Episode #15: Leadership with Chris Sulimay

In episode 15 of The Chair-apist podcast, the hairdresser and global educator shares his wisdom on how to grow as a person and a professional in the hair industry. This episode is essential for anyone looking to expand their knowledge and skills in the field and beyond.

Chris Sulimay is a powerful force in the beauty industry, with over 25 years of experience as a stylist, trainer, salon owner, cosmetology school owner, and global educator. He has personally impacted more than 50,000 salon professionals through his work. His expertise and passion have been featured on stages worldwide, including New York Fashion Week. He is a highly sought-after speaker and mentor, helping aspiring salon professionals reach their goals in the beauty industry. Chris has an undeniable passion for all things beauty, and it shows in everything he does. He strives to bring out the best in those he works with, always pushing them to be better than they ever thought possible.

If you're a hairstylist who is looking for a little introspection and kick in the butt, this episode is for you!

Check out Chris on Instagram at:  @chrissulimay

Transcript

00:00:11 Cameron 

Welcome to another episode of the Chair-apist and I am on today with Chris Sulimay, who is been in the industry for how long now. 

00:00:20 Chris 

This is my 30th year. 

00:00:22 Cameron 

So you started when you were 12. 

00:00:25 Chris 

I started when I was 13, but I mean physically licensed, yeah, this is my 30th year. 

00:00:32 Cameron 

That's so awesome and it's such an I mean 30 years and you're still in it and doing it and you have, you have basically reinvented yourself, multiple times in your career. 

00:00:42 Chris 

Yeah, 100%, I mean just to qualify, you know I was the assistant that cleaned shampoo bowls you know and swept floors. I was the hair stylist that wasn't busy. Then I was the hair stylist that was an extreme high performer. Then I was the one that trained people got in education spoke globally. Literally on every continent except Antarctica. 

And then I got into education full time and ran education teams and now I'm really speaking on behalf of the human being behind the chair. 

Who is, you know our, I believe that business, the salon business, but business in general gives you a playground to learn to grow up. 

00:01:26 Chris 

And right, right? 

00:01:27 Cameron 

Oh boy does it. 

00:01:30 Chris 

And by growing up, I mean you learn number one as a hair stylist behind the chair or salon owner. 

We have the opportunity to meet a more diverse crowd than almost everybody and really have personal conversations. So, if you think about it, you have a client in your chair right now who owns half of your town, right? 

You know you have that super rich well, they've done it all. They've developed it all. They are the person. 

I had a client in my chair who was that person for me. His name was Steve, and when he sold his business, he sold it for $287 million and I and. 

00:02:07 Cameron 

Oh my, that's a lot of money. 

00:02:08 Chris 

And I got to learn from that man through our conversations, and because of the relationships that hairdressers and salon owners get to develop, they willingly give you that information, right?  

You can't buy this shit in college, right? You can't. 

And so, on the other end of it gives you the opportunity we were talking about pay raises or, or raising prices before we got on and it gives you the opportunity to walk through the discomfort of learning how to have a crucial and important conversation with a client about a price increase when you don't feel worth it inside. 

So, you know to me like business being behind the chair is a playground to develop lifelong relationships. Be a staple in your community as well as grow up as a person. If that's what you're looking for. 

And some people miss that opportunity being behind the chair. Some people get to a place where they're comfortable and it's just too much for them to grow and they stay stagnant and you see this all the time. 

00:03:17 Cameron 

Oh, I see it all the time where I'm just like. Can I help you please? 

00:03:23 Chris 

Right and then in the very chair next to them there's somebody else that decided to take a different journey. And the only difference there is one of them sees the opportunity in a different way. 

And then they seize the opportunity in a different way. And so like, that's the opportunity that we have, and I and I you know, the where what I find myself doing now a lot is trying to relate to people that just because you're behind a chair, you're not any different than somebody else who's passionate about the thing they do, whether they're a chef or a used car salesman, right? 

If they're truly passionate and sees the good in what they do. 

Then we're not that different and that you can grow up not only professionally, but personally, and you can practice those skills in your salon every day. 

00:04:20 Cameron 

You know, it's interesting that you say that about on point and in perspective of where you are in your career. 

It's we had and this is just an example, a shoe salesman that I worked with at Nordstrom growing up as a kid. He was the best at sales of anybody I’ve ever met. 

He went to conferences. He went to, oh gosh, he was a Toastmaster so he could learn how to speak to people and he was super successful. The number one salesperson in that company for years and then retired. But it's like a shoe salesman you know and or a hair stylist like. Well, don't you just cut hair and it's like no, there is so much more beyond that. 

So you saying that and this speaks to not just here silence as we were talking about this speaks to everybody. 

00:05:01 Cameron 

And wherever you are and where your passion lies.  

00:05:03 Chris 

Yeah, 1000% and the thing is, it is like one of the first challenges is seeing that opportunity for what it is like for a real opportunity to offer a person a very valued service. 

And I'm not talking about is your balayage or you know whatever as good as the person next to you.  

I'm talking about did you develop that relationship at a deeper level while valuing yourself and then did you decide to take on the challenge of developing yourself professionally and meaning that by 25 years old, I'm a different hair stylist and person than I was when I was 21 and when I'm 30, I'm different than 25 and so on. And what that means is growing and becoming something new almost on a daily. 

It means what I did yesterday doesn't get me to where I'm going. It got me to where I'm at, and sometimes it means being strangely uncomfortable in a career evolution. 

If you're open to that, you've got a hell of a journey ahead of you. 

00:06:13 Cameron 

It is it's...One of my mentors in here actually said if you're not willing to change, or if you're not willing to be like the crab that gets into a bigger shell, then you're in the wrong industry and it hurts. 

She's like it hurts to grow, but it's good to grow. 

00:06:27 Chris 

To add to that so sorry, but like that's super important. 

00:06:29 Cameron 

No, please. 

00:06:32 Chris 

You're on the wrong freaking planet. You're on the wrong planet if you're not ready to get into another shell. 

And I mean, if you're old like me you're now... 

00:06:39 Cameron 

You’re only 30, what, 40 we decided since you started when you were... 

00:06:44 Chris 

Oh all right, yeah, yeah yeah yeah now. I'm 49, I'll be 50 next year when you're 50, and I promise you you will be right. 

Hopefully,  you will be. When you're 50, you'll look back, you'll go number one I'm I'm a lot younger than I thought 50 would be, but #2, you'll have chapters that you'll be able to see. So right now, one of my most fun things to do is talk with millennials about Zillenials, right? 

Because I'm a Gen X’er and it was like there was a period of time there where as a Gen X or I was out of style. 

You did not want to be me. You know I was like deal over the we were irrelevant we didn't, you know and I felt it I felt irrelevant, and now I have these, you know, leaders that are millennials, grandma millennials, grandpa millennials that are, you know, in their mid 30s. 

And they're running up against the same feelings that I felt when I was 32 behind the chair and had a bangin’ clientele, which was wow, even though I'm making a shit-ton of money behind my chair, I feel irrelevant compared to my 22 year old new hires because I'm just not as cool anymore, right? I'm like hot. 

00:07:57 Cameron 

You're not take you weren't tick talking and Instagramming and. 

00:08:00 Chris 

Well, that you know that didn't exist when I was 32, right? 

00:08:02 Cameron 

No, I know. 

00:08:04 Chris 

You know and. 

00:08:04 Cameron 

But they still have their things you know that they did where you're like, oh I need to learn more from you. 

00:08:09 Cameron 

And what can I teach you and what can you can you teach me? 

00:08:12 Chris 

Well, and that's what I talk about with chapters. It's like if you're if you're a Gen Z right now, you know, and you're looking at, you know out in the future, and you're going I'm never going to get there, you will, and when you do, you'll be able to look back and share your wisdom on the people that are coming in and the wisdom that I'm sharing. like right now, more than ever. 

Number one is. It really is a journey. 

It's a freaking marathon. It's a it's a Ultramarathon. You will have peaks and you will have valleys. And when you're at your peak, I'm not saying like be looking for the valley, but I'm saying like enjoy it. 

Make sure you prepare for the next valley, 'cause you'll have one. And when you do have a valley, it's totally ok. Like if you're in a valley right now, it's actually a really cool place to be because there's nowhere to go but up and you have a great learning experience. 

00:09:04 Cameron 

'cause there's nowhere to go but up from there. 

00:09:09 Chris 

Like if you're struggling right now behind the chair to grow a business. Be grateful for that because you're figuring shit out. 

Tony Robbins says that he says, like when people are successful, they party and when people are failed, they ponder. Make sure you're a ponderer so you're not looking at it and hiding and caving 'cause it's scary and you do. 

You question your self value I've? I mean, I've been like I can talk about being depressed while in a plateau or a valley to the point where you're questioning yourself and you're going to, am I even worth it as a person because I'm not as successful as I used to be, right? 

00:09:48 Chris 

I see you want to say something? 

00:09:49 Cameron 

Well, no. I was just thinking about, uh, a stylist, that I know who went through some serious health crises and was a super successful stylist has kind of had to come and go from the industry and she's in a moment right now where she's she feels a little helpless, even though she knows her industry is resilient, and she'll come back with a clientele. But she's in the valley right now and this is a good episode for a lot of people, 'cause I think there are more people than we think that are in a valley because either they're struggling with their clientele or they're struggling with dealing with their clientele and holding boundaries and holding those tough conversations, and you wanted to talk about leadership? 

00:10:24 Chris 

Yeah, this leads right into it because what you know I want to respond to what you just said because it's it's maybe the most important thing that's been said so far. It's like there are more people there than  we would know or believe, and you know I don't know what what it is about getting older, but people are more willing to tell the truth to you. 

So I'm having a lot of people tell me the truth lately and the truth that I'm hearing is I'm at a point in my life and in all honesty, I don't know which way is up and I don't even know what to do about that.  

I don't know what my next move is and whether I'm behind the chair and feeling stuck, or I'm a salon owner and I'm looking at the noise in the industry and the noise says that whatever style of salon that I chose to run, everybody else is doing the opposite right? And it it's like and everybody will tell you that you can't have 7 billion opposites. It's not how it works. 

00:11:23 Cameron 

Don’t listen. 

00:11:25 Chris 

Don't listen to the noise.  There are more people that are feeling this way and I don't know what it was. I don't know if it was COVID, I don't know if it was the show like I don't know if it was any of that 

But, what but what I know is it's very real and I'm having those conversations with people outside of the industry too. 

00:11:39 Cameron 

Well, we've had a huge shift just in general, I think a shift in social consciousness, a shift in culture I don't know, especially in the United States, I'm sure globally too. 

00:11:48 Chris 

The world. 

00:11:48 Cameron 

Too it is so crazy to me whether the. pandemic happened and I I guess you could erase. And we've probably seen this be in the same position that we are today. 

00:11:56 Chris 

Yeah, thing is, it's like I always tell you like I don't know. I'm not an expert on it but but what I am like developing expertise in is going. 

This shit is real. People are questioning themselves whether they're 12, 21 or you know my age. They're questioning their purpose, which I think is a great opportunity because you can get more purposeful when you question your purpose right? You can decide, like really, really decide like what is my purpose? 

Why am I doing this for and you'll either re-up and go like this was the right decision for me. Or you'll look around for a change and you know, the hair industry is a beautiful place to evolve because you can do all kinds of things right. 

00:12:33 Cameron 

It is. 

00:12:35 Chris 

You can have a podcast you can run education teams as I've done. You can be a senior vice president of a you know product company. You can...from starting out as a hair stylist. There's a million ways you can go, but you gotta get...be able to get truthful about where you're at #1, and then if you have that little fire inside that's telling you something not right. Have that conversation, you know with yourself with a mentor with somebody, because it's the most you know, one of the most important decisions you can ever make is to grow or not to grow. 

I can just tell you like from experience when I've chosen to not grow you're dying inside. You know, I'm not talking about literal death, but you...but you could. 

00:13:19 Cameron 

It's true it's so true and you know I was just actually saying to somebody in my parking lot this morning. We all live in a very small community of hippies, basically. 

00:13:31 Chris 

I want to come over there. 

00:13:31 Cameron 

Well, right on the water you're always welcome - open door policy, we say. But I just said I feel like I'm always moving and shaking and trying new things, opening new salons, doing this, doing that and I felt guilty. I was like I feel guilty about that like hey never can settle now that you're saying that I don't feel guilty about trying to share my secrets, pread the love and really try to keep out there and keep a positive frame of mind. 

Because honestly, if I wasn't doing what I'm doing, I would probably be sitting and watching a lot of House of Dragons, that's about it. 

00:14:04 Chris 

So yeah. 

00:14:06 Cameron 

That just doesn't get you anywhere. 

00:14:07 Chris 

Yeah, you know. I mean, look, there's people that are successful and there's people that are successful, right? And I'm and I want to talk about them for a minute 

00:14:16 Cameron 

Style Sharp Shears is the best shear sharpening service. I love it because Trey comes in here and he sharpens my shears here. He doesn't take him with him. He will do mobile orders as well so you can ship out to him, but for those of you who are local or ones he can travel to, he is great 'cause he comes in and he does your shears in salon totally blends in with your environment. Makes you super happy and then he's off and he makes your next appointment. 

For those who need to ship in, he is super-fast and efficient and soon he will have his own sheers. 

That is Trey with Style, Sharp Shear Sharpening Services. 

00:14:53 Chris 

I'm talking about the really successful people. The really, the really successful people. You know, the ones that you you almost won't see because they're...they've got their fingers in multiple businesses. 

They're not the front person anymore, and all of them will tell you about a time when they were unsure where they felt unworthy or when they had a major crash where they were like, Oh my God, I don't know if this is gonna work. 

All of them will tell you that, and the number one thing that they'll say that got them through it is like I decided not to sit down, that's it. 

00:15:28 Cameron 

That is how I get through life not sitting and this is the only time I think I do sit yeah when I'm actually recording a podcast. 

00:15:36 Chris 

Well, it's beautiful. 

So you, we were going to talk about leadership and personal responsibility, and I know you like to keep. 

00:15:42 Chris 

These shorts so... 

00:15:43 Cameron 

But you know, at the end of my podcasts...'cause this this is not the last time you're going to be on here. 

 So, trust me, but at the end of my podcast I always do your craziest story and like a little-known fact about you because it helps people get to know you and you have to tell us what you're doing with your consulting company and give everybody your Instagram handle so they can follow you. 

And so those are the four things you have to do now. 

00:16:08 Chris 

OK, so I do those right now yeah, all right well while I'm doing that. 

00:16:13 Chris 

In closing, I just want to give people the four levels. 

So, phase one is that personal responsibility piece. Call that self-leadership. If you're wanting to grow, you need to learn to demand out of yourself things that are hard for you to do. 

Self-leadership, that's phase one. 

Phase two is yourself and another person. That's when you start to grow in your influence and maybe people in your environment look at you. They see you're doing things good and they come over and they say hey, how did you mix that color? How did you do that technique? Blah blah? And you start to share it. 

Now you can either choose to share it or not to share it, and that's what develops leader versus not leader. Right? 

Some people decide not to share it, and they're just awesome. They're rock stars. They're great, and they can...you can do that too, but some people have a calling towards leadership, which is I want to impact other people. 

So, you self plus one. Self once you start to share with somebody usually if you're a leader, you catch the fire. 

You start to share in smaller groups. You're an educator. You know you've seen this happen in your own life. 

00:17:22 Cameron 

It's beautiful. 

00:17:24 Cameron 

It's a beautiful thing, yeah? 

00:17:26 Chris 

And then what happens when you fully develop that skill? You outgrow small groups, and you can...you can manage larger groups. 

You know I can speak to all of those and then the epitome, the pinnacle of leadership is when people have just learned and heard your ideas, and because of those ideas, they start to self-manage based on what they learned from you and that’s when you the breadth of your leadership is beyond you, and that's what's called legacy. 

00:17:58 Chris 

And so those are the levels. So if you're just curious about like how do I go on the journey? 

00:18:01 Cameron 

I love that. 

00:18:02 Chris 

That's the journey. 

00:18:02 Cameron 

Yeah, that's important because some people are wondering probably while we're talking about this. 

How do I do that? That's how you do it. Right there, yeah. 

00:18:11 Chris 

Yeah, that's how. 

00:18:11 Cameron 

And on your in your Instagram you have a lot of good little snippets and clips. 

00:18:16 Chris 

I'm starting so I've changed it so my Instagram is @chrissulimay. C-H-R-I-S-S-U-L-I-M-A-Y 

And I went quiet for a long time, not out of fear. But I just didn't know what I really wanted to talk about for a while, and I think it's important to make that decision if you want to grow, People are talking about it.  

What's your brand? What's your this? What's your that? So, I made a decision to go quiet. I actually pulled all social media platforms off of my phone. For almost a year you can kind of see when my last post was and I didn't look I didn't. 

00:18:49 Cameron 

Oh wow. 

00:18:52 Chris 

I didn't want to hear one word anybody else was Saying I wanted to go through the cocoon, the transformation to decide what I wanted to do. 

00:19:00 Chris 

And so now you're seeing me mainly in the woods. It's where I'm the most reflective. I mean, if you look behind me here like I'm on 25 acres right now on the yeah. 

00:19:07 Cameron 

Oh, that's awesome. 

00:19:09 Chris 

Camping I've been staying in a tent all over the country. It's been super fun. I have a place to live. I have a place to live. I'm not in a van down by the river. 

If you, once you decide you're you're going to see if you find my social that it's like this guy doesn't look like a hairdresser anymore because I'm a person and I, you know I I want to help people. 

00:19:28 Cameron 

That's funny 'cause I didn't recognize you, and I know I'd met you at that Koone show and I was like, oh, I remember you now, 'cause your voice sounded so familiar and you looked familiar, but I was like. But well, I don't know. 

00:19:39 Chris 

And you're right, 'cause I was still trying to fit in back then when I you know. I mean, I did not fit in in corporate. Like, I did a good job and they were promoting me, but I didn't fit in as a corporate person. 

Once I realized that, then I realized you know what? What do I really want to talk to people about and it was this. 

00:19:57 Cameron 

I think the only way some people can grow is by being an independent. 

Some people need the boundaries of corporate and they can grow that way beautifully, but I'm the same as you in a corporate scenario, I kind of get stagnant, but in an independent scenario I force myself to grow and branch out and meet you people and learn new things. 

00:20:17 Chris 

1,000,000%, and here's one thing I want to say about that. I am super supportive of teams and people who like to be on teams. 

Some people thrive in that scenario. I'm just not one of those people I'm, uh, I'm an entrepreneur and so that's 

00:20:34 Cameron 

When I manage you know my stylist teams in a... It's more of just like hey how is everything on track 'cause they're independent as well. 

And I think. I'm best also managing people who have an independent mindset as well, so that was really good information, Chris. And I really appreciate you taking your time. 

But you do have to tell us a crazy story. 

00:20:51 Chris 

OK, so totally off topic but I was in Malaysia, and I was speaking on behalf of a product company and I was speaking to multiple distributors and it's the type of place that they have to translate you. 

You know, so they have...they are either wearing translators or when you're speaking you have somebody next to you. So you say a sentence and then they translate say a sentence... 

00:21:14 Chris 

Well, that's not the story, the story is; I was in a hotel waiting for my well not waiting for my ride. 

I went down to the gym in the morning 'cause my I was jet lagged and so I was waking up at like 3:00 o'clock in the morning. And you know, like for a 10:00 o'clock speaking gig, you know, like those like. 

00:21:31 Cameron 

Yeah, that's no good. Oh, that’s terrible. 

00:21:33 Chris 

So like finally, like by 6:00 o'clock I'm jumping out of my skin, I go down to the gym by the pool, Malaysia is it's a Muslim community. And I share that to, say, great, it's a Muslim community and you know, I was there. 

I see a couple of gentlemen kind of talking pretty seriously that morning and you know, I was a little kind of frightened because this is back in the closer to the days of 9/11. 

You know, type whatever. So I want to put some perspective as to where we were at and why I'm telling this story, so I get into a cab that morning. 

The taxi driver turns around, stops the car, turns around, he looks at me and he says, did you hear the good news and I said what's the good news? 

And he said they got Osama bin Laden. 

And I was like oh shit. Like am I about to be taken someplace. And I looked at him in the eyes, yeah, and I go, is that good news? 

I mean, I must have said it with a squeak in my voice and he said, yeah, he was, you know he was a terrorist, and I was like oh yeah. 

00:22:43 Cameron 

Thank God. 

00:22:45 Chris 

And then we went to the event and all was well. 

00:22:47 Chris 

But I tell that story a lot because I've been in a lot of different a lot of different places and it was just one of the ones where I was like. Uh, is that good news? 

00:22:55 Cameron 

Oh no. 

00:22:57 Chris 

I mean I, I have a bunch of travel stories. 

I woke up in Brisbane, Australia one day after doing like 5 different three different dates in Australia in like 4 days all different time zones and two-hour flights and I woke up in the middle of the night and I went looked around at where I was. And then I went to the window of my hotel and I opened the blinds and I'm looking at the City of Brisbane. 

And I, I didn't know where I was. I had no idea and I started bawling. I was a grown man. I'm standing there and I'm it's whatever time it was in the morning and I just couldn't get a context for where I was. 

Finally, I was just kind of looking. I was like I kind of recognize... And I see the Ferris wheel. And like I go, I'm in Brisbane, Oh my God and I was. 

00:23:46 Cameron 

I've done that. 

00:23:47 Chris 

Able to go to sleep. 

00:23:47 Cameron 

It just here, but I where I wake up in a hotel room and I'm like. 

00:23:51 Chris 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

00:23:52 Cameron 

Where am I? Oh, that's right. I think I'm in California, but never in another country, so. 

00:23:58 Chris 

It's yeah so anyway, so that I have one last funny story. That, and you're right, you guys can choose which one you use there. 

I've one more. This is kind of a joke. 

00:24:06 Cameron 

We might just have to use. them all we'll see. 

00:24:07 Chris 

Alright well. This is my last one. It's my last one. I was in a place where I was also overseas. 

I won't say where 'cause I don't even want to hint to this scenario, but I was overseas. I was working with a manager who was who was had...I came in as a speaker and they were managing. 

00:24:25 Chris 

I thought she was really adorable and I was single and I. I was hoping that maybe we could be friends and so I was putting on my best face and you know whatever and we were sitting at computers. 

00:24:30 Cameron 

Oh yeah, yeah. 

00:24:38 Chris 

And so I got a DUI in 2010. It was, you know, it was a was a horrifying experience. But I I basically haven't drank since then. I I did have one hiccup years back, but I've been sober for a long time now and oh. 

00:24:50 Cameron 

Good congratulations, that's a big deal. 

00:24:52 Chris 

Thanks, it's amazing. I that's why I'm, I feel comfortable telling the story, so we of course do the thing that younger people do and we start looking each other up. 

But we Google each other names on the Internet and all of a sudden it dawns on me that like one of the first pictures. Time that was popping up of me was my mug shot I looked as bad as you can look when you get a DUI mug shot, you know so we didn't end up being that good of friends and. 

00:25:21 Cameron 

She judged you for that. 

00:25:23 Chris 

Probably helped me to get sober and stay sober and grateful for that journey, but so those are my three. That's it.