Jennifer Agee: Hello. Hello and welcome to Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School. I'm your host, Jennifer Agee, and with me today is Erin Coram. She is a group practice owner, entrepreneur, licensed marriage and family therapist at Voyage Counseling, the owner of Embrace for Impact, and the owner of Indiana Family Therapy Center. Dang impressive lady. Today, Erin and I are going to be tackling really what could be a difficult topic. We are going to be discussing intimate partner violence. And Erin is not only an expert in that within her own professional field, but she does have lived experience that she will be sharing and kind of weaving into our conversation today to help us as ther-, therapists, who maybe have not experienced that for ourselves, be really tuned into the things that we could, um, maybe be missing if we just don't, if we just don't know. So, we're on a learning journey together. And Erin, thank you for being on the show and welcome.
Erin Coram: Hi, glad to be here. Um, I'd like to say I'm glad to be here, but we're probably gonna get pretty raw here in a minute, so we'll see how this goes.
Jennifer Agee: Mostly glad to be here. I'll accept the honest edit. It's okay.
Erin Coram: Okay.
Jennifer Agee: Um, so, so tell me, when we are talking about intimate partner violence and domestic violence, what are some of the things that you really feel like therapists need to know and understand better?
Erin Coram: Uh, I mean, I think they need to understand that, um, domestic violence and intimate partner violence isn't necessarily what we see in movies or the worst-case scenario. It's a very slow, um, manipulative build. Um, kind of like the, the frog in the frying pan sort of story where, you know, if you throw it in right away, turn the heat up really fast, it's gonna jump out. But if you turn the heat up very, very slowly, um, the, it doesn't even know that it's in there. It doesn't even realize that it's boiling until it's too late. And, um, it can happen to anybody, um, even therapists. So, even people that are educated on this and, um, even people that know the signs and what to look for. It's such a slow, corrosive build that you often don't even see it coming until you're in so deep that you don't exactly know how to get out.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah, I actually think that some of what makes us really good helpers and healers can also make us a little more vulnerable to people who would, um, abuse and misuse our open, empathic, trusting, um, give-people-a-chance, uh, nature. It can backfire against us.
Erin Coram: Absolutely.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: Absolutely. I mean, um, empathic people, uh, sometimes can be targets for those who want to manipulate and abuse. Um, and we tend to see the good in people, tend to keep trying to help people, you know, thinking that we can quote, fix them, um, love them enough to heal their hurts, whatever the case may be. And often, uh, again, before you realize it, you're in something so deep and so manipulative that you don't even recognize who you are anymore.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Well, and I think that's what you were alluding to in the beginning, which is it is this slow fade, right? If someone showed you their full, full true colors and if abusers showed you their full true colors right away, you would run. You know, you'd be like, ah, this is very obviously a bad, a bad person. Like, gotta get away from 'em. This is not good for us. But because it eeks out slowly, and no one person is all good or all bad, there are these other parts that then you, in order to remain in the relationship, 'cause you're invested at that point, there start to be these internal compromises that take place.
Erin Coram: Right.
Jennifer Agee: Would you say that's right?
Erin Coram: Yeah. And I think that there's, you know, there's obviously a cycle of abuse where the good comes out just when it needs to. So, just when you're about to, you know, draw the line or escape or say, hey, enough is enough, that, that good comes out, that charm, that apologetic, it'll never happen again, sort of thing. Um, and you stay a little longer, and you get a little bit more invested. And, you know, for me personally, that's when, you know, kids were coming into the picture and I'm a little bit more tied, and then there's financial investments, and it, it just keeps going until it's so deep that, um, it's really hard to separate.
Jennifer Agee: Do you feel like, um, in your own personal situation that because you were a therapist, it, it made it harder for you to go out, get out, or that you stayed longer? Or how do you think being a therapist actually impacted those decisions?
Erin Coram: Um, you know, that's a really hard question. I wasn't a therapist when I got into the relationship. I was, um, young. It, it was a, a teenage relationship that, um, turned into, uh, a marriage. And I went through grad school while we were, um, married. Um, but I think that my human nature is to see the best in people and, um, to be forgiving, and helping, and healing. And so, I think that impacted me not drawing boundaries where I needed to draw them. I think something that's really important to point out too is that, you know, we can often feel like a hypocrite as a therapist when we're in these relationships. Um, I remember specifically like going into my office each day once I was in practice, and, I mean, I could hear myself, and I remember thinking to myself, man, you're, you're a fraud. You're a hypocrite. Like, um, you're not doing any of these things you're telling people. But it's also important to say that, you know, I was still a competent therapist at that moment. I– Just, because my, you know, home life was a shit show, doesn't mean that I wasn't doing good work in the room. We're master compartmentalizers, and that's good and that's bad. Um, but I was able to compartmentalize and still do good work in the room. Um, but I also could hear myself and, and felt very much around other professionals like a fraud, and a lot of shame, and would hide this part of me from everyone, um, every professional. Like, I would go to conferences and sit in silence, or I would, you know, just hang my head and be like, these people aren't gonna think I can be a therapist because of what's going on at home. Um, and that's not really true. I mean, you can. You're a better therapist when you can integrate your two selves. Um, for sure. I'm a much, much better therapist now. Um, but you still can be a competent therapist even when you have, you know, all hell breaking loose at home.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. I think that's a really good point because rather it's domestic violence or intimate partner violence or it's, um, something else, there are moments that we all feel like a hypocrite where a client walks in the room and we're like, yeah, I'm struggling with that too. Or how, why are you coming to me for advice for that? I can't even get my own shit straight, you know, in this department. And so, there, there is sometimes that imposter syndrome where the, the behind the scenes in our, in our thinking about that. But you're absolutely right in that we are master compartmentalizers. I mean, we train for it.
Erin Coram: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: And um, sometimes we are in situations where it's do as I say, not as I do, because we're human too.
Erin Coram: Yes, absolutely. Um, and that happened often for me until I, you know, finally reached a point where I wanted to do the work. And I've, I've done that work and, and cont-, will continue to do that work, and was able to, like I say, integrate those two pieces of me, um, the, the home me and the professional me. And I think what was really important for me was just being able to stand up in a room of other professionals, and say, hey, this, this happened to me, this is my story, this is what I've been through. And, um, I, I assumed they were all gonna look at me like, oh, you shouldn't be a therapist, you're incompetent, like, what are you doing here? And instead, the reverse happened, um, where I got stories and messages and lots of people sending me, um, their stories and their message about what's happened to them. And this like healing through community and connection happened. And it, it was just very powerful and very impactful, uh, for me, for me, and I hope for them.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: Um, it's something about being able to stand in your own authenticity and say like, yep, this is my story, and I'm gonna embrace it, and I'm gonna use it to kind of heal it forward. Like, um, hey, I'm healing, and I'm gonna help you heal through these connections that we make.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. And there is something really powerful about owning your truth, and it's not until you actually start doing it and being really honest with other people that you give them the opportunity to, to show you how they really feel, to show, step up and, and prove to you that what your fear was isn't actually going to be realized. And I think the older you get and also the more you do it, the more you realize we're all just humans in the world going through this in our very best possible way. And it's messy, and it's complicated, and beautiful all at the same time, but often people will surprise you in how supportive they'll be or the stories that they have too, either that they lived themselves or they're, you know, were in their families or whatever. Um, so, I really, I really applaud you for being open and honest with your peers because I know that can be a very hard thing to do.
Erin Coram: Right. So, a big, a big part of domestic violence, intimate partner violence, uh, any abusive, um, intimate relationship is silence and secrecy. That is like the, the biggest piece is, you know, don't talk, don't tell. Silence. Secrecy. Don't, don't share this part of you. Um, and then it turns into this massive amount of, I, I guess the term is gaslighting these days, but this massive, massive amount of manipulation that, like I said earlier, before you realize it, you don't know who you are, and you don't know what's real. You don't, you're questioning your reality like, am I competent? Am I making sense? Do I know what is really happening to me? And so that just enhances that shame and that silence and that secrecy to the point that you don't wanna tell anyone because you think that you're losing your mind. Um, you know, the relationship I was in, he was a, a master at making me question my reality. And, and again, it was a slow burn. And I, I mean, I think I'm an intelligent, competent person now. It's been 10 years. It's taken me a long time to come out of that shell and to be able to use my voice. Um, because I thought my voice was stupid. I thought my voice was crazy. I thought my voice was ignorant. I thought I was overreacting, whatever, all those things that were thrown at me all the time. I mean I– He would be the kind of guy that you could catch red handed, like hand in the cookie jar, no, I don't have the cookie. You don't see this cookie. And I'm like, but it's right in front... Nope. Nope. You saw that wrong. And I would be so confused, and just doubt everything, and didn't trust anyone. And I just got very, very closed off. Um, I mean, even my closest friends and family didn't know all of what was happening to me.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: Um, you know, I rem-, there was one specific incident where I lost a, oh, I thought I lost my wedding ring. And, in fact, I found out years later that it was at a pawn shop. So, um...
Jennifer Agee: Wow.
Erin Coram: But he magically found it, you know, a few weeks later, um, in a dresser drawer or something. It had fallen down, whatever he said, and he was the hero, right? He found my ring. And I was the stupid, you know, dumb person who lost it, and I'm always doing things like that, and how irresponsible, and blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, he had taken it to a pawn shop. But these are the things that, that happen that just changes your reality. Um, and it just gets worse and worse and worse because the weaker you become, and I don't mean weak as in people who are abused are weak, but it, it breaks you down, that you don't have that agency to stand up and speak out for yourself anymore, and the power differential is so great that you're just, again, you're that frog and you're boiling and you don't know it.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Yeah. It, it makes you, makes it difficult for you to trust your own truth because you're being told that your reality isn't actually real. It reminds me of that saying, how many reputations, how many people's reputation have you protected by not telling your story? So, because when things happen, you don't go to people and say, this just happened, or they hit me last night, or whatever it was, you don't say those things, you're protecting their reputation so that when you finally do decide to leave or you talk and say, you know, I'm not so sure I can stay in this anymore, people have only seen a version of your partner that you have really protected them from, you know, to let other people believe. And I can imagine that that makes the process even harder.
Erin Coram: That's absolutely correct. Yeah. And there's this whole baiting thing that happens too, where, um, things conflict will happen, or some sort of, uh, emotionally abusive thing will be said, or maybe even a physically abusive altercation will happen like just before you have to show up at family's house for Thanksgiving or whatever. And I'm not the type of person that can just close that down. I and my emotions are real and they show, and I, they come out. But then I, if he's, you know, happy as can be and content and calm and, and I am, am an emotional wreck, then I look like the crazy one that's losing my mind, right? And that happens, so the opposite way too. So, not only am I protecting, you know, his image, he is tearing mind down so that if I ever do speak, it's not going to be believed.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. That's, I mean, it's fascinating. And the thing that's also fascinating about it is how consistent the stories are in the manipulation phases, right? Like, you can talk to people who have lived this experience or shades of this experience and they all tell very similar strains of the story when it comes to this kind of gaslighting and manipulation. It's absolutely fascinating.
Erin Coram: Right. And I think it's important as, as clinicians and therapists, when we have clients in the room that are feeling like they are less than, or they are sending those messages, and telling us, you know, I'm stupid, I can't believe I let myself be in this, I can't, you know, you probably think I'm an idiot because I am in this relationship and I should just leave, I think it's important for us to understand the breakdown of the sense of self that happens and that we have to, we have to honor that and make sure they, they can build some agency, and they understand that they aren't stupid. Um, I had a client, you know, six months ago or so where I used a little bit of self-disclosure with her. She was saying things like, um, you, I'm so stupid and you, you must think I'm so stupid that I'm in this relationship and blah, blah, blah, and you would never let yourself get into this situation. And, you know, I seized that moment, and I, I know that she sees me as a, you know, intelligent, competent person. Um, she doesn't always see the shit show on the other side, right?
Jennifer Agee: Sure.
Erin Coram: So, I used that moment to say like, hey, let me just disclose something to you. I was in something like this. I was in, you know, my story is different than yours, but I was in an abusive relationship. I was sexually assaulted. I was physically assaulted, um, definitely emotionally abused. And I have, you know, and I, I'm out of that now, but I, that did happen to me. And the look on her face, um, was just this moment where it was like, really, you? Like, and it was so powerful because she was able to kind of change those cognitions and challenge herself and be like, okay, maybe I'm not stupid. Um, and I said to her, you know, you don't, you just, you don't think I'm stupid, do you? And she said, no. And I was like, then think about that for yourself. Like, that you're not stupid for loving someone. You loved someone. That does not make you stupid.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: Now how do we give you power and agency back? Right? How do we work on that?
Jennifer Agee: Yeah, absolutely. When, when I have especially worked with couples, there's certain things that I notice in the room, um, that I, I, I will immediately pay attention to. So, if, um—and I'd love to hear some of the things that you notice or tells of like, my radar screen should be up, that maybe I should be looking in this direction—um, but like, if one of the, if one of the partners is always trying to shush the other one and take all of the space in the room to be able to set the narrative so that only one person is giving the narrative before the other person has a chance to talk, or if one is very, very quick to take all of the blame and responsibility for things, I also really pay attention to that. What are some things that, that you notice that therapists might wanna tune in to?
Erin Coram: I'll tell you, for me, it's a guttural experience. Like, I, I feel it in the room almost immediately when a couple walks in. Um, and I've done my fair share of couple's therapy. Um, and, you know, it's, it's the, the shushing, the talking down to, the kind of invalidating everything the other person says, trying to shift the story, um, shift the blame. It's, it's contempt that you can feel, like you can just, you can feel it. I watched their body language, um, how they turn toward or away from one another, um, the eye movements of, uh, the spouse that would be the one that's being abused a lot of times will be in a shame posture down, um, kind of away. Uh, you'll see a lot of clenching of hands. It's, it's a, it's a hard thing to put into words. It's such a feeling in the room of this person is in charge, and this other person is not allowed to speak. And if they do, there's gonna be some sort of consequence when they get home. And you can feel that.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: And I mean, and obviously in that moment, you just do what you can to chat or whatever for an hour so that you can get out of that. Because doing couples therapy, when there's violence involved is, is not beneficial. It can make things worse.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: You know, and then try to do individual sessions where you have a chance to talk to, um, the partner that's being abused and, and encourage them to do some individual work.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. One of the other tells when you were talking that came to my mind is if someone is immediately trying to get you on their side and, uh, and come, you know, come with like alignment of we're working on this marriage because they're the crazy person.
Erin Coram: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: Or they're the whatever. Like, I'm always very aware when somebody tries that or I can feel that pull in the room of like, it's, it's the two of us here kind of trying to help her, really, or him, you know?
Erin Coram: Yes.
Jennifer Agee: Um, it's, it's not really an “us” problem kind of thing. You can feel that immediately too.
Erin Coram: Yes, there could be baiting within a therapy session too, right? Like, saying enough that the therapist doesn't necessarily know what those triggers are, but the abuser is pushing those buttons for the abused person, and then they lose control, and then the therapist is sitting there looking at them like, oh, okay, I can see, she's emotionally reactive. And I'm using she; it could be he. Um, she's emotionally reactive. She's overreacting. She is, you know, losing her mind sort of thing. And really, it's because the things that were said were things that only she knew, and you didn't understand what those triggers were.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: Um, so, you know, you have to watch for that too and make sure that you're, you know, getting the full story. Sorry about that. That's where the, that's where the importance of those individual sessions lie.
Jennifer Agee: How did you get the strength to leave? What was your decision-making moment where you decided enough is enough here?
Erin Coram: You know, I would like to say that it was this, like, I had all this strength and whatever, but, um, honestly, I—and I'm gonna say something maybe controversial—I believe that, uh, cheating, um, and infidelity is emotional abuse, and there was a lot of infidelity. And at some point, um, I believe he chose that he was done with me, and he was moving on to someone else. Um, there was a moment where there was an attempt to come back and, and there was, you know, and I was able to kind of slam that door. Um, but I don't know, if that hadn't happened, if I would've left or not. I, I hope so. Um, there was a, a very violent, um, episode shortly after we separated, um, that led me to the hospital and, um, has now cause me– I don't, this is some sort of reaction that I'm having, obviously. Um, there's the trauma coming outta my throat, right?
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: Um, but that led me to the hospital, and I have to, um, have multiple surgeries and, um, multiple hospital stays. And, you know, through all of that, it's, it's, I've been able to heal, and it's become very clear that that was the right decision to slam that door at that moment. Um, but I'm really, really grateful to the woman that had the relationship with him because she opened my eyes and, um, that, and she let, made him leave. Like, he, he wanted her, and he left. And that saved my life, honestly.
Jennifer Agee: Wow. Wow. What did the, what did the road to recovering and reclaiming your own power and agency look like afterwards? 'Cause I can imagine it's, it's almost being like spit out of a tornado.
Erin Coram: That is a good way to describe it. Yeah, it was, it was really tough. Um, I have two boys, and, um, you know, they, they saw and experienced their fair share of things, and they both have been in therapy and have done their own healing. Um, but yeah, I was a, uh, pretty much a single parent for quite a while. He wasn't super involved. And I was working around the clock, so that was tough. I think I was able to kind of ignore some of the trauma stuff, um, put it away in a certain way by working at the level I was, so, obviously, that was a, you know, a trauma response. That's what I did to cope, was I just worked and worked and worked, and opened a practice, and worked and worked and worked, and ignored, ignored, ignored until my body said, whoop. We're, we're not ignoring this anymore. Like, um, you, I, I almost died. I, you know, um, I have, I'm a type one diabetic. Um, I went into DKA, which is diabetic ketoacidosis. Um, and I went into the hospital, the ICU for several days. Um, I had internal tears, um, from an assault that I had left untreated that, um, I had been told about at one doctor visit, but that doctor, uh, it's not that she didn't do a good job with me, she just didn't know everything. And so, it scared me. And so, I ran, essentially. And so, three years later, those internal tears had become terribly infected and had turned into, um, an abscess and, um, something called a fistula—y'all can look that up—um, that required a lot of surgery to repair. Um, and I couldn't ignore it anymore, so I had to pay attention. And that was the moment that I got my ass into therapy, uh, and intensive therapy, I mean, uh, a couple times a week for, uh, two years, uh, at this point, and I'm not done obviously, so that, that's–
Jennifer Agee: Yeah, the bo-, the body keeps the score, right? You know that what we learn in grad school is that your body holds the trauma, and if you don't deal with it, at some point, you will pay a price for not dealing with it. Like–
Erin Coram: I mean, it sure does. So, whatever just happened in my throat, I don't know what that was, but I can imagine that I'm using my voice, and I haven't publicly used my voice in this way before, so I can imagine that it is, uh, my body is speaking for me with that, uh, that reaction that just happened. That was this, this a very honest, like, whoa, this is scary. Like, I'm speaking these things out and, um, putting them out into wherever this goes. So–
Jennifer Agee: I wore a special shirt for you today. You probably can't see it 'cause I have my big podcasting microphone in front of it, but it's the RBG shirt that says, Speak Your Mind Even if Your Voice is Shaking.
Erin Coram: Okay. Yeah. Well, my voice was shaking. I wore my special socks that say, Do Epic Shit.
Jennifer Agee: I love that.
Erin Coram: So, yeah, I mean, it's hard to put it out there and, um, to speak about, especially those, the injuries that I sustained were, you know, um, from a sexual assault, and, um, I had to go repetitively to medical appointments and, um, essentially be poked and prodded in all those same places. And to have all these medical professionals, you know, standing around, um, you know, inserting tools and had to go under and be like, have a surgery on, you know, on, on my– I had to have a surgery, a rectal surgery. And it, being under and knowing that people are going to be in there and doing medically what they need to do, but after you've experienced something like that, is terrifying. Um, and doctors don't always understand all that's going on. I would not have made it through without my colorectal surgeon. Um, and because she, I told her the whole story. She was fabulous. Um, I mean, she's one that was like hugging me after surgeries and cheering with me that my last surgery I just had in January. Um, she came in the room cheering for me because she thinks it's the last, uh, last rectal surgery I'll have to have. I mean, I think we're on like number five. And thank goodness, I hope that she's right, but just having her cheer for me and having her understand why this is such a big deal and why it is, takes a tremendous amount of strength to even go into that doctor's office, you know, um, matters. It's, it's a big deal.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. That's a, I mean, that's a whole 'nother level of vulnerability, right? Like, we don't wanna hide from our doctors because we need the best possible care, but some of the things that were done, I'm sure were incredibly difficult and painful to have to say out loud, um, say to another person while looking in their face. Like, I'm sure it was retraumatizing on different levels too.
Erin Coram: Yeah, I mean, when you go to a colorectal specialist, you go in there, you gotta drop your pants, and they're looking in, they're looking in your butt hole, right? I mean–
Jennifer Agee: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's no way around it. That's what they're there for.
Erin Coram: That's the word I got for it, kids. But, um, but yeah. And, and it's just so like exposing and vulnerable. And, um, there were times that I just had tears streaming down my face the entire time and the entire exam. And, you know, her medical assistant would hold my hand, and um, you know, my wife was able to come in the room with me sometimes. And just having that support of them understanding, like I'm not just someone who's, like—I think it'd be hard for anyone—but I'm not just someone who's modest or doesn't, you know, like doctors or whatever. Like, you are literally reentering a trauma space that hurts for me. Um, and to have doctors understand that, you know, those of us that have had any domestic violence, especially with injury, we're gonna be in your doctor's offices, and we're gonna need you to give us a sense of agency, give us a sense of like, we have our own voice. We can tell you no. We can tell you to go slower. We can say, I don't wanna do that procedure today. Um, and my doctor gave me that. There were times that she could have, you know, done procedures in the office under mild anesthesia, or there were times, or she'd give me the choice, or we can put you under and we can go in the operating room. Uh, please put me under. Let's go in the operating room. At one time, I did one on the table, and it was 'cause it was an emergent, and I had to. Um, something had to be drained. But otherwise, please put me under, and let me go into the operating room so that I don't have to re-experience this.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Well, and it strikes me that this is something that, as a therapist, if you have clients that are coming in who are then seeking medical care or treatment of other kinds, you can teach them that it's okay to advocate for themselves in the room with medical professionals and other professionals and how to do that. Role play that in sessions so that you're really helping to empower and equip them to use their voice and define the words. I did wanna, um, loop around, though, because you had told me before we actually started some interesting statistics on, um, chronic illness.
Erin Coram: Yeah.
Jennifer Agee: And so, can you share that with the audience?
Erin Coram: So, I mean, these are different samples that I've read. I'm sure their stats are different in different places, but most of what I read and see is that 70% of adult women, and they, you know, they define adult women as, uh, 30 plus on these studies, is, uh, 70% of adult women have some sort of chronic health condition. I mean, that can range from migraines to, um, lupus, to rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes. There's lots of different things that were in that study, but that increases to over 88% for women that have been, uh, sexually abused or involved in any form of intimate partner violence or domestic violence.
Jennifer Agee: Wow.
Erin Coram: So, if we think about 88% of the women coming into us that, you know, have any sort of violence in their history or any sort of abuse in their history and add on, uh, the prevalence of chronic illness in women, we need to be paying attention to teaching them that agency that you speak of, um, so that they can speak up for themselves in doctor's appointments. Um, I went to a doctor's appointment recently, uh, where I had to be exposed, and it was a new doctor. Um, and I was real-, I was very nervous about it, and I kind of disclosed a little bit to the nurse, but then the doc-, the surgeon came in, and she, you know, she, I'm just a body to her. Like, she just, let me look, da da da da da. And I said, I said something like about being nervous. And she said, or being uncomfortable or modest or whatever, and she said, well, if we're gonna do the surgery, there's gonna be a whole lot of people looking at you, so you better get used to it.
Jennifer Agee: Oh no.
Erin Coram: And luckily, you know, two years of therapy, uh, 10 years of growth and, and resilience, and my, you know, my inner warrior came out, and I said, nope, let me just stop you right there. I do not have to get used to it. I do not have to get used to it. And you can approach me with, you know, as a human and with empathy and comfort, and we can, I can open this gown, you can do what you need to do very quickly while I'm anxious and doing what I need to do to get through it. And then we can cover me back up before we have a conversation.
Jennifer Agee: Good.
Erin Coram: She, she got shaky and dropped her pen. I think I might have scared her. But you know, it's important that, that we do speak to these doctors, and say like, hey, look, I have a right to be treated with dignity and authenticity, and I don't need you to tell me what I have to do and how I should be. And me getting out my breasts for you is not normal. Normal people don't walk around doing that. Normal to you 'cause you do it all day, every day. Not normal for me.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah, those statistics are pretty, um, surprise– I mean, not surprising because I understand the body's role in storing trauma and, and all that it does to keep us safe, you know, and that it pays a price for that.
Erin Coram: Absolutely.
Jennifer Agee: And those protective parts. Yeah.
Erin Coram: Yeah. I mean, I think, I think chronic illness is, is much bigger than we realize, an invisible illness that people don't see. Um, you know, as a type one diabetic, I, I deal with that often. People don't always understand what all I have to do every day to just live and survive. Um, but it also makes my body susceptible to more autoimmune disorders the more stress I'm under. So, it just kind of kept snowballing. And it just snowballed and snowballed until my body was like, okay, we're not doing this anymore. Um, and I think it's very important for us to teach our clients like, hey, this is what happens when your body's under stress. And hey, that stomachache you're having is not just a stomachache. Like, it's, there's some trauma in there. Let's work on that. Let's figure out what's going on, and let's heal.
Jennifer Agee: Yeah.
Erin Coram: Let's heal it forward.
Jennifer Agee: Exactly. And the, the power of you being able to help educate someone on what's happening in the body after you have experienced trauma, that when you feel these things, that doesn't mean you're going crazy, or that doesn't mean X, Y, or Z. Some of these things are manifestations of everything that you went through. And sometimes I think understanding that helps us be more compassionate with ourselves when we, when we are struggling.
Erin Coram: Yeah. It does. It does. And it's important to pay attention to your body. It, it'll talk to you. It'll tell you what's going on.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm.
Erin Coram: Um, and, you know, like I, like I said, I tried to ignore it for what, seven years. Um, wasn't happening, just wasn't happening. Uh, you can't ignore it. You've, you've got to pay attention, and you've also, uh, you deserve to take care of yourself. You deserve to heal, and you know, you de-, you deserve to have that medical care, and you deserve to have that empathetic therapist that will stand with you and walk through the fire with you.
Jennifer Agee: Mm-hmm. Thank you for standing up and speaking your truth. And I really hope that for therapists listening, it helps to give them more insight into what's happening in the room when they are with clients who've maybe experienced partner violence. Um, and I just hope it was informative and helpful because it's not something we talk much about in grad school. It's like a blip on the radar screen, maybe a half a day is discussed, you know, in all of grad school, and it, it actually affects so many people that we should spend a lot more time on it. So, thank you so much for being on today. How can people connect with you?
Erin Coram: So, you can connect with me on my, uh, group practices called Voyage Counseling. So, www.voyagecounseling.com. Um, we've also started a, a retreat speaking business called Embrace for Impact. Um, again, coming out of what, um, I've been through and what my business partner, Becca Love, has been through. We are combining together to try to give that sense of community and voice to, um, people that have experienced this, and so they can stand up and know that they're competent and capable too, and that they're, you know, they're loved and worthy. Um, so that, that's on, uh, Facebook, TikTok, uh, Instagram, [CORRECTION] embrace4impact.net, and then embrace for impact retreats on Facebook.
Jennifer Agee: Awesome. Well, I... Hey, look, therapists, if you get a chance to go to one of their retreats, you really should. You're gonna learn a lot, you're gonna grow a lot, and you'll be surrounded by some pretty awesome human beings. Thank you again for listening today. If you wanna connect more with me or the podcast, counselingcommunity.com. All of our future retreats are also listed on there. Get out there and live your best dang life.