The Leadership Shift Entrepreneurs Regret Missing—Lead with Legacy Now with Tim Johnson

Most digital agency owners wait too long to make the leadership shift that actually sustains scale. They keep grinding in fulfillment mode, thinking more output will equal more growth—until their systems start to crack, their team becomes dependent, and their energy flatlines. In this episode, I’m joined by Tim Johnson—a coach, broadcaster, and Olympic leader—who shares a bold challenge to high-achieving entrepreneurs: start leading for legacy before you’re forced to.

This conversation cuts to the core of what most seven-figure agency owners eventually realize: scaling your business requires a different mindset than building it. Tim unpacks the leadership shift entrepreneurs regret missing—moving from scoreboard-based identity to purpose-driven influence—and why encouragement, surrender, and free-leading are essential if you want to scale beyond yourself. We talk about how to build sustainable leadership habits now, how to anchor your agency’s growth in more than revenue, and what it means to lead with legacy in your third act.

If you're scaling a team, stepping into your CEO role, or building a business that will outlive you—this episode is essential listening.

Books Mentioned

• Leaders Who Last by Dave Kraft
• Spiritual Depression: Its Causes and Cure by Martyn Lloyd-Jones
• Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
• Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
• October 1964 by David Halberstam

Connect with Tim Johnson
To connect with Tim Johnson, learn more about his coaching, or explore how to lead with encouragement and purpose in your third act, visit TJKeepOn.com.

I want to invite you to check out the Committed Mastermind, a community I help lead along with world-class leaders like JC and Karen Hite, Vinnie Fisher, and Jonathan Mast, plus incredible mentors like Dr. Gary Chapman, author of The 5 Love Languages, and many others.

This is for entrepreneurs who want to build a thriving business without sacrificing their faith, their family, or their health.

Check out the Committed Mastermind at https://committedmastermind.com/

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Transcript

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Wrestling, Pivotal Moments, and the “I’m Pinned” Revelation

Dr. William Attaway 1:21

I'm so excited today to have Tim Johnson on the podcast . Tim is a speaker , an emcee and a personal coach , aiming to help individuals navigate leadership in their later years with wisdom , strength and passion . Tim's transformational purpose statement is to inspire leaders by encouraging and coaching them with the love and wisdom of Christ . Encouraging and coaching them with the love and wisdom of Christ . Over 45 years , Tim has broadcasted over 500 college wrestling meets and has been inducted into multiple halls of fame . Tim has emceed numerous Pinnacle Forum national conferences , bringing together a diverse group of entrepreneurs , keeping things moving with good humor and finishing on time . Tim has coached countless high-capacity , highly effective leaders , one-on-one , in small groups and through chairing nonprofit boards , encouraging them to deepen their faith and enlarge their perspective in ways that made them even better leaders in the areas of staff , funding and board work . Tim , I'm so glad you're here . Thanks for being on the show .

Tim Johnson 2:31

Well , thank you for having me , william . It's just a pleasure and an honor to be with you , and I just thank you for your focus on leadership and your excellence .

Intro / Outro 2:44

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership , the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive . Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach , dr William Attaway .

Dr. William Attaway 3:01

I'd love to start today with you sharing some of your story with our listeners , particularly around your journey and your development as a leader .

Tim Johnson 3:12

How did you get started ? Well , this may sound kind of strange , but let's start . Go back with me to 1975 and 76 . I'm a senior at Coe College . It's a Division III college in Cedar Rapids , iowa . I'm a wrestler and we'll talk about wrestling probably quite a bit on this podcast . It's been a big part of my life . But in 1976 , it was the Olympics in Montreal and in wrestling there was a move called the Full Nelson that most people think is illegal . But that year they made it legal . It was an Olympic year . They wanted to promote the Olympics and that was that was really important to me because I was a pinner . By necessity I had to get my matches done because I had a problem with getting in the best shape I could because of some physical limitations that we'll probably touch on . But anyway , we're at the co-gym , at the Kohawk Invitational . I think it was December of 75 .

Tim Johnson 4:13

And my first round opponent was a wrestler from Northwest Missouri State . I go out there . My mom , my sister , my summer boss are in the stands . My coach is in the corner . My best friend and also an All-American wrestler is up against . He's a couple of weights heavier than me . He's up against the wall over by my mat . So I go out there and I take the guy down and I put him on his back and this is going good . Then he gets back to his base . So I'm ahead like five to nothing and then I see it , his head drops . So I'm ahead like five to nothing and then I see it , his head drops and I sink that full Nelson and I drive that full Nelson in and I drive it over and I go oh , this is going to be great , I'm going to get it over with first round of the tournament . This is a great way to start .

Tim Johnson 4:59

And so there was about less than a minute left in this first period . I'm driving it and with about 20 seconds left I'm going man , he's pinned , he's pinned . I'm just kind of driving some more . And then about I don't know 15 seconds left , I go to the official . I go he's pinned and the official goes no , no , like this . I said he's pinned and all of a sudden the whole gym heard it . I've never heard it before , I've never heard it since . All of a sudden , before the end , the whole gym heard I'm pinned , I'm pinned . And I mean my buddy did a backflip . My coach started just laughing . They didn't call the pin . I'm ahead 8 nothing . After the first period and , true to my form , I crawled off the match . After the third period I won eight to seven . Okay , wow , and I used to tell that story all the time .

Tim Johnson 5:56

William , like a good pastor friend of mine , says about theological things , and besides that it's true . I used to tell it just because it's true . And yet that those words by him have impacted me more than any other words as life has gone on . He said I'm pinned . Now that's the

Childhood Trauma and the Formation of Resilience

Tim Johnson 6:21

last thing you want to say as a wrestler . Yeah , but in my life I've been pinned several times and they've been the most incredible things that have happened to me .

Tim Johnson 6:31

I was pinned early on in life . I um , I um from a little farm town called morning sun Iowa beautiful name , great upbringing , 900 people counting the cows . I lived out in the country and we had a tremendous wrestling tradition a little later on . But we got on the summer of 1960 , a brand new riding lawnmower . Now , that was quite a deal , novelty back then in the summer of 60 . I was not quite seven years old and unwise kid tennis shoes on dew on the ground and I ran up behind it to scare the person on this that was driving just as yet and I slipped underneath it and it sliced my leg off bone artery nerve , except for a piece of . And we had a 17 year old eagle scout working for us in the farm and he was in the shed . He ran , he had the presence of mind to look at my other foot with a shoestring , put a tourniquet on , put it on right .

Tim Johnson 7:33

We got in the car and my dad flooded the car . My mom came out from the house , we got in the truck , went to a small Burlington Iowa hospital . I remember wanting to kind of go to sleep . Everything , everything had been cut . I was going into shock . The 17 year old made me . It was trying to make me mad and keep me awake . All the way down I got on the gurney of the emergency room and a doctor in a tweed coat and I remember this came into the end . He goes let's try to save it . And that was the start . I was in the hospital for six weeks .

Tim Johnson 8:10

They didn't know whether it was going to be a stiff leg or not and then I had eight operations in eight years and basically I was on crutches half a year for seven of those eight wheelchair another time and because of doctors and nurses telling me how brave I was , a mom that was always by my side and a coach who became one of the great wrestling coaches in the history of Iowa wrestling . But he wasn't even a wrestling coach till he was my PE teacher . They called it PT back then and he would not let me make excuses . He would tell me what a stud I was , he would encourage me and so I went through grade school , really not knowing I was a cripple because of the support of those people and I was so young and the whole bit .

Tim Johnson 10:19

And then when I was 12 years old or 13 , I was coming back from university hospitals in Iowa City where all of that was done and they'd said , timmy , we know you love baseball and we know that you love wrestling , but I had broken the same leg two years in a row playing Sandlot football . They said you can't play football and I said , oh , I can't tell the coach he was also the football coach , coach Darragh , bob Darragh . Well , you don't not play football or you thought you were dead to him and I had to go back . We play summer baseball in Iowa in high school and I went to the high school baseball game knowing I was going to see Coach Darragh and going to have to tell him I couldn't play football and going to have to tell him I couldn't play football .

Tim Johnson 11:03

And I went up to him and I said coach , and he said yes , stud , I go . Well , that's a good start . But I knew what he was going to call me and I couldn't say it on this broadcast . You could say it back then . But let's just say it was something like sissy , and I didn't know how loud he was going to say it . And he put his hand up and I thought he was going to hit me , smack me . You could do that back then too . We had paddles with holes in them . You know , on the whole bit it was a different day . And he put his hand on my shoulder and he said Timmy , as long as you wrestle , you'll be okay . I mean , I felt like Barney Fife on the Andy Griffith show . I said , yes , sir , coach , yes , sir , you can count on me . You know that's probably sounded ridiculous . And he turned a kid that was could have gone upside down , right side up , and I committed my life to wrestling .

Tim Johnson 11:53

Right then I knew I wanted to be a coach because of a coach , right then at that time . And and then I wrestled . I then lost my mentors . He left me , went to another coach , another mentor left me . And that's how important relationships are , because he knew that I wasn't going to be able to play football . But what I call it is the life-changing power of well-chosen words . I mean he was ready for me and all leaders need we need to be ready to know the words that people need to hear . Well , I started running with the wrong crowd and I chased darkness for 12 years , I mean . And yet part of that darkness was success , because I wanted to be a great coach , but I wanted to be it for me and my fame . And I was pretty good coach and if you went to Mount Vernon High School they'd say , yeah , we had a really good coach , but I left a lot of opportunity on the mat there . I wasn't a Christ follower at the time , I didn't have much direction and I was like I say , I was chasing darkness and personal fame . And then God picked me up out of my circumstances and moved me to Stillwater , oklahoma . Every Olympic sport has a governing body .

Tim Johnson 13:13

Usa Wrestling now in Colorado Springs was in Stillwater , at the National Wrestling Hall of Fame , which is on the campus of Oklahoma State . I was moved down there , the campus of Oklahoma State . I was moved down there , foreign territory . I didn't know anyone . I walked into a church University of the Highest Baptist Church and there was a pastor who was a

From Performance to Purpose: The Shift That Changed Everything

Tim Johnson 13:34

former athlete . Now , I'd grown up in the church but I it must be . You know , I was interested in what a former athlete had to say . God opened my heart and I was going . This is the direction I need to go . Well , I was running this . This is the direction I need to go . Well , I was running , I was the national events director for USA wrestling and I was traveling all over the United States and I went out to New York city to run an event .

Tim Johnson 13:52

I went to my first um Broadway show . Um , it's called dream girls Tremendous , tremendous girl . It was kind of about the , uh , the journey of the , the Supremes , and it was a great musical . This group comes out . I'm sitting there with my buddy . This group comes out and the song was called . They came out and they started singing Fake your Way to the Top . It hit me like a two by four . I said that's who I am . I'm a phony who's trying to make his way to the top . And God transformed my heart right there , put the faith of Christ in me and the journey that started really , I would say spiritual leadership , leadership that is grounded in the word of God . And um , I , um , I , I . My life was changed .

Tim Johnson 14:45

I did have the opportunity then , uh , in 84 , um to uh direct the Olympic games for wrestling in 1984 . Um and um was under one of the great leaders , peter Uberoth . He basically saved the Olympic movement . Um then became the commissioner of the major league baseball and the president of the Major League Baseball and the president of the United States Olympic Committee , but he was a part of an organization called Young Presidents Organization , ypo , and the Olympics were run and saved because nobody else bid for the Olympics , because it was such a financial terrible thing for Montreal . And then we had the boycott of the Russian Olympics . And this was the opportunity and because of leadership , because of the leadership of he and his YPO friends , the Olympic movement was saved .

Tim Johnson 15:37

And then I had the opportunity to leave wrestling and be the CEO of the Metropolitan YMCAs in Wichita , kansas , and I cut my teeth on staff development , fund development , board development and I really , really enjoyed that . And then I went and , but coaches and athletes , was my ? Was my really the thing I was really passionate about ? The thing I was really passionate about and I went to work with the largest publishing company in the world for physical education and sports called Human Kinetics in Champaign , illinois , where I'm at right now . Wow , and I was a director of a coaching education program and at 40 years old , with a five and a two year old , god called me into full time Christian ministry with the Fellowship of Christian Athletes , and I had not thought of being in that full-time Christian ministry one day in my life .

Olympic-Level Leadership and the Weight of Legacy

Tim Johnson 16:29

But as fearful as Lisa and I were , we were more scared of being disobedient to the Lord . And I just retired a year and a half ago after 30 years leading FCA .

Tim Johnson 16:40

And in the meantime I began broadcasting in 1986 for college wrestling and have been doing that for the Big Ten Network and ESPN ever since , and that has allowed me a platform to elevate the things that I think are important . And now I'm kind of pinned again because I'm going Lord , what do you want in my 70s ? Because I've always said that it's only logical that our greatest value to society would be in our 70s . I've always said that that's good , and so you know , usually we have our health , we've got all these mistakes we've made and experience , and now I get a wax on some old man wisdom and I'm still in transition of working out exactly what that is with this is . He put this on my heart a few months ago and that's why I created , uh , the website and have let people know I'm to answer the call with an s , there's an s and there's a , there's an s with apostrophes , uh , with a parentheses around it . At the end of that vision answer the call , god's call , to answer the calls . I'm convicted about answering every call that comes over this phone right now . So that's a little bit of my leadership life .

Tim Johnson 18:16

And when I say I'm pinned , I mean once I surrendered . Once I surrendered my life to God's way , because he's the one that created me is when I began to understand what true success was . A good friend of mine , lloyd Reeb , who's part of Halftime Ministries , wrote a book called From Success to Significance , and he said I should have named it From Success to Sur surrender , but I didn't think it would sell many copies . And yet I would say , if I was to write a book now , it would be something like limping my way to ultimate satisfaction , because when we surrender , submit to authority , we have a much better opportunity of gaining that satisfaction that I think all of us are truly searching for . So there you go .

Dr. William Attaway 19:08

So good . You know , I love your focus right now , particularly on helping people navigate leadership in the later years . Culture has , in large part , created a reality , a perception that once you hit a certain age , well , you're done . You're kind of done . And I love your perspective that you do your best your best decade's going to be your 70s because you have the wisdom , because you have the experience . There's no such thing as a wasted experience . As I'm listening to your story , I'm thinking about this awful accident that you had , but without that , would you be the leader you are now ? There's no such thing as a wasted experience . Even the most horrific things can be used for good . As you are communicating this message and sharing these days with leaders , do you get pushback from people who are like , oh no , I'm done . Or why would you focus on people that are past their prime , so to speak ? Do you get pushback like that ? Or why would you focus on people that are past their prime , so to speak ? Do you get pushback like that ?

Tim Johnson 20:18

Well , what a great question , William , because people don't understand . I do and it's in the weirdest way , they're really upset with me . There are some people that and I have no problem with however anybody wants , but they've said I've waited . Problem with however anybody wants , but they've said I've waited . Now I think , like you alluded to , I think our world and commercial have put in our mind that the ultimate is to go get on the beach , curl your toes in the beach and then find those seashells that you're holding up to God and saying look God , look at the seashell today . And I'm going . No , but I have friends , really good friends . They've wanted to travel the world , they want to do that and they go . What are you doing ? And I don't know . I mean they're mad at me , they wonder why I'm not . Now I enjoy a beach just like anybody else . But you know , it's what I truly believe that if we're going to get our greatest satisfaction , our purpose is to glorify God and enjoy him forever , I mean everybody's . If you're a believer , that's your purpose to glorify God . Our creator , john Piper , once said that's your purpose . To glorify God . Our creator , john Piper , once said God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him . And so I get pushback that is actually quite pointed from some people who I don't know whether it's because they're feeling guilty or they think that I'm being pious or whatever . They just think you're not supposed to have that much energy because I've been told all my life I'm to quit and I'm not valued and you're kind of pushing back on that . The other pushback is the good pushback and that is you're kidding me . You're kidding me . I had not thought of that before , but that's you know . And I was about 20 years ago . I know right where I stand and I was lamenting not accomplishing some of the things that I had a goal for in wrestling . You know , champion , national champion , whatever it was . Now I've never heard the Lord audibly , but I distinctly heard this what are you talking about ? You think it was all about that three quarter inch rubber mat . That was just the beginning . He said every day I hear this every day you open the door , that's your mat . There's championships to win . I went . You got to be kidding me . I can still win championships .

Tim Johnson 22:58

I went out and I've been on a Schwinn Airdyne . You know what those are . It's the best since 1988 . And , uh , I haven't at . At the various places I'm at and I work hard on , I try to stay in shape . That's a big part of of what I believe that I'm supposed to do in every way .

Tim Johnson 23:15

But I went out and got on my airdyne that day and I wrestled a couple of those guys that beat me and I said , god , give me the thought I'm going to pretend I had the body then . I had then , but the mind I have now .

The 5 S’s of Leadership: Surrender as the Unlock

Tim Johnson 23:28

And I mean I wrestled these matches and I was in shape and I had scoring moves . I mean I'd done the 10,000 reps on that one scoring move and therefore I could be strategic late in the match if I was in shape and had a scoring move . And at the end , because of all those things , I could suck it up . And I remember winning against this guy that had beaten me and I said what just happened , and the fifth S on that , that was four S's I threw at you Until I surrendered .

Tim Johnson 23:59

Until I surrendered , I wasn't free to have my identity , not in my performance but in who I was . And you know , in the image of , made in the image of God . And out of the overflow of my surrender came the motivation to do really what it takes . And so when I share with others that the real championships God may have for you , I mean Joshua and Caleb and Moses are my heroes , you know , because they were 80 years old when God brought the real thing he had created them for . And so that pushback I can work with , because I'll end this part , because it's so important . You know I'm an encourager , that's my gift , that's what I want to do .

Tim Johnson 24:48

Some people see it as cheerleading and they discount it . Over the years I've struggled , saying man , are they right ? Is that all I've got to offer ? And I found that that's not a just all , it's almost everything . Just eight months ago I put out a text to 35 people that are in leadership in various ways and I said if you could hire a coach for anything , what would it be ? You know , I got had about seven that never responded to me , twenty eight that responded back . Out of those twenty eight , fifteen had something to do with encouragement . We just want to be encouraged . Two of them almost said the same thing . I just want somebody to coach my heart .

Tim Johnson 25:44

Now , that's not academic enough for some , it's not systems-oriented enough for some ,

Encouragement as a Strategic Leadership Advantage

Tim Johnson 25:50

and we need academics , we need systemized things . But I'm going , I'm telling you what . What people need is encouragement , I mean , and and so I just have found that my lot in life is to encourage people and , to your point , I'm focused on encouraging people to flourish in the third third of their life . But guess when that starts ? That's why I have an audience with 25 and 30 year olds . The more you do right now and think about that , the better you'll be at it then . And I call one of the things that I think is important and that's when I call it free leading . That I think is important and that's when you I call it free leading .

Tim Johnson 26:38

I had a person once tell me Tim , because he was telling me I was going to be the chairman of the board of this YMCA project and I said I was already leading Pinnacle Forum , a CEO's ministry , fca , and I said Rick , and as soon as I said Rick , I realized I was talking on the phone to my biggest donor , so I was going to shut up immediately . But he said , tim , as Christians we need to lead in our communities in something we don't get paid for . Okay , and what I that's really lead . Can you imagine a nonprofit or any organization that has a board that Dr William Attaway has decided he will lead on that board , meaning he's not just going to go every month and see what kind of sandwich he's going to order and then give his advice . He's going to have something that he has found he can lead in . And I would contend that two hours a month of William Attaway's leadership in a nonprofit is better than most board members and most organizational boards .

Tim Johnson 27:44

When you really are committed to leading the way , you have gotten paid for for not doing that . And so that's something I talk to young leaders about is they say yes , I want to sell my company when I'm 60 and then I'm going to give my leadership . I'm going what if you were free leading right now , dabbling in it , just dabbling in it , parallel ? How much better are you going to be when you are freed up with all this time and can give more time to it ? So , in the same way , about flourishing in your third third it's a message for everybody , but right now I have so many people I'm encouraging that are my age I'm 71 . And I don't know what my 70s are going to look like , but I can't wait to find out .

Dr. William Attaway 28:41

You know , you have so much energy , so much passion and I just I hope our listeners are able to hear and our viewers to watch what I'm seeing , which is somebody who is absolutely dead center in their zone of genius . This is what happens when somebody says this is why I was created . This is what I was created to do to equip , to empower , to encourage other people to be all that they can possibly be . I love free leading . That concept is so good . That is something I hope everybody's writing down and saying hey , this is a goal , not for one day , not for when I have time . You're never going to have time , no-transcript . But what I'm hearing from you is it's a cost that is well worth it .

Tim Johnson 29:34

Yeah , I mean out of the overflow , yes , of a deep and abiding relationship with the Lord , and I'd never heard the phrase that you said thank you for it . And I'll tell you why . Your zone of genius . And I would say that early on , if somebody wanted to seriously talk about what we're talking about , I picked up that they certainly didn't think that somebody focused on encouragement was a zone of genius . They had other ideas and so I had to wrestle with that . I mean , they thought of it as cheerleading , but the way they said that was .

Tim Johnson 30:18

You know , and I have a lot of friends that are athletic directors and I would tell them , used to tell my friends Bob Bowlesby and Ron Gunther they're big 10 , you need to create an associate athletic director for encouragement . So we know who's coaching the kids , but who's coaching your coaches ? And you can't because you're running a Fortune 500 company but who do you have around you that are truly encouraging your coaches ? Well , you know Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz or Nick Saban . They don't need encouragement . I'm going ,

Free-Leading, Succession, and Long-Term Influence

Tim Johnson 30:57

that's why you need me to tell you they do . And then and they couldn't see the ROI on that and I'm going , it's through the roof .

Tim Johnson 31:08

Absolutely it's through the roof . So any company that doesn't have a vice president for encouragement , I mean they're missing out on out of the overflow of what comes from that will be profits that they've never seen before , beyond what they've ever dreamed of the founder Truett .

Dr. William Attaway 31:30

Cathy would always say you want to know how to know if somebody needs encouragement , and then he'd give that little chuckle and he'd say , if they're breathing .

Tim Johnson 31:43

Well , I sat by Truett Cathy several years ago in Fort Wayne . It was an event oh my goodness .

Tim Johnson 31:52

And I got to sit by him and didn't really know who I was sitting by , but he told me that . He said he stuck out his wrist to me , said that and he said check their pulse . Same thing . I said what he said check their pulse . If they're alive , they need encouragement . That's right . Chick-fil-a and FCA have worked together and Dan Cathy became a friend of mine because he loves wrestling . He went to a clinic with Dan Gable when he was young and he's my age and what a wonderful family . That has proven . They prove out their profitability with , I would say , alternative ways of thinking of how to get a profit 100% .

Dr. William Attaway 32:33

They make more profit in six days of working than other companies do in seven , right ? So let me ask you , tim , you have to lead at a higher level today than you did five years ago , 10 years ago , and that same thing is going to be true five years from now . People depend on you . They listen to you . How do you stay on top of your game ? How do you level up with the new leadership skills that your clients and the people you work with are going to need you to have in the days to come ?

Tim Johnson 33:04

What a great question . Again , william . Two things , a great story . In 1998 , the biggest name in wrestling was Dan Gable . In 1998 , the biggest name in wrestling was Dan Gable . He retired from the University of Iowa . 21 years , 21 Big Ten titles , 15 national titles .

Tim Johnson 33:26

As the coach won the Olympics in 72 without a point being scored on him and we were in his chalet office North Iowa City asking him to join our team . I was going to move over from analyst to play-by-play . Join our team . I was going to move over from analyst to play-by-play . We're going to have the biggest name in wrestling now .

Tim Johnson 33:36

Be with us in Iowa Public Television at the time and be my partner . And he's sitting there and he's rubbing his hands . He's an incredible leader . And he says you know everything I've ever done he's looking down Everything I've ever done . I've wanted to be the best I can be .

Tim Johnson 33:55

He goes this is really no different . And then he looks up , he points at me and he goes Timmy , you're good , but you can be better . I'm 45 years old . I mean I'm going . Yes , coach , I mean you're good , but you can be better . And that has rung in my head ever since . I like the better you get , the better . You better get . That's right , you know , and that , and we have , you know , some wrestlers that are 37 years old now and they're still representing the United States in the Olympics , and I've sat with them . I said what I admire about you best most is you've got to get better . Every because you're a different age , you're at a different body thing and the wrestlers are getting better . You have to continually , continually get better .

Tim Johnson 34:46

And and so I think the other thing you said is this is I'm working on this now and I don't quite have it , but God's really impressing upon me Stay you , tim , because I could get so overwhelmed by all the advances that are being utilized in everything , in leadership , technological and all this . And I'm going back to hey , I am to encourage people to keep on , to not lose heart , and I don't have to think about the technology , because what they need to do , what they're doing that I have no idea what they're doing is they need to be encouraged that they have what it takes , is they need to be encouraged that they have what it takes . And so I'm wrestling with the tendency to think that I don't have much to offer , that I need to learn a whole lot more . And God's telling me keep it simple , answer the calls . And so I want to get better .

Tim Johnson 35:52

Every day I've got to stay in shape , spiritually nourished , the word fresh on my heart every day . Okay , and then your heart pumping , that's my Schwinn Airdyne and your attitude . The attitude of Christ should be in your life . And then zeroing on God's purposes , there's my P every day . And so if I get up about an hour and a half , my morning routine is so important for everything and it's not easy . But one of my Mount Rushmore I got Chambers and Spurgeon and Martin . Lord Jones are on Mount Rushmore of my dead mentors . But Chambers once said about getting up in the morning he says get out of bed and think about it later . That has driven me for three years . That's so good . I laugh when I get up in the morning because if I think about it I'm going to stay here .

Tim Johnson 36:51

I get up an hour and a half before my first appointment . I try not to have seven o'clock appointments , but I engage God first , and if I can engage God first every day , I can engage the hearts of anyone that God brings to me that day . That's what I want to keep my focus on , not how inadequate I am in understanding all of the advancements that we have in our world so well said .

Dr. William Attaway 37:23

Tim , you are a continuous learner . We've heard that so many times through this conversation . I'm curious is there a book that you would say this has made a big difference in my journey and for the leaders who are listening ? If you haven't read this , you need to check it out .

Tim Johnson 37:40

From a leadership standpoint , a book that I actually introduced to one of your earlier guests , chad Simpson , is Leaders who Last by Dave Kraft , and it's Leaders who Last by Dave Kraft , and when I saw the bio 14 years ago , it said Dave Kraft , 70 years old and a cancer survivor , and I said I want to know what he has to say Absolutely , and it was all . It was no theory , from a standpoint of the foundations , the characteristics you know and just how a leader needs to live his life or her life so that you don't quit , so that you keep on . And so that's where my stay in shape came from , because I was on a plane , colorado Springs , reading this book , and it's a small book Leaders who Last by Dave Kraft and Peter Drucker . In that he said , peter Drucker said your purpose statement should be short enough that it fits on the T-shirt . And I go .

Tim Johnson 38:47

that's me . See , this is a non-academic guy . I sat in corners of leadership seminars . They're saying , okay , now the next hour and a half we're going to work on a mission statement . I just doodle , I mean , I just kind of I go t-shirt , I can do that and I just wrote . I was 57 at the time and I just wrote I need to stay in shape . And inside 10 minutes I came up with my S-H-A-P-E before we landed .

Tim Johnson 39:15

And it has driven me since because I mean I will just zero in on physical . If I'm not in good physical shape , I don't think the same Okay , and so staying in shape is so important . That was really important . I love reading for enjoyment , but I don't do it enough . Joel Rosenberg's Espionage series they're all about the Middle East and it's like he knows what's happening before and that's really good .

Tim Johnson 39:46

And then David Hammerstam is probably my favorite author . He wrote a book called October 1964 , and it was about the Yankees and the St Louis Cardinals in 64 . But as you know and David Halberstam just drew me in from the way he wrote and the phrases that he said , and I'll just end on this book there was a rookie named Mel Stottlemyre . He's since passed on rookie in 64 . And the pitching coach said this phrase he not only listened , but he had the ability to turn what he heard into successful action .

Tim Johnson 40:45

And when I wrote , when I read that I go , I I thought coachability was just anybody that stuck their tongue out and went , yeah coach , yeah coach . And I went there's the definition of coachability , that's right . Not only listened , but he had the ability to turn what he heard into successful action . And my point there is throughout that book whether you were interested in that whole world series thing , you know . Whether you were interested in that whole world series thing , you know . And that run the way those authors are talking . And then what I'm reading today is Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Gadara . That's a great book . I used to be a waiter and it's probably one of my favorite jobs ever . And what you learn and then Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss .

Tim Johnson 41:29

Also a great book , Tremendous tremendous book , and those are what I'm reading today . Also a good book , but we all deal with hard stuff and he helped me walk through that , so there's a few books .

Dr. William Attaway 42:00

Tim , every time we talk , I walk away encouraged and having learned something new . This has been no exception to that . I'm so grateful for you sharing just a bit of the wisdom and insight that you have gained over these years that you share with other people . Now I know people are going to want to stay connected to you and continue to learn more from you and about what you're doing and how to engage with you . What is the best way for them to do that ?

Tim Johnson 42:28

I suppose just tjkeeponcom , my website , you can get a hold of me and that would be the best . Tjkeeponcom and um , um . My twitter is at tjkeepon , um and or x and um , my um . My email is in my website . So tjkeeponcom and um . Perfect , and I'd be glad to um with anybody . If you call me , we'll talk about taking the mat with you , not leaving it all on the mat and keeping on and not losing heart . I love it .

Dr. William Attaway 43:06

We'll have all those links in the show notes , tim . Thank you for your time and your generosity today , for your time and your generosity today .

Tim Johnson 43:12

Well , thank you , william , and , like I said , I'm so impressed with your generosity of the way that you share the gifts God's given you to help others be their best that they can possibly be in their leadership journey . And having me on and your demeanor is so kind and encouraging . I just want to thank you for that .