How A Hunter Turned A Camera Into A Career | Brian Ellithorpe

We sit down with filmmaker and waterfowler Brian Ellathorpe to trace his path from beginner gear to industry work, swapping hard-won lessons on camera fundamentals, safety on the Great Lakes, and why flight beats kill shots for reach and impact. Along the way we unpack migration science, taste myths, and practical setups that make a hunt film sing without risking the crew.

• veteran hunt shout-out and how to get involved
• Brian’s origin story from marsh crawl to media career
• exposure, glass choice, and stability techniques
• building a business through weddings in the off-season
• lens ranges that cover blind, dog work, and sky
• workflow for fast reels and simple color
• why posting flight beats kill for growth and perception
• bird diets, mussels, celery beds, and flavor myths
• Great Lakes weather, layout boats, and safety rules
• boats, deep-V vs mud boats, and wave periods
• species mix from scoters to goldeneyes and canvasbacks
• regional risks from tides to gators and how locals adapt
• where to find Brian’s YouTube and social channels


Call or text 850-251-8650 or visit www.floridaducks.com to book your trip, Williamson Outfitters

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Chapters

• 0:18 Veteran Hunt Shout-Out & Opening
• 1:51 Meet Brian Ellathorpe
• 3:57 From First Camera To Full-Time Creator
• 8:11 Gear Vs Fundamentals: What Really Matters
• 13:25 Building A Business With Weddings
• 19:55 Lenses, Stability, And Slow Motion
• 27:12 Fast Edits, Reels, And Workflow
• 30:55 Why He Avoids Posting Kill Shots
• 35:21 Birding Week, Virality, And Audience
• 40:03 What Ducks Really Eat
• 47:20 Great Lakes Hunting: Risks And Rewards
• 55:01 Boats, Weather, And Safety Lessons
• 1:04:32 Sea Ducks, Layouts, And Bucket Lists
• 1:11:53 Gators, Depth, And Regional Realities
• 1:18:38 Closing Thoughts & Where To Find Brian

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:18

What's going on guys? Tristan and Tony back with another episode of the One Hove Life podcast, and we're about to get into an awesome podcast with Brian Elathorpe. We want to give a quick shout-out real quick, and with Tony being a veteran, uh felt like it'd be a good good place to start. But Williamson Outfitters, um, a guy we've hunted with several times, Chris Williamson, runs a great operation and runs a sweet hunt for uh veterans, and just wanted to take an opportunity to plug his hunt that's going on. Um, I believe if you want to get involved with it, either from a sponsorship standpoint or a um just to be a veteran and go hunt there. I believe it's the deadline's January 20th. But Tony, uh, tell him a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01: 0:56

Dude, um, let me tell you something. I don't care if you've even hunted before, you need this camaraderie. I'm a veteran and it's special that you know we get folks like this, and and big shout out to everybody that is involved with the veteran hunts and youth hunts. Um, and we're just lucky enough to be, you know, in partnership with Chris, and he really does it first class. Yeah, I mean, he really does. And man, if you're on the fence of like, man, I don't know if I should do this or not, dude. Just go do what your friends say. Seriously, and get a hold of Williamson outfitters right away and get booked down there. You guys, it's it's something you'll never forget. I just I've had some really special veteran hunts, and it's when the season's over. And I don't know, just a lot of times you shoot them in the face.

SPEAKER_03: 1:45

So appreciate y'all uh letting us drop that and appreciate Brian for uh the the delay right here in the beginning. But without further delay, we're excited to have Brian Elathorpe on the podcast. Uh, you guys, whether you know it or not, I guarantee you've seen one of his videos somewhere on social media because it's always like a high quality clip of like a diver doing it dirty, or like just recently the clip that uh dreamshots with the uh shoveler. That's incredible, like the most plumed-out shoveler. But Brian, man, thank you for joining. Tell everybody just a little bit of your background, a little two-minute commercial, if you will.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19

Yeah, please. Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for the kind words. I appreciate it. You guys have been you guys always say nice stuff when I post it, so I really appreciate it. So I'm Brian Ellthorpe. Uh thank you. Brian Ellathorpe from Ohio. Um started waterfowl hunting about 13 years ago. Um, my my buddy in college, my roommate, his dad carved decoys for hardcore decoy, and so he had always gotten a bunch of decoys and stuff, and he was like, I got too many at the house, you guys take them. And I really wanted to get into duck hunting because I was deer hunting at the time. And so I was like, you know, we started doing that. I got hooked immediately. And like I told you guys before this started, the there's a marsh right down the street from my house, about a mile and a half. That's the marsh that we started hunting when I was in college. So when I graduated college, I bought a house inside that marsh, like a mile and a half from here. And then uh yeah, and so that was in 2016. And uh while I was there, there's always ducks in the pond behind my house, and I could never get close enough. And for whatever reason, my brain didn't even go to like buy a pair of binoculars, it was get a camera with a big lens. So I found this cheap camera, it was a Nikon D3300, and it came with a 300 millimeter lens, and so I would belly crawl from my back door out to the pond and uh take pictures of these ducks to see what they were because by the time that I would get out there, they would be long gone. Yeah, and uh so then I started going down the rabbit hole, and it was like, why don't my photos look like the cover of Ducks Unlimited magazine? And I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. I'm like, I got this camera, it's definitely at the time I'm like, this is the nicest camera you know I could possibly find. And uh so then I started learning like editing and starting to like actually get my photos how I wanted them. Then I started going down the road, the YouTube rabbit hole of like Peter McKinnon and how to use your camera and how to edit, how to do all that stuff. And uh I think at one point I started buying more camera gear than duck hunting gear, which is as you guys know, already expensive. And then I just went off the Richter scale with buying camera gear, and it's like now I've got this, I don't even know where it's at. Now I've got this 500 millimeter F4 lens on a super nice body, and I've got you know pretty much a I've built a business out of it where now I I film hunts obviously, and I take photos of waterfowl, but um, I also grew a YouTube channel, and that's kind of like gone into the diver realm and all of that just because I'm so close to the lake and hunted all the time. So I was trying to get camera gear to film YouTube videos, and then um that kind of led into me filming weddings somehow.

SPEAKER_03: 5:19

So that's and that's how you can't film you can't film ducks all year around, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02: 5:24

Yeah, and I yeah, I don't know if that necessarily is why I started, but I started seeing how much money came from it, and I was like, okay, I'm I'm in on this. So that's pretty much bought all of my camera gear, and uh that's what I do in the off season of hunting, and then um I started working for Tangle Free Waterfowl as a photo and video guy, and uh they also sponsor RMTV, and that's how I started working with Sean Stahl filming um for RNTV. So man, about as compact as I can make it, but it's been a wild ride.

SPEAKER_03: 5:56

Yeah, that's yeah, that's a great. I mean, gave us a great, you know, a lot of stuff to work with there, you know, right off the bat. But man, I I that journey you talked about right at the beginning where you start with whatever camera you can get your hands on and you think it's the nicest, and it's just like I I'm probably like five years behind you. Now, I'm I'm not as bad as running like a DSLR still, but like just in that journey of like learning stuff, you know, and constantly I mean, because all of us are trying to do our best all the time, and there's so many people with what you can afford, right? And that's the thing, and there's so many people like myself included, us included, that are just always trying to kind of level up their gear and take their thing to the next level. Um, so I love that you shared that because I think there's a lot of people that you probably get messages all the time, people in that same boat.

SPEAKER_02: 6:47

Yeah, and it's always like, you know, what what's the best camera? And it's like that's subjective anymore because the top three or five brands, however you look at it, they are all such good cameras. Like you you can't just if I pick up your you you shoot Sony. No, I mean I we were on a Canon R8. Okay, I didn't know if it was Canon or if it was Sony, but I can pick up your camera and know how to use it. It's not the camera that does the job, it's it's the fundamentals of the exposure triangle or like the 180-degree rule if you're filming, and it just like that's the rabbit hole that you go down when you're like, why don't my photos look the way I want them to? Or why doesn't my video turn out the way that I want it to? And everybody will tell you lenses and editing, and it's like the camera body itself, you need a good body if you're trying to do high quality stuff, like that's just the name of the game. Like, you can't pick up a crop sensor DSLR and try and film the ducks at first light because it just doesn't have the the fundamentals, it doesn't have the ISO that you need, it doesn't have the sensor size that you need. It's like you need a good camera to do this quality of work. And yeah, for me, it was like I I spent a lot of money on camera stuff like right away, but I was able to fund fund it by doing the weddings and doing like side gigs and stuff like that. So, like a lot of pretty much everything that I've made off of weddings and doing anything with a camera, I have put money back into buying stuff. Like now I run five mirrorless cameras, I have 12 lenses, I have GoPros and 360 cameras and drone. I mean, I I have it all, but I wouldn't have done that if I wasn't making money doing it too. So it's like it kind of goes hand in hand. You start doing quality stuff, people hire you, and then you can kind of grow from that. Like, not only in the experience that you get by doing all that stuff, like I can handle the chaos of a duck hunt or a crazy goose hunt because I'm dealing with crazy brides for eight, nine months out of the year, and you know, crazy families. So it's like it it just kind of snowballed into that for me. And there's a few guys that I know, like Grant Sinclair, he we meet him talk about doing uh weddings, and uh it's kind of funny. Like, there's people that are completely against doing weddings. I uh they won't take photos for weddings, they won't do video for weddings, and then they're like, Why start doing it? I'm not kidding. There's people are always gonna die and get married, so you always have a revenue stream if you get into one of those two things, and babies.

SPEAKER_03: 9:38

It usually usually you won't die more than once, but uh, but you might get married more than once. I don't know, bro.

SPEAKER_01: 9:46

There's a lot of people that would definitely say that Tony Vowell has outli outlived uh many cats, yeah. A couple cat lives, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03: 9:55

Since we're on the um camera topic, you know, and kind of nerding out a little bit, you know, one of the things I'm looking at wanting to do this offseason is upgrade from the R8's been really good for us. Like it was the first like 4K mirrorless camera we could get into at a decent price point, and we got like a decent, like a 100 by 400 millimeter lens, and so we've you know got some good flexibility with what we can do, but the things I'm running into is like now I'm addicted to slow motion and it only is 1080p. So I want 4K slow motion, I want two SD card slots, I want the audio with slow motion and all these things. Yeah, and there's like you said, a lot of a lot of cameras out there that have that at you know, maybe that three to five thousand dollar price point, I guess. Right. Um, but a lot of people say Sony is like the move for low light, and you were just saying Sony. I mean, is that if you had to for what I'm kind of describing, I mean, is that what you would suggest too? Or I mean well, I run all Nikon stuff.

SPEAKER_02: 10:54

Oh, okay, okay, gotcha. Okay, so never mind. Never mind. That's what I'm saying. Is like, I mean, I I I've run into people, like uh I mean, I've been around people that are shooting Canon and Sony and stuff, and um then I show them something that I've shot, and they're like, dude, what are you shooting on? I'm like a Nikon Z63, and they're like, You're kind of making me want to buy that camera. You know what I mean? But it's like it's not just the camera, it's how I'm comfortable with that camera. I can go anywhere and shoot anything. I nobody has found something yet that I can't at least film or take a photo of because you just apply those fundamentals to whatever you're doing. So it's for me, it's like if I want to shoot something different, like if I want a different aspect of something, I change lenses. I don't change what I'm doing, I change my lens. Because if I'm shooting, like when I shoot the TV show for RMTV, 95% of the time I have a 24 to 120 on, and that is like the perfect range because I can spin it back and I can get everything in the blind.

SPEAKER_01: 12:03

Then I'm dumb and I make sense to me.

SPEAKER_03: 12:06

And it just gives you a good range, and so it's like we've we felt like we're missing yeah, because yeah, we're kind of in a hole because I think our I have a kit lens that's like a 2550, and then uh got the hundred and hundred to four hundred. So it's like, or maybe it might be twenty five forty, but like so you have super wide, and then you have like something that you get real close with, but like I need that middle range, like you're talking about. Well, and your sacrifice also is that this winter, elevate your outdoor pursuits with Williamson Outfitters, offering professionally guided experiences along Florida's Forgotten Coast. From coastal duck hunting to indoor fishing, every Williamson Outfitters trip is led by a seasoned captain delivering world class adventure with true local expertise. From small private groups to large corporate retreats, Williamson Outfitters fleet of well-equipped boats and experienced guides provide first-class winner outdoor experiences for sportsmen of all ages and skill levels. And for those planning ahead, Williamson Outfitters is already looking spring and summer charters. Secure your fishing, flounder getting and family adventure dates now before their calendar fills up. Call or text 850-251-8650 or visit Florida Ducks.com to reserve your outdoor experience. Willington Outfitters, making the forgotten coast unforgettable.

SPEAKER_01: 13:24

And like I'm not gonna talk too much about videography because I I am only a backup guy, but but um I do know simple basics, and it with that strong of a lens when you're trying to zoom in on something with the setup we have, dude. It's so hard to keep that footage still. Yeah, it's so hard. I mean, you can put your anti-whatever's on it, but it's still you gotta hold it so super steady. But to me, like that would be the perfect, like it's kind of almost in between what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02: 13:59

Yeah, so it's it's it's good enough for everything because you like obviously if you've got birds that are at 300 yards, then I'm grabbing that 500. That's what I'd be filming. If the birds are consistently going in at 300 yards, I'm grabbing the 500. But if I'm in a if I'm in a duck hole or I'm in a duck blind, and I'm not trying to film those birds that are 200 yards. I want kill shots and I want stuff in the blind, and I want dogs retrieving. I can do all of that with a 24 to 120. There's times I don't even I just take like my backpack and I just have literally like three batteries, backup SD cards, microphone, camera, 24 to 120. And if I'm like, I really kind of want to get like something specific, I I'll pack the 70 to 200, but I can't get in blind shots with that. I have to be pretty far away from like if I'm filming a dog and I want to follow the dog like into the blind or whatever, I have to be kind of far away for that. And like if I want to get there's times where you know you get that rain out, or you see birds coming in, you're like, I'm not gonna try and pick one of these. I get them tight as they're coming in, and then as soon as people start shooting, I back it off to 24 and I get that rain out. I can't get that with a 70 to 200 because that 70 is just a little too tight, depending on where I'm sitting. So all these things go through your head where you're like, I always think like Sean will give me the premise of whatever show we're filming before we go. We'll kind of talk about like what we're gonna look for and what he wants me to get and stuff like that. And obviously, you're playing with nature, so you kind of have to take that with a grain of salt. Like they might not cooperate, but at least I know if like if it happens how I want it to happen, yeah, I know what I need to do, so I'm ready for it. But that's this kind of stuff that just comes with doing it so much.

SPEAKER_03: 15:59

Yeah, no, no doubt. Like, there's so many little things that and you know this way more than I do, but just like one of the things I figured out last year is like so I wanted to, I kept figuring out on like really bright days, like God, everything's so washed out no matter what I do, you know, overexposed, yeah. And uh I got a uh like a lens filter, you know, like the a UV filter to help cut yeah, yeah, to cut it. But it was just like a cheap one I got from Best Buy. And what I thought I had great footage, and come to find out, like some of the stuff I was getting like in tight on birds, like it, you know, I'm just looking on the monitor, so it looked pretty crisp to me. But when I go back and look and I'm like, son of a gun, I know I was on them tight because I'm you know doing manual, but is because that cheap filter screwed it, like when I would get tight with that 400 millimeter lens, it would just could not get like the same level of crispness, crispness. Okay, so like these shots, yeah. Yeah, these shots that I was like, oh, this is like the best thing I've ever done. I was just like devastated after that, you know. But just learn learning now. I know I gotta invest in a good one.

SPEAKER_02: 17:07

Yeah, that happened to us, so like I'll I'll tell I'll give you a little situation of what I did in that with that. Um, so this last we were we we did a run in Missouri, so we always go down to this. Well, the show always goes down. I've gone the last two years to um this private ranch called Maple Ranch. And so the first two days we had like killer lighting, it was just kind of cloudy, or it was backlit, so everything was just perfect. The last day we had to hunt this hole where the wind was because of the wind and the way that it was, the sun was gonna be directly in our eyes. Well, right at the sunrise, it's cloudy, it doesn't matter. Then the birds start flying, the sun comes out, and I'm like, I'm screwed. So what I did is I grabbed that 70 to 200 and I bounced out like off to the side, so I could shoot where the sun wasn't directly at the birds. So you can move if you have the opportunity to move around, that's kind of how you combat that. What I also do if it's super bright out, is uh I will run my camera in auto ISO and then I'll bump up the shutter speed to like a thousand. Something where like when I put it, I'll kind of like do a test like at whatever I think I'm gonna be filming, like whether it's a tree or a decoy or something, and I'll get my lighting perfect. And then that way, if it gets to a point where like it the camera gets too dark, it just bumps the ISO up on its own, so it'll constantly keep you at like a decent exposure, and then you can go back in, like you can go back in post and kind of touch it, you know, bring it up a little bit or whatever you gotta do, but that way you at least don't blow everything out. That's the best thing that I've done so far.

SPEAKER_01: 18:56

Every time I get the camera anymore, I'm like, Tristan, put that F-stop at about a neutral position, you know, not giving them like put it at like an eight, nine, ten or make sure everything focused. Yeah, that way everything I film is gonna be in focus. There you go. Yeah, auto several. But let's face let's face it, to get the shots that you do, especially some of the stuff. You guys gotta go look at the stuff. If you're not right now, pull over, don't drive and take look on your phone. But pull over and look at some of this shit, dude. It's gotta be like negative F. I I don't know. It looks like 8k stuff. I mean, it's just so sharp. It's so natural. I appreciate it. It's uh it's it's beautiful stuff. I've seen so many videos that I've just been like, all right, that's about you can't bet you can't do it any better. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 19:46

Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, it's uh I I I mean, I spend a lot of time filming. Like, I these next three months are gonna be like I'm out every weekend with this giant lens, and I mean that thing weighs, I think it weighs Nine pounds just the lens itself and the camera's a pound or two. But I mean I I handheld shoot 80% of the stuff with that. So it's like I'm sitting out there, I get home, my shoulders are just destroyed. But it's because like with a camera that size, or like if you're just trying to get stuff that's stable, you have to like tuck your elbows and keep everything super tight to be in like I feel like a sniper because I'll as soon as I see a bird, I'm like and I hold my breath as I'm filming. It's like, but these are all things that help stabilize your body. It's kind of saying, I don't know if you guys play golf, but like I grew up playing golf, and the best thing to do for putting is to move every keep everything tight and move your shoulders. Well, it's the same thing with cameras, everything tight, and you just move your torso, shoulders and you're everything you keep everything tight. And a lot of that stuff is I mean, like you're saying, yeah, people message me all the time, and they're like, How do you get footage that's stable? It's like, well, I have things in camera that I can turn on, I can stabilize and post, but for the most part, I try and keep everything as smooth as I can so that I don't have to do all of that post. I shoot what I want to see, and then it makes everything like I can edit like the that shoveler video. I came home and I edited in like four seconds because I have a I have a profile or like a project saved for just reels, and I can just throw it in there, change the frame rate on it from you know, I film everything at 120, so I can drop it down to a 24-frame timeline, cut what I want, stabilize it, change some coloring, and then I ship it out. It's like that's just that's what keeps me able to do put out as many fit videos as I can because I can come back with all this footage and I can go through it like that, get what I want, and I can go back out.

SPEAKER_03: 21:54

Yeah, no, that's that's awesome advice, man. And I think um, you know, from like a simple simple like simplicity standpoint on just keeping that's kind of like I got the same thing set up with my I just call it TikToks, and I'm really bad because like I don't delete anything I ever put on this Adobe Premiere Prime timeline. So it'll be like before I start a new one, it'll be like an hour and a half with like it'll be like okay, I'll make like a little 15-second clip, yeah, and then I'll have like a big space in between, and then it's not truly an hour and a half of stuff worth of stuff. I see what you're doing. It's just I keep reusing this project and we'll export like the next thing I make.

SPEAKER_02: 22:34

I do that. Like my if you look at my exports on uh because I use DaVinci, but it's like I think it's at like 500 something, and I made that program or that file last year. Holy cow. Like in the last you know 15 months, I've probably made 500 little real videos.

SPEAKER_03: 22:56

Wow. Did you uh were you an Adobe guy and switched to DaVinci? Or did you no? Okay, because I know a lot of people are doing that too, right?

SPEAKER_02: 23:05

It was called Adobe, oh I think it was like Adobe Lite or something, Adobe Premiere Lite, and that was what I first started like cutting YouTube videos with. Um but then as soon as I bought my own computer, I was using it on my work computer, somehow they told me I could download it on there, and I was like, cool, I'll I'll use this to edit videos until I decide if I really like it or not, you know. And then uh I started editing photos, and I'm like, I I gotta get my own. So I bought like a cheap Mac desktop, and uh I don't know what what made me do it, but there was somebody in one of the forums that was like, Oh, well, Blackmagic has a free editing software, and I was like, Well, that's pretty sweet. I used the free version of it from 2018, 2017 until last year. I finally bought the studio version. Wow, nice, and I only bought the studio version because I have an editor that helps me edit my wedding videos, and he uses the studio, and he does all this crazy shit in fair light, and then like I can't see it unless I have the studio version. So if I go in there to mess with something, I can't use it unless I have the studio. So I'm like, Oh, you made me buy the studio, I was saving so much money. It's only 300 bucks, and it's for like a one-time thing. So I'm like, I'm just being cheap.

SPEAKER_01: 24:29

But um, yeah, I got a question, Brian. And and this to me is one of the toughest things. I think for every filmographer or uh whatever you want to call yourself, videographer, videographer. Um, I saw a post, and I might not get this word for word right, but it was Jace Robertson talk giving advice about videoing, uh-huh. And he said, I'll give you one piece of advice if you're filming a waterfowl hunt. He goes, I think he said follow the hunter, is what he said. So basically, what he I think what he meant by that was look at his eyes, watch his barrel. Like, if you're trying to, like you said, there's been times where this giant a wad comes in, right? And I know you've seen it because I've hunted those. And how do you pick your target? Is my best, I guess. My question is, how do you tell us, like, when you go out on a hunt and you're sitting there, you got five guys with your six, whatever, in a pit and a blind, whatever it is, like the ducks are rolling in. How do you pick your target?

SPEAKER_02: 25:38

So, like you're saying, like the to follow the hunter, it's like there is a style, and you guys will see you guys have seen it in other videos, but it's like somebody will be on the person that they're filming or shooting, and they'll kind of follow up with them so that they can see their barrel like line up on a bird. Yeah, so you can do that. Um most of the time when like if I'm filming and we're in a boat blind or something, it's always super tight. So it's really hard for me to like be filming and then also like spin to try and get something, especially if there's a bunch of brush on the front of the blind.

unknown: 26:14

Sure.

SPEAKER_02: 26:14

And the more that I move, the more the birds see. So I really try not to screw up a hunt. Like, I anytime somebody's like, Oh, it's the camera guy, I'm like, I'll be damned if it's the camera guy. Yeah, I'm I'm hiding, I'm steady, I'm making my face is covered, I'm making sure that it's not the camera. And uh, but like if if birds come in, generally anybody that pops up out of the blind is gonna shoot the closest bird first, no matter what. So I'm always tight on the closest bird. If there's a big group that are coming in, I just will go wide because I really don't want to miss. Like, there's some people that we hunt with that they will not hit that bird, they'll miss and then it's like it's it just it that's just the way it goes. They're gonna miss that burn. It's like at least if I'm wide, I get something going down. Yeah, and I really hate to miss shots, but I love those super tight shots. Sean loves those super tight shots. Connor Mobley that edits our stuff, he definitely likes those tight shots because he's always using them in the videos. But I'm so I'm like, I I try to get those because that's what people really want to see. And uh but to your point, like go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 27:27

No, I was gonna say, so I guess you gotta just like kind of pick your targets, right? Like, like I'm just envisioning you're going through and you're filming this hunt, and we always have a list of things that we're wanting to get, right? Whether it be brand related or shot related, hunter-related, blind talk, whatever it is, right? You're always trying to be creative in that side of it, but as you're going through it, you know, you start to check off these boxes, right? Like, okay, this is such a good hunt. I've got plenty of kill shots. Now I'm going to the next pentail Drake that comes in. Yeah, I am balls to the wall, zoomed in on that sucker. You know, I mean, so do you kind of do the same thing? Yeah, do you kind of do the same thing and have like list them by priorities? Like, is that how kind of how your mind works?

SPEAKER_02: 28:17

That's so like if if I know the premise for like whatever show we're doing, I kind of have a shot list in my head, but I'll always get stuff that I know will make a video or make an episode or something. So if I'm getting B-roll, like you said, I'm getting brand stuff. We have a bunch of sponsors for the TV show. I have to get stuff for tangle-free, like I have my own agenda, and so it's like I know the things that I want to get. And like you said, like if if if I know I've got like my establishing shots, I've got brand stuff, I've got all these things, then it's like I'm kill shot mode. 70 to 200, I'm as tight as I can possibly get. I'm sitting there and I'm I mean, like, I'm tensed up, I'm making sure that I'm getting everything.

SPEAKER_01: 29:08

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 29:09

Yeah, and like you said, like, yeah, if it's if a Drake pintail comes in, I'm making sure I'm on that sucker, and it's like I you can kind of start to to have fun. Like, that's when I have just as much fun filming birds, filming hunts as I do shooting. There's times where like I'll we'll sh like everybody'll shoot their birds, and I'm like, I'm good. Like, I don't I don't feel much more rewarding in a way.

SPEAKER_01: 29:32

It is well, because I can go back to it. You get to be part of that duck's life a little bit more, or goose or whatever it is, it's just you're embracing it longer, and then you're done, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 29:42

Well, yeah, and to another point on that, like that's why I don't post a ton of kill shot videos. I'll cut it off before the kill shot because the amount of exposure that I get on a bird just flying or landing, I don't violate guidelines when I do that. So, like, Facebook doesn't suppress my stuff. Facebook's the most traffic that I get. I'll get a million to a million and a half views a month just on birds flying and landing and swimming.

SPEAKER_01: 30:12

Dude, you're about ready to win an award from like the United Group of Bird Society uh international. I'm in some birding. I bet, bro, because I've seen like we have this this one special place down at Merritt Island uh page that we follow. And I really enjoy like during the off season, even during season, these unique birds like the skimmers or whatever it might be that these these, and of course, you know, all of us as duck hunters. If you don't know this tip, follow all the birding websites. So a lot of people uh post this shit post this stuff is really quickly. But but I enjoy watching the creativity.

SPEAKER_03: 30:53

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SPEAKER_01: 31:23

And like the different animals, right? Yeah, and there's no way that people of that society don't look at your stuff and just be like, all right, listen, um, David Attenborough's calling you tomorrow. And uh we're gonna have a talk.

SPEAKER_02: 31:38

No, there's a lot of people that I know in my area that are like die hard birders because in my area, so we host the largest weekend birding here. So there's people there's people from, I mean, if you go to any wildlife area, it's like birding trail number whatever, and it's like there's a whole list of people flying here from Denmark, the Netherlands, Australia. I mean, you name it. There's people here for like three weeks. I think it's in March, the end of March, maybe, but it's called the Biggest Week in Birding, and you cannot go anywhere around here without there just being birders everywhere. Isn't that kind of cool, dude? I mean, really, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:22

Let me ask you this, and this might be a little Theo Vaughn, but like, do the people that like love cardinals, do they have like cardinal shirts and they fight with the Blue Jay people and stuff like that? And then you get anybody walks around the crow t-shirt. You like, dude, they're kind of a uh what do you call those? Um um what's the word I'm looking for? Uh anybody with a crow t-shirt would be uh like um who's who are the people that paint their fingernails and do all emo. Yeah, they're like they're like, dude, definitely an emo.

SPEAKER_03: 32:50

Edgar Allen Poe. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 32:52

You start to classify people by the bird shirt that they wear, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 32:56

I was gonna say I'm sure there is. I don't get caught up in it.

SPEAKER_01: 32:59

You walk down the street, you're like, see my pet.

SPEAKER_02: 33:03

You know, it's go ahead. No, you it's just like there's it gets too crowded, and they're at all the wildlife areas, so like I I don't get involved in it. It was actually I forgot about birding week one year, and uh I was building this this little boat out as a bass fishing boat, and I was making a video on it, and I was gonna go bass fish on Lake Erie in this little 12-foot boat that I was building, and so I was testing it in one of the marshes, and I mean this little 12-foot boat, and it does like 35 miles an hour with a 20-horse outboard on it. And I didn't I didn't see anybody there, and I was like, I'm just gonna go test this out real quick. So, I mean, I'm 260, I'm a big dude, and I'm in a 12-foot little tin can going 35 miles an hour through the bars. I was on the plug, like riding it, like some Arkansas type stuff, yeah. And uh, I come flying out of these cat out of these cattails, and I look over, and there's like 400 birders out there, and I'm flying past them, and they're all like looking at me, yelling at me, and all this stuff. And I'm like, what is going on? I'm like, oh shit, it's the biggest week in birding, and I am flying through the marsh in this tiny little boat. I was I was I was like, you gotta be kidding me, dude.

SPEAKER_03: 34:21

I could just see you like ending up on the local news channel.

SPEAKER_02: 34:24

Like I thought somebody was gonna put me on a birding page like this dickhead was out here on a picking up all the birds and stuff, and it's like, but I went back into the marsh and I kicked up all the ducks for them so that at least they could get something. But it was like, yeah, they were all lining this dike wall that's basically between the marsh and the lake, and I just didn't see any of them. I dropped that boat in, I started flying out there, and I was like, Oh, you gotta be kidding me. Well, look, it's funny.

SPEAKER_01: 34:54

If you're listening to this and give half a shit about what he's talking about, you want to know like what makes it such a big spectacle there. Like, is there certain is it just a super flyway? Is it like habitat habitat, certain unique birds? What is it? Because that sounds cool as hell.

SPEAKER_02: 35:10

It's yeah, so it's the migration. This is like the biggest stop for I the birders hate it. I call them Tweety Birds because I I don't really get into it. I I'm a waterfowl guy, I like seeing swans and I like seeing the ducks, geese, you know, all that stuff. I don't really care about the little birds, but there's like you know, all sorts of the little birds, like shorebirds, whatever, yeah, whatever they are. I don't even know the tufted whatever's and cross bills, warblers. Apparently, there's a ton of warblers and some sort of tufted something that everybody gets ramped up about. But I mean, you go anywhere, and it's like there will be 400 people sitting at like one person's house, this random person's house. Somebody drove by and this little bird is in a tree, and they get pissed because people are stopping by looking in their front, like they're in their yard. These birders don't care. But it's just it's nuts. Like it is it's it's really good for our community. I'm not gonna say it's not because they come, they stay in our hotels, they eat our at our restaurants, they get gas at our gas stations, you know. Like, I have nothing against them, it's just not something that I am into. Even as somebody that loves shooting birds with the camera, I'd like I like the ducks because I'm a duck.

SPEAKER_01: 36:34

Yeah, but but the point being, I was going with the and I'm sorry that we went down that whole hole of that, but it's just that there's a big point to what you were saying about why you choose to not post the kill shots, yeah. Because what you're doing by doing that is in at least in my eyes, is that you are showing your professionality at what what you're best at. And I think it has it doesn't have to do with the kill shot. That's the hunter, right? Your kill shot as the videographer is to put that animal in its most beautiful, majestic way that we see it, so the public can see also from like a just a algorithm standpoint and just the gener the general Ike farted, dude. It's bad.

SPEAKER_03: 37:26

Oh, geez.

SPEAKER_01: 37:27

Ike, oh man, sorry, it's brutal. We always we always bring the reality here. It it's one hell of a lot. And then Ike just farted a big old stinky fart.

SPEAKER_03: 37:37

You're you're on a numbers game, though, from just looking at the uh general public that aren't hunters, unfortunately. And then uh from the algorithm, I mean, it would make more sense to me, like that way we get more traction, you know. That's smart.

SPEAKER_01: 37:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 37:52

And I mean, like, it's cool to see the numbers and stuff, but at the same time, like I don't want the perception of every duck hunter to be that we're just murderers, yeah. I want I want other people to realize that like we see the beauty, and that's why I like capturing these birds. I capture the beauty of the birds and everything that we like about it. I mean, like, we wouldn't donate to Delta Waterfowl and Ducks Unlimited if we didn't care about these birds and their habitat and like seeing them thrive. Yeah, and then it's also as a duck hunter, like you're out there, like when you're hunting, you don't get to see these birds land and act the way that they do in the water. So these next two to three months that I'm chasing these birds around, it's like I see them in their purest natural form. Yeah, and it's I can capture that, I can show it to people, and it doesn't just appeal to duck hunters, it appeals to people that like birds or they just or they just like ducks and they don't like chase after them with a camera or binoculars or whatever. It's like it it just makes me feel better about like not always like making a dramatic kill shot, and like that's that's I let Sean post those. He's he's the killer. He can I send them to him and I'm like, here you go, and he posts them. But it's like it I don't know. I I will post kill shots, obviously. I do it like I do it in reels and stuff, but it just is a numbers game, it's cool to see it like reach the masses, but I've also like I've had super cool conversations with people that just started from them seeing like a bluebill fly through the decoys. Like, oh, where are you from? Like, oh, I live in Washington, we don't see these bluebills anymore. And it's like you know, that kind of stuff. It's like would I have those conversations with people if I'm just sh like posting birds dying every time?

SPEAKER_01: 39:50

Well, probably not. And let me air real quick this is imagine you're watching that and you're filming that, and some this bluebill beautiful Drake comes flying through the Spread right, and you have the right equipment and right uh target shooting, I would say, as a as a videographer, to say that was special to him. Bam! I've got this slow motion of this beautiful Drake coming through the spread versus a shot of let's say the sun is facing you and it's or it's cloudy day, that kind of thing, and this bird that's black just kind of goes through the spread. Right. That creativity and the attention to detail, I think, is so important. You know, I mean, Tristan, you hear me saying it all the time, but like if we get, and I know your same way, Brian's, as soon as we find out the way that we've got things set up today that we can't get the sun at our back for videoing, because I mean let's face it.

SPEAKER_03: 40:47

Or if it's just super cloudy, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 40:50

Let's face it, I mean, bluebird day at your back, it you can get some amazing shots of these birds, you know what I mean. But um, but no, I just think it's it's it's it's important to you know think about that. I think about those things when I watch videos of of these of yourself, um, and all these other greats that we talk about all the time. And that creativity part to me is so like a like the average person doesn't see it, they just watch it and go, Oh, that was badass. But they don't realize, like I was telling you, Tristan, like that the whole planet earth thing. I go, Did you know that that look look took like seven, ten, thirteen years, whatever, to get some of those shots? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's I mean, they just watched it and said, Oh, we love the penguins, right? You know what I mean? Whatever, but yeah, but you don't know what you don't know, but yeah, exactly. Yeah, but no, that's that's what I love now that I'm learning more, and Tristan helps me learn more about the videography side, at least I from the outside looking in, and and I just have more respect for those those moments, those shots, and those things in videography.

SPEAKER_02: 41:59

Yeah, like when you go on, you get these like perfect shots, it is like going out and shooting a limit, it's like shooting a bull can. It's like it's you get a rush that's like I mean, you shoot a bird, and it's like, oh yeah, the moment's over in what two minutes. You shoot the bird, dog goes and gets it, brings it back, you're holding it, and that's like, all right, well, that was cool. There's times where I'm sitting out in this marsh down the street from my house, there's 1500 pintails out there, they're landing all around me. All I'm doing is just watching birds for hours, three, four hours. I'm getting these shots, and it's like I get to live in the moment a lot more. It's you know, super peaceful, and I I get to realize that pintails are the number one pickiest bird to land. So if you kill pintails, you win because I've seen them in like their most natural, calm habitat, and they still will circle 15 times. No kidding. Oh, dude, it's wild. I'll send you some videos because it's like they just will not stop.

SPEAKER_03: 43:03

You know, it's funny, funny you bring that up because so, like, where we hunt in northeast Arkansas, like, and it's just I mean, I I really like 20 miles this way, it's probably not that way. 20 miles that way, it's probably not that way. But for whatever reason, where we hunt at, there, there's just a ton of pentails. I mean, like, literally, we just hunted there like last weekend, and on I guess that was Sunday morning, or no, Saturday morning, I bet we saw, I don't know, we didn't kill anything, but I bet we saw like I don't know, 1500, 2000 ducks, right? And I bet 90% of them were pentails. And they all just can kill anything. Yeah, no, don't don't work, don't do anything, flag on point A to P point B. You look up and you hear them whistling or whatever, and you see these like bowling pins, and you're like, Yeah, here you go.

SPEAKER_02: 43:52

Yeah, and they just keep flying.

SPEAKER_03: 43:53

Yeah, no, they are really finicky, and thankfully, over the years, like we've been been able to catch some of those days for whatever reason, they just want to do it, you know, for no reason. I mean, just one of those days, and man, it's special. They're cool, they're not you know, people have this like affinity with the mallard and you know, whatever, widgen and other things, but I think pentails are one of my favorite just because of how elusive they are and how cool they are. It's almost like to me, I feel like they're just like this majestic duck, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 44:27

Yeah, well, and like there's also that kind of for the longest time you can only shoot one of them, you know, and it's like you know, you get one to do it, and you're like, Oh, that was so cool. Like, it's yeah, and when they're fully plumed out like that, it's like they're hard to beat, man. Like, that's that's a really cool looking duck, but then you also like you see them and they won't finish, and they're just so finicky, and that's like you start to realize how hard they actually are to kill.

SPEAKER_03: 44:55

Yeah, and I wonder why I I guess it's just their biology or whatever. Well, I mean, they say they're real finicky about their breeding, too, right? So, I mean, maybe they're just finicky about everything. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 45:05

I hope so because we don't need any like crazy. I mean, the hybrids are cool, but it's like you know how many at what point are we not gonna have true black ducks and true true mallards?

SPEAKER_01: 45:17

You know, it's like well, they're almost gone and on the well, fly away.

SPEAKER_03: 45:21

With uh I want to it's a good thing to good thing to get on, but like the pentails though, like apparently where they breathe, like they're real uh that's part of the reason why it's such a challenge with getting their population up, I guess, is because they're so finicky on where they'll even breed at. Oh, if the conditions aren't like perfect, they're just like, nope, we're not doing it this year.

SPEAKER_01: 45:40

Yep, yeah, they will, and they'll go to re-establish where other ducks will just fly over to another pond or yeah, waterway or something. Or I mean, honestly, there's ducks. I think it would blow a lot of people's minds if they realized where hens, like hen mallards, for example, where they lay their eggs. Yeah, I mean, because you would think that okay, it's always gonna be by the edge of the water. No, no, dude, no, not at all. Like, I've watched them rake fields up there in Canada and in the potholes and stuff like that, and you can't see any water. I mean, there might be moist, I don't know, but you don't, it's like a uh desert of marshland, you know what I mean? And all of a sudden these ducks are flying up in the air, and you're like, Oh, well, they kind of hide when they have have babies, you know. I mean, I mean, they really do hide it out, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 46:32

I got a funny, funny story, quick one. Um, so I I bass fish a ton in the spring. Okay, and there's uh these little marinas by our house, like private marinas. Anything that's navigable water, you can go in there, you can fish. Well, I go, I got this honey hole, and I was in there one day and I was I was fishing, and I'd seen this older lady. She walked out her back door and she went to the front, and like three minutes later, I just heard this like blood curdling scream. I'm like, I cannot leave here without going and seeing one because she's like 70, you know. Yeah, so I get off the boat, I go up to the front, and uh I'm like, I'm so sorry to be on your property, but I heard you scream and I just wanted to make sure you're okay. And she was like, You will not believe it. She's like, I was weeding my garden or like my my shrub area, and a hen mallard came flying in my face out of the shrubs. She was sitting on a nest there. She like looked and she's like, There, there's a nest in there. So it was like a bunch of rock with uh like a little area in like a turnaround driveway. Uh-huh. Bunch of rock and some shrubs, and this thing. She was just trying to pick some weeds, and it came and flew right at her face. And uh her name is Patty, she's a sweet lady. I think she passed away, but she has a honey hole for bass fishing.

SPEAKER_01: 47:48

Wow, wow. Well, and I'll tell you in the urban mallard regard, you know. Um, I don't know if anybody's listening to this is familiar with Jacksonville, where Bay Meadows Road is, but you know, uh, we used to live down in that area, and we all went to church one morning, I think, and we went to breakfast afterwards, and we were off Bay Meadows Road. I mean, halfway between that and Southside, so it's not like one way or the other, right? Between 95 and Southside, and we stop at this place and have breakfast or whatever, and we turn around and we're walking down the sidewalk next to a building, and there's all this grass piled up and everything. And man, you couldn't even see her. She was sitting right there. Remember that? Yeah, dude, that mallard was sitting there, and I'm like, This is the craziest shit I've ever seen. I mean, like, it'd be one thing if you were like, say, on a community, right? Because then, okay, yeah, those are the like we have out here, you know. I've got these mallards that you know, half of them stay, half of them leave. And but they're local ducks, you know. I mean, they've urbanized and that kind of thing. Where this duck was, bro, like like I don't know. There wasn't anything around water wide, like for hundreds and hundreds of yards.

SPEAKER_02: 49:01

No, it's crazy where they end up. I mean, the same thing with the geese down here. Like, we we get all the James Bay geese, and they really don't go past here. Like, once they will not really go past the Great Lakes area, they might make it down like to southern Ohio. Southern Ohio is a really good goose hunting, but like they just kind of stay here. But it is like if you go to any golf course, any cemetery, it's just they are piled up. You cannot fit any more geese anywhere, and they'll still find a place to be. It's nuts. No kidding. Oh, yeah, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_03: 49:37

Uh shoot, what was I gonna say about the you were talking? Oh, the Urban Mallard thing with uh, you know, you were talking about them uh, you know, interbreeding, kind of being the death of like black ducks, you know, a lot of people like, and I don't even think I realized this when we first started hunting, but like we'd we're partial to Florida just because we spend so much time duck hunting down there, and that's where we kind of started duck hunting. But like the model duck is the same thing as the black duck, it's a subspecies of mallard that it's its own thing, and they're running into the same thing down there, you know, like people being concerned, you know, same same exact issue, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 50:12

Yeah, well, and like up here, I don't know if you guys have seen the studies that like I think du or some partner of du did a study on the mallards in the Great Lakes. And because there's so many of the like the like game farms up here, because they're because we don't have wild upling, so like there's a bunch of people that like they will raise pheasants and chuckers, and the pheasants and chuckers don't make make it very long if they don't get shot, but the same same kind of people will also pen raise mallards and do these like trained pond hunts where like yeah, you know, any corporate guy will show up, doesn't know how to shoot a shotgun as a big thing.

SPEAKER_01: 50:50

It's like a high fencedier hunt, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 50:52

Pretty much, yeah. And so there's been so much uh interbreeding between the game farm mallards and the wild mallards that now the when I saw the study, and I think the study's maybe a year or two old now, it was that 55% of the mallards in the Great Lakes region have game farm genes in them. Wow, and so that that has like a big uh influence on how far they migrate because they're just they have shorter wings now, they've got shorter bills, and they just they're fat, you know. Like everybody's oh, we want to shoot those fat green heads, and it's like yeah, shoot them because they're they 55% of them are you know, Asian carp greenheads. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. It's like they they they become a the game farm mallards have become an invasive species, and now it's starting to affect uh the mallards. So it's like we have mallards up here that you know they just don't want to fly, or they they can hold more fat than a normal duck, or you know, and that's part of you know the migration thing that we've seen up here is that uh the weather has changed, it just that we don't freeze up like we used to. So these birds have uh so much food, they have so much water, they have no reason to leave, they have no stress. And even if we do freeze up, I have pictures and video of sitting on a river or sitting on the edge of the lake, and these mallards eating minnows in chad. So it's like they adapt, and it's like they just because they can't eat corn and you know beans in a field, they don't care, they'll eat invertebrates, they'll eat zebra mussels, they'll eat anything we've got here. And if it doesn't the water doesn't freeze, they have so much access to it. It's isn't that funny versus the stereotype?

SPEAKER_01: 52:43

Isn't that I mean really people don't realize what ducks actually eat. If you're in the normal duck hunter, you don't know anything about this, you're just like, Yeah, bro, no matter what. Let me tell you something. A wood duck is the best tasting duck ever. Or an acorn feeding mallard is the best thing. I love it. Every time a videographer, like I saw a hen mallard video where somebody had an incredibly high quality shot of it eating a leopard frog, and I was like, Yes, yeah, yes, spread the word.

SPEAKER_03: 53:17

It was on a Delta magazine, I think. But but we've seen it maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 53:21

We've seen it like I thought it was we've seen it like firsthand, Tristan. We've literally seen it firsthand with ringnecks.

SPEAKER_03: 53:31

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 53:32

I mean, ringnecks in Florida are more invertebrate eating. Ringnecks last year, like during the veteran hunt in Arkansas, it dealt thunder, dude. Those are rice eating freaking ringnecks, it's just what they ate, you know. So, I mean, we can go down that whole rabbit hole of what they eat and what they taste like, all that kind of stuff. But I just think it's interesting that people in general just go like, yeah, man, wood ducks always the best, yeah, or whatever. I mean, I think there's a generalization of which ones obviously that versus a buffalo head. All right, okay, I can see it, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 54:08

But yeah, well, and there's like, I mean, because I post so much of the diver stuff, people like just rip me apart, and they're like, Has this guy ever seen a puddle duck before? And it's like, what people don't understand is up here, I've had mallards that taste like crap because all they do is eat shed and zebra mussels. But then I I've had bluebills that have been sitting up on Lake St. Clair eating grass and you know, whatever is under there, wild celery and whatever they can find that tastes better than mallards, tastes like a wood duck. You know, it's like you you're you're playing a you're just gambling. It's like you don't know what this bird's been eating, but I've opened up mallards and I'm like, I'm not even cleaning this thing, it smells so hot.

SPEAKER_03: 54:50

Yeah, you know, it's funny like you bring that up. Like, I've cooked a uh pentail and a ringneck the exact same way. It was like a Steve Renoa meat eater recipe with like it's uh some kind of mold wine deal and pears and all kinds of it was really damn good, but I could not tell the difference between the ringneck and the pentail, and it just goes around yeah, well, and I'll tell you guys this.

SPEAKER_01: 55:14

So this morning I was looking out, and I've got about a 15-acre like lake out up out back. Okay, and it's it's in a neighborhood, but I mean we get a lot of ducks here. I've got probably, I mean, during the summer, 65 to 70 mallards just hanging around that yeah, and the hens all root. I mean, I usually get like four to five hens that you know are having nests around, they bring the babies around, and so I get to watch them through their whole pluming cycle, all that stuff. And to me, like, dude, I'm like a student, you know, like I'm watching them all the time. Like, I remember that when the light went off the first time I saw these hens, and what happened was is we had a rain, and I've got like a wooded kind of back back hill and all this stuff leading down to the lake, and all the mallards started coming up through my property right after it rained, and they were like as if I just threw corn out. They were, and I was like, What are they eating? They're eating worms because the because encrust or whatever larva that's coming up because it got rained out, and I was like, son of a bitch, look how smart, you know. But I watch all this stuff. Well, this morning I looked down and I saw probably about like I don't know, half a dozen Canadas and probably like 15 mallets, and they were all along the bank of my yard, and they were all butt up, they just kept butt up, butt up, but I thought, man, that's cool as shit. They're all down there button up, and I didn't throw corn down there. I'm like, what is going on? Well, I took Ike down there this evening to look, and dude, I'm gonna take a video of it. Actually, I'll send it to you, Brian, just as proof, dude. All these little bitty muscle shells, I mean the size of a pencil eraser to a dime size, uh laying all in the bed. You can just I'm I'm talking there's probably 50 to 100 of them. Okay, just where and that's what they were eating this morning, dude. They were down there, and how they pop that shit open like a damn um a peanut and get that out of there. I don't know how they do it, but but I just thought to me that was cool as shit to see that this morning. I was like, it's a feeding frenzy. What are they eating? They'll eat whatever they can get. Yeah, it's neat shit.

SPEAKER_02: 57:35

Yeah, they don't care if it's corn or they don't care if it's zebra mussels. If they can eat it, that's what they're gonna eat. I mean, up here it's like we have such a big we had a really big bed of like yeah, not clams, I'm sorry, they were mussels of like uh uh uh underwater aquatic uh plants. So like my area, then they dredged it and it got real sandy, and there's not as much of it anymore. Kind of the same thing happened in Lake St. Clair during like the market hunting stuff, there was a bunch of canvas backs up there that would just eat this wild celery, and that's why everybody loved the canvas backs. And so, like, obviously, you know, you get bigger boats, more boats, that sort of thing, and it just kind of kills off everything. People start dredging and dumping and that sort of thing. So, where these birds used to eat all this underwater aquatic uh plants, they're now eating zebra mussels because now that's here. So then you start to find out like where these zebra mussels are sitting and like where the minnows are, and you can kind of pattern the birds now based on that, which is kind of interesting. Yeah, so it's it's cool, and then you can kind of like like I shore hunt a lot, that's kind of like where the YouTube stuff has gone, is everybody really likes to see shore hunting divers, so I make a lot of those videos, and I for the life of me I couldn't figure out I'm like, well, the zebra mussels are out there. It's like why are they coming up here? And they're out obviously, there's zebra mussels and stuff that are shallow, and that's what they'll feed on. But I started to learn, uh I started to look it up, and diver ducks will use the sand to help push the zebra mussels and stuff down their gullet. It's gritty, and so they like use that to push it down. I think it helps with digestion and stuff like that. So that's why we were able to like, and we still do shoot a lot of birds on shore because they come up to the sand and feed there.

SPEAKER_01: 59:32

It's like similar to a dove, I guess, or something, maybe. You know, like dove are always like yeah, or like yeah, uh it's they gotta it's in there. Do they have that? I guess they have that little crawl what do you call it little sledgehammer thing crawl going on? Crawl, yeah, whatever it is. Man, that's wild.

SPEAKER_02: 59:49

Yeah, it's it's just cool to like be a student of it, and like you know, like we were talking about, it's like you sit there and film birds or take pictures, or like you said, you're you're walking your dog, right? Yeah. And it's like you can just sit there and watch, and you start like, I would have guessed that they were eating insects or something. It's like, no, they're cracking shells open. It's like it was so cool.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:12

I was just like, I was just shocked when I woke down and I saw these little white little shells everywhere.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:16

Oh, yeah. Crazy. You probably didn't even know that stuff was in that water, did you?

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:20

No, I didn't. And they just they didn't go find it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:24

Yep. For people like, and we're always big on this. We love hunting different areas just to see how different people do things and how ducks act in different areas and what shoot and whatever, you know. What what is it like hunting up there? Like, take everyone through. Because I mean, I think when I think of what's a visual, like hunting divers on a coast, like you know, you guys basically have an ocean, you know, hunting the Great Lakes, but like our experience with that is like coastal brackish or saltwater like marshes, you know. So uh it's just completely that's a completely different animal from what you guys are doing. So just give everyone that visual, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:59

Yeah, it is. So the best way to put it is it's terrifying. It is so we've got the western basin of Lake Erie is the shallowest of all of the Great Lakes. Okay, Lake Erie itself is is the shallowest. I think like the deepest that it gets is somewhere in like the 200-foot range, and that's like way east of me, like Pennsylvania, north uh New York. But then you've got like Lake Michigan. I think Lake Michigan is somewhere around like 900 foot deep at the deepest. So that changes how the wind affects the waves. So in my area, if the wind kicks up real quick, you get these real short, choppy waves. Uh-huh. But they'll grow, obviously. Like it'll be five foot, but the spacing between them is uh less. So like it's really tough to navigate because you can't just ride over these rolling waves like you can in like Lake Ontario, Lake Huron, when you get far far out, Lake Michigan, you know, sort of thing. So my area, it's like you have to be very cognizant of the weather because it can flip on a dime, and when it does, because it doesn't take long for those waves to build, they'll be immediate. Like I've been out layout hunting where it's like, oh, we're hunting this nice like 10 mile an hour south wind, got a nice little chop. Then you're sitting there in the tender boat and you're like, feels like it's going west now. And so you're going from like where you're a mile offshore to now there's 15 miles of water to your west that's building, and before you get everything picked up, your layout boat's getting swamped by three foot waves.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:36

So my gosh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:37

Yeah, it's not so like you have to be very careful, and that's why it's so terrifying because you can be out, everything can be fine. I was filming for a guy last year, and it was like we went out, it was like maybe one foot. We ran out to this island, like nine miles offshore, eight miles offshore, and by the time we were coming back in, we were in seven to nine foot waves, and I was throwing up the whole way back, and it was like that's the kind of stuff that can happen where we're at. Now, that being said, you watch a hundred thousand divers get up and fly, that's cool. That is the cool stuff to see. So, like it's in our area, it's interesting because we have obviously like we're we're north, so we get this like we get we're in the middle of the migration. At some point, we're getting birds, it doesn't matter. It happens calendar, moon cycle, whatever. We will get birds. It's the the vast majority, like the the we get so many diff the variety of birds that we get. So, like we will get sea ducks, we get diver ducks, we get puddle ducks, we get it all. And I think that's what's so cool about where I'm at is that you can go walk into a marsh right on the lake, or you can go 10 miles offshore and layout hunt, or you can boat fly and hunt for divers, and it's just like I love hunting with my dog, so I like to shore hunt a lot. We've gotten gotten away from doing a ton of layout hunting like we were, but it's the best way to beat the pressure, too. So you guys know it's like we've lost hunters overall, but the people that are hunting are hardcore. Yeah, so I see the same people at the boat ramp all the time. Yeah, I'll see the same guides at the boat ramp, we talk, like it creates a community if you're not super like uh this is my area, you know. Yeah, yeah, if you're not an asshole about it, you can make some friends, and it's just it's really helpful because there's times where like we got guys up here that run the duck water boats, and it's like I have rivets in my boat, so I'm not gonna go out and break ice. But if they break ice in front of me, I'll go what's up, guys?

SPEAKER_03: 1:04:58

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SPEAKER_02: 1:05:30

Behind them, you know, like it's so it's it's it's fun that you can do that, but like, yeah, like I guess my point being that there's just so much different stuff that I can do here. We have this massive migration of these James Bay geese. We have tons of divers that come through here. We've got mallards, black ducks, all that sort of thing. Like, it's they're they're here, and it's like you can field hunt geese in the morning and you could lay out hunt divers in the afternoon.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:59

It's like you guys want to hear something.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:02

It's a very overlooked area, dude.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:04

That's yeah, that's really neat.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:06

Listen, I'm watching this. Remember the show I was talking to you about, a little bit history involved. Check this out the canvas back duck, which everybody, if you saw a picture of canvas back, it's probably got a crustacean or a fish going in its mouth, right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:23

I got one right there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:25

Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:26

Oh, heck yeah, yeah. I see them back there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:28

But get guess it was the number one commercialized duck. Yeah, and it would sell, and I don't remember what country that we would ship them over, but they in one shipment sent like I want to say it was something like 30,000 pounds of canvas backs, and they sold back in the 1800s for$25 a pair. Oh my gosh,$25 a pair, bro.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:56

Back then, that would be like equivalent to like probably like$300,000, like$3,000 or something like that. Yeah, for real. It's like super fancy state dinner or something.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:07

But isn't that crazy how we just walk through history and we can go down this in so many avenues? We talk about Indians, we do we can get real crazy on this, but isn't it crazy how these events, these things that happen in life around the globe, the Holocaust, whatever it might be, it's just that isn't it crazy that years go by, right? And then the next generation and the next generation comes on, and then maybe um that many pounds of canvas-backed ducks for$25 a pair. All it is is words to me now. It's not like what it was really doing and really happening during that time, right? Yeah, I mean, I just think live it, yeah. Like you just you just kind of live through, live it out, and and but it becomes a past history, a past memory that was so significant. Um, and like I said, there's a thousand channels for that. Uh how we have just done what we've done as humans. But um, I just found that I was blown away when they said$25 a pair.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:12

Yeah, one point, a one point. I mean, that was I think the I want to say I read I don't know if I read a book about this or I read Steve Rennella's book about the American Buffalo, about how basically it was hunted to extinction extinction almost and all that. And I think they talked about a lot about the canvas back situation in that book, if I remember right, or I read it somewhere else. Really? But um, yeah, I mean that I think that was a part of like why federal limits were put in place, and like I mean, it almost like it population-wise, it was so canvas back, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:47

That's all the market hunting stuff for sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:49

So it was like it was probably like on one of those main like holy cow, let's let's let's let's slow down here because we don't even realize the resources that were if I remember right, there's a lake like or a an area in like the northeast or something where it was at one time like Chesapeake Bay, it might have been that it was Chesapeake Bay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:10

We had uh I think it's when we had um pit boss.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:13

What and tell me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the deal that like that was the place, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:17

And it was the Mecca, still like because of the damage that was done from the overhunting, that still is never no, but they don't say it's from the overhunting, it's from the loss of habitat in the Chesapeake Bay. It's the loss of I don't know what they said, the crustaceans, the fish, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:36

What I'm thinking of is there were still what there were so many of them hunted from this area that they're just they're never gonna be like it's the birds that were imprinted there are not imprinted.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:46

No, and that's how we got talking about whatchamacallit here in Georgia, which is the number one migration spot by numbers of the canvas back duck in America now. What lake?

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:58

Lake Sanclair, Lake Sinclair, or no, sorry, not St. Clair, it's um Lake Seminole. Lake Seminole.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:03

Lake Seminole, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:04

Lake Seminole is the number one, and it was on um there was a dude that mark um mark something, he was like doing the 42 ducks in one season. Yeah, he went to Lake Seminole to get his uh canvas back. But oh really that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:20

I mean, like, yeah, we so we've got this, it's a bridge up in Michigan called the Mackinac Bridge and separates the lower peninsula from the upper peninsula. And uh my buddy was up there like two or three weeks ago, two weeks ago for uh New Year's. We went across the bridge and he's like black with redheads and canvas backs. What it's like it we just you know, it's they get pushed down so late from you know that area that we don't see them. Like I see them at at the uh after the season's over, and that's when I'll be out taking pictures and stuff, and I'll see them everywhere, but we don't get a giant push of them down here, and it's interesting because we'll see bluebills early, we see buffal heads early, and then it's kind of you know, you'll get like the occasional redhead that'll be with them. Then it's like towards the end of our diver migration, we'll get the golden eyes come down. And then it's like the golden eyes are fun because you can shoot six of them, same way you can shoot six buffies, we can only shoot two bluebills, but they're everywhere, and then it's like you may see a canvas back, you might see some redheads, so it's like but we honestly like we'll see more scoters throughout the season than we will canvas backs. No kidding, yeah, surf scopers, surf scoters, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:40

Wow, it's pretty cool. I know I want to hold another one of those, that's for sure. I've only seen one in my life, and my buddy Drew shot it um off the coast of Georgia, and it was a black scouter Drake, and I I just still think it's funny as hell, Tristan called it a candy corn coot. But he's like, But dude, holding that thing was I just couldn't believe how big it was. Yeah, I was like, that's like this.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:06

So that it's blown out now, but like that there's a eider up there, so it's the canvas back, uh long tail, and then the the eider. So I went to Massachusetts. There's a guy, Randy Drago, out there, and he does he layout hunt guides um for sea ducks. So we're like, well, we lay out hunt here all the time, it'd be sweet to go do it on the ocean. That's what we did, and it's like, yeah, we shot SCOTERS, but I went there specifically for a Drake eider, and that thing came in like a goose. I mean, like, they're just so big when they come in. Coolest hunting I've ever done.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:41

Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, we gotta do that, dude. I gotta do it. Yeah, I want to go, I want to go risk my life in Alaska for some king either, dude. For real. See, that's that's where I really do.

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:51

That's where I draw the line. I'm like, some of the shit.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:54

If I go, if I go at my age, if I go right there, I'll just be like, I don't give a damn. Yeah, well, that's that's fine. I'll be like, you know, I'm not going on that trip. At the end of the Titanic, you know, when when Leo Leo uh was DiCaprio, he just gives up while he's sitting there freezing to death. This is a perfect. That's what I would do, bro.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:12

I would just be like so so like okay, go and also kind of going back to what you were talking about with the seven to nine foot, you know, swells or whatever the waves, like I God, there's just some stuff that I'm like, it it the juice ain't worth the squeeze on the sketch on the sketchiness for me. But like, so what kind of boats are y'all running? Because like the reason I'm asking this is like one time we went out mahi fishing off the coast of Florida with our friend, and it was supposed to be like two to four, and ended up being like five to like five to seven seventy. And it was a it was a 30-foot boat, and like it was sketchy, yeah. Like it was not like a fun time. I mean, we were tearing up the Mahi, but it was sketchy. So I'm thinking about like 60 miles. What kind of boats are y'all running out there to get these freaking spots to hunt?

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:03

So I I have a 20-foot deep V. Um, that's like it's perfect for me. Like, I I'm not going out and I it'll take five footers, like I've been had in five footers, but as much as I go out, I get seasick. So I'm not gonna go out in something that's wild.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:21

Like you say it's a V, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:23

So deep V instead of like the Mod V or like a flat bottom, it's a real deep V. It cuts through the waves better and it sits up higher in the water, so you can handle those waves. Yeah, um, most of the guides up here will run like 25 to 28, maybe a 30-foot duckwater. So duckwater makes their boats here in Dover, Ohio, and uh they're like super thick aluminum welded boats that they're a big open cockpit and they can handle, they can break ice and they can do all that stuff. They're really expensive though. Um, so a lot of the guides up here will do that. Most of us that just are doing it for fun, 18 to 21 foot, it's pretty pretty common to be able to go out and be safe. There's people that come up here with mud motors or mud boats and try to go out on the lake. And it's like if it's a flat, calm day, you can take whatever you want out. Like I've gone out um like while I fish and it's been like you know, two mile an hour wind. And I get out there, and then some guy in a 14-foot or 12-foot boat will come out with a six-horse motor on, and it's like we're all three or four miles offshore, so it's like you have those guys, and I did it when I had a I had a 14-foot V-bottom, and I used to do that shit all the time. But you just like you kind of just have to learn it. Like, I because I make the YouTube videos of hunting on the lake, everybody thinks that you know it's easy, and there's days that is easy. And I try not to go out on the days that it's you know terrible or I'm gonna die because that number one, I don't want to wreck my boat, and I don't want to kill the people that I'm with, so it's like I try to be you know cognizant of that when we go out, but we do sketchy stuff too. I mean, like we went and we were layout hunting in 30 mile an hour winds uh two months ago, so it's like we'll do it, but we have we know where to go to be out of the wind and like that sort of thing. So it just comes with experience. I'm not the most experienced guy. There's guys that run their boats. There's probably guys, guys that have run their boat as much this year as I have in the last five years, just the way it goes. I don't do it for a living, but I'm I have enough common sense to watch the weather, know what the weather is gonna do, and know how that affects the the lake as well.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:46

Isn't that so important, Tristan? Like, like, dude, I just had this like salt water to freshwater connection with him as far as like experience, right? I mean, it it's no joke. Reels blow up all the time about if you're a coastal hunter getting your ass beat, you know, with the tide, you know, it can be dangerous. It like that's the number one most important thing is I didn't ever respect the dangerousness of the speed of an outgoing tide. Like, who gives a shit about the incoming tide? But when that sucker starts sucking out, the yeah, you you're not beating Mother Nature, and um, but really just getting stranded is like a benefit, honestly, compared to what could happen. I mean, there's so many times where you know, I mean, just at Williamson Outfitters, man. I mean, about those guys saving that those guys' life on a tide that was going out, and I mean, it takes a lot, it's not like you can just be like, Oh, I'll catch up to them. No, you like you turn the motor on and get over there and get to them because they're getting sucked out to sea or out to the bay or something. So, but I just think it's neat that you know that is such an important part of if you're going to duck hunt anywhere, yeah, anywhere, bro, it's worth your knowledge to pop into a greasy spoon, stop at a hunting shop, whatever you can do. Even with an outfit or just even book with an outfit and learn about how people do it there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:13

Yeah, there'd be like just from this conversation, and not that I'm like ignorant enough to think I could come up there and kill ducks like y'all do, but like I for sure after this conversation, it's like there'd be no way for like a Georgia boy to think they're gonna like go take that on and sh do anything, you know what I mean? And it's not just there, it's you know, we realized that before we ever went and hunted the public timber in Arkansas. We knew that was how I was gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:40

What about when our motor went out when the timber was flooded?

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:43

Gave those guys respect because we you know that we knew we were not gonna have the success that we wanted for a while, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:49

Dude, we were on a rushing river with I mean, it was there was under tow and everything, and this stupid cheap motor I had, which I'll save it. I won't say anything bad about people, but this motor went out, and I immediately, when I went back to my wife, I go, I'm buying a new boat and a new motor. I'm not doing that again. That yeah, I didn't realize how close I was messing. Like, we if I was scared and I have my son in the boat, he was scared too, you know, and it was sketch as shit, and we had no control, zero control. And that's the worst thing is not having control. Well, and the the thing was that you're going with this with this um surface drive, the certain brand, and when you're doing it, and it gives out immediately, you get the back flow of the waves, and we were gonna get sucked under, bro. I mean, I was just like, I'm not, I won't do that again, you know. So, to the point, man, don't we lose duck hunters every year, waterfowl hunters every single year. And it's To mistakes, we can't be careful enough.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:02

Yeah, we do it happens here too. It's uh it's funny that you say that because I was at uh game fair, not this past year, but the year before, and you guys had Billy Campbell on your show. I was talking with him and uh we were talking about like you know where I hunt, and uh he said something about like so where are you guys when you guys are doing all this stuff, how deep is it? And I was like, We're in the shallow part of the lake. I'm like, but if we're layout hunting, we're in like 10, 12, 14 feet of water, and he's like, if I can't step in it, I'm not going in. He's like over three. Over three foot, I'm not doing it. And Dennis was in the corner, he's just shaking his head. He's like, uh-uh, not for me.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:42

I I I want to say we had a similar conversation about alligators in Florida.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:46

Yeah, he's like, hell no, babe. He was like, no, me too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:50

I'm not doing it. Yeah, I the reason I live where the cold hurts my face is we don't have here and I don't have alligators.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:59

Isn't it really funny how oblivious Florida duck hunters are? And I'm not taking anything away from Louisiana and Mississippi, all the other like we really truly didn't think twice about it. No, like unless now we weren't hunting. You saw a big one and you had to go out and retrieve a duck, then you're like, all right, the other little Pac-Man guy just smoked one of our ducks, and now I'm basically going out to challenge him, and I can't shoot him, or I will get a ticket.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:29

Now it's it's a it's a different deal with a dog, though. We weren't hardly ever hunting dogs.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:34

No.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:34

So now if people down there hunting with dogs, I mean, it's like, you know, unless you're hunting like true puddle duck conditions where it's like eight, ten, twelve inches, most people aren't running their own.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:45

Well, unless it really the only time you have a true gator threat is during early teal. Because all those times when the water temperature gets down, they get lethargic.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:56

They just in North Florida, not in South Florida.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:00

Well, you got a point.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:01

Yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:03

And they're probably the same way in Africa. All right, be like, all right, we're going out today. We're gonna we're gonna hunt this certain white-tailed, long-tailed, pin-tailed, freaking greenhead.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:16

Yeah, uh Ramsey Russell probably killed it. Campus back, greenhead duck.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:21

And we're going out there, but today we're using three decoys, and we recommend you not getting out of the blind because there's a thing what we call a Nile crocodile. Yeah, and a Nile crocodile happens to be as wide as your house, and as long as you're freaking as long as your truck and um yeah, yeah, that's that's I'm just gonna stay up here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:43

I'm good.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:44

But but let's face it to each their own, man. Every environment, you know, right? Hey, let's face it though. Duck hunters, we're all so crazy that if there's a duck to be found, I don't give a shit if it's on the Nile River, I don't care if it's in the middle of the Serengeti and there's lions looking at you, bro. Duck hunters will try. Yeah, they will try, it don't matter. It could be a deer, and a guy's like, you know, I see a pack of lions over there. I'm not hunting that deer. Duck hunter would be like, Did you see the band on that some bitch?

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:13

Yeah, I'm seeing like if I was gonna come down there, I'd just like not bring waiters and I'd just bring my boat. Everything I do, I'm doing with my boat. You guys can get out if you want. I'll still shoot ducks, but I'm just not getting out of the boat.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:26

That's right. Fair enough. Yeah, well, man, you know, I obviously want to be respectful of your time. I know you got kids and stuff. It's nine nine o'clock at night. Which first of all, I didn't realize y'all have Eastern time up there. I was because we were going back and forth uh on the time, and I was like, damn, I didn't realize y'all were on Eastern time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23:45

Yeah, yeah, but um, yeah, we're like I'm probably four hours east of the time change.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:51

Oh shit, no kidding.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:53

Okay, yep. Um he's got a full text full from his wife, just like, well, you get your ass down here.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:00

No, all the kids are asleep. I helped them get to bed before I came up here. So good audio.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:06

Good deal, man. Well, tell tell everyone, Brian. You know, I feel like we could talk for like four more hours, but yeah, bro. And we'll have to do it again. But tell everybody where uh they can get in touch with you and just follow your content and all the stuff you do, man.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:17

Yeah, so on YouTube, it's too many hobbies. Um, do a bunch of hunting and fishing stuff up here, um, camera stuff, whenever I basically whatever I want. That's why it's just too many hobbies. Um on Instagram, uh Brian Lthorpe Media is the best place to find uh my pictures and videos. Um, same thing on Facebook, either friend me, um, just my personal page, or you can follow the media page and uh on TikTok, I'm just Brian Lthorpe, and it's most of the same stuff that you'd see.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:50

Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much for your time again. It was great talking with you, and uh, I'm sure we could do this all night.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:56

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. No, I appreciate you guys having me on. It's been a lot of fun, and uh yeah, I'll I'm sure I'll come back anytime you can.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:03

Yeah, dude, I can't I can't wait to talk about more stuff with you. I mean, you you're the kind of guest that makes it easy, and we appreciate you taking the time out of your night tonight.

SPEAKER_02: 1:25:10

Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks, guys. All right, bro. Appreciate it.