Massacre On Muriel Court

Chris discusses the chilling, unsolved, triple-murder of the Sims family that has haunted Tallahassee, Florida since 1966. 

Transcript

0:01

People always want to know what it's like to be me. How does it feel to see a dead body? Tell a family their loved one has been murdered. Talk to a rape victim, catch a killer and get them to confess. Hold on tight, my friends. Get ready for the journey. And welcome to murder with mini Anna. Hello, everyone and welcome to another edition of murder with mannina. it is so so hot here in Indianapolis. I just got done playing golf with my dad. I beat him by one stroke, which is a very, very rare occasion. He is 80 years old, but he can really play golf really well. He almost plays every day. So I tried to get out when I can and I only think I won because it was so freakin hot. He was on the struggle bus. And he doesn't really bother me. Is it human? It's human. It's and a man we've just had. We've just had some crazy weather. I've got tree limbs, and all sorts of things from a storm that came through last night. But yeah, it's crazy human but it was sunny today. So we got out and played and more rain is coming tonight. But we've been getting hammered. Well, when I went to New York last week, I checked the temperature. And you know, it was about the same as San Diego. So I packed accordingly. But I did not factor in humidity. Oh boy, is that a different world? Oh, yeah. I'm so used to human and like when I was in San Diego visiting you. It's like, I think I'm cold. I know there isn't anyone here? Not at all. No. Yeah, that's crazy. But anyway, so I'll be going to New Jersey here in a little bit to do some active shooter training. So I will pack accordingly. It'll be about the same thing as we have in Indianapolis, but I'll be in New Jersey, which I've never been to. I don't know anything about jersey, but it's not far from Manhattan. So I'm going to visit that. I think I'll be really busy but not in the nighttime. So in the evening, I'll go play in New York City. So anyways, we'll we'll get started on this week's case. And, man, this is a chilling case and it's from 1966. And it's an unsolved triple murder of a family of The Sims family. And this is located in Tallahassee, Florida, and triple murders. I don't know I don't think I've ever had a triple murder and all the cases that I've investigated on my own. I've not had a triple murder that I was assigned to but I have assisted on a couple of where the entire family was was killed. So anyways, this is October 22 of 1966. Many of the citizens of Tallahassee, Florida were attending a football game in the North Florida fair, that Robert Sims who was 42 and his wife, Helen, who was 34. They stayed home with their youngest daughter Joy and joy was 12. She had two older sisters, Jenny and Judy, aged 16 and 17. But they weren't home they were babysitting. So at around 1115 Jenny arrived home from babysitting the radio and TV were on and that was a familiar scene to her. But her parents and sisters weren't anywhere in sight. So she began looking for them in the house. She winds her way back to the back of the house and opens the master bedroom door. To her horror, her mom, her dad and her little sister were all bound and gagged. And laying in pools of blood. That was over 50 years ago. And the case is still unsolved. Even though police have a pretty good, pretty good idea who killed them. So could you imagine walking in this is just heartbreaking. This poor kid. I mean, what she's had to live with that image her whole life. 18 years old. So just from that you're looking at your parents that are bound and gagged. And I'm sure that was a horrible, horrible crime scene. Oh, man. Okay, so at the time of this and 1966 at the time of this murder was a sleepy Tallahassee was a sleepy small town. Nobody ever locked their doors. The kids in the neighborhood played together, wandered freely and stayed out until the streetlights came on. The Sims were a relatively new family to the neighborhood. They had moved to Tallahassee in the early 60s. The Father Robert, very well educated, got his PhD from Florida State and was working at the Department of Education in the computer division. He was well liked and respected. Helen helping his mom was a church secretary at First Baptist Church and a talented pianist. The church was a family social home and for all three of their daughters were good students. They appeared in every which way to be very nice all American family. So just like so this is the late 60s. I was born in 71. So even in the mid 70s, when I was just a little bitty person we had saved thing right? Like everybody knew everybody in the neighborhood I played with all of the neighborhood kids and it's true. Like you came home and the streetlights came came on. So, man, it's just so sad. Okay, so dad was lying on top of the bed. This blindfolded, gagged and bound with one shot wound to his head. He was still alive, but not for long. Helen mom was on the floor halfway across the room. She was also blindfolded, gagged and bound and had been shot three times, twice in the head. And once in a lake. She was also still breathing, but would die nine days later at the hospital without ever regaining consciousness. So it sounds like maybe mom was in bed too, but was crawling away, has the maybe shot in the leg part and then being in a different location than her husband? Strange that they were blindfolded? Totally strange. So joy, just horrible. She got the worst of it, not only to been shot in the head, but she's also stabbed seven times in the torso, and her underwear was pulled down around her ankles. And she was already dead. That's awful. Oh, my God. All right, it looked like the attacks hadn't happened too long before Jenny got home, which was later confirmed by a neighbor who claimed to have heard screams at around 10:45pm investigators at the crime scene said there were no sign of forced entry, and nothing had been stolen. There was even money left in plain view. Whoever had done this seem to know the sins and had a personal motive for the murders. So just right here, it almost just from where we are looking at this case, since Han, the youngest daughter got it worse. You have to. You have to think there's the motive, maybe with her. All right, Jenny didn't know what to do. She got the yellow pages out and call the number for the funeral home. So the father and son of the funeral home were first to arrive. The first police officer on the scene was a deputy sheriff named Larry Campbell, who later became sheriff. It was his 24th birthday. Larry calls the chief of police and the share. And the turf war ensued. The Sheriff asked the police to leave Oh, my God, Nessie, that and that should still goes on. The Sheriff asked the police to leave why you have a gruesome, gruesome, horrible crime scene. Why wouldn't you want everybody who was already there, right? So they've already contaminated or have been there and probably have seen the scene? Why would you ask them to leave? Why would you just work together? Because I can't imagine with this type of family and this type of neighborhood that this happens very often. And it just seems like man, you'd want as many people that were already there that were qualified to kind of help them investigation, right? There were 42,000 people in Tallahassee in the 60s. And it grew to 78,000 in that decade, but it was a really small sleepy little town. Wow. Okay, so it says here that the crime scene was immediately contaminated by people going in and out of the house because the sheriff's department didn't know how to handle a crime scene like this. Nothing like this had ever happened in Tallahassee. Yeah. And Chris, I read that there were neighbors and there were people in the town coming in and out of the house and taking souvenirs, like an ash. That so wasn't treated as a crime scene, it wasn't, you know, wasn't blocked or treated as a museum or something? Well, so what's interesting is, okay, I understand that, you know, they may have never had a case like this, but it's pretty much police 101 If you've gone through any type of training, that a crime scene like that you at least put crime scene tape up, and you know, not to let people go in and out like that. To me, it's just especially when you have the chief of police and the sheriff there. Very rarely do they come out scenes. Now maybe a scene like this, especially in the late 60s when things weren't as common but I don't know that I've ever had the chief of police that any of my homicide scenes so you would think that they would at least know to put crime scene tape up and keep people out. But it sounds like it just became a looky loo like oh my god, this hat like you've got to see this. And I hate to hear that. It's just horrible. So some of the interesting evidence found at this crime scene the knots used to bound the Sims are specialized kind. former assistant state attorney Jeremy mots claimed in a Reddit post in 2017 that everything indicated that the murders had been planned that the killer or killers had spent time cleaning the scene and suggested that would have to be someone who would feel comfortable being seen at the neighborhood without raising suspicions. Yeah, I mean I would imagine it would have to be the 12 year old she's not going to put much of a fight she's not you know, you know that big or that strong mom and dad I mean still three people it's probably more than one person but in the end the element of surprise right i mean that that yeah, how could they doesn't sound like the door you know that anybody sounds like a hate crime because the you know, the the tying up and the shooting and stabbing in that whole thing, but it's like, who hated this family? They seemed like such a lovely sweet family. That's what's so mysterious. Yeah, no forced entry. That's not a big deal because it sounds like the neighborhood was you left your doors unlocked. And, you know, so that kind of, you know, anybody can walk in as my point. Of course, probably no problem. The crime shocked the community leading even to cancel trick or treating that year at a fear that there was a killer still on the loose. No one could understand who would want to target a well liked family with no known enemies. People were scared. doors, door locks sold out. pistols were so loud and women bought water guns and filled them with ammonia. Interesting. Yeah, you can tell that they really it didn't shock them. Initially, the investigation focused on a high profile member of the city. Pastor see a Roberts. Helen had worked for him at the First Baptist Church, but had quit her job just a few days before she was murdered. The reason of why she resigned was a mystery. But there was a lot of speculation that Helen had some difficulty with him as many other women did. Pastor Roberts had a bachelor's degree and master's degree and a PhD. He won the Tallahassee Jr. Chamber of Commerce Man of the Year, and the next year he wins the Florida man of the year. He was such a spellbinding speaker that many members of his common congregation would attend both of his services on Sundays. But Helen knew his dark side. Here we go. Although pastor Roberts was married, he was having affairs with lots and lots and lots of women. It possible Mona was that Helen knew too much. However, Pastor Roberts was ruled out because he had been at the football game. Not only had he been seen by many witnesses in both halves of the games, there was video footage of him there. He did leave during halftime, but investigators drove every route from the football game to The Sims house. And there was not enough time for Robert to do good work on the police. Right? Like you have to sometimes drive the route of where people say they were at and just see if there's a possibility in the timeframe could he have done this kudos to them. There was another suspect Robert Rob house. He married Peggy house on December 21 of 1966. The day after he married Peggy they were driving from Tallis hassy. To alligator point to honeymoon. At some point during the trip. Rob house started telling Peggy in graphic detail how he murdered Joy Sims first. Ellen sim second and Robert Sims less. Rob house told Peggy that if she tells the police had killed her. In the 80s A letter was discovered that Peggy had written according to Peggy's letter he was incredibly violent. He was an alcoholic and he had threatened to kill his stepson on various occasions. After they were divorced, Peggy agreed to go undercover for the Tallahassee police to try to get a confession at him. His house was bugged, but it didn't work. Because Rob was tipped off by his daughter. Peggy also turned Rob's gun into the police. It was a 32 caliber handgun, but the gun that was used in the murder was a 38 caliber handgun. The other problem with how as a suspect was the lack of motive. Apparently had he had had a run in with Colin at a grocery store. He told Peggy that he followed Helen home and decided he was going to come back to kill her. But Rob house was off the hook because His fingerprints were not at the crime scene. He passed a polygraph test with flying colors and his handgun did not match. And he didn't even do it and he's bragging to his bride. What kind of people do that say something like that? It's well because it was such a blow your mind type of thing. It was kind of leverage. People were scared. Right? And so if you're trying to intimidate your wife, that would be a good example or girlfriend or Oh my lord. Okay, so here we have a third suspect in the case and his name was Tommy Fulghum. He was a 15 year old boy at the time of the murders. Jump ahead when Fogle is 29 It's 1978 He's living in Atlanta, Georgia and he commits a grisly murder he is found with a liver in a jar and with a dis and bowed woman that he had just murdered in his apartment with her hands cut likes. It just killed his girlfriend. A reporter in Tallahassee turns up this murder does a little homework and sees that Tommy live two blocks from the sentence family. He takes this to the state attorney. At the time of the murders. Tommy was a high school sophomore. He was small in stature and member of the choir and a normal kid by all accounts, Tommy went on to serve in the Navy was honorably discharged and started to have severe mental problems. A few years later, several people were interviewed about Tommy's whereabouts, including his girlfriend at the time. By all accounts he was at a party when the Sims were murdered. Also, Tommy's friends do not match any of the crime scene. It's crazy. This is nuts. I know like this little tiny town and there's all these bizarre characters in it. Okay, so now we've got two suspects new a new two suspects had never been cleared. There were two teenagers that live nearby. Mary Charles Lovejoy 19 At the time, and her boyfriend Vernon Fox 21 at the time. Mary came home came from a troubled home she was adopted and she described both parents as abusive. She was in Madison junior college at the time because she was 19. The college could hardly keep her with a roommate because she freaked everyone out. She had a poster above her dorm bed that said a tisket a tasket come sleep in my casket. A ship. Mary was obsessed with death so much that she hung out at the funeral homes. And the owners would ask her to stop coming. She broke into another funeral home and stole funeral gowns and slept in them. I Lord, she had only one friend and that was burnin her boyfriend. They became friends in elementary school and became romantic in high school. Vernon was a couple years older than Mary at the time of the murders, Mary was in high school. burnin was back at home after being discharged from the army army due to mental health problems. The back corner of Ernest property touched the back corner of the Sims property. The back corner burned his property touched the back corner of the Sims property and the joy lived a couple of houses down. He was spotted peeping on Joy Sims a week before the murders. Let's Let's remind everyone she was 12 he was he was seen peeping on a 12 year old girl. Yeah, and he's 21 Okay. There have been inconsistencies in their interviews since the beginning and both of their stories have changed over the years. But joy told police that she and Vernon were at the movies. She claims they watched two and a half movies but the ticket taker at the drive in knew them and remember that they had left after the first movie. burnin told investigators that they had sex in the car after the movies, but Lovejoy claimed that Vernon didn't get into her drawers until much later. But why would they hate a family so much? That had done nothing to them? I mean, why that just is crazy. That's the whole thing about this I was you know, what would the motive be and and there and there are in their interviews. They themselves especially Lovejoy hint at motives. Well, and the thing too is we have to remember, obviously they were all killed horribly but the 12 year old had the worst and appeared she was stabbed her underwear so Lovejoy only had one friend it was Vernon Vernon and Lovejoy were both known as oddballs, outcasts, and they only had each other and then yeah, Vernon is spying on the 12 year old and Lovejoy is obsessed with death. So did Lovejoy kill the 12 year old because Vernon was spying on her, which to me also still feels like such a flimsy motive. You Yeah. Well, we've got we've obviously got mental health issues and a lot of these people that are at least named suspects or even the ones that were clear I mean, there's just Yeah, I just okay so, in the 80s, Mary Charles Lovejoy went back to Tallahassee to voluntarily talk to the investigators, and suggested that Vernon by then her ex husband had committed the murders. Her motives to turn on him are dubious, especially when she showed interest in the reward money. Still, there was plenty of reason to suspect them, considering they kept giving conflicting statements to the police. But there was no hard evidence that would lead to an arrest. So they but what about the fingerprints from Mary Charles Lovejoy and Vernon Fox with that's not mentioned anywhere, and how many different fingerprints were at the crime scene that's not mentioned anywhere either. Well, and this is the thing too, you could tell from the beginning, that the crime scene was jacked up. Okay, so we don't even really know how great they even dusted for prints. Like we don't really know, where's the crime scene like, because that type of scene, you could spend days in there, you could spend days in there, because you just don't, when there's no forced entry. You just don't fingerprint like, just around the crime scene, you're gonna have to start looking at other areas of the house. Right? Because they're and did they do that? I know that they're saying that their fingerprints weren't there. But how well did they do it? And it makes it so hard when it's contaminated so far. Plus, we're talking the late 60s too. And you have to think about this to the people that they interviewed, you know, did they have cuts on their hands because you when you stab somebody, you're gonna have some injury on your hands, probably just from the blood, and going back and stabbing your hand when it gets bloody and gets wet will slide down. And they did mention that in this documentary, and then the one article I found so pastor, so the pastor, he didn't have any cuts on his hand, which was another reason they ruled him out that his he wasn't ruffled up at all no bruises, nothing. He's got a pretty solid alibi with. So he didn't do it. But and the Tommy and the Robert how the creepy guy who told his wife, his, you know, for three reasons his hand can didn't match. His fingerprints weren't anywhere at the scene. And his polygraph, I guess you can't count on that. But the polygraph test he flew, he passed with flying colors, the creepy kid who ended up becoming a murderer. He had many, many people verify that he was at a party at the time on the same night, and at the time the murders happened. So that's his alibi. That's his only only alibi, but also, why would he Oh, add the girls, the Judy and Jenny, the other two girls. They had no idea who this Tommy fulcrum was they hadn't they had never seen him they didn't know so the other so it seems unlikely even though he went on to become a really creepy, grisly killer. It doesn't seem likely that he did that he killed the Sims. So really, the only people that seem actually likely are Mary Charles Lovejoy and Vernon Fox because of their proximity to the crime, because of their personalities and in her obsession with death. And because when Lovejoy came back in the 80s, to talk to the detective Larry Campbell, that's a videotaped interview. It was a six hour interview, it was videotaped. And there's a documentary by Kyle Jones. It's on. It's online. It's absolutely free. It's tremendously compelling. He did a fabulous job. It's called 641 Mario Kart. That was the address of the house. It's called 641 Mario Kart. For listeners who are interested in this case, I highly recommend you go and watch the documentary. It includes footage of that interview with Lovejoy. Vernon was also interviewed for this documentary and Vernon has also been very active on crime forums about this case, including a Reddit right he's a little obsessed with it so I mean, obsessed i don't know but he's he's obviously yeah, I guess obsessed right all these years later attention to it. Right. So basically, Vernon said that after they got divorced, he had to pay alimony and when the alimony when the alimony ran out when he he no longer had to legally pay Lovejoy one had more alimony because she had never worked and he supported her the whole time. And when he denied her request to continue alimony, then he said she would kill me if she could. That's what she would like to do. But she knows she can't get away with it. So second best thing would be to put me in jail for this murder for the murder of The Sims and put me in jail for for my whole life. That's her NAT that's now her goal. But she didn't realize this. Vernon says the reason she went to the police is to tiptoe around and find out a what evidence they had on her because they knew that they had never been ruled out as suspects. And also to to find out, I guess she discovered in the interview, she can't she can't testify against Vernon with the details needed to get a conviction without incriminating herself as well. And then also there's the reward money that maybe she was tiptoeing around to see if there was any possibility of getting the reward money if she turned him in. So they are the only two people that seem I guess, likely, but still, it seems to me again, like what was the motive? This was such a sweet, nice family. Nobody hated this family. Everybody respected them and liked them. But But again, like Lovejoy says, Lovejoy says she has had a horrific childhood very traumatic. She was abused her whole life. And then maybe she was jealous of the family that, you know, these girls had so much love from their parents and from their siblings. I you know, it's just it's hard to figure out it's hard to I guess, for somebody who would never do something like that. It's hard to imagine how anybody else could? Well, I think it's all right there. I mean, I think you know, but man, when you mess up the crime scene from the beginning, it makes things so difficult. Yeah, so my question is, in the 80s, Lovejoy comes and does a six hour interview that's, you know, filmed. And obviously, they're the only they're the two most likely suspects in this this crime. Where do you go from here, Chris, as an investigator, Is there anywhere else to go? Are these people just going to be if they really did it? Well, they get away with it for the rest of their lives. I wonder? Well, it just depends if anybody's continuing to work at work at so I mean, this is the thing, I would keep going back to her. And this is why because she likes to talk Why the hell would she come back in the 80s She has reasons for that. Either. It'd be money or whatever. But what that tells me she's willing to talk and he seems to like attention to though he did a documentary and he's active on the crime forums about this case, so and that but here's the other thing, Chris, like how would two people that did something so horrific in their late teens? Would they never do anything else? Like that creepy the rest of their lives? Or maybe not? too? Well, they may not have to though, because they're getting off by it. One it's not being it's not solved. to Now there's documentaries about it. They're getting a lot of attention. I mean, it might just be enough for them. You know what I mean? Like it could just be it's, it's seated her death obsession. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, obviously I think that like so asking me what I would do is well, first of all, were the two other daughters interviewed in the documentary, but two other sisters. No, not at all. Actually, they weren't at all I would talk to them a little bit. Yeah, I would talk to them and then I would let Mary and Vernon have diarrhea of the mouth and just talk talk talk even almost tried to manipulate it and be like man, you know, almost play it like the opposite like that's horrible that they think you're a suspect. What do you guys think? Because they're following it. You know, they didn't say in the dark. They did say in the documentary that the detective Larry Campbell. At one point in the interview, he cut Lovejoy off, which is the biggest nono right? Get you're supposed to just let them talk and hang themselves. Yeah, the more and that's what I'm saying is I've just let Mary and Vernon talk all they want just talk talk talk about brigade, could you legally bring both of them into the same room and play them against each other? Could you legally do? I would never know I would never bring them in the same room. Never. Never Never. I could play him against each other but not at the same time. Oh, interview one and then go back and say hey, Vernon said this. They'd have to they'd have to agree to an interview. They couldn't be brought in. Could they be mandatorily brought in to be interviewed for this crime all these years later? Well, I don't know. I don't know if they have any other evidence. I don't know if they have any other evidence but I don't know that it would be have to be mandatory. Like I said, I think they both like to talk. You think their fingerprints if they did it would be in the house because If you would thank me but like I said, we don't know it sounded like the crime scene was chaos. So police work. Good old fashioned police work may have gone down the tubes as far as the crime scene people doing what they needed to do because there's a turf war between the police and the sheriff's there's people in and out of it. It's chaotic. I mean, yeah. Well, what an interesting case. So again, viewers if you're interested in it, man, what's it called again? 641 Mario Kart? Yes. 641 Mario Kart, Kyle Jones is the documentarian he he was a student when he made this documentary and he just did such a fabulous job is tremendously compelling. Alrighty, all right. Well, thanks for bringing this case to our attention what a horrible, horrible murders for this family and just that no one's been arrested makes it worse. So again, we appreciate all the listenership all the emails, please share. If you haven't rated us please do and we'll see you next time on murder with mannina. If you have a cold case you'd like Chris to review submitted through our website at murder with mannina.com and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at murder with mannina and Twitter at murder W mannina. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode of murder with mannina