Kimberly Shultz, LPC-MHSP discusses the benefits and risks of self-disclosure. Knowing when to disclose, when not to and how much is an important line therapists need to navigate in a healthy way for their clients. Kim and Jennifer share their experiences with self-disclosure and the lessons they have learned along the way.
Kimberly has been working in the mental health field for about 15 years, specializing in trauma and grief. She is a private practice owner in Cool Springs, TN and the founder of Serenity Nature Retreats.
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Portugal Marketing Retreat October 2-7, 2023
Kimberly Shultz, LPC-MHSP discusses the benefits and risks of self-disclosure. Knowing when to disclose, when not to and how much is an important line therapists need to navigate in a healthy way for their clients. Kim and Jennifer share their experiences with self-disclosure and the lessons they have learned along the way.
Kimberly has been working in the mental health field for about 15 years, specializing in trauma and grief. She is a private practice owner in Cool Springs, TN and the founder of Serenity Nature Retreats.
OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:
Portugal Marketing Retreat October 2-7, 2023
Jennifer Agee: Hello. Hello. And welcome to Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School. I'm your host, Jennifer Agee, licensed clinical professional counselor. And with me today is Kimberly Schultz. Kimberly is a therapist based in Tennessee, and I have really gotten to know her over the last few years, and I think you're gonna take a lot from this conversation. Um, not only does she own a private practice but she also started Serenity Nature Retreats. And if you know much about me, you know that I love a good retreat. So welcome to the show.
Kimberly Shultz: Thank you so much.
Jennifer Agee: So, Kimberly and I are gonna be talking today about self-disclosure. It's one of those things that we get really mixed messages about in grad school. So, Kim and I as... see us as your seasoned veterans, right, going through this conversation. And we're gonna have really open and honest conversations with you about this. And, hopefully, at the end, you'll have a better understanding of what healthy self-disclosure can look like. So, Kim, what do you wish people understood about self-disclosure?
Kimberly Shultz: That it's, that it's okay when it's appropriate. That self-disclosure definite, definitely has a place in therapy. And that's not the message that I received. Um, either I made that up, or it was just never discussed in college. But I, I just always felt like it wasn't something that we were supposed to do, that it was frowned upon. So, I remember always feeling like, you know, I wasn't supposed to self-disclose anything. I was never supposed to bring anything up in session. That was just my thoughts and how I felt. So, when I started self-disclosing, I remember feeling, you know, guilty. And should I be doing this? And I'm doing this wrong. And a, a lot of stuff came up for me, but the feedback that I always got from my clients was, thank you so much for telling me that, you understand a little bit of what I'm going through. And it was always received well. And so, I'm like, okay, I'm doing this right.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah.
Kimberly Shultz: It is okay, when it's appropriate, to self-disclose ever so slightly at that moment.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. I think that goes back to, um, are we truly a blank slate? And the answer is obviously no.
Kimberly Shultz: Right.
Jennifer Agee: Um, therapists are not a blank slate. We come into the room with history and personality, and some of those experiences of life that can actually help our clients. And so, disclosure is and can be a very healthy and therapeutically beneficial thing for the client. And understanding when it is and isn't, I think, is really that, that line and boundary that I think we should spend a little time talking about today.
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, 'cause we don't always know if you're not, if you're not used to doing it and you're, you know, very closed off to your own stuff when it comes up, you know, like for me, I'm always checking in with myself. I'm always tracking the client. What is going on for them? What am I feeling from them, you know? And then, when I feel like, you know, they're at that place to where they're either fixing to tell me something big, or they're like, hey, you know, I've been seeing you for six months and there's something I've kept from you. You, you know that question you asked me in the very beginning, was I sexually abused? I was. And then they're kind of like... You know, 'cause they've just dropped a bomb on me, right? And I, they've never told anyone before, you know? And so, I always check in with myself, is it appropriate for me to share, and how much?
Jennifer Agee: Yeah.
Kimberly Shultz: And so, when it is appropriate, you know, I'm always like, I don't understand what you've been through, but I was also abused as a child, you know. And I don't go into the details or anything like that, but it's just letting them know that I'm, that I'm here for them, I'm here to hold space, I'm here to listen, that I'm not judging.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: You know, and that they are safe to tell me whatever they need to tell me. And if, and if they wanna wait, they can wait.
Jennifer Agee: So, in that case, you are disclosing, in part, to help give them the confidence to know that they can share this with you, and because you've experienced something in that same realm, you are open to hearing what they have to say. They don't have to filter themselves.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: This is a place of non-judgment.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes, correct. So, you know, I've seen people for a year before they, they've told me, you know, their hard, hard stuff. And it took a while for them to build up that trust and feel like they needed to tell me, you know, and have the courage to tell me. So, when, whenever it's appropriate and I think that they could benefit from knowing something, I will share something.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah.
Kimberly Shultz: You know, I don't just go and tell them my whole story, and I don't ever wanna make the session about me.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: But like if, if I'm sitting with someone, and they've been, you know, physically abused by a boyfriend or ex-husband, yeah, I've been through that, but I'm not like, hey, yeah, me too. Guess what my ex-husband did to me; blah, da, da, da, da. You know, it has to be done very tasteful. It has to be appropriate. And I wanna know where they're at before I say anything. So, it's, it's a lot of tracking, it's, it's reading their body language, and it's asking yourself, what's the purpose of me sharing this?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Right.
Kimberly Shultz: Because it's not about, it's not about me. And if, and if I'm getting triggered by some of my, my stuff—and that happens because we're human. There's gonna be something that pops up that we haven't dealt with with our own therapy. So, if that ever happens, you know, I would know, oh, I just got triggered. I need to go back to therapy. You know? Or I can share what is appropriate that's gonna help them to kind of see it from a different perspective and be like, oh, she got through it too.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah.
Kimberly Shultz: Because I've had a lot of clients, you know, when I have shared something, they've been like, oh, I just figured all you therapists had all your shit together, right?
Jennifer Agee: Right.
Kimberly Shultz: No, no. A lot of us are therapists because of our shit.
Jennifer Agee: Exactly.
Kimberly Shultz: You know, and we have spent decades in therapy working through it.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah, we're all works, works in progress and–
Kimberly Shultz: Exactly.
Jennifer Agee: And a part of what you are alluded to is making sure that, that when you're disclosing, it's not an act of countertransference, right?
Kimberly Shultz: Yes, yes.
Jennifer Agee: I'm not putting myself in that story and then painting a narrative for you that may or may not be yours. But there are these pieces and parts of my story that I think, if you understood that I had survived that too, been through that as well, that you can heal from this thing. It might be encouraging or helpful for you as my client.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes, yes. Like, the, the medication question that I get asked all the time, do you think I need to be on meds? What do you think about medication? You know, all the time. Well, yes, I, I took that in college, and I'm very familiar with all of the side effects and, and the pros and cons of medication. But I always put that back on them and, you know, it's like medication is a personal choice. I took medication back in the nineties when I was going through severe depression. I'm always very authentic, you know, about my own stuff. I'm not ever, ever gonna sit here and play like I haven't been on meds.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: And I haven't been in therapy, and I miss perfect. I don't ever wanna do that. So, I'm always like, medication worked for me for a time. If you feel like you need medication, you need to go talk to your doctor about that.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. A lot of times if they're asking the question, they already know, um, that they may actually benefit from it. You know, one of the areas, um, that comes up for me a lot, it's, there's two different kinds of self-disclosure, right? There's kind of that anecdotal self-disclosure of life lessons that you've learned, and then there's this self-disclosure that really comes from true pain points.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: So, for me, the times I find I have to check in my, with myself the most when I'm with a client is around the area of suicide.
Kimberly Shultz: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Agee: Because I have experienced that within my own family. My father completed suicide when I was very young. And although I'm open with that in people, with people in my personal life–
Kimberly Shultz: Right.
Jennifer Agee: It is not always appropriate to be sharing that with the client who's come in and their child or loved one has just completed suicide to, to share that. And so, what's happening with me in real-time in the chair is, I'm having this thought, I can connect with this because I've, my family's lived through this. Uh, we've experienced that, we've come out the other side, and then I have to be checking with myself is, A, is this the right time to disclose this information?
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: Is it healthy and helpful for this client, or am I just trying to connect with the client to let them know that I get it or some part of me wants to be heard? And it's really this internal dialogue that's happening while the client's talking that you're assessing all of these things like a Rolodex or a file in your head that's going [IMMITATES FLIPPING PAPER SOUND], kind of, thinking through all these different things before you decide to open your mouth.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes. Yes. That is so true. That is so true.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. But then, on the anecdotal side, I use my husband and my relationship with my kids as an example in session all the time.
Kimberly Shultz: I do too.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah, because for example, my husband and my daughter both have ADHD. I have learned a lot about ADHD as a result of them.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: I can relate to a lot of the stuff that they say. Like, I will often come downstairs and see cabinet doors open because he was obviously trying to do something in the morning, and, you know, the whole shutting of the door afterwards just completely escaped his mind. You know, so I might say, yeah, I get how that, that part's kind of irritating. Here's what we've done about it. And so that anecdotal piece of like, I get it, and here's a, a tool then that can maybe come from that. That's like a different level of self-disclosure, I think.
Kimberly Shultz: It is. It is. It is. It is a different level. And my clients find that extremely helpful when I'm able to do that and give them examples like that.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: Well, I think even in clinical supervision, one of the most helpful things that people continue to say is, I love it when you just speak to me like you would tell the client something, like how you would say it to a client, 'cause that thing gives me the internal language to know how to frame it, how to talk, talk to the client, because I've not necessarily done this before. And so, that role modeling, um, I think can be really powerful.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: But self-disclosure can also go horribly wrong.
Kimberly Shultz: Sure.
Jennifer Agee: So, let's, let's talk about some things to be aware of or pitfalls you might want to avoid.
Kimberly Shultz: Well, I've heard, um, clients tell me that they quit therapy because their experience with their therapist was they talked about themselves all the time.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: Or, I mean, another story, you know, somebody said they came in and they hadn't been to therapy in over 20 years because as soon as they sat down and started to cry, they said that their therapists looked at them and said, oh my, aren't we feeling sorry for ourselves?
Jennifer Agee: Are you kidding me?
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah. So, I've heard a lot of stories and, you know, I took all of those away because, you know, I don't ever wanna do anything that's gonna be damaging or harmful to my client. You know? And if I do share something and, you know, I'm trying to redirect it because there was a reason for me sharing something and I start to see that, they're like, oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And I'm like, no, no, I'm good. Let's, we're here to talk about you and to focus on you and trying to redirect it, you know? So, yeah, we do have to be careful, careful with who we're telling, too, because we know a lot of us have the clients who are, are, you know, caregivers and, you know, codependent, and they wanna make sure that we're okay. And it's like, you know, it's not about us. So, if I'm sitting with someone like that, I'm not gonna be sharing things that are going to cause them anxiety and upset them, and feel like, oh, I need to be taking care of Ms. Kim, and I need to be worrying about Ms. Kim. You know? No, this is about you. We're here to help you and work on your stuff.
Jennifer Agee: Absolutely.
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah. Let's find that.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Well, and I love that you gave the example, 'cause, actually, this is one I've heard a lot from clients too, is that they quit therapy because their therapist spent most of the time talking about themselves.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: And so, if you are listening to this and you realize you talk a lot in session, I want you to check in with yourself and see if you are getting burned out, because that is one of the number one signs of burnout for therapists is if you find yourself talking more in session.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: So, that, that's a cue that something's going on. It's not about the client. How would you feel if you paid 140 bucks to go sit with someone to listen to them talk and for you to say 10 words? You would not be very pleased with that transaction.
Kimberly Shultz: Oh, absolutely. I've had, I've had a few sessions that as soon as they sat down, you know, I just led with, you know, how are you doing today, you know, and they immediately were like, let's get to work.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: You know, and have told me I'm spending a lot of money for this; I want this to be a very productive session. And I highly respect that. So, with certain people, it may be a, hey, how are you? Let's get to work. You know, let's, let's work on this versus checking in with somebody else, you know, how was your week? How, how are you sleeping? Some things that I may need to know about that client. I may not always ask with certain clients.
Jennifer Agee: Right. Yeah. And I love it when clients are self-aware enough to be able to tell you what they need.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: Look, that doesn't happen all the time, but it is, it is nice when it does happen.
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah. You, and you have to know, like you said, when you're talking so much about yourself because hey, you need to get, get back in with your own therapist.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. And, and that's what I said, like for me, that's a sign of burnout. If, um, yeah, either I got triggered and I need to see my therapist again, or I, I'm experiencing burnout. And if I notice that I'm starting to want to talk, not even that I do it, but that I'm starting to want to talk more in the session, I have to do, have a little, like a little come to Jesus with myself. Like, what is going on in you, Jen? Because this is not how you do therapy.
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: And why is it that you're needing to jibber, jibber-jabber so much or wanting to, um, and really use that as a way to be reflective of what's going on and what do I maybe need to do so that I have the space to listen.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes, yes. We have to have that self-awareness, you know? And if you're, if you're noticing that your clients are dropping off, for example, or if you notice that they're not rescheduling or something's going on, you know, maybe reach out to 'em and see if they would be open and honest enough to give you some feedback. Because I can think back through the years, um, I haven't lost many people, but I, I've had a couple of people that I noticed they didn't reschedule and I had been seeing them for a long period of time, and I'm like, hey, I just noticed we didn't reschedule. And they're like, yeah, I'm, I'm, you know, I didn't wanna tell you, but I'm kind of feeling stuck in session. I feel like we've gone as far as we need to go. Oh, okay. Absolutely. No problem. I totally get it. When you've been working with someone for over a year, a year and a half on various things, and then they're not coming in with anything new, it may start to just be very, you know, relational to where you're just, hey, what's up? I don't know. What's up with you? You know?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: You know, you don't ever wanna do that. And so, it's important for us to recognize when that's happening and there's more small talk, you know, versus deep healing work, which is what they're paying for.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. And I think that that kind of leads into, um, a therapeutic relationship is not a friendship.
Kimberly Shultz: Right.
Jennifer Agee: Although there are aspects of friendship within the therapeutic relationship, this person is not your friend and never truly can be because you are not as vulnerable and open about your personal life as they are about theirs because the time is about them. This is set aside dedicated time to be about them. And so, if you are feeling like a relationship is slipping more into stuff that you would talk to your friends about, that's another area where you need to pause and get reflective and find out what is going on.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes. Yes. 'Cause we have to know when to refer out. So, if, if someone is, is triggering your, your wounds triggering you, or you notice that you're, you're getting super excited about them coming in to share your own stuff or just to have a conversation with them, that's another sign you need to refer out. It's not that we don't love our clients because I absolutely love my clients. But I have to know when it's starting to shift and take a turn towards something else besides therapeutic work.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Well, it, it can mess up the dynamic of the work that needs to be done. And I think about, uh, you know, in the most unhealthy version of this, right, self-disclosure or information that's shared of a sexual nature, maybe between the therapist and the client, then that opens that doorway up of conversation between the two when the client did not invite that into the room or bring that into the room. This is something that the therapist is bringing into the room and then introducing into that relationship, and that can be incredibly dangerous.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: Um, so self-disclosure and sharing information can be incredibly helpful, but really do that internal conversation with yourself about what is the goal of sharing this information? In what way is this gonna benefit the client? And if it's just being compelled to share, then that's probably about you. That's probably not about the client.
Kimberly Shultz: Right, right. Yeah, it is. It's, it's constantly– I mean, I think that's one of the reasons that a lot of us are so exhausted is because, um, I've constantly got that dialogue, like you said, in the back of my mind running as I'm tracking them, as I'm, you know, reading their body language, as I'm listening to what they're saying, what they're not saying, you know, that kind of thing, and, and trying to figure out where to go next. It, it can get exhausting.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. And if you, if you do a level of self-disclosure and you're not sure how it landed on the client, right, maybe you made a calculated choice to share and it turns out maybe it wasn't the best thing, um, and you can kind of feel a shift, an energy shift between you and the client, check in. What was it like for you to hear that I had been in an abusive relationship, for example?
Kimberly Shultz: Right.
Jennifer Agee: Invite that into the room and then turn that back into a therapeutic opportunity.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: How does that then when you think about that for me, and I know that you, you care about me as your therapist, if we reflect that back to you, what are you telling yourself that means about you or what your value and what– Can we, can we then salvage it and turn it back around and make sure that the focus is going in the right direction here?
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah, exactly. I mean, and, and scare, uh, therapy is scary, especially for all of the people going for the very first time that have severe trauma. I, I mean, I remember when I was 28 and I was doing what they're doing to where you go into therapy and you're not sure about it, and you're trying to read the therapist, and, you know, I went for severe trauma, and I remember just waiting and waiting and how do I say this to this person? And are they gonna be judging me? And what's it gonna be like for them to hear this? And, you know, and then finally saying it and then, you know, watching them wipe away a tear but just still stay in, you know, with me.
Jennifer Agee: I think it's important that if you're sharing something, it's not something that you're currently going through but something, an area that you have actually had healing in.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: Because if you're currently going through it, you probably don't have the emotional bandwidth to hold both what's coming up for you as you're letting that out and the client's focus at the same time. I can think about a specific example. Um, actually I just had this conversation, um, the other day. I was meeting with, um, a young mom and dad as a couple and talking to them, and they were struggling in their marriage. Things were, you know, things are tough, whatever. And their story reminded me so much of my husband and I when we had little kids. And now we, our kids are grown; I'm a grandma now. So, like, you know, I, I've been through it.
Kimberly Shultz: Right.
Jennifer Agee: And I said, I shared with them a conversation that I had with my husband. I said, you know, my husband and I actually talked about this the other day. And now we're, we're decades past it, right?
Kimberly Shultz: Right, right.
Jennifer Agee: But there was a point that we even contemplated divorce when our kids were in preschool. And what we came to realize in having the conversation was that both of our, our systems were just fried. It was every man for themselves. The kids were needing you 24-7. I was still in graduate school. He was working days. I was working nights after I went to grad school. Like, it was all hands on deck, and nobody was having their needs met. Nobody was having a good time in that season.
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: And when you're telling me your story, it really makes me reflect on that feeling, like, where's there space for me, and I'm wondering if that's how you're feeling. And they both were like, yeah. And so, you know, they were able to ask, you know, what'd you guys do to fix it? And–
Kimberly Shultz: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Agee: So, we had that conversation. And was that self-disclosure? 110% it was. But that is not a wound that I'm currently carrying.
Kimberly Shultz: Right.
Jennifer Agee: That is a lesson that I learned in life because of healing and of time and of reflection.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: Um, so, I think being really careful that if you're feeling compelled to, to disclose, if it's something that you haven't healed the wound on yourself, you probably ought not do it.
Kimberly Shultz: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, that's, that's a really good point because there is gonna come a, a time that somebody's gonna be sitting in front of you and you're gonna be having your own stuff happening at home in your own life, and it's gonna come in, and it's gonna hit hard. And you're not gonna be able to sit with that client and be productive. You have to be able to refer out and give that to them, you know?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kimberly Shultz: It also makes me think about, um, seeing, seeing clients that we're not qualified to see.
Jennifer Agee: Ah, say more.
Kimberly Shultz: It, it reminds me, I went to, uh, David Kessler, the grief expert.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: I love, love, love him. I went to one of his, um, training ceremonies, uh, training sessions in Nashville, and he was telling us a story about a friend of his that, um, or somebody he knew, that said, hey, you know, I've got this new client. They're coming to me for grief, da da da. And he's like, have, have you ever been to any of my grief workshops or done any training or any work on grief? He said, no, I'm just gonna wing it. I, I'll be fine. I'll just, I'm just gonna do it. And he was just flabbergasted, you know, because, um, it was a really, really severe case, and they really needed an expert and somebody who at least knew how to handle that situation. And he had zero training and was just gonna take 'em anyway and did. Uh, and um, that's all he told us. But I mean, he just talked about how important it is that when we're working with grief or trauma or anything, we need to be trained in it. We don't just need to, oh, well I need the money, and I need the session, and they called, so I'm gonna see 'em.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: Oh no, that's not, that's not how it works. I mean, how would you feel if you went to a, a therapist for something specific they had no idea about and were like, yeah, I'll see you?
Jennifer Agee: Yeah, no, I wouldn't be very pleased at all. And when, as soon as you said that I thought this therapist is working from scarcity mindset. This therapist is working from a place where, I have to take any client that I can because I need to get my hours, I need to–
Kimberly Shultz: Right.
Jennifer Agee: Income, you know, that kind of a thing. Because if you really look at it as, what would I want for myself?
Kimberly Shultz: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Agee: That is not, if they were hurting and grieving–
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: They would rather have a therapist be honest and say, this is not my area of specialty. I'm so glad you reached out. I do know someone who's really great at this. Can I connect you two?
Kimberly Shultz: Yes, yes. Yeah. And, and, you know, he said that he thought that after having the conversation with him that he would at least sign up and do some of the workshops and, and read his books and do the work. Nope.
Jennifer Agee: What?
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah. No, I'm good.
Jennifer Agee: Oh, geez.
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. You know, there's no space for pride in the therapy room.
Kimberly Shultz: No, there's not. There's not. I mean, we're, we're here to give people hope, to help them, you know, and, and not keep them in therapy for years, and to do the work, and, and to be there, and hold space for them.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: You know? Um, and, you know, we're talking about self-disclosure, so if somebody comes in and they're like, you know, hey, I need EMDR and they're feeling very hopeless a, about therapy, about the process, you know, it's my job to give them hope. And, and it's also my place to say, I've been there, and I've done that work.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: And EMDR helped me tremendously, you know? And just to give them that hope that they need, oh, okay, if it worked for you and you did it, you know, maybe I'll have a good experience too.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Speaking of techniques, I always, I almost, well, I think I always do, do some level of self-disclosure around a new technique that I'm doing with the client. If it's new to the client, not new to me. Uh, for example, if I'm doing EMDR, hypnotherapy, I might say, what I learned from doing my own EMDR work and in my training was, you're gonna be wiped out tonight. You're gonna sleep like a baby. And all sorts of random things are gonna popcorn up in your thoughts this week, and it's not gonna bother you. You're just gonna be aware of it. So, having that experience to be able to tell people what you're about to experience is normal; don't panic. Or with hypnotherapy, like, you're gonna start thinking of things you didn't think of before.
Kimberly Shultz: Right, right.
Jennifer Agee: And um, some of this stuff probably isn't gonna, you're not gonna love it, but I'm not gonna leave you stuck here. And kind, kind of walking them through a little bit of what that experience is like.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: And I always tell people things like, um, when your eyes are closed, I'm not scanning you, I’m tuning into you. So, like, the reason I invite you to close your eyes is so you're not scanning my face looking for my judgment or whatever. So, giving that kind of experiential feedback from when we did it because, uh, you know, if you know anything about therapy, whatever we do to you, we have done to ourselves, right–
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: In our trainings. We've had to do it ourselves.
Kimberly Shultz: Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: We do have an-, some anecdotal things that we think might be able to help you on the way if you understand the process better. And we only understand it 'cause we've done it.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes, yes. Yeah. And I always do that, too, to let them know that, you know, my therapist did EMDR on me when I was in college, and these were the results. And, you know, this is what I'm hoping for you. And then, well, how many sessions? How many sessions? And I'm always like, you know, it depends. It depends on so much. It depends on how fast you process. You know, how many traumas we're working on? Are we working on years and years of trauma? Is it, is it one big trauma? Is it a big T?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Kimberly Shultz: You know, whatever it is. I can give you some ideas, but that doesn't mean your experience is gonna be the same as anyone else's because we're all so different and unique.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. I think if I could, if I could boil down a part of our conversation today with self-disclosure, I think it really goes back to you are a human being in the room with another human being.
Kimberly Shultz: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Agee: And also, we have to temper our life experiences through the filter of whether or not it is good, healthy, and wise to share that with the client for the client's benefit.
Kimberly Shultz: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: And if you can do both of those things, be genuine and authentic, and allow space for healthy self-disclosure, and also balance it with knowing and understanding when it's about you and not the client's benefit, self-disclosure could be a beautiful, healthy, and wonderful thing in the therapy room.
Kimberly Shultz: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jennifer Agee: Well, Kim, thank you so much for being on today. Tell us what you've got coming up and how people can connect with you.
Kimberly Shultz: Okay, awesome. I have my very first retreat coming up in April. It is April the 27th through April the 30th. It's three nights. It's here in beautiful Tennessee. And we are ha-, let's see, we have seven spots left. I'm only gonna take 12 people. Um, 7, 8, 9. Yep, that's right. Seven spots left. And my website is www.serenitynatureretreats.com and my website is couragetoheal624.com. And that's how you can reach me.
Jennifer Agee: Oh, wonderful. Well, thank you so much. And if anyone listening wants to connect more with me or the podcast, I do have a couple trainings coming up with space. I have an Alaskan cruise, which is experiential techniques therapists need to know. I have a training in August in Asheville, North Carolina, for our therapists who wanna learn how to do retreats and run retreats of their own. And then in October, we are going to Portugal and focus on business growth and marketing. So, if you wanna get connected to any of those things, counselingcommunity.com. We are here to help you and to serve our community well. Get out there everyone and live your best dang life.
Kimberly Shultz: Thank you so much.
Jennifer Agee: Thank you.