How to Use Data to Improve your Classroom with Dr. Matthew Courtney

As a teacher, have you ever asked (or been tempted to ask) WHY are we doing this?!

If so, you aren’t alone. Collecting and analyzing data in the classroom can give us answers to why we’re doing certain things and give us a road map for what to do next. 

In this episode of Real Teacher Talk, I sat down with Dr. Matthew Courtney to discuss all things data! We chat about how to use data to solve problems in our classrooms, how to use the data you’re already collecting, and the mindset shift that needs to happen around data collection in education as a whole. We also discuss realistic ways for classroom teachers to get involved in policy change!

Dr. Matthew Courtney specializes in using data and research to support schools and teachers as they work to improve teaching and learning. As an educator, researcher, and policy maker, he focuses his efforts on building capacity in teachers and leaders to perform deep analyses of learning. When educators are faced with persistent problems of practice, he shows them how to tap into the existing research literature to solve their problems and to apply research methodologies to rigorously test their solutions. Dr. Courtney is dedicated to helping the education profession fully self-actualize into an evidence-based profession that relies on deep thinking, collaboration, and a joint commitment towards advancing scientific knowledge of teaching and learning in the field.

If you loved Dr. Courtney’s tips and want to learn more, make sure to head to his website!

Resources Mentioned:

Dr. Matthew Courtney’s Website 

Follow Dr. Matthew Courtney on Twitter

Watch Dr. Matthew Courtney on YouTube

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Transcript

Kristen Donegan  00:03

Hey everybody, welcome back to real teacher talk. If you have ever wondered what to do as far as data collection, how to use that data, what to do with it all to be the best educator that you can be, you are in luck, because today we have Dr. Matthew Courtney. He specializes and using data and research to sport to support schools and teachers like you, as they work to improve teaching and learning. He has been an educator or researcher and a policymaker and focuses on his efforts on building capacity and teachers and leaders to perform a deep analysis of learning. So Matthew, welcome. Thanks for being here.

00:47

Hi, thanks so much for having me.

Kristen Donegan  00:49

Just reading all that I'm like, Wow. He's probably the smartest person we've had on here so far. So thanks. Can you tell us a bit before we kind of get started a bit about your education background? And how you got to be where you're at today?

01:06

Yeah, I'd love to. So I started my career as an elementary music teacher, I taught kindergarten through fifth grade general music and choir and just loved every minute of it. But was frustrated as a teacher, as I think probably many of your listeners often are, with the sort of mandates and changes and sort of why are we doing all this stuff that we're doing? That was always really frustrating to me. And so I was really interested early on in my career and the why, why are we doing this? And my principal would drive him crazy, because I would go to him and say, why are we doing this? And he could never tell me why. And so that's where for me research and data became a passion because I think teachers are so overworked our schools are asked to solve all of society's ails. And if we can learn to use research and data and make decisions, I think we can make better smarter decisions. If nothing else, we can rationalize the decisions that we're making, we can make intentional decisions. And so when my school closed, I had an opportunity to transition into full time school improvement work. And I've been doing that work ever since.

Kristen Donegan  02:15

So cool. I bet all the teachers right now as they're driving to school, like praise hands, like oh, my gosh, I could totally relate. Very cool. You said program improvement. That's right. So are you because I've worked at schools that were in program improvement? How did you get into that?

02:34

Yeah. So really, from a place of wandering and curiosity. I had been working at this work in the nonprofit sector for a while where I was really working on helping teachers learn how to use research to make better decisions and improve their own teaching and learning. And then I had an opportunity to move into a more formal role where I was working with schools who had those sorts of identifications, right. There's sort of federal classifications, and really digging in deep to say, Okay, how do we make this process feel meaningful for schools who have sort of fallen victim to this federal policy? And so that's where a lot of my data and research work today is situated and really thinking about how do we improve with intentionality?

Kristen Donegan  03:22

I love that. And I love that you said schools, you know, who are receiving like the funding rather than it just being a it's a title one school? Because it's not. I mean, that's a whole other issue, but it's just you receive title and financing. That's,

03:35

that's really Yes. It's just one of many factors that describes your school. Oh,

Kristen Donegan  03:39

yeah. Oh, my goodness. I know. I know. I Yeah. My views on all that has changed them, the longer I've been in education. But I appreciate you for, for saying that. So you talk about data and research and things like that. What would you say to an educator who maybe has some sort of challenge something happening in their classroom? What steps could they take to use data or research to try to figure out a solution?

04:05

I love that question. Because so often as a classroom teacher, we're in our four walls, and we can feel so isolated and alone. But the good news is, you're not alone. We have a global network of teachers and researchers who are studying education every day. And so the problems that you're facing are not unique to you in your classroom. They exist in schools all over the world. And so if we can learn to tap into research, and find sort of solutions to our problems, learn if we can learn how to test and replicate those solutions in our classroom. We can solve them much faster. One of my favorite stories from my time as a classroom teacher, I really struggled with the unsharpened pencil. That was my nemesis. I taught groups of 30 kids every 30 minutes rotating in and out and so by the end of the day, I'm gonna had hundreds of unsharpened pencils just chilling in a drawer and who It's time to sharpen them. Because the pencil sharpener, they can do 100 pencils, I mean, you do five and they burn out. And so when I was teaching, I said, Okay, there's got to be a solution to this. And I stumbled upon an article about using ink pen in sort of a writer's workshop setting. And, you know, ink pens in the music classroom are like a huge nono, even like all through college and my music teacher training, I never carried an ink pen because ever write in music with an ink pen. Why is that? Well has to do a lot with copies and copyright law. It also has to do with the changes from director to Director a lot of times we share music. So it's a huge No, no in the music environment. And I thought well, but maybe in my passion, this could work. And so I found all this research about using ink pens and benefits of that implemented that in classroom threw all my pencils away, it was the greatest thing. So it's one of those things that's so silly, right? It's, it feels like such a trivial thing to be like, Oh, unsharpened pencils. But for me in the moment, that was a huge burden that was then creating sort of this domino effect of classroom management challenges and preparation challenges and planning time challenges. And the research helped me solve that with such a simple, cheap and lasting solution.

Kristen Donegan  06:17

I love that that's a lot. Actually, what we do in our program for teachers is where I looked at problems I was facing, and I'm like, Okay, how can I streamline this or make it easier so that we can maximize the shorter amount of instructional time you have every single day without needing to drink a bottle of wine every night? Looking for those solutions? Now, how do educators know like what type of data to even collect to even come up with a solution? Like what would that look like?

06:50

Now when I say we need to be looking at data, a lot of educators kind of bristle because they think, Oh, here's another little education consultant guy who's telling me I have to do something else. And that's not what I'm telling you. Teachers are already collecting mountains of data every day, you collect attendance data, you collect behavior data, you collect grades, formative assessment, summative assessment, you do emotion checks on your kids, you're doing this work already. So what I want to help teachers do is say, Okay, I've got this mountain of data, what am I doing with it? How am I using it. And so that's where why I wrote the book, exploratory data analysis in the classroom, because this is a technique that uses very simple techniques that you can learn very quickly. In any spreadsheet software, and mine insights out of your data, I like to say exploratory data analysis is like having a conversation with data, instead of interrogating it, which is what a lot of us learn to do in college right, we ask a question, we find an answer. This is more about, let's look at all the data and let's see what anomalies are there? And what can we learn about our kids from those anomalies, it's a very relaxed, a very laid back way of working with data. And in a way of working with data that doesn't require you to really do anything that you're not already doing.

Kristen Donegan  08:08

So what would you say to the teacher right now driving to school who's like, that sounds amazing. I don't have a ton of time, like you don't know my classroom, or you don't know what it's going on this year? What would you say to them?

08:19

Yeah. So I think, if you aren't collecting data systemically, already, if it's not a natural byproduct, then start with the data points that make the most sense to you. So this is a rule that I apply in lots of different contexts. Standardized testing is a good conversation, because there's teachers who are very strongly opinionated on one side or the other, in between. And so if standardized testing doesn't feel meaningful to you, don't spend your time working with it. Think about what you've what you're collecting what matters to you, and focus on those pieces of data first. And what I found in working with hundreds of teachers over the years is that if you can start with the pieces that really matter to you, then you start to see how other pieces also matter to you down the road. And I also think, you know, think unconventionally, about the kinds of data that you're using. So a piece of data that a lot of teachers don't think about is telephone numbers. How many times does this child's telephone number change over the course of the year? That's, we all have, right? We all have our rolodexes or our planner books or whatever, where we've crossed out a phone number written a new one in and if you've got a kid who's changing their phone number four or five times, that's a metric of social instability in that kid's home life. It's data that you already have, but we just don't think about it that

Kristen Donegan  09:36

way. I would never have even thought to even look at that. What would you do if maybe that's hard to even figure out like a lot of the times I didn't even know if their phone numbers changing so then then what are what's another maybe example that you could use?

09:53

Yeah, another fun one that I like to use. You know how we all have like the clipboards and we're walking around doing kind of those quick checks and check minuses right? We do those formative checks. So something I often tell teachers to add to that is like maybe a smiley face or a sad face. So the kid got it, check, how do they feel about it? Happy face or sad face. And that's just like one extra little thing. It takes you a 10th of a second longer to do. But it gives you a whole other data point, because maybe it's great. Everybody is learning the task. But if my kids are miserable, that's something that I need to know

Kristen Donegan  10:30

if they're in tears. But they got it.

10:34

Exactly what are we really doing here?

Kristen Donegan  10:37

I love that. What would you say? Because a lot of teachers are collecting you say data, I say data doesn't matter which way it doesn't matter. All right, um, maybe because I'm on on the West Coast? I don't know. But who were like, Okay, great. I have all of this. And I'm presenting this to admin into caregivers. But it seems like no one's listening to me, or wanting to support or have the capabilities to even support what this child needs, then one?

11:05

Yeah, I always say that a evidence informed educator is an empowered educator. And so the more that we can use data and include that research element to make stronger cases for our kids, the more successful that we're going to be in the long run, it is a mind shift change. For a lot of people, a lot of administrators, a lot of elected officials, a lot of parents who are very involved in your school, are not going to be ready to think about that next step. But the more that you can kind of bring that into the conversation, the more that you can point to specific pieces of data, specific pieces of research that support the change that needs to happen, the stronger your arguments going to be. And eventually, somebody's going to hear you. But we kind of all have to pull up and do it together. Because we really are changing the mindset of the whole field.

Kristen Donegan  11:55

Well, I think that's even a bigger issue, though. When it's like, it's not just your admin, then it's because they have the district and then there's like all these policies and different things. It's way at the tippy top there. And I think sometimes maybe that's why educators feel so defeated, because it's like, I can only do so much in my classroom. And it's such a bigger issue. Yeah. Why do you think that is?

12:17

Yeah, I think that's a great point. And, and I can certainly remember those days of feeling like I'm at the bottom of the avalanche. I've been in other roles. I've been in nonprofit leadership, I've been in education, agency leadership, and university leadership, and every position that I've landed in, in education, I still feel like I'm at the bottom of the avalanche, because there's just so many more people up above me. One thing I always tell educators who want to become better advocates and use research and data to advocate is to fight the fights where the fight lives. And so when you've got to challenge, the first thing to think about in that policy challenge is who actually made this decision? Am I mad at my principal because of a decision that my school board made? Well, that's not fair. And it's not changing anything? Am I mad at my school board for a decision that the federal government made, that's not fair. And that's not changing anything. So really taking the time to understand where that frustration actually belongs, can get you a long way, in terms of your advocacy. And I also think just in terms of your own sort of mental health and happiness, because if I'm always blaming everything on my principal, and it's not their fault, that's having a daily impact on my own mental and physical health, too.

Kristen Donegan  13:30

I know they're in such a lose situation. They really are. Never,

13:34

hardest job in education, I think is that if the principle

Kristen Donegan  13:37

right, so if you know, though, it's way above and beyond? Where do you put that energy? Or where do you focus?

13:47

Yeah, so I think, yeah, that's a great question. I think there's a couple of ways to think about this. So first, once you figure out where that fight really belongs, where who owns that frustration, really, I think that is very empowering and in and of itself, and being able to really engage in the process. So you have to learn how is policy made at that process? So if it's at your local school board level, what is the process for engaging in that policy? Is it a public comment? Is it Do they accept written comments or their work sessions? If it's a state or federal level? Do I have a relationship with my local elected officials, you should have relationships with your local elected officials, and they can help engage in those conversations with you. So I think it's very empowering in that sense. I also think sometimes it helps us to go well, in my position, and with the capacity and time and space that I have right now. I can't fight the federal government. So I'm just going to kind of take this one, do the best I can with it, and wait until I have an opportunity to inject in the policy space in a space where I can do that right now.

Kristen Donegan  14:57

Seeing that so tricky because I think so many edge caterers want to, and because they're already overworked. It's like I don't have the capacity to even make a change. And then it just becomes this cycle of, you know, next thing, you know, 50 years down the line, it's so, you know,

15:16

I think too, that's where your professional associations come into play. That's where our nonprofit sector comes into play. So maybe you can't take off from work and go lobby the federal government, most teachers can't I don't think I know any teachers who have the ability to do that. But you can contribute and be a part of the National Education Association, the American Federation of Teachers, or your content area, right. So I was part of the National Association for Music Educators when I was a classroom teacher, and being able to leverage those connections and those affiliations to elevate your voice when you don't have capacity to do it right now.

Kristen Donegan  15:52

I love that and voting. I mean, I really do vote on that.

15:57

Right? Being an engaged citizen all the way around. Yeah,

Kristen Donegan  16:00

sorry, I got us a little off topic. But I know teachers have wanted to, like, kind of have some of that power back or like, How can I actually make a change? And those are some really great ideas, especially for teachers who are overwhelmed. Right now. So all of them. So what do you see right now? How are educators using research to inform their decisions and instruction and all that good stuff?

16:28

Yeah, one of the spaces I'm doing a lot of work in right now is around action research, and really thinking about how can I take research methods and actually use them in my classroom, engage my students in that process to see if my innovations are working or not. I always like to say action research is kind of how we work smarter, not harder in education, because we're always innovating and teachers are doing some really cool stuff. But if we can apply that Research Lens and really evaluate what we're doing, is it really working? Or is it just fun? Until we like it, right? That's a question that we have to grapple with? Or is it working, but we don't like it? So we think it's not working? Right? So there's a lot of like, emotional stuff that comes into this. And if we can kind of put that research layer on top of it, I think we can make much more clear decisions, much more sound decisions and do so little faster,

Kristen Donegan  17:19

and love that. So when you walk into a classroom, how can you tell if the teachers use evidence or data to inform their instruction? Like, what are the telltale signs?

17:31

Yeah, another awesome question. I think one thing that you can always tell if data has been used to inform instruction is the kind of work that the kids are doing. And are all the kids doing the same thing. So we've talked for more than a decade about differentiation and those kinds of things, but really doing that with a meaningful lens and thinking about what is the data say today about this kid today, you can really tell when teachers are thinking at that individual student level, I think you can see that really clearly. I also think, in conversation with that teacher before after that lesson. Don't talk to teachers during their lessons. That's so rude. Before After that lesson, having that conversation, why did you do that? My did you have this activity instead of this activity? Or I noticed the teacher across the hall was teaching the same content, but they did a different activity. Why did you make the decision that you made, an evidence informed educator will always be able to tell you why. And it's going to be the most rich, insightful reason and rationale you've ever heard is going to blow you away every time.

Kristen Donegan  18:39

I love that. How often do you get to do that? Like walking into classrooms and seeing what's going on? Yeah,

18:43

I do that as much as I can. I tried to get into school several times a month, I also travel and do trainings. And so that allows me to build this sort of national network of teachers who I stay in touch with, through my website and social media. And so a lot of times they'll send me things and say, oh, you know, oh, we talked about this, I did it. And here's this really cool thing that happened. So that's always really fun for me to get to see that.

Kristen Donegan  19:06

That's so cool. And I love on principles. I know, most people would say no, but I used to have a principal who would walk through daily, just to see what's going on, just to check in. And I love when admins are more involved like that, so they can see all the wonderful things happening.

19:23

Yeah, I think that they really should be and that's part of being an evidence informed administrator as well. Because if we think about you know, do you it's the same thing, right. So I asked the teacher, why did you do what you did? Can we ask the principal the same thing? Why did Mr. Mrs. So and so do what they did. And that's very much part of being an evidence informed administrator is understanding and being able to give that power to those teachers to make those evidence informed decisions, and then share that back with you. Because the beauty of evidence is, is when we share it, right. So I can do all kinds of innovations in my classroom, but if I I'm the only one who ever sees them. They're not helping them, the other teachers, the other administrators, other schools, district states that are having the same problem that I'm having. And so really sharing that work engaging in those conversations, I think it's really important.

Kristen Donegan  20:12

You would be an amazing admin. I don't know if you said that. But those who hear you I'm like, you gotta you got your thinking. And just explaining I wish, you know, we all had more principals who had that same. Just that same train of thought. Now, we know the research and data is there, right? When we talk about best practices for teaching? What would you say to a teacher who may be as frustrated, because they know what the best practices are? They know what the data says. But they're continually asked to go against their research.

20:46

And I think that's, that's where those conversations are so important. And being able to empower yourself with that information and advocate for yourself and your students. And the challenge of being an advocate is you're going to lose more than you're going to win, right? But every time we can kind of chip away at why are we doing this? And this doesn't make sense. Or this is working better for me. Why am I not allowed to do it? Every time we can chip away, we get closer and closer to being fully evidence informed profession.

Kristen Donegan  21:13

Don't you think too, there's like a way to go about it as well, when you're bringing up concerns and things like this. I've learned that the hard way. Oh, yeah,

21:25

calmness, always better calm and rational. Felt like in this sort of post COVID? I don't know. I could say post COVID yet, but whatever knows. Yeah. This time that we're hitting today, I felt like it's the louder you are, the more effective you think you are. But really, that is not getting you where you need to be. We need to think about calm, rational, detailed decisions and arguments.

Kristen Donegan  21:50

That makes sense. Totally makes sense. All right. My last question, I'm wondering, you've shared some really great ideas and tools and things to look at and analyze and, and data to collect. Is there anything out there that's really simple, easy to use, that can support teachers in the data collection process?

22:10

Yeah, I've worked on a lot of work in that space. And on my website, there's a section called the repository. So if you go to Matthew b courtney.com, and click on the repository right at the top, this is where all my free tools live, I have six auto analysis tools. And so teachers can upload spreadsheets to those tools, and they will spit out instantaneously. All kinds of statistics and graphs and charts so that you don't have to spend time doing that you can just interpret and make decisions. They work so fast that if you follow me on Twitter, you'll see that I post gifs of them in action, because they really are so fast that I can make those two second little gift videos and, and share that. So I would encourage teachers to use those, they are free. And they will be free forever. I'm committed to that.

Kristen Donegan  22:57

That's awesome. We will leave a link I was actually playing around with them earlier just to see what's there. Especially for your teachers, he do a lot of things with Google Forms and spreadsheets or you're collecting work Google Classroom that way. That's something you can just download that and then upload it to there and kind of see, see who's going to the bathroom all the time? Or when are they going or, you know, you can figure out you can figure out why. Super cool. Where else can everyone find you and connect?

23:25

Yeah, so Twitter, and YouTube and my website, those are really the best ways to get me. I'm also super communicative. So if you follow me on Twitter, you log into my website, drop me a message, I will always respond to you. I love to sort of engage with teachers. And even if you're just stuck, you don't know what to do. And you just need a word of advice. I'm always happy to offer that as well. I love connecting with classroom teachers at something that I just don't get to do enough. And love

Kristen Donegan  23:53

it. Well, we'll leave all those links in the show notes. And before we go, we have been playing word association games. I don't know if we shared that with you or not. But I've got a couple words. I just want to I want you to share like the first thing that comes to mind. Okay, when you hear it, it's nothing scary, I promise. All right. First word, data.

24:13

Insight.

Kristen Donegan  24:15

pineapple on pizza. Delicious. Thank you. You're the first person All right, since you work with little ones you feel really wet shoelaces.

24:27

Oh, Jeremy. Rigor, misunderstood.

Kristen Donegan  24:34

The teacher interviewed last week, she said, mortis. She's like, Oh, no, that was not the case. All right. Last one. cafeteria food.

24:47

The most important food in town.

Kristen Donegan  24:50

Really? Well. I do know why you say that. That makes sense. Do you guys have that just by where you're at? We're in California today. Are they doing free? You breakfasts and lunches right now. Is that a federal thing right now? We're just mistaken.

25:04

It's federal thing states have to opt into it. So a little bit of both.

Kristen Donegan  25:08

Got it. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much for being here and taking time out of your busy day. We really, really appreciate it and just sharing your knowledge and your value with educators everywhere. Yeah.

25:19

Thanks for having me. Had a great time.

Kristen Donegan  25:21

And everyone else, thanks for being here. We'll see you next week. In the meantime, make sure to take some time for yourself today. You deserve it. You work hard and you need some rest as well. Alright, see you next week.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

teachers, data, educators, classroom, research, decisions, pencils, school, education, principal, ink pen, collect, feel, kinds, engage, conversation, informed, solution, kids, classroom teacher