Stop Guessing: The Blueprint for Hiring the Right Number Two

If your business can't run without you in the middle of it, the problem isn't your team; it's the seat that's still empty.

In this episode, I sit down with Alec Broadfoot, founder and CEO of VisionSpark, a premium executive search firm in Worthington, Ohio, with a 99% placement rate and a spot on the 2023 Inc 5000. Alec has spent 14 years helping entrepreneurial companies make the one hire that changes everything: the right number-two leader.

We break down why gut-based hiring keeps brilliant founders stuck, how one assessment tool flipped Alec's own team from 70% turnover to 70% retention, and the eight indispensable traits every second-in-command must have. This is the conversation that makes you realize you don't have a growth problem; you have a people-in-seats problem.

⏱ Chapter Breakdown

00:00 — Welcome & Intro: Meet Alec Broadfoot and VisionSpark

01:27 — From Banking to Entrepreneur: Alec's First Business at 25

03:01 — The Hiring Crisis: Firing 7 Out of 10 Employees

04:00 — How One Assessment Changed Everything (Talent Impact Profile)

05:52 — The Origin of VisionSpark: Solving the #2 Hire for Entrepreneurs

07:01 — Why 78% of Resumes Have Lies (And What to Use Instead)

08:52 — The Book: Hiring the Right Number Two Leader

10:17 — The 8 Indispensable Traits of a Great Number Two

12:40 — Culture Fit: The Harvard-Backed Ingredient Most Founders Ignore

14:08 — Success Story: The Couple Traveling the World After Hiring Their #2

15:31 — How Alec Stays Sharp: Strategic Coach, AI, and Pulse Meetings

18:03 — Books, Resources & What Alec Would Tell His 25-Year-Old Self

📚 Books Mentioned

• Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
• The Road Less Stupid by Keith J. Cunningham
• Good to Great by Jim Collins
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni
• Getting Naked by Patrick Lencioni
• Hiring the Right Number Two Leader by Alec Broadfoot

Connect with Alec and explore VisionSpark's hiring process at visionsparksearch.com. You can also find his book, Hiring the Right Number Two Leader, on Amazon, and if you reach out to him on LinkedIn, mention the show and he'll make sure to connect with you personally.

Join Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence.

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

Dr. William Attaway 0:00

I'm excited to have Alec Broadfoot on the podcast today. Alec leads Vision Spark, a premium search firm in Worthington, Ohio, that's been helping fast-growing companies make critical people decisions by hiring the right people for the right seats every time. Since 2012, Vision Spark has successfully completed hundreds of leadership searches for entrepreneurial companies with a 99% placement rate, the highest rate in the industry. Vision Spark was recognized in the 2023 Inc. 5000 as one of the fastest-growing companies in the nation. Alec is a member of Strategic Coach and a sought-after speaker. In his free time, he enjoys playing tennis, collaborating with and coaching entrepreneurs, and spending time with his family. Alec, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for being on the show.

Alec Broadfoot 1:06

It's great to be here.

Intro 1:09

Welcome to Catalytic Leadership, the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive. Here is your host, author, and leadership and executive coach, Dr. William Attaway.

Dr. William Attaway 1:27

I'd love to start with you sharing a little bit of your story with our listeners, particularly about your journey and your development as a leader. I hit some of the high points, but how did you get started?

Alec Broadfoot 1:38

Well, I, you know, my first job out of college was in banking and I was in a management training program and lots of fun, lots of challenges, but I knew I didn't want to be in corporate America. So, you know, I was 25 and I bought my very first company with a business partner. And it became very apparent that everything, everything is on the leader's shoulders. And uh that's how I developed as a leader. I there was a lot more consequences at stake, a lot more impact. Even though we were a small team, you know, one small change made a huge impact. And so that's where I realized that, hey, uh, you know, as an entrepreneur, you you do have to lead. And that's where I really started developing my leadership skills.

Dr. William Attaway 2:17

Was that an easy shift for you? Or did you find that to be somewhat challenging?

Alec Broadfoot 2:22

I think it was it was easy in the way that I was not one who liked bureaucracy and red tape and cubicles. And, you know, we we had to have like 10 signatures to get something approved that was, you know, just a few thousand dollars, just a big bureaucratic bank. And so I really love the you want something done, you want to change a price in a small business, it's it's done, right? You you want to use a different vendor, you just make the call. And uh so that was easy for me. I think I've always been an entrepreneur, and uh it was very evident when I was 25 buying that small business.

Dr. William Attaway 2:55

I love that. As you had to hire more people to help you with fulfillment to serve your clients and your customers. What were some of the biggest challenges that you faced in bringing people onto your team?

Alec Broadfoot 3:06

Yeah, well, when I had the mailing company in 20 years ago, that's that's where I had some of the tough challenges. So that mailing company, we were firing seven out of 10 employees. And yeah, we were growing very fast. We were doing a lot of things well. We are super profitable. We had some of our competitors were were closing shop because we just did things so well. We our customer service was through the roof. We would pick up mail at our client's office, you know, around uh, you know, 2, 3, 4 p.m. in the afternoon, and then we would have it at the post office that night. So we'd have you know 200,000, 250,000 pieces of mail processed in that short time. So we had some big clients in Columbus, like JP Morgan Chase and the major hospitals and and some Fortune 500 companies. Um, we just did everything right, except we did not hire right.

Dr. William Attaway 3:53

So, how did you learn how to hire well? Because that's a skill. That's something you have to learn. I don't know anybody who gets it right the first time out.

Alec Broadfoot 4:00

Yeah. And some people think they're great at hiring, but you know when you ask them, you know, out of the last 10 people you've hired, how many would you rehire knowing what you know now? And usually that answer is, you know, two or three, maybe four, not a very good success rate. So I actually reached out to my mentor because the culture was really important to me and who we hired, and we were paying above market wages. And I was just frustrated by the quality of candidates. And my mentor said, Are you using any sort of assessment or science or data in your hiring process? And I'm like, What is that? You know, as a someone who's got an MBA, you know, I I think I was a lot more proud back then. Like I knew how to do things really well. It was humbling. And I'm like, what is that? And so he introduced me to the assessment. And that's the it's the same assessment that we use to this day. It's evolved, but essentially it's the same assessment that we use today in our company. And we started using that. And instead of us firing seven out of 10 people, we retained seven out of 10 people.

Dr. William Attaway 4:58

Wow. That's amazing. What what assessment is this?

Alec Broadfoot 5:02

It's called the talent impact profile. So it's very unique in the fact that it measures mental aptitudes like learning style, your mental acuity, attention to detail, vocabulary. And so it's not an easy assessment to take. And then it's 10 personality dimensions, uh, like your organization skills, your process orientation, your energy level, assertiveness. So it's about 16 dimensions. Um, we like it because it's not like a pass-fail, and it actually shows you a success pattern. So when we're hiring a number two leader, we want the scores to actually be in that success pattern, or an outside salesperson, or a controller. They all have different patterns. And so we want to see those scores. So it's pretty easy to figure out that someone's going to be a success. I would, I mean, it it's such a good assessment that I wouldn't hire anybody without it.

Why VisionSpark Focuses On Leaders

Dr. William Attaway 5:52

So what what brought you from that company to Vision's Park?

Alec Broadfoot 5:57

So yeah, I sold my interest in my mailing company and I started doing some consulting, and I was helping companies improve their cash flow. And what I saw within companies was not that not that they just hired poorly in all levels, but their leadership positions were even more significant. And you'd have this whole concept that, you know, this law of the lid that John Maxwell talks about, that if if if you have a five leader, you're really inhibiting that department of that organization. I saw a lot of my entrepreneurial friends making the same mistakes where they were hiring based on someone's resume. They were hiring based on gut, they were hiring because they liked them. And, you know, I made the same mistakes. And so I, you know, just kind of saw like these little lemmings falling off a cliff, kind of just doing the same thing over and over again. And I'm like, I got to do something about it. So in uh 2011, I started working on putting together a business plan for Vision Spark. I had a business partner at the time. In 2012, we launched, and we've been doing this for 14 years now, where we help companies all around the U.S. hire great leaders.

Dr. William Attaway 7:01

My goodness. You know, hiring a salesperson and hiring a number two are very, very different. You know, and yet I imagine there are some principles that you want to keep in mind with both. What what do you see are are some common threads that run through when people are looking for those A players, those critical people that they need for their team?

Alec Broadfoot 7:23

Yeah. Well, number one, you never want to hire from a pool of one. That's good. Yeah, you want to hire from a large pool of qualified candidates. 78% of resumes, I wrote an article on LinkedIn, 78% of resumes have lies in them. So with the age of AI.

Dr. William Attaway 7:42

78%.

Alec Broadfoot 7:44

Yeah. So and 100% have embellishments, right? So I mean goodness. Yeah. So so that the age of hiring based on someone's resume is over, and you have to use different data points. In fact, some companies are actually going away from using the resume at all in the hiring process. So interesting. Yeah. So you want to use some other data points. So an assessment, like the tip we talked about, behavioral interviewing is really important. Making sure you get good examples, specific examples, not theoretical answers, not answers that sound great, but actual examples. What, you know, was it a real person, place, and date? You know, so those are really important. Making sure you're interviewing for really good leadership skills. And so a good process has measuring someone's learned behavior versus core behavior, right? So you want to measure both of those things. Uh and so you, you know, what and you have to, the old expression is you hire slow, fire fast, right? And in this stage, you you have to hire slow more quickly. So we have we have a lot of candidates that are interested, eight players, they're interested in a couple jobs. So you have to do the same process in a much quicker way to get those good candidates. My goodness.

Dr. William Attaway 8:53

You know, you you wrote a book about hiring your number two, right? Hiring your right number two.

Speaker 4 9:00

Yeah.

Dr. William Attaway 9:01

And that feels like there's some experience behind that title.

Alec Broadfoot 9:05

Yeah, we've done several hundred number two positions. So for entrepreneurial companies all around the country in every industry, we've helped them hire the right number two. So that could be the COO, the integrator, the second in command, chief of staff, you know, there's over 30 titles for this role. But we're really good at that. And so when an entrepreneur needs that person to help them run their company, so the entrepreneur can be successful at doing what made them great. You know, for example, if their unique ability, their superpower is uh creating more revenue through partnerships or through new products or services or through invention, then if they're running the company, if the entrepreneurs running the company, it's actually inhibiting that. And so what I love what we do is that our clients who are mainly entrepreneurs, not only do they get plenty of time back, but they get much more joy back and a lot more energy back. Some of them have fallen back in love with their business. And yeah, so it's it's an amazing thing that we do. And then these candidates that find these entrepreneurial companies through our process, they are super grateful. They're like, man, I found my dream job. You know, thank you. And so we know we're making a difference on multiple levels, and there's multiple families impacted based on what we do.

Dr. William Attaway 10:25

I love that. When you when you're looking for a number two as an entrepreneur, you're looking for somebody who's going to help you make sure the trains run on time. Like you say, so many different titles for that. What are some of the key things that you're looking for?

Alec Broadfoot 10:39

Well, there are definitely indispensable traits of number twos. Okay, so number one is that they are strategic thinkers and problem solvers. And so just because they have a great resume, just because they pass your personality assessment, whether it's Colby, Disc, Myers, Briggs, doesn't mean that they're gonna be effective in strategic problem solving. So if they're not good critical thinkers, have a higher mental acuity, they're gonna struggle. And as the world is changing very quickly with AI, you have to have a good number two leader that can pivot and move and change. So that's number one. We've also seen that great number twos, they are really good in terms of their organization level. So they are not someone that, like myself, who's disorganized, someone that, you know, I'm I'm pretty good at being spontaneous and being creative and thinking on my feet. Good number twos are very organized. They value a plan, good time management skills. They want the company to follow a plan. They're really good at putting together, whether it's a it's a business plan or a VTO, you know, allowing the company to or or directing the company to make sure they're on task for hitting their 10-year, five-year, three-year, one-year, 90-day goals. Um, they're also very process oriented, and so they're they're able to create processes and implement processes. So again, I would not be good at that, and a lot of people wouldn't be. Um, and they need to be really good at um holding people accountable. And so uh they need to be patient, uh, they need to find the facts, they need to be assertive enough that they're able to make the right decisions, but sensitive enough that they're they're not gonna hurt people's well, not that they'll hurt people's feelings, but sensitive enough that they're understanding, they can empathize. And so you don't want someone that is gonna run everybody over, and again, you don't want someone that that is super sensitive and super athletic. So that's just some. There's eight indispensable traits, and that's just some of them. So those are the things that we look for when we are partnering with our clients to find a superstar.

Dr. William Attaway 12:39

You know, even even using filters like that, sometimes you get somebody who's just not a good fit. Right? What are some what are some things that people don't often think about when they're thinking about I know for me, you know, I I have a number of filters that I use when I'm evaluating a candidate. One of those that I added only in the last 10 years, you know, is the idea that we have a very specific culture as an organization, as a team. But I had never really thought about culture fit prior to about 10 years ago. Are there things like that when you're thinking about a number two that maybe people don't often think about? But but man, this is critical.

Alec Broadfoot 13:17

Fit is so important. Um, and you know, Harvard, they did a study on what makes someone successful long term. They looked at education, they looked at management experience, industry experience, community involvement. They looked at everything, and the number one ingredient for success was fit. And so this number two role, or really any role, it's so critical that they fit with the culture. Do they have your core values? Do they fit with you as the hiring manager? Is this someone that you enjoy working with? Does your team enjoy working with? Are they a good ambassador of your culture and core values? You know, if you can't answer yes to those questions, you probably shouldn't hire them.

Dr. William Attaway 13:55

I love that. Can you share, and you don't have to be super specific with this, but can you share a success story of somebody who was trying to find somebody for this role and you guys were able to help them to find the right person?

Alec Broadfoot 14:07

Yeah, I mean, there are several, but uh, the one that that comes to mind was early in this process where we just saw how profound the impact we make. And a friend of mine was a he was a consultant and he had a client that was in desperate need of a number two. So it was a husband and wife team on the East Coast. They had a couple hundred employees, they were, they were co-leading the company, they were in multiple seats, multiple leadership positions, and their marriage was on the line. They weren't spending any time together or with their children. And so they hired us to find a number two role. And so we were really we were successful. They were very happy with our process. And after the process, after they hired the person, I reached out to them within a couple weeks. You know, how is this person doing? I sent them a couple emails. I reached out again, maybe a month later. Um, I couldn't, I did not hear from them. So I started getting worried because, you know, we really value what we're doing. It's something wrong. You know, what's going on? Why aren't they talking to me? If we did, if we did a poor job, I want to know because we're gonna find the right person. So I couldn't get a hold of them. Eventually I reached out to my friend who was the consultant. I said, What's going on with this company? He's like, Alec, they are thrilled. They could not be happier, they are traveling the world right now. That's why you can't get a hold of them. And so, yeah, it's a great story. And their company has uh has done gangbusters since then, and they've been able to scale and grow and have the quality time that they they wanted.

Dr. William Attaway 15:31

I love that, man. That's great. You know, when it's when I when it comes to to leadership, you know, so often we we learn by doing. Uh, we have mentors, we have coaches, we have people that we learn from even through books and speaking and whatnot from afar, but so often we learn a great deal by doing. You know, you've been leading for more than a minute now. You know, your company, your team, your clients all need you to lead at a higher level today than they did five years ago. And that same thing is gonna be true five years from now. How do you stay on top of your game? How do you level up with the new leadership skills that are gonna be demanded of you in the days ahead?

Alec Broadfoot 16:11

Yeah. So so number one, I'm I'm involved in an organization strategic coach where we are with other entrepreneurs. And so every 90 days we get together and we learn new tools and we talk about what is going on in the world. Uh, we talk about AI. So that's that's important for me, is that I'm involved with an organization like that, who we are on the cusp of looking at what's what's out there, what's innovative. Um, AI, how can we use AI to improve our company? You know, where can we see efficiencies, improve raving fans, giving our candidates a better experience and our clients a better experience? Also, you know, I'm a learner, so you know, I I read different books, listen to podcasts. So that's that's all super important. Meeting with your team members is also very good. You need to have these post meetings to see how they are doing, you know, people on the front lines or, you know, my search consultants or my salespeople, um, you know, meeting with them to talk with them about what are some of the things that they're learning and what are some of the things that they're facing. And so it's really important to be intentional about understanding that. And so I think the the big thing is just, you know, not being complacent, not resting, um, you know, always making sure that you are up in your game, right? And so I mentioned the the law of the lid earlier, and so we have to get better as leaders um, you know, over time. And I think it's even more important now than ever because things are changing so fast. So things are changing, you know, what was true 30 days ago may not be true right now.

Dr. William Attaway 17:40

Yeah, I totally get that. I think I think with the rise of AI, which is on everybody's mind, I think, I think there's a lot of change ahead as we're in the middle of this season. And I think we have to be continually learning and making sure that we're staying abreast of of what is happening in the world around us. I love that, you know, you're constantly seeking new opportunities to learn and to grow. Is there a a podcast or a book that has made a big difference in your journey that you'd recommend?

Alec Broadfoot 18:08

Well, that's a good question. Um, you know, I love unreasonable hospitality, that comes to mind.

Dr. William Attaway 18:13

That's a great book.

Alec Broadfoot 18:14

And I'm currently reading The Road Less Stupid right now, which is for entrepreneurs. So, you know, I'm part way through it, but the importance of having quality thinking time and and making sure you don't have any distractions. And every day you have, or I think he says two to three times a week, you have about 40 minutes that's uninterrupted. And just how important that is that we have time to think. And it may be a specific issue, it may be a problem, it may be how to think of a situation. The book's really good in there about just giving you some questions in your thinking time, right? Like, you know, how how would your competitor think about this same issue, right? So that's good. So yeah. So that's a that's a book that that I'm really enjoying. Um, and just some of the classics I love Good to Great, so good. The five dysfunctions of a team, Lencioni's books. I love the book by Lencioni called Getting Naked, which is for the consultant.

Dr. William Attaway 19:06

Um that's a great book.

Alec Broadfoot 19:08

Unusual title. It's you got to be careful when you say that title, but it's a really good book if you're a consultant and you're doing that type of work.

Dr. William Attaway 19:15

That's great. Great resources there. I'm not familiar with the Roadless Stupid, I got to check that one out.

Alec Broadfoot 19:20

Yeah, it's a good one.

Hard Earned Lessons And Next Steps

Dr. William Attaway 19:21

So if you had the ability to go back and talk to yourself 20 years ago, knowing what you know now, what do you wish you had known then? What would you love to go back and tell yourself?

Alec Broadfoot 19:33

Oh, that's a great question. I think number one is don't worry as much as I've worried that things work out. Number two would just be more courageous to make the right decisions. And, you know, I'm I'm a people guy and I focus on all right, I oftentimes have made decisions based on how it would impact an employee or someone, you know, a customer vendor, and not think about what is best for my business long term. And so I kind of think about a decision, you know, what's best for the business long term, that usually is a good barometer. And so I just to be more courageous to make those decisions. That's great takeaway.

Dr. William Attaway 20:14

Yeah, I'll I'll ask this as our last question today. You know, it's it's easy for somebody to look at you from the outside and say, oh man, Alec, he's got it all under control. You know, he doesn't have the same challenges and problems that I have as an entrepreneur. You know, his journey's just been up and to the right. And we know that's not true, but sometimes it can look that way from the outside as we look at the highlight room of somebody's life. To illustrate the fact that that's not true, I I'm gonna ask you this. If I had the ability right now to snap my fingers and solve one problem in your business right now, what would you like that problem to be?

Alec Broadfoot 20:49

What a great question. One problem in my business right now, I think the um number one issue right now is that we are so focused on doing great work for our clients that we focus on quality over speed. And so if we could make our process even more efficient, you know, we say 90 days, you know, to find that great person if if we can get it done in in 60 days, I think that would be that would be number one.

Dr. William Attaway 21:18

Wow. What a great answer.

Alec Broadfoot 21:20

I love that.

Dr. William Attaway 21:21

And I and I think it just goes to show that there are always optimizations and improvements that we can see on the inside that we would love to see happen and that we're constantly working toward. You know, I think that's a beautiful thing.

Speaker 4 21:34

Yeah.

Dr. William Attaway 21:35

Alec, this has been great talking about your book and and vision spark and all that you're doing. I know people are gonna want to connect with you and learn more about you and about your book. But what's the best way for them to do that?

Alec Broadfoot 21:47

Our website's VisionSparksearch.com, the book, Hiring Right Number Two Leader, is on Amazon. And they're more than welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn. I mean, if if they they heard the show, they they can even put that in a note to me. And I'll I'll be sure to connect with them.

Dr. William Attaway 22:02

Awesome. We will have all those links in the show notes. Alec, this has been fantastic. I'm so grateful to you for your generosity and sharing from your journey and what you've learned so far. And I can't wait to see where you go from here.

Alec Broadfoot 22:14

Well, great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate being here.