"Interpretating" life through the basketball lens of Jon Perry.

Jon Perry is the Rules Interpreter for the Utica Board of Woman's Basketball. He has experienced the loss of two siblings, and has found ways to demonstrate resilience that we should ALL learn from. Jon is the lead for an annual Cancer-based basketball tournament & chooses to put himself where few dare; in the middle of the limelight designed to make all around him BETTER.

Through traumatic experiences he has found laughter, love, and a path full of dedication for family that is simply refreshing to hear.

Do you believe that modeling excellence is important? Don't miss this one!

What is important is that which is good and that which is right. 
Carpe' Diem peeps.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi, my name is John Perry, and you're listening to Das Fulmonti, the good news podcast.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

Good day to you, and welcome to Dasful Monte, the good news podcast, Central New York's only podcast dedicated to nothing but good news and the celebration of what is good and what is right. This podcast is brought to you by the Oxford Road Professional Group in the Hartford, New York. Thank you, Bill Burrow. This segment represents season number four, episode number one. Let's go for a walk. My friends, we are live on a very special edition Saturday, and yes, we are back at the Oxford Road location. A lot of things to talk about today, a lot of things to explore, and this is really going to be special for a variety of reasons. First of all, we are on the heels of what I am considering one of the most major upsets in cows basketball. We will talk about that and we'll talk about some of the outcomes of um what happens when you lose uh a 54-game win streak. I'm not happy about it, can you tell? But at any rate, this morning, one of the things that I really, uh really appreciate is for the world to get to know people who I have gotten to know. And I'm very selective of people who I invite on this podcast because, from my perspective, they really have to bring something special. And I'm not just talking professionally, I'm also talking personally. And at the same time, I also want to make sure that the community, not just our local community, but those literally around the country who listen to this podcast are aware of things that we do in central New York that may rise to the level of what we call special. So our guest this morning is a gentleman by the name of Mr. John Perry. John, how are you doing this morning? I'm doing great, Doc. How are you? I'm doing just fine. John made sure he stayed in the circle of trust this morning by bringing me a donut. I'm not sure how the German's going to react to that, but it's a good thing we're running around the basketball court, at least I am in a couple hours so I can take care of that thing. But uh well, first of all, um, John, how long have you and I known each other about at this point? Probably five or six years. Five or six years, and he's still talking to me, so we have to we have to uh And vice versa. We're uh gonna have some fun this morning. So uh if you don't mind, we're gonna start with just a little bit of history. Uh where are you from? Where were you born? I was born in Utica, New York. Utica, New York. And for people who are outside of the area, how does John Perry describe Utica, New York?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Small hometown community with people that care about each other, the community, and how it's perceived.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

I believe you and I have determined that I am your elder, yes? Uh, by I believe a couple of weeks. Well, we didn't have to add that. But anyway, so I asked that because do you remember when Utica was called the Handshake City? I do. Amazing. Do you remember a radio station called WTLB? I do. My father used to be a radio engineer at WTLB way back in the day. I don't know if you also remember folks, especially those who are of an age, there used to be a a uh a family farm report with Ed Slusargik, which aired at six o'clock in the morning at WTLB. This was the guy who had a cow, a toy. And whenever he wanted to talk about the price of wheat or the price of corn, he would say, Well, what do you think about the price of this boss? And the cow would go, eh. Well, this is what happens when you're raised in Bridgewater, John. You get excited about a fake cow. So you I wasn't up at six o'clock in the morning. So fair enough. So you were born and raised in Utica. What part of Utica? West Utica. And for those who don't know historically, what ethnicities were indigenous to West Utica when you were growing up?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Uh mostly Polish, um, some Italians, Irish, mostly Polish-Irish. And what is your family's ethnic history? Um, God. English, Irish, Scottish, Well, Welsh.

SPEAKER_04 4:32

Well, I heard two things that explain part of your demeanor. We'll get to this, folks. Uh, Scottish and Welsh. Uh, my wife's aunt was very proud of her Welsh uh history, and she made it clear that uh the Welsh never forget. So I know that for a fact. My mother never forgets. So uh how many brothers and sisters? Three sisters. And where are you in the mix? Number two. Number two. Talk about your parents.

SPEAKER_01 5:02

My dad was a hard-working construction man, uh, worked construction for most of his life. Um, unfortunately, he was born with three kidneys. Two had to be have be removed um early on in life at the age of 13, so he was only living with one rust after that. And um the construction was getting to him, and the doctor told him he had to stop working construction, so he went to work for um tri-state industrial laundry as a uh root salesman. My mom graduated second in her class from Whitesboro High School, and uh unfortunately her parents couldn't afford to send her to college back in the day, so she wasn't able to go. Um so she worked at uh believe it or not, she started out at Utica Mutual Insurance Company and um then you know raised a family and uh went back to work at uh the motor vehicle and then from there Notre Dame High School and on to after my dad died on to the city of Utica with Steve DeMille and uh moved with Steve DeMio to Mohawk Valley Edge when he went there. He was special, huh? Yeah, he was. He was a good man.

SPEAKER_04 6:16

Absolutely. And uh in Utica, so where did you go to grade school? Sacred Heart. Sacred Heart. Catholic school over in uh over on uh Nyaf. What did you do for Good Friday yesterday, John? Let's see what kind of Catholic you are. Uh unfortunately I had to work. Oh, well, so you crossed the barrier yesterday. I did. Uh fair enough. Uh and so after grade school, where'd you go to high school? Uh Notre Dame High School. Notre Dame. Do you recommend that students attend Notre Dame? Um at this point, I'd uh rather plead the fifth. Fascinating approach, Mr. Perry. Uh we will circle back to that. And uh John, as you may or not know people, uh, which one of his staples when he r comes into a room is everybody looks for Notre Dame apparel. Now that is not specific to Notre Dame High School. That is specific to the Fighting Irish, the firing artist, being coached by.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

Well, where are we talking? Are we talking basketball, football, coach? Of course. All right. If we're talking basketball, coached by Neil Ivey.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Yes, yes, God is good, pardon the pun. And uh so, which is a probably a a good segue to did you play any sports in high school at Notre Dame?

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Uh, I played basketball and baseball and football. What position did you play in each? Uh in basketball, I was a guard. In baseball, I was an outfielder, and in football, I was a defensive back.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

And I know with the the picture that we'll post on social media, you can't tell how how tall John is. So how tall are you? You were playing guard. On a good day, I'm 5'7. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

It's interesting because I was listed at 5'8, though, because they always give you an extra inch.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

I wasn't aware of that. Wasn't aware of that at all. Uh, yesterday I was literally literally on the phone with a woman from uh Sherburn and I challenged her daughter a few weeks ago. They're doing a fundraiser for their basketball program, and actually I'll see them in a couple hours. And I said, Well, there's got to be a way that I can have some fun versus just writing a check. So I challenged her daughter to a foul shooting contest, and I told John about it, and then of course I felt absolutely worthless about uh this particular competition uh because you apparently are one impressive foul shooter. Uh, how many shots have you made in a row from the foul line, John? 147. That is just ridiculous. May you know what I'm thinking, I'm when I see her today, I'm gonna maybe get injured and say I reserve the right as the donor to put in a sub. We'll see how that goes. How about the other sports? Uh, what about them? What's positions?

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Uh football, defensive back, cornerback safety.

SPEAKER_04 9:11

At 5'8? At 5'7. Wow. All right, you're a hitter. Gotta be.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Yeah, I could go up and get and get them with that.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

There's no question. That's Roddy Lot territory. You started playing with those guys in safety. That's awesome. Your favorite sport was and why? Baseball. Always has been, always will be. What position? Uh, center field. Oh, he's got some speed. Do you follow any collegiate or professional baseball teams?

SPEAKER_01 9:40

New York Yankees.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

You're a Yankees fan? Yes. What would you say to people who say it must be nice to be able to buy a pennant? I would tell them that uh if you build it, they will come. Speaking of which. Field of Dreams. Of course. One of my favorite movies of all time. And I know you love that movie. I wouldn't I'm even gonna argue, John, probably for one of the same reasons I do, and that is for one of the ending scenes when he sees his father.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Did you watch the professional baseball game that started in the field of dreams? I did. How hilarious was it when Joe Buck responded to the first home run? What did he say? Oh, I can't remember. It's in the corn. Oh, there you go. I literally was wiping tears that night. Folks, if you get the opportunity, please go on YouTube and watch the very first game where they played. It wasn't in heaven. It was played where? In Iowa. In Iowa. So there, there you go. So John uh played uh quite a few sports in high school. You set any records in Notre Dame? No. Pop a hundred and so on foul foul shots. No, no. I was average. Average? What happened after high school? Where'd you go?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

I went to Lemoyne College.

SPEAKER_04 10:49

Lemoyne, which is the dolphins, ladies and gentlemen of the jury. Can you tell or tell or shed any light to the audience how does a college in upstate New York get named after a dolphin?

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Because the Simon Lemoyne, who is the founder of the Jesuit community, um was a lover of dolphins. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 11:10

So I think we're going to change Mount Markham to the uh the Mount Markham donuts. Let's see how that works if I made a if I if I make a contribution that it is worthy. What was your major? Accounting. Accounting, one of the bright ones. That makes perfect sense. And Lemoyne is a four-year institution?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

Do you recommend in 2026 that students attend Le Moyne? Absolutely. That'll be edited out considering I work at SUNY Pali. Moving along.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

I'm a legacy. I have two daughters that graduated from La Monday.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

Isn't that something? They should be sending you some uh some uh gratuity based on that. Did they have uh good experiences? They had great experiences.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

What were their majors? Um my oldest one was a psychology major with education concentration. I knew I loved her. And my younger one was a Spanish major with education concentration. Are they doing anything with their degrees? Uh my oldest one is a special ed teacher at Brookfield Central School District. How hard is it to teach two kids? She teaches more than two kids. Oh, all right. I just hear this. And my uh my youngest um stepped away from teaching and is now working for Mohawk Valley Community Action in their early childhood development program. Outstanding. Outstanding. Proud of both of them.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Yeah, you should be. I mean, I'll tell you uh real surprise. Anyone who decides to get into the world of education, I offer a real sincere, deep bow. I will also say this because I got myself in some hot water many years ago when the German and I were dating, and we were headed to Green. Actually, we were headed to a place called the Three Bear Inn, which was quite a good ride. And it was Friday evening, and she was yawning, and I said, I have no idea why you're so tired. All you do is teach. And uh, I was never forgiven for that. You know, how's that for Catholicism? So you graduate college. When did you uh what happened after college? You did you come an accountant?

SPEAKER_01 13:06

I started with an accounting firm um out of college as uh in their quote unquote administrative administration training program uh to, you know, work up the ladder. And I spent six months doing nothing but bank reconciliations every single day. And I was bored. So I asked them if there's anything else that could be done as part of the training program, and they said no, that's the first step. And so I went to work for a bank here locally. Doing what? I was a credit analyst in the commercial credit department. So I analyzed financial statements and having an accounting background, I knew what a financial statement looked like. I knew how to put together a financial statement, how to dissect it.

SPEAKER_04 13:53

So you were she's consistently, professionally been just a party waiting to happen, John.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Yeah, just a party waiting to happen.

SPEAKER_04 14:01

So let's transition a little bit, if uh you don't mind. We're gonna talk a little bit about tying your athletic history and your athletic itch. By the way, were either of your parents athletic? Is it in your genes? My father was a football player at Whitesboro. Okay. What position?

SPEAKER_01 14:18

My mother's five foot nothing.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

Didn't run or anything like that? No. So it was dad's side of the house.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

You remember what position he played? Linebacker. Jesus. All right. Note to note to self. Don't pick on John too much. You never see him coming from behind. So let's talk a little bit about one of the reasons why we are here, uh, especially to the audience who is listening. Uh, aside from John's personal history, and I did write him an email letting him know that first of all, as as my friend, I wanted to give him the opportunity to come out and share a little bit about his history and to have a capsule of uh something to heal he'll give to his negative cash flow. And if you don't know what negative cash flow is, that is our grandchildren people. And if you ever want to get to John's heart, just say, show me a picture of your grandson and you are in the circle of trust. Uh, there's not a lot of people who understand the big picture when it comes to having grandchildren. John clearly does. It's a wonderful thing to observe. So, talk about, first of all, when did you get bit by potentially getting into something called officiating basketball? And by the way, before you even answer that, folks, I apologize for the lack of the introduction. Outside of John's professional life in the in the insurance world, uh, John is the interpreter for something called the Utica Board of Women's Basketball Officials. Please make sure you take the time to look that up. You're going to hear that several times today, because it's really, really important that you understand what the differences are between not just boards, but specific people who are on this board. John, from my perspective, is a shining star, and uh he is one of the reasons that gets me excited to be on the floor. And I say that whether you're here or not, uh, because it is the flat out truth. John's role in our particular board is he is the rules interpreter. I'm going to ask him to interpret that in just a moment. So, first of all, let's back up. What got you interested in officiating? Let's start there.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Well, I was um coaching modified basketball at Notre Dame and um as well as softball.

SPEAKER_04 16:29

What were you like as a as a coach, John, as a matter of record? As a matter of record? It is it is Tell the Truth Saturday.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yes, it is. Um, because it's Holy Saturday. Um I was a I was intense, I was competitive, um, but it was all about in Modified, it was all about the girls learning, growing, becoming better. Um, you know, I it wasn't about wins or losses at the modified level. It was about, you know, making the team better, starting out at this level and raising the bar up to the, you know, to the highest level we could um by the end of the year.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

So were you an advocate of teaching fundamentals? Yes. Do you think that is an art? I I gotta be careful as a reach or as a researching standpoint. So I'm gonna rephrase what I was gonna say. Where do you perceive the teaching of fundamentals is in 2025-2026?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

There is no teaching of fundamentals in 2025, 2026. I appreciate that. Everybody wants to be the D1 athlete from right from the beginning, um, which is why, unfortunately, in my opinion, why the world of basketball is as bad as it is today. Um, but anyways, I digress. So I was coaching modified basketball, um, and then I was the um public address announcer for Notre Dame Athletics back in the day. And I used to announce the basketball games, um, boys and girls. And uh some of my friends that I knew in high school, some people that I'd gotten to know um you know, while I was announcing the games were officiating, and they said, Hey, you know, when you get done coaching, why don't you come into officiating? And so when my oldest no, when my youngest daughter became a senior in high school, that's when I uh started officiating.

SPEAKER_04 18:30

Was that a difficult decision to start officiating?

SPEAKER_01 18:34

No, not at all. I wanted to make a difference. I saw I watched many games where I didn't think officials were doing a very good job. So I wanted to maybe hopefully make a difference.

SPEAKER_04 18:47

Can you explain to the audience from your lens what does it mean when an official makes a difference?

SPEAKER_01 18:52

Um from my lens, an official makes a difference by doing their job um to the best of their ability and not interpreting the rules the way they think they should be interpreted, but interpreting the rules the way they're written, enforcing the rules as written, hustling, getting in position, not gonna make every call correct, um, but you know, making at least ninety to ninety-five percent of the calls correctly. Um, but most importantly, you know, giving back to the sport that maybe the sport gave to you um growing up?

SPEAKER_04 19:30

How many years were you uh officiating before rules interpretation started coming toward you? Or or practic it doesn't just drop on your plate, you are the rules interpreter. It doesn't work like that. Um when did you when do you perceive how many years were you in where you really took the interpretation of rules much more seriously?

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Um I was probably when I started doing college, when I started officiating college, um I started to take the rules a lot more seriously. Um because there's a lot more um eyes watching you at that point in time. Um so if you don't know the rules, you know, um you people knew it that you didn't know the rules, and you were, you know, looked at that, hey, you don't know that rule, you kicked that rule, you know, what are you doing? You know, you should you really be at this at this level. So that's when I really started looking at, you know, I really need to know the book, know the rules inside out. And uh since I started as a high school official, um you know, I I was certainly always interested in um in the rules interpretation position. Um, and one of my mentors who was the rules interpreter um was getting ready to step down. And you know, when he did finally step down, he asked me if I would be interested in taking over for him. What a compliment.

SPEAKER_04 21:03

What are some key differences between reffing post-secondary at high school and collegiate level, besides a lot more eyes on you? What else is there?

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Besides a lot more eyes on you, I think the main difference is the probably the level of competition. And I don't mean the level of competition as far as talent-wise. I mean the level of competition as far as it means that much more at the collegiate level than it did at the high school level. These girls are playing college ball, not because their friends are playing college ball, but because they're being either A, recruited to play college ball, or they want to continue um the sport that they love at the next level. So I think that the level of competition, you know, just competing, you know, wanting to wanting to compete is that much higher at the collegiate level than it is at the high school level from Division III all the way on up to division one.

SPEAKER_04 22:09

Do you remember doesn't have to you don't have to have to say where, but do you remember your first college game and what was that like to step out on the floor?

SPEAKER_01 22:20

I do remember it. It was a scrimmage at Union College with a coach that was on the Rules Interpretation Committee. Oh wow and when I when I got there for my pregame um the lead official said to me when you walk out on the floor she's going to know you're a rookie and she's going to remind you you're a rookie. Just be yourself, do your job and at the end of the day make her understand that yes you're a rookie but no you're not a rookie. So that was some really good advice I was given and uh I reffed my game. She reminded me I was a rookie as soon as I made my first call um and uh at the end of the day she actually gave me uh a copy of the video um and said here you know um take this home take a look at it you know and this will hopefully help you you know continue to grow uh grow your game all right my friends we're gonna start asking some uh questions of Mr.

SPEAKER_04 23:36

Perry uh we're gonna start with it we'll bounce all over the place which is what we do on this podcast but like to get the audience to know a little bit more about John beyond the officiating even though that's important but how officials officiate are also a consequence I perceive of their moral fiber and who they are as people and so like to get for the audience to know not just from a rules interpreter standpoint, from a basketball official standpoint, but as John as a professional. Let's have a quick conversation. Here we go. What does the art of serving the community mean to you? Because you mentioned at one point that you wanted to do something to give back and so I want to applaud that but what does it mean to serve the community from John Perry's perspective?

SPEAKER_01 24:24

It means giving back to the people and the place that have given so much to you all of your life why is that important to you? You don't have to do that it's important number one because that's the person that I am it's how I was raised by my parents um it's what I saw them do my whole life so if it was important to them it wasn't it's important to me.

SPEAKER_04 24:57

If you heard what John just said and I'm a paraphrasing which is really kind of relevant to our conversation this morning John just said it was modeled for him. And that's going to be a re-emerging theme as we go through some of the questions that I'm posing for John. Looking back at your life so far can you talk about some accomplishments that you are proud of my family? How's a family an accomplishment?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Explain that uh well let's see I this August I'll be married to my wife for 40 years. Well that means that she's tolerated you how's that an accomplishment John's an accomplishment in itself that I've talked her into uh tolerating me for 40 years. Um I have two wonderful beautiful daughters um that as I mentioned you know both graduated from my alma mater Lemoine College my alma mater Notre Dame High School my wife's alma mater Notre Dame High School um which by the way that's where we met. Oh you took my ex question um so it's just I mean family's everything you know the reason you're on this earth is because of your family you know I mean if I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my mom and dad and you know my kids wouldn't be here if it wasn't for my wife and I so family is everything and and to me it is everything it's always been everything and it will always be everything.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

So I believe uh philosophical assumption you met your wife in high school? I did. Well what grade were you when you caught eyes? I was a senior and she was a sophomore. Nice wow John any rate uh who asked who out I asked her out and that would have been but I wasn't I wasn't um she'll tell this story but uh I had eyes for her sister at one point in time.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Oh interesting who's my age and uh my wife thought I was quote unquote skeva that was the that was the word that she used back never heard that word um me either uh and then um you know a few years later I wasn't skeva anymore I guess so and now 40 years later 45 years later. So you connected in 1979? Uh 1981 Well we connected originally we met yes I met her in 1979 when I was uh when I actually correct yeah you were a senior said it would have been in 81 yes so okay 1980 actually if you you know if we want to be technical because it was the fall so there's a lot of people of different generations who listen to this podcast which is really kind of cool so in 1981 did you have to ask permission to go out on dates what did dating look like back then 1981 dating was you held hands maybe in school you might have gone to a movie you know and where'd you go to a movie in 1981? Um you either went to the Riverside Mall or um or the drive-in. I was gonna say no Harper had a drive in then or the drive in um if you could get your dad's car um and you know if your dad knew what you were why you were going why you were borrowing his car he might have given it to you he might not have that's true because you you couldn't tell your father back then that you're that you're going to watch the submarine races no I told my father I was born in a drive in movie with my girlfriend a lot of kids are saying why would you go to the submarine races?

SPEAKER_04 28:50

Look that up and he said and he said to me don't forget the SOB turn and as Doc looks at me puzzled what's SOB slide over baby Lord have mercy what was the family car the family car was a Buick Electra midsize full size full size full metal tank full metal tank and bench seat in the front oh no way that's why you had the slide over baby nobody wore seat belts back then oh that's so you take that right hand turn and she just slides over ha ha ha you didn't know you were gonna have this much fun did you well yeah I kind of did I didn't didn't know what direction it was coming from so that that's awesome do you remember where your first date was my wife and I yeah oh let's see my 18th birthday where'd you go my house that was a date yeah my sister threw me a birthday party an 18th birthday party and invited my wife we weren't dating at the time I see he said wonderful describe your wife my wife is a Irish Italian with a heart of gold proud of her heritage proud of her family and nothing means more to her than family I know what I you and I talk about our grandchildren you know we we both go down that that emotional toll so if she were sitting here and I would ask her to describe her her grandson what would her physical reaction to that question be she would just her physical reaction would be a great big smile on her face.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Okay is she enjoying grandmotherhood she is that's wonderful she's exhausted because she watches them every day she sleeps well at night she sleeps well at night yeah she likes she likes Saturdays and Sundays when she can sleep past you know a certain hour John what keeps you motivated and I guess that's a pretty broad question because I'm not let me narrow the the the scope of the question in terms of John is highly driven people when it comes to pursuing excellence what keeps you motivated to keep that drive toward excellence um probably my competitive nature um and always striving for perfection knowing I'm not going to get there but always striving for it. Is that realistic pro approach? Probably not so when you have a young professional who comes up and says I really want to be a better basketball official I really want to be a better insurance adjuster what's my pathway to make sure that I stay motivated you probably could shouldn't give that person that advice what advice would you give them doing the right thing to find um ethical being ethical um never cutting corners um if you're you know whether you're in the insurance industry or any professional industry you know don't um do just always do the right thing if you have to ask yourself whether it's right or wrong and if it's wrong then don't go down that path. If it's the right path go down that path um you know as a basketball official doing the right thing um you know enforce the rules as written um hustle um don't do it just for the money do it for the passion do it for the game do it for the love of the game great movie with uh can't remember the name of the guy that played the uh lead role in it but don't remember that film great baseball movie for the love of the game the love of the game that's one of the few things few sports kind of like golf where tradition still means something that's why I'm looking forward to the masters all right it's just there's some things that tradition just feels wonderful.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

How would you describe you?

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Complicated um competitive family oriented I don't know I don't know what else to say not a problem if it pops in your head please add it we you we talk a lot about there's some emerging themes people as you're listening to John uh family doing it right modeling and doing things for the right reason with your approach do you believe or perceive that's one of my favorite words that John Perry is making a difference in the world and if so where and if not why I hope I am okay I hope I am I try to make a difference every day some days are are better than others um but I at the end of the day I do think I'm making a little bit of a difference um and you know I like to make a difference to everybody but I know that that's not possible. That's that strive for perfection again and you're not going to get through to everybody.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

So I learned from a good friend of mine that I need to just focus on those people that want to be focused on when it comes to teaching younger basketball officials who from my perspective and I'll I'll tell tell the audience this and you can certainly verify I take the the refresher class every year. Every year I'd like to be as humble as I possibly can it's like anything else you know a bicycle that sits in a corner uh collects dust and so does the mind and there's so much time between basketball season and when it starts again where the bicycle is potentially sitting in the corner. So for me I think it's out of respect for the game and respect for you and uh to be able to come back and to take the class every year. But I digress. So when you have new people coming into the class how do you convey or get new officials to buy into they should be officiating to make a difference, to respect the game, to do it right and not for the money. How do you do that?

SPEAKER_01 35:59

I honestly don't know that I am until later on in their career. I mean I asked the question why they got into officiating you know and most of them will say that you know because they've played basketball or they've coached basketball or you know um but at the end of the day you really don't know if they're there for anything but the money until I think later on in their career when you see them progress and you see their progression as how they grow and develop and certain people develop better and quicker because they are there for the right reasons.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

I have a a young woman young well doesn't matter young or not but who is interested in officiating and as you know there's a there's a few people who go out there and brag about rightfully brag about how wonderful it is to have the opportunity to officiate and one of the most common responses I get is why on earth do I want to go to these places where the parents are standing two feet behind me they're cursing they're saying inappropriate things the coaches are are out of line they're not respecting the rules being written now I'm getting yelled at and for how much money why on earth would I want to do that? Why? How would you respond to that person?

SPEAKER_01 37:37

2026 Well I guess I would respond to them that you don't have to be yelled at and cursed at because if you're doing it for the right reasons and you're doing it the right way from the beginning and you're setting the tone not everybody's going to agree with you okay however they're probably not cursing you. Um and I will tell you that there are very few games that I officiate where I hear people cursing in the stands or reacting in the stands the way I see them react at other games or coaches even react. Similar to the way the coach reacted last night on you know when he was interviewed at the end of the third quarter at the uh semifinal game in the in the final four.

SPEAKER_04 38:40

Yeah and folks again we are talking about the Yukon South Carolina Final Four game last night and uh please take the time to look it's all over YouTube today obviously April 4th 2025 sixth is just so you have the date but take a look at the the interview that John is alluding to and then also what happened postgame.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Go ahead so I think you know if you take care of business right from the beginning and you talk about that with your fellow officials of taking care of business right from the beginning um then you won't have you won't have those people cursing and you know yes you're gonna have people disagreeing with your calls you're gonna have people you know that was a horrible call you know the old chant ref you suck um you're gonna have that um because they don't agree with your call but if you're consistent if you have both sides not agreeing with your call then you know you're doing the right thing because you've made the ro the same probably the same call both ways and you're being consistent.

SPEAKER_04 39:47

Do you remember your roughest if I if I can use that term that a game that you had where you look back on and said you know what this was just a bad night for me. I do I do remember Ilian high school so Ilian is roughly 10 to 15 miles east of you the New York people go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

I just had a bad night I just was I don't know if I wasn't focused if I didn't feel good um but one of my good friends that I went to high school with he actually graduated with my wife um known him for over 40 years. I was working with him that night and after the game he always had something positive to say to people and he said to me John I think that was the best game you've had so far and I said no it wasn't it was horrible and he said well I didn't really want to say anything but yeah it was bad. I just I don't know what it was I just wasn't I don't know again again I don't know if I wasn't focused if I just but I promised myself that I would not have a game like that go after going forward.

SPEAKER_04 41:01

And I I'll I'll ask you this too because as as we agree as officials there's no such thing as a perfect game.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

No.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

And I remind people all the time that when professional officials are making mistakes and you know now to your point especially during this the NCAA tournament there's more eyes out officials and calls and positioning like nothing else.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Well now they have a rules analyst um with the and with the commentators um and they ask her questions and you know they'll ask her you know well geez there's a lot of physicality going on why wasn't you know that called and you know why did this person You know Gene I forgot his name is one of the most famous uh oh no I'm talking about the women okay so the women now have D Cantner who's a longtime um 30 plus year official 25 Final Fours you know um and uh so they uh they they ask her on the on the games now and uh you know like well last night during the Yukon South Carolina game you know a official made a call from the trail position underneath the basket um which you know I don't know that it was the right call um from my vantage point in front of the in front of the television um but you know the rules analyst you know certainly protected her fellow official and you know told the reason why she made the call and you know she did have a better angle from where she was um but you know again I don't I think you may yeah I think you make you talk about that in your pregame with your partners as to you know where you're gonna call what you're gonna call when you're gonna call sometimes you gotta make the the right call the tough call out of position um but if it's egregious and if it's you know everybody else in the whole gymnasium saw it um but I don't know that everybody else in the whole gymnasium saw that particular call.

SPEAKER_04 43:13

Another thing that has potentially impacted the game and I like to get it from your perspective is the ability to challenge plays and now you'll see by every college bench there's a person there with a laptop.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Yeah the Texas guy is uh 10 for 11. Isn't that something? Yeah I went to bed at halftime last night I couldn't stay up any longer um but uh yeah he's 10 for 11 the the young the young kid that uh has the uh iPad in front going through the going through everything and he he caught that one last night that was a good catch that's a very good catch because you're right it didn't even look like that that was the uh potentially the right call what do you wish you could tell your younger self what do I wish I could tell my younger self Relax more and let things go.

SPEAKER_04 44:05

That is a real powerful life lesson because that is probably one of the most the most frequent contributors to increasing stress, which will ultimately take you out. Has that been a struggle for John Perry? And why?

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Has it been a struggle? Um, it is a struggle for me. Um, and I think again, because of my competitiveness and just my strive for perf for perfection, um, just the two of those two don't go hand in hand. Um, I I will tell you this that um I'm 63 years old and I've relaxed more in the last probably 10 years than I ever was relaxed in my life. Um, if you ask my wife and kids, I was not relaxed as a coach. Um again, I you know, that drive for perfection, I you know, I had that same drive as a coach. I have the same drive as, you know, an individual. Um, but since the I've gotten as I've gotten older, I've learned that if I want to, like you said, want to be here and continue to be here, I need to get more and more stress out of my life than into my life.

SPEAKER_04 45:38

Totally agree with you. Totally agree. Because there's a theory that says we are supposed to amass wisdom. Not sure where that comes from, but the German reminds me all the time that uh some things are just not working.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

So speaking of the German, do you ever call her by her name?

SPEAKER_04 45:52

I'm not sure she has one.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

Yeah. Uh if you had the power to make the world a better place, and I really perceive you do, what would you do?

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Um I think I would try to make people realize that this world is a good place. And boy, some days that's a hard sell, especially lately. I know. And to see the goodness in all that we do and all that we are. Where do you see goodness, John, that gives you that lens? I see goodness in my family, I see goodness in my friends, I see goodness in the community. You know, um you know, we talked about where we're from, and you know, this community is probably one of the most supportive community I've ever been a part of. Um when things are going awry or people are down, this this community, you know, just they just gather together and they, you know, and they lift people up and they do what needs to be done to help, you know, whether it's uh blood drives or, you know, um supporting people in a 15K road race, you know, it just, you know, heart association, you know, um whatever it is. It just people step up.

SPEAKER_04 47:37

So for people listening to the podcast, John, and I'm I'm and initially I was going to say to students who listen and my mentees who listen to the podcast, but as I'm thinking about this, this is relevant to anybody who is listening. What you just described is the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, places, and things.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Yeah. And if the whole world did that, imagine what a better place it would be. Well stated, sir.

SPEAKER_04 48:10

Fun question, which I'm going to enjoy watching your body language. What do people misunderstand about you the most?

SPEAKER_01 48:17

I think they misunderstand um how good of a person I really am. How do you know you're a good person? Uh, because people tell me some things that I do make a difference. Uh, and again, it's the way I was raised. So I try to be as good of a person as I possibly can. I don't get it right all the time. What's your favorite childhood memory? Speaking of which? My favorite childhood memory is uh just doing things for family, you know, whether it's playing cards with my grandparents' pinochle on Saturday night. I've never played Pinochle. Oh my God. It's hard. Um, whether it's just going to the drive-in movie with my whole family loaded up in my father's, you know, my father's car. The boat. Um, whether it's just, you know, being with friends, having a good time, you know, um, living life to the fullest. Those are the those are the good memories I I have as a kid.

SPEAKER_04 49:24

You have to have areas of growth. You have to experience from my perspective, you have to scrape scrape your knees. There's a something else to look up, people. Whitney Phillips, something called only the black keys. Have you ever seen it? No. I'm going to send it to you today, and I cannot wait for you to call me afterward. Look this up, people. Whitney Phillips, Only the Black Keys. But one of the things that his grandmother said to him, and I quote, son, if the mountain was smooth, you can't climb it. So to that point, John, end quote, by the way. What has been what you perceive as your biggest failure?

SPEAKER_02 50:01

And what did you learn from that? Um my perception, and people would disagree with me.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

And this is a tough one.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Um my perception is I failed helping my sister when I donated my bone marrow to her because she didn't live. That's my perception. So you lost your sister? Yep. How long ago at this point?

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Uh seven years. This July. Seven years ago last month is when I actually um made the donation.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

And what uh what what was the medical condition you lost her? Okay. A particular type? Do you remember? Um AML or AML, yeah. It was A AML. And if you don't mind, and certainly we we can uh we can edit this out if you are uncomfortable, because I've lost a sibling. Can you explain to the audience from your perspective what is that like to lose a sibling? I've lost two, actually.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Wow. Both to the same disease. Um the first one I was probably too young to understand. How old were you? I was still in college. I was uh sophomore in college when my young when my middle sister passed. Um she was diagnosed on my 18th birthday. She's the one that threw me the 18th birthday party. Oh wow. What is it like to lose a sibling? It's like losing a piece of your of yourself. My older sister and I were only 13 months apart, so you know, it was we were a lot closer, even though she didn't live around here.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

It's tough. You know. Yeah. Well, there's no no question about it. There's no question about it. And there you have people, some underlying factors of what John brings forward when you take the time to get to know John. Because there's always something that has to happen from my perspective. Some may argue not, but I'm as a psych major, there's always something that brid that happens that people end up behaving and looking through life through a different lens. So I find that to be fascinating. Thank you for allowing us to get a little uh personal, especially something so deep and so profound. And once again, uh uh deep bow and sorry for your loss. If you could be remembered for one thing, John, what would it be? Always trying to do the right thing. One more before we pause for a commercial break. What's the best compliment you think you've ever received? You're just like your father. You know, it's very interesting because my my my wife and I, uh, the German, um, we would often talk about, and I'm I'm curious if you and your wife have ever had these discussions, the difference between relationships boys have with their fathers and girls have with their mothers.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

Oh, yeah, we have that conversation all the time. My wife is just like her mother. My daughter is just like her mother. And boys and their fathers. I am just like my father.

SPEAKER_04 53:31

There it is. There it is. It's interesting. And who knows where this comes from? You know, and when we if you talk about a boy's mother, I mean that it's just game on. It's just game on. But to your point, especially when you love and respect your father as deeply as you clearly do, and someone says you're just like him. That's gotta go right to your soul. Yes, it does. What's a funny story your family would tell about you that you'd like to share? Huh?

SPEAKER_01 54:06

A funny story. Oh. There's a lot of funny stories about me. One that my family would uh would like to share. Well, my daughters would like to share this one. When I was coaching softball at practice one day, we were doing first to third drills. So, you know, you you go from first to third on a hit to the outfield. So I'm the third base coach, and you know, they would have to pick me up rounding second base, and I would either give them the stop sign, stay at second, or you know, keep coming to third. Well, probably one of our fastest girls on the team. It was her turn to do it. Luckily, it was, I think, toward the end of practice, and uh told her to come to third, and at the last minute, I told her to, you know, go down, basically slide. And as I told her to go down, I went down, and my pants went rip. So luckily I had shorts underneath the sweatpants that I had on, but yeah. That's probably the funny story that my daughters would like to share.

SPEAKER_04 55:27

Tell me about three of the most influential people in your life and how they have impacted you. My father?

SPEAKER_03 55:36

Why? Because he was a good man. What made him so?

SPEAKER_01 55:42

Took care of his family, worked hard, no matter what it took, laid off every winter, but found other work somewhere to um you know, get through the construction, you know, the the the the time when you don't do construction. Um so that he could put, you know, food on the table, clothes on our back, roof over our head. Um my grandfather, because after my dad died, he took me under his wing and I guess completed what my father started.

SPEAKER_04 56:23

Did you get a lot of quality time with your grandparents? I did. Okay. Yeah, I envy that because um ours were down in Mississippi, so didn't get a chance to see them very often at all. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

I um growing up, I mean, we had sleepovers at my grandparents, we went to dinner at my grand my other grandparents, you know, just about every Sunday. Um and as a matter of fact, when my daughters were young, um probably right up until they were age, oh god, eight and eleven. So up until my oldest one was eleven years old, they grew up with my grandparents too. I mean, we I remember we would go to Pizza Hut when the when Pizza Hut had the um, you know, you you read you read the book and you read so many books and you went to Pizza Hut and you got the uh the free pan pizza. Um and you know, we would go to we would go to Pizza Hut on a Friday night, and you know, there there we are, my wife, myself, my two daughters, my mom, and my three grandparents. Three of my three of my grandparents all at Pizza Hut together, you know, and it's we went on vacations together. Um, you know, we went to uh Sesame Place down in Pennsylvania. My wife, myself, my girls, my mom, and three of my grandparents, two two grandmothers and one grandfather. Um unfortunately, my my dad's dad passed away um from a broken heart about uh six months after my dad died.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

Aside from taking phone calls from the good doctor, what does your morning routine look like? Morning routine?

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Um well, I work in the office two days a week. So the three days a week that I don't work in the office. My morning routine, get up, brush my teeth. What time do you get up? Uh anywhere between 5 30 and 6 o'clock.

SPEAKER_04 58:35

Who gets up first? You or the you're your wife?

SPEAKER_01 58:37

Oh, my wife. Really? Yeah. My wife leaves the house around 6 40 every morning.

SPEAKER_03 58:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 58:46

So um, so she gets up first. I don't have an alarm clock. What time you turn the world off? Uh sometime between depends on the day. Sometime, anytime between 9 30 and 11. 9 30, really? Sometimes, yeah. I sometimes I'm grandson takes it out of you. Sometimes I'm that exhausted. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Speaking of which, sidebar question. What is the most what do you love the most about being a grandfather?

SPEAKER_01 59:18

It may not be one thing, but pouring my heart and soul into a little guy that was brought into this world by one of my heart and souls.

SPEAKER_04 59:30

So this is gonna be something that he's gonna be able to hear for the rest of his life. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 59:38

Describe to him what he's like today. Fun, loving, and funny. Does he have any quirks that you don't want to forget?

SPEAKER_04 59:49

I'm not sure if quirk is the right word either.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

Yeah, I'm not sure if quirk is the right word either. Um Behaviors. How's that? He he's just a he's just a fun loving kid. Um he he's a terror, though.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:05

At this stage of his how old? Two and a half.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:10

What family member do you think is coming through right now? Who who's who's dominating his landscape? Oh, his mother. His mother.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:17

Oh, he is his mother as much as his mother is his is her mother. Okay. Drives you crazy. Love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:24

Wait, the future's coming. Hopefully it's not a not a glimpse. Identify some life challenges, John, and have you overcome them?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:33

To be honest with you, Doc, everything that my family has gone through, I honestly feel that I really haven't had the challenges that they've had. Um are challenges important for development? Sure. Okay. Sure. Um, I mean, I've had my challenges, and I think probably the biggest challenges I've that I've had is coping and dealing with what my other family members have had to deal with and challenges that they've had. And sometimes questioning why them, not me.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

Do you think you'll ever get resolved to that question? No. That's a heavy question. No. Who's your hero and why? I think I know the answer. Who's my hero? Who do you think? Your father. What continues to inspire you down?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:28

What continues to inspire me is um continuing to be there and take care of my family. Um and as it grows and continues to grow, um, I want to continue to, you know, be able to do whatever I need to do to make sure they're okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:48

What things tend to really make you belly laugh?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:52

My wife and daughter's sense of humor. And now my grandson has that same sense of humor. Biggest regret? Probably not spending as much time with my dad and sisters that I could have, not knowing what was going to happen to them.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:09

When you listen to this podcast, folks, I would really recommend playing that line back at least ten times. We have a tendency and a we have a lot of terrible habits as human beings, but that is one of them is uh we wait. We wait. When you feel stressed and the world seems too much to bear, John, what calms you down and brings you back to center?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

Same word that uh same word that inspires me, family.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

Last question for this particular segment. This is my favorite question, I believe, on this podcast. What is one question you wish people would ask you? People don't understand, as you're pondering this, how difficult that question is to answer. I actually started asking, adding that question to job interviews when Canada's come. I'll ask a relative to your application, what is the question you wish I would ask you? Isn't that cool? It is cool. All right, my friends, now it is time for, as you know, my favorite part of the podcast, which is the rapid fire questions. A while ago, I I didn't want to send these questions out, but some of these have a tendency to have some sidebar stories, and I'm totally welcome to that. So we're gonna go into this. Uh, before I do that, I it's really important that the audience know and to remind the audience that I'm really, really selective in in terms of people who I never want to forget. And John has been a person, I don't believe in coincidences. And considering what I do for a living at the level of which I do it and what I perceive I have been tasked to do, I know who I believe I am, and I hope you all take the time to answer that question for yourselves. But like John, uh, I believe that I'm here to change the world and to make a difference and to aspire to model what I'm seeking from others with flaw. But John Perry has been a person who I watched for a while as I joined this particular board to be able to watch firsthand his standard, his aspiration for excellence. And my friends, there are so many videos out there where you can watch John do his craft, and I'm gonna suggest that you do that. I know it's hard to understand what he's doing on the court, but in terms of how game management and terms of his interactions with players and coaches and fellow officials is at a standard that I rarely see. And I don't care if John's in a room or not. One thing that John and I share is we will speak our truth. Uh John is a person who I've invited into my circle because he walks the walk, doesn't is, doesn't just decide to uh engage in the art of rules interpretation out of theory. And let me also add something about John's role as the rules interpreter, because we really didn't go into the weeds on it, and that's okay, because I wanted you to get to know my friend. Uh the rules interpreter is an unbelievably difficult bar. It is unbelievably difficult. Don't believe it. Give me a call because you are not going to believe what this man does. That's why I become really protective of what he brings to not just the basketball board. Uh, I try to perform in a way, and I've told him this, that honors the amount of time and investment. That he is putting to me, and along as one other person as well, who also knows. But I really hope that this podcast, because we're talking about good news, and this has been good news that the man upstairs has allowed me time with John Perry, uh, not just as a brother official, but as a person in life. And I am just profoundly, deeply thankful as we get together for Easter Sunday, that you, sir, are in my life. Rapid fire, inbound. What's your favorite holiday?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:30

Thanksgiving.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:31

Why?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:32

Giving. Gratitude. Thankful. Giving, receiving, or both?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:40

Giving. Fall, winter, summer, or spring? Fall and spring. I have no idea if you do this, but when you do engage in this, what is the best way John Perry relaxes? Watches sports. I'm thinking of you watching women's Notre Dame basketball with an elevated heart rate. That's not relaxing. What's your favorite donut? My favorite donut is a taillight. Favorite music? 70s classical rock. Who would you pay$500 to hear in concert? The Eagles. What's your favorite album by the Eagles? Sidebar. Favorite album? Yeah. Remember? Greatest hits. Fatest Hits. One of mine, I'm going to say, is an album called Hell Freezes Over. Hotel California. Have you ever heard the live version from Hell Freezes Over? OMG.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:39

Have you ever heard in a concert? No. From the Hotel California concert. Well, that was Hell Freezes Over. No, but that was live.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:48

But they did a Hotel California.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:51

Starts out with the bongos and so on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's sweet. Yeah. Are you a Don Henley fan? I am. Do you have any uh favorite songs by Don Henley in his singles? I do right at the top of my head, but I have the advantage of being a DJ for so long.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

Yeah, and I I don't have any I probably don't I probably know all of all of his songs, but probably don't know two songs. They were singles and it's not Eagles songs, so correct. Two songs I need you to listen to.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:18

Real Love. Oh, I love that song. And Taking You Home. Yeah. And Taking You Home is something I know you would love considering what your wife uh stands for in your life. That's a great song. We started playing that at weddings to end the night. Wow. Very powerful. Favorite food.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:37

Favorite food. Oh, geez. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:41

Come on. You and I were to leave right now. You and I were to leave right now. John, we're gonna go get some food, and I want it to be your favorite. Where are we going?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:49

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:50

You chicken.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

Where are we going? I don't know what I put down. Nothing. Oh, there you go. I know I probably don't have a favorite food because I love all food. You really? You're pretty versatile. Yeah, I just don't love liver and onions.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:02

Say wow, there well, I love onions, not liver. If you woke up tomorrow morning and could go anywhere in the world, where's your journey taking you? You know that answer.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:12

South Bend, Indiana. Why? University of Notre Dame. You'd go to a college. You know how vast the world is, John, and you would go to a building? I would go to no, I would go to that college. I wouldn't go to a building. I would go to that campus. Have you ever stepped foot on that campus? No. Everybody should. All right. Why? Because it's kind of like going to, in my opinion, it's like going to heaven. That's Iowa, John. I know, I know. That's what that's what they thought in the movie, but going to going to the University of Notre Dame is like going to heaven with the basilica and the grotto. And it just it is.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:53

It's like it's like it's like being in heaven. It's very interesting because our president, Wally Sobiejo, who also will be an upcoming guest on the podcast, I remind him that, and he kind of shudders. But at any rate, he said the same thing. He was there, I believe, last year, and had the same experience you did. I find that very, very interesting. But what if you're not Catholic? Are you going to have the same You're going to have the same experience? All right, we're going to let you test that there. Whether you're Catholic or not. Jeans, sweats, shorts, workout pants, or casual dress? Casual dress. Favorite actor.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:26

Uh favorite actor. Probably Michael J. Fox. What makes him so? Back to the future, people. Um, actually, not back to the future. It was when he was in family ties.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:40

As Alex P. Keaton. Yeah, that that was the that has to be the character that that influences uh the Big Bang Theory. There's no question about it. He was phenomenal in that. Favorite film? Top Gun. What do you like about it?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

Um, I love the fire, the competitiveness, the drive. And I was thinking about being a Top Gun pilot back in the day. Top Gun or Maverick. Which movie appeals more? I gotta be honest with you. I didn't think they could do a better job with the second one, but they did. Yeah. Yeah. They did.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:22

Absolutely. Did you see both of them on the big screen? I did.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

Worth the hype? Oh, yeah. No question about it, folks. I I people say they don't understand Top Gun. Well, you need to get off the planet. Would you prefer to host or attend a party?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

Oh, attend.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:38

Are you a party kind of person? For example, if your wife says we're gonna go to a house party or whatever, is that your thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:11:46

I'm usually saying to my wife, we're gonna go to a house party and she's telling me have fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:52

What flavor frosting is on your birthday cake? Cream cheese. If you could have lunch with an inspirational person, who would it be? Jesus Christ. Why?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

Because I truly believe that he is the person that saw goodness in everyone and everything and is who I inspire to be a lot like, if I can. Why do people struggle? I know I'm not perfect like he is, though.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:23

Why do people struggle with forgiveness, John, from your perceptive? Perception, perceptive. Okay, I mean taught this morning. Perspective.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:33

I think they struggle with forgiveness because in today's world we live in a world of entitlement and people are entitled to for things. So therefore, if in order for to forgive, you have to be willing to also give up. Um, and therefore you're not entitled to what you should have if you're giving up or if you're forgiving.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:02

Do you consider yourself to be a humble person?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:05

I I do. I probably don't come across that way though.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:09

Who has the best tomato pie in central New York? Romas. Sunshine or Moonshine? Sunshine. Who is your favorite teacher in high school? Sister Joan and Sister Paula. Do you ever call sisters penguins? If you see a former teacher, do you call them by their first name? No. Folks, please make sure you listen to the podcast with police officer Amanda Machel. And uh uh actually that's that's her married name. I apologize. Uh, but her current last name is escaping me. This is embarrassing. But at any rate, uh I asked her this question, and the outcome was beyond hilarious to the point where I had to edit out the laughing. John, what is the current value of a tooth when the first tooth fairy comes? I believe it's five dollars. How do you know it's five dollars?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:08

I don't know. So I really like the who sets the bar. I don't know who sets the bar. It was a dollar when my girls lost their dollar. Last time my girls lost their tooth. That was 30 plus years ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:21

I'll let the part of the cat out of the bag, but when I was telling the sheriff's daughter that same question, she she replied, uh, we didn't get money, we got more responsibility. Yeah, and they would get more gold finish. So that was a wonderful follow-up conversation with the sheriff, which by the way, for those of you who listen to the podcast between the sheriff and the former mayor of Utica, uh, they have requested to do another one this spring. So uh I keep my promises. So there will be another podcast with Sheriff Machel and the former mayor of Utica Take Two. Have you ever uh been heckled by the former mayor of Utica, Mr. Rob Palmeri? Constantly. Would you like to say anything about him in at this moment? About Rob? Yes, please do. He's a good man. No, he's not. Yes, he is. What do you think should happen when he is heckling officials during a basketball game?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:16

I actually a former coach too. He is. I actually um I I coached modified basketball at Notre Dame when he was the JV coach at Notre Dame.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:27

He was the JV coach at Notre Dame? I don't know if I forgot that. Do you have any memories of him as a coach? Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:36

He did not like officials. What didn't he like? Everything. Like most coaches. He only wants the calls to go his way. Not the right way.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:49

I cannot wait to see his face when he when I I guess I'm gonna have to have maybe I should have you both on at the same time. I think that would be entertaining for me on steroids. That's a funny dude. He is a funny dude. All right, so there it is. So I'm gonna I'm gonna send him a text message as I head out to Accelerate today to let them know that I am challenging you and him to be on the podcast together. I think that would be absolutely hilarious. Do you fear any animals? Oh yes, all of them. Why? Because they're an animal. How far down the food chain do you go in terms of animals? You're not afraid of cats. Oh yeah. Dogs? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:30

Uh caterpillars? Um, I guess maybe not a caterpillar or an ant, but you know. Yeah. Anything with uh anything that f with four legs that can bite you? Oh, absolutely. Interesting. A possum? They could bite you too, but so yeah, anything that can bite you. Anything that can bite you.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:50

Yeah, bird can attack you too. It's amazing how you leave the house, John. MMs or Skittles. MMs. Do you have a best friend? And if you don't, or you do, where would you like to spend time with them? Anywhere in the world? Where would you take them?

SPEAKER_01 1:17:07

I do have a best friend. Her name is Diane. I've been married to her for 40 years. You suck up. Um other best friends, unfortunately, I've lost all of them. Male best friends. Do you do you I've had three in my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:26

Wow. Wow, that's that's powerful. What what makes a person a best friend? Do you let them know that? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:36

They're a best friend when they accept you for who you are and what you are. Unconditional. This is gonna be great. What does it mean to live instead of exist? What does it mean to live instead of exist? That you're living your life every day to its fullest.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:58

I probably could have scripted it. That was what you were gonna say. What toppings belong on a pizza? Sausage, mushrooms. No anchovies? No. Not an anchovy guy? No. No onions either. I don't know how you live, John. Favorite Halloween candy or candies? Snickers or Twix? Have you taken your grandson trick-or-treating as you're too young?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

Uh no, we took him last year, but he didn't he didn't enjoy it. He really wasn't old enough to understand yet. Fair enough. Hug or a handshake?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:29

Uh both. Favorite ice cream? Vanilla. Any toppings? Uh peanut butter. Who puts peanut butter on ice cream? I've never heard of that. Oh, try it. Peanut butter on ice cream, John. Try it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:42

Peanut butter sauce. Not actual peanut butter itself. Alright. Maybe that's the that's what it is. Melted peanut butter sauce, yeah. Try it. Do you like peanut butter? I love peanut butter. Do you like ice cream? I like ice cream. Okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna suggest that you go to Nikki Doodles when it opens. Okay. It opens in here in New Hartford on Monday. Go to Nikki Doodles and order the number 17 Sunday, which is called peanut butter and jelly. It's vanilla ice cream with peanut butter sauce. Well, it's interesting because when I ask people all strawberries, I don't like a lot of strawberries, though. It's like strawberry, it's like a it's like a peanut butter and jelly strawberry jelly Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:25

Okay. It's delicious. All right. Well, as the German will tell you, we we don't condemn until we try. My favorite ice cream is soft vanilla with salted cashews, so I can see how this is gonna work. Fair enough. Do you sing in the shower? Uh no. Why did you pause, John? Because I can't sing.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:43

Do you or have you ever played an instrument? Unfortunately, no, but I would love I would have loved to. Which one? What do you think? Guitar? No. Drums.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:54

Oh, okay. Yeah, okay. If you wanted to be remembered for something, I know I asked this earlier, but remind the audience, what would it be? To be remembered as always trying to do the right thing. Absolutely. One of my favorite questions, you're sitting on a mountaintop.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:12

What do you see when you look out that would make the view magnificent? This entire world. And how beautiful it is. What is the most meaningful gift you can give to a friend? Um my friendship.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:31

Is there an experience you have had where you'd like a do-over?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:37

I went through these questions and I don't remember what I answered on that one and probably didn't answer it. Um so apparently I didn't answer it. Um I could have a do-over. One experience I could have a do-over. Could be a good experience because so I'd want to do it again? Or it could be a a bad experience where I'd want to do it over again. Absolutely. Good catch. So one experience. Probably my wedding. Wow. What year did you get married? 1986. Where was your reception? Valley View Country Club.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:12

Band or DJ? Band. Everyday people. Never heard of them. What did they specialize in if they specialize in anything?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:20

Um they just played ever you know, they played just, you know, everyday music. They were, it's funny because my dad, who was in in the construction business, um, on the side, he and my grandfather and my uncle used to do um, they used to put in um driveways on Saturdays um on the weekends. And um so on the side, he, you know, he knew a lot of people. And one of the guys that he would get his um blacktop from was um in this band, everyday people. And so one guy was a blacktop guy, another guy was a plumber, another guy was an electrician. So they were just everyday people. And um, they played in my band, or they played my wedding. Did you wear a tux? Oh, yeah. What color was it? Um, it was a uh gray cutaway.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:11

Gray cutaway. I you gotta bring a picture of what I need to see what John looked like when he was, you know, dapper. By the way, as you'll notice in the the picture that I'm I'm I'm gonna post, uh John and I share something in common that is the absence of uh something on our crowns called hair. How long have you been bald?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:29

How long have I been bald? Um, I actually started shaving my head completely when my cousin um was diagnosed with um with cancer. And uh so he went through chemotherapy and lost all of his hair. And uh so he shaved it, and so that's when I started shaving mine, and his grew back and mine hasn't. Um But, anyways, uh I think I was like uh probably in the my mid-30s, early 40s. Interesting.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:05

But a long time. Interesting why you and I get along. This is just an another reason why this this friendship is so amazing, because I did the same thing for a similar reason. Some of the kids I was serving, especially young ladies who are traumatized by loss of hair, and I wanted to send a message that it was just hair. So I called Father Joe Salerno and I said, Listen, cowboy, let's uh let's get together and shave our hair. He said, Let's do it. And I forgot the name of the other priest, but uh three of us did it. And uh, you know, Father Joe chickened out and grew his hair back, but as you can see, I'm still without mine and love it. What was your wife's uh response? Did you know did she know you were gonna do it ahead of time?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:44

Well, I was losing my hair already, and I used to shave it like, you know, like cut it to the the one or zero on the blade. Um but yeah, she I I told her I was gonna do it. And my daughter had tried to talk me into doing it. And I actually did it, I actually did the first time I did it, but I let it grow back as much as I could. The first time I did it was um I told my softball team when I was coaching that if we won a sectional title, I would shave my head on camera. And I did. And you won.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:17

We won. Second time I decided to do it was we uh when I was doing the state bike ride for Joe. We were headed out to Cataragas County, I believe, or Chautauqua, one of the two, to do a ride with the Sheriff's Department who lost. The under sheriff was sick at the time, and all the sheriffs were gonna shave. And Buffalo was coming down to run the story, so they invited me out to come and join the sheriff's department in a group photo and have to show that to you sometime. But that would that was great. Do you have a favorite sports team?

SPEAKER_01 1:24:48

Yes. Two of them. Go. New York Yankees, University of Nordame football. What happened to the ladies, John? Well, they're they're still a favorite, yes. Wow. Wow. But they're not my two favorite.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:01

I'm sending that out to uh to Neil. Your great betting set. Do you prefer the mall or the woods? Um probably the mall. Sunrise or sunset? Sunrise. Final question, my friend. What is one question you wish people would ask you? What keeps you up at night? What's the answer?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

This crazy world we live in. What about it? That's pretty broad. Just the fact, again, you talk of, you know, just the world of entitlement, um, not holding people accountable, um, not doing the right thing. That that's what keeps me up at night.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:39

How do you aim teach students right now? Because I'm going to argue, John, that these are things that have always been there, that are probably going to always be there, is lack of accountability, lack of choosing to step up when you should be stepping up, whatever should means. You're always going to have people who are not doing things for the right reason. You're always going to have people who don't have a strong ethic. They've always been around us anyway, and they're not going anywhere. So teach a student who was coming up and say, if these things are always there, why should I have hope?

SPEAKER_01 1:26:18

I think they've always been there and they're always will be there, but they're more prevalent now than they have been in the past and hopefully will be in the future. Um and I think that if you just see the goodness in everyone and everything, life would just be that much easier and that much better. Um and I I think we would I think I think it would make everybody a lot more happier than what they are.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:53

If I give you three categories optimist, pessimist, realist. Where's John Perry? Realist.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:01

I say that every day at work. You're the you're a realist? Mm-hmm. I don't believe I'm a pessimistic person. I try to be optimistic, but I'm mostly a realistic person.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:13

I appreciate that. My friends, this has been a glimpse into why I have chosen to get to know Mr. John Perry. And now we're going to transition to a very interesting part of the podcast because this is just fun. Rapid fire segment segment is one part of things, but this is the first time in the podcast history where I actually gave specific questions to John. And again, I wanted to make sure two things were accomplished this morning, and they have at a higher level than I thought that they would, no surprise. But I wanted to give John a gift. I wanted to give him the gift of something he could give to his family and to his grandson, and uh that they never. Ever, ever forget. And that is what John was like in 2026. Uh, his relationship with his family, what he thinks about his family, the impact his grandson has on his life, all of these things that I really hope this podcast is feeding you people as you're listening to it, because that's what this is about, is good news. So take a quick pause for a commercial break, and then we're gonna wrap up with the last segment of questions that are specific to John Perry. All right, my friends, the bonus section here for this particular podcast. Once again, we are live on Oxford Road in New Hartford, New York. Special edition Saturday, which just happens to take place the day before Easter, which is really, really cool that you are here, my friend. Let's talk about a little more professional side of things relative to basketball. What is a rules interpreter?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:56

A rules interpreter is someone who um takes the rules um that are written in the rule book and interprets them to the board, teaches them to the board, um, and you know, when situations come up, um basically share how they should be how certain rules should be adjudicated um and uh and followed. Do you believe you've mastered the rules? Um, I don't believe anybody ever masters um anything, because again, that would be perfection. Um I think I know the rules just as well um as most people or anyone else. Maybe then if not the person that actually wrote write the rules, wrote the rules.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:48

So there's a shot of humbleness because mastery, he doesn't believe he has mastered the rules. I would consider you a master at this craft, no pause. Uh, but mastery is also a level of expertise. There's a humbleness I'm talking about, people. How does one become a rules interpreter?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:08

Uh well, on our board, you're appointed. So, um, but on most boards, you're usually voted in. Uh, I know the secretary rules editor at the NCA level, that's uh that's a voted that's an elected position.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:22

Understand people, what John is leaving out is that you need to be a respected person where the board feels that you have a level of expertise that is compatible to the position. What is the most difficult call to make in basketball? Block charge.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:38

Why? Well, because if you're not refereeing the defense, um then you're probably gonna get that call wrong um half the time. But if you're refereing the defense, you should get that call right 90% of the time.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:58

John and I uh watch a lot of huddle clips we that send back and forth quite often. It's just and one of the things that's really hard for people, and I really hope this audience pays attention to this, darn it. You're not on the floor. And what I mean by that is you have a totally different view than what we have on the floor. Pause, breathe, remember that. Let me draw drop the mic. What is the most challenging part of being a rules interpreter?

SPEAKER_01 1:31:22

Um, probably to get the entire board on no pun intended, on board with um enforcing them the rules the way they're the way they were written, and making sure that people aren't interpreting their own set of rules and following their own way rather than following the way that the rules are written in the in the book.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:47

You mentioned earlier that your mentor got you started in the officiating world, and I really appreciate that. What is the most egregious behavior you've ever seen from a coach andor player while you're officiating? I'm guessing this was Rob Palmery.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:05

No, it wasn't Rob, um, because I never officiated when Rob was coaching. All right. Um, but probably the most egregious behavior I've ever seen um was a player throwing a punch at another player. What level of uh junior college.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:21

Junior college. Did did the person connect? Yes, she did. Oh, she? What ended up for for the audience would uh would want to know what happens after that? Oh, a lot of ejections. A lot of ejections. So one person throws a punch and many people, because people don't know why there are many ejections.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:39

Uh one person throws a punch, the other person reacts, many other people react and come off the bench and want to join in. Um and as soon as you come off the bench, those are automatic ejections. There you go, people.

SPEAKER_04 1:32:52

A lot of people don't know that. A lot of people don't don't know that. What lessons can people take away from basketball?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:00

Competitiveness, um, doing the right thing, hustle. Sportsmanship. Sportsmanship.

SPEAKER_04 1:33:08

Have you ever thought about how basketball can also teach you pause and reflection? Oh, sure, sure. Can teach you humbleness too. Indeed. Well stated, sir. I know we talked about giving back as something you noted when people be considering officiating sports, and I really applaud that mindset. There is a shortage of officials across athletics, John. Why?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:34

From your perspective? Um pretty similar to the reason why you what you said earlier, people don't want to be cursed by fans, coaches, they're two feet from you know from the action. Um they they don't want to be yelled at. Is there a remedy? Is there a remedy? Um what should be done? Remedy would be hold people accountable for their unsportsmanlike behavior. Um do the right thing as an official from the beginning, set the tone, don't let things get out of hand. Um and enforce the rules as written. If you we enforce the re it's it's funny because I said this to um a group the other day, that the reason we have points of emphasis every year is because we don't make those we don't emphasize those rules. One of the one of the points of emphasis every year is enforce the rules as written. Well, why is that a point of emphasis if we weren't doing that? Well, it's a point of emphasis because we're not doing that. We're not enforcing the rules as written. Um and unfortunately you see it at every level. And um, you know, it's I just don't understand why you call a game one way one night and call it a different way another night when the rules are the rules.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:12

Do you think there should be any consequence to the head coach of UConn cursing in the third quarter last night during a live interview?

SPEAKER_01 1:35:24

I don't know that there should be consequence for him venting his frustration, but I do think there should be consequence for him for what he did after the game. At the end of the game.

SPEAKER_04 1:35:41

So are you saying that it's okay for him to considering who's watching the game, and I'm trickling down to middle school students, that that's okay to see.

SPEAKER_01 1:35:51

I don't know, I don't think that's okay to see, but I understand, I don't know that there should be, I don't know if there's unfortunately we all we all have frustration throughout an event. Um I have frustration as an official, coaches have frustration as coaches, players have frustration as players.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:11

But when you get officiated, when you I apologize, when you get offended or upset at a coach, and they've crossed the line with you, you're not going to the point. I know you're not. You're not going to get them.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:26

Exactly my point. No, I'm not going to swear at them. I'm going to use the tools in my toolbox to take care of business. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:33

Correct. So why does John Perry choose to go to the tools in the toolboxes, yet you're okay with the frustrations?

SPEAKER_01 1:36:40

I didn't say I was okay with what he did. Okay. I said I don't know that there should be consequences from a like I didn't say punitive.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:49

That doesn't necessarily mean consequences could be something like I think he definitely should be reprimanded for his actions.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:56

Yes. He and he should apologize for his actions. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:00

What I'm thinking, but that's us.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:02

But I don't know that he'll do that. Um and I think I think a lot of times our ego gets the best of us. Is that called being human? Uh it is called being human. Um and when our ego gets the best of us, we don't always do the right thing.

SPEAKER_04 1:37:21

And it's also you that's when we define character because it's what you do after that's important. Correct. That's I'm gonna argue that's what impacts your legacy. You've already mentioned several items, my friends, that what makes a good official, I really appreciate that. And I really hope that people who are considering getting involved uh listen to what John has had to say about that. I've observed many officials and professionals who are just out there for the pay, don't have any interest in improving or believe that they are in fact better than they actually are. Do you have any advice or thoughts for such people?

SPEAKER_01 1:38:02

Well, I'm gonna tell you this, okay? I have done games for free. I will continue to do games for free, and I'm not out there for the pay. Um, I'm trying to give back to the game. Um and I'm trying to do the best job that I can do and try to teach others to do the best job that they can do so that officials aren't looked at in a negative um light. I think the best official is one that when the game starts, the ball is thrown up, and when the game ends, the horn blows and there's a final score, and nobody knew who was officiating that game. And that and then they didn't even know that the officials were on the floor.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:55

One night I was on the floor and I was being observed by some senior people, and because I was being observed by some senior people, I tend to be more serious because you don't want to make mistakes. Your intention, I can just speak to my own intentions, is to honor those who got you there. And someone told me that I need to officiate like Doc. And I didn't know what, and I do know what that means, but which leads me to my question, because I like to laugh just like you. We like to laugh, we like to have fun. We understand through our experiences when it's really important to take things that serious. Basketball's not that serious. There's no way. How do you convey to people, the audience, or somebody who is considering that you need to have fun? When is it fun to be an official?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:53

Okay, so um probably up until, let's see, I've been officiating since 2008. So probably up until three years ago, um, I too was told you're too serious, you don't have fun, you need to relax. Um, and I do have fun officiating. I I truly enjoy officiating. Someone says to me, Well, how do you how do you relieve stress? And you know, I go officiate and they say that relieves stress. Yeah, it's fun for me. But it's also serious, and I take it serious. So although I'm having fun, I might not be smiling 100% of the time, but I'm still enjoying myself because I'm enjoying doing something that I love to do, that I do my best at when I'm doing it, and that I take very seriously. Because I again I'm not the type of person that um just talks the talk. I want to walk the walk. Clearly. Thank you for that. Um, and I I try to lead by example. And if I'm going to be a rules interpreter and an instructor, then I'm going to teach you how to do things. Well, if I'm going to do things that are totally different out on the floor, that's not really leading by example. That's not walking the walk. That's just talking the talk.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:31

To my students and mentees, did you hear what he just said? It's really, really important that you take the time to talk to people, spend time with people who are telling you the cornerstones. Because what John is just noting, these are things that go well beyond basketball. He's talking about life. And you have to surround yourself with people to do exactly what he aspires to do, and that is to model what he is what he is seeking. Last question I have for you, my friend, is what do you want people to know about being the rules interpreter? Why is it so important that John Perry specifically is a rules interpreter?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:13

I don't think it's important that John Perry specifically is the rules interpreter, but I think it's important that people know that if we don't follow the rules the way we're supposed to, then chaos happens, organized chaos happens. Um, and I've observed games, I observe games at the Division I level, I watch games, I um observe fellow officials, and I see where when the rules are not followed, when they're interpreted in personal individuals sense of of interpretation rather than the way the rule was actually written and should be interpreted, then um you have organized chaos out on the floor.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:04

I do have one additional question. When will you know it's time to get off the floor? When I'm no longer having fun. Again, John is stating things that absolutely exude life. My friends, that's gonna wrap up the podcast for today. With once again, we are live on a Saturday morning special edition, day before Easter. Any final thoughts for this morning?

SPEAKER_01 1:43:29

Final thoughts. Um, I hope everyone has a blessed Easter. I hope everybody realizes what Easter, what the true meaning of Easter is, and how important um in my life this holiday is. Uh, and I hope everybody realizes that uh the best things in life are free. Um, and uh everything can be everything can be taken care of just by loving each other and seeing the goodness in people.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:01

By the way, is there an Easter egg hunt in your future? There is an Easter egg hunt tomorrow morning at my sister-in-law's house if it doesn't rain. My friends, that takes care of the podcast for today. I also want to end on a note I know you've heard multiple times throughout this podcast, and I will keep keep saying it. There's a reason why I chose John uh to come on. A, I wanted the people to get to know John. Uh A and B wanted to do uh just something additional to plug the Utica Board of Women's Basketball Officials, accomplished both of those. But I will say this, uh, and for those people who know me, know that I speak my truth. And sometimes that uh doesn't go the way that I intend, but the bottom line is I know my heart and soul are in the white right place. Well, John has been integral to why I remain a basketball official. I like to surround myself with excellence. I didn't say perfection, I said excellence. Uh I cannot tell you the breadth and depth of uh the quantity of times I've called John clarity, when the brain is not working right. What is his rule? Because I just absolutely forgot it, and he has just been nothing short of magnificent. When you get to the point in your life where you start to officiate or start to do anything in honor of somebody, that's when the truth is told. And last year, uh, against my better judgment, I decided to become, or at least to aspire to be, a varsity official and uh fought it because I just never felt that I was ready to do that. Some days I still don't. But when I got the blessing that it was time to make that transition, I made a request to the to the uh assigner of uh of our program that I knew the first person I wanted to be on the floor with, and that was John. And I really hope that you take the time to let people know where they stand to John's point before something happens. We suck at that. And we need to take the time to figure out why that is. Because I think that true friendship is one that we remind each other of what is important and also what is not important. We have to teach each other to breathe, we have to teach each other to laugh, we have to teach each other to pause, and my God, we certainly have to teach each other how to take care of our lives. Because as John can tell you, as I can tell you, we both have had experiences where the man upstairs will take what you will value on his terms and on his timeline. That has been an undertone of what John Perry has brought to the table this morning. That has been an undertone of what John Perry brings to his professional world, and I can stand on a mountaintop and say without pause, that is what John Perry brings to the board of Utica basketball officials for women. He is just that kind of a class act. My friend, have a wonderful day today and a wonderful Easter. It is an honor to my friend. Happy Easter.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:11

Happy Easter, Doc.

SPEAKER_03 1:47:12

Thank you. This has been another episode of the Good News Podcast, once again brought to you by the Os for.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:23

Yep. This has been another podcast brought to you by the Oxford Road Professional Group into Hartford, New York. Thank you, Bill Borrell. This represents episode number four. This is really not going well, John. This has been another episode of Dasful Monte, the good news podcast, brought to you by the Oxford Road Professional Group into Hartford, New York. Real special thanks to our friend, Mr. Bill Burrell, who apparently has a long history with John Perry. Gotta get some real stories about you, Bill. You know I'm gonna find out the truth. But at any rate, once again, this represents season number four, episode number number one. Great to be out of the gate. No better way to be out of the gate with somebody who I perceive as just one inspirational human being. Thank you. Have a great day, everybody, and remain well. This has been another episode of Dasful Monte, the Good News Podcast. As always, thank you to our guests for the honor of their time and their contribution. The good news podcast is brought to you by the Oxford Road Professional Group in New Hartford, New York. I am the Good Doctor, and as always, thank you for making time to consider not only the good news, but Das Full Monte, the Good News Podcast, Carpe Diem and Donna Dago Ahi, which is Cherokee for until we meet again. Remain well.