Something is Happening on Rainey Street Part 3

In Austin, Texas, eight bodies have been pulled from Lady Bird Lake in just 10 months. Similar deaths and bodies were recovered from the lake in the past few years too. Among these victims was a charismatic, beloved, 25-year-old named Martin Gutierrez. Gutierrez went missing in November 2018 after leaving a bar on Rainey Street. Martin’s brother and sister-in-law, Mitchell and Whitney Gutierrez, join us to share strange details that led up to Martin’s death, his autopsy report, common elements in several of the cases, and APD’s incredulous assertion that the deaths are all accidental. 

Transcript

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People just want to know what it's like to be me. How does it feel to see a dead body? Tell a family their loved one has been murdered, talk to a rape victim, catch a killer and get them to confess hold on tight, my friends, get ready for the journey. And welcome to murder with mannina. Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of murder with mannina. Thanks for all of the likes and emails and messages that we're getting. Please rate and review. I'm going to jump right into this we have a special guests on and I hate it that we have to you know, have guests on at all. But we have to deal with some of these cases that are happening across the country. And we're still talking about the Lady Bird Lake victims. However you want to describe it, but we have two family members here on the show today. So I'm just gonna jump right in if you guys can just introduce yourself, and then we'll go from there. Sure. I'm Whitney Gutierrez and this is metal guitarists. And Martin is Mitch, his brother, and I'm his sister in law. Okay. Well, it's nice to meet you guys. And thanks a lot for being on. And again, I'm sorry for your loss. It's horrible that we're having this discussion. But so I think I would want to do is I know you guys have been champions. And I love that I love family members that are champions. I don't know if you guys know a lot of history about me. But I worked in homicide for many years. And it's so important to have people champion for their loved ones. And it just helps with investigators and just getting the information out when more people are involved. So thank you for doing that. Thank you for giving us this opportunity. We really do appreciate it. Oh, absolutely. So I think what I'll do is I'll just start. First of all, how old was Martin? When he passed? He was 25. Okay. And describe to me what Martin was like, oh, man, that kid he was the salt of the earth. Like he was the nicest kid you'd ever meet and give you the shirt off of his back if you had the opportunity. Always painfully optimistic. Yeah, he was a great kid. He didn't even cuss. Like he who does that? Right. Right. Like, such a good person, the family. He was just so so loved. And he was the nicest kid you'd ever meet. He just made you a better person. Just he was fantastic. And you got I take it. You guys are really close. Oh, yeah. He actually lived here with us. Okay. Okay. So, unfortunately, you know, to get the word out, I think it's a good idea for people to kind of get like, just go back to that evening and just kind of start from the very beginning. And if you don't mind, I'll ask you questions along the way. But I just need to kind of get a picture. The best way you can paint it. You know, I know. It's hard and difficult. So, you know, do as much as you can, if you need a break, let us know if you, you know, share what you're willing to share. But this podcast is all about getting the word out and helping and helping people. So anything you know, we can do or you can give us. We'll just help. So if you could just take us back to that to that night. Yeah. So it was November 18 2018. And we actually had a great weekend was my parents were in town. And so we had a big group of friends out that entire weekend just going out and about, you know, within the town and going to different places and doing different activities. But that night, we all went to dinner off of West Sixth Street. And we had a great time we had a great dinner. It was a sports bar. We had to work the next morning and my parents were flying out the next morning so pretty much everyone went home Martin decided to go out with one of our you know, really close friends still to this day and his friends. They went to Rainey Street and it was her understanding he went to two or three bars. One of them he had one drink out which was last year pearl. And after that he What was the name of the so from luster Pearl perfectly fine, had one drink according to his debit card, credit card, you know, whatever. And then he went to the bar next door, which was called alibi. By the time he got to alibi, he was stumbling. My buddy described it as he was just acting odd all of a sudden repeating himself. He was not served at alibi at all. Okay, can you tell me how long it took for him to walk from the first bar to alibi? Oh, probably what two minutes? Yeah, they're side by side are very close to each other even a minute. Yeah. Very close to each other. Okay, in your in your history with him? Does he drink a lot? Does he not like what's his drinking patterns? So yeah, so we just would go out on the weekends like I've seen I know my brother like the back of my hand. I've seen him drunk guys. Seeing all that, when we were able to see the footage from alibi, and what I saw, it was not Martin. I don't know what that was, he was slouching over, he was acting odd. You know, my, my brother was a very social individual. And just to see him like just sticking to himself and leaning over, it was just odd behavior. And so there's an inside portion, and then an outside portion of that bar. And so the group was inside the, you know, that middle portion, then he went to the back where the restrooms were, and then he exited around on the other end, so they never saw him leave. So then, you know, with the surveillance footage that we had seen, he actually made his way all the way down Rainey Street. And we have footage of him on the corner, near craft pride, which was one of the bars where he turns the corner, and he's heading towards Holly street towards the interstate. And then we were able to get footage at an apartment complex called the towers of Town Lake. And that's where we saw Martin going towards the service road of i 35. And Lady Bird Lake. And for some reason, he was walking that direction, I have no idea why we Uber to everywhere, there was so out of his behavior. And he actually called them a great friend of mine, you know, that was working that night. She's a nurse, and was asking for a ride. And she was like, oh, like, I'll work the 3pm to 3am set, I can grab you quite yet. And she said that he just kept repeating himself. You know, like, she was like, something was off Mitch like something was and she just, I mean, even to this day, poor thing. Like she just blames herself. Like she was so upset that she couldn't get him. But that was the last person that ever talked to my brother. Okay, so what Where was his friends that he was with? Sorry, Lynn was still in the bar. They actually left maybe about 20 minutes after that. I guess they thought he was in the restroom. All that he texted him like, Hey, man, where are you at? All? There's no reply. So there was just no answers from there. Okay, so they just they just went home? They didn't look for him. Not none of that. Is that is that out of character? Or what's? What's their mind frame of that? Because I don't want to. I'm not I don't want to paint a bad picture. I just want to paint a picture. Oh, no, no, I mean, to be honest, our group of friends would I mean, they would do that they would, okay, they would leave or go home or, I mean, he walked off from the back of the bar and around and he left on his own. We have camera footage of it. The friends were still in the bar, they really probably thought nothing of it. And really, we didn't. I mean, we talked to them the next day, obviously, and we can get to that part in a second here. But just to see, you know, if he went home with them, and they said, No, you he left. But I mean, we do our group of friends sometimes. More back then not anymore. would leave alone. Sure and try to find a ride home and not make a big deal about it. But I mean, nowadays, obviously, we would never do that again. And did you think I thought anything of it? Okay, did your friends ever was he talking crazy to to your friends. I mean, at that started yet, when they were still together had his weird behavior started yet he was just kind of silent. He wasn't really saying much. He was just kind of sticking to himself, it looked like he was trying to communicate with some random people in there. And they just kind of like turned around like he was just odd. You know, like leaning on the bar. Our friends just thought he was drunk. But it doesn't make sense with the amount of drinks that he supposedly had, you know, throughout the night, but they they didn't suspect any, you know, drugging or anything at the time. He was just being silly. And I mean, it would have been the one place what was the name of that bar again? luster pearl. They were two places. The first one Do you remember the name of it? It's a different name. They weren't there very long lusher Pearl, it seems like they were out a little bit longer. And the receipt shows that he only had one drink. And then when by the time he got to alibi was when the, you know, the odd behavior started, like when he left the bar on his own. He was on the phone, but he was like skipping. It was the best way to describe it. Like in the video footage of him exiting the bar. He was like physically skipping, like doing this hopping motion. And my brother was hit like a power lifter. Like he doesn't do that. You know, so to see. I'm like that. I was like, Well, what is he doing? You know, so odd to me. So Baker records prove that he bought he bought at least himself one drink. Okay, so any other drinks were bought for him? Do we know the friends that were was with him that night that they purchase drinks for him? Do you know I think Len got him one. But they're like at the first bar they had gone to there was nothing there like they they were there temporarily and then Martin got there and they're like, Hey, we're already leaving. So he got there late. And so then they went to Lester pool. So the maximum probably that he had was maybe one or two luster pro but then he wasn't even served alibi. So to go from like zero to 100 was perfectly fine. Right and you know, they're at one One bar and then all of a sudden he's just completely out of it is kind of odd to me. I will say at dinner though. Dinner was very calm, and we were at a sports bar and I'm sure at dinner he probably had a beer or two before he went out. We, I'm sure we all did. It was obviously over four years ago now. And I can't remember what we had at dinner. But it wasn't anything like we weren't taking shots or like, anything heavy at all raging with my one. Yeah. I just don't want to make it seem like he just had like one drink. And then that was, you know, no, no, I'm just trying to get a picture because you know, when we can knit when we look at when we look at evidence, and we look at what can we prove 100%, right, that he he purchased himself wandering, obviously in there, in the time that he left to go to alibis. A drink was bought for him if we're if we're under the, you know, if we're thinking on the lungs of someone put something in his drink, which is that what you guys in your heart of heart thank? Well, that's what I think. And so we went to try to get the footage, you know, the surveillance in there, and they wouldn't give it to us, obviously. So they were like, all you need the police. So we got the police to get it. Well, they're like, well, sorry, we don't have a manager. We can't give that. So it was about six, seven days later, we finally got the footage of you know, luster Pro and they gave the police the wrong date, and then deleted what we needed. So I never got to see what happened in that bar. So the people in the bar erased what the footage mean, never got to see what happened to my brother. Okay. That's what we like to call as a clue. Like, yeah, you know, okay. All right. So you're seeing the video and just what happens what what goes on, you guys get notified? What happens? So do you want me to jump to when we realized he was missing? No, you can keep going from where we were, we stopped I'm sorry. So we see video at towers of Town Lake of him walking down, kind of by like that access road like so you make a ride on Holly street, you're walking towards the water, but you're not near the water yet. There's like the holiday and down there on the other side of towers of town like and then the chevron. So we have video of him, you know, walking down the sidewalk, he's looking at his phone in his hand. And that's the last footage we have of him walking south. There is like a split where you can go down like under the bridge towards the water or you can go up like beside that we're on the walking bridge. And that's kind of where things go a mess. Like we don't know if he walked downward or if he kept going straight. If you may have been trying to walk to a friend's house or was still looking for a ride. literally feel like that might be the area where if somebody pulled up and was like, Hey, do you need a ride? He would have been like prime maneuver? Sure. Yeah, let me get in, you know, because Chevron wasn't able to find any video footage of him walking, if he would have continued in that direction. Okay. And they're like the closest to the water. So he could have either walked down and the chevron totally missed him or he could have walked straight. But he would have stopped before the Chevron and gotten into somebody's you know, vehicle. Does it make sense in the direction where he's walking anywhere he would be going no cars, like our you know, your house is incredibly far away. It's got to be at least a 45 minute to an hour walk. Ours is But you did say he walked with one friend towards one of our friend Eric's house that it's still decently far walk. But he did it one time with a friend a long time ago. And you do walk that way. So we're thinking maybe if he kind of got a ride, yet that he may have just started walking on that track and then was planning on, you know, getting an Uber on the way we looked at his Snapchat, we looked at his text messages, we looked at his calls, we looked at his Facebook, his Instagram, rideshare app, everything and there was just nothing indicating that he had searched for a ride. He wasn't messaging a random person to meet up with anybody. There was nothing that would kind of point us in the direction like why would he be walking there? There was no reason for him. And the only outgoing call was to the nurse. Is that the only outgoing call? Is that weird? Like it's like why wouldn't he call you or call? Exactly. Do you have any idea? Like, I mean, I'm thinking he didn't call us because he knew we were home in bed like long in bed. We both had to get up really early for work. And my parents had an early flight out the next day. He wasn't gonna call any of us, I'm sure. And at the time, he probably didn't feel like he was in any danger. He was just, you know, calling, calling her to see if she can come get him are looking to get an Uber. The thing though, I know you mentioned that we didn't see anything on the rideshare app. But if you're like, if a ride didn't go through, or nobody accepted, I don't know that it would show the history of him just searching for a ride on the auction? I don't think so. I don't I don't think so. He could have requested one and just it never happened. Exactly. Exactly. Because we were very safe whenever we went out so sure. I was like surely surely he would look for One but well, and being a big guy, I can't imagine him getting attacked. Right? Like you said he. So that's, I mean, you guys, you know, you're painting a picture. I mean, this isn't like you're painting a pretty clear picture. It's just, it's just proving it. It's it's just like, you know, getting people on board or the police on board and how do you feel like Austin's doing as far as the investigation? It sounds like at the beginning, they were all all over it. Is that how you thoroughly No, not at all? Okay, yeah, we we did everything. I mean, we did seven days of searches. We had 50 people out there a day, we placed fliers all over the city, we were on every news station every day. Spreading the word we were, you know, posting on social media. They went, they searched the water the very first day. And that's it. And they weren't out there very long. Unfortunately, it was Thanksgiving. And really, there was not many, many people on it didn't seem like anyone was taking it seriously, except for the people that knew us and the people that knew Martin. We were not there during the search. We were out there, like, all more dusk until dawn, okay. And we really couldn't hear we we weren't getting communication from any detective at all. One of them was on vacation for Thanksgiving. I was like a fill in. And I have like two text messages from them literally just saying didn't find anything. Yeah, like nothing to report. So we did have the majority of the search is finding surveillance. And so I would email it texted to the detective Hey, this is what I found. You know, I'm just, I'm not trying to overstep or anything. This is what I found. This is, you know, we were the ones that found the footage at alibi. We were the ones that found the footage of crap prior, we were the ones to see the last footage of my brother walking, we gave that to them. And so there was actually two police. There's a Hispanic, like building out there for like Mexican culture and all that. There was two police officers requesting for information surveillance on their cameras that they have, which is close to the lake, they were requesting for the wrong date, as well, like they were getting the wrong information. So those the staff specific specifically calls telling me that the police officers refused to listen, when they said they were looking for Sunday night, Monday morning. And they were like, No, we said, we want this date. And they were refusing to listen. So I had to call the detective and tell him that his own police officers were asking for their own footage. Wow, we've been to every bar every day. But unfortunately, a lot of people were out of town for Thanksgiving or with their families. And we really were not getting answers from it. You know, most people a lot of bars didn't want to participate or cooperate in any way. They just said, you know, wait until the cops are the detective calm, and we'll give them video. But we didn't really see any cops or detectives out there trying to get video and when they did they either got the wrong day, or it was a race or the bar still didn't participate. It was I mean, we just were not seeing they have not been cooperative, largely was not cooperative in any way at all. Say that. Oh, yeah, that's that's, I mean, and we know many people that I've been drugged there, they don't want any part in law enforcement looking. And I mean, I think I said this early on calling when we when we were started this, it's like, I feel like it could be the bartenders, your serial killer. Like literally, I feel like it's something. It could be something like that. What do you guys think of that theory? I mean, it's up to say, we don't know. I mean, I, it could be anybody or it could be somebody in the corner just watching. Yeah, somebody you know, slip on by, you know, there's so much traffic out there. I do know, the bartenders are usually out there, like cleaning up and working until at least like four in the morning. So a lot of people did mention that it's least likely to be a bartender, rather than someone in the bar jerking around and observing. Just because they're really putting a lot at risk working at a bar and knowing they're on camera on like drugging somebody and then they can't leave work to go do if they're getting something out of murdering these people. If they're a serial killer. It's more difficult for it to be a bartender than it is to be like a you know, bystander person. Yeah, true. Yeah, we're a busboy. We've and they work, they do side work. They're not wrapping till early hours in reference to all of these victims. Where does your brother had there been a bunch before your brother? Kind of circumstances the same? The circumstances were not as similar before Martin as multiple cases after Mark. Okay. I know there's been a lot since 2008. But it seems like the circumstances of Martin story are very similar to the most similar to Jason John's story almost identical. So already between our two families, you know cases but I, I think, you know, some of them may not be related and the circumstances were a bit different. But regardless, something needs to change because there's so many bodies being pulled from ladybirds. Unbelievable. I can't believe from my little basic searches been 12 since Martin. Okay, so, wow. Okay, so you've talked to another detective explain a little bit about that you have coming in looking at this case? Yeah. So yeah, Detective Gannon. He's been wonderful. We met up with him here recently. I mean, incredibly intelligent, very just going home and this guy wants to help. Yeah. I mean, telling me, you know, previous cases that he's worked on things in the NYPD homicide detective. Yeah, so he's really, you know, digging into the case, kind of given me all these, you know, things that he's looking at as far as like, I mean, things I would have never thought of, you know, you have to write like, Yeah, this is incredibly like, like, what Mitch? Well, he's like, the way that blood splatter, like spatters and stuff like that. Certain injuries. Autopsy Yeah, you know, helping us like, so, you know, I don't know, to jump ahead, but like on Martin's autopsy, he had a large contusion on the back of his head. Okay. So, you know, the police had said, Oh, well, maybe he just fell off the bridge, and he hit his head, and then he died, you know, well, Dead people don't bleed, so you can't get a bruise on the back of your head. And if you already did, so, you know, he was able to kind of like, open up our eyes like, hey, like, you know, obviously, he was hit. He said, even on his autopsy report, it was blunt force trauma to the back of the head. So she and why would How could they? That's the problem that I have, like, so you have that as a as a cause of death blunt force trauma? I don't know that you could. You could, you could say accidental. I just I have no problem with that. No foul play. Yeah, no. signs of trauma, and right there on the autopsy. One for sure. I'm gonna go ahead. And like I said, my brother was a big guy, you know, so if they're gonna, you know, take them there, that's what they were gonna and the area of where it was, he was saying, like, you know, because he was trying to look at all angles, like if he accidentally hurt himself or fall forward, like, it doesn't make sense. Make sense, like the way or like, if he was to fall, it doesn't make sense. Well, that's the whole thing. That I mean, that's why we go to the autopsy right? For a tip, we get all sorts of information about like, and putting all the information that you're giving us, okay? If you're drunk, and you're walking down the street, if you've had, if you're, you know, all of this stuff, it can give you those angles. So I'm glad that he's doing that, because what he's doing, and what you know, will hopefully happen is he's disproving Austin's idea of what they think happened. And I guess, go ahead, I was just gonna say he was facedown in the water as well. And he said his eyes would be clear if that were the case, but they were opaque. And he said, that's when you're exposed to air after death. And that makes zero sense with an accidental drowning. facedown on his back, yes, kind of what the eyes are showing, I said, mild decomposition, decomposition, and the water was cold. So he is saying, you know, the body would be more preserved, which makes sense with the autopsy. But we were told by phone that we cannot see Him, we can't see photos, the composition decomposition was way too bad, and that we need to get him cremated. And the other families were also kind of pressured into cremation. So we got a such thing as or somebody in the police department like you have to like, that doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, so now we don't have the opportunity to do another autopsy, we don't have tissue samples, they throw them away after you destroyed all of them and everything is gone. My brother so we're trying to discuss this with the other family so that they don't make the same mistakes that we did. Yeah, that's again, he doesn't want the photos and they will not they won't provide those for us. That's another thing that just so like, when you look at it, you have almost like Okay, is there somebody in a bar that's dragging people and getting off on the fact that you know, these these people, you know, end up in the lake and in drown? Or is there something going on in the police department? Because Is there somebody in the police department that's that's doing this and that's not counting the round? Like you can't rule out anything and so when people when you have champions of the family, that's why I love it like I always I, I played well with others just you know, a lot of police departments don't they don't want other officers coming in and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, It's not assault, like something is wrong. It's not rocket science. You guys are become pretty good investigators because you've had to, but you have to really start looking at everything. And that's that's all thing. The cases are cold. They're cold for a reason. So you have to you have to look at everything. And I don't know that there's any theory at this point. That would be too outrageous because just based on what you're saying, I go straight. There's two theories. It's either somebody in the police department or somebody just sitting at the bar, like you said, or somebody in the bar. are doing this stuff and it very well could be a serial killer that's on the police department. You never know. You know, because it's too bad. It's I always think it's odd when businesses I get it, they don't want, you know, their business to look bad. And oh my god, you're gonna come to this bar on Rainey Street and you're gonna get drugged and you might die. I get all that. But most businesses don't want, they want to help. They want to help. And so that's the big question is why the hell would you help us? You know, and a lot Yeah. Yeah. Everything to hide, you know what I mean? Like, there's always the first thing when people don't cooperate my, like most people, you know, in my attention is like, well, what the hell they have to hide, you know, and, and, and so, and then all of a sudden, the footage that you need is is gone. That could have been a quick call from the officer. I mean, who knows? You just don't know. So it's just really, it just, it makes me cringe to think about this. Because this is the thing you guys, it's right there. It's right there. And most cases are even cold cases. It's always right there. And it just takes something right. Like it always just, it could be somebody listen to the podcast that knows. And that's what I told Colleen. And I'll say it a million times, the more you can get information out there because believe it or not, people will have information they may not know they have information. But a lot of times if they're not asked, they won't give it you know, and and I just think that there's somebody knows something. So if there's somebody out here doing this, he's told somebody that's human nature, think about it. I've said it a million times if I tell you, I've got a secret. Oh my god, you can't tell anybody because they told me not to tell anybody. Blah, blah, blah, then you go and you go, Oh my god, she just told me a secret but she told me to swear and you know we do it is human nature. So right up getting it out and talking about and and kind of putting the pieces together. It's not that complicated. But it's complicated, right? Like, you guys know, you know him. I don't know him. So his mannerisms and his behavior and all of that stuff. I'm glad that detective is going to talk to you. You know, I could talk to you until I'm blue in the face so that I learned everything about him and it's okay, you know, and you never want to paint. It's not his fault. You know, but information about okay, well, what was his drinking habits? Could he have been drunk? Well, you guys have been able to nail it down to obvious what what did they say the blood alcohol was on the autopsy? I can't remember I don't know. But it's gonna be falsely high just because of the breakdown of his body. It's what do you naturally write? What naturally happens is the alcohol content goes up. I can't remember the exact number. I believe though detective Gannon said that it wasn't that, like the calculation of it does show to be a lot higher in any autopsy of being in the water that long, right? But he said the alcohol level actually really wasn't that high. So the autopsy is going to prove that I think the autopsy and their server to me the autopsy of their surveillance is chi is is proving to me as an investigator, that there's foul play involved. You know, that screen was completely unremarkable. But they do such a basic panel. Yeah. They didn't check for like ghp like scopolamine, or like, roof land, like any of that stuff like they didn't ever observe. It doesn't mean like, they're not doing that with any of them. Like, that's what it kind of sounds like they're not they're not doing it with any of them. So, yeah, I mean, I think I'm glad that detective from New York is on it. Because, in a sense, like some samples from the more recent ones where they do still have samples, he's wanting to send samples if the families are open to it to a lab in Pittsburgh to do more advanced testing. Absolutely. Well tell him if he wants to bounce theories off of me, I will absolutely talk to him. And, you know, because that's, I mean, there's just his experience, my experience and in what you guys are providing is so helpful. I mean, you guys are the key. You guys are the key you guys are his friends are that we're out that night, anybody that's come forward to give information. It's all in there. Right. But it's this puzzle. We've got weird pieces that don't make sense. It doesn't make sense that the videos vomits, that should never happen. So somebody erased it. Obviously, the way that he was acting doesn't make sense. And the people that know him the best Are you guys and you're telling me that it doesn't make sense. So it doesn't make sense. You know, and that's the thing with investigators it's it's just sometimes it's the luck of the draw who you get right? Like I worked on a rotation there were like six or seven of us and on rotation so if I got one then the next guy got one and I didn't get another one until everyone got one right. So it's just sometimes the luck of the draw who you get, like in every job, there's shitty ones. There's good ones. There's ones that will run it down, you know, and it just I hate it. When I hear one that they're not staying in touch with the family. I mean, you have to stay in touch with the family, especially when the family is doing their your job, right, like we are totally in the dark. As soon as you know, 90 days after we got the autopsy, and it was rolled as an accidental death. We were they close this case, and they booted us. And that's exactly so just just so you know, if they can get an autopsy report and a pathologist to say that it was accidental. As a detective, there's nobody in my chain of command that's going to say, you need to look at that. You need to you know, and even if I were to say, Ah, it's a little, it's a little iffy, I may have 20 other cases that are happening right now. That's and I'm not making excuses. I'm just keeping a real, like, how would it once they sign off on it a pathologist signs off and says gives you cause and manner of death? I have. There's nothing in my job description. That says, I mean, it's literally done. It's done. And there was seven people that year and to tune in, I don't know why they're not I get it. Like, I'm sure that Austin doesn't want to sit there and say, well, we might have a serial killer, that's gonna cause I mean, there's so much that plays into this shit, right? As you know, you've got businesses that don't want to lose business. Okay, you've got a community that you don't want to freak out. And then it becomes a political thing to a degree, the mayor, the chief, we don't I mean, all of this is playing into almost a perfect storm for somebody to get away with all of this. But with your work and detectives that can come in and help and getting on podcasts and just getting out there. Eventually, it will break open it will it will just have to and lucky you know he's got you guys to do that. Because good walk. Oh, I was just gonna say we did walk with Him. Last week, we showed him riding Sri, the water, the trail, the bridge, all the places we got camera footage from and he's been investigating the smiley face killers. Yeah, for many, many years. So he's, they took photos of all their graffiti all around the city, to see if they can compare anything to see if there's any relation or if they think that they're here. Yeah, he was telling me like, oh, this symbol usually means this. I'm like having your way. Yeah, well, he's a good detective. And he's been doing it a long time. And I'm glad that he came down. Because every time you know, when you even if the scene is cold, you still need to get a lay of the land and get a feel of what it was like and kind of breathe the air and just get a feeling. You know, I did it all the time on my fresh homicide scenes, you know, and it's just really helpful to just kind of so I'm glad that he's doing that. As far as I sir. Anybody on the police department that is helping you at all? What I mean? Is it just been nothing. Nothing. What about news media? Have you gone to the I know you've done a lot of interviews, but have you gone to them and, and pushed it a little bit I tell people they've actually come to us. They've been really good with reaching out to us. And we've done a timing countless news interviews, we actually just did one with CBS Austin 30 minutes ago, okay, they reach out to us all the time. And we anything we can do to help get the word out or try to increase, you know, awareness. Yeah. Capitalize on the opportunity to, if I get any chance to talk about my brother or his case or anything, I'll hop on it immediately. Okay. It's been like, hey, view Kx and CBS Fox, like, you know, whatever we expect from news, whatever we can. Local radio stations hear any of them when they've been interviewing you asked you about what Austin has done and not done. Have they taken that angle yet? Some of them have. Yeah. I mean, even the interview we just did, they mentioned how there's some temporary fencing and a few lights down there. There's no cameras yet. There's four lights, three of which work but it's sold very, very dark down there. Very dark. See, the media can put a lot of like, I I talked to a couple of media people in my career because I trusted them but they can relate or they can obviously spread the word. But what they can do is put pressure, pressure on the police department to get off their ass and get somebody do they have a cold case unit? Do you know in Austin, I am unaware of one you know if they had a cold case unit if they do. The media is great at kind of putting some pressure on there. Have you gone to the mayor? Yeah, so we went to a couple of city council meetings to you know, get these things approved for Austin. So we were looking for permanent electrical supply lighting, surveillance Halo cameras, which did get approved like they finally listened to us. That's fantastic. And I'm glad you're doing that. So people don't have to go through it. But my point is, have you gone to the mayor and said, Look, something's frickin off. Like I need I need am Detective to look at this pointed directly at him when I was speaking about my brother's case, I looked at all the city council members, I looked at the chief of police pointing fingers like y'all didn't do anything. You didn't do this. But as far as asking like that, I didn't get I mean, that's that's perfectly. That's, that's a route to go. I mean, if you get enough because all it does is is put pressure pressure on them to say because you guys are intelligent people, you've lived this horrible nightmare. You're a vast full of information. If I as a detective, I would be like, Oh, my God, I need to be with you for the next week, every single day learning everything that I can. Because the thing is, is this is solvable. And this is what's so irritating about detectives that just don't work their ass off. You've got people that you know that your your job is to bring some pipe. And I hate to use the word closure, because I don't I don't think that that happens. But some answers, you guys are deserving of the answers. It doesn't. If it doesn't smell right, it probably isn't. Right. Right. And you guys are not out there saying a UFO came in and grabbed him. You know, none of that shit. I mean, you know, you get that 10 You have to weed it out. I mean, you guys have those? Did the detective did anybody interview you guys like in depth about the habits of your brother about what he's like about every, like, get a get a background? Did anybody do that? No, I guess it was I mean, all of our interviews are pretty. We haven't gone too deep in depth, I guess. Like they're pretty superficial. Just you know, regarding who Martin was, and, you know, the great person that he was and what his life was like, and, you know, he lived with us what our typical day was. We had a very like specific routine. That's why we noticed he was missing so soon, because he didn't show up to work. He didn't show up to medium with us. He wasn't answering his phone. It was very weird, you know, behavior. And by the second day of that, you know, occurring we that's what we call the police. We knew, right? He definitely wasn't with any of our friends. We didn't know where he was. So I mean, we had a routine and we have described that to people that I've asked, you know, it was definitely out of the ordinary what what else I like it with everything that you guys are doing. They're trying to put what I like to call a band aid. Okay, we're gonna put a fence up. Okay, we're gonna put a couple lights up. Maybe they'll shut up. That's the feeling I'm getting just from talking to you guys. Oh, yeah, cuz they did all this right before South by Southwest, which is a big music festival. Yeah. And Austin. So you know, yeah, we, you know, asked for the change and all that. But was it really because of what's going on on Rainey Street? Or is it because you want to say you did something so people will feel safe and come to your Yeah, I mean, it's, it's political. It's all of that bullshit that goes into unfortunately, it leaves victims, you know, family victims. It's just like, it just leaves them it just, oh, I just can't handle that shit. It's just, that's, you know, anyways, that's a whole other subject but continued doing what you're doing. Continue doing what you're doing. Well, we'll continue to talk about this on the podcast. That detective sounds fantastic. If you want to pass along my name. I will absolutely come down to Austin. I'll meet him. We can bounce ideas off. But you guys, man, you're champions. We was in New York. Actually. He okay down here to meet all about families and help. Okay. And the other families and I'll buy you lunch? Oh, you know what? I will come to Austin, I will come to Austin, we need to just kind of, you know, in the thing is, is that people have information that it's not like nobody doesn't know, believe me. Somebody knows something that could and that's the thing, but unfortunately, you have to have the police department, you have to have that detective, it's like, okay, I want to hear it. Okay. Okay, get you know, and so but cases have been solved. They happen by people that listen to podcast, families that just do the work. They've been solved. And that's what I mean. Find somebody in the media that because I've I use the media to help me write as a detective, they get the information out. But then that also put pressure and it sounds like a little bit of pressure to like, really, Austin? Do you really think this is accidental? Like we're having all of these and we've got a family that knows him pretty well. And it's not we need a newscast to be like the dots aren't connecting to the norm to an average person that's just living their life. They don't have to have law enforcement experience. It's just not connecting. Why does nobody care that they're not connecting? That would be the question Why does nobody in the Austin Police Department give a shit that these are not that these dots aren't hidden together? Why not Facebook page really? What all of this up and put some pressure on them but that's when they put out that statement that I mean, oh, the only common thing between all of these cases is alcohol and being near water. It was just there's no such a pathetic response to and kind of a slap in the face. So all the family is going through this, I really just showed how much, you know, the lack of care, and they had to put a statement out. So they put out, you know, there's nothing suspicious here, nothing to see here. But like type of statement getting out there because of this Facebook page, the news, all this stuff. I mean, like, my sister was telling me there was like a bunch of TiC TOCs now, but I'm too old for that shit. But there's like a bunch of TiC TOCs. Yeah, going out there. And they're really spreading. So even the younger population now is starting to get well. And that's a key too, because that those are the ones that are on Tiktok. And that's throwing that shit out there. And it's constant, it's constant. It's constant. What you know, you need somebody in the mayor's office, or you need somebody on the police department that's going to champion and say, You know what, I'm going to take you off of your regular scheduled daily activities, I'm going to put you on it, even if I mean, one great thing that they could do was say, Okay, we've got these families that are grieving, they're not okay, with the answers that we've been giving them. I'm going to assign this to you, you've got three months, you know, investigate everything that you can think of. But you deserve that, right? So we're almost like a task force team that says, All right, all we're going to do is look at these cases to try to figure out if there's some we know that there's something suspicious, but if there's something suspicious, as opposed to that's an idea that I think would would, I mean, I think you could nail this down within a couple months if you could get people that one. Believe in it. And just think there's something off here like there's like the the hairs on the back of my eye. I'm going nuts right now, because I'm like, there's so much work to be done. And it's like how we feel? Yeah, sure. I'm sure Yeah. So you know, I don't know just anytime you're on the media or if you know somebody in the media that could that is not only doing their job but has some empathy for what you guys are going through, you know, to say, You know what, let's why can't we look at another angle? Let's not like you guys. It's not factual shit. It's not like it's no no, you're so off. Oh, my God, he just walked you know, none of that stuff. I mean, these things make sense to relook at this stuff. And go you know what, something's off. Yeah, you know, and Martin's case was printed off and just kicked under the rug. You know, it's been four and a half years now. Jason, John's situation and how everything happened. I saw the flyer and I called the number immediately I talked to his girlfriend I talked to his brother the next day and the day after that I was sitting in a room with his parents and all of his friends so he helped search for a search forum like I was trying to do my part I gave them everything that I did for Martin like I searched here try to get the detective here to get the footage here This place doesn't have surveillance here this like tried everything I could to help this you told them to keep searching the water because for us Family Search for a few hours on the water that's another thing I wanted to ask. So I know the night before Thanksgiving is a big going out night like I do you know and I get like they're low on but you know what, when you become a detective, yeah to work holidays. That's why I wanted to ask you if you're out there, did they search the entire area of water? Well, the area of water is enormous, but there's some you know, they were just out there for a few hours. It was you know, like a dive teams out there or why had the Austin they had a bow and a dog and a helicopter? Like infrared whatever. Okay, like the sonar Yeah, but and they did it for maybe I don't even know eight hours at the most and they said he's not in the water. And that was that was the end of it and we trusted them so we kept searching Land, land land and then he was found in the water seven days later. So with Jason Jones he found in the water whereas in reference to last video, so he was found floating down across so there's a location a street called Riverside. So which is his specific location where he was was about maybe point six miles from the interstate i 35. Okay, so right there close to Rainey Street, someone who was on their balcony. This apartment complex called him right on the lake, and they saw him floating and called it in anonymously. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, this is just Yeah, I think we need to make a trip to Austin, Coleen and double up with everybody until the detective you know, I'll go down there too. We can compare notes. But I do believe that, like, I always believe that if you work hard enough at something, you can get it right. Like, and I think with the media or whatever, if you can find that one. That's like, you know what, I, I buy it. I think there's something off here. You know, because unfortunately, what will happen is somebody you know, I don't know immediate personal lose somebody or somebody in the you know, and then they'll go oh, oh, yeah, it hits them personally, you know, until they Well, I'm sorry that you have not getting the answers that you deserve. And you're not kidding. Once the last you know, who's the lead detective who was the lead detective A detective Donovan. Okay. That was the one that had been in the majority of Martin's case. There was another one that was also put on his case. But I remember emailing Donovan a lot. Okay, never getting a response. She's still on the police department. Do you know I'm not quite sure. Okay. But yeah, I'm not quite sure on the other guy's name, but I remember Donovan. Okay. Well, guys, if there's anything I can do, I will absolutely do it. I hate to hear it when detectives drop the ball. I hate it makes me sick to my stomach. Well, thank you so much, ma'am. Like this really means a lot. Yeah, anything we can do? I absolutely. Want to thank you. It's it's one thing to investigate a case and you've done everything you can and maybe you just couldn't solve it. That's one thing. You know, I had to do it once in my life. I had a case I didn't I don't know who did it. I did everything I could. I did. But 99% of the cases can be solved or figured out. But it's like anything else? Are you good detective, you're going to do this shit because it's the right thing to do. Are you going to pawn it because, you know, the pathology report? The autopsy report said that you could because that's exactly what the autopsy is is allowing them to throw this under the rug unfortunately. Right you know it when it smells bad? It usually is. Yeah, so we'll keep going. We'll do what we can for sure. Thanks everyone for listening. If you have any information at all on this contact me don't contact the Austin Police Department out mad at them so much. I said there's so many groups to reach out but man send me an email if you got any information. We need to get this thing figured out because too many people's lives are being lost to Me. People's lives are being affected. And these families deserve justice. They deserve to be able to go to bed at night know what happened to their loved ones. Thank you guys, so much. Thanks again for listening and we will see you next time on murder with mannina.. If you have a cold case you'd like Chris to review submitted through our website at murder with mannina.com and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at murder with mannina and Twitter at murder W ma. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode of murder with menina