Write the Book That Builds Your Brand: Amy Vogel on Publishing in Your 40s | #219

Want to write a book but don’t know where to start, or whether to self-publish vs. traditional? In this episode of Second Act Success, host Shannon Russell talks with Amy Vogel, who went from tech sales and then spent years as a pastor before publishing 5 books and now working as a women’s book coach. 

If you are thinking about turning your story into a brand-building book that clarifies your message, motivation, and mindset, this episode is a must listen.

Amy shares her journey to publishing her first book at age 42, why more women are choosing self-publishing, and how a book can become your business centerpiece, instead of a stressful side project. If you’re a midlife creator, coach, consultant, or entrepreneur ready to finally write your book, this conversation is your roadmap.

Key Takeaways:

• Qualified to author: Why your lived experience is enough, and why 40s/50s is prime time to publish.
• Publish path 101: Clear pros/cons of traditional vs. self-publishing, costs, timelines, rights, and royalties.
• Brand centerpiece book: Use your book to drive clients, speaking, and programs, not just royalties.
• The 3 M’s Framework: Align Message, Motivation, and Mindset to finish the manuscript.
• Accountability wins: How coaching, deadlines, and a plan get you from idea to finished draft.
• Vision > hustle: Define your success metrics and avoid burnout while you build your author platform.

SHOW NOTES:

https://secondactsuccess.co/219

Connect with Amy Vogel:

https://www.amywvogel.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/amywvogel/

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Transcript

Second Act Success Career Podcast

Season 1 - Write the Book That Builds Your Brand: Amy Vogel on Publishing in Your 40s | #217

Episode - #217

Host: Shannon Russell

Guest: Amy Vogel

Transcription (*created by Descript and may not be perfectly accurate)

[00:00:00] If you want to write a book, you need a coach that's in your corner. Today I am chatting with Amy Vogel. Amy began her career in tech sales. She became a minister and then she became an author at the age of 42. Amy now has five published books and she is a women's book coach. Amy is dedicated to empowering women to share their stories, helping them cast a vision for a better world by turning their publishing dreams into reality.

Are you ready to quit your nine to five job and start a business of your own? Well, you're in the right place, my friend. Welcome to the second Act Success podcast. I am your host Shannon Russell, and my mission is to help you produce your best life. This podcast will teach you how to get from where you are now to where you want to be and how to build a business that fits your life and lights you up.

Let's get started.

Amy Vogel, thank you so much for being here. I'm [00:01:00] so excited to talk to you about all of your acts leading up to now in your career. How are you? I'm great. I'm great. Thank you so much for having me. I love being a guest on podcast especially for, for women who are thinking about their story, thinking about what is next for them. And that's what you're all about. So I'm looking forward to this. Thanks. Yeah. And, and you have so much to offer, especially for any listeners who are thinking about writing a book, and how it's never too late to do that.

But let's start off with where your career first began. Way back in the nineties when I graduated from college, I graduated with a, , pre-med degree and that was when pharmaceutical sales was really blowing up. So that was my idea. I didn't wanna go to med school.

So I got a job as an IT recruiter and my dad was horrified. He was like, you're taking a draw, you're actually paying to work there. But , he went with it. And, it ended up being a really successful career. , I'm a natural in sales, know, recruiting is.

Basically selling people [00:02:00] for positions to companies. So I did that for five years, got married, decided that, , the.com bubble was about to burst, so tech companies were. We're better to work for rather than recruiting and the compensation , was lessening, especially on my side.

I was doing full-time placement. So I went into technology, sales, learned the ropes, spent, two or three years in inside sales, then moved into outside sales. And then by that time I had two little girls and I did not want to be away from them for the best part of their day.

Right. , I realized that one day I was like, I get them when they're tired in the morning and then in the evening. And so, it took about 18 months for things to work out, but I eventually started staying home with them and I ended up being home with them for. Nine-ish years. In that time I figured out I needed something for myself.

, I'm Gen X, so you know, we were raised to bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, you know, do all of those things. But I, I knew I needed something for myself I was driving [00:03:00] everyone crazy. While my girls were napping, 'cause they were still little at this time, I just started writing a blog.

This was in my mid thirties I didn't really think it was gonna go anywhere. Then I was very involved in the church where we were, and they started asking me to write Bible studies and leave bible studies. It's funny how when you're in sales and used to presenting people pick up on that and invite you to do those things.

So things evolved. Without me even realizing it. I recently wrote a chapter for an anthology. That's kind of my. , A little bit autobiographical kind of my, my journey and I called it Holy Stumbler because I, I tend to stumble into the things that I'm meant to be doing. And it's true. It's true.

That's a great gift. Yes, exactly. And so, um, you know, we were joking before, I'm not in my second act. I'm about at my fourth or fifth act, something like that. So I got into writing and then when, , we were living overseas at the time, and so when we got back to the states. Got settled. We had some family, , stuff that we had [00:04:00] to work through.

And then I got connected to the church that I ended up going on staff and becoming a pastor for, so I spent 10 years doing that, still writing, published my first book, and then in 2022. As the result of several different things, including the pandemic, that church closed its doors.

I was burnout, I was depressed. Ministry is, is a hard, hard road, especially for women. And so I knew that, but it was all in service for the greater good. And yet in the midst of that, I realized that that really wasn't what I was supposed to be doing and I needed to take a break from it. So I did.

Then I was like, well, I've got one book that's been published and I was writing two more. , Continued to write. That was a very healing practice for me I have lots of projects, but, I decided, well, I'll just start a company. I'll publish my own books, hopefully help other people publish, and I'll speak. I've been on stage for the last 10 years. I might as well, you know, go forward with that. [00:05:00] And the coaching, again, I kind of stumbled into it, and so now what I'm doing is.

Is obviously continuing to evolve 'cause you never stop. But, , it's the culmination. This fourth or fifth act that has been built by the other things that I've done over the course of my life. Everything sales, the pastoral side, the writing. Just being a mom, I mean, goodness gracious, when I work with clients, that empathetic ear, , goes a long, long way.

But also the business acumen, you have to have that too to help people understand what they're doing in publishing and what they've got to do with the book. It's all kind of. Culminated into this and, and now it's taking on its own, its own life. So I write books and I coach women to write their own books, specifically brand centerpieces like your book That really sets up what you do as a coach, what you do in the world, what you're here to offer, the world. And, you know, writing a book is something that. For anybody thinking about it, it's gonna clarify your [00:06:00] message, it's gonna clarify your motivation, and it's gonna clarify your mindset.

Everything else has to go away. If it's not aligned with what you're trying to do in the world, I love this and I love that you, you kind of. Did what I like to do and take that thread all the way through and you explained it. You explained how your sales helped you build your business and , knowing that business acumen and taking it with you and speaking on stage as a pastor, and it's all culminated into what you're doing now and that's incredible.

That's what I like to inspire people to really take that look of what their life has been like, what they have accomplished, all their past experience and say, where can this lead me to next? Because you might not be where you are if it wasn't for all of those pieces absolutely. nothing is wasted. Absolutely not. The good, the bad, the ugly, the wonderful, the, the shocking. Nothing is wasted.

Especially for women who are in their forties and fifties and just of my generation, we.

We were raised to do it [00:07:00] all, but we've realized we don't want to do that. What we wanna do is make an impact. We wanna do less with more impact and it's just a fascinating place to be, to see so many women coming into their own and setting up the next generations to. follow their dreams and follow 'em in a way that is not backed by Hustle and Grind.

There's still a lot of hustle. There's still a lot of grind, but that can't define what we're doing. And that's a big piece of what I coach too, especially in publishing. Success is typically defined by book sales and royalties. And what I tell people all the time, like every day, is that you get to define, especially if you're self-publishing, you get to define how you are successful and that will continue to evolve.

I'm on that journey myself, so as long as things are, are actionable and reasonable and doable, but still a stretch, you are going to feel a sense of accomplishment and that's going to want to keep you persevering and keep going to [00:08:00] whatever the next is. Yes. And it's figuring it out and it's always being open to the opportunities that are around you.

Yeah. And I just wanna take it back to when you decided to be that stay at home mom for your girls. You said you started writing because you needed something for yourself. Yes. And how did that come about? How did you know it was writing? Had you written before or was that just like your outlet, your hobby at the time?

It was really a hobby. I'd always enjoyed writing and I was a voracious reader. Mm. I read constantly. , In fact, in that transitionary time after the church closed, that's all I did other than take care of my family and work out and take care of myself. That's how I recovered. I read 77 books and a a five month window.

and then I was like, you know, I think I can do this. I'd only written nonfiction up to that point, but I was like, I think I wanna try this fiction thing. , I was always a, a reader and blogging was a very big thing back in the mid to late two thousands, so 2008 ish time.

So blogging was something that was very familiar to [00:09:00] a lot of people. So I just was like, you know what, let me document. And if it's just my mom that reads my blog, oh, okay. You know, let me just document what our daily life is like and. That was, that was the crack in the door that got me exploring my own creative written gifts.

I was always very good speaking wise, but, , as far as writing, it was finding my voice, finding what I enjoyed writing, finding how that flow worked with me and not trying to force it. It took me a long time to figure that out, but I stumbled into it. I just decided to try it out.

And that's part of my personality too. I just, you know, let's just try things and see what happens. No regrets. But I love that that was the crack in the door, as you said, because it's. It's almost like you have to publish that first blog or make that first vulnerable post on social media. Just get your thoughts out.

And for people who haven't done that before, who aren't like you and I running an online business, to just do that and say, wow, that felt good. I feel more confident. [00:10:00] What else can I do next? It just opens that creativity and. You feel that confidence, it says, let me write that next thing. Let me, share what I'm thinking to others in a different way.

Let's talk about your first book then. What age were you when you published your first book? Oh goodness. 42. Really? Oh wow. Okay. So yeah, like I published mine just recently and I'm in my forties, so yeah, 42, 43. Yeah. Somewhere. Yeah. , And like I said, I have lots of unfinished projects.

Yeah. My first book that was published and, and here's the lesson, and I've told the story a bunch, but that was the first manuscript I ever actually finished. Wow. And I had, and, and I had. Prayed and I had to ask God to help me with the business side 'cause I knew I could go bananas on the business side, but it was the creative and finishing something I knew I struggled with.

So it just kind of fell into my lap that I got connected with the publisher and again, I stumbled into it, but I [00:11:00] had to finish that manuscript to present it to them, for them to say yes. That was the lesson that if you're, if you're dragging your feet on it, yes, you've gotta start, but you also have to keep going.

That that first project is critical and sometimes you have to make the investment to have people help you finish it. Which is why I have a coaching practice., Because not everybody is that self-motivated and that driven or has the time or the capacity, any number of things. You have to believe in what you're doing.

And that the message is important. Yes. And that it, it will make an impact that this is out in the world. This will be in the world to serve the people. And That's a core tenant of what I believe in. That really you can help people and you can make money doing it. There's nothing wrong with them being mutual exclusive.

, And I can say that being in, in ministry for 10 years when it was all about just. Do it for the Lord. Yeah, you don't need to be paid, just do it for the Lord. So, there, there is a value, there is an [00:12:00] intrinsic value and a message that people need to hear. And now is the time truly for women. so your first book was traditionally published.

And I'm wondering mm-hmm. The fact that you had a publisher and you had to finish that manuscript is if that's what drove you and if you were going to self-published, if you would've finished. , I don't know. , Self-publishing is daunting.

I've done it four times. But my first book, , with it being traditionally published, that was the best path for me. Mm-hmm. Because I didn't know what, I didn't know. Oh, yeah. The reason why then I went forward with self-publishing is because I, I dipped my toe in the water and I wanted to figure it out.

I wanted to be in this industry of publishing. If you are running a business, if you are doing something else with your time. Let somebody else help you figure out the nuances and the, the currents of publishing, because it's like any, any industry, you, you have to know what you're doing.

And so for me, that experience of having my first book traditionally published, even though they [00:13:00] passed on my second book, I did propose my second book to them and they passed. I've heard that time and time again from others. Yeah. And, but I knew when I hit send on that email, that proposal to my publisher, that I wanted to self-publish it.

That I wanted to own it this time around. So there's, there's so many different ways to being published, and I'd love quoting this statistic that 67% of self-published authors are women, because there still is a barrier to entry in publishing. There are only so many traditional publishers. There are only so many.

So if you really wanna get your work out there in a timely manner. Self-publishing is the way to go. It's completely different than it was a decade ago. And you just said what was key for me in deciding to self-publish is the timely manner. For me, and I've said this on the podcast, I wanted to write fiction and so I was taking online course to figure out how to write and then I said, well, that's not gonna help me with my business.

And I have so much that I can help women with. As far as starting businesses and starting [00:14:00] their second act that I wanna write a nonfiction and really take what I coach and put it into a book. So I shifted gears, wrote my nonfiction, and I didn't want to do the query letters and send out and waste that time because I knew it can help others.

So I said, let me self-publish, and I went down that route and I ended up hiring a team to help me. Much like you, Amy. This was before I knew you. Right. But yeah, like, but for me, like you to touch on something you said earlier, it was needing that accountability partner and I had no clue what it meant to get this book out there.

And I knew if I didn't invest in myself and having someone help me along, it would never get out. Yeah. So that's the way I did it. And I think I would like to try traditional next, but you just don't know. But the timely manner, I think is something for people to think about. Do you want it out soon? Do you want to wait a few years?

I love that you know both And you can coach people on both.

It's funny, it's like, I, I tell people like, you can either invest in the front end in [00:15:00] self-publishing and, and hiring a coach or hiring a hybrid or , all the services that a traditional publisher will give you, but you're still gonna pay for that traditionally published because they own the right steer book and you're only gonna get about, if you're lucky, a dollar a book.

That's what I make on my first book when every I've sold over, 2000 copies of it. Over the last seven years that it's been out. So do the math. I've made $2,000 on it. I've made more than that this year on my self-published books. , Just because I own the rights to it. I, I own everything.

Really, you're either gonna pay upfront , and I love what you said, you made the investment in yourself because that, that whole erroneous idea that traditional books are more legitimate. All the same services are available now to self-published authors. You can have a fantastic book, fantastic cover, fantastic formatting, all the things that are appealing in a book.

Fantastic, well-written content., It doesn't [00:16:00] have to be through a company. You're literally gonna pay either way. it's just. What you wanna do and what you're being led to do.

And you really have to listen to your intuition on that. So great job listening to your intuition and getting it out there. And here's the other thing I tell people, you still, whether you self-publish or traditional publish, you are still responsible for selling the book. Oh yeah. You have to have a platform.

And obviously the traditional publishers are gonna look at that. The stories we hear, especially, you know, thanks to Book Talk and the Pandemic and you know, there's no such thing as an overnight success. You have to be positioned for that. . People that, went viral and especially in the fantasy world.

Sarah J. Moss, , in the romance Ali Hazelwood that were picked up by readers, they'd been writing for years, they had a backlog. It's just one of those things that. You have to have yourself positioned no matter what you do. It's not a strategy to go on social media and post your book every day.

That's not a strategy. There's [00:17:00] so much that goes into it. It's a business. And that's why I love that we're talking about this. Having a book is meant to drive your business, not just you be a slave to the marketing of your book. So yeah. It's so true, and it's like what we were joking about off camera earlier is that, you know, unless you're James Patterson or someone that's huge, that gets paid to write these books and then have a whole team to promote it and all of that, that's just not realistic.

You may not make. A great amount of money or even your money back on your book. But if you want to say in your second act, or third or fourth that you want to be an author, if this is a dream you've had and you want to write it, I still say go for it. Don't do it as a money maker. Right.

You know, and if it's you're writing nonfiction 'cause it's gonna support your. Business and what you are promoting to your clients, that's one thing. Or if you just wanna write fiction because you are a reader and you've enjoyed it and you wanna say that you've done it, that's okay too. It's just making sure that you are not going to regret [00:18:00] not writing that book at the end of your life.

Absolutely. And I would say too, you can make the money back on your book. You just have to have a strategy for it, and you have to have a wider lens. Mm. It can't just be about book sales and royalties. Like for you, it, you make your money back by clients signing up with you, by people signing up for online courses and online program.

It just has to be a wider lens. And so many people just have that narrow the blinders on that it has to, I, I'm only gonna make my money back on my book if my book makes money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. That's not how I'm in the black. That's not how I'm successful. No. Same thing. One day.

One day I will be, but that it's a, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Yes. So as long as you keep things in perspective, and I, I talk about this a lot too. The strategy behind a book is actually a vision. It's a business plan, whether it's fiction or nonfiction. If this is something you wanna do, if, if you just wanna write fiction because you love fiction, do [00:19:00] it.

Oh my gosh, do it. Writing is so necessary and such, such a healing activity. but if this is something you, that you really want to enhance your life, then you've gotta treat it, you've gotta handle it differently than it is just a book. There's definitely a vision that's necessary behind what you're doing, and then that gives you the ability to persevere and, and to continue in the long run.

So, because you just never know. You don't never, and I think like I wanna speak to the woman who might be listening to the show right now, listening to our conversation, who just needs something for herself, which was how you began. Mm-hmm. And just needs that outlet to be creative. And for me, when I started writing the book, and I've always written, I've written for television in my first career, written for my blogs and all of that, but sitting down and really.

Getting creative and forming the story and putting it together became such an incredible hobby for me. Where for my kids, I would say, okay, I'm gonna go write for 90 minutes [00:20:00] every Monday evening, you know? And they knew that I was gonna close the door, and when I would get in there. Alone with my thoughts.

There was something so creative and it just became something I looked so forward to. And I think there's women who are just looking for that. Escape something that's them. And it's okay to just write for fun too. You never know where that will lead. And I think that's important. And that's how you began.

And now look at you having, how many books do you have out now? I have five out. That is amazing. Five books and a business. I guess I wanna just say that it doesn't have to be all these books and a business, it's just starting somewhere and being open to see where it leads. Exactly. I I had no idea that I was gonna end up here.

I didn't even know when I started my company in January of 2023 that it would lead here. I had no clue. And so having that receptivity to what? What could be is really, is really amazing because, you know, when, when I work with clients, we always goal set. Yeah. We always strategize. We always have a [00:21:00] vision.

And it's so funny because every single time I tell them, we're gonna go with these goals, but they're too small, you'll see that they are too small., When I partner with an author, it's usually a year long partnership. It's one of those things where it's, , you start somewhere and then over the course of the year, your mind just gets blown because when you start getting in alignment, when you get that message, that's clear.

You can tell I'm a former preacher because I use alliteration a lot. Your motivation, your message, and your mindset get clear when those three things are are in alignment. Mm-hmm. And that's where you're, the place you're moving from. Stuff just starts coming to you.

Little by little things start to build and it's just you, you can try to have all the foresight in the world, but you're taking a leap of faith and jumping into the void and you just have to trust that there's, there's gonna be something on the other side that catches you. Which is generally you, your future self is gonna catch you.

I love that. That just gave me [00:22:00] chills. When you decided, okay, I've written these books, now I'm going to start coaching others, what did you have to shift in your mindset to say, okay, now I'm going to help others and be this business leader, doing this. Were you worried that you would lose the creativity in writing as an author?

So that's been something I've kind of figured out along the way. The more clients I get, the more reading I'm doing, the less pleasure reading I'm doing. and the pleasure reading, because I've gotta do research and I've gotta hone my craft and that kind of thing. That's not fun reading, right?

That's not pleasurable reading. , But I'm also very bougie when it comes to books. I can't just pick up any book off the shelf and enjoy it. It's something that has to be real well written for me. And so I've had to navigate that, you know, the, the balance of it, that when I'm writing I'm, I know I'm gonna be reading a lot of client work and it's early writing.

I'm reading what's called zero Drafts. Yes. So I'm not reading the finished product. Right. I'm [00:23:00] not reading the one, the, the manuscript that's been edited three times. I'm reading the raw material. And so it's been really, really interesting for me to have to, especially now I'm writing my sixth book. I'm almost done with the, the zero draft of it.

It's been real interesting to. Try and figure out because my coaching practice has picked up where in my life I need to do that creative work because I can tell you, I know the days it's been a couple of days since I've written , today is one of those days I have a greater.

Thro of anxiety because that creative energy has built up within me. Mm. And I need to let it out. And so this is something I would say too for women is, you know, we are born to create. That is what we are here on earth to do. So if you're struggling with anxiety, you literally might just need to create something that doesn't have to be writing.

It could be painting, it could be whatever. It could be cooking, just something you love to do. Something that. Pours back into you as you [00:24:00] pour it out. Um, that, that helps a lot with anxiety because you are then channeling the gifts you've been given. Every season is different.

And so in writing there's no perfect time to start writing your book. I, I wrote. Three books , in the middle of a divorce. But, you just have to go with that flow and you have to get to know yourself well enough to say, okay, I recognize I need to, like you would sit down that Monday for 90 minutes and just let it flow.

Whatever came out you, you let it go. And so. It's, it's a journey and that's the most important thing to remember is that who knows what, what's going to happen. Yeah. Four years ago, I didn't know what was, what was gonna happen. No. Three years ago, I didn't know what was gonna happen. I'm, I'm along for the ride just like everybody else, and I get a little more experience every day and so I can kind of try and like.

Direct things, but in the end it's, you [00:25:00] know, it's, yeah. It's all up to somebody else. Yes, you're absolutely right. It's amazing that you took something that you were so passionate about, reading, writing books in general. You created a business. Around it, helping others, and you're still able to write like, so you're really taking everything that you're truly passionate about and putting it into this second, third, fourth, fifth act of yours.

Yeah. And that's an incredible feat to be able to be in this position. how does it feel to be where you are right now? It feels really truly wonderful. I love what I do. And I can trend towards workaholism.

I mean, that's the reason why I was burned out after I was in ministry. Yeah. Is because I would work all the time. Especially when it's something that you really love to do. But I feel like all the pieces with this are in place now. And so, and, and also knowing that I have to be in balance. I, I think about this, I would be a terrible coach if I didn't keep writing, if I didn't keep my skills sharp and help people and just, you know, , if I wasn't learning [00:26:00] and continuing to grow, but, , it really feels like, you know, at 50 years old I have like. I have the foundation, it was all necessary.

Nothing was wasted. and I lived into every single one of those seasons. And now, now I'm, I'm able to truly own it. And that's why I think women in their, you know, their forties and fifties are really coming into their own because they recognize and, and are able to own it. , Our energy isn't going everywhere into everyone else.

We're able to say, you know what, it's my time now. Beautifully said, and I think also if we can find something that we enjoy some passion of ours and make that into something that brings us money as well. It's like you said, that is the key for anyone if it's, you know, teaching art classes, if it's teaching dance, like whatever it is that you really love.

If you can find a way to make money and create a business around it, that's the key to really feeling like you're not working you're doing what you love and what you're good at, and sharing that [00:27:00] with the world. , I tell my kids this all the time, I love what I do. And also there are days when I'm like. I can't wait till it's Saturday and I can sleep in.

that's the beauty of being your own boss though, is and there's something about that at this stage in our lives that we can say, we're making this happen because this is where we're at.

We're not listening to anyone else, and this is truly the place that we're supposed to be.

We can't continue to let. Other people's expectations, our own shame, our own programming, and our own egos get in the way of what we're here and meant to do. It's 2025 ladies. It is time to stop playing small.

Well, so for anyone who's listening and wants to work with you, where can they connect with you?

 if you want to talk to me personally, anything about my books or look at what I offer, most can schedule a call. , for free discovery calls. 'cause look, let's just talk about story. I just wanna do that. And then of course I'm on social media, on Instagram and TikTok. I'm on LinkedIn too, but much, much more on [00:28:00] Instagram.

So that's @awvogel on Instagram. And then everywhere else in EW Vogel. So fantastic. I'll link to everything. And tell us about your book that you're writing now what can we expect from that when that comes out? Yes. Number six. Book number six. It is called Jeed. It's a historical fiction and it is also a blend of my past.

I loved studying the Old Testament as a pastor. Love leading bible studies. , A couple years ago, it occurred to me that, , this new feminine expression that we're going through right now, that maybe some of the women in the Bible got a bad rap. So this new book is a retelling of Queen Jezebel from the Old Testament, who is typically portrayed as a, a big, bad villain.

And I'm retelling her story as the hero. And so it's, it's my brand centerpiece book. It is really, the thing that's gonna define me that at this moment in time is, is that culmination of, of my past into the present and it's been a lot of fun to write 'cause [00:29:00] I know it's gonna push a lot of people's buttons, but it's also, especially for women who have deconstructed from church hurt, it's gonna give them a lot of hope.

I'm big on changing the way the world sees women. . And so this is, , this is the next effort in that, that mission. It sounds incredible.. And I'll make the caveat, this is not a Christian book. This is a spicy historical romance. It's not smud, it's not on every page. But you know, women, part of being a woman is owning our sexuality. And so that's part of the story too. So when I tell people that, they're like, but this is about the Bible.

I'm like, yep. Amy, this was fantastic. I loved hearing your whole career transition story from way back when, till now in the business that you're, you've built and your career as an author. So congratulations on all of it. Yes. Thank you so much. I'm really honored to to have been a witness because we started talking before your book ever came out, and it wasn't even like I was pitching you.

I was just like, oh my gosh, I love your cover. I love what you're doing. Let's stay connected. So yeah, I'm so happy that we have this friendship and that we can [00:30:00] support each other and I'm so excited to get this out to everyone, and thank you so much for all you've shared. Absolutely. Thank you.