Of Music & Men # 42

What happens when clout, courtrooms, and capitalism pull hip-hop in different directions at once? We dig into the mess with open eyes and steady hands—challenging the narratives that trend while following the money that makes them move. From the 6ix9ine cycle to K Flock’s looming sentence, we ask why the spectacle still sells and who pays when it does.

Transcript

Catch-Up And Setting The Tone

SPEAKER_01 0:00

It Late in LA of Music Event Episode 42 of Music and Men just a tap in it. What's up, Dre? What's up? What's up, bro? You got that perfect timing?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Good, good, you know. Back on the uh East Coast, back in the snow.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

No, come on, bro. You ain't gonna wrap your door.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

What?

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Come on, bro.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

You on the wrong side of the state. Not the wrong side, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Come on, bro. It's perfect, Tom and Drace. He's on good. He thought they could stop him. Can't stop God.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Somebody's gonna pull a God dead.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Oh, God did, most definitely. He did his uh he did his big one. I can just feel like the lightning and uh the thunder.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Just brewing above.

6ix9ine And The Cycle Of Clout Crime

SPEAKER_01 1:13

You know, it's also brewing. 6'9. He's uh dealing with a case. He broke his probation a bunch of times. I mean, this is classic dickhead behavior, you know. This guy's got kids. Like, what is this shit gonna stop being funny? Like, I thought it was funny initially, but now it's like, bro, is this not old to you? Is this a part of his business model? Like, it's so weird.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Some people just don't know how to not be locked up, confined. Some people like that shit. All right, like that's why they keep doing things that will put them back in to the situation. He was on house arrest for how long, like, how knows? And then he does, he's breaks his probation by what did he he went somewhere or he did something, and it's just like you don't ever want to not be in the system.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Yeah, I mean, this guy has the money, this guy has the opportunity. I I see him making some money in the stream world. I'm thinking that's his lane. And listen, bro, this dude that like the stuff he be doing outside of that, it'd be so astinine, which is like at this point, if you're entertaining, just entertain, bro. Like everything else is like, you're just gonna crash and burn. And that's all him, right? That's on him.

unknown 2:33

Exactly.

K Flock, Consequences, And Culture

SPEAKER_01 2:35

How do you feel about this? Uh how do you feel about this K Flock situation? You know, the rapper from New York, one of the guys that was like one of the forefront of the drill scene coming out of New York for a little while. K Flock is facing 50 years in prison.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

What did he do exactly?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

I think he shot someone.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Well, just wanted to clarify if you do criminal activities, you are going to go to jail.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Yeah, I don't know why people are like surprised. Like, I understand, like he said in a song that if you run up on it, run up on him in traffic, go up it. And I guess he did do that. And people are really excited about that, but like the ramifications are the ramifications. You go to jail for a long time, you should probably try to be a better person after that. The kid's only like I don't even think he's 20, bro.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

I mean, in 50 years may not scare some people, but like if you're Hawaii in out there now and you know, these are your people you're looking up to, your celebrities or whatever. You think it's fun outside. Being put in a cell for 50 years is not gonna be fun. Like if it was someone who's getting arrested or space and time for like some questionable things, out of a lot more to say, bro. If you're gonna be a criminal, if you're gonna do if you're going to commit murder, activity stuff just for the clout, it's not much sympathy coming that way. They got you and you're arrested, that's where you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Yeah, I mean, you know, we wish the best for people, but like once you get into certain situations, like I think we gotta make this a part of the culture too, right? Like, listen, we're a murderer and you people, like, this should be cool. I'm sorry. Uh I know that's not thorough. You know, if people say shit. Like, like you just allowed like murder, they were like, no, they got that like you soft now. What happened to you? Like, I'm sorry. I'm fucking sorry.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Like I can't I don't feel Timothy. I'm gonna stay for it. Like, like, once again, if it's questionable situations, that's one thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

You're being in a just a flat criminal girl like that. It is what it is. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Speaking of is what it is, we got 50 Cent doing the Diddy Doc, doing all this media. How do you feel about the did you watch the Diddy Doc? How do you feel about the media?

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I didn't, I didn't. There's different ways to look at it. I mean, like, watching the doc and just seeing more and more like I know I could watch it, and it would just show me more and more people who knew about the things that he was doing and not saying anything about it, right? Which I get it also, like y'all are spending the 90s or 2000s watching Diddy Kill People. Maybe I'd keep quiet too, you know. But the point of it is coming out for all this stuff at this point, after it's already been decided that he's like not gonna get charged with the stuff that would have kept him away, probably for life, and now that he's like going to eventually be free when he gets off his what he has to do, like two years or something.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah, you got like two, two to four.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

And I think the time he's already spent in is gonna count towards that. So he really only has like two like two and yeah, like two, two and a half. So, like pulling out stuff now, maybe it's like people feel safer, right? Like, let's come out with the stuff where he gets out of jail so that when he comes out, you know, maybe it'll his status would be lower. I don't know. He's gonna come out and some things will change, but I don't think a lot's going to. So I was like, there's no point in me watching this at all.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

So here's here's a couple things. Here's a couple things. I watched the Diddy thing. I saw it, I see what's trying to be like painted here, right? And there's a clear narrative, and it's gonna like leading to the other conversation we have about Marlin and 50 Cent itself, right? It's about where it's coming from as far as the source of the media. Um 50 Cent and Pink and you know, and Diddy have a real issue. Like they got problems, so a lot of this has bias, but the bias is against someone who is bad, so nobody cares. Right? But it has bias. Like, like, like that's the only argument that's really just being had. There is bias in it, that's valid. Yeah, it is about a bad person, so who really cares? Yeah, that's the only argument back towards it, right? Because logically, all right, you know there's bias here. But um my takeaway is that like 50 cent is making money off of the plight of another black man, point blank period. Is that wrong? That's up to you. But I say it's a symptom of capitalism at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

So, my only rebuttal to that, and not once again to I think anyone should have made a dog, but we know historically someone was going to make the doc. So, do we wish better that it was from us or from yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:17

There's no like it's just two less than evils, you know. Yeah, it was gonna happen, it's just where it's coming from and how it looks, and it still looks crazy. It looks bad, like like I understand the sentiment, but it looks bad collectively. True, but he he yeah, he like 50 Cent trending, he's on all these different uh media sites that usually don't give him much credence or care because he's disparaging his other black women, yeah. Right, but and that's the that's the point that people are making. I don't have the same stance, it's just that that's a point.

Snoop, Daz, And Family Money Drama

SPEAKER_00 8:54

I was gonna say, well, for I mean, for the people making that stance, I get it, right? Because we've made that same conversation. The Kendrick Drake thing and all that stuff like that. I will say though, this is different, and simply because of the actual evidence that we have that Diddy's a bad person. Like this is different in the, you know, making money by putting another black man situation.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I mean, if you're a pariah, you're gonna be treated like a pariah.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Diddy is a different story. But whether it was 50 or not, someone was gonna make the a documentary and someone was gonna make money off of the shit that he's done. But I think the more interesting question is just uh everyone doing all this stuff now, what it's going to happen if people are gonna keep the same energy when Diddy actually gets out of jail. And that's his two years.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Um the temperature is gonna be very different once he's out and about. I see a lot of charity from him and his team. I see a lot of giving back and trying to earn his way back into the black community. It'll be stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

How do you feel about this Snoop and you know his cousin Dez going back and forth over this death row shit, bro?

SPEAKER_00 10:09

So we see a lot of slimy shit all the time, and I don't think anyone's been previous to doing slimy shit. If you owe somebody money though, pay them. So, like these are all the legend, all alleged. Daz is saying you owe me money, you owe me royalty, you owe me this, this, and that. Snoop rebuttal to someone saying you owe me money is but I'd be giving you this, this, and this. Giving someone financial aid is nice, but that doesn't take over if you do a lot of money, or if you're screwing them on a business end somewhere else. Because then you're like, hey, I'm giving you this stuff so you kind of forget about this other stuff. It looks a little sketchy.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah, I mean, listen, Snoop is a fucking capitalist, bro. He likes this dynamic. This is his family, he should be doing better things. He's not. This shouldn't have leaked to anywhere. This should have been a conversation, right? And you should have gave him all his bread back. Because if you piece out, so if I owe you like 5,000, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

And I tell you, yo, I'll give you 50 every time I see you. But I I only got 50, and I only see you ever so often. Come the fuck on, bro. Like, of course, that's gonna cause issues, and of course, that 50 when I see you is cool, but I really need that five.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

That's five. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's uh it's a situation, it's a situation I wish they would stop. That was not Mr. Common. Like we just see it.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Why are you tripping, man?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

People get on these labels. I I still think it's crazy that out of everyone who was on Death Road, just like how many of them you think would have looked back and like, yo, in the future? Snoop's gonna own all this.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

Yeah, I mean, it's crazy how dynamics change with time. And it's crazy how Snoop, the artist, is turned into Snoop the businessman. Right? So, like, the way he's handling this situation now versus when he's younger, it's a stark difference. I wish they figured it out. This is family, family first, man. I that's what I wish. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

It it looks bad, man.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, money always the money always gets iffy as soon as you throw family in there.

Drake After The Beef And The Numbers

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Hey man, there's been a lot of iffy moments, you know. Drake has felt some iffy moments throughout the timeline, throughout the different times. We've seen some tragedy, and we've seen some people say he was dead, you know, he's eviscerated, no one knows about him, it's over, the Super Bowl, you know. A lot of people have said this shit to me, bro. They said it to me in my face, they said it publicly. Okay, and it's 2025, and Drake is the biggest artist on Apple. What's going on? What happened? What did I miss?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

I mean, some sexy songs for you was just too good.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

That's crazy, bro. How the fuck? No, literally, like I want to look throughout history, right? Like, the people who lose the beef are doing better well, if not better, after. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

It just, I mean, like, the more shit that happens that you end up overcoming, the more like it's gonna make it harder for future stuff. But like, that was maybe the final step. Like, Vake has beefed before, and he's gone to man it. That was probably his biggest loss. And just to watch the end of it, and we talked about this before, you know, him at his lowest, when he was at his lowest, he was still doing better numbers than Kendrick at the height of his career, which was within that beef, and now things are starting to rebalance out, and people are starting to again. And as art, because public perception still matters, it still did affect some numbers, but as artists start to reconnect with Drake again, and you see which artists actually like you know, they were oh Kendrick won, blah blah blah, all that crap in the beginning, right? Drake's dead. As soon as they start collabing with Drake again, their fans are gonna start or stop pretending like it actually mattered to them and that they weren't listening because the numbers show that all these people were still listening to Drake. Is it publicly he'll be fine again?

SPEAKER_01 14:43

I mean, that's what that's the thing. Like, it's a year later, and the perception is totally changed. Everybody's waiting for Iceman. Like, it turns that he's dead to waiting for Iceman.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

That is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

So it is crazy to see how the narrative can change just over a year. And it's gonna change next year, man. And we'll see.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Because like 2026 is gonna go crazy for him.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

That's a plot to us.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

2026 is gonna go crazy.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

He's also top five globally in Spotify. Everybody that's up there is the big dogs, you know, Bad Bunny, The Weekend, Taylor Swift, and Drake's up there as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

And then like Bruno Mars. I think those are like the only three or four people who ever do more numbers now.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah, and that's crazy because like, you know what? The I mean, listen, those are like bodified pop stars.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Right. So like people forget hip-hop rap are popular, but it is still like a like pop is always gonna be the number one genre. So Drake being in there as a top five as a rapper is insane. But that's what we were talking about before when we're like, you know, rap got knocked off with top 52 for the first time, basically since rap center owned. And it's like, okay, well, when you know y'all do a hit piece on your number one artist, it affects the genre overall. But Drake as a rap artist is going to be up there with the pop artist almost all the time.

Meg’s Win, Defamation, And Vlad Culture

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah. And you just gotta have more than one thing to offer to the public. I think that's the issue. And the criticism on Drake is that he's not just one thing. So, you know, people gotta deal with it, get it how you live. How do you feel about this Meg situation? She just won her defamation case. I believe she's awarded like 56k.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

So that is to her. I think that's kind of slight to win. First off, kudos to him for winning. We talked about this before. If you're doing online bullying, if you're using AI to make sex tapes to other people, if you're doing all that shit like that, first of all, you should be locked up. Use doing AI defects with people for reporting, it should be like a federal offense. But I'm glad she won her court case on that. And hopefully that stops other people from doing stuff like the uh chick was doing online.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Well, here's the thing though, but people are saying she spent all that money on her lawyers and that the payout was so small that she really didn't want anything. I'm just letting you know what the people are saying.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

I mean, that's true, and maybe for her morally, it was just to set the standard, and if that's still the case, still think that's a dub. Now, not everyone has the financials to really go ahead and win stuff like that, but once you set a precedent, she's won that case off of precedent. It makes it easier for other good to do it because they won't have to fight as hard now.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah. How do you feel like like, you know, when people get sued and shit, like Blueface saying all this shit about Meg is kind of crazy, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:59

So him talk well first off, yeah, him just top.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

I think I don't know why he's either A1 on Vlad, and two, why he's publicly talking about him doing sexual shit with Meg. Corny. But also that's kind of the reason I'm watching Vlad, anyways. But yeah, if it's not true, especially the timelines that he's alluding to and stuff like that leading to other issues, it's not true. I think Meg would sue him too.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

It's just crazy to be having that type of information about yourself on the net and people that's able to spew whatever. I I think she's just suing. Because, like, this shit is on DJ Vlad, bro. You know?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

It's not gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

See that shit, bro.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah, it's it's not gonna be a good one.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Um what's up with DJ Vlad? Why does he even post that type of shit, bro?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Because you know what he's here for.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

You telling me he's not a part of the culture? That's why he has his face. Come on, bro. Him, Rosenberg, he has his face. Andrew Schultz, they're all for the culture, bro.

Akademiks Vs. NY OGs And Style

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Rory they're just they're just comedians, right?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

You hear me?

SPEAKER_00 19:23

What? Rory, Rory.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yeah, bro. He he got like canceled for like there's some tweets about black women backing on his past, you know, called bonkers. Yeah, but this is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

People forget the internet, the internet's forever, so bro.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

He was liking this black frat, so that's a crazy work doing the shambian on that.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, no, Blue Trace here he got other stuff going on, maybe he's just distracting from and so he's just no. Spitting drama stuff.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

How do you feel about DJ academics going to war with the New York Oheads, Mado, and all of them? They're going back and forth about fashion, about this and that. Of course, DJ Academics is bringing the street shit into it, and that's always crazy to me, but I feel like the OG's gotta stay away from guys like that. He's the ultimate situation.

unknown 20:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:30

You know, he's gonna he's gonna turn into a situation where people think you're not gonna respond. You have to respond a certain way. And if you don't, you're this way. Like that's the situation he puts people in. And then the whole time, he will call the police. He does have a security team.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Like, I think because Axe has been around people like this a lot, he as you said, he knows how to get to them. And he wants a reaction and he wants them to say certain things. That being said, what do you call them? Just talking about the way they dress and wear and stuff like that. That's always been a thing people like to bully about and talk about, right? Now listen, older folks want to look younger by all means, you know, live your best life. It's just typical trolling by academics. And for the older folks, I'm like, why y'all even beefing like my boy?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

This shit's all about dollars, man. It is a little wild for him to be dressed in that way, but like you can't tell anybody they style, you know? The style is their style. So, like, you know, if an OG dressed like a young boy, that's who he is.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

He a young boy at heart. You know?

SPEAKER_00 21:52

He was the YN before it was cool.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

And who cares about titles? You know, how you dress is how you describe yourself to the world and how we interact with you will be those interactions. But um, speaking of interactions, look at Ray J and his dumb shit, bro. It's crazy. All the shit he's got going on at one time and on stream, on public. It's it's wild, man. How do you feel about this Ray J guy?

SPEAKER_00 22:23

So, I mean, I looked into his stuff, like the hitchhiking thing that he said he's on a TV show. So he's like streaming his hitchhiking from Florida to LA or something like that. I don't know. I don't know if he's just doing random stuff, if he's just looking for his next thing. But and then wasn't he in um wasn't he having something with his kids or something like that?

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah, he just got booked. He had a situation with his shirty while he was a kid. They both look like they're intoxicated, talking about a weapon, this and that. Police picked him up.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Yeah, so I mean, waving the gun between your kids and gets a gun.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

I don't know if he did that. I don't I don't know if he did that exactly.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Right, because that's what she said. Because she's he said, y'all gonna drive drunk. I'm not letting y'all drive drunk, because she's like, stop, you got a gun with that whole situation's wild.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Right. Like they're both intoxicated. That's the dangerous thing about this whole situation. Like, both parties are very it's it's hard to get the truth out of everybody because that when the cops get there, what are they gonna say? That's why he's out right now.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Like that and even then, I mean, in in terms of the potential danger, right? You're both drunk. He's saying he's preventing her from driving drunk with his kids in the car. That's a potential, but if you did pull out a gun and you waved it while you were intoxicated, that's something they can actually poke you on. You put yourself in a worse situation at that point. But yeah, we gotta stop doing stuff be intoxicated, stop getting arguments, people will be intoxicated. Like that's just not gonna end well.

Jason Derulo, Allegations, And Studio Protocol

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yeah, as soon as you take a sip, you should just be ready to put that down. Yeah, and all like all issues peacefully, because you you don't know like what type of gas you really put in a tank.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Now, how do you feel about this Jason DeRullo situation? He had two sexual assault cases dismissed twice, and now he's saying he won't work with women at all.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

So what I saw was it act it's actually still not over. So he's been fighting for it for two years, but yeah, they ended up moving. So the last one is got dismissed maybe in like California, whatever, and its final stomp is it get getting moved to New York. And then if it gets dismissed there, then it is what it is. I think he made a very important statement. I think when he was like, you know, he's no longer going to be in a room one-on-one with a woman uh while working ever again, and he's always a victim of someone else is there. That's super smart. Y'all, these people, I don't know whether everyone thinks they're different. There are tactics that can be used against you at a high level different tactics if you're a man, different tactics if you're a woman. There are ways people are going to try to get at you and take advantage of you. If you're a person in high status, you need to be looking out for those things. We are currently running into a situation where high-level amount of men are being caught in allegations, scandals, this, this, and this. You can't open that door. You can't afford to open that door. And this is once again if he didn't do it, right? If you didn't do it, take the charges, let that be handled. If you didn't do it, don't even open that door for people to be in a weird situation like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yeah, I think a situation like this should start the standard, right? We gotta start treating the music business like a business, right? So when collabs happen between opposite sexes, guess what? There's security involved, guess what? There's other people involved. Guess what? We're in a public studio. We're in a public studio where people can collab and see how you collab. And let's all right, you don't know how to collab with a woman without getting fucked up. Guess what? You don't collab with women then.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

You don't know more. Oh, we were doing a secret deal and we went to the room and all of this.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

In the opposite way, in the opposite way, right? Like, females. No, you don't hang out with a bunch of guys being the only female there ever. Like, that's just a situation I felt like a lot of women put themselves into. Like, yes, don't do that. Don't do like I tell my sisters, never put yourself in a situation where you're the only female in the room. Ever. Because you never know the type of being you're a real. You never know.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Exactly. And we're not talking about a perfect world situation, we're talking about the reality. The reality is you should take better precautions to keep yourself safe. What should be in the way should things should be is not going to keep you safe from the reality of what things are, it's a little dangerous. So, yes, if these were assaulted, then hopefully he gets booked when it goes to New York. If it wasn't, hope they get it dismissed, and then I hope he takes better precautions in the future. And all the other people got things to lose now or things to lose on their way up. Don't put yourself in this situation.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Also, if he wasn't guilty, it wasn't his fault, and she made a false allegation. She should take some time for it.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Okay. Everyone should get booked for things they falsely claim people for.

Frank Cole’s Pivot And Genre Purity

SPEAKER_01 27:44

You cannot, we gotta stop this shit. Whatever time Bro's gonna get, she gets. No probation, none of that shit.

unknown 27:54

None of that.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Well, how do you feel about the transformation of Cole Methazine to Frank Cole in his song Autumn Leaves?

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Hey, first off, you said Frank Cole when you were messaging me, and I was like, who the fuck is Frank Cole? And I had to YouTube, and I had to go in because I heard I've listened to Kemethazine and I knew Kemethazine swapped, and that's what I was like, Frank Cole, government names. I don't know if he wish he would have kept Kemethazine and made that his name for jazz, but I think this is a great swap. It's a different kind of maturing good stuff about people's music maturing for rap. It's like, hey, when you're coming up, you want to wrap up the guns, the drugs, the bitches, the chains, all of that, right? Go ahead. As you get older, we like to see your raps mature. How's life? How's the business? How's the family? How's the kids? Stuff like that. This to me is a different evolution. Maybe he couldn't see himself continuing that he was no longer in the life. So that he started. And so he just evolved to music that resonated with him more than that just happened to not be rap. I think we have a ton of talented artists who got in a rap because it was the easiest way to get out of their situation. That could maybe see some success in other avenues of music too, outside of that.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Yeah, I think Tyler the Creator is that's the first person I thought of. He is a composer. Like he would have been like a classically trained composer. Like, like it's crazy the way his ear works and how he can. Same thing for Kanye, right? Like if those are easily accessible things within our culture, it wouldn't have started rap and they would have just done that. But um, yeah, I I I I concur to that point. I think Kometazine was just a project to get himself out. I think he's always interested in other things. And there's a lot of artists like that within the community. I mean, look at uh Frank Ocean, look at all these guys like who have different and multi multifaceted talent. Even uh Charles Gabino, I say he's one of the biggest examples of that. I think he started rapping just to see where he could go.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

And then use those connections to act, you know, to do acting to direct, like once again, a lot of the people we see get stuck in, turned up, and spit out of the industry. I think they were just looking for a way out of the situation, and they got stuck in that life. But I think Frank Cole did not lose sight of what his original goal was. I think his music, like that Autumn Leaves, was beautiful. And now, personally, I listen to a lot of stuff like that, music like that, no. But I hope all the success to him and I hope it actually takes him far, and he's just happy with his trend because it's not easy and it's not comfortable. Like a lot of people are nervous, oh the bills, the this and that. You know, is the money gonna stay the same? But for your life and peace of mind, maybe that's what's better for you to swap and move into a different form.

Adam22, Blueface, And Morals For Sale

SPEAKER_01 30:55

Yeah, I wish it we could get back to like the stage of music where there are Puritans, right? Like RB was RB, gospel was gospel, soul was soul, like these link, disco was disco, right? Like everybody's so hybrid. The only person that could be hybrid should be the rappers. And I'm talking about rapping, like they just rap, but use different influences.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

Like Kendrick did, you know, to Pippa Butterfly with the jazz. So like it that I feel like rap is the only genre where it's okay not to be a Puritan, but like we need to have some respect for the Puritan genres, you know, because like jazz needs another renaissance in which people go to, and yeah, it should be as big, everything's actually experienced, you know. Yeah, yeah, because I feel like there's lanes that black talent is clogging hip hop when we could be doing something much different in a lot of different places, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

Yeah, the money, the money's flashy, the deals be getting spit out, and people are just like, this is the like it's still we're doing it, but it's still, you know, send your kids to play ball or to rap. That's that's still being shown as the go-to way to get out.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Well, you could be like Aaron the plumber. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? I don't think you have to say more.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

Yeah, yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

You already know. Get it with his own two hands. Can't you can't not respect a man like that. Now, speaking about men and respect, blue face, Adam 22, talking about his wife. This is crazy, bro. I don't care. I this is like a level of weird and this is weird to lead this shit. You know, like all of it is very I don't know what Adam 22 is doing and how you can exist in the ecosystem over there on the West Coast, and I don't want to know why. Like, there's a lot of shit going on over there.

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Well, I mean, it's just I think this what we're seeing is very normal amongst people who have attached their soul to money.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

It's simple. So I think between Adam and his wife and what they're thinking is kind of like it's weird, it's weird to us.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Oh, you think it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

It's weird for this to be public, but I just think like when people just hold their souls to money, like bro, like they're just their morals are different.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

So she is thinking about the check. He is thinking about the checking crazy.

21 Savage Album Review And Expectations

SPEAKER_00 33:51

I think like this, like we're looking at this like, yo, how could a married couple do this, right? Like, how can this be a norm? How can this be public and be okay? But I think these are people whose money, whose life are all around money, and I think their morals are very different, no matter like like shame's not a factor in this, right? No shame on his part, no shame on her part for asking him for these things, for him wanting to do it. I don't know who he was started. It could have started off with her wanting to be free, it could have started off with him telling her he wants to see it. I don't know. But it's weird that it's public.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Yeah, man. It there's some weird shit going on in Hollyweird, and shit like this is like, all right, I'm glad I left LS. Because like, what's going on? What's in the water? But um, I don't understand like parts like street culture and how Adam 22 like moves, how's that like cool? How do they exist? Well, I mean.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, but I look at him also as a I look at him like I look at Vlad, so I don't necessarily Oh, uh Ivory King. It's just a weird situation, but they're making their money by bringing on drama-filled guests who are usually like B Lister rappers or B Lister people, small time people, not Vlad, but Adam, for the most part, from what I see come on his podcast and stuff, and now his podcast is basically just about bringing black dudes on who his wife may or may not like.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

You know what can we do, man?

SPEAKER_02 35:23

What happened? Man, what happened to the streets?

SPEAKER_01 35:29

How do you feel about the 21 Savage album?

SPEAKER_00 35:34

Um I have to give it more of a listen to it. I already listened to it twice. But I it's like a seven in me. And I just think maybe the content wasn't there for me.

SPEAKER_02 35:48

But yeah, right now it's not any higher than that.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah, bro, I got this one pretty low. I think his other projects were better, more concise, or they at least had more to say. This one felt like his first like canned in, like, this is my image, this is the fill in the blanks. Like, I didn't feel like it was a new addition, a new path, or a new Devination. Like, I thought he was gonna get into like, I thought this shit was gonna be all RB samples. You feel me?

SPEAKER_00 36:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

And he should have done that. I swear, like, he is one of the rappers of this generation where he can do the 2000s methods where just have someone on the hook and he rap and he's good.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Well, you know who he had on the hook. Nah. He doesn't mean that's why with Drake, I was wishing it would have been more of a I don't know. It wasn't. I was hoping that would be like a huge standout song for me, and it wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

Nah, I thought that song was like one, this is this is a good and bad thing, right? Like this came off of a heater of collabs, right? They did the uh what is that song? Uh Her Love Together, right? So they're their collab cap you know, compatibility is really high right now. But like I think Drake has like so many layers to talk about in music right now. And I also think that beat wasn't a metro beat, you know what I'm saying? It's not a part of like the overall album sound, right? So it's kind of jarring when you first hear it, just coming off the album, like sonically.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

True, yeah. I mean, there's that which I thought that he would have been on the metro beat simply off of the fact that, like, they've supposedly kind of patched things up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Well, that was that's so you know, 217 is in the interview because he talks about a lot of this shit, right? But like, as far as the album, I want to get written to get down with the album. I give it like a 7.6. I think it'll be better if it had more of a story. I don't think it's like super special. I don't think it's bad either. I do think there's some standout tracks, but the standout tracks that I thought were being standout tracks weren't standout tracks, which is fine. Fuck it. I like like Drake dropped uh Nokia this year. You can do no wrong. Like, all right, this one didn't go. Nokia came out this year. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Yeah, it's fine. It's fine.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Nokia, what did I miss? Like, alright, he was up there, you you missed one. He's okay. Right. Sooner or later, you'll get you'll get one. Like, you know, I think uh the same thing with Tony Lavage. I wish he was more active. I think that's the only thing that's holding him back as an artist. But like in this interview we're about to get into, as far as like how he feels about rap and stuff like that, I don't think he's like that about rap. Like he got his badge for rap, but he he's not gonna go out of his way to entertain people nor tell his story if whatever it is. I mean, honestly, he came out with straight heat, like all his signals, uh his uh singles that like propped up his career is crazy. Like if you think about how like this straight heat. Yeah, no, he's his first album where it's not like a big ass like record on it, to be honest. Yeah, and maybe he's gonna eat forever. Like they're her lost album with Drake, he's gonna eat up that forever, bro.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

I'm thinking maybe this was just getting him back into the flow of things after, you know. I think his ecosystem of Atlanta's screwed up. So that may have thrown him off. And I think this is just getting back in that spot next year when this stuff is handled and put together, ecosystem's fixed. I think he'll be fine. I think maybe just everybody out of sync.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

How do you feel like uh so Tony Watsavage in the interview he had, he told Drake, that going against Kendrick is a lose-lose situation because he doesn't gain anything from going against them. He said if you go against him and you win, where do you go? Right? Because you're number one. And if you lose, where do you go? Because we've just said it earlier. This is after Drake supposedly lost the beef, he's the number one artist on Apple and top five globally on Spotify. So that advice from Tony One Savage, if Drake would have taken that advice and not responded to like that, how do you think people would have seen him in the hip-hop space? Is it worth it battling every battle, or do you just get your bag?

SPEAKER_00 40:42

Well, we know how it would have been seen because we saw how it was treated at for J. Cole.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah, I mean, J. Cole is like killed in these streets, bro. Not a lot of respect for J. Cole out here.

Thug, Gunna, And Street Codes

SPEAKER_00 40:54

So it and once again, we also realize it does, it has nothing to do with his ability as an artist at all. It's simply people have just lost respect for J. Cole for backing out of the beef. So if Drake, who was the primary person being targeted, himself would have backed out, then yeah, that it would, it would have it probably would have looked worse. So people are at least like, you know what, he fought back, whatever. One of the other things he said in there though, which once again, we were talking about the beef. We're like, yo, I'm not saying Drake's a good person, right? We just don't like all these allegations being thrown around without Kendra providing proof. But savage said that the only reason that Metro started that was because Drake asked Metro to hurry up on a beat to finish it the day after Metro's mom died or something like that. So, like, yeah, we know Drake's a scummy person, okay? Like, that was the whole issue that Metro felt disrespected and wanted to blah blah blah. Drake's a scummy person. Bro was like not treating him like a fucking human. That was the issue. It was like, I guess he was living on a beat, and like Metro's like had just his bomb just died, or his the funeral was like just the day before. And Drake texted him, like, where's this beat at? So, like, but he said Drake's already apologized for all that and all that stuff like that. So he's like, you know. Yeah, possibly the future, see if Metro forgives him. But that was the big that was that that was Metro's involvement.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

But that's the situation that situation don't make too much sense, though, right? For that type of vitro to come out and two albums to come out. Two albums after two albums and all the tweets, you had way more intention underneath the surface about other shit. You just used it.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

And maybe that was just the last straw. Maybe that was the person. Maybe it's the last straw. And yeah, but that's that's what was needed for him to set that on fire, call everybody else up. I was like, let's go make some music. And they make trauma.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Because, like, that's just a conversation of boundaries. Like, hey, I'm working, like I what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

My mom just died, like, yo, like I'm not, everything is on pause right now.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

Right. Like, I would have told everybody in my circle that everything's on pause, too. I would be preventive though. You know what I'm saying? I'd be proactive. Like, especially if I had deadlines, because we don't know if there's a deadline on that song. So there's a lot of factors to that. I didn't think about that. Because if there's a deadline to the song and you're Drake, you're like, yo, what's up?

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Hey.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

But it is a little scummy. How do you feel about the young thug and gunner situation and saying Gunner's the only person that can fix it from Antonio Savage perspective?

SPEAKER_02 43:41

Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 43:47

I think that's circle is just do you think the fans would respect it if like Thug and Gunner or Thug forgave Gunna and then they just messed up?

SPEAKER_01 44:00

I don't know. I think street people would disavow it, but like who cares though? Like the people that majority like consume their music aren't from that background anyway.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

They're not. And or they're faking it.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

Or they're faking it. And that's the crazy thing about like people. Uh it's like anybody I know that actually grew up like that either moved out, right? Or they died there, or they stuck there. Like, it's not like an enjoyable situation. So, like, people like that think this street shit is funny or cool or like some type of prize, man. It's no winners. Young thug gonna dealing with politics that some dude with no formal education. It's that they're laws to him. Like, that that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

No, no, yeah, no, that is fact.

Marlon Wayans, 50 Cent, And Masculinity

SPEAKER_01 44:54

That's a crazy declaration of independence to like like that's crazy, bro. Like these rules be crazy. They make up shit, like you can't do this, you gotta hug the block. Like, what do you mean by that? Like, it's all these different expressions, bro.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

You gotta hug, you gotta, you gotta claim it.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

You also have to hop off of the forge, you can't just leave the porch, hop off the forge. So it it's all these steps required, man.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Yeah, it's it's it's dumb.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Oh, it's no 401k. You get that, you gotta answer questions like this. You don't know shit about shit. People be asking you about shit like this that don't help anything.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Like, I don't know, they'll figure it out.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Or they won't. Yeah, right? That's what I said. How you feel about this Marlon Ways and 50 Cent situation? They're going back and forth. Marlon said there can be bias because of who created it, which is true. 50 Cent has conflated the argument, saying he was with Diddy, your Diddy boy, basically enforcing the law.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

Diddy said um harassed them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

I mean, this is classic. This is where we want masculinity to be in the community with Marlon Wayne's, right? And 50 Cent is what we are actually at in the community as far as masculinity and homophobia and all that shit. So it shows two stark realities, right? Marlon is where we need to be at. 50 Cent is where we're at, and the people siding on those sides are where we're at.

SPEAKER_00 46:44

Pretty much, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Pretty much, bro. Because like 50 Cent, listen, man, love the music, horrible role model. Never was a role model. Get ready to die trying to a certain energy out. Like, bro, I'm telling you, I was walking around, I was a kid, boom. Manny, man.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Hear me out, hear me out, hear me out. I think uniquely, out of all of these, you know, people, these artists, these rappers, these tough guys, whatever. And it's not even like 50 cents saying, like, he got the rest of these guys out there. You know, I'm a gang member, I'm this, this, and this, I wreck this, blah, blah, blah. Fizz like just, yo, I got shot a bunch of times and I lived. I gotta make music about that.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Like, you gotta make music about that.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

That's listen, I respect 50 Cent, like his music.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Yeah.

Streamer Allegations And Parasocial Hazards

SPEAKER_01 47:47

I respect his come-up, but like, I can't respect this. This is really in homophobia. This is really in uh false versions of masculinity that won't progress to culture at all. And you gotta understand that 50 Cent operates for himself because of how he grew up. I think uh I have a theory that drug dealing is the first system to test a black man's character in America and how he will interact with said America, right? So it's a choice in the onset. Will you poison your own people to get somewhere? Yes or no? And then other people, yes or no. You know what I'm saying? So and once those people say yes or no, their behaviors after always show that type of capitalism, right? Well, yeah, once you start once people say once, it's easy to do it again. It's easy. So like we gotta understand the character, like like 50 Cent and people like this, like that we are uh dealing with, especially like me and you, we understand we grew up in a bad area, right? So we interact with people who got that type of capitalism in them, right? So like I understand what 50 Cent is. He's not gonna change much. He survived and he's cleaned it up, but that core is that core. So when he says this is his block, this is his block. When he's when he says Puff is a punk, he's saying something else. So like so, like, it is what it is. And then the other thing about how I do respect Marlon's POV, which is just a POV, not a pain for Diddy. And that's and if you I I feel like if you can't get that from Marlon's standpoint, media literacy needs to become paramount. Before you give a point, you gotta show me a media literacy. Because like this shit's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 49:49

True, true, true, true.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Because he didn't take up for Diddy in any shape or form. He just said, whoever makes it can control how it is seen, which it is true. That is just a fact.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

And that's what we talked about earlier. Like I said, I said, people may not be happy 50s doing it, but if 50 doesn't do it, someone else will. And it's gonna be someone who doesn't look like us. Like you said, it's gonna be a lust or two evils. Someone is going to make this document.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

So lose-lose. Speaking of lose-lose situations, we got Ty Lil, friend of Consonant, big, big top streamer. He made that dance where everybody goes in the circle, all that. He is one of the biggest streamers out here. He's been accused of sexual assault by Jordine Pauline. It was alleged after a stream, she showed she I don't so there's been a police report made. Talil has disavowed it, and that's all we know so far.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

Yeah, it's another situation after this.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

So when I saw the situation, that's my biggest reaction was that before she went to the police, she went on stream. I don't know what I could do with a person that's thinking about their profit margins when an incident like that happens.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah, I once again, these like we can't sit here and be like, hey, a man, just don't be around any women. Women just don't be around any man. Y'all just got being responsible with the situation. Y'all choose to involve yourselves in and engage yourselves in. We are high profile people. People at this point, if you're a guy, you're single. This isn't a perfect world. Same thing we said about the ladies who protect themselves. If you're a guy, you're single. Even if you're not single, you're about women who are drunk or drinking, you might have to remove yourself from that situation. That might sound corny, might sound like a bunch of is it worth even being referenced in an allegation case with the police? No.

Tech Generations, Year-End Hopes, Closing

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Yeah, and I think that's the big thing we gotta put out there for like young men, especially. You are solely in charge of what happens in your actions. You know exactly what you need to do not to get in trouble, right? So if someone is drinking and you can tell they can't handle their fucking liquor, it's time to go.

SPEAKER_00 52:23

I don't want to be the last person in that person's memory before they blocked out and then something happened to them later that night. And I'm like, well, last person I seen was something. Either we're all together, but you're not gonna catch me alone with someone while they're even if I've been drinking too and they're drunk, no. Oh, let's go over here. Yeah, these people gotta come to. I just you avoid that whole situation.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

Bro, I remember I can't I was gonna I was at a party, I don't say college, and I go upstairs, there's a girl in the bathroom throwing up.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

I left. You sent there's some help?

SPEAKER_01 53:01

I said there's a girl in there throwing up, and I left. Turns out, girl, she was fucking ODing in there. Jesus and I'm you know, at the time, not supposed to be drinking at all, so won't be a part of that police report.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

Yeah, yeah, no, you gotta but yeah, but that's the fishing film. I definitely hope that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 53:25

That situation is crazy. I wish she had gone to the police first. I think that's the only thing that's gonna hurt her case, especially when the lawyers get involved, especially when the lawyers get involved, they're gonna use the fuck out of that video against her if it's real, right? Right? And it looks messy, right? The girl was hanging out with this guy, the guy she's talking about in the video has a boyfriend. No, no, not a boyfriend, has a girlfriend. So how are you in this close proximity and all this shit with a guy with a girlfriend? How did that happen? So that's the messy shit there.

SPEAKER_00 54:06

Yeah, but I do once again, if it is true, take these people to jail. If it's not true, you gotta people gotta have one. I can't tell people how to react to shit that happened to them. But you gotta find better ways to release this. Like you said, if this did happen and you were gonna go to the police about this, you don't stream it first, you don't post it online first, you handle it. Get a lawyer, right? Your first shot shouldn't be I gotta tell my fans about this. Like this parasocial stuff with streaming is dangerous and it's weird. Uh, and people really got to get better at that.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

This streaming shit is bad for these kids who don't. So I'm starting to understand how bad streaming is because there's so many kids who don't go outside, bro. Remember, we went outside, like we went outside to have fun. Like, that's how you had to have fun. These kids are living through Kai Sadan, they are living through these guys who go outside and interact and do stuff in real life. They are the avatar for these kids, and it's dangerous, bro.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Parasocialism has been the biggest form of currency. That's why advertising and is well, I'll talk about that's why advertising and marketing has moved to streaming as a major source. Because if I get someone who only streams to 100 people, I probably still have a better chance of getting a product sold through them to a thousand people watching as on YouTube because of the parasocialism and the connection that these people have. When you have consistent live responses to your idol or your celebrity, you get these people are paying these people hundreds, thousands of dollars for them to respond to them for a chat that they sent that's gonna last 30 seconds where they say, Oh, thank you, thank you for donating this money to me. And that's enough. Like they follow these people, they think they're their friends, right? They like to get referred to, and they're like, Hey, chat, chat, and they feel like they're making a special connection with them, they gotta go and get some real people to talk to, and yeah, that's just what's gonna help it.

SPEAKER_01 56:06

Yeah, it's just crazy. I think uh we're in the last era of men who experience every stage of technology. I feel scared for like the dudes that grow up, and it's just like people, people, yeah, like what how do they even interact with other people?

SPEAKER_00 56:26

Their babysitter's gonna be a robot, their teacher's gonna be a robot.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

The future is bleak of a music event episode what is this 42, bro? God damn. You've been putting in the episodes, bro. We about to be close. How many presidents has it been?

SPEAKER_00 56:50

45, 46, 46, 6, 7.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

I've been speaking back on the way. What's your last thoughts, man? How you feel about everything?

SPEAKER_00 57:09

Yeah, it's almost over. I think 2026 is gonna be great. Couple more weeks for that. I think some music's gonna come out Christmas. I think Christmas, the 26th, the Friday after Christmas. I think we're gonna get that next week.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

I don't know, bro. That is next week.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

I think next Saturday, a bunch of good music is gonna drop just after Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 57:30

Bad. We need some Mo Jams. This has been another episode of Music and Men, episode 42. Later on left.