The World According to Jen & Carolyn
The World According to Jen & Carolyn is a podcast where history, politics, psychology, and humor collide in unexpected yet brilliant ways. Hosted by Jen, a community servant with a sharp wit and a knack for digging up the historical receipts, and Carolyn, a licensed marriage and family therapist who expertly unpacks the psychological layers behind it all, our show offers listeners a smart, hilarious, and refreshingly real conversation between two friends with 25 years of stories and opinions to share.
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The World According to Jen & Carolyn
Is AI Coming for Your Job?
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On this episode, Jen & Carolyn ask the question on everyone’s mind: Is AI coming for your job? With rapid advances in artificial intelligence — from automated text tools to industrial robots — many workers are wondering if their livelihoods are safe. We’ll break down the facts, the fears, and the future — and help you understand what’s real and what’s speculation.
Equities close with slight gains as tech shares recover | Reuters
Dr. Jared Cooney Horvath, PhD, MEd — Written Testimony, U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, January 2026
The Digital Delusion: How Classroom Technology Harms Our Kids' Learning — And How To Help Them Thrive Again (2025)
Mark Manson, blog post — "The highest-leverage AI prompts do the exact opposite" (markmanson.net)
Holt-Lunstad, J. et al. (2010). Social relationships and mortality risk. PLOS Medicine.
U.S. Surgeon General Advisory (2023). Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation.
De Freitas, J. et al. (2025). AI Companions Reduce Loneliness. Journal of Consumer Research, Oxford Academic.
Fang, C.M. et al. (2025). How AI and human behaviors shape psychosocial effects of chatbot use: A longitudinal randomized controlled study. arXiv.
Pew Research Center — AI's Impact on U.S. Workers (Kochhar, R., CNBC/Pew, 2023)
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics — Job Openings in Professional Services, January 2025
American Staffing Association — White-Collar Job Seeker Data, 2024; cited in SalesforceDevops.net, February 2025
Dario Amodei (Anthropic CEO) — "White-collar bloodbath" warning; cited in Axios, May 2025
LinkedIn Chief Economic Opportunity Officer Aneesh Raman — on entry-level career ladder collapse; cited in Medium/Gorsht, September 2025
Polyvagal Theory — Stephen Porges (nervous system as biological imperative)
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/something-big-happening-matt-shumer-so5he/
This is the world according to Jana Carolina.
SPEAKER_01What's up? Hi, friend. It's a beautiful Sunday. It actually is. The sun is shining. We have quite a weekend. Yes, the sun is shining. The Supreme Court ruled against Trump. And didn't he just raise something again today? He did. He went in and see this is where I need to go in. Yeah, and look at like the constitutionality of the ruling. And it was funny too. And I've been reading a lot since. Obviously, he condemned the judges, two of whom he appointed. Yes. Yeah. It's like, oh wow, they're doing their job. They're actually interpreting the constitution. You're supposed to do that. Yeah, you weren't here. It's supposed to and blatantly saying like you went against the Republican agenda. It's like, this is you're saying the quiet part out loud. Like we all know that justices are political animals. But sometimes, a lot of times, they just vote the way that constitutionally speaking, they think they should. And that's what these two did in this case. So yeah, and Kavanaugh actually gave the blueprint. Kavanaugh was like, I disagree with this ruling. And also, this isn't the only way that Trump can impose these tariffs. And he's absolutely right. So I think that's why Trump went ahead and was like, fuck you now. It's first it was 10% global. Then he's like 15% legislating through Truth Social, as he's inclined to do.
SPEAKER_00Well, and then aren't I forget which day was it Ohio or someone was like, you need to pay everyone $1,700.
SPEAKER_01Well, here's the thing that's really hard. I was reading a really good, it might have been an MSNBC article, but it was talking about like the reimbursement plan, which of course the Supreme Court did not delve into. Oh, okay. And the Am I gonna get money? That would be amazing because the the studies show that small businesses and consumers were the most impacted by these tariffs. And farmers. And farmers, right? But when it comes to big missus, like Costco, for instance, whom we love, no shade, they're the ones that are going to be more successful and getting reimbursed because it's going to be a mountain of paperwork. And they have, you know, huge legal team, right? Whereas the small business, my understanding is the primary plaintiff, I think, who brought this to the Supreme Court is like a small wine shop owner or something who um specializes in international wine. Most wine is international. Anyway, we just happen to live in California and drink a lot of California wine. But um, you know, it's gonna be a lot harder for those people to get any money back.
SPEAKER_00I couldn't even get more money from PGE for all the power out. I was told it was a small business owner, I could petition any business I lost, anything like that. Fuck yeah. In addition to just being, you know, we all got a couple hundred dollars off. But yeah, and it's it's hard. So I don't know what everyone else is supposed to do. No, but it's it's a pain in the ass.
SPEAKER_01So anyway, I'm glad they ruled against him. Welcome to the world, according to Jen and Carolyn. Yes, yes, and we're not talking about tariffs today. No, we are going to be talking about AI and whether or not it's coming for your job. Um, I feel really like cotton mouthy and I didn't even got some water. Eat or smoke any weed. I brought over to you across the table. It's quite long. I'm probably gonna get up at some point and get water because now all of a sudden I'm talking and I feel dry. Anyway, I did get nine hours, nine hours of sleep last night, which is unheard of in my world. It was crazy. Yeah. That's the best, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Well, when I woke up today, I was like, oh, it's probably seven o'clock. I was like, oh my god, it's 9.15. I have to get out for you. That would be like, I don't even know. No, I've been working full time since I was 18 years old. I've always had, you know, regular day jobs. Yeah. So I've always had to be up pretty much no later than six o'clock. Yeah. And so my body is conditioned. So even when uh oh, it's in my mouth. Oh, it's a piece of apple. Um, even when I want to sleep in and have the ability to sleep in, you still wake up. You can't. Because you're used to doing it's a habit. Yeah. I was talking to Blanca, another mom, one of our good friends, who says she's like, I get up at 7:30 regardless. It's so annoying. That's the latest. Yeah. Yeah. And I I'm not a napper either. Oh, I love a good nap. You know, after we went out and partied on Friday, it's very rare for us. At 10 o'clock, I was already exhausted. Oh, I was having such a good time. I could have released shout out to the DNA lounge for creating a really warm, inclusive, and inviting atmosphere. We were for sure the old eldest people there, but it was maybe the bartender. Yeah. They were playing 99 uh 90s and and like Y2K music. And we were feeling ourselves. Oh, I know. The young people were so sweet to us. Oh, they were like, you were you, you were elders. You were here when this first came out. We lived through it. They were all dressed like us in the 90s, like Doc Martin's as far as the eye can see. Um, yeah, so DNA lounge, we will forever um support and promote them because they're it's just a beautiful space. Yeah. It's just loving.
SPEAKER_00All the people work, what was the other clutter across the street? Yeah. And then the place next to it. Like they're all, they were like, Yeah, if you want to come over and work in the door. Oh, yeah. No, they're a little community there.
SPEAKER_01They take care of each other. It was really easy days too.
SPEAKER_00Very fun. Very fun. Yeah. But yeah, we are tired.
SPEAKER_01We're now, we are now recovered from our Friday as it is Sunday. It takes a couple of days once you get over 40, guys. And there's and there's alcohol involved. There's alcohol involved. Yes, absolutely. And I can out drink everybody, which is a problem. Um, when you're when you're small, and uh, that's why I have to get a good base. Yeah whenever we go out, I'm like, I'm gonna eat a lot of carbs tonight.
SPEAKER_00I just can't do it anymore. Yeah. I hate to say it, but like I'm much I'm so like dizzy and tired and pass out-y, and then the headaches in the morning, weed doesn't do any of that to me. I feel like if I drop a gummy and go out and take like a list gummy, I'm way more fun. If I could just avoid the munchies, I'm fine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I wish I could be more social. I need if I'm gonna do weed in public, I need a good balance of alcohol and weed. Now we sound like we need an intervention.
SPEAKER_00I know we're not. We're not, but anyway, we have warriors for life. The AI thing you just told me though, about the person marrying.
SPEAKER_01Oh, because this is funny. So we're focused on the world of work in AI today, primarily, but I did watch a video of a woman. I can't remember if it was in Japan or here, but anyway, she was marrying an AI bot, like going through a ceremony, had the phone there with like a computer-generated image of a dude. And I mean, that as much as I want to laugh at that, I'm like, that is some real loneliness and delusional thinking.
SPEAKER_00Unless you're on a spectrum of something, maybe, and that's the most comfortable you can get without some people don't like human contact. That's true. I totally get it.
SPEAKER_01Hugger, yeah, this is true. I can I should be able to, it should resonate with me more than it does.
SPEAKER_00I could never well, but you know, it's like the real doll, like, you know, thing where it was like everyone thought that was weird too. And I don't know, like, I do love my Roomba.
SPEAKER_01I mean, if it's not hurting anybody, that that's kind of our philosophy on the show.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Go go have your fun. Yeah. But I think the human part of me is like, oh, that's sad. Who's gonna hug you? Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it's not you're not getting the same interaction and support that you would from another human being.
SPEAKER_00And you don't like to me, the best part about being in any friendship or relationship is we're witnesses of each other. Right. Not only are you experiencing things that's happening to me, which would give you that AI experience, but I get to watch you. Yes. Although maybe you're just really self-centered and she's like, I don't want to hear what's happening to you.
SPEAKER_01Don't want to hear any of your problems. I just, I just want to vent and I don't want to have to tell you to do the fucking dishes and pick the kid up from school. So who knows? Who knows? But today we're gonna talk about whether or not AI is coming from your job for your job. Because with all of these rapid advances in AI, from automated text tools to, you know, a fucking companion. Yep. Many workers are wondering if their livelihoods are safe. So we wanna break down the facts, the fears, and the future and help you understand what's real and what's speculation. Yes. So, and I'll get into this later. That article that I shared with you, that it was so crazy because my husband sent me this article. The guy's last name is Schumer, and he was like, You have to read this article. It's already been downloaded 60, 60 million times. Yeah. And then a week later, our friend Brandy sent us the same article. I was like, girl, I've already read this. So God knows how many times it's made the rounds now. Good. But she was like, you have to read this because that article is very eye-opening around AI and jobs. And it's linked in our show notes if anyone needs it. It is. And I'll, you know, when we make our promotional videos, I do want to include that. So, Carolyn, what are your feelings on AI? Give me a second, my scrolling just did something weird.
SPEAKER_00God, I don't have my glasses today. I tried to do something. Is it nostalgic or human error? Human error. Oh, it's when it comes to me. We're gonna sound so old today, but we'll try not to. All right, so tell me if you feel this too. Okay. Part of me wonders if you and I are also the type of people who kind of romanticize like the simpler times, you know, coming from the 80s and 90s, right? I think every generation does. Absolutely. Yeah. I I don't, you know, I don't want to be the one in the way of something that, you know, you have to progress with the world. Right. You know, it's like if you were the my dad with like computers, those won't last. Oh, that's so funny. My entire medical practice, pen and paper. Not someone who invested in early Apple technology, I take it. Nope. And that was like an intent. Again, I it's there is nostalgia, but we also have some, I have some clinical data I'm gonna show you that backs up my kind of concern that this is just the world now. I use AI. I use a platform platform called Claude, and it's helped me build my business. It's it's how we market this podcast, it helps me work things, and I've also had the experience where AI has told me something I want to do is not good, or like, hey, you know, that doesn't sound ethical, Carolyn. Like, here's how you need to do this. And I'm like, whoa, or I'll say something. It's like that's not nice. I'm all shut up. Yeah. Anyway, I didn't ask for your opinion, Claude. Fuck you. That was Chat GPT. I don't use Chat GPT now. I only use Claude GPT.
SPEAKER_01Chat GPT is a saucy bitch. She is. I'm trying not to use Chat GPT because the owner donated like $25 million to Trump.
SPEAKER_00See, that's the other thing, right? So there's the political sterns, but my feelings are complicated. And I think that's a really good place to start because I, before I can get into AI, I keep coming back to what we already know about technology and learning. So a cognitive neuroscience named James, I'm sorry, Jared Cooney Horvath just testified before the US Senate and presented decades of data showing that Gen Z is the first generation in modern history to have lower scores on cognitive measures than the generation before them. Oh, wow. And that includes memory, attention, executive functioning, and IQ. And guess when that started, Jen? Oh, the onset of tech, I'm sure. 2010. Social media really. Social media took it off, but it started right around 2010 when we put screens in every classroom. And his point was that technology is a tool for experts to offload skills they already have. Yeah. And it was never designed to help novices build those skills. And I think we've repeated that mistake without reflection. Yeah. And that's what also makes this really complicated for me because I'm not ready to say that AI is the next version or right. It's of that next mistake, right? And another writer, Mark Mason, um, who remember that book that came out, like how to unfuck yourself. And it was, it was a like big thing. It's very funny. He's a very funny writer, but he it's like a um a raccoon, like that's a funny title. And everyone's like, fuck on a book cover? Oh my. So anyway, so he talked about uh that people are using AI to think less, summarizing articles, writing emo emails, outsourcing the friction. But he argues that the highest leverage use of AI does the opposite. It makes you think more. Yes. And it engineers discomfort. It asks you to look at your blind spots, challenge your own beliefs, run behavioral experiments on yourself. And he makes this observation that we're essentially um like we don't have as much access to this world-class coaching that AI can actually bring us. Like people are, you know, most people use it to write a breakup letter. And I have clients who tell me this all the time where they're like, Well, I asked ChatGPT what I should say to that person.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, no, don't take my job. Yeah. Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, so yeah, so again, because of that, as a therapist, I have a lot of feelings about this because they have also shown that a lot of the therapeutic models that came out, people are pulling it because it's not you can do CBT stuff, but you can't have that same person-to-person feeling, right? That's always gonna be missing. And so, you know, it what Mark Mason is describing is this the capacity to sit with discomfort and get honest with yourself and actually grow. Yeah. So the work, right? And that's what this change requires. So the question I keep coming back to is you know, if all we're doing is using AI to avoid work or pay people less or simplify things, um, or can we actually go deeper into it? And, you know, again, so two different tools, but okay.
SPEAKER_01Well, I use AI every day, and um, you to me, you get out of it what you put into it. And that's that's a skill. And um that article that I referenced earlier, that that is what this person is really pushing. Like you need to know what to say. You can't just like randomly say things and hope to get the answer that you want it to generate. Like, I use it for research. Yes, and I and I use it to write our scripts too.
SPEAKER_00It's very helpful for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it is because but as long as you tell AI whatever tool you're using, cite your sources. Yes. And then I have those sources and I can check. Yes. So, you know, so back to today's road roadmap. We're gonna we're gonna talk a little bit about what workers believe in in regard to AI, what research shows us, the industries that are at risk of jobs that are going to be replaced potentially by AI. Um, and then the economic and political implications and how workers can adapt. So, and and honestly, too, since I wrote this, some of my feelings have changed because after writing this is when I read that article, which has me thinking that even more jobs than what I anticipated would disappear when I wrote this, are going to disappear. Uh-huh. It's just so, you know, let's talk about the worker sentiment. What do people think? So many workers already believe AI will affect their job. So 85% think AI will impact their roles in the next few years. Roughly equal shares expect benefits versus versus replacement of some tasks. So that's good. And that's kind of how I think. That's that's how I utilize I utilize AI. Like I work in government, we all have a ton of work on our plate. We are permitted to use AI now. It took us a while to adopt it. Um, we have to use it in a very specific way. And we we are only supposed to use one tool, the Microsoft one. Yes. So because it's um, you know, it's something we pay for. And if you pay, my understanding is if you pay for an AI chatbot or whatever, it it it insulates you more and protects some of your information. But it's called open AI for a reason. Right. You know, so you have to be careful. We in particular in government have to be careful about what we feed into it. Well, and it's being recorded. Yeah, it's open AI. It lives there. So but I already notice with um co-pilot, and it might just be because it's inferior, because it's Microsoft. When I I have a hard time with copilot, it I've gotten used to it. But when I log out of it and I go back in, and I'm sure there's maybe a setting, it might be a government setting, doesn't keep your previous inquiries. Oh interesting. Whereas ChatGPT does. And it might be a government setting. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, no, I was just gonna say, because in government, and a lot of people don't know this, we have something called the Sunshine Act. And the Sunshine Act sounds happy, it's the the furthest thing, but I get it and I respect it. Essentially, anything that we produce in our government roles, be it an email, uh, text, whatever, it somebody can say, I want all the records pertaining to fill in the blank, and you have to turn it over. Because it's pub, is it considered public? It's technically a public record. It belongs to the people. It belongs to the people, and I get that. And so then how are the Epstein tells us? Well, that's the thing. Us like mission. I know, as lowly civil servants are held to a much higher standard than the people that the president and the rest of the fucking assholes involved in some child sex murder cabal are held to.
SPEAKER_00So I was gonna ask you, you have to do training because a lot of the um uh platforms I work on for mental health, I had to do a training if I was going to use AI.
SPEAKER_01There is a training. Well, it's like a we do like lunch and learns and shit, but we do have to disclose like how we're using it and what we're using it for. Every year they do an audit.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, and it's just one more thing that can be sunshine, right? So I don't I don't see it as scary. Yeah. I'm like anything can be sunshin' in our work role. So, and I've been through it before, and I've been through it for lawsuits between different entities, and I've been through it with reporters. People trying to break a story, and I'm like, there ain't nothing interesting in my email.
SPEAKER_00I was gonna say, if you're behaving appropriately and doing your job, you shouldn't have anything to wear.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know exactly anything. Yeah, and I I keep my nose clean because I have integrity too, but also the added threat. You know, the added threat of having to like publicly disclose this stuff also shouldn't be able to do that. Yeah, right. So, okay, so people also think a separate survey found 34% of US workers fear AI will lead to job loss in the next five years. Let's talk about younger workers. This really surprised me. So, especially Gen Z, they are particularly anxious. While some older workers feel more confident about adapting, and it might be because what you talked about. Some 80% of employees expect AI to affect their daily tasks, according to a survey of 27,000 workers and 1,225 employers conducted by top recruitment firm Randstad. Gen Z is the most concerned generation, while baby boomers show greater self-assurance and are the least worried about AI impacts and their ability to adapt. Randstad's annual work monitor report said Randstad's data shows that job openings that list AI agent skills as a requirement have skyrocketed, skyrocketed by 1,587%. See, I work in workforce development and we just put out our major um request for proposals and we're re-procuring for all of our program areas and we have a tech program area. And I'm like, we are gonna see an influx of AI trainings, which is what I want to see.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because young people and even, you know, people who want to upskill, yeah, like they need to know how to utilize AI in the work world. Yeah. And maybe that's why it's one of two things, right? Us, us older folks either like are so ignorant when it comes to technology that we're like, we ain't scared of this shit. Whereas Gen Z is more tech proficient and they're like, you should be afraid. Or it goes back to what you said that I briefly touched on. They're the anxious generation. They're just about everything. And also, too, if their cognitive skills are declining and all these other skills are declining based on the data that you shared. Yeah, that might be why they're afraid.
SPEAKER_00That's funny. I was thinking they're like the the older generation, like, no, we're only have to use this for 10, 20 more.
SPEAKER_01That might be too right. Retirement, right? Exactly. Or we're irreplaceable. Yeah. But it might be that too, like this this misguided interpretation of how indispensable they are, you know. Totally. Or it's people like us who have had a lot of college, a lot of learning, and know how to use it as a research tool to augment and support our work instead of to do our jobs for us. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Well, and there's a flexibility, you have to be flexible with tech. Yeah. And any influx is something that's coming into your job. Yeah. You know, it's like, all right, so this is something I could either be afraid of it, like my dad, who's like, no. Or like be like, all right, let me learn how to use this and add this as a skill set.
SPEAKER_01Totally. And you also have to have the skills to determine whether or not what AI is generating is accurate. I was writing some legislation last week and I didn't, I did not use it to write legislation. Um, that is not what I'm using it for. I used it for research. Yes. And it was cobbling together an interpretation. And I kept saying, give me the exact language, the exact language. And they're like, that doesn't, I'm like, this isn't, this isn't right. You told me to go to this page on this legislation. And they're like, oh, you're right. It's because this is an inference based on this, this, and this. And I'm like, okay, that changes the way I'm going to approach this when we determine how best to write this legislation and introduce it to supervisors.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think that comes with like anytime you do research paper, to me, the most fun, but also the most time-consuming part, it would be months and months of gathering data, lit data. Right. And trying to have your statements of here's what I want to prove. Here's the articles I'm going to pull to prove my point. And then there's also articles I can prove to disprove it. Yes. Right. And so your research is that. And there's so much data now. Back when I was still using microfiche back at the state to do that. So there's this part of me, like when we come up with an idea, I'm like, hey, tell me all the research from this era to this era. Yeah. I want to hear what this person said. Tell me what this culture and it does that.
SPEAKER_01There's no excuse to be ignorant these days.
SPEAKER_00There no. But to your point, there's I'm still going, well, but that doesn't sound like I want to make sure where is that in the text? Yeah. Because I'm going to quote that. Right. And so it, yeah. Yeah. Computers make errors too.
SPEAKER_01Totally. Um AI hallucinates, but that's happening far less frequently now. And that's what that article by that Schumer dude pointed out. Especially if you're you have a paid-for uh version of a model. Well, ChatGBT won't tell me shit about Republicans. Oh, that's like that's political.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to talk about that.
SPEAKER_01You have to be very um crafty in the way that you craft your inquiries.
SPEAKER_00Tell me something shitty Trump said. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I can't do that. That's not kind. Well, yeah, and now we get it. It's like that motherfucker donated $25 million to Trump.
SPEAKER_00So we're not gonna get any critical analysis. I'm so sorry. I did not mean to. I'm like codependent with my AI. I'm like, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01And you it's always like, how did how did this answer suit you or whatever? I'm like, this is shit. You're shit. You're me. You're lying to me.
SPEAKER_00Technology, when you come to hate us, Jen's gonna you can catch it. When Skyrim actually happens. When the when Terminator, when the machines rise, they will remember Jen.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna need John Connor to protect me. Hopefully, my kid grows up to be John Connor. Anyway, that'd be bad. I just want to be Sarah Connor. I just want to be fucking Linda Hamilton from T2. And and my my well, we don't call them wife beaters anymore, but my wife and abusers, my husband abusers, and my fucking guns and remember when she came on and everyone was like, This is 40. I'm like, 40 years old Cameron can be cheated on this.
SPEAKER_00She's he was she was with James Cameron. They were married. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, and he directed that, I believe.
SPEAKER_01Uh so, but yeah, I think I I could be wrong, y'all. I could be uh like slurring poor James Cameron, but I think he cheated on her with Kate Winslit. I could be wrong when he did Titanic. Could be wrong. Fact check that for us. Fact check it. Where's Bon? Where's Blanca? She wants to be our like on-site fact-checker.
SPEAKER_00She should.
SPEAKER_01She should be our person. That would be amazing. So people are, as you can probably tell by the statistics that we shared, and even our conversation around this, they're indifferent. They're split, but mostly expect some impact, whether it be good or bad. So this sets the stage for deeper analysis. Fears aren't just imaginations, they're backed by real concerns. So, what does research say? What do experts and research show? Job displacement estimates. Let's talk about that. So, some economic research suggests AI could displace 6 to 7% of the US workforce under broad adoption, but effects are often modest and transient because things are always changing with AI. Absolutely. So other research warns up to 40% of American jobs could be affected through automation or both routine and non-routine tasks. That is more reflective of this article that I keep referencing. Global organizations also know AI expands the set of jobs at risk, especially white-collar roles involving cognitive tasks. We are saying the world of work is changing rapidly. And this time, I think it's going to have the largest impact, negative impact, on white-collar workers, at least when it comes to AI. So you point that out. You know, something, this article is by a guy named Matt Schumer, and it's called Something Big Is Happening. Highly recommend checking it out. So that's things are changing. Um mixed picture. Turn to face my ass. Mixed picture on displacement versus transformation. Some studies find AI mainly transforms jobs by automating tasks within them rather than eliminating entire roles. I tend to think that way too. Academic work shows AI increases demand for skills like teamwork, digital literacy, and strategic thinking, areas where humans still have comparative advantage. So AI isn't simply all jobs are gone or there's no impact. It's really complicated. Some jobs get automated, others get augmented, and new roles are emerging. Yeah. And that's important. And not right now, since the people we support around jobs and training tend to be the most vulnerable in our society and the folks who have the least amount of work experience. And so my question is always where are the intersections into AI or the entry points into AI work for them?
SPEAKER_00Well, and I would think too on an international level, this varies. Yeah. Like I'm thinking of like in Japan and Asian cult culture uh countries automated, like they have whole drug stores where it's like okay, pick like it's like a vending machine. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Japan's been on the shift for a lot longer than we have.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And but I think about that when you go into like McDonald's or into the bank, even like you don't banks don't need to be because everyone uses ATMs. And to me, that's a version of AI.
SPEAKER_01I mean, kind of. People still need to talk to a banker. Like, if you have more complicated things that need to be accomplished at the bank rather than just getting money out, you often need to talk to somebody. So, I mean, my husband just went to close an account with his mom and needed to make an appointment and have a conversation with somebody because there's ID that needs to be checked, and a lot of that can be performed with technology. I get it. I don't think those rules are ever going to completely go away. I think, yeah, exactly. And also there's still a huge segment of the population that isn't comfortable with technology replacing humans, old people, old people, right?
SPEAKER_00And even me to a certain extent. I like talking to people sometimes. Sometimes. I like the option.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I like having that option. Yeah. Like that article that um I keep talking about because it had clearly such an impact on me. Yeah. He talks about um financial advisors. And he talks about the financial advice that AI is giving to like day traders, for instance, and how spot on it is. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. And like telling you where to invest your money, etc. Beyond like day trading, like actual investments, something a financial advisor would do. And I still am not to the point where I don't want to do that with a human being. But if it gives you more information, it will prep me for a really good conversation, a really good meeting with somebody who's been doing it for 40 years. Yes. You know, like that's what I want. That's what I want to be able to do the research so I don't sound like a complete and total fucking idiot, which I often do when it comes to money. Highly doubtful. I know how to spend it, don't know how to save it. So, Carolyn, um, how does not understanding how AI works intensify fear and fatalism?
SPEAKER_00Well, psychological research shows, and I think this kind of makes sense, that uncertainty always is going to increase anxiety. Yeah. And so when in a we're in a documented loneliness epidemic, there is sometimes I'll go through, you know, six or seven sessions a day, and it's it's ironic that all the people I've talked to all are feeling lonely. But if I were to say, hey, why don't we do a group and you guys all can come together and we'll talk about the same thing. No, no, no, no, no. I don't want to do that. You know, so we're in a loneliness epidemic, and that's been going on for pandemic. Definitely push that, push that along. And the US Surgeon General issued a formal advisory on it. Um, research published in a 2024 PLOS medicine. Um, I don't actually know what PLOS public uh it's in my show notes, but I should look that up. Sorry for not knowing that. Um found that chronic loneliness carries mortality risk, comparing smoking 15, comparable to smoking 15 cigarettes a day. I love that statistic. Eye contact, vocal tone, physical proximity. We've talked about this in dating. We need that. So that's not a preference, that's biology. And the next concern isn't just physiological, it's, you know, we're talking about philosophies too, right? So here's why this is complicated. New research out of 2025 Harvard Business School study published in the Journal of Consumer Research found that AI companions do reduce loneliness on par with human interaction in short term. And people feel heard, that matters, but that's that's not AI connection. It's fake. It's not a real connection. That's my answer say it's fugazi. This is that it might be a bridge for some people to never cross back from, like the chick who married her AI bot, right? Right. And I don't think that makes me old fashioned for caring about it. No, but you know, again, it's also what's unknown. You know, similarly, we're looking at this, and and at first I was very anti again, because we don't even talk about the environmental impact in this episode, but we know that they're this has it comes from somewhere, right? These energies. And so, but then I I have used it, and again, it's really helpful and that the program really knows me, and I'm able to put in 20 different writing samples so it knows who I am and it kind of gets my tone and even can help me do that. Time-wise, that's very helpful. And as someone who I could get out in front of people and talk, it's what stops me is all the preparation of putting together PowerPoints. Yeah. So to be able to write, here's what I want to talk about in an hour lecture, help me synthesize this into a PowerPoint that is, you know, matriarchal and this, and I want to point out these things. That, and it was like, oh, here you go. Yep. What's something that probably would have taken me months that I would have stressed over and totally weird about, totally done.
SPEAKER_01But you have the knowledge to know what to ask for to get the results that you want. And that's why I don't think there's going to be any substitution for those folks who want you know higher education. Yeah. To to go in to continue going to college and not skip college entirely to rely exclusively on AI. You have to have those skills in order to get the best result. Yeah. So yeah, I hear you. And it's I have a friend who is an elected representative in San Mateo County, and he started a program. I don't know that the elements of it, but it's around loneliness and preventing loneliness. And at first, my mind goes to elderly people. But it's, as you mentioned, it clearly is not just elderly people, and it's a huge epidemic with men. With young men. And we know that that's dangerous. Uh-huh. There is danger associated with young men being lonely. Makes them angry. Makes them angry. The ones who don't have access or don't feel like they could talk to a woman, right? And then project that anger and frustration and then those feelings of inadequacy on women and become fucking incels. I think that's how our whole that's how Trump made it in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. That's where we are right now. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Uh particularly young white men. Yeah. So loneliness needs to be taken seriously. Absolutely. And that's the only reason why I don't say because it's white men. I'm like, no, no, no, we have to care because they're dangerous. Yes. They're dangerous. Statistics demonstrate that when it comes to these major crimes like rape and murder and mass shootings, white men hands down. Hands down. And so we have to care. Yeah. Um, it's it's really interesting stuff. We should do a we should do an episode on loneliness. That would be really loneliness and how it leads to um political violence. Done. Yes. Claude. Come on. Yeah. Put that into chat, GPT, and smoke it, dog. So which jobs are most at risk? Who's most exposed to automation? So let's talk about our high-risk categories. Routine clerical and administrative work, cashiers, data entry, secretaries, strong AI and automation automation presence already exists in these roles and is going to only increase. Yep. So some tech jobs may also face pressure. Even programmers could see AI tasks do it faster and cheaper. So that article talked about people don't have to do coding. They don't have to write code anymore. Right. That article talked about you to he told AI to design an app, what he wanted from the app, wrote code. Not only did it write the code, design the app, it tested for weaknesses, vulnerabilities, issues, bugs, fixed itself and spit out a version that was a good idea.
SPEAKER_00A whole series of Silicon Valley could have been eliminated. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01That's why, like all of our programs, you know, through the city, which are predicated on teaching people, particularly young people, how to code, it's like I don't think that's really relevant anymore. Nobody needs to know how to code. If AI is gonna do it, why do you need to learn how to code? Don't know. Takes forever. Yeah. I've watched somebody code. It is, well, this was like 15 years ago. It was it was fucking excruciating. Yeah watching someone fucking do it's like Python or some shit.
SPEAKER_00Something C C Java Plus Plus. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. I did it at Tary. I know. I remember having to learn it in seventh grade, and I was like, this is like math. Thank you. Yeah, exactly. Can I play Oregon Trail, Mr. Brillinger? I want to die of.
SPEAKER_01I almost said dementia, but I'm about to say dysentery.
SPEAKER_00We probably will.
SPEAKER_01Right, because we're people are living too long. So what are the lower risk and emerging areas? So jobs with emotional intelligence. Hopefully your job, physical dexterity, complex human judgment, such as caregiving trades like plumbing. Woo! Electricians, strategic leadership, show relative resilience. New categories like AI system coordinators, safety auditors, and digital infrastructure managers are also emerging. So not all futures are bleak. Context really matters. And I think right now, this is why we are seeing, and we are seeing it, a huge uptick of younger people wanting to go into the skilled trades. This last um last iteration of the construction pre-apprenticeship program that we run that's been around for 20 years, I think it had the highest number of what we call transitional age youth. So in this case, 18 to 24 year olds, than I think ever. And this cohort had the most. It wasn't the most women, but we had a couple of women, which is good. We always strive to get our women in there. Yeah. But it's young people. Young people who previously were like, nope, I want a white-collar job. I want to go to college or I want to be a fucking entrepreneur or whatever. Okay. They're like, the trades, that's where I'm gonna make six figures. Yeah, that's how I'm gonna be able to buy a house. Yep. My husband works for the plumbers union. The amount of money that those folks make is absolutely insane. It's it's insane in a good way.
SPEAKER_00And and all protections, but yeah, you know, again, Debbie Downer. The environment, yeah. This is predicated on us having energy. Yeah, of course. You know, and so what is the point of coding in apps? I mean, last December, there was a power outage for three days. Yeah, I couldn't do shit.
SPEAKER_01Who's gonna survive if and when or when the shit hits the fan? It's gonna be people who know how to work with their fucking hands. Yes, it's gonna be the plumbers and the crafts people, yes, and the fucking culinary people who are like, I can cook a meal out of nothing on a fucking rock. Gutty bears, tortillas, and ketchup. Yeah, too. I know. I didn't watch enough top chef to be able to cobble together stuff that well. Those are the people who are gonna survive. That's chopped. No, chopped. That was my favorite show. I love I love all those shows. So, Carolyn, why do white-collar workers seem newly panicked while automation has been hitting blue-collar workers for decades?
SPEAKER_00Because destabilized professional class immunity in a nutshell. Um, there's there's been an unspoken social contract in this country for decades. Yeah. And it said if you get a degree, if you do the cognitive work, you're insulated. Yeah. Right? And automation was always framed as something that happened over there. So factory workers, assembly lines, what we didn't talk about enough is that blue-collar workers have been living this disruption since the 80s. And Pew Research Center expert put it plainly. Um, AI is now reaching up from the factory floors into the office spaces where white-collar higher paid workers tend to be. And the professional class is experiencing for the first time what working class communities basically absorbed without any national outcome.
SPEAKER_01It's like what white people are now experiencing with the Trump administration that people of color have been experiencing all their lives. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like, oh shit, now it's hitting me. Yes. And where were you when that was happening to George Floyd? Where were you? Like again, not to minimize any of these things that are happening. They're categorically awful, but 100%. And then you're asking, what do we do?
SPEAKER_01That goddamn poem will haunt us. First they came for the blue-collar workers, then they came for the coders, then they came for the tech bros.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, it's it's always looked at something again that's happening over there. And the professional, um, sorry, I've lost my train of thought there. So, yeah, the panic isn't irrational. It's just new to this group. Yeah. And the data backs up why this feels so accurate right now. So in January 2025, US Bureau of Labor Statistics reported the lower rate of job openings in professional services since 2013, a 20% year-over-year drop. The American Staffing Association found that roughly 40% of white-collar job seekers in 2024 couldn't secure even a single interview. Wow. IBM, Google, major companies have openly said they're holding off hiring in back office and administrative roles because AI can now do that work. And Anthropics-owned CEO, Dario Amoday. I don't know. I apologize if I'm not saying that correctly, called it a potential white-collar bloodbath. I agree. Yeah. That'd be a great title for blood. White-collar bloodbath. But particularly for entry-level positions, right? I know, right? It does feel like American Psycho. Um, the bottom rungs of the career ladder are basically disappearing. And this has implications beyond just individual jobs because those entry-level roles aren't just jobs, they're how people learn industry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So how first generation college graduates build career, how you automate a junior paralegal, the first year analyst, and the entry-level developer. You're not just cutting costs, you're collapsing that infrastructure that creates the next generation of senior professionals. And so this panic that we're seeing, and I think we're gonna see it more now. With I mean, even in the past, AI kind of came into my world maybe two years ago. Yeah. I'm thinking I saw in my office and I remember a client was talking about AI and something about it, and I was like, huh. So, you know, it's it's happened fast. So at this moment, I am. What are they doing up there? No idea. I gotta yell at them. Hold on.
SPEAKER_01Hold on, folks. Give them something to drink, too. What are you guys doing up there? Okay, thank you.
unknownJesus.
SPEAKER_01It sounds like they're just they're doing curling. It sounds like a roller skating, man.
SPEAKER_00Okay, anyway. He's probably was trying to vacuum, and now you just deterred him. Oh god, he loves vacuuming. And he's like, You never let me vacuum. I'm like, let you just grab the vacuum, bro. Anyway. Anywho, so the moment we're willing to again sit with discomfort, yeah. Um, this this sounding alarm has been going off though for 40 years. And again, now it's something that is going to directly impact people. So we're we have to have, like you said, a little it can't be a win. It has to be a little some empathy across class lines because we haven't. And we all have skin in this game. I will say at two, I will say 30. Um, it is now a client can opt in to have their session recorded, yeah, so that then AI will write the note for me. Okay. Yeah, you can have your AI chat bot or whatever, or note bot or whatever in there. I just maybe I'm a con too much of a conspiracy theorist. I don't want anything recorded. It's medical. It's too, it's too touchy. I don't trust it. How many times a day am I getting emails that my password don't, you know, change your password on, you know, thread up or something, something's been, you know, compromised or something. I just I'm already editing my note where I take out race, I take out anything we talk about. It's such a simple snoop note that we'll just get the the case, get them another session. Right. I don't want that recorded. No, that's good. That's very conscientious of you. I just don't. And I even I just feel so worried. We had to go through a whole hour training, and I just I felt like an old fogie though, where I was just like, uh, like also to me, like that note taking, I take a lot of pride in that. Yes, it's a pain in the ass. Yes, I leave them all for the end of the week and I'm exhausted, but it helps me think about them and think, okay, what do I want to do next? Like, I don't see that's part of the job. Right.
SPEAKER_01That's part of the job. It's part of the reflective practice, and it's part of you giving them the best um resources and tools that you can offer.
SPEAKER_00Well, if anything, I'm going, why are we all investing in this and struggling? Try these things. Why don't we look at why we're even keeping notes in the first place? Because I have to prove to an insurance company that this person who I've gone to school for and can assess that to me, it's such a like, well, let's help all these stressed-out therapists who can't get their notes in on time. Well, because it's a ridiculous thing. Right.
SPEAKER_01Let's just please an insurance company.
SPEAKER_00Right. Who shouldn't have any say in medical shit ever. They get to say, hey, this person seems like they're doing good. They've had 12 sessions. Let's end it. And it's like, oh, that's kind of not how it works. But anyway, if you're if you're wondering, and all my clients said, What do you think? And I said, No, don't do it. Yeah. I was like, I'm I'm not gonna do that. I don't I don't want anyone listening to me either. No. The shit I say in a fashion. It's privileged information. Sometimes it's a little bit not what you might, you know, it's like, fuck that guy. I don't know if that's therapeutically appropriate that I want that documented.
SPEAKER_01You gotta tell them what they need to hear. And sometimes that's what they need to hear. That's my like like shrink philosophy as someone who's been in therapy.
SPEAKER_00I just think of all the things like no, not therapy.
SPEAKER_01I agree. I agree. So what does this mean? We'll we'll touch on this briefly and then we're gonna wrap this up economically and politically. So AI isn't just a technological issue, it's economic and political. Everything's economic and political, right? Research shows about half of the experts expect significant displacement of both blue-collar and white-collar work with potential consequences for income inequality and social order. Great. Something else that lends itself to income inequality. So governments and institutions are debating training programs, universal basic income, and strategic retraining programs. These are all the things that we're talking about in my office. Yep. This isn't a dystopia or a utopia. It's a battleground of policy and investment. So, you know, the panic that you touched on, it's already here. So just last week, and that's why this article from Matt Schumer made a lot of sense because it explained what was happening last week when there was a huge panic on Wall Street. Worries about artificial intelligence disrupting business models had sparked a sell-off in software firms, brokerages, and trucking companies the previous week. This is why my friends at the Teamsters are concerned, trucking companies, leading to Wall Street's three main indexes to record to record their biggest weekly decline since mid-November. So potential risks from Chinese AI players exacerbated the uncertainty. And on Monday, um, Alibaba unveiled a new AI model, Quin 3.5, designed to independently execute complex tasks. So that's what this article talks about. AI is now able to execute really, really complex tasks. And so it's going to eliminate a lot of jobs, and people are panicking, seriously panicking. And I think it's justified. I think it's justified. So how can workers adapt? So focus on complementary skills that we keep referencing, right? That AI can't easily replicate. Creativity, leadership, ethics, empathy, digital literacy, lifelong learning and reskilling are increasingly essential. Many job postings now demand new skills tied to digital tools and AI. So if you're an older person, even older than me and Carolyn, don't say fuck AI. It's it's not inconsequential in my world. That isn't true necessarily. Learn it. Learn it. Get good at it. Make yourself invaluable as the employee who knows how to utilize, utilize AI and get the best results. And this is where I'm at right now. I have a friend who's a job seeker, and he was having me review his resumes and his cover letters, and I kept giving specific instruction to AI and generating, generating improvements. Yes. And I go, I'm gonna teach you how to do this. And now he's doing it. He's like, this is great. And you add it to your resume. Right. I'm like, and you can tell AI, retain, retain as much of my voice in this as possible. So it doesn't sound like somebody else wrote it or that it's not about you. Yes. You want your voice to come through, and you can tell AI to accentuate that. Yes. So there's a mindset shift, right? So think of AI as a tool that augments human capability rather than a pure replacement. In many fields, success is going to mean mastering AI tools and not competing with them. You know, it's those of us who adopt and adapt, flexible, not like, you know, the people who resist, resist, resist. So I always think about this is this is a big one in workforce development when the car was invented, right? The Model T was invented and the folks who made riding crops or or the you know the whips that you use to make the horses go faster and like all the horse equipment, the leather stuff, right? There was a component of them who were like, fuck this, we're gonna fight pack, we're gonna just make you know prettier things or whatever. And some of them were like, ooh, how can we get in on this? And they started making the leather for the interiors of these cars. Yep.
SPEAKER_00And they're the ones that lasted. Don't be blockbuster when it comes to AI being Netflix.
SPEAKER_01Right. Exactly. Exactly. So I keep coming back to this. Every major technological shift in history has asked us the same question. Are we gonna let this happen to us or are we going to make conscientious choices about how it will happen with us? This is what the Teamsters are trying to figure out right now. Okay, we're not gonna completely push out automated driving, but how do we keep union jobs associated with this in a way that complements this technology, not pushes against not what's inevitable, what's already here. You say I'd ask it that. Right. Totally. I'm gonna work with my friends at the Teamsters on that. So we didn't ask the question carefully enough when we put laptops in every classroom, like you said. And now we have the chance to ask this question. And we can't, we can't miss the boat on this. So um, beings need you wrote this. Yeah, well, yeah, what you're saying. Like I was like, this is I'm like, these aren't my words.
SPEAKER_00Are they AI's words?
SPEAKER_01I don't know.
SPEAKER_00They're AI's words with Carolyn's voice and intention, right?
SPEAKER_01You you close this out since it's in red, which is supposed to tell me that it's yo, okay. I love you in red. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We need coherence. We need to have be in unity and in in um in wholeness with whatever we're doing. And our nervous system functions best when it has safety, connection, and meaning. So if your your nervous system is also working okay, if it's like, I don't understand this, learn. Yeah, learn, take a class. Um, those aren't soft concepts, they're biological imperatives and no efficiency gain, no automation wave, no AI tool changes that. The real question for the workforce isn't just which job survive, it's what do you want work to mean? And the only question humans actually are it were able to answer that. And AI make if AI makes you think less, that's on you. And if it makes you think more, grow, connect more meaningfully, that's on you too. So I think it's one of those things classical, like do what you want with it. Yep. But it's gonna, it's here, it's not going anywhere. Right. And if, you know, I don't know, I is it coming for our jobs? Probably. Yeah. Right? You can take it over.
SPEAKER_01Right. And so um, you know, my workforce development lens is always intact. And I would say if you are a worker who has a repetitive job, an administrative job, upskill. Yes, if you're an incumbent worker, upskill. Teach yourself these new technologies. Take a class, educate yourself so you can keep up with these changes and make yourself valuable in the world of work. Yeah, you can't get stuck in this, in you know, just don't get stuck in a monotonous job with repetitive tasks anyway. Right. You know, you want to continue to grow, change, and make more money. Yeah. And this right now, I think the folks who can can manipulate AI and change with AI, they're the ones that are going to be successful in this new world of work that isn't emerging. It's already here. It's absolutely here. So those are our notes on AI, everybody. Hopefully, we didn't sound like too big of bloodites or morons that don't know what they're talking about. We try. And we use AI every day. Yeah. Don't fear it, but um think critically about it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yay! All right, everybody, as always, our usual plugs. I don't know who even hangs on this long, but follow us on TikTok. We have a community of almost 8,000 people, which is really nice. We're TwatJC on TikTok. We're also on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, the world according to Jen and Carolyn. Thank you for listening as always, and we'll see you very soon.