The Life N Times Network
Born from the unexpected friendship of two college freshmen from different worlds, The Life N Times Network has matured into a multifaceted podcast that delves deep into the nuances of modern life. Hosts Natheer Brunson Jr. and Aaron Salada navigate the complexities of their 20s, offering listeners a blend of introspection, humor, and cultural commentary.
From the introspective discussions in "Of Music & Men," where Dre and Natheer dissect contemporary music and its cultural implications, to the candid reflections in episodes like "Healthy Habits," the podcast offers a raw and authentic look into personal growth and societal observations. Whether it's the spirited debates in "The Fight" series or the laid-back vibes of "Smoke Sessions," each episode invites listeners into a space of genuine conversation and shared experiences.
Join the journey. Embrace the chaos. Build character.
The Life N Times Network
Put The Money Where It Gotta Go LNT Ep # 83
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Defiant Artistry is more than a hair studio name. It is a statement about choosing purpose after pressure. In this conversation, I welcome Nadiyah back for her second time on the podcast and sit down with her not just as a host, but as her brother. She shares why the name finally feels complete and what is next as she builds toward a full service salon.
We talk natural hair, braiding, and the real behind the chair life of a working stylist, then get into the business side clients do not always see: pricing, booking fees, deposits, policies, and protecting your time in a culture that always wants a discount. Nadiyah breaks down why she includes washes, how she defines value in a tough economy, and what it means to build a brand that serves women who look like her.
From Philly roots to financial literacy, this episode connects craft, identity, survival, and entrepreneurship through a real conversation between siblings. For stylists, creatives, and Black entrepreneurs trying to grow without losing themselves, this episode offers honest insight on building something with purpose
Sister Catch-Up And The Big Question
SPEAKER_02It's Latin LA, episode 84, Life in Times podcast with my little sister, but she the big one. Definitely big. Back again. Listen, when you hear Defiant Artistry now, what does that name represent to you now? What did it represent to you when you first started? And where do you want it to go?
SPEAKER_00I want, okay, so this is like really, really important to me right now because I'm expanding my business. I'm trying to see what the next level looks like. And so the name of my business is very important. When I started my business in 2018, it was Defiant Beauty Studio. And I named it Defiant because I wanted to be like, I wanted it to be like transparent. I really wanted to be like outgoing or something that was different than what I would normally hear. You would hear like luxury beauty studio, uh pretty beauty studio. I wanted it to be something that just embodied who I am as an outgoing person, as a different person, as a person that thinks out the box. So that's what made me say Defiant. I was sitting in a room with Chunk and my girlfriend. We were just saying a whole bunch of names and we finally came up with Defiant. So that's what made me start at Defiant Beauty Studio. And then I changed to Defiant Artistry, which is more of an intentional name. And the intention name, the intention behind the name is just basically like I do all things. I went to cosmetology school, I know how to do weaves, colors, cuts, braids, anything you could think of, I probably could do it. So I wanted to embody like my fullness of being able to be so good with my hands. And that the word artistry to me is what said that. So I just put it together, Defiant Artistry. Something that when I say it, to me, it sounds finished. It sounds like something that you can sell. It has a ring to it, and it sounds like something that's long-lasting to me. So it's longevity, it's like, you know, the next step, it's like full circle moments. Defiant artistry is like everything to me right now.
Who Defiant Artistry Serves
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. You know, over here at the Life and Times Network, your bro got a business too. So to see my little sister pursue something as doggedly as a business from 2018 to 2026, most businesses only last seven years. Yeah. Let's start there. Yeah. You worked very hard to be where you're at. I'm very proud of you. You know, me and you are both on these journeys as far as like running a business, being creatives, being adults now. You know what I'm saying? It's a big difference from when we were kids. Like I when I look at your business and I look at my business, I think about when we were kids on our way to Penny Packer with the walking cooler, talking about a dollar. Yeah. And now we can probably make thousands. I mean, I'm sure you made thousands. I've made thousands in my business. So it's very good to see the product and to see it so close. Because you know, you are a product of your environment. Proximity is everything. I'm glad that we rubbed off of each other on a good way. Now, for anybody new to you, what services do you specialize in? And what kind of client is that is the Defiant Artistry built for?
SPEAKER_00Okay, that's a great question. So, Defiant Artistry is a hair studio mainly, but I would like it to be a full service salon. Just picturing it fully out, where I offer all beauty services from hair dyeing to cutting, a weave, a color, a wig install. My specialty is breeding. I was gifted in breeding. I actually started breeding hair when I was like five or six. Yes. I grew up in hair salons. My mother and my aunts were are from uptown. If you know anything about Philadelphia, uptown is an area where like appearance is a really, really big thing. We're known for like having really beautiful girls and or guys that show that they have money or whatever. So I do. My mom and her sisters and her cousins, they would get their hair cut and dyed and like done every week or every two weeks. My mother would sometimes get her hair done twice in a week because my mother ran bars and stuff. So she would always change her look. I grew up watching hair, getting my hair done, wanting to do hair, learning what it was. And then when I got older, once I got into high school, I just started doing all my girlfriend's hair, all my friends in the neighborhood, some of my mom's friends' kids' hair, and it just blew up from there. So I think my ideal customer, to get back to the question, my ideal customer or somebody that cares about you got your money's worth, leave defiant artistry feeling like you look beautiful, you feel beautiful. I'm into like really bigging up my clients and working on spirit. I grow hair out or cut it if you don't want it no more. I listen to my clients' heart and what they need. I take care of hair. I think that me having, I got a lot of little sisters, a lot of cousins that's under me. And I'm the oldest girl out of everybody. And I always took care of all the women in my hair family. So it just was second nature for me as a career. And so answering the question, my ideal client or the person that I would love to service is just someone who's looking for total experience when they get their hair done. Somebody that wants to interact with their community and build bonds. Like I got clients that I've been doing since I've started my business. I've watched their kids grow up. What they've watched me grow up, and these women believe in me. I'm proud to say that I got over about 150 clients, and I do them all by myself. I don't work, nobody else works with me. So I've been building it for a minute.
Uptown Lessons On Pressure
SPEAKER_02Fantastic, Nadia. You know, it's always great to hear you growing and showing and doing. We don't get a lot of that where we come from. And I wanted to get into that. You know, we both come from the same neighborhood. We both came from the same cradle. We both from uptown. Now you have the female experience. I have the male experience. But I want to talk about yours, and then I'll talk about mine's. But like, as you're coming up, and I mean, we've been here together through a lot of shit. Absolutely. Right. And as we get through these things, I don't know about you, but me, I'm like, man, he gave me a fire you would not believe. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? The fire and the strength and the intensity and the urgency. And then like even the environment. Like, I seen people do this and that all around. And I challenged it the correct way. How did you challenge?
SPEAKER_00I think that when I grew up, I watched, I had a different experience because I am a girl. I think that I wasn't so much in danger besides like fighting other girls in the neighborhood and stuff like that. I think men face a real danger. But for me, I faced a lot of peer pressure and temptation. Like a lot of situations could have been the last situation for me. And when I say that, meaning like I can interact with something that could change my life forever in an instant, especially being from up there. I think when you come from a certain neighborhood, you got like a prime, I would say our family is like kind of a prominent family up there. Like people know who we are or know who our elders are.
SPEAKER_02So we come back.
SPEAKER_00That was like over. I always been Chrissy's daughter. You know, and I always been Chrissy's oldest daughter. Like, you know, naughty, Chrissy's oldest daughter. That always been like my little ticket outside until I became naughty than one that do hair. But I feel like my experience was like beautiful chaos. I would diagnose it as beautiful chaos. I think that I grew up under like some of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life. Not just like they looks, but like their spirit and how they carry themselves and their energy and how people cling to them. Like I was able to be able, like being a darker skinned girl, coming from a family with so many lighter women, I was able to be cascaded. Like I never realized, you know, being dark skinned was a thing until I left my house and went to school. Because when I was younger, I was chocolate drop and you beautiful girl. And you know what I mean? I never realized it was a big, big thing, you know, in society until I was outside of my walls. And I feel like I'm lucky in a lot of ways with that because I don't I have a real confidence. I was always taught to hold my head up and take care of myself. And I think that through some of the traumas that I did witness and see, I learned exactly what I wasn't gonna allow, not even just like from men, but how I carried myself or the energy that I put out wasn't gonna allow certain things to come my way. And I think that that in a lot of ways, because when I was younger, I would see, like I have girlfriends now. I'm only, I'll be 27 this year that already had already have been married. You know what I mean? I know girls who lived a certain level of life, and I feel like I'm coasting through right on the plane where I'm supposed to be, and I'm grateful for that. I feel like a lot of girls, you know, miss that mark in a lot of ways. I even have some of my closest friends, you know, that had to fight through a lot of adversities because they made wrong decisions. So I was able to see a lot of shit go negative in front of me and decide that that's not what I'm gonna do. You know what I mean? I think I channeled all of my negative ways. So I think I had a hard time in high school. I would fight a lot. I was real angry, not because of my atmosphere, but because of how I was seeing action displayed in my atmosphere. I think that a lot of the women around me are super strong and like outward people. They are not really, they don't have they don't really do a lot of things with grace. You know what I mean? They're not really, I don't have the words for it, but you know, well, they're not passive.
SPEAKER_02They're not passive. I don't know a passive woman in our family, you know what I'm saying? On on the flip side, on my side, like coming up, we're in the same house, we're growing up, and you're right about the dangers, right? Like, when I was coming up, there were so many things like trapdoors, bro. Like, pure trap doors. I tell this story all the time. People on the podcast are probably sick of it. But like ninth grade, a older girl, she said she wanted to have sex with me. I was 14. Dude tried to sell me weed in front of me, or in front of a teacher, and I got into my first fight in the bathroom. Yeah, welcome to life. Yeah. And before all that, I got into a situation at home. Yeah. So like, like it's it's real, right? Like, you have to take these lumps and these bruises and correctly move. I think on both our sides.
SPEAKER_00That's the biggest part. I think I was out, you know, I was outside for a long time. I probably would say, like, my teenage years, I did all this shit. So I was hip to the fact that none of this shit gets you where you want to be in the end, and I just chose a different route. I think that a lot of it is willpower.
SPEAKER_02Willpower is a big thing. People have very weak minds, bro.
SPEAKER_00A lot of it is just willpower for me. And I'm also overly mooked. Like, I let Allah guide my life. I don't allow myself to come out of myself for certain things. I think even my temperament, like how I deal with myself, how I deal with confrontation in my life now, is totally different because I had to learn like jumping and crunching, and you know what I mean? It doesn't keep doing it. It don't always keep me what the results that I want in the end either. Like sometimes I was feeling like I was on an island because I I done fell out with everybody trying to stand on my own personal heels and shit. Like, and some shit be worth standing on, but some shit be stubbornness, some shit be pride, ego, and some shit. Immaturity, too. Immaturity, you know what I mean? You gotta let that shit go. So in my later 20s, I'm learning that. Like, I'm picking up on how I want to live the rest of my life. Like, that's a big thing to me. And back to urgency, I felt like I was watching a lot of the people in my life stay in one place forever. I know people who are in the same exact spot they was in the leaves. Ethic can't get past that. So I realized that I had to put some fire under my own ass and push for my own dreams so that I can have something to offer myself. Like, you know what I mean? We're young black people, but I'm a young black girl. Nobody really in society in America, they're not look checking for me. You know what I mean? They don't fuck with me for real, for real.
SPEAKER_02So I already got a step about me. I'm checking with for you for real. Oh my god, I love you. You got resources.
SPEAKER_00You ate that. You got resources. Oh, I know you're checking for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm checking for you for real. I mean, you know that. We need that.
SPEAKER_00We need that.
SPEAKER_02I I I I know people are gonna be weird. You know what I mean? Yeah, people are gonna be weird and shit. But like, I grew up, there's always gonna be respect. That's why I'm not disrespectful, even in a disrespectful situation. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00But like And we have that. I think our generation is the last of us that have that, you know. Yeah. I would love to speak to that just on a public platform for just for people to catch this note because I really feel this passionately. That it don't kill you to be respectful to an elder. I think in the American community, we gotta bring that back. It's important to say what you mean and mean what you say and respect people that's over you. I think Charise is a good example of that. Charise never disrespects anybody, but she always says what she means.
SPEAKER_02Charlese doesn't look me in the eyes.
SPEAKER_00She's like a boss, like a mob boss. I don't know where we get her from.
SPEAKER_02Charise, Charlice will pull you to the side and let you know.
SPEAKER_00Well, she's like an elder herself, but I really want to say that on a public platform because that's it's important. It's important. We need to have open forum of conversations and just to just another note to young people older African American people think everybody, everything is disrespectful. So you have to eat some shit to just conversation through.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, go ahead, bring that spoon out. I'll be telling people, I'll be telling people you're gonna have to eat some shit.
SPEAKER_00But you will get you will have those ones that you can talk to and get to a good opening because our African American older people have so much knowledge. They really into spirit, they seen so much, they're rich in spirit, and they have something to offer us as young people, uh insight on the past that they lived so that we can make a better future.
SPEAKER_02In America. Thank you. That's that's a lot of things that young bulls don't understand like it off the block. Say you get out of there and you become disenfranchised with your own community because you left. Yeah. You know, I've seen that and I've been through that. Yeah, I was gonna say you feel like that. Sometimes, right? Like sometimes. When I was younger, yeah, now I'm a grown man. I understand. I'm at where I want to be at.
SPEAKER_00I know that's the fuck right.
SPEAKER_02You know what I'm saying? Like I I'm at where I want to be at. And no disrespect to nobody, but like there's been significant things that's happened in Philly that I can't ignore. Like there's a lot of people living in funeral homes, bro. Yeah, your man's got popped over there. How do you still hair? Yeah. I can't stomach it. I can't. Like, like certain blocks, like up and uptown, bro. I can't walk down them anymore, bro. But um, what did growing up there, right? What did it teach you about hustle, survival, and pride, right? How to manage all three of those things.
SPEAKER_00It taught me hustle or don't eat, survive and die or die, show your pride.
SPEAKER_02Or get punk.
SPEAKER_00And people don't understand, like, when I come to these you're gonna have to stand on it and all three of those things. Being being from up top, it's a pride about money. I think that's very important to talk about. I think Philly is a get money city. Let's we all fucked up. But you can't be punked. Let's be clear. That's crazy. But that's a real shit though. But I'm saying that to say, like, just from my neighborhood alone, based on my experience alone, like I think I've had times where I thought less of somebody because they didn't have what I had. So I know what is, I know what that is. You know what I mean? I know that we have uh an air of that where we come from. But I also know that we will also live like that and have some of our lights cut off with our hair done. You know what I mean? People EBT for their kids to eat, but they out eating crab lobster and all that, whatever, whatever's hot food.
Business Boundaries And Client Respect
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, there's a big economic insecurity that goes on in the inner city. I want to talk about what habits, right? We grew up there. How does that translate to business? Because for me, especially in my racket and sales, bro, the sales I see, I'm good selling what I'm selling. You see what I'm saying? Like that hustle, there's nothing. Like people don't understand seen it at the worst.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02We didn't walk past fees.
SPEAKER_00We know how bad they want it. You know what I'm saying? I was to our Eskimo, they can do it, especially up top. They see up top, we got cadence, a mouthpiece. People can talk very, very, very well. I get that from I picked that up from my mother. I feel like I'm very good with talking to people, like just interacting, period. People draw themselves to me based on how I think that it translates in my business in a lot of ways. I'm not interested in doing business with women my age. I think a lot of women my age are not as serious as they should be. It is a very big group of women my age, fighting and striving very hard. But I will say that it took them isolating themselves from certain things and pushing towards what they feel. It's very hard to do business with people in the in the in our neighborhood because they're of a certain mindset. Like, oh, I know you. You I should get it for the low. I know the lookout. Yeah, we got the lookout thing. And that's that lookout shit crazy, bro. Big uptown, like yeah, you know that. Like, you know what else we have real big? Credit. I pay you back.
SPEAKER_02Yo, that's how every situation pop off.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes. Because at a certain point we learned that early, like a relationship on the street or just a friendship has nothing to do with you sitting down in my chair and receiving a service from me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Once I learned it to separate that, I was able to do business much better because I was taking it serious from the rip. I always felt like I was running a certain level of business. So I wanted to treat it like that and treat my clients like that. And when I received, like I had women, people that I know, dispute charges, like like they didn't come get their hair done from me. And the company has the bank of snatch the money back from me. I got to dispute it, improve, and send pictures of this person getting their hair done and all of this crazy stuff. And it's supposed to be my family. So I would say in business, it makes me super cautious. It makes me want to do, push a lot of things on my own and do as much as I can on my own before I reach out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I'm on that too.
SPEAKER_00I want to reach out to people that I can rely on, and that's hard to find.
SPEAKER_02So that's where a big thing is, right? When you come from a place where there is hard, it's so hard to build true relationships when you have them, you have to nurture them. So I think a big thing is about interconnecting, you know, people our age and having civil conversations. Oh, absolutely. Which habits did you have to unlearn to level up?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I would say outward is the biggest one for me. I thought or that I was being myself by being rude and nasty to people. And a lot of times that shit was not, you get more bees with honey and flies with shit. Yeah, I had to learn that I would say the hard way in a lot of situations because I've lost people, I've lost friends, I've lost opportunities because I would not to certain things, you know what I mean? And I'm I'm using quotations because is it really conforming or is it being compromising and being a part of a uh a bigger thing? You know what I mean? Sometimes it took a long time for me to get out of my own way.
SPEAKER_02There's a lot that happens, especially in our neighborhood and kids like us, right? Like when I first went to school, I didn't know what a bank account was and know how to manage my life in school. I had to learn all that shit on the fly, right? We're very we we we are very mature in violence, not mature in anything that builds us up as people.
SPEAKER_00Well, I would say that would be accurate for a man's description because all those things, since I was like six or seven. I've been well, not bank account thing, but like washing clothes, but like managing I'm talking about financial literacy at this point. Yeah, I would say that those are things.
SPEAKER_02That's the larger point.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I agree. I think those things that I had to pick up on my own as I went along because I think that our parents didn't live in that time or wasn't of that time. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Well, like, and not to talk down on anybody, but like a lot of people are in survival mode, right? Yep. So like survival mode is real. Like, yes, I bro, it took me 10 years to like get here. You know what I'm saying? Like, when I think about it, if I went back in time and I talked to myself at 15, you'd be like, fuck out of here, dog. You know what I'm saying? Like we thought we knew it all. We thought we knew it all, right? So like perspective is everything and it is a blessing as well.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes.
SPEAKER_02Now, your page and your focus, right, is a lot of braids and natural hair. Was that a conscious decision to make that lane? Far as like black women and black beauty and how we should express ourselves. I wouldn't say how we should, but a certain level of honorship in that look. Because a lot of people are jumping to this and that, like. We don't want to have our own sauce.
SPEAKER_00So I would say, yeah. I would say, especially for natural hair care. I don't care if you braid your hair and oil it and put a wig over top of it. Braid it and oil it. You have to take care of what comes out your scalp. It is ours. It comes from us. It's it's it's in some ways the essence of our life. So, you know, points of our hair. I know that we like to get like held up in like people snatching our stuff or we snatching from other people. But I think like hair is like art in a way. You do your hair about the way that you feel. If they're being earnest about it, that's all, that's all it really was for me. Like I wanted to have my shop full of women that look like me. So I wanted to offer service that would bring them in.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. Now, you also offer hair and wash included, right? You know, I'm online all the time. I I gotta pay for stuff. I got a girl, I'm looking at stuff I gotta pay for. They ain't offering that shit. What's going on?
SPEAKER_00In the hair community right now, it's a big debate on if washes should be provided or not, or if the service is this or that. I come from doing hair in the kitchen where they wash your hair next to some dishes. You need to wash your client's hair. Legally, in the state of Pennsylvania, you're supposed to wash a client's hair before you start their hair process, just to know that you started on a fresh base and you're not nothing that they had in their hair before will react to the things that you have be, and that's legal. That comes from hair school. I learned that getting my license. I think that that's what put sets me aside from a lot of people. They know they can come and get anything done. You know what I mean? I don't know how to do everything, but I'm gonna figure it out. You know what I mean? I have the talent of doing hair, I can do all textures. I also think that it's important to say that clients are coming to us with their hard-earned money. People, it's tight right now, so tight right now, and we offer a service, and people is getting their extra coins together and talking a little sweep to their man and get an extra$10 there to get their money together to come see you. You should be giving them all you. I mean, that's why I don't feel like you should be at the hair store buying 18 packs of braiding hair when you already gonna come pay me$300 to get it done.
SPEAKER_02I remember going to the store getting that shit.
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean? God damn, you can't at least buy the braiding hair and have it done for it.
SPEAKER_02I feel you you know, you are eight years in. Obviously, you've been through ups and downs, right? What is your biggest lesson about booking, rules, posits, and protecting your time?
Put The Money Where It Goes
SPEAKER_00Policy, policy. For you, young girl that's starting out. Sit down with yourself and build some parameters. How do you want this thing to work? Do you want people to come in right behind each other or do you want to increment in between? You need to set that time up for yourself. You need to be clear with communication with your clients from the rip. This is what it's gonna be. This is the day that you're coming, this is the time that you're coming, and this is your balance. I need this for you to come sit in my chair. And when it comes down to booking fees, I I would say honor that. If you say$25 is my booking fee, my booking fee is$25. You send me$25, I provide wash and you get your hair done. I put$10 of that booking fee to your balance and keep$15 for myself. That's to hold your spot and to cover some shampoo down the road or some brain hair down the road. That's how I keep my inventory rolling for young women that's trying to provide hair. That's how you keep inventory rolling. And that guarantees somebody to give a spot who gets a spot with you will come get their hair done because they paid their money. You know what I mean? I feel like being a woman of your word and honoring your own policy, create a policy that you can honor. You know what I mean? That's the big thing.
SPEAKER_02Now, as your brother, and I'm interviewing you, I wanted to know like some things about your business and how we've interacted. How's that shaped you? You know, like I know I'm not gonna take credit for anything you do. Hopefully, I had some impact.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I would say that I watched you be steadfast with Life and Times and like really pushing it and making it something that it's your belief that this is something that you have a talent in, and so you're pushing it. I find that to be the most inspiring thing of all. I think that creating finished product is another thing that I see from you a lot. A lot of people say I have a podcast, I have a podcast, but you can't hear it nowhere. You can't find it nowhere. You push out episodes, you're consistent. People know you for doing podcasting. And I think that that speaks volumes to like just being a hard worker and being somebody that makes a plan and sticks to it. And I would like to be like that. So I wouldn't say I take that from you.
SPEAKER_02Listen, how about this? I take a lot from you. Your business started in 2018. Yeah. I started in 2021. Spirit. All right, I'm a big brother, but I learned a little something. So I appreciate you. Seriously. I've been to your shop, I've worked with you, I've gotten you a client or two, and I think we do good business together. Absolutely. So as a family and at you know, mindset and as black people with businesses, we need this to be the continuous thread. One thing feeds the other. That's why I don't have no problems collaborating or working with you. Your blood, your family, and you respect what's going on both ways. And I you know, just to give you some honor and love, man, I really, really, really respect what you have come through, especially the time where I wasn't home. Yeah. And I was still dealing with my own things. Yeah. I still have some regrets on that end. But I want to commend you on where you're at. Because it was without JR being on top of you, JR doing this and that. And you know I did a lot of that when it was coming up, so you got used to it. But here's the thing your character was revealed, and it was magnificent. Nah. I love you so much.
SPEAKER_00JR, that goes a long way. You never said that ever in your life, and that was the thank you. I saved it for the pod, man.
SPEAKER_02Give a little love on the family, brother. Like, seriously, like this thing, this little thing of ours, what we have in our family and our generation, as far as us our age, right now.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Fucking with each holding it.
SPEAKER_02Because the next couple stages, when we the old heads, our kids shouldn't be beefing.
SPEAKER_00No bullshit.
SPEAKER_02It's very this is our second time doing this.
SPEAKER_00It is.
SPEAKER_02Right? How do you feel this that episode till now? I was like three years ago.
SPEAKER_00I feel good. I feel grown. The biggest thing about me this year is being fully grown. I feel like I'm totally out of my adolescence. I don't know if that resonates with anybody else.
SPEAKER_02You got me there for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I feel like I'm totally out of my adolescence. Like, I feel like I'm an adult woman and I have something to offer the world. I feel like I gotta work hard to solidify myself for just my own wants and needs. You know what I mean? But as far as that thing that we strive for, success or whatever, I feel like I've reached it. We came from nothing. And we have we get up every day with food in our refrigerators with our lights on, our bills is paid, I got a good job and a career. You know what I mean? Something that I'm working hard towards, and I'm grateful for that alone. For everything. I think I worked hard to pay homage to the hard work that my mom did when I was a kid, and to the work that my dad couldn't see because he's not here anymore.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00That's the biggest drive point in my life. So I just try to stay fit steadfast on this path of just reaching a place of like financial security and being somebody that people that's under than me can pull from. Yeah. That's a big part of what I feel like my purpose is. So since then, I feel whole. I feel like I picked put the pieces in places, and I'm on the way to the thing that it'll be. Whatever the finished product is, I'm on my way to that.
SPEAKER_02So, like, once you get past, because man, I was in pieces for a very long time. Yes. And I was by myself, right? And I want to thank my girl. I want to thank all my friends that I made in college. Yeah, it took till 25. And I was, you know, I was in and out, but it wasn't good enough. I always feel like that to myself. But like, it took till 25 for me to sit down with myself and stop the bullshit. Yeah. Like I was doing, you know, I was working, I was making money, da-da-da. But think you gotta save your fucking money.
SPEAKER_00How about you gotta pay your bills first before you buy your shit?
SPEAKER_02But you gotta pay your bills first before you buy shit.
SPEAKER_00I had to learn it. Like, but I'm crazy. We I'm proud of myself because I learned it on my own. I want to say out loud for for young girls too. You we learning this shit on our own. Nobody's sitting down with us and saying, okay, you got$500, put it on your bills. Nobody's saying that to you. You have to say it to your fucking self. You have to be the person to work hard for your couple dollars and put it where it's supposed to go. The whole motivation and my little mantra for this year is put the money where it gotta go. Matter of fact, name the S P sole.
SPEAKER_02Put the money where it gotta go.
SPEAKER_00That's the main that's the main focus, bro. Get your couple dollars, work hard and put it. Hard.
SPEAKER_02Put the money where it gotta go. I I do that shit before I do anything.
SPEAKER_00And if it works for me, Nate, I've I feel like I've I've been living a smoother life.
SPEAKER_02It's way smoother.
SPEAKER_00Am I the asshole not putting the money where it needs to go? No, literally, though.
SPEAKER_02Like, so that was lit. I was like, yo, I'll find a way to pay the rent, dah.
SPEAKER_00Yes. That's me.
SPEAKER_02You know what I'm saying? Like, nah, no, no. Like, my girl, she's like, Man, you're so good with money. And this, I was not like that before. You know, I feel like as a man, once you have true responsibility outside your family, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You either You don't, yeah. Especially as African American people, we don't have room to like be laxed about where we stand as people. Are we gonna be alright? How are we gonna pay our bills and all that? You need to know. Nobody can take care of you, and you can't even live off the fucking system no more. You can't do it.
Marketing That Stays Authentic
SPEAKER_02People don't understand pressure. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Pressure. Like, I remember I used to go to write aid with the rent in my pocket. And mommy didn't want to make that walk. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, like, pressure, get there, get back, make sure that happens. Nobody can take that from you. Yeah. Like, you gotta be on that. Like, it's a pressure cooker that creates people like us. It creates the defiant artistry, it creates the Life and Times Network. Now, we talk about our businesses. Let's talk about marketing. What works, what doesn't?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Where have you wasted bread at? Because I've wasted bread places. What do people not understand? Okay, I'll be on your side in your industry.
SPEAKER_00So I do cosmetology. The big thing right now is tutorial, tutorial, tutorial. And I'm like a girl that's like, I want to take a picture of the hair and show it to you. And guess what? I do hair. Come see me. You know what I mean? My personal, I'm not really like turn the camera on and then I come alive type of person. I'm like a real person, like, you know, that has real personality. And I don't always have that switch. I commend the girls who do it because their views go up and they're booking and they're doing all of that. But I don't really feel like that's my lane. For me, I think my lane is authenticity and really being able to do hair. And I think that people know me for that. You know what I mean? And I think that marketing is key. Word of mouth is a real thing. You need to have business cards, big. That's the best investment you can have because you want to be out and you want to say, I do hair, and you want to be like, hun, this is my information. You know what I mean? I think that hands-on is the best thing for hair, especially when you're in this city, and it will grow. When you're known for pushing out good work and having good business, it will grow. I do my own flyers, my videos, I edit them myself, I record them myself, I do all that stuff myself. Because right now, I just want to put my name on it and have pride in the fact that I worked hard in every aspect to make Defiant Artistry what it is. I think having a team will come. But when you're starting off small, being able to do for self is very important. It's important to be self-reliant to run your business so that it'll work. You know what I mean? So that you have a product to sell once you get bigger. But yeah, I think the focus right now is having the product and having a really good product. So that's what I'm working on. Having like a really good product, offering something that's really good and building that.
SPEAKER_02When you're starting like we are, right? Because I'm in a position, I'm like three years under you though. Initially, I was so collaborative, and I'm still collaborative, I still work with people. Understand what you're saying. You have to be blue collar with your business because at the end of the day, it's your business.
SPEAKER_00And the truth is, nobody will run your business the way you run your business, nobody will treat it the way you treat it. The work ethic will ever be the same because it's gonna dip off. Yeah, yeah, it's not theirs. You know what I mean? And it you will find a rarity where you find a partner where somebody is working just as hard as you to meet this common goal, which is this business. But at the forefront of it all, it's an idea that you nurture like a child. It's something that's yours, that's your own. And I know what the fire artistry needs. I would have to teach you what the fire artistry needs. And for me, I don't think that I've I'm I've reached that stage in business yet. And I like to be realistic about it because I don't want to play with the product that I have. It's important to me.
SPEAKER_02You got to know yourself and what you can do. People don't know their capacity or their thresholds ever and multitudes of things. You know, when you take on these things and all these undertakings, you're doing a business, you're making content, you're doing hair, you're you're offering services, you're working your other job. You have to manage what you can manage.
SPEAKER_00And I also think that is a great segue into time management with especially offers offering a service. Be true to your time. You know what I mean? If it takes you around seven hours to complete a style, I want you to tell her it takes seven hours so she can make the commitment to spend that time with you to get that complete look. You know what I mean? I think a lot of young women now that starting out doing hair is running into that too. You put on your book and website that it may take you two hours, but it ended up taking you four hours, and now it's you backed up. You got girls sitting on top of each other and your salon is backed up. I've never had clients run into each other, dear, and I'm grateful for that. Not even in a lot of people don't do good business, bro.
SPEAKER_02Like I'm in sales, people don't do good business, man.
SPEAKER_00I'm telling you. That's the best part.
SPEAKER_02That's the best part. You gotta do good business.
Advice For Kids In Survival Mode
SPEAKER_00You have to be able to do good business. You have to be able to have a good standing, a good name. People need to make it. Everything, especially when you're selling a product or offering services. I you need to be known for the thing that you do. You know what I mean? And I want to also segue into having a niche when you do cosmetology. We are in the time of YouTube hairstylists and TikTok braiders. So everybody does hair. Get you a niche, get something that you do better than anybody or just as good as anybody else. Because it's room for all of us to eat. It's a million women and a million heads, so everybody can do hair. I like to say that also. So we don't need to be in competition. I will I big up styluses that do weaves and wigs and even other styluses that breed because I can't braid everybody here in Philly. It's just me. You know what I mean? But I think that having a niche, my niche is braiding. I learned how to braid when I was six years old. I can braid my ass off, and I can braid all day long. That is my talent. I am able to do four or five heads in one day and not break a sweat. I've done 10 heads, I've done 11 heads, I've done heads on a large scale doing like uh hair competition and one braiding. And the other girls did wigs and weaves, and I did braids, and I was offered a job at Ulta Beauty when I was in hair school. So I know what I'm talking about. You if you have a niche and you know how to do that really well, people will pay you for that service alone. I have girls that get their weaves done here, they hair, they cuts here, they colors here, but they only get their hair braided by me. Have a niche.
SPEAKER_02Now, for two black entrepreneurs like ourselves, what is the advice we could give out? You know, I'll let you go first. This is your episode. You know, I'm not gonna be defiant with Miss Defiant. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. My biggest advice, and I will always talk to my sisters, my young wet girls, my babies. I would tell y'all to push your dreams. If you have a product, a thing that you do well, a talent, whether you paint, sing, do hair, make jewelry, whatever it is, I urge you to push that thing. Work hard toward towards it, master it, and do good business. Be known for the thing that you're talented at doing and not anything else. Work hard and I will also say put the money where it gotta go. You get paid from your jewelry, get your inventory right so you're ready for your next orders or your next clients. I will also say, take care of yourselves and keep your minds on the right track. Keep your minds into things that work for you, that make you a better person. And find God and put them first, whatever they may look like for you.
SPEAKER_02I concur on a lot of points. I say to all people, especially coming from our backgrounds, you're gonna have to make a decision within yourself. Not gonna be an outside source giving you this. Nobody's gonna tell you how to be an adult, how to start a business, how to get started. We are coming from a place of survival. This is only for the kids that are coming out the trenches. You're coming from middle class and upper class, my biggest advice to you is act like it. You don't have to prove nothing, bro. I know I know so many people who tried to prove something and ended up dead, buried, or in jail. If you come from a good neighborhood or a good place, bro, that's the best way to start. Yeah. Now, if you're coming from where we come from and your folks aren't on point or your folks are in survival mode, they can't even help you. You know what I'm saying? They can only teach you how to survive, right? Like my some of my earliest memories was like people teaching me how to hurt somebody else, right? That's what we were dealing with. Yeah. That was a threat. That was how they were trying to love me. That's not no knock on on them. But once you okay, I'm not gonna be in survival mode anymore. I do not like this. This chain of events keeps happening. I feel like I'm going to do it too. Or I'm close to it, right? If if you're a young boy, you got your first charge, acknowledge it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Don't go back and hang out with these bulls. They don't care. Yeah. They can't care because they're in survival mode. They don't even know how to care. You know, I had to work on my uh civility. Yeah. The way I view myself, right? Like, even though we run these businesses, you have these goals, you have these dreams, don't turn into a workhorse. That's that's the only thing you could do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm working on that this year, like just finding a medium in working hard and also living my life. I feel like I spend a lot of of my 20s working, you know what I mean, and not doing or seeing or being a part of. And this year, I'm definitely going to thrust myself into that. I definit that's definitely good advice. Always work, always take care of business, but have some time for yourself. That's why I tell the girls that take care of their minds. You can't be anything if you're not mentally stable. And we live in a time of mental illness. We have things that we come across every day that can get PTSD, okay?
SPEAKER_02Hey, bro, that's and I ain't talking about anybody getting pop.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, past that.
SPEAKER_02Past that, bro. Fuck the news. Yeah. When we go outside, when we was young bulls, there were fiends. Yeah. I didn't see somebody with the syringe hanging out their arm on my way to Pini Pack, dog. So, like, if you're starting off of that way and you're being like a lot of that stuff is to numb you so you can't be a person. Yeah. Right? Like, I think kids need to understand they call it the projects for a reason. This is not our creation. We didn't create the hood. We didn't create whatever. We didn't we didn't do this, right? And we're still coming, like, they flooded our neighborhoods with crack for a reason. Do you know what crack does to a person, dog? Absolutely. It kills you. Literally. It kills you. And if it don't kill you physically, it'll kill you emotionally and mentally. And then your young boy come up, he a crack baby, he sells crack. Yeah. Boom. There's loops and cycles that we have to acknowledge and understand. I really hope it's this is for the conscious kids in these environments, right?
SPEAKER_00Forward thinking. Kids that are looking to that sees what's going on around them and looking to get out of it. Because we have a lot of kids that see their environment and glorify it because they feel like they have no other way.
Family Love And Where To Find Her
SPEAKER_02But I remember when I should say that shit was like it was a badge of honor. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Are you like, yo, somebody just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody around here just got you know what I'm saying? Like we were talking. About it like it was cool, like it was sports. Absolutely. So, like, I think humanize yourself. That's my biggest advice for any person of any color in a low-income area dealing with violence and strife. You are a human being. It's not gonna always be this bad. You could get out of it. Yeah, you got any last words? How do you feel about everything? Plug everything.
SPEAKER_00Right, tell everybody my stuff, right? Yes, ma'am. I'm the one I want to thank life and times and my big brother JR for this episode. You are the best, Nate. You as well. I love you. I'm glad that we spending time and we've been talking and you know, just being brother and sister. I feel like our lives are so busy, but we've been making time for each other more, and that's that's like that means a lot to me. I'm happy that the episode is finally getting done. I feel like I feel like horrible for that because I really you're my sister, so you get all the passes, man.
SPEAKER_02Life and Times, episode 83. This is gonna be edited by Big Charlie, not the little one. This is a family business.
SPEAKER_00It is a family business. Okay, that was her in the back. Okay, and I also want to link me in. You can find me on TikTok and Instagram at the Fiant Artistry. And I always have a sub. And if you come to me and you tell me up front, I will work with you. I love taking care of babies. I have special needs clients, I have clients that I gotta visit at their house, service my community. I'm here to do hair for everybody. And I will be hopefully dropping some hair care products. So look out for that for me later this year. And thank you again, Life of Tonks.
SPEAKER_02But listen, Life of Tonks Network, family over everything tap in episode 83.