shit out of it, you know that you have DNA, you know that you probably have the guy. All right, then you go and you work at like a mother effer. Okay, because most cases, you never have DNA that you can use. And it's such a crazy phenomena that people think it's easy to get because it's not, okay, there can be DNA left, that doesn't mean it's usable DNA, that doesn't mean that's enough DNA, and it doesn't mean that we're going to be able to link it back to somebody that's encoded. So you have to have everything working perfectly. Okay. But you do have DNA, so you know, that you have the right person, this guy is in prison, he's in prison for the rest of his life. You go back and you interview him, you go, Look, you're in here, regardless of this case, you're not you're in, you're in prison for the rest of your life. I maybe I can give you one more extra visit a month, you know, start to give him some things. Okay? He may he may bite on it. He may not let's say that he doesn't, okay. What you need to do is figure out the link. We have the DNA link, but the district attorney is worried that they're not going to be able to when you find some more links, you prove that that guy was in the area at the time of all three of these murders, you prove that you find out you interview people, did you see him? Was he at a gas station, you find every single baby mama you find the mother you find the pissed off girlfriend, you find everybody that knew him and you find another link that puts him there so that you have two things. I saw him in the area that all you need to do is say somebody says, You know what I did? I saw him in the area that night. I saw him in the area an hour before the murder. I saw him in the air what anything's car, some anything, anything, anything little, and then you take the DNA, you take another link, and then you take the fucking cord and you let the jury decide, because that's why we have this in this country to let the jury decide, right? Because even if you lose, let's just say that you lose in this particular case, you lose because somebody on the jury goes well, the police department did lose the evidence and it makes the police department look horrible. Even if it doesn't it's not the detectives fault, that the evidence was lost, whatever. But you've got somebody on the jury that's like, wow, the police seem a little bit incompetent because they lost the evidence. Even if you lose, you still tried. You still can tell the family we went after it and you're upfront with the family. You say you know what, this is going to be a tough case to win, but we believe because they said it and I read it in an article that law enforcement believed that he killed the women, not just the women where the DNA was found. But all three of these women in law enforcement believed that. And so you go as a detective and you say, Hey, I'm going to try to talk the district attorney into filing charges on this guy, because I believe in my heart, you know, and that sometimes has to be enough, right? Because you're living and breathing the case. You're the one that knows, the district attorney doesn't freakin know is that out there doing the blood, sweat and tears and interviewing people and running up and down and talking to people and interviewing people and sitting in people's living room and getting information. You're not doing all that shit? You are. So you're vested in your emotional in it, you've put a lot of time blood, sweat and tears into it. You know, if you've got the right person, you know it, you can feel it. Okay. And I do believe that law enforcement feels it. But the district attorney won't do it. And that's where the issue is. And I've always said that I get it. I get everybody has an agenda. But when you know, I've had I've had prosecutors at across the table when I'm presenting the case. Go detective. I know and you know that he did it. But we can't win it. Like are you fucking like it's it's heart wrenching? straighting oh, gosh, well, in this country? I do. I do believe in the proof beyond reasonable doubt. I think he got it me because you don't want to send somebody a prison that didn't do it. I believe in that whole proof, be it but but this is the thing. It's not proof beyond no doubt. It's proof beyond a reasonable doubt. So there can be some doubt. And I think people confuse that. If they're not 100%. Clear. They like to say not guilty. Because believe it or not, a lot of juries don't want to convict people. They just don't they feel that? Well, I don't want to put him and her away, you know, when you've got all of this fast, but what's so crazy about this case, is they have DNA, and you just don't get it very much. So I'm thinking to myself, the DEA say, well, we're not going to pursue this because we've only got DNA, and I think you know, with only DNA, we can't win it. Well, then get your ass get your Get Get off your ass and go find another link. That's what we like to call them. We like to link them, how do I link him to the scene? How do I even link him to the area? Why would he be in that area? Does he have a cousin? Does he have a brother? Does he have a drug deal or whatever, link up to that area, because then that builds it and then bam, you crush it with DNA. So this case is really really frustrating. I would love to get the sisters on, you know, the podcasts and have their perspective of it. Because that's mine. And you know, and that's the difference between personnel and detectives and their work ethic and how much do they believe in the case? And how, how well do they want to do the job? Because I think really, I think all the sisters believed that this guy did it. Right. And I think it would go a long way to just try to try the case, even if you lose, even if you lose, and luckily I haven't lost a murder case. But I've been around other officers and detectives that have lost cases and the families have gone up and said, You know what, you did everything you could, and that is our damn job to do everything we could but like everything else in this world, politics plays a role. Reputation plays a role and everyone's got their own motive. So frustrating case. But I would love to have the sisters on if anybody has any information about if anybody can link and say, You know what, I remember this case, and I can tell you that Anthony Wilson was in the area it anytime of these three women God reached out to me, and you know, and I'll call law enforcement myself or anyone that knew Anthony William. Yeah, maybe you interview him. Maybe he bragged to somebody, maybe he told somebody he did it, maybe well, and then they respected him. or coworkers, right? Yeah, yeah, maybe he worked in the area. Maybe he lived there. Maybe he had kids there. Maybe he was visiting his children, their family, anything relatives just cellmates. Soulmate, soulmate? I mean, what the hell do you have to do in prison, but didn't sit there and talk to your soulmate? And tell them everything that you did? Okay. I mean, it's just crazy. So I really, truly believe and I'm sure you can hear it, my voice is that this case is absolutely one of those that's just solvable. And it's just not it's just not happening like this. It's solved, right? It's not even solvable. It's solved. And that is not even that's not even looking at the freaking case file. That's just doing the research that I did. So if anybody has any information, please reach out to me. I will absolutely. call law enforcement. But if you want to call law enforcement yourself, the number is 318-329-1200 or Crimestoppers at 318-388-2274 and Debbie Wilson has written a book about her sister and that book is called sweet scent of justice, sweet scent of justice and so you can hear her stories is it on now? Mazon Yes, it's on Amazon sweet scent of justice. And, you know, it's just so much there's so many families that have to live the rest of their lives not knowing what happened to the loved ones that I hate to see one that has been solved pretty much. And they're still waiting for answers to me. That's just inexcusable. inexcusable. But you know, you're fighting, but law enforcement probably did everything they freakin could. But I don't know, go interview, work at work at work. And that was my thing. You'll never I'd never solved the case sitting on my desk, not one time. Not one time. You got to get out there. And there's somebody that knows there's somebody that could say, You know what, dammit, I did see him. I did see him in the area, because that's all it would take. Oh, he's in the area and the DNA is on her. I mean, is there anything else to talk about? You know, and like I started the episode off with this as a club that no one wants to be a member of. But once you're a member, you're just connected by it. So this is how the three women get through it. They lean on one another they write books there there's Facebook, they're they're still fighting the fight at least at the end of the day. They have each other and I'm just super sad that they don't have the district attorney's office with them either because they are the ones that supposed to be there for the families. Right justice for the families crazy. Alright guys, well again, if you have any information, please reach out and thank you so much for listening to us please rate and review we really do appreciate the positive feedback that we've been getting has been fantastic and keeps us motivated. And we're hoping that just getting the information about these cases will spur up something and hopefully you're learning a little bit about the way investigations work and the way we investigations sometimes don't work. So thanks again for listening and we will see you next time on murder with Mannina. If you have a cold case you'd like Chris to review submitted through our website at murder with mannina.com and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at murder with mannina and Twitter at murder W mannina. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode of murder with mannina.