Episode #8: Being an Educator in the Industry

In this episode of The Chair-apist, I interview Jackie Epperson, an educator for L'Oreal and the owner of Chroma Salon. We talk about what it takes to be an educator and the pros and cons of becoming an educator. Jackie shares her insights on what makes a successful educator and how to manage the challenges that come with the job. This episode is a must-listen for anyone considering a career in education! 

Jackie Epperson is the owner of Chroma Salon in Tacoma, Washington. She is a L'Oreal Professionnel Artist and a Certified Balayage Artist. Jackie teaches color, balayage and styling to salons all over the nation and loves sharing her passion and knowledge with others in the industry. 

Transcript

Cameron 
Hello Jackie, thank you for coming on another episode of the Chair-apist 

Jackie 
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. 

Cameron 
I'm your I'm your hype girl. Jackie is an educator for L'Oreal. Correct? 

Jackie 
Yes, yes. 

Cameron 
Yeah, she - you specialize in Balayage. 

Jackie 
I do, but really all things creative color Balayage as just has been, you know, the hot trend. 

Cameron 
I bet the trending and everybody like doesn't know how to pronounce it bolje. 

Jackie 
By Alaj can I have that buj? 

Cameron 
But we know it's Balayage. We got that. And then you also own a salon. 

Jackie 
I do I do. I own Chroma salon in Tacoma, WA. We just celebrated 11 years. 

Cameron 
Oh, my gosh. Congratulations! That's huge. 

Jackie 
So yes, thank you yeah. 

Cameron 
Wow, it's been 11 years. 

Jackie 
It’s been 11 years, yep. 

Cameron 
You’re making me feel old. 

Jackie 
I... It .. imakes me feel old 'cause you know I used to be young and the young girl that's opened a salon and nobody says that anymore. 

Cameron 
Now we're the old ladies that own a salon. 

Jackie 
Yeah, trying to figure out what to wear so we look cool. 

Cameron 
I was actually just telling Jackie about being in a class today, thinking that I was wearing my trendy Billabong shirt. My little crop top and I was like I don't know if I can pull this off anymore, but hey, didn't get any negative feedback, so we're good. 

Jackie 
No, it's good. I know we used to laugh growing up. You'd be like why doesn't my mom just dress cool like just see what's cool and then just wear hat's cool, yeah? 

Cameron 
So, you are educating you own a salon. You first and foremost, you have children and a family. 

Jackie 
I have children and a family. I have two boys. Yep, and a husband and animals and all the things so you know, a normal good old crazy house life and then. 

Cameron 
How do you balance all that? How do you do that? 

Jackie 
Well, first of all, anybody who's seeking balance it's a lie. It's a false idea that somehow, you'll maintain balance in your life, right? I think that we go through a lot of seasons, right? You have seasons of your life where things ebb and flow and I think right now I'm just trying to do what is best at the moment, you know. And we have gears literally busy behind the chair and we have years where we kind of slow down behind the chair and do other things and so, but that seeking of balance, I've learned is an idea that you'll never reach. 

Cameron 
There's something wrong with me that all these people on Instagram are saying how they live this balanced life? Or are they just saying that for Instagram? 

Jackie 
Yeah. 

Cameron 
I know. 

Jackie 
Is a false idea. There is no such thing as balance. Last year I educated a lot. I taught 33 classes and got on an airplane 27 times. Wow, yeah, yeah and all 27 were east of the Mississippi. 

Cameron 
And you know anybody who's listening might not understand the gravity of how many classes that is, or the weight of it you know, but it really is. There are 12 months in a year.  

Jackie 
Do the Math.  

Cameron 
Do the math. Right, exactly. 

Jackie 
But you know, we were coming off. Of COVID and we were coming off of no travel. You know, we were used to doing what we do and going out and teaching and that all came screeching to a halt and we sat at home, and we didn't have jobs for some of us for a while, and then so when they started opening back up, I said yes to everything and then I lived with the consequences of saying yes to everything. 

Cameron 
So that was my New Year's resolution, saying no to more things. To maybe create a little more balance. 

Jackie 
Or the false idea of. 

Cameron 
But sounds like you're doing that so that's good, that's good. 

Jackie 
It yeah, so this year definitely, yeah. Not taking a step back - I'm still out educating and doing all the things but definitely being a little more selective in the amount of travel that I'm doing. 

Cameron 
That's awesome, yeah.  

So, how did you get into education? Because really, I wanted you to come on here 'cause I want. I've been hearing more and more in my classes and just out in the industry field that. How do I become an educator or how does that work? How does that fit into my life? You know what? Here's all the information, essentially... 

We're going to give you all the information on what it's like to be an educator. 

Jackie 
Right. The good and the bad. For me it was a very interesting kind of unplanned adventure. I guess, uh, I think there's a lot of ways to become an educator, right, and especially with social media, the way it is now. But for me, when I opened my salon.  

Right after that, I was approached by a sales rep actually, who said, hey, you use our brand and I think you'd be a really good mix for this, and they just so happen to have this educator try out. You should go do it. You should go do it and I didn't really know much about it and so I asked some questions and obviously I had been to education within our company and, the hair color line had just launched, so there was a lot of education around that, so I was kind of seeing what was happening and I just kind of went to this audition, completely blind and with zero preparation. Having no idea what was happening. And at the time their education started out a little different, so essentially you auditioned. 

If they felt like you were a good match then you would go out and you'd shadow other educators, right? And so, I basically, after I found out like yes, we think you're a good match, I went out and shadowed a bunch.  

We had two then big education things a year that you went to that were, you know, travel and that you paid for out of pocket. 

Like all of this was free at this time. Like everything I was doing at this moment I was doing it for free or paying out of pocket to go to these things. 

Cameron  
When we say it's a passion, it is truly a passion because you were paying for. 

Jackie 
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, anybody who chooses to get into education 'cause they think it's going to make them a lot of money. 

Not the right reasons, right? Just education is definitely because that's what you want to do. But the more that I got out there and shadowed other artists and the more I got to see what was it was like the more I was like, ooh, that I really liked this like we know how much we love working behind the chair. 

What you get out of that. You get to focus on a client, give them something beautiful, but this is like a completely different way to support our industry. 'cause I got to support other stylists and then watch them be successful and that was really exciting and getting to go out and meet other things and then you. 

Getting to like, you know, sprinkle in shows and sprinkle in a little bit of that. Like you know, a little bit of Bougie-ness that happens in some of those moments. You think it's old that I think we go into education thinking that all education is these, like, you know, these big shows and these big things. 

And I used to joke with my husband like I know I've made it when I get to do her on stage and their dancers behind me. 

Cameron 
Now you've made it when somebody was like you inspired me so big time in your last class. That's when you've really made it. But it's pretty fun to have the dancers and be on stage. 

Jackie 
I still have never had dancers, so I think that that might just be a loss a lost hope, but. 

Cameron 
I mean, in your next show I'll come dance. 

Jackie 
Really awkward dancing. That sounds perfect. 

Cameron 
Just here to be her hype girl. 

Jackie 
But you know, as you as you do it, just like you know you. You kind of figure out that. You're right. It's the messages you get a text or an e-mail or DM or whatever that says I just did what you told me to do. Or I took a technique that you taught, or I learned, you know, I used a different, you know, mixing or whatever it was. And they were successful with it, and they want to show you. And it made them money. Or it made them faster or it made them more confident or whatever. 

That's it. That's why we do it. 

Cameron 
Totally 

Jackie 
As you and I were talking earlier, you know the first for me, the first five years you make pennies. Pennies. 

Cameron 
You definitely pay your dues. 

Jackie 
When you prepare for what you do behind the chair, right? 

Cameron 
No, absolutely. 

Jackie 
We all know what we do behind the chair in a day. Your first long time of education. You're like, really? 

Cameron 
Well, this is fun, I'm getting away from behind the chair. It's something different, I'm inspiring... I mean, you are really. It is really passion; you know the people who are the higher ups in the company who travel for a living. 

So, I'm going to be interviewing Sarah Lund, from Kevin Murphy who she's on board with them 100% master, you know, traveling around and that's all she does she's no longer... She'll take a few clients here and there, but she's no longer behind the chair and that's a whole different ball wax. 

Like you, you can leave behind the chair if you don't want to do it anymore and go do something like that. 

Jackie 
Oh yeah. 

Cameron 
Or you can a balance I air quote and do behind the chair. 

Jackie 
And running around and all the things, yeah. 

Cameron 
Running around and then also doing education. But it is nice 'cause you get to go. You visit salons, you get new ideas on like Oh my gosh, they organize their color so cool. I'm gonna go back and do my salon like that or you meet somebody that you're just like I think you should be in education. Or you just meet that person that you inspire like you said, that's DM 'ing you or texting you and saying you changed the way I balayage 

I watched your videos when you were starting to do some of those little fun like how you choose, and I watched one of them like over Oh my gosh. Look how she gets the consistency. And you were talking...I was like I gotta try that. So, you inspired me too. 

Jackie 
Oh, that's so sweet. 

I mean, that's that was. That's the fun. Right, I mean we do we get to go all over the place and meet all these different people.  

And it's really fun when you get to meet them again over and over. Or they come to multiple classes, or you get invited back into their space. 

Cameron 
It sounds so nice. 

Jackie 
And you get to start to build those relationships, but also going all over the place, you learn really quickly like we are all doing what we do, you know. And it might vary slightly from here to there or wherever, but for the most part, like everybody has the same struggles and everybody has the same wins and we're all just trying to like to support each other. So, it's a really, really big community that I think is all kind of clapping for each other right now, especially right now. 

Cameron 
Isn’t that nice? I'd love that because you know when I first got into her, which I don't know feels like 20 years ago now I think I am going on a long time. I won't say how many years.  

Jackie 
I'm closer to 20 than not, how about that? 

Cameron 
That’s what we'll say. Perfect. There was a lot of competition and I touched on this and the toxicity within the salon. 

There's a lot of competition like, oh, don't go see them or don't go do this or don't leave me, but I am constantly like go to Chroma. 

Go over to the Beach House. Go to Willow. Go to go Foxfire - like I'm sending people out because I'm so incredibly busy and I know that you know new stylists that need new people. I'm just like hey check this person out there taking new clients. 

Not that I'm not, 'cause I don't want to shoot myself in the foot, but it's so nice to see us all working together and sending people other places and you know, like my clients move, get online. Hey, who lives here? It's just so nice to have that community without being like, oh, I better find one of my friends because I don't want them to go to this person. 

Jackie 
Right? 

Cameron 
It's not like that anymore and I love that. 

Jackie 
It's really not, I mean, I just taught a Class a month, a little over a month ago in a salon that's in University Place, which for me is what 15-20 minutes, right? We essentially have the same clientele location base. 

And I'm just there just talking, telling them everything and it was such a fun class, and it was so open, and it was so. It was actually almost more fun because we could speak specifically to price points, and we could speak specifically to the kind of clientele that walks in. And so, the kind of goals that we have, and it was great and there was no, there's no conflict. There's no complaints. 

Cameron 
There's no secrets. 

Jackie 
Plenty of clients. 

Cameron 
There's no secrets, we just tell everybody what we know 'cause we want everybody to be successful, right? 

Jackie 
And I think that's an educator mindset. We've all met the people who are not that way, but as a true educator mindset. You're like this is what I know, and it's actually better if I share it. 

It's not for me to hide. It's like the purpose of this life is to put it out there and give them everything, because if they go it get to be successful because of things I shared. It actually lifts up the whole industry. 

Cameron 
And the whole community is just better for it. 

Jackie 
Exactly 

Cameron 
I love that no; I love that and that's one thing that going out there and educating. 

You're just like I want you guys to be successful. I want success for you 'cause there's so many heads like I remember coming out of beauty school even and saying there's so many heads to go around. 

I'm going to build my people. I'm going to find my clientele, it's whatever.  But it was we were still a little bit stuck in that like Nope, Nope, you gotta hoard your clientele and it was. 

Like no. No, you don’t. 'cause they're not stuck with you. 

Jackie 
I think social media was really the game changer for that because it used to be you went to a place and the salon carried all the clients and if you left, they couldn't find you. And the difference is, I mean social media has benefited our industry in so many ways. 

But I think one of the things that benefited is like a client as a client and they get to choose to go whatever they want. Nobody owns them. 

You don't own them as a stylist the salon doesn't own them, and so if a client wants a change or to follow somebody or to not follow somebody like that is their own choice. sSo because of that it has required us to keep up on top of our game. 

Because a client can go anywhere and they're always going to have new stuff shoved in their face all the time. 

So, if you as a stylist aren't continuing your education then they're going to see that you know Joe Schmo down the street is doing something cool and new. And maybe lighting hair on fire or something. Maybe that's what they want. Maybe you don't light hair on fire. I don't know. 

Cameron 
Right? Trends that's trending, that there was a trend. Jacob Kahn and Ben White. They do a This is a Bad Idea podcast. And it was, I'm pretty sure there was one where they were lighting hair on fire, but don't quote me on that. 

Jackie 
It sounds like it smells real bad, I'm not... 

Cameron 
You gotta have a lot of incense in that salon. That's what's happening. 

OK, so my favorite part of the show asking you what your craziest story is. 

Jackie 
So, I will give the story specific to education. I was in another state on the other side of the country. Because usually when we go out and educate a lot of the times, we'll at least, the way my day a lot runs is I get a morning demo right where I have a live model that I do for the class. And then we do an afternoon hands-on on mannequin work that usually pertains to whatever I did in the morning. 

So, the salon, because I'm traveling from all over the salon is in charge of finding our models, right? 

All is good. So, this specific model showed up and it's usually. It's a mix, right? Sometimes it's a really great model. Sometimes you get like virgin hair and you're like this is amazing. 

Or you get somebody who just has really great hair. This was one of those that there had been a lot of things happening, but you know what? This is what we do. This is what happens behind the chair right? We don't get to be. Not every model gets to be the perfect head of hair, so we talked about it and, but we'll just say that she had recently lost her significant other and I was really happy to get to do this for her because how you know? 

Wait and make somebody feel better, you know? 

We just keep going so we do a demo. I apply all the color she's processing. We're good. I'm getting the hands on going. It’s time for her to be rinsed. 

And in this specific salon. It was a gorgeous salon, like so beautiful, they had a separate shampoo area, you know? Whole separate room. 

So, I made sure the class was good. I'm gonna take the model back so I take her into this private room. The salon is closed outside of this, so there's nobody else in here. 

And as anybody who's lost somebody in their life. You know that they're always on the forefront of your mind, right? 

So, I asked her well, tell me about your significant other? So, she starts telling me about this person and says I said, well, how did you meet? And she proceeds to tell me that they were first cousins.  

Cameron 
Oh dear. 

Jackie 
But they didn't grow up together and they didn't grow up together, so it was fine. 

Cameron 
Ok. 

Jackie 
And of course, as you can imagine I was feeling dumb struck, And I was kind of like you have to process information really fast, and we know every hairstylist that is worth their weight in gold has a poker face beyond any measure. Right like we see stuff, we hear atuff and we just... You gotta roll it just is what it is. 

And so, I said, “Oh”. And then I realized that she had told me earlier that they had children. 

Cameron 
Oh. 

Jackie 
So, then I was like OK and it like nothing had happened. She proceeded to tell me why everything was fine, and they had had genetic testing and then she finishes with really the hardest thing was is telling them that they couldn't marry anybody within our family because if they did, their children wouldn't be ok. 

Cameron 
Oh. 

Jackie 
And I just remember toning her and being like I don't even know what to do. Like how do you respond to this? 

Cameron 
You might just have to go back to like we're all royalty here, we're just trying to keep it in the family. Just put that in your head. 

Jackie 
Yep, so I just kind of let her talk and I just said, “ok”, and we just refocused back onto the hair world, and I finish my class. 

We finish our hands-on. All is good. I thank the salon and I leave, and I jumped into my rental car and call my husband. I'm like Oh my God, yes, I just happened? 

Cameron 
Ok, uhm, I thought Ryan had the craziest story, but I think you might actually. I don't know, they just keep getting crazier. 

Jackie 
So, you know we always joke. That, like you, you know the name of your podcasts all about therapy. And we hear everything, and people love to sit down in the salon and just blurb, everything, right. 

Cameron 
She felt real comfortable. 

Jackie 
But that that one wins. And I kept trying to process. Am I the only person who knows this in her world because she's never told anybody? Or is this like a normal? Like I was either a safe person that she was never going to see again, or this is just commonplace in her world and everybody in her world knows this. 

I didn't ask. 

Cameron 
Yeah, that's that was smart. Before we go on to a little-known fact about you, I must speak about my sponsor. 

Jackie 
Of course. 

Cameron 
Trey, from uh Style Sharp Shears. He actually sponsors the Chair-apist and he is actually he's a guardian Angel 'cause he comes in. He sharpens my shears and then I have them back the same day. 

I don't... No offense against mailing out, but I really like to have them back same day and then they're sharp and perfect and amazing and I love him. 

So, Style Sharp Shears. 

Jackie 
That's awesome. 

Cameron 
He is my sponsor. 

Jackie 
Thank you, Trey. 

Cameron 
I know he's the best. Do you know Trey? 

Jackie 
I do. 

Cameron 
Does he come and sharpen your shears? 

Jackie 
He has not yet, but, uh, they'll have to try him out. 

Cameron 
You'll love him. 

Jackie 
Yeah, no, it's. 

Cameron 
I mean, you can give him a Guinea pig pair, but I can promise you by the shape of my shears they are impeccable. And he will tell you to like ooh, these only have so much time left in them or ooh, these are doing great. 

He's really, he's awesome. 

Jackie 
Oh, that's awesome. 

Cameron 
And he fits into the salon atmosphere, just like he camouflages himself perfectly or he interacts really well. In fact, I think he might have gotten one of my stylists a new client out of one of those. 

 
He just works really well for networking too. 

Jackie 
That's awesome. 

Cameron 
Ok, so a little-known fact about you. 

Jackie 
Oh, a little-known fact about me. I grew up in a very, very small town like I went to this very tiny I. I we say things where I grew up, there's no traffic lights, no fast food and you say things like do you want to go to town? 

Because when you don't live in town, you have to drive there. 

Cameron 
Where did you grow up? 

Jackie 
I grew up in a place called Suncrest 

Cameron 
Where is Suncrest? 

Jackie 
It's outside of Spokane, so when people meet me, and they say where are you from? I always say Spokane because you know, it's kind of like if you lived in Rainier, but you said you were from Tacoma or Puyallup or something because nobody or Yelm... 

Cameron 
Is it any close proximity to Deer Park? 

Jackie 
Yes, actually we are probably like 30 minutes from Deer Park. We played them in high school sports right so? 

Cameron 
Perfect, perfect. I know where that is. 

Jackie 
There we go. 

Cameron 
My horse moved there. 

Jackie 
So, yeah. 

Cameron 
Oh yeah, she's there now. 

Jackie 
Yep, and I have, you know, and because of that I have the animals like you. I have a horse and two donkeys, 2 dogs, a cat, saltwater fish all the place. I know I just keep gaining them. 

 
I grew up in the tiny town, my husband grew up here in a big, big school. The first time I took him out there, I think he thought I was taking him out to kill him. He just kept driving, he's like. Where we going? 

Cameron 
I like that 'cause you really seem like a big city girl, so. 

Jackie 
I think I always wanted that, and I think that was an interesting thing about you know doing hair and becoming an educator. When we went to beauty school, I always had these big dreams of like you know, the big city and do big hair and magazines and Fashion Week and all of that stuff. 

And then you know you don't think it's possible. 'cause it's it's so little like you're, you're here you're such a tiny little fish, right? And then I think the education side has allowed me to realize that I get to do all of that different stuff. It might not be exactly what I imagined, but the stuff I've been able to do is such a mix of good like I still get to work with my behind the chair, right? 

I still get to see my clients and having build those relationships and then I get to go out and do all of this fun stuff. 

But I mean I'm 11 years into education. And, you know it's not glamorous 'cause I mean how many times you've been at an airport by yourself stuck. 

Cameron 
In the Chick-fil-A line like, I just need to eat something. 

Jackie 
Yeah, you're trying to eat something or you're trying, you know your flight got cancelled and you're trying to figure out how you're going to get home 'cause you also have clients tomorrow, you know or 

Cameron 
You have to make it back to pick your kids up from school that happened to me a few weeks ago. 

Jackie 
Yeah, yeah, and a lot of the times people don't realize a lot of the times when we teach out, at least for me when I teach on a Monday, even if I let's say I teach in Florida.  I'm going to fly to Florida on Sunday. I going to stay in a hotel Sunday night. I'm going to get up on Monday morning on Eastern Standard Time, teach a class, get done, drive to the airport, get on a flight, fly back home and take clients on Tuesday morning. 

Cameron 
That sounds about right Sunday to Monday. So, for anybody out there looking to be an educator, there's your work week Sunday to Monday unless you go full time at it. 

Jackie 
Right, yeah, right and I mean, obviously it depends on what you're doing behind the chair, but for me Tuesdays are a huge, big, long day, and so I've always, you know, continued to work. 

But it's I mean it's awesome and we love it. And you know, there's some parts that are just glorious, but there is a lot of there's a lot of grinding that happens behind the scenes. And a lot of training and a lot of prep and a lot of unpaid hours that happen so that when you set foot in that salon, it looks like you know what you're doing. 

Cameron 
Well, you've done a really good job of looking, at least like you know what you're doing and thank you so much for coming on the spot on the podcast. 

I'm just I'm just stoked to have you on because you you're awesome and you have a lot of good information to give. 

Jackie 
Thank you so much for having me. 

Cameron 
And so here you are. thank you. 

Jackie 
Amazing thank you and I'll schpeel myself if you want to find me. 

I'm on Instagram at @jackieep, and the salon is Chroma Salon, Tacoma. 

And yeah, you can follow my stuff and I go all over the place so. 

Cameron 
And you should follow Jackie. She's awesome. 

Jackie 
Thank you, I appreciate it so much. Thank you so much for having me on here. This is so fun.