Little Boy Lost: The Search For Kyron Horman

Seven-year-old Kyron Horman disappeared on June 4, 2010, from Northwest Portland’s Skyline Elementary after stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman dropped him off with his second-grade science project on tree frogs.  Chris reviews this case which had many twists and turns in the investigation from the beginning and sparked the largest criminal investigation in Oregon history.

Transcript

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People just want to know what it's like to be me. How does it feel to see a dead body? Tell a family their loved one has been murdered. Talk to a rape victim, catch a killer and get them to confess. Hold on tight, my friends. Get ready for the journey. And welcome to murder with mannina. Hello, everyone and welcome to another edition of murder with mannina. It is dead of summer. Let me tell you it is so unbelievably hot here in Indy. It's like 86 degrees. But the humidity is I went out and ran. I went out and ran last night. It was like 70. Right? You think perfect. The humidity was so thick. It was just I can almost not deal but in a week and a half. I'm going to Florida. Yay. For your birthday. Yeah, celebrate your birthday. Yeah, which is my happy place. But I read an article that I'm going to Fort Lauderdale, of course, near Hollywood beach. And I read an article at the ocean temperature was 90 degrees. Oh, that's not good. Yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm on my I'm in my happy place. I'm on the beach. So I'm gonna jump right into this. This week's case. So a lot of you may have heard this, I will be surprised if you haven't heard about it. But I want to get it back out there again for a couple of reasons. And I also want to just really give you guys an example of a little boy that's gone missing in pretty much everything that could be done has been done. And it just needs to go back to the obvious and what I mean by that is it's been covered by Dateline, investigation, discovery, it's it's it was a huge, huge case. So anyways, but it just it also, you know, amplifies the hole. So many cases don't get even a quarter of the effort that was put into this. So this little guy, ah, gosh, he's from Oregon. And this is the most extensive search in Oregon's history. There were over 1300 volunteers that tried to look for this little guy. So the way they kind of described him, and he went missing June 4 of 2010. But how they kind of described him was they said, if you saw him, you'd see a small boy with a huge smile, an oversized graphic kind of T shirt that kind of swallowed him, and two goofy front teeth and a pair of metal framed glasses. But he was beloved by everybody. He was a second grader. And he went to Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon. His name was Chiron, Hormann. He but he had poor vision. But like most second graders, it didn't stop him from seeing and enjoying the world around him. If you peek through his glasses, you could see constant trips to aquariums, zoos, forests and beaches. He was just pretty much into anything and everything never knew a stranger. And everybody just kind of gravitated to him and just loved them. He was placed however, in the advanced math placement and in an in an advanced math. And he was placed into or flashes of sort of a sign language group, which he had begun picking up so he was very smart in math. And he was doing some sign language because he had some hearing and some visual difficulties. So like I said, family and community loved him. He was excelling in school. He was loving nature. He had made occasional trips to Disney World. And he saw which is I really think just he was described as being able to see the beauty in the world through his smile. Oh, that is a beautiful description. It's like wow. Okay, so here we go. June 4 of 2010. It was kind of a big day for him. He was about to present his trifold science project about red tree frogs at his elementary school. So he made this huge, huge science project. He was really excited that day to show his stepmom, Terry his project, but the only way that she could see it if she is if she took Chiron to school early before it got started. And so she borrowed Chiron stash trakehner This is stepmom, Terry. So she borrowed Chiron dad's truck to bring Chiron trifled home. So she just did that. The science fair that Chiron were present his work didn't start until one but Chiron and Terry arrived at the elementary school with the truck at at Emma's plant. In fact, they were seen in front of his exhibit at 815 in the morning by a PTA president. At 845. Terry watches Chiron walk toward his classroom before she leaves the elementary school without chyron science project. Strangely A Skyline elementary school student remember seeing Chiron near the school south entrance around nine. And this is the last time anyone has seen or heard from him. Oh, is that the school which is crazy? Oh, that is not okay, so the classes are in session around 10am But Chiron is in an attendance, prompting which is fantastic his homeroom teacher to mark him as absent. After watching Chiron walk toward his classroom, Terry left Skyline elementary without Chiron science fair project, which was the purpose of Bahrain to truck in the first place, and she runs errands between 1010

and 11: 5:40

39am. These errands include going to two grocery stores and driving your daughter around in the truck to alleviate the pain of her daughter's ear infection until her medicine kicked in. So, Chiron er, Congress has a stepson, and then she's got a daughter, okay, at 1139. Terry checks in at a 24 hour gym and works out for about an hour. She posts a picture taken earlier that morning of Chiron and his science fair project on Facebook at about 120 In the afternoon, at 330. Terry and Kane Kairos father meet the school bus and learn that Chiron has not been absent or had been absent from school day, which prompts Susan Hill, the school secretary to call 911 to report him missing that remember, the teacher marks him absent at 845. And I was just being a little excited. What should she have done was I think now in this world that we're living in when a kid doesn't come to school, it needs to make maybe a phone call home. Right? Because I thought that was standard. I don't think it's standard. No, I had the at the school that my son went to it was standard. It's not it's not anymore, because I read too many of these cases that parents don't find out their kids didn't go to school until they're home from work. One that's true. This is not the first time they're waiting. The case like this. Yeah. Or they're waiting for them to come off the bus. So at 330. Secretary calls 911 to report him missing. Please arrive on the scene 45 minutes later. I don't love that. But whatever. At 530 the Portland Public School sends out a mass text appearance that that reads Kyron Horman did not arrive at home today. It's

7: 7:35

45pm. The sheriff's personally lost the FBI of Carens disappearance and between 809 and 1045. A search and rescue teams arrive and conduct a comprehensive search of the elementary school including a tunnel near the school. So what they did really, really well I don't love it that it took 45 minutes for the police to arrive. But they started the FBI involved in this really, really quickly. All right, they started a search pretty pretty quickly. And I think that's based on his age. It's also based, you know, on on a few disability things that he may have said also it happened on school grounds. Well, yeah, right. And so I think that's something to do with it. Absolutely. Good point. You know, at the secretary. Right when she finds out that he went missing She immediately calls 911. So the following day, everyone is still searching. And then everyone staff the parents of children who were at school the day before are told to come to the police to a police briefing on Sunday. And the FBI and the National Guard have now joined the search. June 6 The next day the FBI brings in a profile, the community passes out primers missing persons flyer and the search for him bronze and is now being traded treated as an in danger child case. Now, I have never heard in all of the cases that I've looked at that a profile had been brought in so early kudos to them. I've just never heard that right. It's always right way after. All right. So between June 4, and the day went missing in June 13. The search for him continued and expanded into outer territories including sabe Island, a small island six miles away. And but on June 13 Kai runs case transitions from a missing person case to a criminal investigation and the following two weeks, you know, there's search activities. There's billboards, billboards, there's donations, and rumors are now starting to circulate about Karen's body being found. Or I'm sorry about a body being found and so more fliers are released an update. Now that is happening on June 13. An update isn't given again until the 18th when Terry the stepmom undergoes a second polygraph test now I don't know when they gave her the first one but within Ha she is now giving a second polygraph and I would imagine that the first one for her was given pretty early in the investigation cuz she was obviously the last one that was with him. Makes sense. Yep. So she does third or second polygraph test between June 26 And July 1. Chiron family undergoes rather serious changes during this week to 911 calls are made from the Horman residence. The first evening call recording a threat. The second night's call recording a custody issue, and Cain takes his daughter and moves out of the home. Two days later, Terry denies allegations of Cain moving out with his daughter. The Sheriff's Department releases a statement that the Horman family is cooperating. Terry's name isn't mentioned on this document and media speak about a potential divorce between Terry and Kane. The following day, June 29, a judge seals an order of protection against Terry and two days later Kane files for divorce, getting full custody of his daughter, Terry is only allowed to communicate with Kane's daughter via letters and is banned from Skyline Elementary. So Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall on the two weeks of their conversations? And now all of a sudden they're getting a divorce? What were the issues? Before this happened? There had to be some serious issues. I think she's involved. Here we go. So they are really pounding on Terry's activities. And the month of July, a landscaper report to the ori Oregonian as I say it that Terry attempted to hire a hit here hire a hit what? Oh, try to hire this landscaper to become a hitman. She moves out of Kane's house and law enforcement applies pressure on Terry's friends even searching the house of DD Spicher. A friend of Terry's who was unaccounted for some time, the day that Chiron went missing. So now they are totally digging in. Right like I've always said gotta go to the best friends you've got. So they obviously have her have their eyes on her. Okay, so different than that was in July so she will strive to hire a hitman. August witnesses say in the skyline administration and staff as well as family and friends including Deseret chi, Ron's real mother, Tony young, his stepfather, and Kane, they testify in a County Circuit Court, an anonymous witness who attended the same gym as Terry on the day. Chiron disappeared, also tell him also testified. Searches for Chiron are still ongoing. I don't know what the hell, they were testifying and there's been no arrests made. I don't know why they're even in court that they just stopped. But right. So between August of 2010, and now we're going to jump six years to 2016. Three main themes of events that repeat the first theme is that constant search for Chiron via law enforcement search teams and volunteers who explore new areas, revisit old areas and exhaust their options. The second theme that emerges as the legal battles between Terry and Tony and Deseret, which circulates around the finalization of Cain and Terry's divorce status, calling out Terry's potentially unstable and questionable character and suspicious tendencies, in addition to arguments over money. The last theme is the investigating changing direction as numerous searches continue to be unsuccessful law enforcement disbands the task force created for Chiron narrows their search area and investigates individuals within the story. I always say keep it simple, right? So the great thing about this is that it got really, really big, really, really quick. And what I mean by that is it got big because you brought in the FBI, you have all of these volunteers searching. You have dive teams, you have all of these people and it makes it really, really big, right? However, sometimes when that happens, right, you, you're doing so many big things that you're you kind of are you can miss what's right in front of you. I don't think that the police miss what was right in front of them. But with that statement, they're saying, Okay, we've done everything big. In the circle. We've got to go back to the beginning of the circle, which of course, is Terry in the family and the friends. So, here we are, he would be 20 He would be in his 20s There's a 50,000 They'll reward leading to the arrest and all of that. Okay, so he was seven at the time, he was white. He's three, he was three foot eight. And he was 50 pounds, okay, and he had those really distinct round glasses. So once we go and we look at this timeline, you're gonna get a lot more information about Terry, that makes her so suspicious and just some twists and turns. And I know why. Dateline. And in all of those shows, did it because it's very, very twisty. But it makes me sad, because it just is telling the world that unless your murder child or your missing child has a lot of twists and turns, we're not going to give you the coverage, because people won't think it's cool on TV. You know what I mean? be compelling. It's a compelling story. Exactly, which makes me really sad. So here we go. Like I said before June 4, she posts a photo of him and her in the science project are right at 120 and 530. They announced that he didn't come home from school. Everything is starting seven o'clock. Sheriff's department's all on board. They're doing an on call coordinator for search and rescue. Starting to get huge, right? You see the snowball, same June 4 at the evening. Someone though, between seven and 715. calls and says Hey, make sure that you look in that little I guess there was like a little tunnel underneath the school. So somebody does that. Okay. FBI is contacted same day. I'm sorry, it 911 calls me at 1044 with an unindicted unidentified 911 caller who wants to make sure that the officers check the train tunnel near the school. The caller told police that sometimes kids play in there and wanted to make sure someone has checked that great information. I want to know who made that call, because believe it or not, they come back to crime scenes. And they also call in tips. Right. Wow, I would want to know that they came back to crime scenes. I don't think I knew that they call in tips. Oh, absolutely. We are now into the next morning June 5 at five in the morning. Pacific Northwest search and rescue now joins the effort. They're huge around 5am. The sheriff office call that search and rescue There are nearly 70 people already aiding in the search efforts. I mean, this is huge. This is huge. Nine o'clock and they do another press conference about him so they're getting them out on the media. Later on that day. An additional tip line is created out of the UK a UK based missing children website created a tip for Chiron so I mean, not only in Oregon, but all over the world. I mean, it is snowballing. June 5 Again, the Portland school district issued an alert to all Skyline staff and parents of students who were at the school on Friday, to come to K through eight on Sunday for a debriefing by police and federal agents. The older students were told to arrive at 10 While the younger kids were told to arrive later, really, really bright to do that, right? Like you're getting all of the kids, all of the rumors, and I love rumors. The rumors are just that but I've had so much great luck with rumors it has led me down to the killer so many times. Okay, now we're back into the evening Facebook pages create it like always. The next morning, Terry post on Facebook saying she ordered missing person flowers which will be arriving at her house. He also said I will let people know when they are here. And we can go from there. Thank you, everyone. She's playing the part pretty well. FBI announces the next day that they're bringing in an FBI profiler from Quantico to create a profile of chyron haven't heard of this. This is so fat weight a profile of chyron or a profile of the killer or the wolf the abductor probably both right in the reason that you would like to do a profile of the child to is like getting it's more of like getting that information out. And this is what he looked like and this is kind of how he acts right? He had some disabilities and he has you know tendencies to act a certain way he would be wearing you know, this is what he would be wearing Be on the lookout right? This is where he may go because we don't know if he was abducted rent run away. We don't know. Here are his tendency so you're doing the profile for the tendencies and of course you're trying to build a profile for a suspect as well. Same day around noon family starts passing out. Flyers they give the description three foot 850 pounds, blue eyes brown hair, last seen wearing a black cargo pants, white socks, and worn black sketcher tennis shoes with orange Trenton really, really specific, that's great. Later on in the afternoon, the Portland school superintendent speaks now of course they're trying to right they're really really involved for obvious reasons. Like you said from the very beginning. I was taken from the school. So there are oh my god there. Oh my god in in our pants, right so they're very, very much involved. The next day in the evening, Kelly Ramirez is the sister of Deseret Young who does ri Yong was mom issues a statement thanking the community for their help and ongoing concern. So all the families getting June 8, the next day search team continues. A reward fund is made. Tonight search and rescue they're still doing their search Terry would make her Facebook wall private. That's weird. That's very strange. Why? Okay. Later on that morning, FBI spokeswoman comments on clearance family lack of media presence. So, Beth and Steele, she's an FBI spokeswoman woman publicly stated that the Horman family is not speaking to the media because they do not believe it's in the best interest of finding Chiron so it's kind of weird, right? Like they're doing a lot. It appears that they're doing a lot but the FBI person is saying they're not talking to the media very much. Who knows people are dealing with grief, they're dealing with shock. And it sounds like it's a zoo right? I mean, should they? The next day at about noon they the family decides that they're going to make a statement and they pretty much just say hey, we appreciate they want to thank the support and interest in finding their son. The outpouring of support continues efforts strengthens their hope. They need folks to continue to assist and the goal please search for properties, cars, outbuilding sheds, also check with neighbors and friends who may be on vacation or may need an in assistance in searching. There are a lot of resources here to help the search. So please don't stop it's obviously a difficult time. And so on and so on. Okay, so now they're speaking. later on that night about 1010 o'clock at night. The Portland mount mountain rescue receives a call from the sheriff's office to join the search now they've even got more search people in two days later. Finally, the family mom stepdad those make a news conference appearance. What they say is we miss you. We love you and we need you home now. Then, thanks all the volunteers. That is June 11. Okay, okay. That's a week. Wow. Okay. A week my mom would be on the news, losing her shit on the news every single time she could they waited a week. You hate the judge, but you just you know. You want to get the word out and have as many eyes as possible looking out for him. Yep, yep. Okay. The search for Chiron still continues the next day. By noon. The sheriff's office asked the public to limit their donations because of a surplus. They're getting so much money and never heard of that in my life. Okay, June 13. That becomes a criminal investigation, I guess officially. Search resumes. However, it is not long until a news briefing is held to inform the public that the search effort will come to an end because the missing persons investigation is shifting to a criminal investigation. This has all been missing persons up to this point. So nine days it was just investigated as a missing persons now as a criminal investigation. His search was the largest search in the state history with the assistance of over 1300 people from Oregon and surrounding states. A two mile radius around the school and parts of the island which is approximately six miles away from school for also searched. They continue to make statements the sheriff's department they've got t shirts out there they've got missing fliers. 15th A photo of his glasses are released. Remember me saying it the beginning that was a big thing about him is his Yeah, they were distinct. Yep. So on the last day of the 2009 2002 school year, they released a photo of a pair of glasses that resemble a pair that he was wearing when he went missing. Alright sheriff's office's release his new edited photo from him of the day of the science fair. So now they're starting to because it's a criminal thing. Now they're starting to give a little bit more, right like they're starting to give the pictures and the videos and different things, billboards or 30 billboards erected around the area. All right, June 17. Now rumors are starting to circulate on social media that Hirens body had been found to an ATF sheriff's office releases a news flyer and continued questioning Skylines parents and students about the day that he went vanished. That was just a rumor his body obviously didn't was not found. June 18 Caption Jason gates tell suppress the family approves the flyer and nobody has been found. So Captain from the police department, they make a flyer that literally says the body has not been found. Alright, so again, like I said June 18. So now we're June 4 That happened. June 18 Stepmom takes her second polygraph, a friend of Terry tells the Oregonian that Terry will take a second polygraph the next day. Deseret young Hirens mother writes an open letter for him on a couple days after that, and I don't know about that. But new photos are released 200 new photos of him in some home videos are released. I mean, the amount of work that's going into this absolutely frickin floors me just floors me. Mom and dad, they make a news appearance again on the 25th just tried to keep his name. You know in it, they're releasing a little bit more but not a lot. June 26 Cane moves out of his home and takes his young daughter with him. Okay, fallen apart. We're three weeks into this falling apart. People Magazine even did an article on this and that hit July 5. People Magazine issue at the second issue two feature Cameron's disappearance, Terry's father, Larry Moulton tells People magazine that Terry had to undergo repeated interviews for up to six hours each day. Larry also tells people that the truck Terry was driving that day was examined by police twice. So the police have done a really, really good job. June 28 2010, it's still the same thing. News reports that Kane has moved out of the family home and taken his daughter they're jumping on that the media is jumping on the fact that now that the family is being kind of torn apart. Later that afternoon, Terry is approached by approached by the Oregonian denies the claim that came moved out with his daughter. So now she's denying saying it didn't happen. There's reports that it did happen. It's just a mess. They want to later on they want to release a statement that says that they are cooperating that the family is cooperating with the investigation, which I think why would you have to do that? Why would you have to say we are crop rumor started that they weren't? Because he didn't want to do any media for a week. That's yeah. Right. And indicative of maybe not cooperating? Yeah, right. So June 29. A judge seals the order of protection against Terry. So somebody filed a protective order against her. She and thirtyish. She hires a defense attorney. She's able to slip past reporters and returns home with her defense attorney stays for an hour but before confirming that he is now representing so it took her 26 days to get a to get an attorney. Okay. Okay. June 30. And that came after to lie detectors which would she would have had to say yes to write it would have been mandatory. No, you can't make somebody great. So she she was twice she agreed to it. She agreed to it. Kane files for divorce, and for an order of protection against Terry Terry was allegedly sending explicit photos to a man she recently. Wow, right. So divorce is granted, Kane gets full custody of his daughter. Terry invokes her fifth amendment right the right to a grand jury when given the deposition for her divorce. Because Tara didn't want to risk losing any freedom such as custody or visitation Schrute she remained silent. Cain would be awarded custody of their daughter while Terry would only be allowed to communicate via letters or calls. She was also banned from the elementary. July 2 sheriff's makes a statement that six of its seven detectives are working on the case along with 14 investigators from other agencies be in the clearance disappearances almost at the four week mark Stanton could not say if an arrest or resolution would be happening soon, or how long the sheriff's department could sustain their effort. The amount of detectives is I just don't even know what first how they did it. Like I'm trying to think I guess I could get detectives from other counties to have to help on my cases. But it was just so you know, it people are just so busy right and I think the media pressure on the sheriff is like we've really got to make a stand. That we're doing everything we can. Okay so a reporter from the Oregon Oregon Ian report said a landscaper who worked on the form of family pride Somebody told law enforcement that Terry offered to pay the landscaper to kill her husband. The landscaper told the reporter that Terry approached him for the murder for hire plot nearly seven months before Chiron vanished, Terry allegedly offered a large amount of money to carry out the killing. So did she maybe kill Chiron to get back at him? Because this was seven months before he went missing? Where she wanted her husband dead. You know, yeah, look, and how credible is that? landscaper did they obviously they? Well, it seems it seems pretty credible to me from what I mean, why would someone why would someone come out of the blue with that? Oh, you know, that would be so straight. Exactly. Yeah. So, cane horm and ask the judge to order Terry to move out of their shared family home judge releases a petition supporting canes order protection, so he is now being protected. She doesn't contest the restraining order. They start in June of 2010. They start putting more pressure on Terry's friends, which is really really smart. They search DDS home, the investigators go back to mom and search her home. Okay. Investigators also interview people who saw dd The Day of Carens disappearance. She was also present at Kane hormones after Kane moved out and filed a restraining order against Terry that Pashtoon. DD was also seen driving Terry to and from Steven houses have Office which was the attorney. Okay. Michael Cook has a whole close high school friend of Kane. He's interviewed by investigators because he was seen at Kane's house after Chiron vanished, and maybe he just called them and said, Oh my gosh, I can't find my son. But I love the way that they are starting to interview I say that in every case, you've got to go to the people that are closest to the people that are involved in the case. Always. All right, here's another interesting thing. June 26. Came files a motion asking the judge to disclose the source of the$350,000 that Terry was going to pay. Wow. To retain no to retain a lawyer. He wanted to know where the hell though? I thought you were gonna say higher than that man to hire a lawyer. But But wait a second, how did she that you don't think that part of that 350,000 was going to be given to the hitman. He obviously didn't do the job. And you don't go to a hitman and say, you know, kill my husband and not give him money. So she had a large amount of money. And now he's wondering where the hell she got $350,000 You see, wow, how mysterious right? So canes attorney states and the motion that if respondent has provided funds to attorneys for her legal representation and considers them to be marital liability, these funds are marital property respondents should be required to pay one half of these funds to Petitioner because Kane finds out she's got all this money and he wants a piece of it. June 26 Dateline, they do an hour special called Little Boy last, which is always good Ryan. The reward is increased from 25,000 to 50,000. August 7, they go back and they start doing searches again they resume it. They focus on a 2.2 mile stretch of old Germantown Road loop not far from where DD Spicher was gardening the day chyron vanished. So now they're looking at mom a little bit. They searched until August 9 So they give that two days. They do another press conference on the 11th and they start to give a little bit of details about that white Ford F 150 that she was seeing driving that day including two sightings at a different locations of Skyline Elementary, and two different Fred Myers. I guess that must be a store just off Cornelius past Hillsboro around nine. So they're trying to get people to come forward about the truck that she was driving and where she went that day. Right so more divorce documents are being filed. This goes on and on exclusive interview about Terry is published or a Oregonians on this stuff. Terry is described as controlling, self centered, demanding and short tempered. November 15 2010, Karen's birth parents united front starts to crack so the birth parents have been united up to this. They've been seen on different media outlets. They've been interview. Now it's starting to come. It's starting to see some cracks throughout the investigation. The parents desertrian Crane had been united in the efforts to bring home their son, however, Deseret accused Terry of having a severe hatred of Chiron and the issue with the choices Kane has made regarding I was wondering about when that was going to come up is that what was Um, I mean shit united front I can only put myself in the biological mother's shoes and think my first thought would be why would you bring somebody like this into our children's lives? Exactly. So who okay respond, stating he has always been truthful about how he felt about Terry's alleged involvement in Chiron disappearance, even though he never felt that Terry was a threat to Chiron. It's kind of back passwords. It really doesn't it doesn't really add up does it because his first instinct was to Well, it appears was to blame her believe that she may have something to do with it. So yeah, doesn't matter. That doesn't come out of nowhere. February 2011. FBI dedicated six agents to gosh, like wow, okay, can you believe that stuff, march 26. The searches continue, particularly in areas that couldn't be searched in January due to poor weather, they returned to the stretch of Northwest Skyline road, and they continue to search for them June 2 of 2011. The task force disbands the sheriff's department analysis at the task force that was created for chi Ron's case will be disband as of July 1 2011. However, there will still be a lead detective work in the case as well as assistance from the FBI, State Department of Justice and county prosecutors. All right Deseret young withdraws the lawsuit in August of 2011 that she filed against Terry. The lawsuit was filed because Deseret believes that Terry had kidnapped Chiron and had demanded to know the location of his body. Deseret was seeking a$10 million in damages however, a judge had delayed the case because it could impact the ongoing criminal investigation, which does Reed did not want to interfere with September 17 2011. Cain and Deseret appear on Dr. Phil, who Dateline Dr. Phil ID, airing their differences on live television. Kane and Terry's divorce is finalized December 31 of 2013. They got married in April 2007 and filed for divorce. 20 days after Chiron vanished. Finally can get custody of the daughter may 30 of 2014 is the fifth anniversary. We're now into 2016. Terry appears on the Dr. Phil Show and tells him she believes Chiron was abducted by a man driving a white pickup truck. That's what she learned she come up with that. Oh, God, I don't know. Now they're now in the process of doing the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children releases an update and an age progression, a photo of Chiron showing what he would look like. At this age, he would be 14 in 2017 May 30 2,019th. As a ninth anniversary true cry ride or Rebecca Rebecca Morris releases a book about Kevin's case titled boy missing the search for Chiron, Harmon, or Hormann. And then Id does a does a show may 29 of 2020. Here we are June 4 of 2022 is just an updated age progression photo was released. Crazy, How mysterious, baffling? So you know there is it's crazy to me that with all of the efforts that they haven't found him. So there's a part of me that thinks that maybe he's not dead. I don't know. Like when they start to do the age progression. It's just there's got to be you have to look down that road as well. You have to that's why the age progressions are always done right when they're not found. But he's so little, I mean, he's just an in second grade. There's so many dynamics with the family and with mom, but kudos to the police department to me, they absolutely freaking did everything that they could and everything that I would try to do where where did the 350,000 come from? Because my first thought is this. Here's my first thought she she took Chiron and she sold him into human slavery maybe that's the I mean that's the only thing I'm thinking is like that's my first thought what it's almost like what else could could it be? Because where did she come up with that amount of money? That's a lot of money. Exactly. And also of the Asus would have heard this little boy. I mean, it just it it seems like like you say Who else who else could have you know, kind of start from that angle? There isn't a single person as far as we know, that could have except a stranger but why would a stranger be on a school ground and choose that little boy that's a fascinating case. It's hard raking, um, you know, I say I'd love to get cases of all kinds out. But just, but it just goes to show you that even when you have the best, and so much media and so many people searching, there's just sometimes where you just, you can't seem to get it but it's still with Terry, it's absolutely with Terry, you right? I wonder if they know it's her and just after all of these years, they don't have enough evidence and without a body How do you even get the DNA? Or like you said, maybe he's alive out there. Maybe he was sold into human slavery? I don't know. That's the only thing I can think of. But then I just saw the sound of freedom, which I have to do a big shout out for that. Everybody go see that movie. Sound of freedom. It's about it's a true story about a man who rescued more than 50 kids with with help from another person rescued over 50 kids from human slavery. Why true story so everybody go out and see it. Everyone see it? It's a it's a meaningful and phenomenal movie. Yeah. All right, guys. Well, probably most of you are at least familiar with this case. But if you if you weren't, there's a ton of documentation about it. But we appreciate everybody listening and share, review and keep listening. We appreciate you all and we will see you next time on murder with mannina. If you have a cold case you'd like Chris to review submitted through our website at murder with mannina.com and follow us on Instagram and Facebook at murder with mannina and Twitter at murder W mannina. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode of murder with mnann