One Hell Of A Life Outdoor Podcast

From TikTok To Tackle: Building Outdoor Brands | Brock Miller

• Tristan Vogel & Tony Vogel • Episode 157

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We dive with Brock Miller into how he built Topwater Co. and Zook Fishing Co. by learning ads, prioritizing creative, and owning customer relationships. The talk moves from Meta’s AI shift and TikTok’s downturn to Amazon growth, brand partnerships, and offshore obsession.

• leaving corporate advertising for entrepreneurship
• learning Facebook ads and testing creatives
• Meta AI optimization and simplified campaign structures
• boosted posts vs Ads Manager for real outcomes
• starting budgets, scaling rules, break-even thinking
• customer service as retention and moat
• email list building and platform risk management
• Topwater Co. relaunch and Zook Fishing Co. growth
• TikTok affiliate boom, pay-to-play shift, Amazon pivot
• how to earn brand partnerships the right way
• consistency on camera and overcoming fear
• offshore tuna and swordfish, rigs, and overnight trips


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SPEAKER_05:

What's going on, guys? Tristan and Tony back with another episode of the One Hove Life Outdoor Podcast. And today we got on Brock Miller. Brock's the owner of a couple different uh outdoor brands. And I just saw his videos on TikTok and thought they were interesting from a business owner perspective. And um, Brock, thank you for taking the time to join us, man. Uh, why don't you give everybody just a little intro on who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, no, I appreciate y'all having me on. Um, like you said, my name is Brock. I own a couple of outdoor brands, uh, one being Topwater Co. and the other, um, I'm co-owner of Zook Fishing Co. Um, but I'm relatively young. I graduated LSU in 2022. I did the corporate stint for a little bit and realized that wasn't for me. So I I had kind of piddled around with owning businesses and social media and stuff like that while I was in college, and then um, you know, did the did the corporate thing and thought that was the direction I wanted to go and quickly saw that wasn't it. So I come back into the business world.

SPEAKER_02:

You're not making a bad choice, Brock. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Back in the business world, and then um, you know, kind of I guess the rest is history. I I've figured out my niche and kind of what I what I enjoy, what I guess I'm good at, and uh kind of going all in on that now.

SPEAKER_05:

Awesome, man. So what did you go to school for? Like what what did you spend the time in the corporate world doing?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, uh digital advertising. Um, I would love to say that it helps, but uh it's it's just they're they're they're just behind. I think the the digital space and social media moves so fast that it's hard for them to teach a class on it. Um I've taken some you know courses and different things after school that have helped me a lot. Uh like one was learning Facebook ads. That's what has propelled um Top Water Coat to what it is, or what got it off the ground, uh, was learning Facebook ads. And we spent like two days on Facebook ads when I was at LSU. So it's it wasn't uh wasn't super useful, but you know, I I locked myself in a room. I think it was uh January of 2020 or December and January of 2024 for like a month and a half straight and just learned everything I could and started launching ads, and that's what we kind of propelled the the brand off of.

SPEAKER_05:

So with Facebook ads, I mean when you say learning it, I mean, is it just like dialing in demographics or like uh I mean your content you're posting, or what's kind of what off what are the tips, I guess?

SPEAKER_03:

Man, it it's like a whole ecosystem, but I mean you you can start really small. Um, what I the main thing I got from the course was essentially how to structure and set up different campaigns. And honestly, that course was based on how Meta used to be. Um recently this year, they made some updates, and the the updates started in January for some accounts, and then it I guess it it finally hit us like late summer, and everything we were doing just tanked. So we had to go back to the drawing board, and the the basics were still the same, but the way they wanted us to structure campaigns and um basically they wanted us to say meta take the wheel and we're gonna handle it, and we just give you the creative. So, right now it's really more focused on high quality creative and having a consistent flow of of good creative kind of coming down your pipeline, uh, which before it was a lot more like structured campaigns and you know, retargeting and all this stuff. Now you just kind of give it to them and the AI is gonna do what it's gonna do with it.

SPEAKER_05:

Okay, yeah. No, that's that's interesting. All right.

SPEAKER_02:

So it's just so let me let me make sure I I followed that right. And I apologize. I my um I got distracted by my phone for for a second. But um when it comes to like putting out a campaign, because I've I've met I've messed around a little bit with like um with that through Facebook and Instagram and stuff. So I did two different ads and I did what I selected you know all my um all my geo-targeting. I did it all myself and you know, by location, interests, all those demographics. And then I also did uh and this is a boosted post, by the way. And then I also did the AI, let AI do it, and the AI one did way worse.

SPEAKER_03:

Really?

SPEAKER_02:

But that was last year. So in and it was brand new, I think, last year, or right around there. Yeah, so it's probably gotten badass. I mean, I mean, I mean, how I'm not smart in AI, I can tell you that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I remember saying, and I struggled with it too. It's like the we I get we started running Facebook ads in in January of 2024 and started seeing success. We we saw success with static ads, then we launched video ads, and it was like a gold gold rush, like things were went crazy. Um, and we kind of just rode that wave. We recreated the same things that worked over and over for us again. Um, but uh one thing that you kind of said is those were boosted posts. Um what we typically do is we're running stuff in the Facebook like meta ad commerce. Um so it gives you a lot more, you know, a lot more buttons to push, a lot more settings to adjust. Um, and I think the targeting is a little bit better. If your goal is simply to just get more followers, you know, you can probably do that through a boosted post. But if you're trying to like drive traffic to a web page or sell a product, uh highly recommend doing you know, stuff that's set up through the meta commerce um or meta ads platform. That way you you can reach all the the necessary you know settings that you need.

SPEAKER_02:

Now, is that through the business suite or what's what's the name of that now?

SPEAKER_03:

Um they they're constantly changing it. I think it's it's they refer to it as uh the meta ads manager.

SPEAKER_02:

Um meta ads manager. Okay, I'm just I just wanted to throw that out there for anybody that's you know new and listening to this and they're like, what is that? You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm pretty sure like if you have a business, say you have to have a business manager.

SPEAKER_00:

Offering professionally, coastal, outdoor, teleporting, four, five, export, five, four, five, five, four, four, four, five, first, outdoor effort, just call it five zero two five one eighty six fifty four www.foridoc.com to put your craft welcome to the adventure making the forgotten code unforgettable.

SPEAKER_03:

But when you kind of go to the back end stuff of like your business manager, there'll be a tab that says like ads manager, and then it'll bring it'll bring up the the big page with all the different settings and you know campaigns that you can create, ad sets and and ads.

SPEAKER_04:

Cool.

SPEAKER_03:

But I mean it the thing about it, a lot of people get overwhelmed right right off the get-go, and they think you got to come out and spend you know five hundred thousand dollars a day, and you really don't need to. Um we like I started testing ads at like five to fifteen dollars per day. Um the general rule of thumb, like for a smaller lower ticket item, is just the cost of one product. Um, so we're you know about$15 per day. You know, we got a sale, that's great. We broke even, we get two sales, we're starting to make money. Um and it keeps us as small business owners from just blowing money, um, which you know, the big corporations they can spend you know ten thousand dollars to test an ad. That's for us, that's like a whole month of ad spend, so we can't really do that. Uh, so it's really crucial for us to start small and then slowly scale it up as you go.

SPEAKER_05:

Just to kind of piggyback off of that, like from kind of like a 30,000 square foot uh square foot, uh 30,000 feet level, um, you know, for people that are, you know, there's a lot of outdoor brands that are popping up, and you see a lot of them kind of like come and go, and I'm sure you see that a lot, Brock. Like, what would you say, like, you know, if you had to name a few things that are like just things you've learned that um you would suggest, you know, keeping it kind of topical, and then maybe we can dive into some of those things later.

SPEAKER_03:

Man, it's it's tough because you you have people that help on the scene, they just blow up from day one, and then others it takes them, you know, 10 years to to get it going. Um I don't know. I think customer service is big. Uh having a kind of system for taking care, you're gonna have you're gonna run into issues um with chipping and you know, people getting the wrong impression and having an expectation that you don't hit. Um so I think customer service is huge and and just taking care of those people because those are the people who are coming back to you. Um and we we get our fair share of you know complaints and and bad reviews. And one thing that we do is when we get a bad review, we go email them immediately and and resolve it, you know, as quickly as we can. And honestly, there's some people out there just angry and you can't make them happy. Um but the major the majority of them, you know, we're able to set them up with what they wanted or what they needed. A lot of times UPS or USPS lost their package and we we sent them a new one, you know. So it's just kind of part of the game. Um, but I I would definitely put customer service first. Um there's you know some some kind of back-end stuff. I would highly recommend setting up an email list from day one because that's your core group of people. And we saw it with the uh with the TikTok deal earlier this year when they threatened to shut it down, or they did shut it down for a couple days. Um, there were a lot of people whose whole business was based off of TikTok. And when that was you know shut down for a couple days, like their business was done, essentially. Um, so I I personally like to drive traffic to our website, like to get people's emails, and then I can always market to them or retarget them. And like that's my core group of people that I can always reach reach back out to because you never know when one of these social media pages is going to get taken down or banned or whatever. Um having a good group, a core group of people from day one that you're building is is a big key.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, no, that's that's really smart. Um, I want to ask some more questions about like kind of the strategy and stuff with your businesses, but before we do, um, I thought it'd be awesome if you kind of just give like a breakdown on what what the two companies um do and kind of I guess the products and the two the differences, I guess. What's the what are they all about?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, um, so Topwater Co. Uh we we sell the speed clips, we sell small batch topwaters, uh, we got some merch coming that we're we're launching for Black Friday. Um, but honestly, it's like a social media page that got out of hand and now it's my full-scale job, uh which is which is pretty cool. I I never I have two lawyers in my cu in my family, and uh I always you know they're successful. So I saw them like, man, I guess you gotta be like a doctor or a lawyer to you know be successful. And then I I learned about the business game. I'm like, all right, well, the business people have a lot more fun than they do, so I'm I think I might go this route. Um but yeah, yeah, Topwater is uh it's just a small brand we're kind of building up. Um I bought it in December of 2023 and relaunched it, made a new website, and we kind of rebranded it. Um and then I was working a corporate drive when I bought it, and I think it was June of 2024. I decided to go all in on it and left the corporate world and let it be my full-time gig. Um, and then Zook uh is actually a little bit older company, it's about eight or nine years old, uh, but it was started by a guy's like a retirement project, and he was building custom fishing rods in new around New Orleans, Louisiana. And um I did some social media stuff with him in probably 2019 or 2020, somewhere right before COVID. And uh we ended up going our separate ways, but he reached back out to me because he saw some posts I made about some offshore fish, some swordfish we were catching. And uh we started talking about his brand, and then he mentioned he was ready to get out of it. Um, and I topwater was like on a hockey stick, you know, kind of trend. So I didn't want to really take away from it, and I also wanted something that was more uh online only based because it would mimic what Topwater's doing. Uh so I told him no at first. I didn't want to buy it, and then I mentioned it to my buddy uh Mason kind of just in passing, and he's like, Well, I'll learn how to build rods. I was like, All right, you'll if you'll do that, I'll handle the social media and the sales and the website stuff. And so we kind of teamed up and um kind of build that up. We're basically building it in the same way using social media and you know, TikTok and Instagram and and all that stuff, and kind of trying to scale it up.

SPEAKER_05:

That's awesome, man. Good for good for y'all. Um I one of the things I thought was interesting is you were talking about like uh you know the success your company or your brand's companies have had on TikTok over as time has gone on, and then kind of how you know the way they're pushing stuff on TikTok changed. The success wasn't the same, and you guys pivoted into uh using Amazon. I thought that was really kind of an an interesting video. Would you kind of go into that a little bit?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, uh we launched on TikTok. It was sometime during the summer last year, um, and it was like it was the next like level and next push. Like Facebook ads did great for us, and then TikTok just blew it out of the water and and was doing really well. Um, and it was all organic, like we didn't have to put any money behind it. Like we would pay affiliate to commissions, but we wouldn't have to boost anything. Um, because like we we paid pretty good commissions, like normally 25% on our stuff. And uh people were naturally posting videos, and we'd have a couple every week go viral, and you know, just made a bunch of sales off of it. Um, but recently I would say somewhere around the middle of this summer, just our views tanked, affiliate sales started going down, um, and just got super tough. And then you start researching, and the people behind TikTok are pushing some different buttons and trying some different things, and uh it seems like they're transitioning to a lot more of a pay-to-play type scenario where you know the big brands who have the big budgets just throw money at TikTok and they get all the sales, and the small brands, you know, just kind of kind of struggle. Um, yeah, I had I had somebody comment the other day that it's uh uh it's gotta be a brand problem that we're not seeing success on TikTok anymore. I'm like, dude, we sold 50 something thousand units. Like, I don't think it's a brand issue. Right. Um but I mean we saw a very drastic change in our TikTok sales. Um, and I've always wanted to go onto Amazon. I just I've tried it multiple times personally and couldn't get his head up for some reason. And then one of my childhood friends, uh, we kind of got reconnected through our moms. They had lunch and kind of talking about us and saying we needed to team up. So they think they hounded us for like a couple weeks telling us to get together and try to work us something out. So I ended up hiring him full-time and uh he's got us on Amazon now, and he's he's crushing it. So we're I'm I'm the way things are going, I'm more focused on Amazon and uh we're gonna leave TikTok up and and kind of get a few sales off of it, but it's not really a super high kind of priority right now.

SPEAKER_05:

Gotcha, yeah. No, I mean that's that's awesome that you guys are able to pivot like that. Um, you know, I so I recently in the last like I don't know, month and a half. So we're uh we work with frog talks, and um, I want to get to like working with brands here in a minute, but um, we've worked with frog talks for a number number of years, and um they got us set up on the TikTok shop. And so now as a brand, we can, you know, be in use those affiliate links and get commissions and stuff like that. And it seemed like, and I don't know if you know anything about this, but it seemed like from the first few videos they were like skyrocketing, getting like all these views, and now it's a lot more of like a grind to get views on any of the videos I post. And I'm wondering if it's one of those things where it's like, oh, they're new, like let them, you know, have some success and then we're gonna make it harder.

SPEAKER_03:

I talked about that with one of our uh big big affiliates yesterday. I was on a walk and he called me, so we talked for like an hour about this current state of TikTok, and uh he mentioned that too that another brand, um line cutters, was just killing it right now. And he's like, Man, it's like he's selling some like line clip or snips. He's like, Man, like I had you have that same product, and we used to sell a bunch of them, and now we're not. And uh, I was like, I bet it's because they're brand new and TikTok's gonna boost it and let them get all this organic traffic for free, and then eventually they're gonna hit that wall and they're like, All right, now pay us to get those same results. So I I think it's a little kind of it's almost like a rug pull kind of situation. Get people hooked on it and you know, all about TikTok and set up all the infrastructure that bigger companies need, and then they're like, All right, now pay me, you know, what however much to uh to to get a sale.

SPEAKER_05:

Damn. Yeah, no, that's that's interesting to hear. That's I mean, that would make sense from the back end why that would be happening because I think they've only been up on TikTok shot maybe two months. Yeah, if that, you know, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Another interesting thing he he mentioned to me is he has some kind of access to this back end analytics, and he was able to look at like some what some of the bigger brands are spending. And um, I think it was like Ninja or something, put like twenty thousand dollars behind a video uh what GMV Max is like. These small brands just can't compete with that. Like they're if they can put that kind of money behind it, they're gonna crush anything that's you know small.

SPEAKER_05:

Right, right. Yeah, no, that's that's crazy, man. God, it sucks that it's yeah, it sucks with a rug pull, you know. I mean, for small, small businesses for sure.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm I'm hoping that it kind of you know, because I've posted a couple videos about it, and a bunch of people chimed in about how they're not making the affiliates aren't making nearly as much money. Um, and a couple businesses are leaving. Like I know Black Rifle Coffee told everybody that they're done, they're leaving TikTok.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And um, so I'm hoping it kind of impacts their you know, bottom line a little bit. And they're like, oh, let's let's go back to the the way things were before and and but we'll see. I don't know, I don't know if they will.

SPEAKER_05:

I guess we'll see, man. But um, you know, one one of the I think it's probably like the first video I saw um from you. It was you were talking about um, you know, relationships with you know your affiliates or the people who represent your brand. And one of the things like so when we started working with frog togs, I guess I'll preface, like we were uh we started duck hunting down in Florida, which is like you know, Louisiana, you know how that is, it's like super hot, you know. So we were drawn to wearing breathable waders, and back six, seven years ago, there wasn't a lot of options for breathable waders. I mean, Sitka had their like Gore-Tex out, you know, which is like it's not exactly like the same breathable, but it's lighter than Neoprene. Um, I think Cabela's Bass Pro had an option, and then Frog Togs had some breathable waders. I'm sure there's some other stuff, fishing stuff was out there. Um, but you know, there wasn't a lot of hunting breathable waders like there is like present day. And so we were just consumers of frog talks first and we're constantly posting stuff, tagging them. And I think I always tell people like we kind of built the relationship with them, like they saw we were consumer um we were supportive of the brand for a long time before we ever had like an actual like relationship.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think that's kind of what you were it's in the teens that morning, and maybe you're chasing ducks or geese, but now it's September and it's eighty five degrees and you're hunting early teal or geese. As a waterfowler, you need dependable weather protection that will not break the bank. Founded in nineteen ninety-six, frogtogs is not only the leader in breathable weighted technology, but a company you can depend on to keep you warm and dry, head to toe, no matter your hunting environment.

SPEAKER_05:

We're alluding to is like you go at people reach out to you, like, hey man, I want to be sponsored. You go look at their page, and it's like nobody they don't post anything about hunting or fishing or you know. So kind of go into that a little bit because that's one of the things I we've talked about a couple times, is like if you're wanting to work with a company, like you need to the best.

SPEAKER_02:

It needs to be your lifestyle.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, and you need to probably be a like a consumer of that pro company to begin with to show that there's like some brand loyalty there.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and I think and and just I'm sorry, you know, right before you get going on this, but you know, I think the the truth comes out in and I I I think your believability comes through whenever you are already using a product that you believe in.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's it's you know, walking the walk before you talk the talk. Um but yeah, I mean I've kind of seen it from both sides because I I was in the big end of the kayak fishing industry for a bit, and you know, I worked with different brands and Hovey and Bill Lewis and a couple different ones. Um, and all the best relationships I had, I met the people beforehand, shook their hand. Never once did I meet them and be like, oh, you work with Bill Lewis? Can I get some free stuff? You know, um, so you know, we built up those relationships, and then over time you tag them a couple times and they see your stuff organically, and then you know, they come they're coming out with a new bait and they're like, hey, go try this out and and you know, give us some feedback on it. Um and you know, not getting paid or anything, get one bait in the mail, you go fish it and give them feedback. And then the next thing you know, as you build that, you know, relationship over time, you know, then you get a couple thousand dollars worth of tackle that shows up at your door, you know, for the season. Um, but I think a lot of people just think, oh yeah, I fish and this is a fishing company, I want to be sponsored, and I'm gonna go ask for free stuff. And it's just they're they're skipping a bunch of steps in between you know the start and where they're hopefully gonna end up. Um, so and and now being having brands, we get uh I wish I actually I don't wish I took how many messages we get because it's just constant. Hey, um I fish for so and so, and you know, I'm I want to be sponsored. And you go look at their page, and either they don't have anything about fishing on it, or they're you know, repping somebody else's brand who's a competitor. You know, I've had that happen with the clips before too, is someone uh wanted to be a TikTok affiliate and I go to their page and they have like four different styles of clips on there. I'm like, well, I'll work with you, but you got to take those other ones off, you know. But people just they all they hear is outdoor brand and sponsorship, and they want to be sponsored, and you know, they they need to take their time and just build a relationship um before they go start asking for the the free stuff and all the discounts and all that.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, let me ask you this from like a uh ownership perspective. Like one thing we've and I'm not trying to just like say we're like anything special or anything like that, but like one thing we've always tried to do is like when we have something from a company is like try to give as much like content or whatever we can do back. So it's kind of like pay paying it forward to like your point, like they let you test something out. I gotta think from the business owner's perspective, it's like, man, these guys are really like putting an effort forward to try to like show off our stuff, then that kind of builds that credibility. I mean, do you kind of look for those things as a business owner?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I have a select group of people who I'm more than willing to give free product to. Um, and it's because we've built a relationship that's oftentimes a couple of years in the making. Um, and I've also let them do stuff before and they they provide good work back, you know, for us and stuff that we can use. Um, so when I come out with a new bait or a new hat or any kind of new product, they're the first people I'm sending it to. It's not the random, you know, kid in our DMs asking for free stuff. Um so it it truly I we're as business owners, we're looking for the highest return on our investment. And at the end of the day, if we have someone in this corner who can make great YouTube videos and shorts and ads for us and all that, and then I have another guy who have his page is about his dog and you know his his RC car, like I'm going with the guy over here who I can get some good stuff from.

SPEAKER_04:

RC car.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, uh yeah, you we've seen everything. Um but no, it's it it takes time. And uh honestly, a lot of it is is you know, young kids they're on their high school fishing teams and they just don't really know how the industry is yet. Um, and I'll I'll admit I was there too. You know, you you want to build some kind of uh you know career in the outdoor industry, and you you think, oh, well, I gotta have sponsors to make that happen. But at the end of the day, you need to, you know, take it slow, get good at making content, uh, build relationships with these brands. And then when the time comes for you to go on some big trip and you know, you've already provided value to them, they're more than willing to give you some products to use on that trip or even pay you for some content. Um, but it it's it's truly a process that you kind of gotta build up.

SPEAKER_05:

That's yeah, that's that's good advice, man. Um, you when it comes to your fish and brands now, how important are like the outdoor shows and like building those relationships? Do you guys do a lot of that or you just try to focus more on like the online stuff?

SPEAKER_03:

I I'm really heavy on online, um, but we did do a show last year. Uh, it was just a local show here in Louisiana, the Outdoor Expo. And we kind of went into it, I guess, with low expectations, um, just and so focused on online. Um, but the Zook did tremendous at that show. Um, I and I think also having like being a rod brand, people want to feel the rods, they want to see you know how heavy they are and and what the action is and all that. So it's a lot easier to sell that stuff in person. Um Topwater is almost all online. We do work with some retailers um scattered throughout the south, and I think a couple in the Midwest. Um but we we are planning to do some more um kind of next year and kind of use those as like big kind of pillar moments to launch some new products, some new rods and and lines. Um but my my advice, you you don't have to go pay the$1,500 booth fees or whatever if you're trying to grow a brand. Um start start small, be kind of you know personal, you know, show some personality on social media, make a couple of videos, get good at talking on camera, and then build that up, and you know, then you can go do a show and you know shake some hands and and you know, kind of put a name to a face in person.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I've seen you talk about a couple of times, just like post the video because like you never know what's gonna you know blow up, and then you know, you get better at talking as time goes on, too.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's it's truly a rep game. Um, like I I think I posted my first video, it was a YouTube video about marsh fishing for redfish or something, and I think I was like 13 or 14. Um, and I was in my little you know shop behind the house and showing different baits and stuff, and I posted, didn't tell anybody about it, and it got a couple views, and then my family saw it, and they're like, Oh, I saw you did that. You know. Um but no, that it's it's just starting starting to post and and getting the reps on camera, you know, figuring out, you know. In my opinion, we all consume the content, so you might as well be the one creating some content too. Um it's not hard to do once once you get get rolling. Um, you know, it's it's it's not hard. I I'm constantly thinking of video ideas. I know a lot of people out there are, but they just won't hit record. But as soon as you do it, it's it becomes very easy to do.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and then and isn't it it's just such an important point. And and and honestly, I mean, with us, you know, we have day jobs that we do with this, you know, and it's it's consistency. You know, that's that lies in into it, a big part of it too, you know, is that you know you you know, just like we follow anybody, right? I mean, anybody that you follow, and I'm speaking more to the younger folks, not necessarily me, because I'm more of a Facebooker, you know, and that kind of thing. But um it's you guys can absorb it so much quicker than like say it's us older folks. And you need it. Like I want to see something from this person like every day, every other day, a couple times a day. Those folks that are really truly doing that, and we've had several on the podcast. There's no I mean, I I I've said it a hundred times. I'm not surprised. Yeah, you know, I'm not surprised with the success that somebody has. And it's and a lot of those are just very consistent with the with what they're posting.

SPEAKER_05:

No doubt.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's I agree. I I think I truly think anyone can blow up on TikTok if you post enough videos, you make enough reps. You it's it's every video is a lottery ticket. The um the higher up wellness guy talks about that. He's one of my favorite creators on the app, watch every single thing he posts. Um, but he's like, every time you click record, it is a lottery ticket, and one of them is going to hit. Um, and it can change your life. Like, whether it's a relationship that you make or just some person who sees your video and passes it along, or you know, you go viral and that gets you the followers you need to launch your brand or whatever. Um, but you know, it and they're free. It costs you nothing to hit record and then hit post. So it's it's uh I I got a couple people who are close to me that I'm like, you would be great on camera if you would just do it. You know, you you would never have to work a job in your life if you just hit record, hit post, and and let it ride. But you know, I haven't won them over yet.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I'm that's dude, what a great point, man. It's a lottery ticket each time. And I mean, I I'm jealous personally of the people that are so naturally like um just naturally funny or just naturally like you. I mean, the funny in particular, man, like that is just such a gift. Like those people, like in particular, it's like I mean, like the guy, the stale cracker guy with the you know, the cop guy with the long hair and you know, cooking, like those kind of personalities just kill it on there.

SPEAKER_02:

Well and and and here's uh something else to think about too is that you know I think you can live in a little bit of fear of well people like me. Yeah, no doubt. You know what I mean? Well will they see me they're not gonna see you the same way you see yourself. You know what I mean? And just because you might have family and friends or something that go, what are you doing? That's weird, or your your wife is going, that's weird, you know, or something like that. But then, you know, you got this, uh you got this demographic, you know, whether it's men, women, kids, you know, adults, you know, whatever it is, that loc that lacks or I'm sorry, that locks onto you. And you know, that's one of the things that I think is is maybe keeping people um it's it's fear failure. Yeah, you know, I mean, um that fear failure is something that I've heard all of my life. I think it affects all of us and everything that we do. And and uh yeah, I think that you know, I mean there's things that even Tristan and I go back and forth with, you know, Tristan's.

SPEAKER_05:

I was gonna say I struggle with that because I'm I'm really like I have a hard time like especially with a podcast, like talking about stuff that I don't feel like I'm like well researched on. And that's kind of like maybe in my own head, because a lot of people just let it fly and like you know, if they're right, they're right, or whatever. But that's one of the things in particular I have a hard time with is like almost wanting to overanalyze stuff before I hit record, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, no, I I think um kind of the the overanalyzing part, it's well going going back to the kind of the embarrassment part. Um I I think people think people think it's embarrassing in the beginning, and then they start seeing your videos kind of tick up in views, and they're like, well, maybe he's doing something. Like I when I started posting the videos, I had 623 followers on that account just from posting random b-roll videos and random stuff. Never did any talking on it. I started posting and I think I'm a little over 10,000, but I had one person kind of make a sarcastic remark, you know, personally to me. And I was like, all right, well, we'll we'll see. And then I had a spiral uh later that week and it and it blew up. Um and I've gotten a bunch of cool opportunities, and and you know, our businesses have done better from it too. Um, but I I think you know it it's it's kind of tough love, but you know, you just got to get over the little bit of embarrassment. You got you got one life, so you might as well you hit record and see where it takes you because there's been so many people that I've followed from years ago that you know they they have a couple thousand followers, and you can just tell that something's gonna be there. And you know, I in in my opinion, I should have been making this kind of content five or six years ago before I started building the brands. Um, but you know, you open up TikTok today and they've got three million followers, and you know, they haven't work a day job ever and they're building their brands and their businesses, and they're you know, quote unquote living the dream. So it's it's uh you know, I I think it's if you want to do something cool, hit record and and the right kind of people are gonna find you. Um that's the other thing, is we might think we're all unique, but you you post a video about whatever, you know, gardening or whatever your niche is, and right people are gonna find you and follow you.

SPEAKER_02:

That's man, that's great advice, man. Maybe I should start posting more videos for bald people.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And that's that's such a generic thing that like could blow up, be like, wear it proud.

SPEAKER_03:

You know what I mean? You can have merch, you can have all kinds of the bald waterfowler.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, the bald yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You better start posting stuff about it.

SPEAKER_05:

From uh from like a personal perspective, Brock, with uh like your outdoor journey and stuff. I mean, I know obviously you love fishing. You know, tell us a little bit about what you like. What's up, guys? If you want coffee that doesn't suck, you probably can guess what I'm gonna say. Get the duck. Dirty Duck Coffee is the official coffee of the One Hove Life outdoor podcast, and they have a great lineup of different coffee blends. Everything from Morning Wood and First Flight to Dark Dynasty and Suns Up, Guns Up. You can't go wrong with Dirty Duck Coffee. And they have a great lineup of cold brew cans, mocha, french vanilla, original cold brew, and cinnamon tail snickerdoodle. If you want 15% off your next order, use code OneHell of a Life15 on your next order. Like to do in the outdoors, man, and who kind of got you into the outdoors and all that?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, uh definitely my family. My grandpa had a big, big impact on that. He's got some property in North Louisiana, and ever since I, you know, I think he bought it when I was like four, and ever since then, I've that's been my place I wanted to be. Um, so I'm mainly a duck hunter. Uh, I deer hunted really hard. It was in like 20, the season of 2017 and 2018, uh, because I wanted to shoot a big buck and ended up shooting a 163. No kills. And that ruined me. So I'm back to duck hunting. I've seen so many deer uh passed on and and uh somebody ends up shooting it, and I'm like, oh whatever, I'm I'm going back to duck hunting. But no, our duck hunting's not not too good down here. It will have a couple good cold fronts, and we you know, if if we get a cold front, I'm gonna be up there all week to be there when the birds show up. But it's just it's it's slow, it's Louisiana. Um but on the fishing side, uh, I used to be really big in the kayak fishing and inshore fishing uh with a little bit of bass mixed in, but um, we got big into offshore fishing when I was in high school because I got some buddies with a place in Grand Isle. Uh so we started with like snapper and grouper, and we're testing our luck with the bay boat, going out further and further each time. Uh we got caught in a pretty bad storm one time, and so we upgraded the boat the following year to you know safely test our luck. Um, but now we with the rod company we get a lot of good connections with charter captains. So, you know, they have a day off and they call us and want to go tuna fishing or sword fishing or something, and so we hop on with them. And um, but sword fishing is kind of my jam. I I love chasing those things. Um, but I like tuna fishing too, and a little bit of bottom fishing mixed in.

SPEAKER_02:

How how far do you guys have to go out offshore to hit the hit the the Gulf Stream there? Um or if that's what it's even called up in Louisiana. I know like it's so different in Florida, like on the Jack side, we'd have to go 60 miles, but if you're on like Sarasota, you go a mile.

SPEAKER_03:

You know what I mean? So to to source, we we typically soar fish in anywhere from like a thousand feet to 1,500 feet, and most spots you can get to in about 60 miles out of Grand Isle. Okay, it's a shorter run out of Venice, uh technically through the Gulf, but you still have like 20 miles or 25 miles through the river. So the run ends up being generally the same, but if it's rough, they have a shorter, rough run than than we do, if that makes sense. Um the tuna fishing, like during the summer, it can be a hundred plus miles. Um, but like right now the the tuna are kind of moving in closer around Venice. So those I mean there's been times, I think in January or February where we've almost come out of the past and start looking for birds and looking for tuna um out out of Venice. So they get in really close. There's guys in in bay boats that are trying to catch them. Um but right now they're they're probably fifty fifty miles or so. Gotcha, gotcha. No, I was just curious.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I didn't realize you had to go that far out of uh the Gulf side. Yeah, that's interesting.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it it's a pretty slow kind of gradual bottom. Um even further west, it's even even slower. Like it's it's all kind of like Florida almost. Like they'll run like if you run out of Lake Charles, you might run 100 miles and you're still in like snapper territory. Um so that around Grand Island, Venice is where a lot of guys do tuna fishing, sword fishing, stuff like that. Um, but really as you go west, there's a lot of cool bottom. Like a lot of guys have been dropping cameras down there, and it looks like Florida, like coral heads and reefs and crazy stuff that you know we don't have on the east side of the state.

SPEAKER_05:

Do you ever go do the like fishing off of those oil rigs or whatever?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's when we're tuna fishing, we're typically fishing like during the summer, you'll fish around the floating rigs, which are in like 5,000 feet of water. Um, and then as they start coming in, like you can catch them around some rigs that are in two or three hundred feet, and those are the ones that have the legs, they go all the way to the bottom. Um but yeah, we we do that. We do some overnight trips. Um, those are honestly, those are kind of where where I really fell in love with the offshore stuff is you know, you leave the dock at like seven o'clock in the morning and you're not back till maybe seven o'clock the next morning, maybe even later. Um, but you kind of do everything. You do snapper, grouper, swordfish, tuna. We typically tuna fish at night, like in the lights and the rigs, um, and then just kind of work your way back.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh my gosh. Yeah, that would be a that'd be an experience.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah, it's it's cool, you know, sleep on a beanbag for a couple of hours and drink way too much caffeine, and and uh, you know, it's it's a cool experience. And and I I'd recommend it. There's a lot of like there's a lot of charter guys that'll do it, they'll take you out there overnight, and it's it's cool seeing like the rigs lit up and you know, just seeing the tuna come up and the flying fish, and it's a really really cool experience.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, and I'm sorry to like throw this curveball in, but I can't help but think about the fact that my brain always goes this way, and I apologize, but you know we're talking about a floating oil rig. Yeah, all right, that is anchored nearly a mile. You know, you're talking five thousand feet. What's uh what's a mile, five thousand two hundred and sixty or eighty feet or something like that? But to me, like I always look at stuff like that, and and like I was downtown Atlanta the other day, and I look up and I'm like, how the hell did they get that gigantic crane up there? Yeah, yeah. Like, dude, like did they have to shut half the city down to bring that thing in? You know, I I I haven't done enough research, you know. I think maybe my br my brain just likes to think how unbelievable it is, but it it truly is crazy that when you think about the fact that you know they've got oil wells that are anchored out there floating, then you have oil wells that are built all the way to the ocean floor. That is just nuts. Like, who are the people that like what do you do for a living? Well, I go and weld some shit 5,000 feet under the under the surface, yeah. Whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

Being them in person is even more like mind-blowing how big they are. I mean, they're almost like cities, you know, where people are living, and you know, they're got basketball courts and all you know, gaming centers and all this stuff where they they live. Um, but it's it's truly mind-boggling up there. One of the cool things, like when you'll see it in the on the overnight trips, is uh like they don't have a lot of room to exercise, but almost every single time that we're fishing in the evening, there'll be a guy up there just running in circles on the helipad, getting his miles in. Um, and then sure enough, I go on TikTok and I see videos of people running like marathons on the helipad of of the oil rig. It's pretty cool. I mean, it's it's I don't I don't think I'm cut out for that lifestyle because I wouldn't want to fish the whole time. Um, but I know I know those guys that make a bunch of money, and then there's a couple of them who have like little side businesses where they kind of keep an eye on what's going on under the rig, whether it's big tuna that are showing up or Marlin or whatever, and then they'll get paid to give that intel to like sport fishing boats and and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_05:

So no kidding. That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Because yeah, a lot of the times isn't it kind of like they work six months and then make a ton of money and then they're good for a while.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah. I I don't know, I don't know what kind of the stints are. Um, I do we have a buddy who who runs uh the supply boats out there, and I think he works like three weeks at a time and then he'll get like three weeks off. Um, but yeah, I mean it's it seems like it's a young man's gig of running out there, making a bunch of money, and then you know, figure out something else to do. But you know, I I don't think I could do it.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, that'd be tough, man. Well well, Brock, man, we appreciate you coming on, man. Tell everybody, you know, where they can get in touch with your brands at, where they touch get in touch with you, and uh yeah, all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, we're we're on pretty much all the social media platforms. We try to keep up with them, but it it can be a lot at times. Um, but Zook Fishing Co. is kind of the rod company. We got some tackle and some other stuff in the works for that. Um, and then Topwater Co. Um as well. But we're on you know, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, um, maybe a couple more that I'm forgetting. But no, we uh we try to do the social media stuff, you know, pretty heavy and uh keep keep an eye out in the next couple weeks. We're we're planning to do some launches on Black Friday, uh, a couple of you know special edition baits and some apparel and some some different stuff like that. Um kind of kind of exclusive. So that's that's kind of the plan. But I appreciate y'all having me on. It's been a cool conversation. I I like talking about this stuff because you know, y'all have perspectives and I have you know my perspective, we get to kind of bounce ideas off each other. So I like talking about business in general.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, and so and you know, hopefully somebody's listening to this and going, you know, man, um, I think that any of us, all three of us, you know, if uh if somebody's new and they're trying to get into it, you know, I think that you know, send us a message, you know. Any of us, you know, if you if you're trying to get into what like what Brock's doing or or any brand and you just want to know, hey, you know, somebody that's lived it, done it. Um I think that you know, at least for me, I've not had any success in my life without duplicating somebody that's already done it. Yeah, you know what I mean? And whether it's a manager, your boss, an owner of company, uh a friend, you know, whatever, whatever that is, you know, and and I think that that's one of the cool things about the outdoor industry, whether it's fishing, hunting, um, or anything that you do in the outdoors, is that it's a pretty night, pretty uh uh um tight-knit community. And I think that people are you know, generally we're out there to help each other out, you know. So hopefully we help you out.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say is that we we think like when we start this new venture, we think we're the only one on this path, and yeah, we got to learn it all on our own. But in reality, if you you take a step back, you can see that this person's done this route and you know they made these mistakes, but this worked for them. Um, and if you kind of study the people who gone before you can really shut or close the the gap between where you are and where you want to be. So I'm always big on that of researching, you know, what other people have done, how they've done it, and you know, it can help you know shorten your kind of timeline.

SPEAKER_02:

Um kind of creates that that uh measure twice, cut once thing. You know what I mean? So exactly.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, man, we appreciate it. And I would just piggyback uh anybody listening to this who wants to get some good like business insights and stuff like that. Uh definitely follow Brock's personal page too, because that's the whole reason why we're connected here because I was like, man, this guy's like interesting with what he's the stuff he's sharing, you know. I just want to hear that. People need to hear this.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I appreciate that. I try to try to share a little bit on TikTok. I was good, I was consistent uh a couple months ago, and then September and October are slower in our side of the industry. So I had to kind of lock lock in and get the businesses rolling again. So I'm gonna I'm gonna try to post some more content and get that back up as well. Awesome, man.

SPEAKER_05:

Well, appreciate you sharing the time with us, man. And yeah, maybe maybe if we do it again, we'd love to hear kind of about the development process and some of these products and how you can come up with a new bait and all that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah, 100%. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_05:

All right, brother. Take have a go one, man.

SPEAKER_01:

I think I think I need to help down, I'll be in hell down, don't be on track. Now they'll go down, and in the forward.