Episode 26: Navigating Personal Relationships as a Therapist featuring Lisa Peacock

Navigating personal relationships as a therapist can be tricky. Lisa Peacock, LCSW and I explore the challenges our growth as therapists can have on our closest relationships and the boundaries that are essential to maintain healthy, close, intimate relationships. 

OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:

• Lisa’s website
• Counseling Community TikTok
• Jennifer Agee coaching page
• Counseling Community Facebook community
• Counseling Community Instagram
• Alaskan Cruise: Experiential Therapeutic Intervention Training for Therapists June 3-10, 2023
• Portugal Marketing Retreat October 2-7, 2023

Transcript

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Jennifer Agee: Hello, hello and welcome to Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School. I am your host Jennifer Agee, licensed clinical professional counselor. And with me today is Lisa Peacock. Lisa is a licensed clinical social worker in Kansas, Missouri, and South Carolina. She runs a private practice. And I am really glad she's on the podcast today, and I can't wait for the topic that we're gonna discuss. So welcome to the show. 

Lisa Peacock: Hi. Thanks for inviting me. 

Jennifer Agee: So, tell me, what is something you wish you learned in grad school? 

Lisa Peacock: Well, one of the things I wish I had learned in grad school is how to, um, maintain a balance between my business life and my marital life, or my relationships, all of my relationships. And I think, um, throughout this process since grad school, um, it's been a learning process, um, all along. And I think I've gotten to a sweet spot. And so, I look forward to sharing some of these things, um, in this podcast that may help some of the other providers out there in the community. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. And I know I've been married a long time. I've been married 28 years. And how long have you been married? 

Lisa Peacock: Well, this marriage is three. Uh, 11 years.

Jennifer Agee: Okay. 

Lisa Peacock: But I'm on my third husband, so I'm gonna be transparently there for, for all that. Um, it is a hit-and-miss. So, you know, we both have two different ways on how we got to the space that we're at now. 

Jennifer Agee: Absolutely. Yeah. And I, I agree. I think it's, it's great to have, um, therapists that have a little more miles on us sometimes to, to also share our stories so that newer therapists can understand some of the, the nuanced ways that being a therapist impacts our friendships and our intimate relationships as well. Some of the pitfalls to avoid, um, and some ways that you can maybe fireproof some of those relationships as well. 

Lisa Peacock: Exactly. Exactly. In the field in which we work in, while we're servicing or serving populations, we hear nuggets as well that we, we put in our back pockets, and then, you know, we out, you know, we put 'em into play in our, in our lives in order to maintain that balance. So it's not stuff that I learned in grad school. It's not stuff I learned in church. It's not stuff I learned in home. It's stuff I learned, period. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. Just, just as a part of the life experience. At one of the ways that I have noticed, um, there's been a big impact on my relationships is the fact that as a therapist, I am privy to a huge amount of varying different viewpoints, experiences in life, ways of walking through the world that has really expanded my awareness and my compassion at a rate that honestly is faster than a lot of the people around me. Because who else gets to sit in, you know, 5, 6, 8 sessions, you know, sessions a day with wildly different personalities and experiences? And, and that expands our worldview. It expands our way of looking at the world or our compassion towards others when we see a situation unfolding. And that for sure has been something that I know I have had to navigate in some of my friendships, is that sometimes I, I have... The experience that I have, brings me into difference with other people in my life who have not had the same level of experience.

Lisa Peacock: Exactly. And the, the being mindful for... Initially when I got out of grad school, I processed externally with people who, um, may not been able to handle hearing, uh, struggles — of course, ethically, not placing names or anything — but saying, man, I had a, a little girl today who really touched my heart, or something like that. And realizing externally that the things that I have been skilled with being able to handle in those hours and hours and hours of engagement, is not something that anybody else I know other than another clinician can handle. And therefore, I've learned to, um, where it needs to go. It doesn't actually stay with me — the, the trauma stuff that I may have heard for the last six hours or whatever — um, I've learned how to wash it away by not, um, sitting in it after work and also by not re-engaging. I had a situation yesterday where a client — you know, there will be things that you wish you never heard. 

Jennifer Agee: Absolutely. 

Lisa Peacock: And, I have just a, um, handful of those throughout my lifespan of work. And so, I had one that was added to the list yesterday. And I told my husband as I came out of my closed office space, and I said, wow, I had, I was told something I wish I never was told. I said, I would never share it with you because I would never wanna share the secondary trauma. They're not equipped. They're not equipped to, to handle secondary trauma. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Lisa Peacock: And so, um, so I did say, you know, that something occurred. I heard something that I wish I had not heard, and then I went to do self-care. And he has gotten to a place in our years where he understands that self-care is a requirement in order for him to be married, um, blissfully to a, to a therapist.

Jennifer Agee: Right. Right. If we are not in balance, that definitely has a ripple effect in our relationships, for sure. And I know sometimes I'll, you know, I will have tough sessions. Um, and when my husband gets home, he'll say, how was your day? And I'll say, it was just a rough one. And he'll give me a hug. And there's nothing he needs to do. You know, I'm doing all the things I know I need to do, but sometimes, you know, you just need a hug or you just need someone to understand to be gentle with you that evening because your brain is busy processing, um, what has happened during the day. And some of those days are easier to process and others. You know, they're gonna kick around for a little bit throughout the evening. As much as I try desperately not to let things you know, um, cross, it used to be cross the threshold of my door, but now that I work from home mostly it's, it's really my office door. Um, and some days are easier to do that than others for sure. 

Lisa Peacock: Exactly. When we first opened our, um, my practice, I thought that I would be able to have my husband assist in some several different ways, like, you know, answer the phone or, um, even verify insurances for me, or- There was never a moment where we were able to both work together in the practice. So there has to be a threshold for us where he's not involved in this, and I don't bring this out into the family where, just like you, I'm at home. So, when the door is closed, I'm not here. But when the door is open, it's Lisa's home. And so, long as he's not, um, he, we understand the boundaries of like what the day looks like. And therefore the evening needs to be more family-based and not a continuance of the office, which a lot of times has been very hard in the beginning of the practice building where the office never got closed. And there would be times where I would come out of the office space, but bring my work into the family space, and he would often say, when can I make an appointment?

Jennifer Agee: Ooh, that's convicting. That's a very convicting statement to hear.

Lisa Peacock: It was, and we've had to do some talk around where he fits in, where I fit in, where the office fits in, what is our mission, what are we trying to accomplish. This is a solo practice. I have no one else but me, and it is very successful. But it requires flexibility from family members, but it also requires that I make the space for the marriage as well.

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Lisa Peacock: So, I take days off. I took the whole month of August off. I make sure that he and I, and all the people I care about, have their time, just like the appointments have their time. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah, and that, that kind of brings me back to some of the pitfalls I think, um, I've made younger in life, not necessarily, um, with my husband, although some of these have played out. But a lot of us, as, as therapists, are just natural helper-healers of the world, right? We're naturally very compassionate, often very empathic, so we can pick up on things other people aren't picking up on. We may pick up on patterns and nuanced ways that an eye twitched when no one else noticed. Like we're very in tune with the world, and sometimes, that has drawn, drawn the helpers and healers into relationships that were not healthy. Those, those giftings can be used against us until we use, learn how to use those gifts, right? We go into rescuer mode, we partner up with people who maybe, um, need, need healing, or is that is really the primary role they kind of need from us. And maybe we kind of like that role of feeling like we're the, the rescuer, we're gonna make them better, we're gonna get them on their feet, or whatever it is. So, there's a thousand ways that our natural, beautiful gifts can work against us unless we have good, healthy boundaries around them. 

Lisa Peacock: I agree. When my husband and I go out to dinner, uh, he will jokingly tell people, uh, she's assessing you. I don't want that imagery. I don't want them to feel that way. So, lots of times, I've tried to minimize, when I'm out socially, anything connected to mental health or wellness or anything like that. Even in, uh, in church settings, when mental health comes out, I know that's like a, a bell for Lisa, but I can't answer all bells. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And, um, I always tell people- Here's my comeback when people say, oh, I bet you're diagnosing me. I say, you haven't paid me, so I'm not. I'm not on the clock, you know? 

Lisa Peacock: That's a good one.

Jennifer Agee: But I do get that. Even when you're sitting — I was on a plane yesterday coming home from visiting with some friends — and I was sitting there and the conversation comes up, oh, what do you do? You know, just like small chit-chat on the plane. And there's this part of me that sometimes would like to just pick anything else, you know? 'Cause you know, once you say, I'm a licensed clinical professional counselor or I'm a mental health provider, whatever, um, the, then some story is gonna come out. And sometimes we just don't wanna be on the clock. 

Lisa Peacock: That's so true. And if nothing else comes out of this, is the, the transparency around helpers not always wanting to be helping. Not because we don't care, but walking in a store, and one time, and there was a girl with a black eye, and my husband says, go help her. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm. 

Lisa Peacock: She's in the store, herself, shopping, minding her business. We noticed that, but that is not something that, you know, to go run to. But he saw a need and assumed it was for me to go fill. And had to ex, I had to explain to him in those margins that if she wanted help, you know, there, there are resources available, so on and so forth, and that all things we see does not require my attention. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. But I also think it's a testament to the fact that your husband understands that you are someone who, who is, could help, right? You do have that ability. You do have that, you know, superpower in his mind. So if he sees a hurt, his compassionate parts go, I know who can make that better. And so, although you had to kind of set a healthier boundary around, look this, she's minding her own business; she hasn't invited me into that space with her. And although there are certain moments where I have certainly stepped in because I've seen something and I have felt prompted to do so, if I'm not feeling a strong to have to step into something, I don't because I wasn't invited into that space. Um, so kind of being aware of that. Just 'cause you see something doesn't necessarily mean then it becomes yours to manage, deal with, or jump in. Really pay attention to your instincts of, is this something that where I feel like I'm being prompted? And for me it's, uh, I'm a Christian, so it's, do I feel the prompting of the Holy Spirit to intervene in this moment, or is, am I just aware of this because I noticed things? 

Lisa Peacock: We were actually on vacation at that mo- moment when we noticed this young lady. Um, but I agree with you in the him realizing his wife is the helper. But there's another side of that aspect as well for when we in the... are having to help outside of office hours, and there are moments where most of the time my hand, my phone is in my hand for some reason, and in those regards, he will say things such as, you are on Facebook again. Well, Facebook is a business. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. Yeah. 

Lisa Peacock: And so, in order, you know, for him to understand that that Facebook post is not me taking time away from you. It is the helping to the people who this post is going out to. And so that balance of when he looks at me to rescue or help or whatever, but also don't forget, hey, I'm sitting here, pay attention to me as well.

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Lisa Peacock: You know? So, it's the, the helper is, is always scanning the room...

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. 

Lisa Peacock: At all times. 

Jennifer Agee: I agree. And you bring up a great point. I, I am an entrepreneur as well. You know, I run a couple businesses. My brain does not shot up, shut off when it comes to, um, dreaming, and envisioning, and putting things into action that I see. An entrepreneur's mind is always scanning and is always seeing opportunity. And it's not in my nature to just let opportunities sit there if I get excited by it. And I have to be very mindful of that. My daughter actually really called me out on it about a month ago. Uh, she's 26, so she's an adult, but she comes over like once a week and we watch — I call it my trash TV time — we watch Married at First Sight together. Shout out to Married at First Sight. Love that show. And uh, you know, we just chat and mostly pause and then gossip in between and then unpause and keep watching. But she pointed out, Mom, you are on your phone a lot now. Like, are you working all this time? And I really had to pause and take inventory and I said, you know, honey, since you and your brother left home, um, I don't have as many responsibilities. And I really flipping love what I do, and so to me it doesn't feel like work. But that awareness of, even though it doesn't feel like work, if I am doing that in the time and in the space that is set aside and is very intentional, is supposed to be very intentional, for my loved ones, I need to give that time to my loved ones. So, I, I really, she checked me in a very gentle and loving way, and I had to receive that, because she was a hundred percent right. I was on my phone when I was with her, and that's my one hour a week with, I get with my girl. Like, that's my time to put my freaking phone down and just be present, and I wasn't doing it.

Lisa Peacock: I noticed that I needed to turn the notifications off. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Lisa Peacock: So that I am not being pulled to the phone, even when the phone isn't, um, being used. And I have made an intentional, um, notice to tell my husband, hey, look, I'm not on my phone. Hey, look, I don't have my laptop with me. You know, and I try to not take the laptop into the bedroom. I, we don't have a TV in our bedroom. 

Jennifer Agee: We don't either. 

Lisa Peacock: We do try to maintain the boundaries of, um, quality time as much as possible, but he has learned through grad school and through experiencing, um, this practice that even though it's Christmas Eve, I have to be on the phone with a client who may not be well. There are moments where I have to say, this is not a choice for me to be engaged in something other than what we were doing previously, um, in a crisis moment. And there will be times where he will say things such as, you're not 911. Well, there's, he doesn't understand the grayness of what those three numbers mean.

Jennifer Agee: Right. 

Lisa Peacock: And so, um, he has learned and I have learned where we need to maintain individuality, uh, space as a couple, and then the business. And each entity has been maturing through time. And we do standard love language quizzes. We do standard evaluations every marital anniversary. I put my work into my marriage, as well as into the practice.

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. And I think one of the points I wanna make — a takeaway from what Lisa said — is relationships can absorb these pulls of our time if we are intentional with the time, the majority of the time, right? So if 95% of the time when we say, uh, this is just our time together, and we're not checking our phone, and we're not engaging in work, and we're not being pulled away on calls, in those 5% when we have to step away because some- we're managing a crisis or, or something is coming up, it can absorb that without being too much of a problem because you've been consistent the other times. It's when you're not consistent in giving your people in your life your time and energy in an intentional way, that when that happens, it's one more time that you've been taken away from them, or that you're not present with them, or disconnected from them. So, that's kind of the... I want you to hear that little nugget, listeners, and take that away. Be intentional when you can. Be intentional so that in those times that you really need to be with a client during a time where it was time for your spouse or your family or whatever, they can, they can absorb that much easier and understand with compassion that that's just not what you normally do.

Lisa Peacock: Exactly, exactly. And as long as we are actively using our listening skills and understanding, um, our family member, our partner, our child, whomever, is important in our lives, 'cause we can put their shoes on a lot easier than they know how to put our shoes on. 

Jennifer Agee: Sure. Yeah. Well, and I wanna transition into talking about friendship and your intimate relationships. Um, so actually my husband and I had this conversation, um, not too long ago. I have been exposed to a lot more than he's been exposed to, right? Um, and my views on certain things, that I would say are considered hot button topics maybe, have shifted and grown as my exposure to different people has grown, as my awareness of, of looking at issues in greater ways or more expansive ways has grown. And he's not exposed to the same information that I'm exposed to, the same people's life experiences and things like that. And we were kind of coming into, not disagreement, but just this, I don't know, this weird space where it no longer felt like we were in alignment about, about certain things that were coming up. And one day we just went on a walk, and he said, I feel like I'm losing my wife. Like, am I gonna lose my wife? And I said, you are not gonna lose me as long as we stay friends. I have known him since I was 19 years old. You have been my best friend since I was a kid, basically. And we have been friends through every season of our life. And I'm 48 now, and there's been a lot of seasons. He's been married to several different women within this period of time, and vice versa, as happens as you grow and mature. And I said, we have to just make sure we stay friends, and we talk as friends, and we take... Nobody's leaving anybody. No. You know, all of that stuff is off the table. I am coming to you as my friend because this shit is hard to talk about. It's hard to think about. It's hard to wrestle with. And there's no one in the world I want to talk about those things with like you, and I need you to be that guy, not the guy who's worried about our relationship. I'm not worried about that part. Like, that part's gonna be fine if we stay friends. And I think as you're changing and growing, you have to keep the friendship in mind in all of your relationships. Um, and, and when you're, I know once we had that conversation, it was, like, this massive tension just, it just went away because the security was given back. This isn't a relationship issue. This is I need my friend issue. That's that space I need you to hold for me here. 

Lisa Peacock: I think with my friends, if I was gonna, um, transition to just straight friendships and my practice of friendships post grad school, I have come to realize that I have a lot of acquaintances.

Jennifer Agee: Mm. 

Lisa Peacock: And I have come to realize the need to be my own friend first. 

Jennifer Agee: Great point. 

Lisa Peacock: Um, I've come to realize that being in a sister-y sorority life is exhausting, and that it was not and is not beneficial to me as a helper because I don't know how to be a friend first and then a clinician second. And so, it's complicated with friendships for me, especially if the friend is in need and isn't seeking their own therapeutic support. They, um, inadvertently become, you know, a conversation that's heavy on their side and not, um, um, availability on my, you know, from, from me. So, I think if anything, the friendship category in regard to being a, um, a clinician, solo practice person, is, um, really small space for me. I am my friend. I know that may sound whatever to whomever, and it doesn't matter to me how it came across. But I have learned in my 55 years to become my own friend first, and then I will determine who goes second. Maybe it's not my husband. Maybe it's not a girlfriend. You know, maybe it's somebody who I met walking on the beach who, um, I can connect with better there. But I do think that friendships or um, need to be kinda evaluated as we go through, um, life and, and, and being a, a provider of care. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. And, you know, there are different types of friendships and different level of friendships. I know my closest friendships — really, I have two pods of very close friends that are wildly different, right? Um, I have a group of friends where the fact that I'm a therapist, just like the fact that someone might be an engineer or whatever, is maybe, maybe 2% of the, of what is known about the person, right? Um, the vast majority of what the relationships are built on are other things, other common interests or, you know, things like that. And the fact that I am a therapist, I'll get tagged in when something's going on, and I might, you know, they need a little guidance or whatever. The vast majority of time is never discussed. And then I have a pod of professional friends, right, where there's this shortcut, this life hack of, I don't have to say a ton of stuff for you to just get me and understand me. And that's honestly a huge part of the reason I started doing the retreat business is because I want therapists to have a space where they can get away and work on things where other people just automatically get it. We, we can life hack or just hack our way through conversations so much more easily around different topics around our business or, or how we're growing or different therapeutic things because we're all doing the same things. And so, although both sets are ex-, they are my closest friend groups, they are wildly different. And what is drawn out of me and what I draw out of others is wildly different based on the different types of friendships that they are. And that's okay. Not all friendships meet all needs. Totally fine. 

Lisa Peacock: I think since I moved, um, and had this location, I've isolated a bit away from friend groups, not because of um, any failings, but just by moving away. And I think that is where I've become more en- engaged with myself primarily in the balance. Because when I was in Kansas City, primarily, it was the give, give, give, give, give. And now it's Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, and give, give, give. Where I think in the... what I wish I had learned was don't lose Lisa in the give, give, give. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. I think as, um, as therapists, we are very prone to become over-functioners for others under-functioning. It's very easy for us to, um, take the reins and step in and, and manage, and forget that we are a part of the dynamic of the relationship, that we are not the one who has to be the rescuer in the relationship, the one who has to be the doer, the organizer of the events, the whatever it is. Because a lot of times those things come very naturally to us. Uh, it's important to remember that's not necessarily your role. And when we've gone through a season of over-functioning — and every single therapist listening to this, you will go through a season of over-functioning; it's a part of, I think it's just a part of how we're made — um, you'll find that you'll probably go through a season like what Lisa's talking about where there's a step back. There's a pause. There's a deep inhale, exhale where you reset yourself. And these seasons are very normal. It doesn't mean you're, you shouldn't be a therapist anymore. It doesn't mean you're being a bad friend. It doesn't mean any of those things. It means you have probably poured out more than was wise for you to pour out, and it's time to take a breath and recenter yourself again. Totally normal.

Lisa Peacock: You said it exactly like I was feeling it as I was saying it. That's exactly so. And in order to maintain in the, um, field of service, we have to take those moments when we step back, recalibrate, maybe rebrand ourselves per se. Maybe you no longer want to work with children. Maybe you no longer want to work as a private practice person. You, you know, long as your licensed, you can go and do whatever. But that you're grounded and aware of where you are at any given point of your life in order to be able to serve.

Jennifer Agee: Yeah, absolutely. And the older you get, the more time with yourself you spend, obviously, and you get to know yourself and what you need better. And give yourself permission to pivot and change that. I know I've pivoted and changed things many times as I've grown to know myself better in what I need in different seasons of life. And as long as you communicate that so that the people closest to in your life know what's going on and know how to interpret those shifts and changes, you're gonna be, you're gonna be just fine. But it's okay for you to allow yourself to grow and change. Perfectly OK. 

Lisa Peacock: Even if the, um, the change is only seen from the inside and maybe not even displayed on the outside, but that you know your vantage point has improved through engagement with people. That you're not just sitting and doing a job, but that you’re servicing their needs and also receiving, because in that arena we also, um, grow as people and professionally, we grow. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. Well, I think you're bringing up a good point, which is, um, you know, a lot of us got into this 'cause we have our own battle scars of life, right? I mean, and in part, that probably is what made us compassionate or made us more in tune with the nuanced of things that are happening in a room and understanding how those parts come out in relationships. I can give you an example. One of the ways, um, that comes out for me is I am a hyper independent woman. I have been a very independent woman. I can rely on myself to get things done. I can, I, I know at the end of the day, I got it, right? And my husband is a very capable man, and even to this day, after 28 years, I rely on him for lots of things, and it's not an issue, but it peaks up every once in a while. I will go unload groceries or take my bags out of the car, and I will pack mule myself with literally everything. And he'll just be standing there, and he'll say, hey, Jen, you wanna hand me one of those things? You're gonna let me do any of this for you? You know? And because my automatic response is, I got it, I can take care of it, I don't need anyone to take care of it, it's my thing, I have to deal with it. And so that is one of the things that in relationship has actually helped me grow is having a stable partner who I know I actually can trust to handle things. It's an area of helping me grow as well. I mean, as partnerships and friendships, we do help each other grow. But that's one of them he's definitely helped me with over the years. But still, sometimes I'll put 20, uh, bags of groceries on, and he'll just be standing like, hey, Jen, want me to help you out here?

Lisa Peacock: Whenever I have, in the past, asked my husband in regard to helping, in regard to the office, can you please take this mail, and I need a, um, proof of mail receipt so that I can track it. He comes back from the post office empty-handed. I said, where's the receipt, um, tracking number? Oh, you didn't need that. So, I never sent them to the mail again. Um. 

Jennifer Agee: Oh, geez. 

Lisa Peacock: I realized that there are things that we can blend and work together in, and there are things that are not his strong suit and will affect our nighttime connection. So, no, we're not, I'm not gonna push him to, to help me in the office. I just want him, like you said, to be the friend who understands getting this practice up and running and successfully, circularly handling things can be hard and has been hard. There has been moments where I will come out of the office, and I'm crying cause I am literally exhausted, overwhelmed, and too many things in the air. And I got the empathy that I needed from him. He couldn't do anything to help or fix it, you know? He, he said, okay, we're gonna start getting you out of that room at a certain time. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm. 

Lisa Peacock: But then I would stay in the room and try to justify why. So that type of friendship is there in regard to us in the office and things, but in the emotional balance part and that whole, you know, self-care part is where I was referring to the me-boundary.

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and it sounds like you're talking about even allowing yourself to be nurtured by your partner, right? Of him, them saying, honey, let's get you out of the room at a certain time because your balance is way off, and it's affecting how you're feeling. My husband will just say, honey, let's go for it — he knows the water's my favorite place; Shawnee Mission Park is close to my house, so, uh — I'll know he knows when I need a break because he will just drive to the park, and we'll go to the water. And, uh, whenever we leave someplace, he just happens to drive by Shawnee Mission Park, and he'll be like, why don't you just look at the water, Jen? But you have to allow yourself to receive that and not be like, no, I need to get da, da da da da. This person who cares about you, they see things that we don't see because it's ourselves. We're too busy being the helper sometimes to sometimes see little things that they might pick up because they know us well too. And how can we also allow ourselves to be nurtured by them, I think is great. What would be one of your top, top one or two pieces of, of, advice or wisdom, I would say wisdom instead of advice, for therapists newer to the field and navigating relationships?

Lisa Peacock: Definitely to be mindful of your partner. And as you previously stated, if your partner is someone who does need a, um, support system, that they should be reached out to instead of receiving it from you. If they are in need of depression or addiction or whatever type of, um, care in order to be their very best self in the relationship, that care needs to come from someone other than you. I would, um, make sure that a new clinician would, would be mindful of where their partner is in life. Secondly, I would make sure that a new clinician or, or any of us consistently maintain the me part of you. The... 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. 

Lisa Peacock: Not the wife, not the daughter, not the friend, not the entrepreneur, not the church member. But what do you still do for you? When do you do it? Why is it on the schedule? 'Cause we are scheduled people. If you're gonna ask me what I'm doing October the 11th, I'll tell you I gotta get my calendar. I'm a scheduled person, so I schedule wellness as well. And so, I would say that we consistently should be showing up on our own calendars for ourselves because we'll do the other scheduling. Um, and then the other aspect is, is to use the tools that you have in your toolbox for your own marriage, your own relationships. Pull out the love language quiz. Pull out all you know, go to a marriage retreat that you recommend to other clients. You know, do the things that you issue, do it at home as well. 'Cause your partners deserve the marriages and the relationships and all the enrichment that you're offering to others started at home first. 

Jennifer Agee: Absolutely, by example. And as you were speaking, it made me think of the fact that even Clark Kent, Superman, right, he didn't wear a cape all the time, right? About 80% of his life was spent in glasses just doing life. It wasn't rescuing and doing all these great, tremendous things. It was just living life. And, and it's okay for us to not have our red cape on and to just be present in our lives, enjoy our lives, and know that because we have these, some of these wonderful giftings that make us excellent therapists, it doesn't mean that they have to be in use at all times. We just know they're at the ready. They're in our pocket. At any point in time, we whip out that, that cape and then we can fly to whatever needs to, to be dealt with. But you don't wear it all the time and that's okay. Good, healthy boundaries, and especially if you were in a romantic relationship with someone, continue to be friends and allow the friendship part of your relationship to really grow. Because as you're growing, evolving, and changing — and you will, with all the trainings you're going to, with all the times you're sitting with other clients — you are going to be evolving and changing in a different way because of your exposure than your partner. Keep that friendship in mind. Lisa, thank you so much for this conversation and for coming on today. Tell people how they can connect with you. 

Lisa Peacock: I'm on Facebook and TikTok on the Peacock Counseling. And the TikTok page, I'll post, um, an ocean, um, scene with some type of mantra on it. And then on the Facebook page, I'll post other types of enrichment, um, posting. And I welcome those pages to anyone. You don't have to be a client. You don't have to live in Kansas City or, or even South Carolina to be on either one of the pages. 

Jennifer Agee: Wonderful. If you wanna connect more with me or if you'd like to come to a retreat to enhance your clinical skills, I actually have an Alaskan cruise coming up in June that is a completely experiential technique, um, training so that you can have a skill set when you come back of different things you can start doing with clients. So, if you're interested in that, please see the website below in the description. And I will link Lisa's socials as well. You can find me on all the social media platforms, and I hope that you get out there and you live your best dang life.