The World According to Jen & Carolyn
The World According to Jen & Carolyn is a podcast where history, politics, psychology, and humor collide in unexpected yet brilliant ways. Hosted by Jen, a community servant with a sharp wit and a knack for digging up the historical receipts, and Carolyn, a licensed marriage and family therapist who expertly unpacks the psychological layers behind it all, our show offers listeners a smart, hilarious, and refreshingly real conversation between two friends with 25 years of stories and opinions to share.
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The World According to Jen & Carolyn
Spotlight Right: Celebs Turned Conservative
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Join Jen & Carolyn as we dive into the intriguing world of public figures who have recently veered toward conservative, MAGA politics. From Hollywood stars embracing Republican identity, to Gen Z influencers mobilizing youth conservatism, we'll unpack why these shifts matter and what they reveal about politics, fame, and identity.
FOX 4 News Dallas-Fort WorthNew York Post
Wikipediathepoliticswatcher.com
Eyal, K., & Cohen, J. (2006). When good friends say goodbye: A parasocial breakup study. Journal of Broadcasting & Electronic Media, 50(3), 502–523.
Gabriel, S., & Young, A. F. (2011). Becoming a Vampire Without Being Bitten: The Narrative Collective-Assimilation Hypothesis. Psychological Science, 22(8), 998–1002.
Gabriel, S., et al. (2008). Parasocial Relationships and Well-Being. In L. J. Shrum (Ed.), The Psychology of Entertainment Media: Blurring the Lines Between Entertainment and Persuasion.
Mason, L. (2018). Uncivil Agreement: How Politics Became Our Identity. University of Chicago Press.
American Psychological Association (2023). Stress in America™ 2023: A Nation Recovering but Not Recovered. Washington, DC.
Cohen, J. (2004). Parasocial breakups: Measuring individual differences in responses to the dissolution of parasocial relationships. Mass Communication
You're listening to the world, according to Jen and Carolyn, a show about football. Ha ha ha psycho. And happy Labor Day. What's up? Thank you, thank you to organized labor for not just this long weekend, but the weekend in general. A lot of folks don't know that if it weren't for the effort of organized labor, like a hundred plus years ago, we would not have the eight-hour workday or the weekend. So I say this not just because I am invested in and a part of the labor movement, but because I recognize that we all benefit. There's also, as far as I'm concerned, no such thing as unskilled labor. So for the folks who are working today to bring you your food, whatever the case may be, I work today. You work today today. That was definitely skilled labor, right? The people we got groceries from Safeway. They're all union, they're working hard. You know, they make my life easy. I order my groceries online, I roll up, I pick shit up. Easy. Yay for my working mom ass. So thank you, workers. But we're gonna talk about you know, we've been doing a lot of heavy shit, right? Like we're about to drop the Epstein one this week, which is about as heavy as you can get. And so we thought that we could make fun of some quote unquote celebrities who are like ultra-right wing mega freaks.
SPEAKER_01I love how you did the air quits with celebrities. Because some of these, to me, half of them I didn't know because I'm just not like in that world.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, some of them are influencers, right? We don't, we're not even connected with a lot of influencers that are, you know, supporting messages that we agree with, let alone like weird right-wing shit. And so there's that. But you know, we wanted to dive into the intriguing world of public figures who have recently veered toward conservative, conservative mega politics. So we've got Hollywood stars who are embracing Republican identity, like we said, Gen Z influencers who are mobilizing young conservatives. So we want to unpack why these shifts actually matter and what they reveal about politics, fame, and identity. Because it's easy to just laugh off these D-listers who show up at the RNC, R.I.P. Hulk Hogan. Um, you know, people like that that were like, okay, whereas at the DNC, we've got like Beyoncé and all these like celebrity. Totally, totally. Uh, not kid rock. So we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_01He had a time. He had a time.
SPEAKER_00He's always been to me, he's always been his character in Joe Dirt.
SPEAKER_01Oh, one of the hundreds of.
SPEAKER_00That is him in real life.
SPEAKER_01Can I ride in your car? Brandy!
SPEAKER_00Can I ride in your honey? I love that movie. That movie is absolutely amazing. Who's the other? Is it Dennis Miller who's the radio host in that? Isn't he a right winger? Okay, weird. I know. Weird. God damn it. So um, Carolyn, out of all of the quote unquote celebrities who have jumped on the mega crazy train, who's the one that you're most bummed out about?
SPEAKER_01Okay, this is, and this isn't because of my fiance, Wayne Gretzky. Oh yeah. That was his, and I remember I told my my fiance is a huge, like the biggest hockey fan ever. And this was a really hard one for him because I was like, he did this, and this is what happened. And he was like, Yeah, but no, there's no but the the score, and he's still the greatest of all time. I'm like, but this is what he said. Like again, this is the where it's like you and I have talked about this before. Like, I don't like Michael Jackson music no more. Right. Host like after party, not party at five, Jackson five. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00We're just, yeah, you gotta cut it off.
SPEAKER_01Uh, I never really loved Sylvester Stallone. Yeah. But that was kind of a hard one too. He's kind of weird with him.
SPEAKER_00Rainbow. Uh, don't stop or my mom will shoot. It's fucking real. Stelgetty. I love a stelgetty.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Uh, Dennis Quaid was a weird one for me, though. Because I always thought of him as just so like America Dad type.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's not Randy Quaid.
SPEAKER_01He's not crazy like his brother. So I thought that he was the sane one. Yeah. Apparently not. Well, and it just goes to show you, like, I don't know these people.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_01And we're gonna talk about this. Yeah. Like, I have no connection to them. No. I don't know them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's the thing about Americans. We we think we know these people because they come into our living rooms via our television. Surprise, they ain't your friends, bitch. So for me, and you 50 cent, like, I don't even know what's going on with them anymore. Like, I can't keep track.
SPEAKER_01No, and that wasn't we're and like I think with celebrities too, like, if you're you're gonna get money whichever side you go to.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and I also think, too, that for folks who, and we'll talk about this, like folks who are no longer being embraced by mainstream media are like, well, I better j like Russell Brand, right? Like now all of a sudden he's MAGA because he has all these um accusations of sexual assault. He's like, I know who will embrace me. I guess the party of sexual assault, right? The party who supports the president, yeah, who was actually convicted of sexual battery. Right. That's where I'll go. It's just kind of grosser now than ever before.
SPEAKER_01Because like if you're on that side, you're really like yeah, it's not like you'd be like, oh, I didn't know.
SPEAKER_00No, you have no morals and values. Yeah, everything's out in the open. So for me, Rob Schneider, 100% so sad that he became a nutcase and he's full-blown nutcase. He's like anti-vaxx and shit, too. Like he bums me out. He's from Pacifica. He's half Filipino. I love the hot chick. That's one of our favorite movies. I love Be Sun Deuce Bigelow. And he worked with um Adam Sandler. Adam Sandler. No, that's politics aside.
SPEAKER_01I kind of bummed Adam Sandler for putting him in there.
SPEAKER_00I know. I'm disappointed too. What are you gonna do? I don't know. I don't know. And I think he's also, it's not just his politics and his views. Like, I think he's he's gone off the deep end.
SPEAKER_01But his daughter never liked him. Remember what was her uh She's a singer, right? She's a singer. Oh, damn it. L King. Yes. And I like her. I love her. And I love her voice. Yeah, and where'd she go? I don't know. But then it was always a big thing where like she didn't want to be associated with her dad. And then it was like a thing where she was like, I don't like, there's some sh there's some shit there.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, when a daughter's not talking to their parents, anytime a kid doesn't want to talk to their parent, it's the parents' fault for the most part. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about some other notable celebrity cases. Now, this bitch has been all up in the media lately. Sydney Sweeney, she recently revealed she's a registered Republican in Florida of all places. We knew this. You know, that that uh party she had, or the party that she threw for like her mom or her parents or whatever, where there are all these people in MAGA hats. It's like, okay, I have some Republican family too, but I'm sorry, like if I'm a celebrity and like have democratic values, I'm gonna cut those people out of the video. Yeah. We're gonna act like y'all don't exist. Uh still love you, but yeah. I'll draw the line. You know, she started in a controversial American Eagle ad invoking Americana aesthetics, which were really like uh, why can't I think right now? Eugenics. Yes, like weird Nazi eugenics undertones. So, you know, her identity as a conservative was publicly publicly embraced by figures like Trump. I think she's on like hot conservative girl hashtags or some shit. She definitely does. And now we know who she is. So it's up to you.
SPEAKER_01Be who you are.
SPEAKER_00I have nothing to have a problem with that. Let's see how I know. Let's see how it goes for you. Yeah. Let's see how it goes. Yeah. Let's see what what side of history you end up being on.
SPEAKER_01So I never liked her. I hated her character on Euphoria. I never watched Euphoria. I've done enough drugs as a teenager. I don't need to be traumatized again. That's good. It's good. But you look at someone who does a show like that, yeah, and then you look at the other choices that they're making as an actor and actress, and it's like it's right, like I don't know. No, I think it matters. So who I don't know who Savannah Chrisly is. I didn't know who that was. Is that the Chrisly brother or the the preacher? And they have a show. Well, it's a realities person. I do know who this is. It's a preacher. It was like Chris knows best. It was a weird show, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, that should tell you everything you need to know. Yes. But this person endorsed Donald Trump at the 2024 Republican National Convention, and she reported losing business deals due to her support. Yes. Remains a vocal supporter, particularly around criminal justice reform. I wonder what she has to say about that, because on its surface, does not sound bad. Motivated by her parents' cause. I don't I don't know about her parents' case. I'm curious about that. It's funny to me too, like sometimes these right-wingers who support Donald Trump, like they have like a cause that they're attached to. And I'm like, but Donald Trump like hates his cause. Yeah, he doesn't want to do anything about criminal justice reform. He wants to execute people for no reason. So Gen Z influencers, there's somebody named Riley Gaines. I don't know if that's uh Joanna Gaines' something or other. Alex Clark, Xavier Du Rousseau, I don't know who these people are. But they're we're not cool. They're Gen Z voices who have coalesced around conservative messaging. So embracing Trump as a relatable figure. Uh, if you find that relatable, that's incredibly problematic. I can get down with somebody, well, I mean, I think it's sick but and greedy, but somebody who's like, oh, I think he's an idiot. Uh, he frightens me, but I care more about my money than I do about oh, anybody else in the world. That's it, I guess, right? I have no idea. So there's those folks, somebody named Linda Lee. She was a former Democratic fundraiser who turned Republican critic, labeling the Democratic campaign as misguided. So she now raises money for Trump and aligned efforts and endorsed far-right themes. Somebody named Brett Cooper, don't know who this is, young conservative commentator on Fox News. She launched her own show in 2025 openly supporting Trump. Oh, Gillian Michaels, I'm also sad about her. Because I always thought she was a weirdo. She's weird, but I'm also like super into fitness and like her helping people hit their goals and like becoming the best version of themselves. Though I know stuff's come out recently about we can't like her anymore, Jill. No, no, no, no. I'm saying I used to, but now that she's coming out and like this stuff, I can't. I can't. Like she was just on um, she was just on some show arguing it wasn't about whitewashing slavery, but rather challenging what she called overly negative portrayals of white people. It's like, sorry, sorry, sorry. That's what the streets said. It was all whitey. We gotta own this. Not only do we have to own these pieces of our history, but we have to acknowledge where this stuff is very much still alive. And oh, I don't know how we can be better. Maybe she's just been watching a lot of Prager University content.
SPEAKER_01Dude, I don't even know what that is. But you told me the new Sesame Street where slavery is not a big deal, Jen. Oh no.
SPEAKER_00In fact, they liked it. This is why we need PV. That just doesn't matter. They liked it. It actually protected them from freedom. We're protecting you from freedom. It's not fine, but it's just sick. It's it's such spin, it's such disgusting spin. Like that shit that I posted after, oh, I don't know, the last mass shooting where Fox News and other right-wing outlets were saying that Democrats saying thoughts and prayers are not enough was actually an attack on prayer. I'm like, whoa, the spin zone is alive. Yeah. I'm like, oh no, no. Those kids were praying, just like my kid does, every Friday at church with his classmates, and they were murdered because y'all gun nuts think that it's okay for people to own any type of firearm under the sun. I got into an argument with somebody on YouTube. Oh, we got some real weirdos coming out of the YouTube. Don't worry, we just have to establish our community there. Well, let me look at the case. Because they hide the comments because they're so rude. So you have to go to newest and then you can see them. And these people were splitting hairs over the fact that in my my diatribe about easy access to weapons, I said automatic instead of semi-automatic. I was like, you drunk nerves are all about splitting hairs. I'm like, who gives a shit? So I gave them facts about the AR-15 and that you have access to bump stocks in most states. I'm like, you know what a bump stock is? No. Well, the Supreme Court says it doesn't turn your semi-automatic weapon into an automatic weapon or a machine gun. So federally it's legal, but certain states have prohibited it. I'm pretty sure they're illegal here in California. Don't know for sure. But dude, anyway, splitting hairs. Yeah. Ridiculous. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. Gone off on that. We're gonna do a um a mean YouTube comments, all the mean tweets, Jimmy Kimmel style. Probably next week. I think we've got to be. Oh no. No, worse than that. Somebody told me to give myself an uppercut. Somebody told me to prostitute myself on the streets of Oakland. Um, oh God, there were there's tons. Wow. They're brilliant, really, really smart people. So, anyway, let's talk about Rob Schneider and what he's done. He was a registered Democrat from 1984 to 2013, and he switched to the Republican Party in response to his dissatisfaction with California's Democratic leadership. Then he became independent while leaning more conservative. And then in 2023, he endorsed RFK, which should tell you everything you need to fucking know. And then after RFK suspended his campaign, he threw a support behind Trump. Gross. We have Russell Brand. He was known for progressive commentary. I used to really like this guy too. Yeah. He's increasingly aligned with conservatives and alternative media. His stay free with Russell Brand, I've never even heard of this, moved from YouTube to Rumble after alleged censorship issues, placing him alongside right-wing figures like Donald Trump Jr. and Alex Jones. He's in that league now. He's all about like fuck anti-woke stuff, whatever. And again, he's been accused of sexual assault. Yeah. And um, yeah, and here's some other D-list losers. Amber Rose, whom I used to think was cool and gorgeous. Don't know what's going on there.
SPEAKER_01Wasn't it like Rob Kardashian? Oh God, maybe Amber Rose. Does she have a baby by him or something? I feel like I mean I used to back back when there wasn't as much shit to get angry about, and you actually could care about the Kardashians in the way that I feel like it's a good idea. I still don't. I was looking at John Voigt, so I don't. That's where that came from. John Voigt is a child. Oh, I knew he was too. I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00I don't think his daughter talks to him either. Yeah. And I think there's some allegations of abuse, but I'm not sure. Interesting. Interesting. So then we have, you know, Charlie Kirk, obviously, Dana White, Hulk Hogan, who passed away, and Kid Rock, who's a real piece of shit. He runs um uh uh UFC. Oh he's like one of those meathead morons. So not that I have I I mean, I love Rhonda Rousey, and until you tell me she's a right-winger, to me, she's just a busy mom who fights. Busy mom I wouldn't fuck with. So anyway, so this is scary for a number of reasons, but what's most frightening to us is what a 2024 Ash study finds in regard to how celebrities influence voting behavior in elections. So, according to the research by Harvard University's Ash Center for Democratic Governance and Innovation, there is rigorous evidence that celebrity voices are incredibly powerful in promoting civic engagement and altering polling numbers. So, Carolyn, are we witnessing a broader cultural realignment in which celebrity identity becomes a part of America's culture wars? Yes. My head just exploded, but I think I knew the answer. We're fucked.
SPEAKER_01So, mental health perspective, it's it's political theater, right? It's which politics is sure. There's a component. Absolutely. And but more so to your point, it's a shift in how people construct their own sense of self. Got it. Which I don't know. Well, before the whole Damien obsession, I would have not put you in this category. Oh, Damon obsession? Oh, it's not Damien. Sorry, it's the omen versus the vampire. Let's get our show right.
SPEAKER_00I know. But I always like you and I aren't really the type to be like that of if Damon had political views that were antithetical to my own, if they were ones associated with intolerance. Say, say Ian Ian Summerholder. His name is not Damon, it's Ian Summerholder. Excuse me. He has a real name. Um say he was like, I don't support trans kids. Or, you know, whatever. I'd be like, I can't, I can't. Right. I can't with you anymore.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, you and I don't, I don't think we get attached. Not like that. And even musicians, like, because that's kind of the closest. Like, I think of musicians more as celebrities to me than actual like celebrities. For the most part, yeah. And same thing where I just it's it, I don't feel like you and I share this sense, this like false identity where it's like really like enmeshed with us. Where we feel like we know the person.
SPEAKER_00Not really. Do they call you at home? No. No, they don't. Yeah. Some people get a little carried away.
SPEAKER_01I'm not saying we're better than everyone else, but some people think we're busier in reality. Yes. Um, but again, no, no shame in that. But I think that's how celebrities are identities are anchors for a lot of people. And I think when you're younger, but even when I was younger, I always thought that was weird. Like totally. I think friends who were like obsessed and like had, you know, it well, I can't say. I mean, there's some weird shit in my room, too.
SPEAKER_00But I oh no, maybe it was. I was upset with Fox Mulder and David Duca. Me too. And you know, Jim Carrey, I wore a locket around my neck when I was like 11. It wasn't gonna happen. I just like them.
SPEAKER_01It wasn't like I had friends who like really thought, like, oh, that's this was delusional. I remember my first teen client, yeah, like honestly thought she was gonna be with a Jonas brother. And like, that's all she talked about in sessions. And I was like, this is like I I'm not used to this.
SPEAKER_00There's you know, a certain level of imagination is cute with a young person. You're like, oh, you're so wholesome. But then you're like, oh, you're delusional. Whoa, we've crossed we've crossed the line here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So again, there's something in there's something in psychology. Um, it was researched by Ayal and Cohen. They sound Jewish, um, Israeli for sure. There are people parasocial identification. We've talked about this before. I can't remember which episode it was. I don't remember either. We've done so many. We've done so many. Yeah, they're all there for you. Yes. Um, but research shows that people form one-sided emotional bonds with media figures and bonds that feel just as real as friendships. So when someone like Sydney Sweeney reveals she's Republican or Russell Brand endorses Trump, fans react as if a close friend has either betrayed them or validated them. And this emotional intensity becomes extremely real, and psychologically, the relationship feels real. Not healthy. I'm just gonna say it's not healthy. So research from Shira Gabriel at SUNY Buffalo. Um, she talks about something called She also sounds like one of our people. She's definitely one of our people. Yeah. She's not named Shira. She's like the best Jewish name ever. Totally. Because Princess of Power. So she calls something called social surrogacy, is the her thesis. Um, but it she talks about how people actually will use celebrity, yeah, celebrity relationships to fulfill basic needs like belonging, self-esteem, and meaning. So again, we're talking about someone who draws all of their self-worth from a celebrity. Right. And I think again, when you see little kids doing this, like weirdly, I was obsessed with Hulk Hogan as a kid because I love WWE. We grew up with these things. It was cool. My kids obsessed with Taylor Swift. It was sweet. Yeah. But it was a way for my mom to be like, well, I bet Hulk Logan eats all his fat. So that's how he gets wrong. So like, it's not bad. I just, this is getting to the point where it's you're you're actually um when that political shift happens, it's not just a PR move, it actually disrupts fans.
SPEAKER_00Well, it has real life implications, right? Like these people, if they're 18 or over, are going out and voting on the basis of what a celebrity tells them. Not data, not statistics, not politicians, but celebrities.
SPEAKER_01Well, and when Oprah did this with Obama, yeah, they saw the polls increase, and we can all agree, like, oh, well, we like Oprah, although she did bring us a lot of the celebrities on this. God damn it, Dr. Phil, right? We can still love Gail, though, right? I think we can still like Gail. I think Gail's still all right. I think so. We love Glory. Yeah. Um, you know, so again, it's just it's it's it's not thinking about the impact you have on your fans. And so again, the layer on to the culture war. So political identity has become a super ordinant identity. Okay. And it's a lens that organizes everything. So it's a researcher by the name of Liliana Mason shows that when politics, social identity, and celebrity fandom overlap, the psychological investment is really, really high. Okay. And that's why these moments feel really, really charged. When you find out one of your celebrities, like, oh no, not him. And it's like, oh, but me and him. And oh, I thought he liked things I liked. Yeah. Okay. I was like, no, it's not true. Um, so the mental health stakes absolutely are real, and they're more real for young people. And again, that's all usually what we're talking about this shit. You and I can look at this as 40 something year old women and be like, oh, that's separate. But kids who grew up with the internet and who grew up with funds, it has very much changed how their brains are literally are.
SPEAKER_00That's the part of the problem that I think is really salient and very different. Like we would watch our favorite selection. celebrities on TV shows or movies. Now with social media, like they have access to content created by these people all the time all the time.
SPEAKER_01Well I remember love loving new kids on the block. Yeah. And I told someone like my favorite guy was Donnie Wallenberg. Yeah and Wahlberg. Make him hella Jewish. And my friend was like, oh he wears a peace, um, a peace sign on his neck, but like he's actually for this and this because she read in like a bot magazine. I was like the first to rock war. Right? Right? Or something like that. And she's like he wears a symbol that's not about peace. And I was like ah I just like him. He doesn't wear shoes sometimes. He shoes shoes. He shoes his is that the one uh Donnie was hot. Yeah Donnie not Marky Mark. Yeah he's his brother though.
SPEAKER_00That's his brother yeah and Donnie I think is on like SVU or one of those shows. One of those comp shows really and hyper chairs on the Stern show is obsessed with them.
SPEAKER_01Anyway that's a real aside but you know again it's just the the APA said that two thirds of um Gen Z adults say political tensions negatively affect their mental health. So when influencers and celebrities become political lightning rods it adds stress for everyone. Yeah. And fans ex fans experience what psychological psychologists call parasocial breakups. So the parasocial bonding that's happening right um it happens this is what happens usually when a celebrity dies and we grieve and we feel sad like when he's died parasocial breakup. It was a really I remember when I found out um David Bowie died.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I remember I like was like oh man that happened and I went down and told one of the other counselors and like she was like I can't hear that right now and like shut her door and was having like a full breakdown was like whoa oh man so sad parasocial breakup. Yeah. But you do actually go through genuine grief when a celebrity lets them down politically. And on the flip side fans who agree with their favorite celebrity get a surge of belonging validation dopamine all that stuff. So it's really upsetting for some people it's really grounding for others. Okay the paradox right and really disabling for other people but either way it shows how deeply our sense of self is wrapped into that phone and that identity and to the point where your phone is as much a part of a biopsychosocial assessment with me as asking about your sleep. I don't even care actually about those things as much. It's like let's look at your phone. Yeah and let's see how many hours you're using and what you're actually using. It it's harder than talking to people about sex. Oh I bet it's weird people feel dirty about it.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh they know they should not be I know I should not be on my phone as much as I am um and so it's embarrassing to be like oh this says that I'm you know on some sort of device and most of the day that's my computer. Yeah like nine hours a day. Yeah. Ten hours a day like that's a lot to be looking at any screen. Right.
SPEAKER_01But if you're looking at TikTok nine hours a day that's a bit different than like you can go app by app and see like where it's like oh you're actually reading political articles. That's true. That's a lot or listening to a podcast. Like they are part of our lives and that's a good thing. It can be good but it's a computer in our pocket. It's just a challenge I think for adults and people in positions to help and and teach to help young people and adults separate that sense of self and that identity from this device because it is extremely all of this is really destabilizing no matter how you look at it.
SPEAKER_00Totally and I think the the earlier we're able to intervene the more stable adults will be and and not allow this to control their lives to the extent that it it can for youth and adults alike. It's crazy. Hey Carolyn is that still recording try not to knock anything down we got a little ramshackle operation here but we've got some new lights still recording? Yay we got some new lights and no more harsh overhead light there'll be some updates to be we look better. I know the lights were half the lights were out in our bathroom office surprise government and people were like it's so dark in here I'm like I love it. It's one step away from candlelight can't see my fun lines so let's talk about what's driving this shift let's unpack key motivation. So there's identity and authenticity so many cite personal upbringing or sense of realness delusioned with mainstream liberal media sweeney embraces Americana Du Rousseau rejects performative activism. Lee likens democratic loyalty to a cult that's ironic uh then there's cultural resonance and brand alignment political identity can reinforce a brand look at Sweeney and uh invoking these nostalgic American aka white values of yesteryear like denim which is actually made by and for African American enslaved and and isn't the Levi family Jewish well and they didn't do it.
SPEAKER_01They just invented the rivets their patent is indigo and diets watch the documentary oh man I just forgot the name of it you'll have to tell me later I'm fascinated but yeah all Levi did was make rivets.
SPEAKER_00Oh he didn't make jeans jeans were already invented they were used to show the difference between enslaved and working class and rich and the indigo came from Africa and skilled workers knew how to do it and this this kid for her name but she uh basically stole that idea was like I invented that and that was that another thing white people stole god damn it yeah all right so there's that the brand alignment and cultural resonance economic and strategic benefits right like look at again Russell Brand losing traction let's go align with people that embrace my shitty values push back against cancel culture so many resist what they perceive as an ideolog I ideological policing. I think that's bullshit yeah like okay cancel culture can go a little bit too far we've talked about this we prefer callin culture yeah as long as the act isn't so egregious like pedophilia yeah or like oh I don't know what Harvey Weinstein did or rape. Yeah yeah totally there's no coming back from those things.
SPEAKER_01You're not punk rock because you're anti-establishment like that, right?
SPEAKER_00And it's not society's fault for saying they no longer want to watch your films Harvey Weinstein because you're a fucking rapist. Like you deserve to be canceled Bill Cosby I'm like naming all the rapists. But you know somebody who makes an offhanded comment just out of ignorance and need to learn more etc who says really fucked up like that was stupid of me. You know somebody who owns it yeah I have a lot of learning to do I'm like all right that's a jumping off point. Yeah we can talk. Yes I'm not gonna be like no never again I'm not that militant. No I and I think that a lot of folks on the right have a view of those of us on the left as being incredibly militant. It's like all my trans friends if I occasionally slip and use the wrong pronoun you've never had someone get upset with one of my best friends. I've known them for 30 years. They only transitioned within the last like five years. Occasionally I slip they don't they're not like oh you're yeah you know stop fucking up my pronouns like occasionally it happens. It's not coming from a malicious place. But I think a lot of people on the right are like oh we're gonna get vilified I don't think so no I think for the most part people are understanding. Absolutely they're trying every and every trans person I know makes fun of the ultra militant folks and it's like uh yeah no thanks. So and then again it could just be that these folks their souls are actually dog shit. So the politics of MAGA line up with who they are really like Russell Brand again this year. And let's talk more about these things that I've been alluding to British British police charged him with rape and sexual assault following an 18 month investigation sparked when four women alleged they had been assaulted by him. The alleged offenses involve four women and took place between 1999 and 2005 one in the English seatside town of Burnamouth and the other three in the Westminster area of central London. So you know whenever there's multiple women or people coalescing and saying like this happened to me at the hands of this person and they all have similar stories it's really unlikely that they're ganging up against you to ruin your career. That's just not usually how this stuff works. Yeah forgetting Sarah Marshall was like a really long time ago bitch. No I never even thought he was that funny. No definitely not it's the other people in that movie that make that movie amazing. So you know the cultural implications and risks so you know when you when you go super far right like this the emerging stars like Sweeney she risks alienating non-aligned fans and her political branding could backfire and we're actually starting to see that you know like I saw an HM article HM ad today that was like the antithesis of that ad. Yep it had adopted one too yeah and they're embracing diversity and people who aren't like you know you're you're you're not even from a marketing standpoint that doesn't mean people are gonna buy your product.
SPEAKER_01Right. Like they're actually it's it's yeah it it the people who want to do that will go support that. Yeah look at Target right I was gonna say we learned nothing from Target.
SPEAKER_00So you know there's that so you know the polarization of influence public alignment both energizes supporters and cements divisions. So shifting influence landscape traditional Hollywood influence is waning compared to social influencers like podcasters, YouTubers, new media personalities now drive political cultural sway. So even what we think about as celebrity has shifted significantly percent significantly uh there is a woman I actually love her this has nothing to do with politics but her name is uh Paige Spirnik she's a golfer she's also gorgeous uses erotic capital she has more followers on I think Instagram than Tiger Woods and she's actually good she's actually a really good golfer which is why I hate these fucking incels who talk shit about her in her golf game. Like she's talented she's awesome and she seems like a really good person who goes into schools and to events to talk about bullying and she just seems like a good person. But anyway more followers than Tiger's an actual professional golfer. She's never turned professional as far as I know. So you know this is from a Reddit thread Jake Paul, Joe Rogan, Elon Musk, they all backed Trump. So no celebrity influence in politics isn't dying social media influencers, YouTubers and podcasters are the new celebrities. Let's talk about the influence that social media has on politics a little bit more and voting habits. We've touched on this so you know we hate the term influencer but I think it's an important component in the grand scheme of things when it comes to our topic. Yeah. So social media is a major news source for voters. So as of 2023 about half of US adults say they get their news from social media at least sometimes I do I do I aggregate all of my news they all happen to be legitimate news sources but it's all aggregated through social media typically through Facebook. That's what I use primarily for that you know why it matters the news and political content people encounter on platforms like Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube can shape their political opinions and voting intentions. I watch the Lincoln Project and Rick Wilson on YouTube almost every fucking night. Yeah and I I'm politically aligned with him. Yeah if I weren't he wouldn't be changing my mind necessarily you know it's a the the the not confirmation bias but seeking out information that aligns with the way that we think to your point we every once in a while we do watch box or I do go on MAGA tickets just to see and I'm like yep yep still not no and I'm not we're never gonna change our mind when it comes to our core principles and values and philosophies. Yeah but on little things like somebody might be able to change my mind on something like oh I never thought of it that way. Yeah that's an interesting perspective but it's not going to be in the way that MAGA approaches things. So you know influencers can affect political attitudes and turnout. So this is a fact a 2020 study found that social media influencers can meaningfully affect young voters political attitudes and turnouts turnout intentions especially when perceived as authentic or relatable why does this matter as you said influencers have parasocial relationships with their audience that's why it matters people perceive these as real relationships. Influencer campaigns have measurable effects on voter turnout a randomized control trial during the 2020 election showed that influencer led voting mobile voter mobilization campaigns increase turnout among young voters by up to 1.2 percentage points that's actually significant. Why it matters even small increases can out outcome can impact the outcomes of elections yeah so you know all of this matters social media increases political polarization and selective exposure research shows that social media can amplify political polarization by showing users more content that aligns with their beliefs just what I said echo chamber. It's the algorithm yeah we just happen to love our echo chamber so you know Carolyn in regard to this latter point talk to us about the degree in which social identity theory explains the emotional reactions people have toward political content shared by influencers or peers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah and I mean again this is most worrisome for me for lonely males ages 12 to 20 something 18 maybe um you know again this is this is a big deal to you talked about the incels right yeah um yeah when influencers post political content this theory becomes predictive um and followers aren't just processing information they're having measurable neurological and physiological responses it it seems to not like I don't really think we've been taught the level to which our brain cells will change. Yeah like a drug adapt. Yes and until we start you know I was just reading something about the mommy brain and how your your brain post pregnancy has already it it structurally re it completely changes. It never went back it never goes back it's never goes still a mess yeah but you know it so it's it's very important that we really understand that this is a it's an organ and it's it's changing to adapt to the world around us. Yeah. And you know so this is where this systematic review of looking at over I love this the journal of medical internet research. Oh how cool of a journal is that very important 16 studies that found that social networking sites are linked to higher risks of we we know this depression anxiety physiological and psychological distress here's the kicker though positive interactions lower those risks okay so again I'm never gonna say it's throw the baby out with the bathwater you've said it internet giveth taketh away it's not all bad if you're watching things that are puppy videos or sometimes being silly or husband's doing dumb things it's funny like we get a lot of joy from this it's the same way you could say TV was bad for kids. And laughter's super important right if we're watching things that make us laugh and if it's between someone having no contact or this yes having that is wonderful but negative interactions and social comparisons always are going to raise them. So social identity theory explains why this happens so Henry Tajfeld and John Turner's classic work in the late 1970s shows that people automatically sort themselves into groups the in-group the outgroup yeah I I'd like to think at 43 I'm done with that but you put me in a room at like a conference and all of a sudden I'm like where do I fit in? It's a little less right but you know where the cool people are right human nature they're at the bar.
SPEAKER_00They're typically going to be at the bar. But I think it's just our nature to seek out people who appear like minded.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely yeah absolutely and so when Jake Paul and Amber Rose post something political followers aren't just reading content they're expressing and experiencing identity validation or threat on a neurological level. And you're gonna also what I think is interesting though is I mean we've seen this the the lengths people go to defend yeah I mean it's like all day people are talking about this stuff I might look at a post and say something snarky but like uh it's not worth my time most of the time unless I'm defending us. And so and even then I'll just your burns are sick. But brain imaging data actually is backing this up. So a study in Neuron by Kluch Karev and his colleague showed that celebrity endorsements activate the same brain ranges tied to reward learning. Another study in the Journal of Consumer Psychology by Burns and more found that this lights up areas connected to trust and memory for formation. So an influencer posts something that aligns with your politics and your brain is actually going to release dopamine. Wow crazy right and if it doesn't it's a threat detection that's going to kick in so again this is all uh polyvagal theory in action this is fight or flight nervous system stuff in action. So downstream effects are actually measurable too so a national study uh survey led by Brian Primack found in 2017 found that people using seven to 11 social media platforms had three times the odds of experiencing higher level of stress responses than people who had two or fewer. So then add in the parasocial relationships. So Horton and Wall wrote about this back in the 1950s what they called a parasocial interaction and more recent studies show people that talk about themselves 80% of the time on social media versus only 30% of the time in real life, which that makes sense because it's like Jen and I like we're talking about ourselves right and it creates what we what um has been called performed intimacy. I think again I know we talked about this in a prior episode. So favorite influencers take a political stance feels like a different opinion either feels like something's getting bolstered or something's getting busted. So if we zoom way out and we give you a World Health organization report um that problematic social media use among adolescents went from 7% in 2018 11% in 2022 higher in girls 13% compared to nine for boys. And I bet that number's off the wall now. Yeah so it doesn't just explain what we're seeing the social identity theory is going to predict it and influencers posting political content you and I always perform better when we post political content on TikTok.
SPEAKER_00Yeah I think it's one the world we live in two we're super passionate about it and three like my my academic background and my professional background are in that and you have the psychological lens. I haven't made it in the psych TikTok yet though. They haven't quite I gotta do more posts the crossover between politics and psychology I think is really important. And I think that's why this episode is you know fascinating because this really it it shows that crossover and it shows how how important uh for good or bad uh the influence of celebrity whether they be influencers or traditional celebrities for lack of a better word that impact on people and and for us we're always looking at young folks I think in particular one because there's that instinct to protect because you know their brains aren't completely formed. They don't they don't make great decisions. You're not supposed to make great decisions when you're a kid and so there's it's like the Jesuits get them while they're young. Like there's still time to to intervene and to maybe talk some sense into these kids around some of these these behaviors that could ultimately turn into a a bigger problem or prolonged problems.
SPEAKER_01Yeah you know yeah so I don't know you know I feel like the influencers used to for us were like our teachers though.
SPEAKER_00Like I think they had a greater influence when we were growing up because our our world of influence was so much smaller than it is today. And parents can't be everywhere no all the time. No. And so that's the hard part is you know now that that article that you know we're gonna do an episode on the whole AI thing I ended up and oh it's just heartbreaking. And it's like as if us parents didn't have enough to worry about as it was but now you you include this whole new phenomenon and it's like what am I supposed to do take away your computer it's the new predator though. It is it absolutely is my kids adolescence yet oh yes I did I did finish it. That last episode is hard it's very hard it's incredibly hard because that the kid there's there's no um he he definitely well I'm not gonna say anything I can't say anything because I want to ground a long time if you haven't watched it yet I want you all to watch it I'm not gonna ruin it for you but I think that that that show in particular in particular that last episode paints how challenging it is for parents these days to be everywhere at all times. And what did we do? And yeah and why this one and not this one and what yeah I know yeah and so this is again this this issue extends much further than just children adolescents you know young adults like this is something that impacts adults as well. Absolutely but if there is an opportunity to intervene and get kids to think more critically to get everybody to think more critically right like okay Sydney Sweeney like if you're out there actually you know giving any particular message around a particular policy like where are you getting your information Information from. Where did you learn about this? What's your background? What gives you the authority to speak on this? I'm not saying people can't have opinions just by virtue of being citizens of the United States. At the same time, like it's very important for me, and maybe this is because we're researchers, that uh the information I get come from somebody who knows what they're talking about. I'm watching James Carville at night. I'm watching Rick Wilson at night. I'm I'm listening to people who can give statistics.
SPEAKER_01There's an ethical side to our jobs and our interests that to me, the worst thing possible would be to not worst thing possible, but I don't want to give bad research. Yeah. So at least in conversation, like, hey, well, I read this today. I don't know if this is true, or you know, or here's what I've been reading, or this is what I've heard. You know, you don't want to be that person who is spouting things that just aren't true. So even when I read something, I've learned to like, where did it come from? Like all these things that we just we've just been taught. And and having, you know, again, it's just that's that's there's no ethics in acting and media. Yep. Right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, I I agree. And that's it's it speaks to a larger conversation, which we're not gonna have today, about the American education system and teaching people to discern fact from fiction and teaching people how to conduct proper research, what makes a viable source versus fake news?
SPEAKER_01And why would this celebrity be talking about this? What's in it for them? Right. Follow the money track. Always. Always.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, closing thoughts around this is you know, political identity is now performance and platform. And as entertainment merges with ideology, the stakes for celebrities get higher. So here's some questions to think about. When does political alignment enhance a celebrity's brand and when does it harm it? You know, will followers of these figures prioritize ideology over persona? Is the rise of influencer conservatism reshaping political outreach? Think about all these things, but also think I think the most important question to ask yourself when you're listening to somebody espouse a particular view is where is this information coming from? Can I substantiate this with fact? That's the most important thing. And I don't want to hear when you go when you respond back, hey, that's actually inaccurate. And here's here's the data to disprove what they're saying. Well, that's what they want you to believe. It's like Bitch Who's Day. I'm so tired of this. So there are certainly some people who will never believe, you know, uh quantifiable, like, you know, verifiable data. And that again goes back to the back. What happened to you? Yeah. What happened to you, dog? Anyway, are you okay? We hope you didn't you hope we hope you enjoyed this episode. It was supposed to be one of our lighter episodes, but I don't think anything is truly light with us. No. Maybe we'll bring you something lighter for the uh the Halloween season, right? It's happening. It's gonna happen. So anyway, we appreciate you listening. Follow us on uh where are we? TikTok. Instagram, TikTok. TikTok seems to be where we have our largest community, right? YouTube Tracy. YouTube, we're really trying to make a dent on YouTube. We need our army, we need our our our twat army. So if you're not subscribed there, please subscribe to the world, according to Jen and Carolyn, on YouTube and have our back. And it's also really entertaining to see just how disgusting and and depraved some of these comments are.
SPEAKER_01Some of our listeners, though, and our followers are so funny, though, and they'll comment back.
SPEAKER_00Well, on TikTok now we have this established community of almost 4,000 fellow, you know, progressives. TWAT. Yeah, fellow TWATs. And so when somebody says something half the time before we even have the chance to respond, they're all over this person.
SPEAKER_01And I love it. It's the best, it's beautiful.
SPEAKER_00It is truly what community or a type of community can be. And that's what matters. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. We'll see you soon. Bye.