Rick and Monique Elgersma have for 30 years been partners in life and partners in business. Since 2015 they have been co-therapy specialists. They’ve experienced ups and downs like any couple and sought counseling. They noted the difficulty of both of them feeling heard, understood, and respected at the same time! Alas, Co-Therapy was born.
Rick and Monique share the reason they have chosen to own a practice built using co-therapy, the practicalities like scheduling and billing and how to maintain a healthy work-life business when you are married and business partners.
Counseling together with clients certainly creates balance in the counseling room and reduces bias. Co-Therapy makes certain that no one will get ganged up on or feel left out of the counseling process. And, Co-Therapy is more creative and collaborative, a true “round table” equality-driven effort in the counseling room. Three years ago they added the enneagram to their efforts for clients, and have since become enneagram experts and coaches.
OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:
Rick and Monique Elgersma have for 30 years been partners in life and partners in business. Since 2015 they have been co-therapy specialists. They’ve experienced ups and downs like any couple and sought counseling. They noted the difficulty of both of them feeling heard, understood, and respected at the same time! Alas, Co-Therapy was born.
Rick and Monique share the reason they have chosen to own a practice built using co-therapy, the practicalities like scheduling and billing and how to maintain a healthy work-life business when you are married and business partners.
Counseling together with clients certainly creates balance in the counseling room and reduces bias. Co-Therapy makes certain that no one will get ganged up on or feel left out of the counseling process. And, Co-Therapy is more creative and collaborative, a true “round table” equality-driven effort in the counseling room. Three years ago they added the enneagram to their efforts for clients, and have since become enneagram experts and coaches.
OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:
Jennifer Agee:
Hello. Hello, and welcome to Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School. I'm your host Jennifer Agee, licensed clinical professional counselor. And with me today are Rick and Monique Elgersma. They're the owners of Real Connections Counseling located in Iowa, and I brought them on the podcast today to talk to us about co-therapy because that is something that they do. So welcome Rick and Monique to the show.
Monique Elgersma:
Thank you for having us.
Jennifer Agee:
Absolutely. So, tell me a little bit about how you got into doing co-therapy together and why and just a little bit about it.
Monique Elgersma:
Well, Rick and I actually got into co-therapy in a unique way. We had some friends, we had a friend that came up to us shortly after he started dating his now wife and said, "hey, we'd like you to mentor us," and we're like, "what?" And so, we actually ended up mentoring them through their dating, their first year of marriage. We're their oldest daughter's godparents. So, we've obviously stayed in contact with them, but that was something that kind of had us thinking about, wow, this is something we could do together.
Rick Elgersma:
Yep.
Monique Elgersma:
But, you know, we needed to go to grad school and all that stuff to become marriage and family therapists first, and we had to do that individually and on our own. But we did go to school with the intent that we would actually do therapy as a team with clients because we saw the benefit of having two different perspectives and even when we were just doing kind of more of a coaching situation.
Jennifer Agee:
Mhmm.
Rick Elgersma:
The other thing about that was Monique and I have been together for 30 years, and we've had ups and downs. And so, we've had a time in counseling as as a couple. And there were times in that experience where I felt a little bit left out or a little bit misunderstood, and those kinds of things are part of what gave us the impetus to start a co-therapy practice.
Jennifer Agee:
Okay. And do you only work with couples, or do you use this with individual clients, families? Tell me a little bit about kind of the the lay of the land here. Just share what you know.
Rick Elgersma:
Mostly couples. We're here as a couples counseling, as relationship experts. However, we have had individuals ask for a co-therapy, and it becomes, kind of, this little team together working at a problem for the individual. We do families as well. Families and co-therapy works really well. It becomes a bit more like a gathering, instead of more like from an expert to a client perspective, which we found that with couples too that it's more like a roundtable gathering where all of us form a team to work against a problem.
Jennifer Agee:
Mhmm. Yeah. I know even in grad school, I enjoyed when we would do co-therapy even with individuals that we worked with. You know, getting the additional perspective was very helpful. And I've also, I've been with my husband for 30 years, and so there's many times I bring him in the room even when he's not physically present in the room. You know, I channel I've learned from him for sure all the time. So, I'm sure having both of those perspectives is really helpful. How do you kind of manage that in the room? And who talks and who doesn't talk? And who steps up? And when do you do that? Like, what is the practicality of this look like?
Monique Elgersma:
Well, when we're… We've actually started a group practice recently, so we had to train some other people to do what we do, so we had to kind of perfect that a little bit. Some of it's natural, but Rick is narrative- and EFT-focused. I'm solution-focused and more CBT-focused. So, when we're looking for specific skills, I might lead that. Or if we really need to get to the emotion, I might take a step and let Rick kinda take the lead on the session. We have some rules that we've kind of established over the years, and we've trained our co-therapists like, your idea, your lead. So, if you kinda start bringing something into the room, the other therapist kinda takes, not like a step out, but they take a step back and let you kind of lead it in, and they’re more supplemental and helping to maybe reexplain something if it looks like one of the clients are confused, or sometimes, you know, when someone needs a little more pushing, the other therapist can do that. And then, the therapist that's not doing the pushing might be able to pull the spouse into the room or the partner into the room, watching them for their facial expressions and their nonverbals. And that way we bring that into the room. That's one of the benefits of having two therapists in there is you have two people that are watching the clients. Then you can get a better sense of some of those nonverbals than you would if you were by yourself.
Rick Elgersma:
And the other check and balance, well, we have four rules, but one of the most important checks and balances of our practice is don't hog the room. Meaning, if somebody's really headed in a direction, we have kind of natural stopping points so that we both get involved in the conversation because they can feel that. They can understand that if one person is really taking over and just talks for 35 minutes, so we wanna create a really nice check and balance for each other, making sure that none of us hogs the room, and shares it instead.
Monique Elgersma:
And even along those same lines, purposely bringing your co-therapist into the room is really important, right? Because we're trying to teach them, model some of that relational give and take and, you know, sharing the space and even correcting ourselves like, “Oh, I'm sorry. Did I interrupt you? Like, why don't you go ahead and finish what you were gonna say.” Teaching them that it's okay to acknowledge that, “Oh, wait. I stepped on his toes, and I need to take a step back.”
Rick Elgersma:
She'll even say I have no idea where you're going sometimes. Like, Rick help me understand the direction you're headed in, and so that she can keep up. And that makes sense for in a couple perspective too because we help couples learn to address each other in respectful and really cool ways, and “help me understand as one of those,” so we use that, we use that ongoing.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. It's excellent role modeling. You alluded to a couple times now for rules. So we've heard two. What are the other two rules?
Monique Elgersma:
Debrief at the end. That's the fourth rule. Sorry. I gotta think about which ones we've said. Debrief after. Right? So, we have to make sure that when we're done with the session that we're talking about how it went as a co-therapy team, but also, like, what did you see that maybe I missed within the session with the clients? So, we like to have that, you know, that good ten-minute debrief before we even do notes and whatever to make sure we're on the same page or, you know, maybe I did hog the room and Rick needs to say, “Hey. You really kinda dominated in there, and you didn't let the client speak,” or “I had something I wanted to share,” you know, so that we don't do that the next time. So, we're learning. It's almost like constant consultation. It's great.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah.
Rick Elgersma:
It's really such a safe feeling. Honestly, I know me and I know many other therapists out there, you know, alluding to the name of your podcast. We feel a little bit like, oh my gosh, what’d I do in this session? And we sort of have to bounce the ideas off of ourselves. This takes, the rule takes that away, and we bounce off each other, and it makes such a big difference. And the other rule is really just the opposite end of the coin of the your idea, your lead, and that's follow the leader well. Excuse me. Learning how to follow the leader and make sure that you're not using facial expressions. Like, I was going into different direction and things like that, are not helpful for some reason. And so, you really have to go for… Take some practice to learn how to follow the leader well because like she said, I have my own extension of the story is where I usually go to. And so, that's what I'm driven towards, and if she heads into CBT land, I have to know that I can follow really well. So, takes a little bit of practice, but it's it's amazing when it happens.
Jennifer Agee:
Mhmm.
Monique Elgersma:
You kind of alluded to something, Jennifer. I don't wanna hog the room here either, but you alluded to something earlier about, you know, we did this in grad school. It was part of our practicum usually, at least, or maybe if you did some role modeling in class and that sort of thing. We did it with real clients where we were paired up with another person, and it sure made the room feel a little bit less scary as a new therapist you know, working out, because you don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to have the quick thought. You can just allow the room to go where it goes and hope that you're co-therapist can step in and do that for you sometimes. We have those moments too. If I'm having a harder day where my brain's not clicking on all cylinders, you know, Rick knows that. He's, like, he's my partner in the therapy room, and so he can step in and help take the lead until I kinda get myself back on track, or if he needs to explain something that I didn't explain well, or he's having a, you know, sometimes he'll have a bad pain day. Well, you know, we wanna be able to help each other and and help our co-therapist. And that works in any team. If you've got, a good co, a regular co, you kinda know how they're doing and how to step in and make that a better experience for your clients. It really does give a better experience to your clients.
Rick Elgersma:
Yep.
Jennifer Agee:
What do you do if one of you is sick for the day? Do you still meet with a couple individually, like, as an individual, or do you cancel the session?
Rick Elgersma:
Well, we use some creativity. Sometimes, it depends on if I feel super sick, well, then I'm in bed. But if I feel sick and it's not right to go into the office, then we will adjust to video if we can. We have done it where the where Monique or I does take over for the session, and we can do creative things like adjust the price for that session. Even when our couples get that cheaper price, they always look forward to coming back to the co-therapy, which is really interesting, but we've got a sense of a balance there where we just call it like Rick is sick. What do you wanna do? Here are our options and let them choose. So, it's pretty, it's relational that way too.
Monique Elgersma:
It's up to the client. I mean, if they would rather just do the two people, then we wait.
Rick Elgersma:
Mhmm.
Monique Elgersma:
Reschedule.
Jennifer Agee:
So, let's talk about money, honey, because you mentioned it, and I'm curious. So, how do you get paid with co-therapy? Do you take insurance? No insurance? Do you bill individuals? Do you just bill for a block? Like, I want to hear and learn it all. So, bring it on.
Monique Elgersma:
Well, you know, we're, as far as we can tell, we've done a little bit of research. There's not a lot of us out there doing co-therapy, so we're still trying to get ourselves priced at the right rate. So, we won't necessarily talk about our rate, but we do private pay. We do, one of the other things that we moved to, and it's a standard thing for us, is 80-minute sessions. Well, no insurance is gonna cover 80 minutes. So, that knocks insurance out of even the possibility. But you also have two therapists you have to pay out of that. So, because there's two therapists and 80-minute sessions, we don't take insurance. It’s private pay only.
Rick Elgersma:
We were actually really scared of that. And for any agency out there thinking maybe I'd like to bring a co-therapy team in, we were pretty scared in 2015 when we started. What if people don't like this? What if they, since it's cash pay, what if they don't wanna pay the price for two people and all of that? We, from our first client, we really truly haven't looked back, and we are building teams now into Real Connections Counseling. We're hiring again. It's turned out that every price we've chosen with the 80 minutes and the two counselors, it provides such a good balance in the room that the price becomes really just a number for them instead of a cost. The exponential value of having this relational system as part of their therapy experience has been a wonder for them, and we've heard that over and over and over again. We're one of the most reviewed counseling companies in Iowa, which is kinda cool. So, that kind of experience has gone forward with us since 2015.
Monique Elgersma:
And, you know, we have an admin that’s doing a great job of, you know, having those initial 20-minute phone consults where she talks about the benefits of co-therapy, having two therapists in the room with the different perspectives. It helps reduce the bias. It helps making sure both sides are being heard, seen, and understood, the things that people really want when they come into the counseling session. The other piece that's another advantage is it might cost more upfront. We delay because we're doing 80-minute sessions, we often do every other week or every three weeks when we see clients. So, they're getting more time in between sessions. So, the cost when they look at it from that perspective is probably not a whole lot more than if they're paying cash pay for a single therapist, but they're getting so much more. Because with an 80-minute session, we get to the root of the issue, and we've resolved it before we leave the session rather than, you know, 30 minutes in, they tell you what's really going on, and you got 15 minutes to try to clean that up in a nice little bow and reschedule for next time. And otherwise, you have to try to come back to that same place of vulnerability in the next session. We don't have to. We can take that, and we can work with it. We can create a new skill. We can work through it. And then reschedule the next session, and they're taking those skills or the that learning with them when they leave. And so, the next time we come in, it's a whole new, most of the time, a whole new topic that we're gonna focus on and work through.
Rick Elgersma:
Right.
Jennifer Agee:
I was wondering about time. That was actually the next thing I'd written on my piece of paper of like, ah, I wanna ask about this. 80 minutes almost doesn't seem like that would be long enough because you've got four personalities in the room, really. I mean two are clients, but you've got four personalities in the room. So, how did you arrive at the 80-minute is your sweet spot?
Rick Elgersma:
Well, that's a great question. We were part of a focus group in Miami with some people that we mutually, know Laura Long, Ernesto, and a few others. And they… we had help from Laura while we were in Miami, and she's the one that's told us, I'm not sure your 50 minutes is nearly long enough. So, really, we started at 80 minutes, and we found, you know, just our last couple last week had two 2-hour sessions in a row, back to back, day to day. So, 2-hour sessions are starting to become more and more popular. 80 minutes has worked really well, though, because of the team environment. You would think that, you know, we're four personalities trying to crash ourselves into the room. But in the end, once we… We call it showing up for practice is how we term it. And so, when we become a team and we all show up for practice and we all play our part, then all of our personalities aren't just, like, molecules in the air smashing into each other. It creates a really nice even sense about what's supposed to happen in the counseling room.
Jennifer Agee:
Mhmm.
Monique Elgersma:
Part of it too was when we we're working with the couples, we realized we weren't… the intake at 50 minutes wasn't enough. We weren't getting enough information. So, we started our intake first as an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and 20 minutes, and realizing that that was a pretty good cutoff for that. And so, we're like, well, let's try the 80 minutes and see, allowing us to get a lot further, because I'm sure most therapists that are gonna be listening to this realize that their clients seem to hit that “this is what's really going on” at 25, 30 minutes in, and they've only got that 15 minutes to try to through it. And we're like, hey, if we extend it to 80 minutes, we've got 50 minutes left over yet, at least 40 to 45 minutes to actually work through the issue. And it's been pretty good, but definitely there are a few times that when we're getting it, we’re about, like, we've got about 5 minutes left. They're like, really? Already? You know, like, that's an hour and a half already. I'm like, yeah. Pretty much. And we have done a couple of these 2-hour, we call them 2-hour intensives, but 2-hour sessions, and a few of our people are like, we want 2-hour sessions. We're like, okay.
Rick Elgersma:
Yep.
Monique Elgersma:
So, we're doing those.
Jennifer Agee:
Absolutely. And I think across the board, more and more people are willing to do longer intensive sessions, even if insurance doesn't pay, because when you're in distress, you wanna get to the meat and potatoes, and you wanna get out of distress as soon as humanly possible. And so, if you can take time and intentionally really focus, carve out the time in your schedule to focus, it makes a lot of sense for people, even just in a practical term. Like, I'd rather take off 2 hours from work now than 1 hour a week for multiple, multiple, multiple weeks of doing this. If I can do this for a couple weeks in a row, I can kind of also help in that way too.
Rick Elgersma:
Now that kinda brings us to something that's kind of important. And we have done clients by ourselves, too, here and there, and what we've noticed, and I don't know what other people have noticed, anyone out there who does co-therapy, but co-therapy allows couples to move through counseling faster than we're able to get through counseling with a single counselor with a couple. And that not only saves them valuable time so they can be at work, but that saves them distress like you mentioned, that saves them money, it allows them to enjoy their life more quickly than it would have.
Jennifer Agee:
So, I'm kind of curious. I know you guys have a retreat coming up, and was that kind of born out of what you were seeing with clients as feeling like people need maybe even like a weekend intensive of being able to get away and focus on things? So, where did that come from?
Monique Elgersma:
Well, you know, we have found that there are some fundamental things that we do with every client that comes in, some skills that we teach because it's just something that they need, communication, conflict resolution. We talk about the enneagram, boundaries, and our time-out system, and some of those things. We're doing that with every client anyway. And we thought, well, what if we did a retreat where we can teach that in a group setting, but then give some people some one-on-one intensive time with us as therapists to work through with more specifically maybe their particular communication issue or their particular hurt, but we're still giving them that foundational stuff that we would be teaching if they came to us, you know, in sessions. And we can do it all at in a 5-day period and really get to the meat and potatoes and get down to down and dirty, but they've got the foundation so that when they come back, if they decide to continue to see us as clients later or if we send them to a therapist later, then they've got that foundational stuff already, so then they can start focusing on what they're really struggling with in therapy rather than just learning how to do the basic skills to have good communication and learning how to resolve conflict. So, we figured this would be a good way to start doing that. Do some intensive work with the individual couples, but give them learning from each other and some foundation skills.
Rick Elgersma:
That's right. And then there was the other piece of that, in that, well, Monique and I are sort of relationship retreat junkies. We've been to 12 or 13 of them and have enjoyed them, but we've noticed some things that have been missing that we're applying to our intensive. And one of those models what we do in the counseling room in developing a team system, and we want couples to learn how to help couples because we've all had ups and downs. We've all had good experiences. We've all had times where we know that we should have done something different. We don't want our couples to share, unless they really truly want to, their deepest darkest secrets. That's not what we mean by couples helping couples, but we want couples to team up as part of our intensive and help each other grow, help each other learn. And we've got the curriculum sort of balanced in a way that gives them that opportunity And so, we're carrying that team environment to the intensive space.
Jennifer Agee:
I love that. Yeah. It sounds like a natural extension of the work that you are doing in your practice already.
Monique Elgersma:
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it's a retreat and an intensive, right? So, there's also gonna be ample time for couples to just spend time together, to reconnect, to talk about some of the tough stuff, and away from their life. But we don't want them to just… You know, the hard part, I think, for a lot of people when they go to, like, a marriage retreat or conference or something like that is then they go back into their life and they're like, now what do we do? And we want them to leave with some practical things, some skills. And maybe they really connect with one of the other couples, and they can hold each other accountable, or keep in contact and help grow each other too. So–
Rick Elgersma:
And we'll form social media groups for them as well, private groups, so that they can continue that work that we had them start at the intensive.
Jennifer Agee:
Nice. What are some of the biggest themes that you are seeing come up in your work with couples now?
Monique Elgersma:
Communication, conflict resolution, lack of boundaries.
Jennifer Agee:
Okay. So, same stuff that's been in existence since forever, but it looks a little bit different probably because of social media and having computers in our hands at all times.
Monique Elgersma:
That would be a definite one is that a lot of people are struggling with, you know, how to disconnect from social media and focus on each other. Prioritizing each other in a relationship, I think, is probably a really big one, especially if you’re parents with young kids or blended family. It can get really, really tough for how do you carve out time for each other? How do you prioritize each other? And how do you have each other's back so that it isn't doesn't look like, you know, mom against them, or the stepmom or stepdad against the kids, or you know, whatever. How do you blend so that you look like a partnership and a team when you're parenting, when you're connecting, when you're, you know, modeling for your family?
Rick Elgersma:
It's amazing when we ask the question, what does it mean to have your partner's back? And the first time we asked it, we really thought it was a relatively simple question. That's been one of the hardest questions for couples to answer, which alludes to a big, a strong problem in there's a lot of individualism out there, a lot of not partnering up. The other thing that we've really noticed, there are a lot of social media cheaters, especially maybe through COVID, a lot of these people got caught. And so, they're moving into counseling. And we've seen a pretty strong pattern of them coming to counseling, and we've been really successful with them. We're happy about that, but we're seeing a lot of that.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. And all of those things make perfect sense to me. And I, you know, I just reflect back because my husband and I, we walk together most nights. And the older we've gotten, now that we're empty nesters, our conversations are a lot deeper than they were when the kids were little, because when the kids were little, a lot of our conversations focused around very practical matters and management of the household things. And I think also just having space and recognition that there are phases and seasons of life, phases and seasons of who you need to be and show up as, you know, to be effective in those different phases, but maintaining connection so that, when the kids are gone and all, you know, all those things settle down, that you still have the friendship there that's gonna sustain this next phase of life too.
Monique Elgersma:
Absolutely. One of the things that we will probably do retreat as well, but one of the things we definitely do with our couples when they really have not been doing a good job of connecting or prioritizing each other, we talk about, you know, you don't have to do it our way, but how are you being intentional about connecting with your spouse or your partner? What are you doing that's specifically to connect with them? And then, oh, well, I don't know. You know, most of them don't have a regular date night or any kind of like plan in place to take a walk at night together or, you know, make sure that the kids are all in bed by 9 so you've got a half an hour where you can just be together and snuggle, or talk, or, you know, watch a show you wanna watch that's not child friendly maybe, or something like that. And a lot of them aren't doing that and that, you know, we'll start with the basics like that. What are you doing to connect for even a half an hour with your partner? Because if you're not connecting, what's gonna happen when the kids are gone?
Rick Elgersma:
There's a couple of things too with that in that, in grad school, we heard over and over again, and I'm sure you did too, don't talk about yourselves. Then the next class, don't talk about yourselves. Then the next class, don't talk about yourselves. Drowned it in. Drowned it in. What we found with the co-therapy experiences is that we talk about ourselves a lot. The connection piece, you know, when a couple comes in and says, well, we've just lost our chemistry. We start asking him, what is chemistry, until they get to the point where they understand that chemistry really is a choice. Love is a choice. Connection is a choice. And we tell them the times in our lives where we weren't connecting, where we weren't choosing to make that chemistry happen. Chemistry is all about mixing ingredients to make something happen. And so, we mix ingredients to make something happen. And we do that in the counseling room too, but we use our own stories a lot to talk about what chemistry really is about.
Jennifer Agee:
Mhmm. I think the days of grad schools telling us we're supposed to be Tabula Rosa. Right? We're supposed to be the blank slate. I think those of us that have been therapists for any period of time. Right? If you've been in this game for any length of time, and are not just brand spanking new, you know that that's a load of poo. Like, that is not the way it actually works in real life because we're human beings in the room with other human beings. And a part of how we connect and grow is through each other's stories and through understanding that someone's been there, and they've been able successfully navigate a stage that you might feel really, you know, hopeless or helpless in. And so, I think it's incredibly helpful, especially in couple's work. You know, you're not the only couple that's done this and successfully navigated through it to be better and stronger on the other side.
Rick Elgersma:
Yeah.
Jennifer Agee:
I do wanna ask, how do you guys balance home and work? Do you have any rituals at the end of the day? Because you're married, you've been together a long time, and you work together all the time. So, how do you kind of compartmentalize and leave work at work, or what do you guys do for that?
Rick Elgersma:
I visualize not seeing her at all.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. Right? [LAUGHTER]
Monique Elgersma:
You know, it was a little bit of a learning curve for us, you know, initially, especially, you know, when we first started our private practice trying to get going, it was easy to let them blend in, but we tried deliberately to leave work at work. And so, if we decide we're going to do any work stuff at home, we talk about when it is and how long it'll be so that, you know, most of our focus for work doing couples work or doing just business, because we have a private practice, is done at our private practice building. And we live about a half an hour away from our office, and we luck out where we're out of town. So, we get a nice, scenic drive on the way home. We have a couple rituals. One of them is we listen to books or podcasts or something on our drive home. We're not necessarily talking. We hopefully have already debriefed before we left the office so that we can just enjoy some downtime before we get back into our personal lives. We deliberately do not see clients late on Thursdays, and we have a date night on Thursdays. So, we'll leave work from here. We'll leave from here and go do something for a date together. We have an adult daughter that lives with us, and she also does not want us to bring work home. So, she wants her parents when they come home and not therapists at home. So–
Rick Elgersma:
She has literally sent us back to the garage to reset. So, that we come back in as her parents instead of people who are still at work and disturbed by something.
Jennifer Agee:
Good for her. Good for her.
Rick Elgersma:
I know. She's the wise one in the family. Let me tell you.
Monique Elgersma:
It's important that we keep those things separate. If we have to do work at home, we let the other person know, and we just kinda separate and do it. We have an office. We can go into the office, close the door when I come out of that office.
Rick Elgersma:
She's Monique.
Monique Elgersma:
I'm on the mom and the daughter. I mean, the mom and the wife, not the therapist. So–
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think, whether you're doing co-therapy or not, for the therapists that are listening, especially if you're newer and you haven't created these habits or rituals for yourself, it's really important to let your home be your sanctuary. Let your home still be your home. And for those of us who transitioned to working out of the house, especially during COVID, that got trickier for us. And so, try and figure out how you're going to do that if you're not already doing that. I know I made a rule for myself a long time ago that I did not want work to cross the threshold of my home. So, on the way home on particularly bad days, I drive by the lake or I'd go get a drink from Sonic and just kinda try and let the day wash off of me and process before I got home. But when COVID happened, and we're all in the house all the time and a lot of spouses or partners are in the house with you all the time. I think that compartmentalization gets even trickier. So, if you don't have, if you don't already have a ritual, I encourage you to really think about that. Well, I just cannot thank you both enough for being on the podcast today. It's been super interesting and informative. I think co-therapy is amazing. I think it's going to be an up-and-coming way of doing couples work, especially as more couples are wanting to do intensive work. So, let people know how they can get in touch with you or how they could register to attend your retreat.
Monique Elgersma:
Well, the easiest way to access both of those would be to go to our website at realconnectionscounseling.com. And we have links to a retreat there, information about co-therapy there. You know, it's an ever-changing thing for a website. We hope to start having, for therapists, to have a link for some curriculum. We're working on that if people want to add co-therapy as part of their practice. So, we're not there yet, but we thought we'd put a bug out there. Maybe that'll help to get a fire under us to get that done, but–
Rick Elgersma:
It's coming.
Jennifer Agee:
Perfect.
Monique Elgersma:
And then you can also reach us if you're in Iowa, or we also are licensed in Hawaii and soon to be licensed in Colorado. You can reach us at 515-635-1805 or info@realconnectionscounseling.com. So–
Rick Elgersma:
And then, of course, the link will be there, but it's realconnectionscounseling.com, like she said, but if you wanna go specifically to the retreats, it's realconnectionscounseling.com/couples-retreats, and you'll have all the information you need. We really would love for couples to get there. And we think, well, of course, maybe we're a little biased, but we think this is gonna be the up-and-comer of the way intensives should be done. We hope. And I think it's gonna be pretty special, and the environment is gonna be unreal, Breckenridge, Colorado. It's hard to beat that. It's beautiful.
Monique Elgersma:
And then we're hoping to have more offerings for next year as well. So, the nice thing about that is, if you kinda bookmark us or whatever, you can check back. We'll be putting some new retreat options for next year. So, we'd love to have people join us.
Jennifer Agee:
Wonderful. And check the link below because Monique and Rick were kind enough to offer a discount to our listeners. So, if you book before, I think, June of 2024, there will be a discount link that is below you can check out. If you'd like to connect more with me or the podcast, counselingcommunity.com. You can reach out to me there. And I hope you all get out there and live your best dang life.