Episode #11: Boundaries with Susan Greenside

In this episode, I am chatting with my longtime friend, Susan Greenside, about setting boundaries in your business. Whether setting parameters around when it’s ok to contact you (not midnight) or how to communicate and enforce your cancellation policy, we hit it all.

As service professionals, we want to serve our clients, but they need to respect us too. This episode is all about setting client expectations so that they and you have a great relationship.

Transcript

Audio file 00:00:04 Cameron 

Welcome to another episode of the Chair-apist. This is a very, very important episode, and I have my friend Susan, who we have worked together for, I feel like it's been 20 years?  

00:00:25 Susan 

Probably! Yeah, we're rounding up on 20 years, that's wild. 

00:00:28 Cameron 

Yeah, I was the crazy person that ran into her at a coffee shop and was desperate new place to work. I was in a very bad situation. 

I think I basically grabbed you and said where do you work? 

Are they hiring 'cause you were wearing an apron and you looked like a hair stylist. 

00:00:43 Susan 

I think that was going to be 'cause I've listened to your podcast and you always have people with their craziest story. 

And I was thinking about having that be my... 

00:00:51 Cameron 

Wait for it, we'll save it till the end. Oh, we've got stories. 

So, today's podcast is about boundaries.  This is a hard one for a lot of us. 

And how long did it actually take us weeks to schedule this? Nail this down? Because we're all working on our schedule boundaries. 

00:01:15 Susan 

Yeah, yeah. Schedule boundaries. That's what I don't know. I don't think I have. I don't have the answers for that one. 

That was a hard one. I'm getting it. I think I'm getting it. But yeah, that's a hard one. 

00:01:24 Cameron 

Boundaries with guests. 

00:01:28 Susan 

Boundaries with clients are really important, I feel like especially with the nature of our...what we do, it's hard to maintain that boundary because we are in the service industry and a lot of our clients have our personal contact information just the way the salons have shifted. 

Some of us are in private studios, some of us are in booth rental salon situations, but a lot of clients have our personal phone numbers. 

Can be a slippery slope with them messaging us, calling us. Yeah, and I know that you've experienced some issues with that too. 

But you and I have been doing this for 20 years and we've seen the shift of...I used to keep my books on pen and paper and clients when I first left my big salon that we were at together, I kept my books on pen and paper, and clients did have to contact me directly to make an appointment. 

And I think now we have the luxury of online booking and that's made a huge difference with that boundary with clients. 

That now I don't know when that happened. I remember the freedom that that gave me, that I didn't have to be tied to my phone, that I didn't have to be worried if I got back to this person or answered this person in time. 

I do still sometimes find myself, like this morning before you called I was messaging clients and it’s Friday morning and they do have the capability of booking online and they should be doing that. 

00:02:49 Cameron 

So there's actually a really good little bit of information I believe I got it from Brett Siva. It's just a little automatic note that you can copy and paste from your notes that just says hi, you know, this is the gist of this. It’s not word for word. 

I'd love to get in contact with you or make you an appointment. Here's my website, let me know. Well, I always say let me know if you can't find anything, but I think hers is more straight to the point. “Hey, I can't wait to meet you and do your hair. Here, here's how to make an appointment and let them know. 

00:03:22 Cameron 

How far you're booked out. It's something like that, because it does. 

00:03:25 Cameron 

It would make it a lot easier and sometimes I do do that and then sometimes I say, oh, let me get on my books and look. 

And I know better because sometimes I forget to message them back because I'm so busy. Or sometime when I message them back, you're texting back and forth six times on appointments and it it's ridiculous. 

It shouldn't be like that and it's not the guest's fault. We are opening that door. 

00:03:46 Susan 

And that's where, yeah, that's 100%, that's where that boundary and that's where sometimes 'cause boundary, right, is like a line your yard, right. This is where my yard is and you have to maintain that and sometimes, you know, we're extra stressed and it's hard to maintain that boundary and that's where we kind of loosen up that line. 

I think it's definitely hard when we're experiencing more stress, and this is a big time of stress where there's a lot going on in our world right now to maintain that boundary with clients. 

I have many generations of hairdressers at my salon. 

I still have three stylists in my salon right now that still do paper but like write their clients appointments down on a handwritten book. One of those gals retired recently and passed her clients on to some of the girls in the salon. 

And they are having a hard time because they're training our clients is very important on how, on what our boundaries are. 

I've noticed some of those girls are having a hard time with those style it or with the clients that that stylist had because they're so used to calling and they're “I want an appointment this week, I'll see you this week” and they're like, no, no 

00:04:52 Cameron 

That's where I do believe that having a Google sheet or Google form within your website is really important because people can go on and fill it out and you have a little bit of an interview beforehand. 

And sometimes I'll do a phone consultation, but most times I'll do a 5 minute consultation with somebody if they're trying to get on my books and I'm booked out a little ways and some people don't have time for that.  

So I'm not saying that's the option, but making there be a little bit of a barrier between you and the appointment setup is really good, like having the scheduling platform, being able to fill out a Google sheet before you schedule.And that doesn't work for everybody. 

I still haven't done that particular step, but I am struggling trying to balance my schedule with new guests setting up boundaries. 

And honestly, it's not a struggle for me to set up the boundaries with the new guests because I tell them you book online 48 hours cancellation policy, they have to sign a form now for me because I'm done with that. 

That's another thing we'll talk about. 

You just lay out your yard for them and you tell them what your expectations are, and they're gonna love you no matter what. 

00:05:53 Susan 

Yep, Yep. 

00:05:56 Cameron 

But they're going to respect you more than the last stylist because you set those boundaries up. 

And I'm not saying their last stylist was not a good stylist, but setting those boundaries up and hopefully that will teach all stylists to set boundaries up so we can all be consistent and be setting the tone for our future clientele. 

00:06:16 Susan 

Sometimes I do find it myself. It's hard to maintain that, and that's something that's practice, right? Like you definitely have to practice maintaining that boundary? 

00:06:24 Cameron 

When we started, our boundaries were set up by our salon. To be completely honest, some of those boundaries weren't set in stone. 

You know, we had a great start. We had a great foundation. 

There was a lot of wonderful things about that place that I've learned and obviously I've brought to where I am now. I'm learning about the Groupon boundary system 'cause I had a new stylist that was working with me, who's now working with you, that we were talking about doing Groupons. 

00:06:51 Susan 

I won't let her do one. 

00:06:52 Cameron 

No, and I think there's. 

00:06:53 Cameron 

Nothing wrong if you're trying to build a clientele, but it's really hard to set a boundary when you have a system like that because it's loose lines. So, if you are to do something like that, you have to make sure that all of your rules are written in the fine print of those Groupons those coupons, whatever you're doing. 

And I'm not trying to get off topic, but just for anybody out there who is trying to do those things 'cause, that's a huge boundary you have to set. 

And we've seen that time and time again trying to build clienteles for newer stylists that it's kind of like you just feel like you're getting run all over and so creating a scheduling platform and setting up your rules with your clients. 

00:07:27 Susan 

I think. 

00:07:30 Cameron 

And I hate to say rules, but it's just like hey, they expect a lot from us, so we should expect from them as well. 

00:07:35 Susan 

So that's respect us, yeah, it's about respecting, it's about respecting our time 'cause we are in the service industry and that's, I think people forget sometimes that they're not the only person that we're serving right 'cause when they are in our chair, they are the only person and a lot of times how you know, we treat them as if they are the only person, they are the most important person. 

They're yeah. They're the most important person at that time. Not at 12:00 o'clock at night. You know when they're messaging you and you're like what are you doing? 

00:08:04 Cameron 

Well, and the other thing you can do. It may sound inconsiderate or rude, but when they're calling you that late at night, it's OK foryou to say 

00:08:13 Susan 

Oh, absolutely. 

00:08:13 Cameron 

Contact me within my business hours. 

00:08:15 Susan 

Absolutely respond or just not even respond at that time. 

00:08:18 Cameron 

No response. 

00:08:19 Susan 

On the next day, respond in the morning 

00:08:21 Cameron 

Ok. So, then that moves us into cancellation policies. And when is it time to say your appointment is 40 minutes in, we are not starting. What is your policy on that? So it goes up 30 minutes late and it's a cut in color? 

00:08:36 Susan 

Do you have a 15 minute window? We have that listed on our website. We also we have our cancellation policy listed. So it's a 24 hour cancellation policy or you will be charged the full price of the booking. 

That drives me crazy. That's our livelihood. That's our money. 

That you're just like, well never mind, I don't want to come, that's not, that's not ok. 15 minutes past the window you have to rebook, you're you're paying for today and you rebook. 

And a lot of times what happens is say they're 15 minutes late, they pay for that service for that day, the cancellation policy it it never goes smoothly, but it goes towards their next appointment. 

00:09:12 Cameron 

I don't do that. One time in particular it was a sadly it was a minor that booked on my booking, on my website, on my booking platform. 

She couldn't remember where she booked. And she booked at a couple of salons because she's trying to get in and it was one of my Saturday appointments which those are going away shortly and those are coveted, as you know. And it was a 3-hour Balayage, haircut, toning, like she had all these things that she'd put in there too. 

And my bad for not sending her a reminder or making sure she was set up for a reminder, but also hello... totally rude and she just acted like she didn't have any responsibility for the appointment or the fact that she booked it. 

I did send her an invoice. She never paid it but. 

00:09:58 Susan 

Does your booking platform send reminders? 

00:10:00 Cameron 

Well now if they do it does it does an e-mail reminder and if you sign up for text message reminders then it will send you a text message reminder. 

And she did get an e-mail reminder. 

But the point being is at that moment I didn't have credit card automatic credit cards set up on there. 

So, you have to enter your credit card now when you make an appointment. And it does specifically say if you no show and no call then you will get charged 100% of your appointment. I'm setting myself up for success and obviously I shot myself in the foot. My Schedulicity changed from taking Square payments to not taking Square payments, and now they have their own payment. So that's why all of the credit cards got kicked off of Schedulicity. So now I'm slowly, gradually adding them back. But for anybody who's experiencing that, do not allow yourself to be disrespected and not be paid for your time. 

There's so many things that we could be doing rather than sitting around waiting for a guest to show up or getting another guest in there. 

00:10:54 Susan 

Get another guest in there. 

00:10:54 Cameron 

Life is to short. 

00:10:56 Susan 

Yeah, yeah. 

00:10:58 Susan 

And that's where I think 'cause we do at our salon. We do have our platform set up.  

You have to put a credit card in your told about the cancellation pro and I'm lucky. I think I'm lucky enough that I don't...I haven't... It's been a while, knock on wood, but I haven't experienced a no show or someone you know if someone’s running late, they text me, they call me. 

00:11:17 Cameron 

That was the first one in a while but it burned me bad. 

00:11:21 Susan 

I would have been pretty ticked off, I would have been. 

00:11:23 Cameron 

It's mad and I texted. I actually texted Susan a couple weeks ago because I had a client get really frustrated and and leave because she felt overwhelmed by the space and how many people were in here. 

00:11:34 Cameron 

And instead of saying anything, I let it go. But hindsight, I probably should have just said, hey, you're going to have to pay for your appointment that you walked away from today and until you pay that you can't return. 

I do not talk trash about my clients. I love all of my clients, but I know that there's a few clients here and there that it's time to move on. And that opens a door for new new blood, new guests, new fun people in your chair. 

If you have somebody that gives you anxiety 2 hours before they get there, that is not your client. 

00:12:06 Susan 

Well, that's a boundary issue too, right? 'cause, you're letting that person affect your personal well-being, and that's a boundary, right? 

By letting that person continue to disrupt how you feel. 

I'm in this industry 'cause I love what I do, and I get to come to work, and I get to hang out with all the people I work with are fantastic. All my clients are fantastic.  

I love what I do 'cause I get to go to work and have a good time. And if you're going to disrupt my good time, you can go. You can go somewhere else silly. 

Letting people go is very important. Somebody better will fill their spot. 

00:12:41 Cameron 

I do believe in the last 15 years I have grown a lot as a stylist and going out and educating in the world and learning about how other stylists work and how they work with their guests, and everything has taught me a ton. And obviously all of you guys have taught me a ton and my boundaries are, I want to say that like 95%, I have about 5% more with clients to work on our, we'll say 90, I have about 10% more to work on. 

But if you met me 15 years ago you would have been like what? 

And I feel the same way. Well, you know, you met me 15 years ago. 

00:13:16 Susan 

I did meet you 15 years ago. 

00:13:16 Cameron 

You’ve known me for a while. 

00:13:19 Cameron 

But we've both grown a lot, and I mean everybody that we've worked with, we still get together with stylists that we've worked with for a long time. 

You know that we do monthly meet up and we have grown so much and so we're going to continue these types of podcast episodes because these are important. 

00:13:33 Susan 

Yeah, well, you're growing, so. 

And I think it took, it took a big shift for me right to learn boundaries with clients and unfortunately you took on some of my clients that I didn't have healthy boundaries with previously. 

00:13:47 Susan 

I let clients walk all over me. And I think definitely for you. I feel like I've been watching you grow and see that, like. 

00:13:55 Cameron 

You are interviewing the guests either first time they sit in the chair, they're interviewing you and you're interviewing them and it's ok for you to decide if they're not fit with you and find them somebody new to, that's ok as well. 

00:14:09 Cameron 

Style Sharp Shears is the best shear sharpening service. I love it because Trey comes in here and he sharpens my shears here. He doesn't take him with him. He will do mobile orders as well so you can ship out to him, but for those of you who are local or once he can travel to, he is great 'cause he comes in and he does your shears in salon totally blends in with your environment, makes you super happy, and then he's off and he makes your next appointment. 

For those who need to ship in, he is super-fast and efficient. And soon he will have his own shears. 

That is Trey with Style Sharp Shear Sharpening Services. 

00:14:48 Susan 

My craziest story so I used to previously in my past hairdresser life, I used to have a client and they would sit in your chair and you know, you know when you're talking to them. I'm I can't make this person happy. 

They've never been happy with any hairdresser they've ever been. 

But something in the back of your head goes. I have the magic wand. I can do it right? That used to be me. 

I would be like, oh, I can do this, I can fix her, I can make her better and recently, I want to say it was back in October. I had this woman and I was talking to her and she was talking about every hairdresser she's had in the past couldn't do it right. 

Her highlights were too dark, her highlights were two blondes, blah, blah, blah, right? 

Like, we've all heard this story and I was just like, I'm not going to do it, I'm not going to do her hair, and it was like an aha epiphany moment for me. This is where I'm going to take my power back. 

She was like, “So what are we going to do?” 

And I was like, I'm not. I'm not going to do your hair today. 

And she looked at me. 

And she went, excuse me and I was like, I don't think I can make you happy. 

And I told her, you know, you went to this salon. It's a great salon. I know those people. They do amazing work, and they couldn't make you happy. I don't think I can do it. 

And she stood up and she was like, so you're not going to do my hair today? 

And I was like. No, Can, I swear on your podcast? I don't know. 

00:16:10 Cameron 

Even yes, yes you can. 

00:16:13 Susan 

But she was like, you're a fucking slacker. And I looked around my salon. You've been in my salon. It's Halloween. So, I hung all these banners up for Halloween and all I could think was like, I decorated this whole space by myself. 

I am not a slacker. 

And she stormed out of the salon. She called. She kept swearing. 

She was like, you're a fucking slacker. 

And it just felt so good. It felt so good to take. I felt like I took my power back. 

I would have spent the next two hours stressed. And just, like, panicked. 

How can I fix her? How could I make her better? And I knew at the end of her appointment she wasn't going to be happy. And then I would have to resolve that situation somehow. But in that moment, I was like, no, no, I'm not going to do it. 

If you're ever in that moment, do just say no. Just say no. 

It felt so good to just be like, no. 

00:17:04 Cameron 

And you took that time to do something else 

00:17:08 Susan 

I did, I think, I think I unclogged our shampoo bowls or something real, real glamorous. 

00:17:13 Cameron 

But a little-known fact about you that not a lot of people know? 

00:17:17 Susan 

Do you know that I'm afraid of horses? Horses are terrifying. And you take me out to the barn sometimes, and that was that was the most terrifying moment in my life. 

00:17:26 Cameron 

Well, thank you so much for coming on. 

The Chair-apist and we are so lucky 'cause we do love our jobs and we love talking to each other, so that doesn't hurt.