Danica Wolf, MSW (she/her) discussed the importance of resilience and practical, simple steps to begin to strengthen resilience for yourself and your clients.
Danica is the Chief Operating Officer at Simplified SEO Consulting, where she is responsible for overseeing the SEO Specialist Team and providing support to clients. She is also the primary instructor for the company's 12-Week Done-With-You SEO Intensive Training and the quarterly SEO Mastermind cohort. Danica has a passion for business strategy and writing, and has over a decade of experience in academia, having served as an Adjunct Faculty Member at the MU School of Social Work and the Lincoln University Department of Social Work. In addition to her work at Simplified SEO Consulting, Danica also owns and operates Harmony Birth Services, a full-spectrum doula agency. In her free time, Danica enjoys music, exploring local parks and trails, and crafting. She is a lifelong learner, self-described business strategy nerd, and a talented writer and content strategist with a passion for helping others achieve great results through SEO.
OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:
Portugal Marketing Retreat October 2-7, 2023
Danica Wolf, MSW (she/her) discussed the importance of resilience and practical, simple steps to begin to strengthen resilience for yourself and your clients.
Danica is the Chief Operating Officer at Simplified SEO Consulting, where she is responsible for overseeing the SEO Specialist Team and providing support to clients. She is also the primary instructor for the company's 12-Week Done-With-You SEO Intensive Training and the quarterly SEO Mastermind cohort. Danica has a passion for business strategy and writing, and has over a decade of experience in academia, having served as an Adjunct Faculty Member at the MU School of Social Work and the Lincoln University Department of Social Work. In addition to her work at Simplified SEO Consulting, Danica also owns and operates Harmony Birth Services, a full-spectrum doula agency. In her free time, Danica enjoys music, exploring local parks and trails, and crafting. She is a lifelong learner, self-described business strategy nerd, and a talented writer and content strategist with a passion for helping others achieve great results through SEO.
OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:
Portugal Marketing Retreat October 2-7, 2023
Jennifer Agee: Hello. Hello, and welcome to Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School. I am your host, Jennifer Agee, licensed clinical professional counselor. And with me today is Danica Wolf. Danica is an MSW and also the Chief Operating Officer of Simplified SEO Consulting. So, welcome to the show, Danica.
Danica Wolf: Hey, Jennifer, I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you so much.
Jennifer Agee: Danica and I are going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects, which is resiliency. So, why don't you get us started. Tell, tell us what you wish people learn, knew, or understood about resiliency.
Danica Wolf: Yeah. So, I, I love talking about resiliency as well. Um, my previous role, and I'd say previous career, is all in trauma. Um, you know, sexual violence, relationship violence, that sort of thing. And so, it's definitely something I've, I love getting to talk about, but I really wish that we were taught about resiliency and then given tools, um, to cope, actionable tools, realistic tools, um, to access way earlier. So, um, you know, I wish that folks wouldn't get to a point in their lives where something happens, something that they, you know, of course, couldn't imagine, um, couldn't predict, but, you know, something to knock them off course in whatever way, and, you know, have that be earth-shattering for them, you know?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: That's, that's what I've, I've seen. I've personally experienced. And, um, I think that, you know, if we had better language, better models, um, a better system for teaching these tools early on and just having it be like, okay, having it be okay for things to not go as planned. Um–
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. Let it be part of the human experience. And I think part of what I wanna make sure people understand about resiliency is resiliency is born from adversity. It is born out of difficult situations. If everything is easy, we have no reason to build that muscle of being resilient. And so, a lot of the most resilient people you'll ever meet in your life have faced some really difficult things. Because what's happened is, they faced those difficult things and realized that it does not have to take them under, that they can rise above it, that they can learn from it, they can heal from it, they can grow from it. And that starts to create this really beautiful, strong, um, inner knowing of, no matter what comes my way, I may not like it, but I can handle it.
Danica Wolf: Oh, yes. I love that. The, the piece of, I may not like it, but I can handle it, you know?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: Um, and, and I do think, you know, I'm, I'm saying, oh, I wish we could talk about it differently. I guess I wish that, you know, our, our generation or, you know, this, those of us who are adults now, could have been given that gift. Um, unfortunately, I do think the pandemic probably gave, you know, some of our, our littles that gift, um, early on. You know, having to adjust and accommodate and now cope with all of that. But, you know, I, I think that's gonna have its own set of, um, lessons, if you will.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. Yeah. And I think even professionally, you know, I'm a clinical supervisor as well, and often I'll have supervisee say, I messed that up, didn't I? Or I really probably shouldn't have done that. And, you know, it, we have the conversation. Was that maybe the, the wisest choice in your tool belt to choose? I don't know. Maybe not. We could talk about that. But the, the fact is, life is a learning experience and being really careful not to go into shame or spiral when those times happen where maybe you don't get it completely right and give yourself grace, realizing you're a human being living the human experience, and that is coined to come with bumps along the road. And that that is normal, so, so normal.
Danica Wolf: Yes, it's all part of it. And, and you know, as much as we can, might be kicking and screaming, but as much as we can embrace it, you know, as soon after it happens as possible—let's not be [INCOMPREHENSIBLE] about it and think it's gonna happen right away—but, um, you know, it's, it's similar to, you know, I'm in a supervisory role, and, um, in, in a service-based business, um, you know, we're frequently met with feedback, right?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: So, being able to genuinely mean feedback is a gift. Feedback is a gift. I tell my team that all the time. Feedback is a gift, but, you know, getting myself to believe that was its own journey. Um, I can recall multiple times with client websites that I thought, oh no, I can't believe, you know, that that happened. Or even with our own website, um, you know, I can't believe that was on there, what a mistake, what are people gonna think? And you know, going into that shame spiral that you mentioned, um, getting to a point where, you know, you can say, done is good. I did my best at the time. Changes might be made, changes will be made, and that's okay. Um, and then, you know, with others, feedback is a gift. I say that all the time.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. And, and realizing there's very, there are very few things that happen in life that you cannot bounce back from. I mean, even just look at, look at some of the worst public faux pas that happened with celebrities even, right? They're on a national or international stage, and some of them have done some of the dumbest shit imaginable.
Danica Wolf: Right.
Jennifer Agee: And yet, you know, there's a comeback, like, so it, it's gonna, it's gonna be okay.
Danica Wolf: Exactly. Yeah. And I think, you know, as a, a recovering perfectionist, um, there are, you know, well, we're, we're told like, you know, I was, I was a high-achieving kid and teenager and, you know, um, did a lot of performing and, you know, all of these different things, was accelerated education, all of that. And thought that I had to, well, A, thought that achievement meant, you know, my own worth, right, my own self-worth and had to prove myself, right? But then, that I had any control over it, right, the reality of, you know, you, you think, growing up, oh, well, if I just do X, Y, Z, if I, you know, maintain this, achieve this, prove this, then everything's gonna work out for me, right? And, and we're reinforced because for a long time it does–
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: Until it doesn't, right? And so, you know, thinking about the, the shit I would've, I wish I would've learned in grad school, um, it, it life doesn't work that way. News flash, life doesn't work that way, even if it has up until that point. Um, and you know, you can, quote, "do everything right" and still have it not work out, you know, because we're, we're humans working with other humans, and human beings are perfectly imperfect and beautifully flawed, and some of them are just mean and bad.
Jennifer Agee: Right, right, right.
Danica Wolf: You know?
Jennifer Agee: You know, a part of this conversation really has me thinking, um, generationally, right? Generational, generational resilience. I'm Gen X, so, um, I actually think my generation is pretty freaking resilient. And a lot of that is because we were left on our own a lot, if I'm being honest. You know you're kicked out of the house when the sun comes up and you've had a bowl of cereal. We drank from the hose during the day 'causes god forbid you go inside 'cause mom was gonna give you a chore, or you were gonna get in trouble 'cause of the, the door hit too hard or whatever. But you did not go inside unless you had to, right? And so, we had, we had a thousand experiences where we had to figure it out on our own, where we were put in a little bit over our head and had to figure it out. And I'm kind of wondering just what then our overcorrection did for our children, right?
Danica Wolf: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: Uh, raising the millennials and stuff–
Danica Wolf: Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Agee: And our protection of them to give them what we didn't have, how that affected their resiliency, because some of them had a lot less access to experiences that built that early in life, at least from my perspective. In their younger life, did they not have as, as much access to those experiences that build resiliency really early on? Because in an effort to Correct, but we as Gen X maybe did not have, we might have over-sheltered.
Danica Wolf: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that, that we've seen that. Um, my previous career was on a college campus, um, and up until last year I was still teaching as well, um, at a local university, um, pretty large university. And holy moly, um, you know, I think that maybe right after me-ish, that's when they were talking about like helicopter parents, right?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: Um, and you know, I do wanna be super clear here. I don't blame parents for everything because we're all just out here doing our best, you know?
Jennifer Agee: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
Danica Wolf: There is no manual. I'm also a doula, so again, in the world of, I've done all sorts of random things. Um, I definitely don't blame parents. No manual. And you're just trying to keep people alive. But we had what we called helicopter parents for a while, and then it very quickly shifted to snowplow parents.
Jennifer Agee: What is that? I, I don't know that term.
Danica Wolf: Right? So, the idea of a helicopter parent is, you know, they're always hovering and quick to swoop in, send the rope down, all of that, right? But it's, it's less, it's more like they're just always there over their children. And so, that's kind of what you're talking about with that, um, you know, kind of being sheltered, super protected, and again, for very good reason, and all the things, all the, all the fine print there. Snowplow parents, they come in and they paved the way. They smooth the way, so they're getting more directly involved. So, those of us who were in like student services, or, um, I worked in residential life in undergrad. And, um, ooh. We had the parents who would get quite directly involved, so we wouldn't hear from the student. We would hear from their parent, and then as an instructor, we'd hear from their parent. And this kind of got progressively worse and worse. And so, I love teaching adults. That's what I get to do in my work now. I get to teach and train adults who want to be there. Um, but it was increasingly difficult to, um, navigate and try to both teach students the concepts, 'cause of course I was, you know, teaching about domestic violence, and social work skills, and, you know, different, different pieces that they needed to know, while also teaching them the life skill of advocating for yourself, taking personal responsibility, things that, you know, my, my fourth grader now is being taught by his teacher, you know? And, of course, it's not his first exposure to it because, um, I've seen the other side of that, those, that coin. But, um, you know, I know that that's already being taught to him because his teacher values it. And so, um, anyway, I, I digress there. But yes, snowplow parents that... I think that that's an extreme version of that overcorrection where they've kind of taken it on themselves to say, oh, well my, my child, even though they're 18, 21, even 26 sometimes, um, can't handle it or can't speak for themselves. And we know that that's just fundamentally untrue.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. Uh, it's building. I think that building that resiliency is such an important part of the human growth experience, and it's a part of, of, I think, what makes life enjoyable. Because even when you hit those bumps in the road, you learn to trust yourself, and you learn to trust the universe or whatever you wanna call it, right? That I'm going to be O–, I will come through this. This may suck eggs, but I'm gonna come through this. That saying like, um, it's gonna pass. It might pass like a kidney stone, but it's gonna pass, you know? Like, you, you learn to have enough of those experiences that your system learns to believe that that's true and know that that's true. And when you don't have those experiences or that grace for yourself, 'cause you go into a shame spiral instead, you're preventing your brain and your body from learning a really valuable lesson. You're short-changing the, the value that can come from that difficult experience.
Danica Wolf: Absolutely. Um, one of the things that, um, Jessica, the, the owner of our company and I, um, you know, have to remind each other frequently is, you know, we have a hundred percent track record of figuring it out. You know, we, when something happens, when, um, you know, well, again, global pandemic happens, for example, or, um, a recession, or whatever it is, someone quits or anything, um, we have a hundred percent track record figuring it out. We've always figured it out. It's never not worked. You know, is it tough? Do we have to have sprint times? You know, is it, does it set us back from where we imagined? Sure. But it usually ends up being greater and more beautiful than we could have imagined because we had to work it out. We had to make it work. We had to figure it out and get more creative. Um, and it, it gave us that, you know, opportunity, that gift to show up for ourselves in a way that we know is possible, but we'd rather not have to access, quite frankly.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, I wish growth came during super, super healthy cycles, but the majority of our greatest growth comes from difficulty and comes from pain. I hate if, if I'm the first one to tell you that folks, I'm real sorry. But, uh, it's just the truth, you know? That is where most of our largest growth happens. And the other thing that happens is, in those difficult places, you stop, and you pause, and you look around, and you prioritize what is important. And a lot of times, what I found is in those more painful moments of things not working out the way I, I wish they would, it's caused me to pivot and get really probably on the track I was supposed to be on in the first place. And I can give an example of this in business. So, my company, counselingcommunity.com and counselingcommunitykc.com, uh, the first time I set that out, I had a vision—I believe that I was given a vision of what it was supposed to be—and I really wanted it to be like online and, um, destination continuing education stuff. I wanted a one-stop place where people could go and see what all continuing education was out there that was tr-, you know, had travel involved in it. Because I was always searching for it. I can never freaking find it. But what happened was I chased the dollar for a hot minute instead. And I decided I was going to pivot from that original vision and dream, and I was going to create an online Psychology Today type of thing, right?
Danica Wolf: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Jennifer Agee: A TherapyDen type of thing. I threw money at it, I built the infrastructure, I did all the backend-y stuff, and it bombed. It did not work out at freaking all. And I felt like absolute dog shit about it. And then I stopped one day and I said, okay, what are you gonna do about this, Jen? Like, you gotta come up with a plan because this did not work out. And no, that does not feel lovely. But what is it that we're gonna, how are we gonna make lemonade out of this lemon? And I just sat, I just sat there, and I was really still with myself, and I thought, all right there, Jennifer Marie, you know exactly what to freaking do. You are supposed to do what you were supposed to do in the first place, and stop chasing the damn dollar, and get back to what it is you know that you were here to create. And you know what? I did that. And you know what? I made infinitely more money than I ever dreamed doing what it was with the thing that I did, I never even set out to make money doing what I'm doing now. But it has flowed. It's brought the richest, most beautiful relationships with people I would've never met before. But I whiffed. I swung. I whiffed. I ate dirt. And it really freaking sucked. But out of that, I had to shake myself off, and realign with my values, and get back to what it was I knew I should have been doing in the first place.
Danica Wolf: Absolutely.
Jennifer Agee: That's, that's resiliency in an action. You might eat dirt, and it might not feel good, but can you stand back up, dust off, shake off and go, all right, what are we gonna do about it now?
Danica Wolf: Yes. Exactly. And how quickly you're able to pivot, how quickly you're able to bounce back, that, you know, to me—and maybe it's an unpopular opinion—but that makes all the difference, you know?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: Have to sit in, in the shit and, you know, feel sorry for yourself, feel bad, deal with, you know, cope with whatever the reality of it is that happened. Because it's real, you know?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: Yes. Even if it's not earth-shattering, it's still real. Fine. But it's gonna set you back that much further. And I hate to say, you know, again, if people are hearing that for the first time, I'm so sorry, but, you know, the quicker you can rebound, the quicker you can say, okay, thank you, next, you know, figuring this out, okay, got it, heard and understood, I'm moving on, the better. And some of, you know, I'm so grateful for some of my biggest, again, I won't even call them failures, um, but my biggest disappointments, biggest setbacks, because they gave me that inner knowing, that, you know, self, it's not even confidence. It is, uh, just a solid foundation that I know I could deal with something absolutely freaking terrible, and if it doesn't—it's gonna sound so trite—but truly, if it does not kill me, I will, I will get through it.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. And I, I think some of the things that were really helpful for me in not just this kind of swinging with, but, you know, others, 'cause life is filled with them, um, was I have a supportive tribe around me. And like, when I would go to my husband and say, I feel like a total slacker loser. I cannot believe that I put money into this, and it didn't work out. And he's like, Jen, do you know how many people would have this dream and never even go for it? Come on now. You're fine. We can take the hit financially 'cause it, you know, it was, it was, you know, we did lose some money there. But he's like, all right, we could take the hit. But the thing is, would you have regretted not trying? I'm like, yeah, probably. He's like, yeah, so you know, it's fine. And I've got good friends who are like, yeah, I eat dirt all the time. Because if you're an entrepreneur, you are bubbling with ideas, and not all of them are gonna be a home run.
Danica Wolf: Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Oh gosh. So many, so many ways to take that. But yes, there are, um, the, your people, your people make all the difference. Having the community around you who not just loves and supports you but is willing to also call you on your stuff, you know? Like, and say, huh, okay, I see what you're doing there. I'm not sure, but I'm here for you. Um, that's huge too.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah.
Danica Wolf: You know?
Jennifer Agee: Yeah.
Danica Wolf: And when people are silent and then down the road, something doesn't work out, don't, don't, don't come at me with Oh, yeah. I always thought something about that. You know, I, that's the worst, you know? Um, and so, you know, I'd rather have the folks who are more direct, preferably loving, but more direct and able to say, I'm not so sure about this. Have you thought this part through? Or what if this happens? Um, and even if you move forward, I'm here for you.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Danica Wolf: Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: And it's, um, in the therapy room, like if you're a new clinician that's listening to this, you are gonna doubt yourself a thousand, like your imposter syndrome is on steroids in the beginning of your career, you know? Uh, and, and although it, it lessens over time. I mean, it comes out in different ways as you get old, you know, have more experience. But, um, it's on fire when you first start. And being really gracious with yourself and just seeing all of this is a part of the human journey, very few things could you do that you could not come back from. And even if you make a relational misstep with a client in terms of you maybe overshared or you offered advice instead of just listening, we can correct that because that's role modeling for our clients what it looks like to, um, acknowledge that we didn't get something right and to credit. What a great way to show your client that they can do that too.
Danica Wolf: Exactly. That's a, and that's a gift to them, you know?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: Being able to say, gosh, I am, I, I was thinking about our conversation, and I realized maybe shouldn't have done it like this. Um, let's talk. Let's talk about the effect that had on you. Let's talk about what I could have done differently, and, you know, move forward. Again, not to make it about you, but also to, to share that, to model that. Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. If you're feeling that that was, that something was brought into the room that maybe, you know, uh, needs to be corrected, I think it's good to address it. But I'll tell you the truth. What I found is 99% of the time when I bring it up, the client doesn't even remember it. And I have been racking myself for a week about it, you know? So,
Danica Wolf: Oh, it's just like those odd interactions that you have with friends, or less with your friends, it's usually with like a, you know, another parent or whatever, somebody, you, you just know enough to be dangerous, right?
Jennifer Agee: Right.
Danica Wolf: And then you're like, goodness, they're gonna think X, Y, Z. No. Everybody else is just thinking about what you're thinking about them. That's it. You know?
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. That whole idea that most people really aren't thinking about you at all.
Danica Wolf: Our silly little brains, you know?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: So, yeah.
Jennifer Agee: All right, Danica and my big takeaways, what do we want people to know about resiliency? I'll say a couple. You say a couple. Let's just fire 'em off here.
Danica Wolf: Beautiful.
Jennifer Agee: Um, one, not getting things right is a part of the human journey, and it's a part of the human experience. As long as you can stand back up, dust yourself off, and figure out what moving forward looks like for you, you're gonna be just fine.
Danica Wolf: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: How about– Mm-hmm.
Danica Wolf: Um, I think anchoring back to that, you know, the idea that you've, you've figured it out up to this point. You, you know, you've got a hundred percent track record of figuring it out. You have that in you, and just really build that inner knowing. Ground yourself in the, ground yourself in all the positives. And if you need to sit down and make a list of all of the times you can think of that you have figured it out, that you have succeeded, let yourself do that. You know, let yourself create. You know, use whatever tools you need to to anchor yourself to that knowing until you truly believe it. That's so, even if you've never had to fall on your face, you know, our, our brains are so, we're so quick to go to the negative. We're so quick to remember, you know, that one weird interaction or that one time that things didn't go exactly right or whatever it is. But if we really get honest and clear about it, you've got a hundred amazing things that have happened, amazing things that have worked out for every one of those negatives. So write 'em down, anchor yourself to them, and just keep repeating it until you believe it.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. The next thing I would say is find a tribe. Like, find people that surround you that really will be there for you and support you. They'll be a champion in your corner. They'll, um, support you when some, when things go right and when things don't go the way you wish that they would go. Really find those people who are for you—not jealous of you, not competitive with you—genuinely for you. And when you have those, those relationships, your resiliency, and your bounce back is so much quicker because your friends don't let you sit in the dirt too long. They're like, all right there. I get this, this didn't work out, but you're not gonna sit in here too long because I can think of 10 examples of when you did things great, you know? They're just not gonna let you sit there too long. So, find your tribe, I think would be, um, my next piece of advice.
Danica Wolf: Absolutely. And then when you've got that tribe, when you've got that, you know, that anchoring, you know, you've got these tools, you're ready to go, go do the damn thing. Just go do it. Try it and know that, you know, yes, it'll probably work out. I want you to have that hope. Um, I want you to, you know, believe that it will. But if it doesn't, you're gonna be okay. And so, you know, being able to, to test and change, to pivot, but move forward even if you don't feel like you're ready, or you, you're scared, or you've got all these fears, do it anyway. Just try. Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. I would also say if you have a strong inner critic, get your therapist to do the work with you to figure out whose voice did you internalize. We need to heal those wounds wherever they came from because that strong inner critic is going to hold you back from the life that you could lead, the dreams that you have for yourself if you're stuck in fear and the what ifs. So, so, do your own work around this area. If you find that you go to that place of, um, shame, doubt, uh, spiral too often, do the work.
Danica Wolf: Yes. Absolutely. We're, we're never done. If you think that you are done working on yourself, you're doing yourself a disservice, you know? I, I love lifelong learning. That's lifelong learning, growth, having that growth mindset. You know, that, that's, gosh, teaching growth mindset would be incredible, you know, from an early age. There are some really great curriculums around it. Um, but I digress. Anyway, um, there's some really great opportunities for teaching and learning growth mindset, even from a young age. But if that's not something that you're actively seeking now, building those skills, engaging in some of that, that learning and development, you know, I, I just think it's a gift that can take you so far.
Jennifer Agee: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Danica. Let people know how they can connect with you.
Danica Wolf: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. This is, I love this discussion. Um, folks can absolutely engage with Simplified SEO Consulting, so it's simplifiedseoconsulting.com. Um, we're on Instagram, Facebook, Simplified SEO, and you'll see all kinds of, you know, fun, funny, uplifting things there, SEO tips. Um, we primarily work with therapists, coaches, consultants, helping professionals, that sort of thing, and at all different stages, um, and scopes of that journey. So, I get the opportunity to actually train folks, um, both virtually and in person, speaking of destination trainings. Uh, we've got, you know, some exciting things happening and, um, you know, again, always, always learning and growing and, you know, trying to meet people with, you know, what they're looking for, and, and help y'all find your ideal clients as well.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. Well, thank you so much again. And if you'd like to connect more with me, counselingcommunity.com, and I'm on all the socials. So, if you need coaching, you wanna come to Alaska, you wanna come to Portugal, you just let me know. I'm here. I'm here. All right, everyone, I hope you get out there and live your best dang life.