If you are lucky, you get one class in grad school that focuses on sexual health and how to help clients navigate the various topics around sexual health. Therapists talk about sex without clients all the time and many feel unprepared. In this episode, Sarah Watson, the founder of Simple Sex Education, shares her experience in working with clients and how therapists can feel more comfortable and competent in this area.
Sarah Watson is a licensed professional counselor, AASECT certified sex therapist, and sexuality educator. Sarah has a therapy practice located in Michigan, where she works with individuals and couples struggling with relationship and sexual health issues. Sarah provides online workshops, retreats, courses, coaching and consultation about sexual health.
Sarah is very passionate about providing a safe and caring environment to discuss and process sexual and mental health issues. Sarah spends her “down” time with her family, listening to podcasts, reading, and enjoying her family farm in northern Michigan where they have two miniature donkeys named Burrito and Taco!
OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:
If you are lucky, you get one class in grad school that focuses on sexual health and how to help clients navigate the various topics around sexual health. Therapists talk about sex without clients all the time and many feel unprepared. In this episode, Sarah Watson, the founder of Simple Sex Education, shares her experience in working with clients and how therapists can feel more comfortable and competent in this area.
Sarah Watson is a licensed professional counselor, AASECT certified sex therapist, and sexuality educator. Sarah has a therapy practice located in Michigan, where she works with individuals and couples struggling with relationship and sexual health issues. Sarah provides online workshops, retreats, courses, coaching and consultation about sexual health.
Sarah is very passionate about providing a safe and caring environment to discuss and process sexual and mental health issues. Sarah spends her “down” time with her family, listening to podcasts, reading, and enjoying her family farm in northern Michigan where they have two miniature donkeys named Burrito and Taco!
OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:
Jennifer Agee:
Hello. Hello. And welcome to Sh*t You Wish You Learned in Grad School. I'm your host, Jennifer Agee, licensed clinical professional counselor. And with me today is Sarah Watson. Y'all are gonna really be interested in this topic today. Sarah is a licensed mental health counselor, an AASECT certified sex therapist, a sexuality educator.
She has a therapy practice in Michigan where she works with individuals and couples struggling with relationships and sexual health. In addition to her private practice, Sarah is also the founder of Simple Sex Education. She provides online workshops, retreats, courses, coaching, and consultation about sexual health. Holy moly. You do some really cool stuff. I'm glad to have you on.
Sarah Watson:
Oh, thanks for having me. Happy to be here.
Jennifer Agee:
So, what got you interested in this? This is not one of those areas in grad school that they tell you is even a, you know, something to really consider.
Sarah Watson:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. At least in my graduate program, I had no idea that sex therapy even existed. So, it's a very long story. But my background, so I'm gonna try to make it short for you and the listeners, but my background is actually in art therapy. So, that was my specialization in grad school.
And I was really excited about it. And then I think I was a third of the way through the program and realized, through my cohort and the people that were running the program, that I was gonna have to create my own job.
Right? So, air quote that out. Right? And I was like, oh my gosh, what does that mean? And it's not a billable service. So, with that, I was like, okay. I can, you know, I'm gonna figure it out. I was really, really determined to figure it out and ended up actually finding an art therapy job, once I had my full licensure, and then I got fired. Yeah. I worked for, it was just an interesting time.
I will say that. I had a very good friend of mine who was also let go at the same time. And, I was talking to a girlfriend, one of my best girlfriends, and she was like her—I knew her mom was a therapist, a social worker—and I was like, oh, do you think your mom knows anybody? And she's like, oh, well, I'll ask her, and then we talked again. And she's like, mom wants you to come over.
And I was like, oh, okay. Like, she's like, she wants to have lunch with you and talk about your future. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, okay. So, I came to find out that day at lunch that my best friend's mom had started the sexual health program at the University of Michigan. And I really was interested in working with couples. And so, we had a really long talk about if you're gonna work with couples, you need to know about sex.
And I was like, okay. Like and then we had a, again, very long conversation, and she kinda just drove me to the program and said, this is what you should do, and this is how you're gonna do it, and this is how much money you can make, and this is how it's gonna be great because you're gonna start a fam–, like and she just was like, this is your plan. And I was like, okay, Sally. Like, this is what I'm doing. So, it was really, I kinda like to boil it down that I just asked for help.
You know, like, trying to figure out, like, after you get fired, what do you do? I asked for help and then really had a drive to work with couples. Yeah.
Jennifer Agee:
Life is funny that way. Right? It kinda–
Sarah Watson:
Sure is.
Jennifer Agee:
You kinda go in all these windy roads, and then you land somewhere, and you're like, this is awesome. How exactly did I get here again? But–
Sarah Watson:
Yes.
Jennifer Agee:
But you, when I became a therapist—I've been a therapist since 1999—one of the things that shocked me the most was how much I talked about sex.
Sarah Watson:
Yeah.
Jennifer Agee:
I mean, because it was, like, one class in grad school for me. You know? And so, it wasn't like, hey, you guys are gonna be talking about this a lot, so let's get used to all the things and all the words and all the deviations, and all the, you know, whatever. Like, I would come home, and I'd be like, I swear to you, my husband, I talk about sex all day long. Like, it's some version of it, whether it's an individual or a couple.
Sarah Watson:
Mhmm.
Jennifer Agee:
It's so much a part of just human health–
Sarah Watson:
A hundred percent.
Jennifer Agee:
That it does come into a lot of conversations.
Sarah Watson:
Right. And if it doesn't with your clients, you're missing a piece. Like, this is a huge piece. In grad school, we had, just human development. We didn't have a sexuality class. So, I really missed it, and I learned a lot and continue to learn a lot. I'm always reading and figuring that out. But, yeah. It definitely comes up. I remember, like, fresh out of grad school, clients coming to talk to me about what they were experiencing and what they enjoyed and being like, okay. Take a breath.
Stay with the client. What are they thinking? What are they doing? Like, what's happening? And trying to stay present in that room even though I didn't have all of the information. And, that was also a really driving force to be like, okay, this is amazing and important, and it applies to every part of our life.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. You know, you're saying, like, even if I didn't have all the information, I think therapists have the most interesting search histories probably of any person on the planet. Right?
Sarah Watson:
Yeah. Yeah. I always say that, like, no one judge my search history, especially for my job.
Jennifer Agee:
I say that all the time too. I'm like, dear children, when I die, if you look on my phone, just know it wasn't me.
Sarah Watson:
Just know.
Jennifer Agee:
So insane, I tell you.
Sarah Watson:
Yeah. I say that often. I'm like, you should see my search history because there'll be something that comes up and I'm like, okay, what does that mean? Or what's a resource for that? And, like, Hello, Google. Right? So–
Jennifer Agee:
Incognito mode, baby.
Sarah Watson:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just don't do it anymore. Right? Like, I'm like, everyone knows what I do, so I'm full fledged. Google can see whatever they want. So–
Jennifer Agee:
Oh, no. There's still a few things I will definitely go incognito mode for.
Sarah Watson:
Hey, you have to have a boundaries, right?
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. I don't need any pop up ads about certain stuff showing up in my, because it will.
Sarah Watson:
Fair enough. It sure does. Sure does. That's true. That's true. Mhmm.
Jennifer Agee:
So, I know as a sex educator too, sexual health is really important to you. What do you wish therapists knew or understood about sexual health and about talking to their clients about sexual health?
Sarah Watson:
First and foremost, you need to know about yourself as a sexual being. You have to do that work. I find, and unless you grew up outside of the United States, you didn't get great sex education.
Jennifer Agee:
Right.
Sarah Watson:
I have been talking about this for a very long time, and I have only had I think 3 people raise their hand when I've been, whether it's a client or speaking, raise their hand and say, yeah, I had great sex education. And those people happen to have physicians or a therapist as their parent or trusted adult. So, we don't have great sex ed here. We are very scared of sex education. So, unless you are doing the reading and doing the research, you need to make sure that you are prepared not to show any bias, right, when these topics come up and to have the medically accurate information. Because telling a client just like have a drink or have a THC gummy to relax and have sex is not a the solution.
Jennifer Agee:
No.
Sarah Watson:
Right? But that comes from physicians too. I've heard it about from other therapists, and I've heard it from physicians telling that to their clients or to their patients when they're we're going in for gynecological exam or fertility issues. So, you have to deal with your own stuff first, your thoughts, your beliefs, and your education.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. Where do you recommend that people start that journey? So, let's say somebody is listening and they're like, okay, I'm new to the field or this is uncomfortable territory for me. Where do you recommend people start?
Sarah Watson:
I love that. So, the first thing, you know, I think– I am highly obsessed with another sex educator and therapist Emily Nagoski. She has wrote the book, Come As You Are. It is so good. It is what we, I think right now in our field, there hasn't been any– Nothing else has come out that's been kinda like this is. It captures everything. Right? It captures the science behind your brain.
It captures your anatomy, orgasm, relationship, all in this beautiful book that's really, I find very easy to read. So, first and foremost, I would start with that. And then, looking at other resources that are trusted. So, are they written by sex educators? Not just someone who thinks that they know what they're doing. Is it based in science? That's really important because there's a lot of information about sexuality out there that is not based in science, and it can cause huge harm. I also do consulting with that. And I know a lot of my other sex educator friends do as well.
So, if you're like, hey, where do I go? I have lists of I mean, you can see my books behind me. Like, that's all sex, that's all sexual health. Right?
Like, that's all sexual health. So, there's a lot of resources there, but to do your due diligence. And then consult with another sex therapist. If you're like, hey, what should I do? We're really easy to find. We're not easy to get hold of all of the time. Sometimes it takes us a minute to get back to you. But, I happily will send out resources.
Hey. Read this book. Read this book. Listen to this podcast because the information is everywhere. You just gotta do your due diligence on what you're taking in.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. And I wanna plug Sarah here too. She actually does have, if you're on her email list, she does send out good information. And so, I will link that below for anyone who's interested, but becoming comfortable with these conversations is important. And I don't wanna skip over the doing your own work part because a lot of the therapists that are younger in the field now, too, also grew up around purity culture. And so, there's a lot of an undoing that has to be done in order to even be comfortable or nonjudgmental when you sit with clients around sex. So, have you noticed that as well?
Sarah Watson:
Yes and no. I mean, I grew up in a very conservative household. So, I knew that as, just that was my life. Purity culture, and then I went to a Christian, like, a fundamental, fundamentalist Christian school and then a Catholic school. So, I had some really interesting experiences. And, so within myself, I was like, oh my gosh, someone just said penis. And I'm like, now I say it all of the time. And I–
Jennifer Agee:
Right.
Sarah Watson:
I carry lubrication in my bag for all of my friends or whoever I run into. But yeah. I think it's the purity culture. It's undoing, deconstructing, really looking at where do your beliefs come from. Is that because that's just the house you grew up in and that's what you believe? But do you actually believe that?
Right? Where did the information come from? How did it get input into your brain? Like, where is that coming from? And then also, like, what were you exposed to as a kid? What were you watching? What were you listening to? Were you getting information on the back of the bus?
Jennifer Agee:
Oh, for sure. I mean, older people, siblings… Come on now. That's where all the best information came from.
Sarah Watson:
Yeah. Or your older cousin. Right? Like–
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. Sleepovers with older cousins. For sure.
Sarah Watson:
Sure. Right. And okay. So, then let's say, then where did they get their information? Right. So, if you can do that, like, oh, oh, I actually don't know where all of this came from, and I need to figure out what do I believe, and what is true, and what is medically accurate, and then move forward.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah.
Sarah Watson:
Right? Because I guarantee something's gonna come up that you're like, oh, that's actually not true. Right?
Jennifer Agee:
For sure. Well, I think that's true with a lot of things. Oh. When you start, you look at it with your adult eyes, and you kind of, like, wash off what anyone has told you and try an take an honest look at an issue or a topic, a lot of times we come to different conclusions.
Sarah Watson:
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. You have to continue to do the work, I think, no matter what. Right?
Jennifer Agee:
Absolutely. And I think, I don't know. I enjoy that. I'm a lifelong learner, so I like doing that. And what I found is, as I evolve and grow and learn more things and attend trainings and stuff like that, I've taken the people around me in my life with me on that journey, you know, because you can't help but talk about things you get excited about. You know? So, everybody kinda starts getting the same information, so you evolve together. How is your family doing? Because you grew up in a more conservative home, like, how are they doing with, like, my daughter does what? How am I supposed to tell my Sunday school friends, you know?
Sarah Watson:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, my parents' parents are all gone now. My grandmother was the last one who knew I was doing sex therapy, but then she passed away when right after I finished my training. So, unfortunately, she doesn't have that. But even before when I was doing art therapy, my grandparents were like, what does that even mean, Sarah? Like–
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. And how is this a job?
Sarah Watson:
Yeah. They're always like, are you making money? Like, what is happening? So, explaining that. But my, I would say, my dad has– I post on Instagram a lot for the business, and he's like, I just, I'm not gonna follow that one, Sarah. And he's like, I just don't do that. And I was like, okay. Like, no big deal. Not a problem. And so, he has his own boundaries with that, which is great, and I appreciate that.
Everyone else is like, this is great. Like, they want the information. Sometimes, it can be a little much. I have a daughter who's 6 and a half and a nephew who's at the same age and my niece is 8. And right away, we were talking about, like, using the correct names for body parts and things like that. And I think it took my sister a hot second to be like, oh, okay.
Alright. Like, we're gonna call it the vulva. Right? We're not just calling it your vagina. You have more than one hole. Like, let's be correct about things, and she does the same thing too. So, it took a second, but, no, everyone's on board now. So, which is great.
Jennifer Agee:
What do you think prompts most people to reach out to you?
Sarah Watson:
Oh, it can be a load of things. Right? So, couples, it tends to be they're in a crisis. I think it was pretty typical for most couples' therapists. Like, something has happened, whether it's infidelity, whether it's desire discrepancy, which is one partner has a higher curiosity and desire for more sexual touch than the other, pain with sex. I see a lot of people with pain, and that's really, that's a tough one.
Jennifer Agee:
That is painful for me as a therapist to sit in a space with someone who genuinely wants good sexual intimacy with their partner, and their body, it is so painful for them. And that's a really hard thing to see people struggle with. I know there's so much body betrayal that people feel when that's one of their issues.
Sarah Watson:
It is. It's really hard to see. What's lovely is I've worked with plenty that can get through that. And what's really, really fun is when we've been working together whether—and they go to pelvic floor PT, because if they're not coming if they're not referred from the pelvic floor PT to me, I refer to them—and when they come back and they're doing their PT and they're doing what we talk about and they're having meaningful conversation with their partner and they're like, we did it! And they come into session, and they're just so excited. And that makes me tear up every time. I just get so excited for my clients when that happens. And that is a driving force of my work of like, hey, we can do this. Like, I can help you get there. You obviously have to do the work, but it's totally possible. And sometimes it takes a long time, and sometimes it doesn't. So, it's pretty amazing.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. I don't think I ever thought I'd be high-fiving people about having sex, but it's happened many, many times when they come in.
Sarah Watson:
Yes. It's the best. Yes. Yeah. And I'm like, okay. And was it pleasurable? And did you talk about it? Did you debrief afterwards? And they're like, no, but we're gonna do that. And it's really fun. And once people are comfortable with you talking about it, ah, so much change can happen really quickly, which is amazing.
Jennifer Agee:
What is some of the advice that you have when people have mismatched desire or a sexual want?
Sarah Watson:
Mhmm. Yeah. First, who's where? Right? Like, in the dichotomy of the relationship, what person is desiring more? What is that about? And it's just first and foremost, it's to talk about it. Right? I find that most couples do not talk about it. I have had people come into my office and say, oh, we've never talked about sex, but we know it's a problem. So, we're gonna talk to you about it instead of talking to each other about it.
So, first is how do we get the language around it? Where does that come from? What's the level of stress in the household? How often is one partner out of the house? Are they taking care of themselves? So, I'm not looking at the actual moment of sex. We're looking at the whole picture. Because everything else impacts that. So, if you're, let's say, you're a mom of, you know, kids that are in elementary school, which I am, and I will say there's a lot of stuff that goes on with that. Let alone if you have a job and a dog and a house and other responsibilities, maybe an aging parent, maybe you wanna volunteer… all of these stressors impact your ability to create space to even have the curiosity about sex. And our brain works, I'm sorry.
I should say women's brains work a little bit different than the heteronormative male. Right? Like, it's going to be different. And so, it's really talking about this is when I think about it; this is when I don't. This is what makes me feel good. Is the sex you have been having even pleasurable? Right? Because that can absolutely– Like, if it is hurting or they want to do something that doesn't feel good and you've never said that, and they're like, oh, it feels great for them, and it really doesn't, your body is gonna be like, uh-uh. No thanks. And your mind is going to be on that same train as well. So, first and foremost is to talk about it.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. Being honest about your experience.
Sarah Watson:
Correct? Right.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. Your experience with your partner in the moment, what's happening in your mind, what's happening in your body so that you can really get a good picture of what's going on.
Sarah Watson:
Absolutely.
Jennifer Agee:
I also always tell people, let's go to the doctor and just get our blood work done. You know, let's check where our hormones are. Let's make sure the body is cooperating fully for us because I think people skip over that step. And I've had a several times where people have come back and their hormones are totally off.
Sarah Watson:
Yeah.
Jennifer Agee:
And it's like, well, no wonder. I mean, your body is designed to work together, and if something is off, it's gonna create a ripple effect in your system, you know?
Sarah Watson:
Right. Right. I would say, generally, with women, there's not a ton of information unless you are in menopause, and you're done. Like, right? Because menopause is just, one day, your period is done. So, we have perimenopause that can last for 10 years.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. I'm in that phase right now, and it's the– I mean, my TikTok is, like, half perimenopause, OBGYNs talking about stuff. Because I'm like nobody told us. 50% of the entire population is gonna go through this thing, and literally, we didn't get a single hour in grad school on something that affects us so profoundly. It affects our mental health, our sexual health. It affects everything, and nobody said jack shit about it. Are you kidding me? Or jack squat about it.
Sarah Watson:
I was, like, can we swear? Because I think it is shit that no one talks about it.
Jennifer Agee:
It is. It is. I mean, it's in the podcast title. But Yeah.
Sarah Watson:
Fair enough. Fair enough.
Jennifer Agee:
But I'm like, wait a minute. How come nobody is telling people that? And I've had grad students come in, and they’re saying, like, okay. I'm seeing this woman. She's in her forties, and these things are happening. And I'm like, she's probably in perimenopause. Her anxiety just didn't spike overnight. She didn't start getting insomnia overnight.
She doesn't need more drugs. She might need HRT. She might need to talk, you know, she needs to talk to somebody about this.
Sarah Watson:
Yes.
Jennifer Agee:
You know?
Sarah Watson:
Yes. Absolutely. And it's deciphering, right, whether that is, are you actually in perimenopause, or is your life overwhelming and you're losing your shit?
Jennifer Agee:
Exactly. But we need to be able to know how [CROSSTALK]. You gotta know how to have the conversation. And if you're not given the information, just like you said, bad sex ed. Like, if you're never given the information of how to even have this conversation or that it's a conversation to have until you go through it yourself, if you're female-identified, like, you don't know, and then you're like, wait just a minute. What's happening here?
Sarah Watson:
Exactly. Yeah. So, what's great is for right now, I think, and even in the last couple of years, is there's so much money and information being, and science dumped into perimenopause and menopause, which is great. So, hopefully, we will continue to get new innovations and understanding of what's happening. But yeah. Who talked about it? No one. I know my, I'm sure my mother suffered in silence.
My aunt, she's a little louder about her hot flashes and, like, gets… but how many generations of women just suffered thinking like, okay. This is it. And I've had people come in, there like, oh, my wife is doing this or my partner is doing this, and yeah. I go, yeah.
Okay. Let's talk about that. How does that impact you? Right? And how do we work with this and what's going on?
Jennifer Agee:
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think just also understanding developmentally, neurodevelopmentally where people are at different life stages and how that impacts their sex drive and their interest level. And, you know, I would have young couples come in. And, again, now we're taught, we know the words mental load where back when I was starting, nobody had the words mental load, but you just knew what it was. You know? And they're like, I don't get why she's not wanting to jump my balls like she did when we were dating. And I'm like, you've got 2 kids. She's working full-time. And what are you doing around the house? Like, I mean, so–
Sarah Watson:
Pick up your socks. Right?
Jennifer Agee:
Right. Exactly, man. But, like, your desire would be lower too if you were taking care of everyone else and putting yourself last.
Sarah Watson:
Right. Right. And then that's, so I think that's my favorite point of, like, hey, let's look at the balance or lack of balance within a household, especially a heteronormative household. Like, what are you doing? Right? How are you pouring into the relationship and what you're doing for each other? I don't know if you saw it a couple weeks ago. There was a TikTok that was, it was a guy, and I think he was in his car. He might I think, probably in his forties, and he was just like, I don't help my wife with cooking.
I don't help my wife with the kids. I don't help with…, and he went on and on. He's like, I just do those things because I’m a partner. And that we don't help each other. I don't help babysit. I don't babysit my children. I take care of my children. And so, it's shifting that.
Like, if you grew up in a very traditional household of dad, you know, a heteronormative household where dad works and mom takes care of everything else, that wasn't modeled for you. And now we're all like, okay. Get it together. You're gonna be an active participant. And so, that's a mental shift for sure.
Jennifer Agee:
Oh, yeah. And that goes into the statistics that show a lot of women choose not to get married, that their, their physical health, that they actually die earlier when they have partners than they do if they're single because of the amount of taking care of someone else and then them deprioritizing their needs is what they attributed that to. So, I think it's good that we're having these conversations, and I think more men are being open to having these conversations as well. So, I think we're moving in the right direction here.
Sarah Watson:
Mhmm.
Jennifer Agee:
But I think just recognizing that at different life stages, your capacity, especially because so much of what happens sexually for women is in the brain. You know, it's, yeah, it's we gotta get that part right before our body's like, okay. We can turn on now. You know? That if we kind of really look at that, it can help us have also compassion for ourselves for what we may be or may not be feeling like we wanna do at any given point in time.
Sarah Watson:
Exactly. Yeah. Like and I think it's, so there's that, there's a term Emily talks about; it’s arousal non-concordance. Right? Where your brain can be, like, okay. Like, maybe during the day, like, okay, I'm feeling a little spicy. Like, I can't, you know, maybe I wanna do something later, but then something happens and you're like, oh, nope. Done.
Stressed out. Done. Super tired. Can't do it. And so, explaining that to your partner, like, hey, I was thinking about this earlier, but now I'm exhausted and I don't have capacity. And that's not arousal non-concordance. Arousal non-concordance, right, is you have the idea in your head, like, you're turned on, you're ready to go, but your body doesn't match or vice versa.
So, maybe your body is feeling a lot of things, like, you're a feeling tingly and excited and overwhelmed, but your brain is like, no way. Can't think about it. I've got the grocery list. I've got… What do I need to do this week for our kids? The dog needs food. You know, you gotta go get meds for somebody, and your body and brain don't match up. And that's absolutely normal. And you gotta talk about it. Just talk about it.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. So, do you have couples keep track so that they can start to see, like, when they are experiencing arousal, and then what's happening? Like, do you have them track that?
Sarah Watson:
Yes. So, I usually, that's more of like a pro-, like, I ask them to keep, like, a little note on their phone or a little journal in their bag to be like, okay, even if you're feeling just a tiny glimpse of something and it just flutters by, I want you to try to, okay. Where were you? What time of day was it? What was going on? Let's just notice what's happening around us and write it down.
Jennifer Agee:
Mhmm.
Sarah Watson:
Because then we can, like, okay. We know that that's helpful for you. Or maybe it's like, okay. I had a couple yesterday. They were just like, we had so much fun with our friends. We were relaxed. It was the weekend.
And then we came home. On the way home, one of them was like, hey, I'm feeling a little spicy, feeling horny. And that was all it took. That was all it took.
Jennifer Agee:
The expectation of it.
Sarah Watson:
Right. Like, hey, let's go. Let's have fun. Let's go home and connect. Right? Having fun is a huge piece of this as well. Right?
Jennifer Agee:
Oh, yeah. Being playful.
Sarah Watson:
Yeah. Oh, gosh. Because it's not… I mean, yes. It's serious, but not really. Right? Like, have fun. Be silly with it. You know, sex is a funny and weird and sounds happen and it's all normal. Right? But if you can infuse that into it and part of your relationship, you're on the right track. But, yeah, keeping track of when you are aroused, absolutely helpful. But then you're gonna share that with your partner.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. It goes back to communication. The nuts and bolts of our job, communication.
Sarah Watson:
Exactly. Exactly. For sure.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. What do you wish more people, more therapists, understood about sexual health so that they could really bring that into the room with their clients?
Sarah Watson:
Mhmm. First and foremost is that we're all born sexual beings.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah.
Sarah Watson:
It doesn't just arrive at puberty. Like, you're a sexual being beforehand. That doesn't mean we need to, we should not be sexualizing our children in any capacity. But everyone is born with what feels good. Right? Like, it feels good. Right? Like, if you see your, if you find a kid, like, just self-pleasuring, you're like, oh my gosh. My kid is doing this at 5. Yeah. Because it feels good.
Jennifer Agee:
I mean, you take a baby's diaper off, where does their hand go anyway?
Sarah Watson:
Right. Yeah. And there's actually, I saw in in training, there's a video of a fetus self-pleasuring in the womb.
Jennifer Agee:
Uh-huh.
Sarah Watson:
It's the coolest. I'm like, that's awesome. Right? Like, that's amazing. So, that we're all born sexual beings. This is a part of you, even if you've squashed it away. And how do we bring it back to the surface? Because it's showing up whether you've identified it or not. And so, if we can integrate that into all of our education, right, especially in grad school, for the love of God, I wish we talked about it because we didn't. And how does that, you know, if you're not having this connection, what does that mean in your relationship or just to yourself? Because self-pleasure is really important as well. And that doesn't need to be this taboo subject.
Jennifer Agee:
Oh, my word. I'll tell you those. That is one of those, that is one of those topics that people have so much shame about, it's not even funny. Like, even just bringing that up into the room when you're working with couples, they noticeably can get very uncomfortable sometimes.
Sarah Watson:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I have clients—and I'm still all virtual right now— and I have clients that are visibly, like, they were visibly uncomfortable. And I'll be like, hey. We've been talking about this for a year.
Like, and I kinda get playful with it. I'm like, hey. It's your, let's now talk about your favorite subject. How's sex going, or how's pleasure going? And, obviously, only once I have rapport, good rapport, with the client. But, that it's just, let's bring it up. Like, it's gonna be uncomfortable for them. It's probably gonna be uncomfortable for you, and that's okay. That's okay. Right?
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. It's okay. But I don't think it is okay to ignore the fact that you do have someone where their sexual health is a huge component of just overall health. And so, we can't ignore it either. I don't think we're doing our clients any great service by not bringing it up because they don't bring it up. It's okay if we bring it into the room, and if they say, you know, they're like, no.
That part's all good. Don't need to talk about that. You're like, okay. Cool. That's fine. Like, we take our clients' lead. That's absolutely fine, but I think opening the door for letting them know that it's okay to bring that part of themselves into the room is what is our responsibility.
Sarah Watson:
A 100%. I would say that starts with intake. Right? What's your intake like, what's your personal history or whatever you call it in your practice? Like, have questions. Obviously, mine is very geared towards relationships and sexual health, but if you're not, if you're more of a generalist, like, the question on your intake should be, like, you know, you could do a rating scale. It could be how often are you sleeping with someone? Like, you could make what… tell me about your sex life. Okay. Cool. Tell me about your self-pleasure.
Jennifer Agee:
I mean, if someone's coming to you, they know they're gonna get those questions.
Sarah Watson:
Oh, for sure.
Jennifer Agee:
If you’re just coming for anxiety and depression, you're not expecting someone to come in and talk like that.
Sarah Watson:
Right. No. Yeah. But if you have it on your intake, right? If you have it on your paperwork… And, you know, hey, listen. I have people that leave stuff blank all the time. I'm like, hey, you left this blank. Let's talk about it. And that's just the way you approach that.
But that's okay. Right? Like, they know that you're opening the door to that subject. Like, we're not gonna leave anything to the side.
Jennifer Agee:
Yeah. Absolutely.
Sarah Watson:
So, intake.
Jennifer Agee:
All of them is welcome in your space.
Sarah Watson:
Correct. Right.
Jennifer Agee:
And I think whether you specialize in this or you just, it comes into your office occasionally, you know, where you intentionally focus on it, making sure your clients always know all of them is welcome in your space is one thing that we can provide for our clients.
Sarah Watson:
Absolutely.
Jennifer Agee:
Thank you so much for this conversation today. I think it's a good one, and I really hope it's the beginning. If you're not comfortable with this topic, or even listening to this, you're like, eww, I hope that this is a prompter for you. Go read that book. Like, look at the, the newsletters that come out with the information that Sarah's providing. But start to get comfortable because if you think you're gonna avoid this in your career, you're not, my friend. You absolutely are not. Sarah, how can people get in touch with you?
Sarah Watson:
So, you can reach me at simplesexeducation.com. And as I mentioned before, I post on Instagram pretty frequently, and it's SWSX therapy. Meta's a little strange about spelling out sex. So, excuse the title, but that's where you can reach me and… or send me an email. I'm happy to help or consult and work with you on what you're struggling with with your clients.
Jennifer Agee:
Okay. Thank you again for being on. And for all the listeners out there, I hope you get out there and live your best dang life. Have a great day.