Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School with Jennifer Agee, LCPC

Season 2 Episode 4: Brand Marketing: What You Need to Know featuring Kelly Lynch

February 08, 2023 Jennifer Agee, LCPC Season 2 Episode 4
Season 2 Episode 4: Brand Marketing: What You Need to Know featuring Kelly Lynch
Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School with Jennifer Agee, LCPC
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Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School with Jennifer Agee, LCPC
Season 2 Episode 4: Brand Marketing: What You Need to Know featuring Kelly Lynch
Feb 08, 2023 Season 2 Episode 4
Jennifer Agee, LCPC

Kelly Lynch, EMT, LCSW discusses what therapists need to know about brand marketing. Kelly provides clear and actionable steps to begin identifying and curating your brand. 

Kelly Lynch is an EMT, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Life Coach, Personal Fitness Trainer, and Nutrition Coach. She has been supporting humans through their journeys and challenges for over 20 years, beginning as an EMT in 2002, and moving into the mental health field in 2009. Kelly launched her private practice, Turning Point Wellness, in 2014, and specializes in Acute Stress and Post Traumatic Stress Injuries in EMS professionals.

Kelly launched The GRIIT Project in 2022, and offers performance and business coaching through her transformational coaching system of GRIIT. With the five pillars of GRIIT – Growth, Resilience, Identity, Integrity, and Training – she teaches good therapists how to become great, and to build better lives and businesses through authenticity, alignment, and abundance.

OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:

  • Kelly’s website - download FREE PDF, order workbook or coaching
  • Counseling Community TikTok
  • Jennifer Agee coaching page
  • Counseling Community Facebook community
  • Counseling Community Instagram
  • Alaskan Cruise: Experiential Therapeutic Intervention Training for Therapists June 3-10, 2023

Portugal Marketing Retreat October 2-7, 2023

Show Notes Transcript

Kelly Lynch, EMT, LCSW discusses what therapists need to know about brand marketing. Kelly provides clear and actionable steps to begin identifying and curating your brand. 

Kelly Lynch is an EMT, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, Life Coach, Personal Fitness Trainer, and Nutrition Coach. She has been supporting humans through their journeys and challenges for over 20 years, beginning as an EMT in 2002, and moving into the mental health field in 2009. Kelly launched her private practice, Turning Point Wellness, in 2014, and specializes in Acute Stress and Post Traumatic Stress Injuries in EMS professionals.

Kelly launched The GRIIT Project in 2022, and offers performance and business coaching through her transformational coaching system of GRIIT. With the five pillars of GRIIT – Growth, Resilience, Identity, Integrity, and Training – she teaches good therapists how to become great, and to build better lives and businesses through authenticity, alignment, and abundance.

OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:

  • Kelly’s website - download FREE PDF, order workbook or coaching
  • Counseling Community TikTok
  • Jennifer Agee coaching page
  • Counseling Community Facebook community
  • Counseling Community Instagram
  • Alaskan Cruise: Experiential Therapeutic Intervention Training for Therapists June 3-10, 2023

Portugal Marketing Retreat October 2-7, 2023

Jennifer Agee: Hello. Hello. And welcome to Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School. I'm your host, Jennifer Agee, licensed clinical professional counselor. And with me today is Kelly Lynch. Kelly is a therapist, coach, she's an EMT licensed clinical social worker, a life coach, a personal fitness trainer, and a nutrition coach. Holy cow. Is that a mouthful? You are one busy lady. 

Kelly Lynch: It's alphabet soup, right? 

Jennifer Agee: It is. Um, I invited Kelly on today to talk about branding because that is such an important part of running a business, and she actually started a whole project called The GRIIT Project, and I'm gonna let her talk about that. But first of all, welcome to the show.

Kelly Lynch: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah, me too. Kelly and I are actually friends, so I know her in real life. She's a phenomenal human being, and if she tells you something, uh, you better believe it because she offers high-quality content. 

Kelly Lynch: Thank you. 

Jennifer Agee: You're welcome. Um, so tell me a little bit, first, I wanna hear a little bit about GRIIT Project. 

Kelly Lynch: So, I, I developed GRIIT as a way to actually help one of my therapy clients. Uh, I, you know, was in the space of struggle with this one particular client who was just at, like, things just kept happening in their life. And they were really having a hard time being able to work through, you know, how do they keep their mindset squared away and how do they bounce back from all of these different things that they were facing that was really creating a lot of adversity for them without losing touch with who they are in the process of it all. And so, I, it's such a silly kind of goofy story, but I was in the shower one day thinking about this person and how, how in the heck am I gonna help them? How am I gonna support them to walk through this process? And I started thinking about mindset, and here comes growth. And then I started thinking about self-care. Well, here comes resilience. And then I started thinking about their, their challenges around identity and how do they stay in touch with who they are. Here comes identity. So GRIIT ended up evolving as a way to try to help my, my therapy clients. Uh, it stands for growth, resilience, identity, integrity, and training. But in the process of developing this system to support the, my, my people on the therapy side of things, what I realized is that this is also just how I've lived my life. This is a system that I didn't know that I was living according to, but always felt it. There was always a part of me that said, well, this is, I'm, if I face something, I'm just gonna get back up and keep going. And, you know, there's always been a part of me that has been the, the idea of GRIIT that I'm trying to put out into the world, uh, that has been just, let's figure out a plan, let's work through it, and let's move on. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. 

Kelly Lynch: So that is GRIIT. 

Jennifer Agee: I love it. And I love that resiliency is in there because what I found is that is one of the most important components to being a business owner and an entrepreneur because... 

Kelly Lynch: Absolutely. 

Jennifer Agee: This way, this road is not always easy, obviously. And you are gonna have a lot of swings and misses. That's just a part of the journey. Um, and having that resiliency to say, that doesn't have to take me under. What can I learn from it? How can I get back up, dust myself off, pivot, and get going again? 

Kelly Lynch: Right. Exactly. And, you know, within that there's gonna be pieces to that, that are, you know, the mindset work of the "just because you're, you're, you got knocked down, it–" A, we need to validate that sometimes things are just hard, right? Like, sometimes things truly don't feel good, and we can honor that and hold space for it, but it doesn't mean that that has to be the period at the end of the sentence. It could be a comma where we pause, right? We might need to rest for a minute, but it doesn't have to be final.

Jennifer Agee: I love that. Yeah, I agree a hundred percent. Okay, so let's pivot, and I know this kind of goes in with GRIIT, but let's talk about branding because I know you do a lot of coaching around this area, and I think it's so important, especially as people are getting outta grad school and they have this idea of what they wanna do, but that scarcity kicks in that says, if I'm not a generalist and say I'm open to everything, that I'm not gonna fill that spot or get my hours in and that kind of stuff. So, talk to me a little bit about brand marketing. 

Kelly Lynch: Yeah. So, first, I'm gonna quote one of our friends, one of our, another one of our friends, Mr. Patrick Casale. And he always—I love the way that he says this, and I, I'm not ever gonna have a better way to say it, so I'm just gonna quote him here—that you cannot be the Applebee's of therapy.

Jennifer Agee: Yes. 

Kelly Lynch: And I, I love that he says that because he's so right. That, you know, if you're trying to speak to everyone—this is actually one of my favorite quotes—when you speak to everyone, you speak to no one. And at you, there's no way for you to differentiate yourself and stand out in the market if you are not very clear and specific on this is who I am, this is what I do, this is how I do it, this is why I do it. So, that's where branding really becomes a very important and necessary tool that as entrepreneur, therapists turned entrepreneurs, we need to learn this stuff so that we can figure out how can we really make ourselves stand out in a meaningful way in a very loud market right now. 

Jennifer Agee: It is a loud market, and, uh, standing out is important. What I have found is there's branding that starts to get done even if you are not taking control of the narrative. 

Kelly Lynch: Mm-hmm. 

Jennifer Agee: People are identifying who you are and what you stand for based on what they see on your social media, what they hear about you within the community. So, taking control of that and being the narrator of how you want that to go is really important in business. 

Kelly Lynch: Absolutely. And I, I think that that's a really good point that we need to kind of pause on here for a minute. So, first, I just want to define what branding is for everybody. Branding is not just about, you know, your color scheme or a, a slick logo, right? Branding is about the identity of your business, and it's also the way that your business is perceived in a particular market and the particular segment of that market that you're trying to speak directly to. So, this is gonna include the voice that you choose to speak in, right? So, uh, when I speak on my social media, there's some swear words that I may throw in there. There's some slang that I may throw in. Because that's all part of what my brand actually is. That's the voice of it. Then there's the aesthetics of your brand. That's where things like your logo and your color scheme come into play. But also on your website, do you have a really busy website? Do you have a very colorful website? Or is it more like neutral, muted tones that are very clean and very crisp? There isn't necessarily a particularly wrong way to do it, but you have to decide what is the identity that you're trying to create for this business that you're building, and then how do you want that identity to be perceived. So, how we position that really matters. 

Jennifer Agee: It does. And I think the first step in that is being really honest with yourself about who you are, who you aren't, um, what you wanna stand for, what you don't. Because those clarifying things of being no-bullshit honest with yourself, ... 

Kelly Lynch: Yeah. 

Jennifer Agee: Allow you to have an authentic brand where you're not having to overthink content because it's just genuinely the place of truth that you operate from. At least for me, I have found that to be the most helpful and effective. 

Kelly Lynch: Absolutely. The very first place that I begin with all of my branding clients is doing identity work. Because if we're not pulling out those core beliefs and core values that just inform who—forget about being a therapist; forget about being whatever else you are in your life—just who are you as a person, right? Like, let's look at those things before we look at anything else and really use that to color in the outline of what it is that you're trying to create. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And that, all these things start to then build on top of each other. So, really you can't skip that step because that is, that is the most foundational step on which you are going to build your brand. The honesty that takes place in doing that identity work. Y'all can't skip it, even though it's not always fun to be truthful about what you are and aren't. 'Cause we might see people that we really admire or respect in our field that we wish we could emulate parts of that, but the reality is if that's not authentic to who we are, that might not be a great thing to incorporate into your brand specifically. 

Kelly Lynch: Yeah. And I think the other piece that goes along with this too is that a really, a really well done, very aligned brand is going to both attract your ideal clients and it's also gonna repel other kinds of clients, because that's what it's supposed to do, right? We don't– Again, like, when you speak to everyone, you speak to no one. When we have that really clearly defined brand, we're not gonna be, we're not gonna be that place that everybody's like, oh yeah, that's the, that's the therapist for me or that's the coach for me. A good brand is supposed to turn some people off because that's how we start to really be able to differentiate ourselves in the market.

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. I can tell you just an anecdotal story or a part of me figuring this out for myself. That foundational work was, I cuss in real life. Obviously, Kelly knows this. She's been around me enough. Um, and my stress level is a huge indicator of how much I cuss. The more stressed, the more sailor-y I become. Just being honest. But my background is, um, I'm also known by a lot of people in my life as a Christian. I'm known that I was a former missionary and things like that. So, when it came to naming my podcast, right, Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School, there's a cuss word. 

Kelly Lynch: I love it. 

Jennifer Agee: The very first word. And I remember having this conversation with a friend we both know, Yunetta Smith, and I said, look, I also know that you are a Christian, and I need to run something by you because I'm really struggling with, with what I say behind the scenes versus what I feel I might be judged for or whatever. And she said, okay, do you want super judgey Christians to listen to this and give you a bunch of feedback? I said, absolutely not. I do not have the time to feel all of that hate. And she goes, well, then you have your answer. So, certain people are gonna see it and just not like it, and that's okay. And her, kind of, verbally helping me process that and come to terms with the fact that my, my genuine, authentic self does say Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School. I don't say stuff you wish you learned... I don't say that. 

Kelly Lynch: Right? 

Jennifer Agee: I say shit. And her kind of letting me process through that and go, you know what, no, I just need to own it. I just need to own it because that's my truth. That's how I actually talk. 

Kelly Lynch: Exactly. Exactly. I, you know, I think there's so much value in taking the time to look at these kinds of things and really just let it be okay that we're not supposed to attract everybody. And, you know, as therapists, that's gonna feel so counterintuitive because we're so taught, be accepting of everybody, pull everybody in, work with all of the people doing all of the things all of the time. But in the business world, that's not sustainable, right? And we're building practices that need to be sustainable and joyful to get to be in and to get to work on.

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, if you think of really almost any other industry, do you expect them not to niche? Do you want Nike serving you spaghetti? No, because Nike is really good at making tennis shoes, maybe also athletic wear, right? But, but you want them to be really freaking good in what you know them for. And the same thing is true with us. That, um, that we're a blank slate. We, you know, our personality and who we are doesn't exist. I think we're all in agreement that those days are long, long, long, long gone. Um, but if you think of yourself, you are running a business, okay? Like, we pretend like we're just therapists out here helping, but the truth is, if you're in private practice, you're running a company. And you need to act like you're running a company. A company niches; a company becomes known for something in the community so other people know this is who you go to for this specific thing. 

Kelly Lynch: Yeah. So, with that, I think we should also talk about mindset of the business owner because that's another big, really important piece of branding, and what branding involves, and what it needs to look like. So, there are two very distinctly part, different parts of the, the mindset that we have to have as clinicians turned entrepreneurs. There's the therapist part of your brain, which is the part of your brain that's gonna wanna lead everything when it comes to branding because doing therapy is what we know. Doing business is not necessarily what we know. Like, most of us didn't go to school to learn how to run a business. So, this is trial by fire for the good majority of us. So, but when we start to transition into the entrepreneurial world and being small business owners of private practices—that's how I refer to myself at this point—we have to learn about the mindset that's involved in being a business owner. So, as therapists, we're very concerned with what we know, what we can do, and how we do those things, right? As business owners, what we need to understand is what our, our customers or our clientele think of. They don't give two flying hoots about what we know. What they care about, and what they're going to focus on, is how we make them feel. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Kelly Lynch: And so, when we think about the process of branding, so much of what branding is not only is driven by who are we as human beings, right, like what are our core beliefs and our core values, you know, what, what feels most authentic and aligned, but also how do the things that we know impact our clients and what do they make our clients feel? The feeling part is the part that we need to communicate as we brand, right? So, like, this is where we need to start talking about who is our ideal client, and what are they dealing with? What are their pain points? What are, what does their life look like? Because that's all of the stuff that we then need to start talking about on our website, on our social media, in our directory profiles, right? Like, this is where that language starts to evolve. And then thinking about our specialization. So, one of the things that, that I talk about in terms of niching and specialty that is maybe controversial—I don't really know quite yet—uh, but one of the things that I really try and emphasize is that your ideal client is not actually your niche. And I don't know if everybody agrees with me on this, but I, I am gonna plant my flag really solidly in this ground. So, I really believe your, your ideal client is a, is a segment of a particular target market that you're trying to work with. And the service that you provide could be a very specialized service in terms of like EMDR or, or, um, IFS, or ACT, or all of the other alphabet soups of the therapy world. That's all great. And while it could be a specialized service, it is still just a service that you provide. The actual niche is the problem that you solve for your ideal client, right? And this is where we start having to look at very particular segments of different kinds of target markets and how our services impact those particular segments, right? So, an example I used, um, in a, uh, webinar that I did, uh, yesterday, um, was that talking about perinatal work, right? Like, perinatal work is so important for moms, but we could have a perinatal specialist who works only with first-time moms. We could have a perinatal specialist who only works with moms of multiples, right? Like, these are really specific segments of a particular target market, but the problems that we're helping those moms solve could be completely different problems. That's where the niche actually comes into play. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. I, I think those are great distinctions to think of. And, and as you are really starting to process this, you're listening to this, and you're starting to think, okay, what is it, who do I actually wanna work with? Who do I wanna serve? What problem do I wanna solve? And then what are the special skills that I have? What niche skills do I have that help meet the needs of that very specific population? That's a great way to look at it and start asking yourself really important questions to start to get to the bottom of what your brand is going to be based around. I wanna also kind of go into, for a minute, business ownership. You know that idea that you mentioned at the beginning of switching your mindset to being a business owner. 

Kelly Lynch: Mm-hmm. 

Jennifer Agee: I'll never forget one time I had a, um, coaching client, and they were saying, I just don't get why I'm full, why I'm not full. I've got this degree, that degree, I'm this, that, and the other. I said, what are you doing to work your business? Well, I've got my Psychology Today profile, and I said, hold on a minute, you're a small business owner. You're a startup company. Do you get that? You are a startup company. Have you ever met a startup business owner in your life that is not hustling their ass off to get people in the door, so to speak? Right? You're, they're meeting with people, they're putting their name out there, they're in lots of different groups to... You've got to work your business. That is a part of being a successful business owner is you have to shift your mindset from, just because I had these skills and I've done that, people will come to, um, I have this skillset and I wanna bring value to my community, so I'm building a business and a brand that is gonna let people in my community know I'm here and I'm here to serve them. When you make that switch, you think about your business in a very different way. 

Kelly Lynch: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's the know, like, trust factor, right? 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Kelly Lynch: So, in order to build a successful business and, you know, like a field of dreams kind of experience, build it and they will come, well, they're not gonna come if they don't know you exist, right? 

Jennifer Agee: Right. 

Kelly Lynch: So, you have to create your brand and then market it. You have to network. You have to go out into the community and say, hey, I'm here. Right? Like, I can help. Come to me, please. But then you also have to build enough of a relationship with the people that you network with and the way that you market in your community so that people actually start to like you and not just know you, right? So, they need to know that you exist first, then they need to like you, and in order to be willing to buy from you, they have to also trust you. This is where, you know, this, this idea of networking and really taking the time to build strong community relationships matters so much. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. And as you understand your brand, it is so much clearer to communicate your message in the elevator pitch, right? Most of us have heard somewhere along the way, you need an elevator pitch. Somebody gets in the elevator, they say, what do you do for a living? And you've got one-to-two lines to be able to bazinga them with, right? Like, a what it is you do and what you stand for. And I think getting that down allows you to be so much more effective in how you communicate your brand. I can't tell you how many really good clinicians I talk to, and I say, tell me what it is you do or what you specialize in, and I'll get a five-to-ten-minute ramble. I don't remember jack squat of what you said. I need you to give that to me basically in a bullet point format to where when I walk away, I go, oh, yeah, that's what she does. 

Kelly Lynch: Yep. Yep. And it, if you have that really clearly lined out, that's also gonna be clearly communicated in the context of your brand as well, right? Because that, that elevator pitch, I teach all of my coaching clients to write your vision statement and use that as your elevator pitch.

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Kelly Lynch: Um, so your purpose statement, your vision statement, and your mission statement are three really important statements that you need to have in the process of building your brand. Your purpose is your why. Your vision is your what. Your mission is your how. Just keep it simple. Each one should be maybe one-to-two sentences. I would say the, the purpose and the vision really should just be a singular sentence, right? Like really just keep it simple, very clear, direct, and to the point. When you have these things laid out in a, in a clear and cohesive way, that's where all, again, like between the these three statements, the ideal client kind of work, um, really understanding what problems do you actually want to solve for people. All of this stuff is how we create very clear messaging as we go out into the world with what it is that we do. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. I'll tell you; it was extremely helpful when, um, I started to understand who I was as a coach and who I was not. Uh, because my, my initial idea was I wanna help all these people run good businesses, da, da, da da.

Kelly Lynch: Sure. 

Jennifer Agee: And what I found as I was actually teaching and training more what I gravitate towards and what I'm really good at is business strategy. And so, now when people ask me, what kind of coaching do you do—'cause I get those emails all the time—I'll just say, I'm a strategic business coach. I can zoom out, take your vision, move around the 10 different pieces, put 'em in a good order, and then help you create the backend to make 'em flow. That's what I do, and I'm really good at that. It's the nerdy stuff lots of people don't like to do on the backend, but I really am good at that kinda stuff. 

Kelly Lynch: Yeah. And that's, that's where I would say, you know, that's the kind of stuff that I think we all need. I don't do that work. I wanna do the branding piece, right?

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Kelly Lynch: To be able to understand where, where we really shine, both as clinicians, as coaches, whatever it is that you wanna be in the world, this is all of the stuff that has to come together to create how we move out into the world and communicate, hey, I'm here, this is what I do. 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. So, as people are starting this work, they're listening to this and they're like, holy crap, I don't have a brand. You know, I, I'm just a therapist out here doing my best. So, like, what, what are the steps that you would recommend to begin that process of developing your brand? 

Kelly Lynch: So, very, the very first thing is do some identity work, right? Get really crystal clear on what are your roles, what are your labels, and what is your actual identity. Because your identity will inform the first two, but you are not actually your roles or your labels, right? Our roles are something that we do. Our labels are ways that the world describes us. Identity is everything else. So, get really crystal clear on your identity, and then focus in specifically on your core values and your core beliefs. Your core values and your core beliefs, when you take the time to really hone in on those and I, and get clear on them, that is the first step of beginning to build your brand. The next thing is then identifying your ideal client. Who the heck do you wanna work with? Why do they excite you? What is a normal day in their life look like? What are the things that they're really successful with? What are the things that they really struggle with? You know, really being able to look at, at who that person is and create what's called an avatar helps you be able to start to shape what voice you're gonna choose as you communicate to your ideal audience. Then the next step would be deciding on what type of service you actually wanna provide, right? Are you an EMDR clinician? Are you an IFS clinician? For me, I really like combining DBT and traditional CBT, right? So, what is the service that you're gonna pro- provide, and how, how does your ideal client inform what that ends up looking like? With it... Then you start really taking the time to understand what are, I'd say, one-to-three pain points that your ideal client is going to be struggling with or suffering under, and how does the service that you provide help them resolve those pain points? When you can answer those things, there's your homepage content for your website.

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Kelly Lynch: I don't ever recommend putting anything more than that on your homepage because you want to immediately establish a relationship with that client through those pain points to say, hey, I get you. Right? I understand what you're dealing with and why you feel the way that you do. Here's how I can help you fix it, right? 

Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. 

Kelly Lynch: That's the homepage. Uh, and then the next step after that would be writing out your purpose, vision, and mission statements, and then developing a positioning plan for that brand that you've now developed, uh, so that you can really start to, to curate the perception of the brand that you're desiring. Ideally, when a brand is done well, there should be no discrepancies between the identity of the brand and the way that the brand is perceived. 

Jennifer Agee: Okay. Those are very tangible steps. I love that. My brain loves that. My brain wants to put things in order. Um, that sounds wonderful. So, if people need help with that, because again, this is that stuff that nobody ever talks to you about.

Kelly Lynch: Sure. 

Jennifer Agee: Um, I know you do private coaching. Do you have a program as well where people can, um, go through things at their own pace? Or tell me what you offer. 

Kelly Lynch: Absolutely. So, I do one-to-one coaching. Um, I am also in the process of beginning to launch a mastermind, which will be capped at five people to really keep it nice and small and intimate where, you know, it's, it's a bit more cost effective if the, the cost of one-to-one coaching is not accessible right now. Um, that's a, a lower cost option. Um, and then my, my cheapest option is actually a DIY workbook that I just launched, um, that is all things branding for clinicians in private practice. Um, so, that is up and live on my website. Um, people are, are free to go find it. It's just a PDF download, um, with lots of very actionable exercises that walk you through the nuts and bolts from beginning to end of really building your brand and creating a good strategy around it. Um, so, if folks are interested in any of those things, they can go to my website at www.thegriitproject.com, and GRIIT is with two I's. Um, so you can make sure you get that second I in there. Um, and you can also find me on social media on Facebook and Instagram under the handle thegriitcoach. And that's where I live. 

Jennifer Agee: Awesome. Thank you. I love that you have actionable steps. And the other thing I really love is accessibility at different levels. Because the reality is when you're just starting off and you're paying for clinical supervision and you're doing all the things, it can feel like this is just stuff that people 10 years down the road can do. And so, I really appreciate it that you have kind of created three different levels based on where you're at in your career and what your budget is to make this accessible for people to do now. So, thank you for that. And thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I always love talking to you, and I always learn a lot when we talk. So, thank you very much. 

Kelly Lynch: Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. 

Jennifer Agee: Yeah. If you'd like to connect more with me, uh, counselingcommunity.com has links pretty much to everything that I do, including the retreats, coaching, podcast, all the things, all the social media things. I hope you have a great day and get out there and live your best dang life.