Prepare yourself for a captivating exchange with Rabbi Jeff Grillo of the Rock of Israel Congregation. This episode isn't just another run-of-the-mill conversation - Rabbi Grillo's remarkable journey has taken him through the realms of radio, literature, and personal adversity, offering a wellspring of wisdom and inspiration. From revealing the secret weapon within his self-help book, 'The Excuse Assassin', to detailing the unique characteristics of his Messianic congregation, Rabbi Grillo's insights are a veritable treasure trove.
What happens when you face life-altering challenges, such as a degenerative eye condition or two forms of cancer just before your wedding day? Rabbi Grillo did not merely endure - he thrived. Tune in to learn how he mastered the guitar via YouTube, crafted music for his church using a drum machine, and even managed to drive until the age of 30. He also shares about his time at Southeastern Bible College and the powerful lessons he garnered from his experiences.
But this episode isn't only about weathering storms - it's about finding faith amidst the wreckage. Rabbi Grillo candidly speaks about his tumultuous journey through marriage, divorce, and debt, and how he rediscovered his footing and faith. Hear his moving perspective on trusting God's calling, following His commandments, and recognizing adversity as a divine test of our hearts. His conviction that God can transform our mess into a message for His glory and our good, will leave you pondering long after the episode ends.
*If you are searching for a clinical counselor and you live in Alabama, Virginia, or North Carolina, Dr. Jonathan Behler would be happy to see you as a client! He does all counseling virtually through a secure portal. He will also work with you on payments - don't let finances keep you from getting counseling!
If you live out of the US or not in Alabama, Virginia, or North Carolina, Dr. Jonathan Behler is an ordained minister and trained in pastoral counseling. If you are seeking pastoral counseling, please reach out as well!
I policymakers today, thanks to immerelujahs PA Music. Welcome to Grace and the Shadows. This is Dr Marla Beeler and Dr J Dr Jonathan Beeler. Well, hello everybody. Thank you so much for joining us today. We'd like to do a quick shout out to Hickory, north Carolina. Yeah, we used to live close to there in Moravian Falls. So, yes, hello to people in that area, people we used to know. It's been a while. The kids used to call it the old world. So anyway, you can check us out at Graceandtheshadowsorgorg. You can email us at Dr Jonathan. At Graceandtheshadowsorg, i can't talk and you can text or call 251-2444645 and I'll just cut it off there because we have a special guest today. You want?
Speaker 2:
to introduce him. Yes, rabbi Jeff Grillo, yes. And he is a pastor at Rock of Israel Congregation. Yes, He is married to his wife Anna, son Joshua and daughter Emily. And well, tell us a little bit about yourself, Rabbi.
Speaker 3:
Glad to have you. Well, it's an honor to be here. Thank you very much. I'm still trying to get over being introduced as special, but you know it's. I've been called much worse So.
Speaker 1:
I think you're thinking of it, he has a background in radio too. Yes, you can hear his voice. I'm kind of into myself because I know he's going to be great against us.
Speaker 2:
He's going to grade our voices?
Speaker 1:
Oh no.
Speaker 3:
Oh no, hey, there's a reason to former radio detail.
Speaker 1:
Oh, no, no, no. Now, while you're telling us about yourself, will you explain about your congregation, how it's messianic to please?
Speaker 3:
Okay. So yeah, judaism like Christianity, and I don't know that they necessarily call them denominations, but you know you get different groups the Orthodox, ultra-orthodox, hasidic, and so on. So mostly all of them differentiate from Christianity in that they do not accept Yeshua Jesus as their Messiah. They have a few major issues you know, clearly based on, you know, misunderstandings. And that's another, i guess for another time.
Speaker 1:
Right another day. Yes.
Speaker 3:
But suffice it to say the messianic variety are the types that do in fact accept and embrace Yeshua HaMashiach, jesus the Messiah, as the true Messiah of Israel. In fact, the first century church really wasn't a church at all. It was a group of Jewish, for the most part Jewish, believers that were, i guess, by all intents and purposes the Orthodox for the day. Most were Pharisees of that sect of Judaism, because the Pharisees believed in the resurrection, so the Sadducees did not, and that is why they are sad, you see, as they.
Speaker 1:
We've heard that.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, it's an old one, but I had to do it, you had to do it Absolutely. But yeah, they were Jews. And then, obviously, Paul, and then others started to propagate the faith amongst the non-Jews Gentiles, Goiom, whatever you want to refer to them as the nations, And then in Messiah there is now neither Jew nor Gentile.
Speaker 3:
We are part of the one new man, both of circumcision and of up circumcision. So we're all circumcised of heart and that's kind of the variety. We fall under the national Jewish fellowship, under the Assemblies of God, so I'm credentialed with the Assemblies of God. My card says pastor, because I don't think they really have a rabbi, a designator, but it's a synoptic.
Speaker 1:
It's all good, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:
Cool, you have written a book.
Speaker 3:
You've written more than one book, right, i have written two now officially, more than I have read. I'm just kidding, that's a joke. The excuse assassin.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that's the latest one.
Speaker 3:
I believe it was 2015 that one came out and then kind of did the media thing a couple different Christian television networks and blogs and radio stations and even once no two secular AM Talks shows about it. The first book was just sort of telling my testimony and my story overcoming different challenges, definitely all the way from a Christian perspective. The second one, the Lord inspired me to you know. Well, am I just going to spend my life preaching to the choir, or am I going to go teach baptizing disciple and get out of the four walls, awesome.
Speaker 3:
And so I decided to kind of do things differently and package it, so to speak, as a run of the mill self-help book. Smart. So from my cover which is complete with my head site at the time and I know it was a good looking cover, and they say never, ever, ever, judge a book by its cover I say it once. It's my book because it is a wonderful color Awesome.
Speaker 1:
Love it.
Speaker 3:
I can't help myself sometimes. I didn't make it, but it's basically the excuse assassin and the word excuses is inside of what appears to be a rifle scope and has a few holes shot.
Speaker 1:
It's cool Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Okay, so, yeah, so it's, and then the whole thing just is life lessons. I was never in the military, for obvious reasons. Uncle Sam frowns upon friendly fire.
Speaker 1:
Right, right.
Speaker 2:
And we're going to have to explain that to just a little bit.
Speaker 3:
We'll go back and explain what that is, okay, yes, yeah, i am a big fan of all things you know, military, and movies and books and biographies, so I kind of tried to put things through that lens.
Speaker 3:
And then the end of the book chapter six it's a relatively short book, i think 115 pages or so. Chapter six was titled My Ultimate Secret Weapon, and I opened up by saying listen, all you get out of this book are the first five chapters and you apply it, i guarantee you you will get your money's worth out of this book. But if you want to know really, jeff, what?
Speaker 2:
is your ultimate secret weapon.
Speaker 3:
What is it that fuels you to do all of these things? That's when I shared my relationship with the Messiah and walked him through the Romans road, and I know it was effective because the very first person to read it, my editor, called me up and she got saved.
Speaker 1:
So Wow, that's amazing. Oh my goodness, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:
Oh wow, god's good. I appreciate the honor and the privilege.
Speaker 3:
Yes, it is all because I always tell everybody anything that comes out of me.
Speaker 1:
it's the Messiah and me Oh my goodness, that's just so exciting, though, wow.
Speaker 2:
Now you've had some storms to say the least You've had some thunderstorms, hurricanes You've had a little bit of everything Tsunamis. I did read your book.
Speaker 1:
You know I read your book and it was excellent, it was very good.
Speaker 3:
Inspirational. Yes, i really recommend it.
Speaker 2:
I highly recommend it, believe it or not. Right, it's a good book. But I like to just backtrack to those early years. Yeah, you know how you came to know Christ and some of the things that happened. That really threw a curve ball and threw you right in the middle of a storm, a hurricane, hurricane five.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Well, wow. So yeah, bottom line is, you know I, was my dad's side of the family is all Italian, my mom's side is Portuguese and a little bit of this, a far-dick Jew in there. I believe Can't prove it. A lot of circumstantial evidence and a DNA test which you know, some people put stock in those, some people don't You look full-blooded, by the way? Well see, that's what that You could get by with.
Speaker 2:
Just saying I'm Jewish and fully Jewish.
Speaker 3:
Well, this is a funny aside, so in 2014, in Charlotte, this is when there was all those rocket attacks like 1400, 1000, whatever it was. It was just insane. They had to stand with Israel rally and Charlotte and me and two guys from my church went down there and, you know, stand there still had some sight. I don't even, honestly, i don't even know if I had my cane back then I might have, but at any rate, we're standing outside and I see this black car pull up next to me and these two young guys get out, all dressed up in suits and, you know, like the typical secret service kind of look.
Speaker 3:
Yes, yes, and one came up and like stood right next to me and I'm saying hi and he's not saying a word. He's just looking me up and down and the other guys walking around and the two guys from my church are looking at me with eyes like what in the world?
Speaker 2:
What did you?
Speaker 3:
do. And then, all of a sudden, the door opens up and this Jewish man gets out and he walks up to me. He's, all you know, dressed very professional and he comes right up to me and shakes my hand and we start talking and it turns out his name was Ofer Averon. He was the ambassador from Israel to the southeastern US, based in Atlanta. Oh wow. And we talked for a few minutes and exchanged some information and uh, wow, that's awesome Friendly to other on Facebook for a while. but the crazy thing is they walked away and and my friends will look at me like he walked up to you, like he knew you.
Speaker 3:
I love it. Maybe that's why, maybe True, i don't know.
Speaker 2:
The way you look. Well, first of all, how did you come to Christ? I mean, how did you come to know Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
Speaker 3:
Well, I was kind of raised in Catholicism early and my mom had actually taught the CCD classes they called. you know?
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
I remembered as a little kid learning the 10 commandments. But then I was the weird kid because I, because I'd sit in church and I'm looking around and in my head I'm like I shall have no graven images.
Speaker 1:
Oh yes, sure.
Speaker 2:
I was Catholic too.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, lots in church Yes, a lot of stuff like that.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, you know, and, and so I just started questioning things and then, it wasn't until I had turned 18 and graduated high school and ran into a girl at my work that I was interested in, and every single time I invited her to go out and do something. Oh, i can. I got church that day, okay, well. What about this day? Well, that's our midweek service, okay. What about this day? That's youth group. What about this way? She was in like a sign language group too. Every single thing. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I figured out if I want to be with this girl, i got to be where she is, so I accepted the invitation to go Nice, nice And it was a little assembly of the God church and we went up there and, as you know, some of the goddesses went across, even in the northeast they do that.
Speaker 3:
I remember sitting there and it was a. I don't remember exactly what the message was, but of course, you know, ended with the altar call and right and, and and you know. Then somebody started speaking in tongues and okay, and there's all you know that kind of thing going on.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, i mean, i don't know, i just didn't flinch. And then You're like what's this? I had never experienced anything like that before and then, of course, there was the very awkward ride home. Her mom was driving, she's like. So, oh no, what did you think? What did? you think of service And I, with all sincerity, again, it seemed normal to me. I asked this question. I said does everybody here speak Hebrew? Mm-hmm, and she's like, except for students, because to me it sounded like they were speaking Hebrew.
Speaker 1:
Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:
And whether whether it was or not, because I didn't speak any Hebrew back then, but to me that's what it. and then when they told me what it was, then I was like, oh, That's interesting.
Speaker 3:
Then it became, you know, you know, different and strange. I just thought somebody you know anyway, so I had you know it's talk with the pastor and another guy either that weekend or the next weekend. And it was just my heart, you know to, to be right with with God, and everything they said and everything they shared made sense and I latched onto it wholeheartedly. And then, sometime later, i remembered Pastor Dean Nguyen he was his name. He had mentioned from the pulpit that he believed every Christian young person should spend at least one year at a Bible college. Oh, and his philosophy was if the Lord doesn't get a hold of you by then, you're free to go.
Speaker 1:
Oh, nice. Well, that's pretty good, yeah, and.
Speaker 3:
I had the delusions of grandeur. I had originally had a verbal acceptance to Berkeley College of Music when I was young, not so much I play different instruments, but it was for, like, music production engineering. Oh wow, it was what I was interested in, that kind of fell through. So I said, well, hey, i'll just go for piano to this pure Bible college. Okay, there you go, and I did, and then that started the start of the journey in 1990.
Speaker 1:
That's awesome. Well, you've alluded a little bit to your site. Can you? can you share with us your journey with that?
Speaker 3:
Well, i take the scripture probably a little too seriously that over here to walk by faith, not by sight.
Speaker 1:
Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 2:
Now, rabbi, rabbi, i don't know whether to laugh or not. I don't want to be insensitive, right, right, but that is kind of funny.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, i'm a former radio DJ. I'm impossible to offend.
Speaker 1:
Okay, i should say near impossible, near impossible, okay, well, very good.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, hey, you know what Solomon says laughter does the heart good like a medicine and I believe, absolutely I believe in trying to absolutely on that, on that.
Speaker 1:
We do today.
Speaker 3:
So what was the question? Talk us through.
Speaker 1:
That's okay, we are talking. Talk us through. It's the kids having kids. Does that do? talk us through your the losing of your site.
Speaker 3:
The site. Yes, okay, you're fine. So so yeah, i was born with a hereditary degenerative condition called retinitis pigmentosa. people who know Stevie Wonder's story would probably recognize that that's the same disease he has. There's different forms of it. I don't think he really ever could see at all. I was diagnosed up in Boston when I was five. My parents were told then that I wouldn't see anything past age 18. Oh, as it turns out, i was able to drive up until I was 30 years old, and it is highly up for debate whether or not I should have been driving, but I okay. Remember the Mr McGoo cartoons how, like you know, he was always fine but everyone around him was wiping out all the time.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay then, by the grace of God, i never hurt anybody or myself. And then I was, you know. Finally, i wasn't smart enough, or whatever, to turn in the license and know when to quit and. I had done some. I was gonna say done sometime, like as if I was in jail. I spent some time. I spent some time in the Caribbean. I was living briefly down there, and when I came back I was having issues with my eyes, it turns out it was cataracts And I had gone to.
Speaker 3:
usually I just went to like lens crafters because I could kind of talk my way into getting them to sign off on my license In Florida the licenses were good for six years, but every two years. I had to get a medical signature. So those doctors, optometrists, would usually kind of freak out a little bit like whoa, i'm like, hey, listen, i go to work and back I don't drive, and I don't even drive in the storms, i just, you know, i pull over. I'm not suicidal, i just need to get to work.
Speaker 3:
And usually I could sweet talk him into signing off, but this time this so happened that I was going to the surgeon for the cataracts and that letter had come in the mail and thankfully I hadn't thought it through and I gave it to him thinking I could just pull the same nonsense with him. But he was an older gentleman and I remembered him looking at the form and looking up at me and looking back at the form and he pulled his glasses down over his nose and he said young man, You know you're in trouble when it starts like that.
Speaker 1:
Yes, you are. And he said young man.
Speaker 3:
Not only can I not sign this, but I have a moral and ethical obligation to report you to the state of Florida. It's nothing shorter miraculous that you haven't killed somebody.
Speaker 1:
Oh, my word. Well, there went that then.
Speaker 3:
It was a very sobering wake up call, but you know what you're looking back on it, as traumatic as it was, i had just finally paid off my car. See, god has a sense of humor, i think. So it's really thank God he did that, because you know, it could have been a much different interview.
Speaker 2:
Right Now. didn't you tell me that you also had a motorcycle? What?
Speaker 3:
does, yes, i did Okay then. When I was 18, i drove it Probably shouldn't have Definitely a little too fast. No sense in my head. But and you know what again, everything happens for a reason And sometimes I struggle. Even today, 53 years old, i thank to myself, oh Lord, what I wouldn't give just to have my eyesight back to be able to see my wife and see my kids. And I am thankful I can't see myself in the mirror anymore There are some. Oh no, no, some benefits right.
Speaker 2:
Wow. I bring some of this up, because you have a zeal for life in the face. You know God has given you empowerment to live Absolutely And even though maybe technically you should have been driving or whatever, but that zeal for life and living.
Speaker 1:
It tells a lot about you.
Speaker 2:
True that is true.
Speaker 3:
I take great joy in figuring out ways to accomplish things and do things that blind people are not supposed to do.
Speaker 1:
Well.
Speaker 3:
Right down to just, you know, just being able to devour books and different things. And of course now there's so much technology that's not so much of a big task anymore.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
But you know, I've learned how to play guitar by just listening to YouTube videos. I couldn't.
Speaker 1:
That's awesome.
Speaker 3:
Can't see them, but you know, yeah, and being able to. You know, like we just got a drum machine for the church and because we don't have a drummer And I just talked to my 13 year old daughter on programming songs, i'm like, hey, find this button, do this, do this for daddy, do this, do this. And before we know, we got it done. And even down to resisting things that blind people are supposed to do, like you know I love it when people ask me.
Speaker 3:
It's like well, do you read Braille? Do you want the menu in Braille? No, that's for blind people. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:
Love it. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:
So you were in Bible college with Southeastern, was that, yeah, back when it was just a lowly college, not the university with a stadium that it is today.
Speaker 2:
Right, right, Southeastern and Florida correct.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, yeah, lakeland, florida, yeah, cool Great school.
Speaker 2:
And you went there and you know you're going for your degree and some other things happen.
Speaker 3:
You did read the book.
Speaker 1:
I did. I read the whole book. I almost finished it. Yeah, i didn't get to that point. I'm interested.
Speaker 3:
Yes, All right. So, and this was, you know, part of the journey, matter of fact, i touched on this a little bit from the pulpit today. So somewhere in that first semester I don't even remember like the first day of actual classes I met a girl that you know hit it off and a little bit younger than me, but we're both freshmen and, long story short, ended up dating and got married against a council. So since I'm talking to two counselors, i advise everybody listen to your counselor.
Speaker 1:
Well, he's a counselor.
Speaker 3:
Well, I'm a life coach, but yeah, and a professor.
Speaker 1:
So we'll let him have. The counselor hat.
Speaker 3:
But listen to wisdom people.
Speaker 1:
Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:
You know we were just young and just dopey, I guess. But you know we got married and what makes it dopey is a month before the wedding I found out I had not one but two forms of malignant cancer at the same time. So, against all advice, i think we went ahead and got married like a month after that.
Speaker 1:
Wow.
Speaker 3:
I think part of this, the logic, if you can call it logic was in my head. I was like, well, if I'm going to die, i'm at least experiencing this marriage thing which was, you know, probably if it had worked that would have made a wonderful made for TV movie or something. But it was just. That's not what happened. So I ended up having surgery and a month or two later started chemotherapy and basically went on for a couple of months and it was the better part of a year.
Speaker 3:
I was just in bed, i was just. It took so long to recover strength and health to be able to even you know start a job. I didn't have health insurance, it was over $100,000 in debt.
Speaker 1:
Good, nice, gracious.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, and again didn't listen to logical you know advice to, you know file bankruptcy or whatever. I'm old school man, i've got to work it off and you know, eventually, many years later, got it all taken care of by the grace of God. That's awesome, but yeah, and then you know, the marriage itself, obviously under just ridiculous stresses and other issues that you know need not to be hashed up, but just you know, I know it's hard to believe, but you know I was not the best guy in the world.
Speaker 3:
I was dealing with a lot of stuff and you know, we both played a role in the marriage. I think 95 or 96 around there somewhere ended. And that's when I thought my life, my calling, my you know ministry hopes were all done because in our denomination. That's just not, you're done.
Speaker 1:
Right, right.
Speaker 3:
But I was teaching today about how you know the calling of God is without repentance. It doesn't change And a lot of you know decades later the denomination has kind of changed their stance on. You know divorce in certain circumstances, which happened to be what I fit into because I didn't end the marriage, she walked out and things like that, right. And you know now, all of these years later, you know I'm now married 22 years coming up on 23.
Speaker 3:
I got a 19-year-old son, 14, almost 14-year-old daughter, and God has just done things in my family life, in personal life, in finances, in ministry, that I just there's new logical explanation as to how it's how it's how it's done. It could be And even down to like where we live and this is not. I am very much not a prosperity gospel person.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 3:
You know the Deuteronomy 28 thing that folks like to quote. You know bless the faith bless, bless, bless, bless, bless. Well, what?
Speaker 3:
they don't read is there's a caveat If you are careful to obey all of my commands, then you will be blessed Right. And of course that ends with and, by the way, if you're not careful to keep all of my commands, then all of these courses are upon you. So it's contingent, and I will mean to imply that I'm somehow a wonderful keeper of all things. You know, torah, but you know I certainly do my best to learn. I'm number one. There's a lot more than the 10 we've been led to believe there are.
Speaker 1:
True, true.
Speaker 3:
There's 613 of them if you break it down. So even as a rabbi, you know, we still work to learn and to apply.
Speaker 3:
And ultimately, at the end of the day, he has no expectation that we can be perfect. That's why he sent Messiah to die in our place, and it's really a condition of our heart. Deuteronomy, chapter 8, verse 2,. God says now you know, i brought you out of Egypt and I brought you through the wilderness all of these years to test you, to prove you, to see whether or not it was in your heart to keep my commandments, and that gets into here.
Speaker 2:
I mean, you met this girl, you wanted to date. You were lost, but she led you ultimately that, trying to that, going to church with her, hearing the gospel, you got saved, met the Lord, you went into southeastern. You have the blindness before that You have overcome the cancer, which was what 90% terminal.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, back then the one form is called embryo carcinoma. I came with a 90% kill rate and mainly it was because you didn't know you had it. It was very aggressive and you didn't know you had it until it was too late. I was hemorrhaging into my tumor. So now I and it was testicular cancer. So that's you know. It's an area you're not supposed to have pain.
Speaker 1:
Right.
Speaker 3:
And I even. So, it took me about a month to go get checked out because I was embarrassed. I thought, oh my gosh, what in the world would you know? I didn't know.
Speaker 1:
I didn't have insurance, right I?
Speaker 3:
thought it would pass, whatever it was. Yeah, yeah, and it didn't. And I had no choice but, to you know, humble myself and go get checked out. But I thank God today for strange things Like thank you, Lord, for hemorrhaging tumors, because everything works together for good.
Speaker 2:
Amen. But you, you've been through all this, You've even flown and you've you've ridden them. You had a minor cycle.
Speaker 3:
You driven Scuba dive, you scuba dive, you certified dive, oh wow, oh goodness, yeah Was Yeah.
Speaker 2:
You're married with two kids, when really that was questionable at one time. I would think Yeah, because of the cancer that was located.
Speaker 3:
Thankfully, thankfully, both the tumors were just in one, so amen, You know, they just they just said. the only you know warning was that I waited at least six months because of the chemotherapy And it's you know it turned out to be, you know, many years before I met my wife and had kids and praised God.
Speaker 3:
They. My dad, was a certified genius. He worked in the nuclear sub program at Raytheon. That's where I met my mama and my kids. God bless them. They, they seemed to picked up that gene and you know, unfortunately for me it skips a generation. But they're, they're they're, they're good.
Speaker 1:
Oh my goodness, don't do that.
Speaker 2:
Well, i think, when we hear this, you know I read your book, i've heard you your story, your testimony.
Speaker 3:
It's amazing.
Speaker 2:
Um, we can see how God can take a mess, yes, and turn to a message for his glory, for our good, absolutely. And your story does just that. Yes, um, was there a time, real quickly, jeff, um, rabbi, jeff, that you questioned God? Oh, absolutely Yeah.
Speaker 3:
Yeah, absolutely. I'm not not not proud of it, but I mean I think everyone in their walk at one point starts to question what am I really?
Speaker 1:
doing Right.
Speaker 3:
What, what, what does go? is this even real? And I think one of my, and oddly enough it had to do with money, um it was uh, right before I met my wife, uh, I was working at that classic rock station. I was part-time at this point, uh, living in a little tiny 600 square foot apartment behind the radio station And I just my just a financial mess. I don't think I had the medical debt paid off, quite that, that point, And still student loan debt, all kinds of mess, Yeah.
Speaker 1:
And.
Speaker 3:
I just was struggling to make, to make it through the months, and I don't remember exactly if it was on television or on the radio, but I had put some sort of Christian program on and of course they were just talking about the tithe And I lost my mind. Yeah, something triggered in me and I just got so angry And I, and it's kind of godly. You know, this is the one area he tells us we can test him. And and I I shook my fist toward heaven and I tell people I don't recommend you pray like this. But I did. Right, god is merciful. But I was like I don't understand why.
Speaker 3:
money is, you know, so important to you And if you know, if it's fine, if it's that important to you here, take it all, I don't care, I can't, can't do anything with it anyway. And I had literally just gotten paid and I gave 100% of that paycheck and had no idea how I was going to survive. And I, I again, this isn't a prosperity thing, This is just a obedience to the. This is a the word thing.
Speaker 1:
Nobody prongs me a blessing.
Speaker 3:
Nobody I wasn't given to get. I was frustrated and I wanted to see either you're real or you're not. And within an amazingly short time, gifts came, hours and hourly rate increased. At the radio station I met, met, met my wife, and you know she was a woman that you know. She had already graduated from college and zero debt, had her own home and her car was paid off Nice And and and I just kept telling her.
Speaker 3:
I'm like, listen, you don't want to be a woman, i'm a mess, i'm, i'm, you know. and then, when things started getting serious, i'd say, listen, i, i, this is, this is who I am. This is where I'm at Right. Yeah, I mean I never want it said that I'm like after you for anything And she's like I don't care about any of that stuff And you know, praise.
Speaker 1:
God all these years later. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:
I'm a, i'm a blessed man. So that was that was kind of my my major moment, and God showed up.
Speaker 2:
That is amazing.
Speaker 1:
One more question and we'll that's awesome, i conclude.
Speaker 2:
But what? what would you recommend to the some people out there maybe going through similar or other types of storms or hurricanes in their life and they're struggling, they're in the desert, they're in a category five hurricane of their life? What would you recommend to them? Honor?
Speaker 3:
God, honor God. You know this is the one verse. I've already mentioned that dude around me. Chapter eight, verse two. It keeps coming up over and over in messages this year And I think it is. It is key to understand that. You know it's. Those are actual events, that actual people and actual places in an actual time. It all happened. But there's also metaphoric application that that we place in life in general. God says I took you out of Egypt. In Hebrew that's Mitzrayim. It literally is a prison, a place of bondage or closed in space. It's a picture of God taking us out of sin. Yes, that's when we got saved And then we wander through the wilderness. That 40 years is indicative of our lives, right.
Speaker 1:
Mm hmm.
Speaker 3:
And God says I tested you to prove you, You know? oh, we want to blame the devil for anything and I'm never, ever, ever, ever going to come to his defense, But the fact is he is an agent that the Lord uses and gives permission to accomplish his purposes.
Speaker 3:
And what are his purposes? All God wants he just wants to know are in your heart to keep my commands. Are you going to serve me even if you're blind? Are you going to serve me even if you're facing cancer? Are you going to serve me even if your family leaves you? And that's what it is. God has no expectation that we can do it. He just wants our hearts, because he wants to spend eternity with people who really want to be with him.
Speaker 1:
That is amazing.
Speaker 2:
That is so amazing. It takes far greater faith in God to keep believing through crisis and through testing than to have things going well. And I think that your faith and others that have gone through the storms of life just show and authenticate the faith that you all have.
Speaker 1:
Definitely, definitely, and we are going to have you on for another episode. We're so excited, so we're going to go ahead and end this episode now, but you all got to come back for the next one, so don't forget that.
Speaker 2:
God can take your mess, turn to a message for His glory, for your good.