{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":10.44,"endTime":12.57,"body":"Hello, and"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":10.44,"endTime":12.57,"body":"welcome to design education"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":12.57,"endTime":16.95,"body":"talks by the new art school. Our"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":12.57,"endTime":16.95,"body":"guest today is Justus Theinert ."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":18.12,"endTime":19.2,"body":"Welcome, Justus!"},{"speaker":"Justus Theinert","startTime":19.95,"endTime":23.07,"body":"Hey, thanks for"},{"speaker":"Justus Theinert","startTime":19.95,"endTime":23.07,"body":"inviting me. I'm curious about"},{"speaker":"Justus Theinert","startTime":23.07,"endTime":23.55,"body":"this talk."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":24.09,"endTime":26.52,"body":"It's a real"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":24.09,"endTime":26.52,"body":"pleasure to have you here. So"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":26.52,"endTime":28.29,"body":"tell us about you and your"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":26.52,"endTime":28.29,"body":"fantastic work."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":30.03,"endTime":33.81,"body":"Well, it's just getting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":30.03,"endTime":33.81,"body":"old. And it's not so easy to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":33.81,"endTime":37.53,"body":"understand where to start. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":33.81,"endTime":37.53,"body":"actually, my interest in design"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":37.53,"endTime":42.48,"body":"education came from my studies."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":37.53,"endTime":42.48,"body":"So when I studied industrial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":42.48,"endTime":47.79,"body":"design at the academy, Art"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":42.48,"endTime":47.79,"body":"Academy in Stoker, I had the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":47.79,"endTime":52.68,"body":"feeling that's, that's not all,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":47.79,"endTime":52.68,"body":"there must be more than that. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":52.68,"endTime":58.8,"body":"I actually, I tried to get a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":52.68,"endTime":58.8,"body":"scholarship, which I got"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":58.86,"endTime":65.16,"body":"finally, and so my, my idea was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":58.86,"endTime":65.16,"body":"to travel Europe, and visit all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":65.16,"endTime":70.56,"body":"the important design schools in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":65.16,"endTime":70.56,"body":"Europe, and make a kind of short"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":70.65,"endTime":78.63,"body":"field inquiry of what design"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":70.65,"endTime":78.63,"body":"education is. And luckily, I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":78.63,"endTime":84.45,"body":"able to travel for one year and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":78.63,"endTime":84.45,"body":"visit to many university just to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":84.45,"endTime":89.88,"body":"mention here and ever since it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":84.45,"endTime":89.88,"body":"was my Well, yeah, my main"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":89.88,"endTime":90.48,"body":"interest."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":93.57,"endTime":98.7,"body":"Okay, so but"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":93.57,"endTime":98.7,"body":"you studied, you studied what"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":98.7,"endTime":99.15,"body":"exactly?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":99.96,"endTime":103.08,"body":"I studied industrial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":99.96,"endTime":103.08,"body":"design. And I worked as an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":103.08,"endTime":106.89,"body":"industrial designer for quite a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":103.08,"endTime":106.89,"body":"long time. So I try to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":107.55,"endTime":113.49,"body":"experience every how to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":107.55,"endTime":113.49,"body":"every context, which you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":113.49,"endTime":117.33,"body":"imagine. So I had my own studio"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":113.49,"endTime":117.33,"body":"for five or six years, I worked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":117.33,"endTime":122.67,"body":"with industry like Mercedes Benz"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":117.33,"endTime":122.67,"body":"for three years. So I tried"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":122.7,"endTime":128.19,"body":"actually all kinds of contexts."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":122.7,"endTime":128.19,"body":"And it was amazing. So I did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":128.19,"endTime":132.0,"body":"from investment goods,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":128.19,"endTime":132.0,"body":"machinery, design, colour"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":132.0,"endTime":138.18,"body":"design, interior. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":132.0,"endTime":138.18,"body":"one of the amazing facts of our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":138.18,"endTime":143.1,"body":"profession that you actually can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":138.18,"endTime":143.1,"body":"step into different fields"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":143.1,"endTime":148.23,"body":"whenever you feel the best, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":143.1,"endTime":148.23,"body":"longest period was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":148.23,"endTime":150.15,"body":"furniture, furniture design."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":152.73,"endTime":154.71,"body":"What exactly"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":152.73,"endTime":154.71,"body":"in any particular piece of"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":154.71,"endTime":155.19,"body":"furniture?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":155.43,"endTime":160.08,"body":"Well, it was mainly"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":155.43,"endTime":160.08,"body":"office furniture, office seats"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":160.08,"endTime":165.09,"body":"and tables and systems. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":160.08,"endTime":165.09,"body":"was, yeah, interesting and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":165.09,"endTime":168.12,"body":"challenging. At the same time,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":165.09,"endTime":168.12,"body":"it was furnitures, very close to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.12,"endTime":172.14,"body":"interior design. So I did quite"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":168.12,"endTime":172.14,"body":"some interesting projects with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.14,"endTime":176.94,"body":"that German railway, five star"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":172.14,"endTime":176.94,"body":"travelling train, which never"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":176.94,"endTime":182.55,"body":"came into realisation. So it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":176.94,"endTime":182.55,"body":"Yeah. But it was a nice project."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":184.38,"endTime":186.36,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":184.38,"endTime":186.36,"body":"So tell us about how you got"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":186.36,"endTime":187.02,"body":"into teaching."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":188.22,"endTime":191.34,"body":"I was always interested"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":188.22,"endTime":191.34,"body":"in teaching ever since I left"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":191.52,"endTime":195.18,"body":"university, and actually I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":191.52,"endTime":195.18,"body":"started teaching in the context"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.18,"endTime":200.46,"body":"of art, because friends of mine,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":195.18,"endTime":200.46,"body":"found that very special kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":200.46,"endTime":206.25,"body":"private art school. And once"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":200.46,"endTime":206.25,"body":"that was founded, it developed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":206.25,"endTime":210.69,"body":"and so step by step became"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":206.25,"endTime":210.69,"body":"bigger, and we found a new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.69,"endTime":214.83,"body":"campus. And then I was asked to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":210.69,"endTime":214.83,"body":"step in there. And it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":215.31,"endTime":221.01,"body":"actually a, the idea of Applied"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":215.31,"endTime":221.01,"body":"Arts, but not in a historic way."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":221.04,"endTime":226.35,"body":"But in a contemporary way. All"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":221.04,"endTime":226.35,"body":"the students had to do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.04,"endTime":231.42,"body":"internships in industry, as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":227.04,"endTime":231.42,"body":"artists, and they had to cope"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":231.42,"endTime":236.94,"body":"with the challenges how to act"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":231.42,"endTime":236.94,"body":"as an artist in industry. It was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.0,"endTime":240.84,"body":"a very good school, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":237.0,"endTime":240.84,"body":"exist anymore. Because after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.08,"endTime":247.83,"body":"that was cool 25 years ago. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":241.08,"endTime":247.83,"body":"it closed down about five years"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":247.83,"endTime":252.57,"body":"ago, because of political"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":247.83,"endTime":252.57,"body":"reasons. The problem was that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":253.5,"endTime":257.55,"body":"that Yogen, who was running the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":253.5,"endTime":257.55,"body":"school, actually, he wanted to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.55,"endTime":263.97,"body":"have officials, they have to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":257.55,"endTime":263.97,"body":"say, certificate, certificate,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":263.97,"endTime":267.81,"body":"yes. And then we had to change"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":263.97,"endTime":267.81,"body":"to a bachelor programme and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":269.46,"endTime":272.73,"body":"auditing and things like that."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":269.46,"endTime":272.73,"body":"And so that killed actually the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.73,"endTime":276.45,"body":"schooling, but there was no,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":272.73,"endTime":276.45,"body":"there was no other way because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.48,"endTime":281.79,"body":"the system is like that. Germany"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":276.48,"endTime":281.79,"body":"is not a good, it's not a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":282.09,"endTime":287.1,"body":"environment for private schools."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":282.09,"endTime":287.1,"body":"Not at all. Oh, because the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.46,"endTime":290.7,"body":"higher education is free. You"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":287.46,"endTime":290.7,"body":"don't have to pay for your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.7,"endTime":296.31,"body":"studies. So how would you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":290.7,"endTime":296.31,"body":"survive as an art school? It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":296.31,"endTime":297.39,"body":"so almost impossible."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":297.39,"endTime":299.13,"body":"This is very"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":297.39,"endTime":299.13,"body":"interesting. So it was what"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":299.16,"endTime":304.62,"body":"changes were you forced to do."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":299.16,"endTime":304.62,"body":"This is very interesting. What"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":304.62,"endTime":306.39,"body":"what changes were you forced to"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":304.62,"endTime":306.39,"body":"do?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.289,"endTime":310.709,"body":"Oh, it was it. Only"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.289,"endTime":310.709,"body":"former things like how many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":310.709,"endTime":315.359,"body":"books are in the library? If"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":310.709,"endTime":315.359,"body":"it's not enough? You don't write"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.359,"endTime":320.909,"body":"the stem is just for the things."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":315.359,"endTime":320.909,"body":"So the spirit of the institution"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.909,"endTime":323.309,"body":"didn't matter at all. It was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.909,"endTime":323.309,"body":"just the formula."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":324.81,"endTime":327.57,"body":"Okay, but"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":324.81,"endTime":327.57,"body":"but just about the books or if"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":327.57,"endTime":329.64,"body":"you bought the LV ours or at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.64,"endTime":331.71,"body":"end, this was the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":329.64,"endTime":331.71,"body":"programme, it was the staff, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":331.71,"endTime":336.99,"body":"was kind of the teaching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":331.71,"endTime":336.99,"body":"environment, it was almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":336.99,"endTime":341.97,"body":"everything. I think they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":336.99,"endTime":341.97,"body":"actually they had the idea to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.97,"endTime":348.84,"body":"kill private schools. So then,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.97,"endTime":348.84,"body":"the Bologna process process in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.84,"endTime":355.89,"body":"Germany had actually two focuses"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.84,"endTime":355.89,"body":"to reduce the study times two to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.89,"endTime":360.66,"body":"three years for a bachelor. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":355.89,"endTime":360.66,"body":"in Germany, a Bachelor is always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":360.69,"endTime":365.04,"body":"three years. That's the reason"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":360.69,"endTime":365.04,"body":"why, at our university, we still"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.04,"endTime":368.52,"body":"have a German diploma, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":365.04,"endTime":368.52,"body":"a four year programme. We are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":368.52,"endTime":373.44,"body":"the only one actually. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":368.52,"endTime":373.44,"body":"other one was to get rid of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":373.44,"endTime":379.83,"body":"private schools. That's what I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":373.44,"endTime":379.83,"body":"believe. That's politics. Yes."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":380.19,"endTime":383.31,"body":"So what"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":380.19,"endTime":383.31,"body":"happened after that? So after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.31,"endTime":386.64,"body":"that, so actually, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":383.31,"endTime":386.64,"body":"was teaching and I was involved"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.64,"endTime":391.08,"body":"at that school only for five"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":386.64,"endTime":391.08,"body":"years. That was during my time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.11,"endTime":397.2,"body":"at Mercedes Benz. And another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.11,"endTime":397.2,"body":"important step was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":397.2,"endTime":402.48,"body":"travelling to China. For many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":397.2,"endTime":402.48,"body":"reasons, for many reasons, I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.48,"endTime":405.9,"body":"actually forced to travel to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":402.48,"endTime":405.9,"body":"China, I didn't intend to do so."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":406.41,"endTime":411.24,"body":"It was 1997. So I was assistant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":406.41,"endTime":411.24,"body":"professor at the Stuttgart"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.24,"endTime":418.17,"body":"Academy. And my boss, intended"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":411.24,"endTime":418.17,"body":"to travel to China, with 20"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":418.17,"endTime":422.49,"body":"students and ash would take care"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":418.17,"endTime":422.49,"body":"of 20 students in Beijing, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":422.49,"endTime":427.17,"body":"was not my favourite waste of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":422.49,"endTime":427.17,"body":"time. So I said, No, I wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.29,"endTime":431.46,"body":"do that. So my colleague, she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":427.29,"endTime":431.46,"body":"wanted to do it, but she became"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":431.46,"endTime":436.14,"body":"pregnant. So I was, she didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":431.46,"endTime":436.14,"body":"want to fly. Long Haul tonight,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":437.34,"endTime":443.88,"body":"due to the radiation, so I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":437.34,"endTime":443.88,"body":"forced to travel to Beijing. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":443.88,"endTime":448.29,"body":"the funny thing happened when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":443.88,"endTime":448.29,"body":"opened, when I when I smelled"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":448.29,"endTime":451.38,"body":"the air Beijing, it was like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":448.29,"endTime":451.38,"body":"walking down the stairs from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.38,"endTime":458.34,"body":"plane, there was no know how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.38,"endTime":458.34,"body":"say contemporary airport at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.34,"endTime":462.84,"body":"time. And when I smelled it, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.34,"endTime":462.84,"body":"felt at home the first time in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":462.84,"endTime":468.24,"body":"my life. So it was a very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":462.84,"endTime":468.24,"body":"interesting, no, it was a life"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.24,"endTime":472.77,"body":"changing moment. It was yes. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.24,"endTime":472.77,"body":"I don't know the reason why, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.77,"endTime":481.29,"body":"ever since I travelled to China,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.77,"endTime":481.29,"body":"quite often, and China, we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.29,"endTime":487.8,"body":"talk about the Chinese spirit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":481.29,"endTime":487.8,"body":"philosophy background. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":487.8,"endTime":491.13,"body":"other fact was the China was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":487.8,"endTime":491.13,"body":"developing in terms of design at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":491.13,"endTime":495.54,"body":"that time, so late 1920s. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":491.13,"endTime":495.54,"body":"there were brilliant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":495.54,"endTime":499.56,"body":"conferences. So I had all the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":495.54,"endTime":499.56,"body":"colleagues from all over the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.56,"endTime":504.99,"body":"world came to China and we had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":499.56,"endTime":504.99,"body":"the conferences there. It was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":506.28,"endTime":510.51,"body":"the best school equity imagine,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":506.28,"endTime":510.51,"body":"to talk to my colleagues there."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":513.06,"endTime":518.34,"body":"Step by step, I got deeper into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":513.06,"endTime":518.34,"body":"Chinese philosophy and Chinese"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":518.37,"endTime":525.36,"body":"thinking and Asian thinking. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":518.37,"endTime":525.36,"body":"I learned a lot for the or not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.36,"endTime":529.68,"body":"only designed education, but for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":525.36,"endTime":529.68,"body":"different kinds of thinking,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":529.68,"endTime":533.55,"body":"which could be helpful to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":529.68,"endTime":533.55,"body":"develop new ideas. And so that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.55,"endTime":537.81,"body":"was my main interest then and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":533.55,"endTime":537.81,"body":"ever since ever, when I had my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.81,"endTime":541.83,"body":"sabbatical, which is in Germany"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":537.81,"endTime":541.83,"body":"every four years. So I spent"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.83,"endTime":548.22,"body":"that time in China. So normally,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":541.83,"endTime":548.22,"body":"it was like three months a year"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.22,"endTime":555.03,"body":"in China. Another connection"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":548.22,"endTime":555.03,"body":"that to Andrew, because he has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":555.03,"endTime":562.05,"body":"kind of the same experience with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":555.03,"endTime":562.05,"body":"this Chinese background. So the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":562.08,"endTime":565.56,"body":"beginning of my Chinese travels,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":562.08,"endTime":565.56,"body":"they were very interesting,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.56,"endTime":569.73,"body":"because there were no professors"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":565.56,"endTime":569.73,"body":"for design. They hadn't been"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.73,"endTime":573.33,"body":"educated at that time. They"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":569.73,"endTime":573.33,"body":"ended up in communication, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":573.33,"endTime":578.85,"body":"that design, it was artists and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":573.33,"endTime":578.85,"body":"industrial design, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.0,"endTime":584.46,"body":"whatever it was, functionally,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":579.0,"endTime":584.46,"body":"landscape architects, so they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":584.46,"endTime":589.32,"body":"had to put someone in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":584.46,"endTime":589.32,"body":"position. That was amazing to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":589.32,"endTime":593.49,"body":"talk to those people who had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":589.32,"endTime":593.49,"body":"very high expertise and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":593.49,"endTime":598.26,"body":"competence in their field. 10"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":593.49,"endTime":598.26,"body":"years later, it changed the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":598.26,"endTime":603.66,"body":"first educated designers covert"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":598.26,"endTime":603.66,"body":"educated in China came into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":603.66,"endTime":609.84,"body":"these positions. And that was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":603.66,"endTime":609.84,"body":"bit boring. And because they're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":609.99,"endTime":617.37,"body":"too, there were too strong. I'd"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":609.99,"endTime":617.37,"body":"say developments in design"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.37,"endTime":621.99,"body":"education, the one the way it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":617.37,"endTime":621.99,"body":"started, and we'll see, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.02,"endTime":627.6,"body":"very much influenced by Japanese"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":622.02,"endTime":627.6,"body":"industrial design education. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.6,"endTime":631.05,"body":"others were influenced by German"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":627.6,"endTime":631.05,"body":"design education, there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.05,"endTime":637.2,"body":"actually not so much a British"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":631.05,"endTime":637.2,"body":"influence in the beginning. So,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.2,"endTime":642.72,"body":"these are kind of competing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":637.2,"endTime":642.72,"body":"Japanese way and, and the German"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.72,"endTime":649.14,"body":"wave as I am very critical to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":642.72,"endTime":649.14,"body":"the German way, for two reasons,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.44,"endTime":652.59,"body":"which we can talk about. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":649.44,"endTime":652.59,"body":"the Bauhaus problem and the old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":652.59,"endTime":659.19,"body":"problem. I was more interested,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":652.59,"endTime":659.19,"body":"not exactly in the Japanese way,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.19,"endTime":665.04,"body":"because that was very formal and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":659.19,"endTime":665.04,"body":"very, pseudo statistical and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":665.04,"endTime":672.96,"body":"scientifically, it was not an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":665.04,"endTime":672.96,"body":"interesting approach. So the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.99,"endTime":677.1,"body":"experiment, which I tried to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":672.99,"endTime":677.1,"body":"establish every time I travelled"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.1,"endTime":680.94,"body":"to Chinese universities is to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":677.1,"endTime":680.94,"body":"find with colleagues a new way"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":680.94,"endTime":689.34,"body":"of teaching. So I refused"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":680.94,"endTime":689.34,"body":"actually, to present standard"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.37,"endTime":696.84,"body":"German education came. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":689.37,"endTime":696.84,"body":"led to very curious situations"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.84,"endTime":705.42,"body":"effect. So I remember when I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":696.84,"endTime":705.42,"body":"holding top four master students"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":705.42,"endTime":711.09,"body":"at Tsinghua University in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":705.42,"endTime":711.09,"body":"Beijing, very early if 22,000 or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":711.09,"endTime":716.46,"body":"something like that. I criticise"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":711.09,"endTime":716.46,"body":"the Barcelona Chair of Mies van"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":716.46,"endTime":720.33,"body":"der Rohe. So I explained why"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":716.46,"endTime":720.33,"body":"this chair is very important"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.33,"endTime":725.52,"body":"design piece that does not fit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":720.33,"endTime":725.52,"body":"any does not does, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.52,"endTime":729.21,"body":"match any criteria of good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":725.52,"endTime":729.21,"body":"design, because it's too heavy"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.21,"endTime":734.28,"body":"and too large and things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":729.21,"endTime":734.28,"body":"that. So and so that made all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":734.28,"endTime":738.33,"body":"the students at 300 Diversity"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":734.28,"endTime":738.33,"body":"curious. And so the bachelor"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.33,"endTime":743.52,"body":"students, they insisted to take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":738.33,"endTime":743.52,"body":"part in this in this lecture,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.73,"endTime":749.73,"body":"and of course, quite a quite a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":743.73,"endTime":749.73,"body":"message. But it was fun."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":750.99,"endTime":752.88,"body":"So you"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":750.99,"endTime":752.88,"body":"mentioned something very what is"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":752.88,"endTime":754.86,"body":"the standard job German where"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":752.88,"endTime":754.86,"body":"you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.09,"endTime":763.35,"body":"the history. So we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":756.09,"endTime":763.35,"body":"to over valuated schools in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":763.35,"endTime":769.59,"body":"Germany, which is the Bauhaus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":763.35,"endTime":769.59,"body":"and own School of Design. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":769.59,"endTime":773.46,"body":"that is, the reason for it is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":769.59,"endTime":773.46,"body":"the Second World War and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":773.49,"endTime":777.6,"body":"reform the higher education"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":773.49,"endTime":777.6,"body":"reform in Germany. So let's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":777.6,"endTime":781.59,"body":"start with the powerhouse."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":777.6,"endTime":781.59,"body":"powerhouse in the beginning was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":782.76,"endTime":788.88,"body":"art school with a strong"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":782.76,"endTime":788.88,"body":"emphasis on crafts. There was no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.88,"endTime":793.74,"body":"industrial idea and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":788.88,"endTime":793.74,"body":"beginning in Lima. And so but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":793.77,"endTime":797.22,"body":"this school had to survive the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":793.77,"endTime":797.22,"body":"same way the private school had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":797.22,"endTime":802.86,"body":"to say, where I was working in."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":797.22,"endTime":802.86,"body":"So they changed their location"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":802.86,"endTime":807.45,"body":"from biometric to decimal. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":802.86,"endTime":807.45,"body":"that's how it was supported"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.45,"endTime":812.43,"body":"financially supported by Yonkers"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":807.45,"endTime":812.43,"body":"was that was the company"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":813.24,"endTime":817.53,"body":"building the aeroplanes at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":813.24,"endTime":817.53,"body":"time. So they had an interest to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.68,"endTime":825.63,"body":"to force design into the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":817.68,"endTime":825.63,"body":"industrial direction. That's not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":825.63,"endTime":829.65,"body":"a problem in itself. But the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":825.63,"endTime":829.65,"body":"problem actually appeared after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.65,"endTime":834.54,"body":"the Second World War. So in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":829.65,"endTime":834.54,"body":"Germany, all the schools had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.54,"endTime":839.73,"body":"been closed, and you had to find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.54,"endTime":839.73,"body":"new stuff stuff, which is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.24,"endTime":850.56,"body":"how to say this, the idea was to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":843.24,"endTime":850.56,"body":"have new stuff, which was not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.16,"endTime":855.72,"body":"involved into the Nazi regime."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":851.16,"endTime":855.72,"body":"Right. So and the Bauhaus was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.72,"endTime":859.89,"body":"closed during that time, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":855.72,"endTime":859.89,"body":"not exactly close by the Nazis."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.89,"endTime":865.17,"body":"That's another narrative, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":859.89,"endTime":865.17,"body":"I don't like. But anyway, after"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.17,"endTime":870.99,"body":"the Second World War, every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":865.17,"endTime":870.99,"body":"school hired actually Bauhaus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.99,"endTime":876.39,"body":"students. So we had all over"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.99,"endTime":876.39,"body":"Germany, we had a unified idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":876.39,"endTime":881.64,"body":"of how to teach design. And that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":876.39,"endTime":881.64,"body":"was a problem because there have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":881.64,"endTime":886.32,"body":"been many developments which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":881.64,"endTime":886.32,"body":"from you can steal from other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":886.95,"endTime":890.82,"body":"backgrounds, which were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":886.95,"endTime":890.82,"body":"extremely important and actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.85,"endTime":898.05,"body":"led to the Bauhaus concept. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":890.85,"endTime":898.05,"body":"that was actually completely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.22,"endTime":903.39,"body":"erased. There was nothing of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":899.22,"endTime":903.39,"body":"that. And so everyone believed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.39,"endTime":907.14,"body":"in Bauhaus and some of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":903.39,"endTime":907.14,"body":"teachers were good. There were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.23,"endTime":910.68,"body":"students of the Bauhaus who were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":907.23,"endTime":910.68,"body":"not good teachers. And maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":910.68,"endTime":914.97,"body":"they didn't study, more than"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":910.68,"endTime":914.97,"body":"half a year in Bauhaus, so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":914.97,"endTime":922.77,"body":"things like that. So but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":914.97,"endTime":922.77,"body":"finally, in 1971, the higher"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":922.77,"endTime":929.4,"body":"education reform in Germany took"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":922.77,"endTime":929.4,"body":"place in the 1970s, started 69."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":929.91,"endTime":937.38,"body":"And so the oldest design schools"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":929.91,"endTime":937.38,"body":"had to deliver contemporary"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":938.22,"endTime":943.8,"body":"modern programme. And those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":938.22,"endTime":943.8,"body":"schools which were called the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":943.8,"endTime":951.66,"body":"backwoods through the time, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":943.8,"endTime":951.66,"body":"had to survive and by what did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.66,"endTime":955.38,"body":"they do, they copied the home"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":951.66,"endTime":955.38,"body":"programme, because that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":955.38,"endTime":958.89,"body":"actually the most advanced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":955.38,"endTime":958.89,"body":"programme at that time. So they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.89,"endTime":964.98,"body":"were exactly like, so please let"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":958.89,"endTime":964.98,"body":"us survive. And so the school"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.98,"endTime":969.99,"body":"survived. And as the old school"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":964.98,"endTime":969.99,"body":"closed 1968, there were many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":969.99,"endTime":975.6,"body":"students teachers available. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":969.99,"endTime":975.6,"body":"again, Germany was flooded by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":975.6,"endTime":980.64,"body":"our singular concept of a design"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":975.6,"endTime":980.64,"body":"teaching. And that is the big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.64,"endTime":986.28,"body":"problem. So Germany has these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":980.64,"endTime":986.28,"body":"two historical impacts, that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":986.31,"endTime":989.58,"body":"there was no real"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":986.31,"endTime":989.58,"body":"differentiation in design,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":989.7,"endTime":991.29,"body":"what does it"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":989.7,"endTime":991.29,"body":"mean difference between these"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":991.29,"endTime":999.33,"body":"two systems? What is what makes"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":991.29,"endTime":999.33,"body":"them different? So what is what"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":999.33,"endTime":1001.97,"body":"is the arm system different"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":999.33,"endTime":1001.97,"body":"different, or the old system"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1009.11,"body":"started with the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.0,"endTime":1009.11,"body":"to bring more scientific ideas"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.11,"endTime":1014.54,"body":"into design education, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1009.11,"endTime":1014.54,"body":"not a problem in itself. But it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1014.54,"endTime":1020.87,"body":"was a very well, it was an"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1014.54,"endTime":1020.87,"body":"experiment, it took many people."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.04,"endTime":1028.37,"body":"One was a perfect experiment."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1022.04,"endTime":1028.37,"body":"And when other schools copied"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.37,"endTime":1030.95,"body":"the programme, there was no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1028.37,"endTime":1030.95,"body":"experiment anymore. They did the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.95,"endTime":1034.73,"body":"former steps, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.95,"endTime":1034.73,"body":"education, and they didn't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1034.76,"endTime":1040.91,"body":"search or try to find new ways"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1034.76,"endTime":1040.91,"body":"in the system. So that was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.12,"endTime":1044.45,"body":"actually the problem at my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1041.12,"endTime":1044.45,"body":"university, it was very much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.6,"endTime":1049.64,"body":"like that. So and it took"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1044.6,"endTime":1049.64,"body":"decades to get rid of that."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1049.85,"endTime":1055.25,"body":"Okay. Okay."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1049.85,"endTime":1055.25,"body":"So, go on, you're saying,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.2,"endTime":1061.91,"body":"to go back to, to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1057.2,"endTime":1061.91,"body":"Bauhaus, and also film school,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1062.51,"endTime":1066.56,"body":"there always have been other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1062.51,"endTime":1066.56,"body":"schools, and very good schools,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1066.65,"endTime":1069.62,"body":"the van invoca. And abandoned"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1066.65,"endTime":1069.62,"body":"castle was a brilliant school,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1069.74,"endTime":1074.78,"body":"they fed. So we had different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1069.74,"endTime":1074.78,"body":"concepts of different schools."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.44,"endTime":1081.2,"body":"And all these concepts were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1075.44,"endTime":1081.2,"body":"forgotten. And that was a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.2,"endTime":1084.68,"body":"problem in Germany. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.2,"endTime":1084.68,"body":"quite different in the UK,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1085.94,"endTime":1087.11,"body":"you'll find all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1087.14,"endTime":1089.21,"body":"what what do"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1087.14,"endTime":1089.21,"body":"we need to remember from from"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1089.21,"endTime":1092.24,"body":"the from what schools do we need"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1089.21,"endTime":1092.24,"body":"to remember what systems do we"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1092.24,"endTime":1093.5,"body":"need to remember again?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.19,"endTime":1128.76,"body":"So after the Second"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1125.19,"endTime":1128.76,"body":"World War, there was a movement,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.76,"endTime":1133.95,"body":"which was called the vac coons"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1128.76,"endTime":1133.95,"body":"Schuler that means actually a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1134.52,"endTime":1140.46,"body":"art base crafts boom. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1134.52,"endTime":1140.46,"body":"different to it's difficult to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.46,"endTime":1145.1100000000001,"body":"translate that exactly. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1140.46,"endTime":1145.1100000000001,"body":"there were many schools actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.17,"endTime":1152.16,"body":"involved to set up in you kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1145.17,"endTime":1152.16,"body":"of design attitudes, thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.16,"endTime":1156.8700000000001,"body":"responsibility. So the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1152.16,"endTime":1156.8700000000001,"body":"idea of ecological"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.8700000000001,"endTime":1163.53,"body":"responsibility was actually in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1156.8700000000001,"endTime":1163.53,"body":"this context. But after the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.52,"endTime":1173.73,"body":"higher education reform, it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1164.52,"endTime":1173.73,"body":"all cut off. Okay. And the old"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.73,"endTime":1177.78,"body":"school had not enough time, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1173.73,"endTime":1177.78,"body":"concept of the old school for my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1178.2,"endTime":1184.0800000000002,"body":"opinion has not the time to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1178.2,"endTime":1184.0800000000002,"body":"develop because from 1953 until"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.0800000000002,"endTime":1188.91,"body":"1968, it was 50 years of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1184.0800000000002,"endTime":1188.91,"body":"experiment. And then it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.91,"endTime":1193.71,"body":"closed. And it didn't continue"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1188.91,"endTime":1193.71,"body":"that's a pity I think the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.71,"endTime":1200.25,"body":"concept of the potentials are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1193.71,"endTime":1200.25,"body":"fantastic. But there was was no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1200.25,"endTime":1202.05,"body":"form further development."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1205.259,"endTime":1208.1090000000002,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1205.259,"endTime":1208.1090000000002,"body":"wonderful. So to go back to your"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1208.1090000000002,"endTime":1216.6290000000001,"body":"to your path your career so you"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1208.1090000000002,"endTime":1216.6290000000001,"body":"taught after the first school"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1216.6290000000001,"endTime":1218.969,"body":"closed, you went to the to the"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1216.6290000000001,"endTime":1218.969,"body":"to the university?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.96,"endTime":1223.47,"body":"Yes, some years later"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1219.96,"endTime":1223.47,"body":"went to university. That's true."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.5,"endTime":1226.68,"body":"And I was lucky to get a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1223.5,"endTime":1226.68,"body":"position at the Darmstadt"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.68,"endTime":1231.6000000000001,"body":"university because it is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1226.68,"endTime":1231.6000000000001,"body":"only one you Germany combining"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.63,"endTime":1237.78,"body":"the practice of design work with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1231.63,"endTime":1237.78,"body":"the students and design theory."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.3200000000002,"endTime":1242.16,"body":"So normally design theory you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1238.3200000000002,"endTime":1242.16,"body":"are either philosopher or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.16,"endTime":1248.13,"body":"whatever. So you don't have this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1242.16,"endTime":1248.13,"body":"combination in in Germany too"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.13,"endTime":1251.46,"body":"often. So I was very lucky"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1248.13,"endTime":1251.46,"body":"because it matched very well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.46,"endTime":1259.1100000000001,"body":"my, my interests. And so it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1251.46,"endTime":1259.1100000000001,"body":"2000 when I started them. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1259.14,"endTime":1265.77,"body":"yes, ever since I was there, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1259.14,"endTime":1265.77,"body":"was trying to find money to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.95,"endTime":1271.56,"body":"publish the history of German"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1265.95,"endTime":1271.56,"body":"design education. And I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.56,"endTime":1276.5700000000002,"body":"lucky, like when I was at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1271.56,"endTime":1276.5700000000002,"body":"Darmstadt, 2007. For seven"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1276.6000000000001,"endTime":1280.92,"body":"years, it was the 100th"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1276.6000000000001,"endTime":1280.92,"body":"anniversary of design education."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.79,"endTime":1285.54,"body":"in Darmstadt, because in Africa,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1281.79,"endTime":1285.54,"body":"there was the artists residence,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1285.72,"endTime":1290.79,"body":"it was a huge deal. Artists"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1285.72,"endTime":1290.79,"body":"residence, and they started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1290.8200000000002,"endTime":1298.05,"body":"educating designers in 1907. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1290.8200000000002,"endTime":1298.05,"body":"in 100/100, anniversary is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1298.05,"endTime":1302.8500000000001,"body":"always a good moment to gain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1298.05,"endTime":1302.8500000000001,"body":"money. So I went to different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.8500000000001,"endTime":1307.95,"body":"institutions. And finally, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1302.8500000000001,"endTime":1307.95,"body":"found enough money to publish a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.95,"endTime":1311.91,"body":"book, wonderful book, which,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1307.95,"endTime":1311.91,"body":"because it's, the money was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.91,"endTime":1318.42,"body":"enough. And I had a very, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1311.91,"endTime":1318.42,"body":"good assistant employed for this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.42,"endTime":1323.3700000000001,"body":"book. He was now my colleague"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1318.42,"endTime":1323.3700000000001,"body":"and my friend, in theory, and we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.43,"endTime":1327.1200000000001,"body":"had a lot of fun with"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1323.43,"endTime":1327.1200000000001,"body":"investigating very deeply into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.1200000000001,"endTime":1333.03,"body":"German design education. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1327.1200000000001,"endTime":1333.03,"body":"it's, it took two years,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1333.15,"endTime":1338.25,"body":"actually, two years and because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1333.15,"endTime":1338.25,"body":"many pictures, we realised at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1338.25,"endTime":1342.81,"body":"certain point, we realised that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1338.25,"endTime":1342.81,"body":"we can actually we have access"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.81,"endTime":1347.5800000000002,"body":"to the archives in Eastern"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1342.81,"endTime":1347.5800000000002,"body":"Germany, we find the files, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.5800000000002,"endTime":1351.15,"body":"we don't make sense of it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1347.5800000000002,"endTime":1351.15,"body":"Because we were not socialised"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1351.15,"endTime":1356.28,"body":"in, in Eastern Germany. So we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1351.15,"endTime":1356.28,"body":"had to find someone who can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1356.28,"endTime":1359.79,"body":"really read those texts. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1356.28,"endTime":1359.79,"body":"German language, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.18,"endTime":1364.5,"body":"it is completely different."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1360.18,"endTime":1364.5,"body":"There are some, like, say, some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.77,"endTime":1368.46,"body":"formal political layers, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1364.77,"endTime":1368.46,"body":"you can just take off, you don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.46,"endTime":1372.48,"body":"have to read them as I was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1368.46,"endTime":1372.48,"body":"taught. And so we needed support"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.48,"endTime":1378.06,"body":"from the eastern German side,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1372.48,"endTime":1378.06,"body":"which luckily we got. And so the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.06,"endTime":1386.04,"body":"finally, we could finish the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1378.06,"endTime":1386.04,"body":"book. Yes, and ever since. Well,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.0700000000002,"endTime":1391.1100000000001,"body":"yes, actually, for me, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1386.0700000000002,"endTime":1391.1100000000001,"body":"historic part which was before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.1100000000001,"endTime":1397.1100000000001,"body":"Bauhaus, I was a designer so and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1391.1100000000001,"endTime":1397.1100000000001,"body":"for me, design education started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.1100000000001,"endTime":1400.26,"body":"as Bauhaus, I learned a lot from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1397.1100000000001,"endTime":1400.26,"body":"my friend and colleague that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.26,"endTime":1405.03,"body":"this happened earlier. And ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1400.26,"endTime":1405.03,"body":"since I am quite not so much in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1405.03,"endTime":1409.56,"body":"design education anymore, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1405.03,"endTime":1409.56,"body":"more general aesthetic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.13,"endTime":1414.39,"body":"education, that is our main"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1410.13,"endTime":1414.39,"body":"focus now."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1416.91,"endTime":1419.16,"body":"So tell us"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1416.91,"endTime":1419.16,"body":"about this book is available in"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1419.16,"endTime":1419.7,"body":"English."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.51,"endTime":1423.39,"body":"Oh, unfortunately, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1420.51,"endTime":1423.39,"body":"not No, no, no. So, so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.39,"endTime":1427.5,"body":"people would like to see it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1423.39,"endTime":1427.5,"body":"being translated into English,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1428.01,"endTime":1429.03,"body":"but it never happens."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1429.96,"endTime":1432.27,"body":"Yeah. So,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1429.96,"endTime":1432.27,"body":"tell us some things from from"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1432.27,"endTime":1435.54,"body":"your conclusions or from your"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1432.27,"endTime":1435.54,"body":"research from that research?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1436.6200000000001,"endTime":1440.01,"body":"Well, the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1436.6200000000001,"endTime":1440.01,"body":"conclusion is actually there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1440.01,"endTime":1446.25,"body":"a big variety of different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1440.01,"endTime":1446.25,"body":"concepts, it was a constant"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1446.46,"endTime":1452.3400000000001,"body":"progress of searching, finding"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1446.46,"endTime":1452.3400000000001,"body":"new ways there was this economy,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1452.94,"endTime":1456.48,"body":"economy impact, like what does"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1452.94,"endTime":1456.48,"body":"industry want, there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.51,"endTime":1460.3500000000001,"body":"aesthetic impact, there was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1456.51,"endTime":1460.3500000000001,"body":"artistic impact, it was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1461.01,"endTime":1466.77,"body":"continuous struggle actually."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1461.01,"endTime":1466.77,"body":"And it stopped ended this it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1466.77,"endTime":1469.89,"body":"stopped actually, with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1466.77,"endTime":1469.89,"body":"higher education reform, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.89,"endTime":1474.96,"body":"was no struggling anymore. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1469.89,"endTime":1474.96,"body":"the worst situation was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.96,"endTime":1482.04,"body":"the Bologna process that killed"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1474.96,"endTime":1482.04,"body":"definitely everything. So that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.04,"endTime":1484.98,"body":"is my my conclusion. So I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1482.04,"endTime":1484.98,"body":"very much like to go back."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1485.49,"endTime":1488.16,"body":"By struggle,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1485.49,"endTime":1488.16,"body":"you mean like effort of"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1488.16,"endTime":1489.8400000000001,"body":"improving what?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.14,"endTime":1494.31,"body":"Yeah, yeah, effort of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1490.14,"endTime":1494.31,"body":"improving and struggling for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.31,"endTime":1500.0700000000002,"body":"right attitude, finding people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1494.31,"endTime":1500.0700000000002,"body":"who support this attitude. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1501.51,"endTime":1505.0800000000002,"body":"so that's, that was before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1501.51,"endTime":1505.0800000000002,"body":"actually before the Bauhaus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1505.14,"endTime":1510.96,"body":"Foundation, peoples learn that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1505.14,"endTime":1510.96,"body":"copias founded the Bauhaus,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1510.96,"endTime":1516.5700000000002,"body":"which is not true. It was a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1510.96,"endTime":1516.5700000000002,"body":"long process of trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1516.5700000000002,"endTime":1522.0900000000001,"body":"develop concepts from different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1516.5700000000002,"endTime":1522.0900000000001,"body":"interests, like industry like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.1200000000001,"endTime":1528.72,"body":"art. So that was a long process"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1522.1200000000001,"endTime":1528.72,"body":"and calculus was involved in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1528.72,"endTime":1534.78,"body":"this process. Okay. In the last"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1528.72,"endTime":1534.78,"body":"half year, I think, and he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1534.78,"endTime":1539.7,"body":"quite smart to found the Bauhaus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1534.78,"endTime":1539.7,"body":"in the very moment were born"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1540.39,"endTime":1544.56,"body":"Otto baffling who was actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1540.39,"endTime":1544.56,"body":"in charge of this development of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1544.56,"endTime":1549.69,"body":"the teaching programme, he had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1544.56,"endTime":1549.69,"body":"to go to some how to say he was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1549.69,"endTime":1552.5700000000002,"body":"sick. So he was not in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1549.69,"endTime":1552.5700000000002,"body":"hospital but a place for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1552.5700000000002,"endTime":1554.3700000000001,"body":"recreation. I don't know the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1552.5700000000002,"endTime":1554.3700000000001,"body":"word, but"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1555.72,"endTime":1557.97,"body":"centuries,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1555.72,"endTime":1557.97,"body":"yeah, something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.97,"endTime":1561.21,"body":"like that. And in this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1557.97,"endTime":1561.21,"body":"very moment, Coke was founded"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1561.21,"endTime":1561.99,"body":"the powerless,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1562.68,"endTime":1564.75,"body":"but you had"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1562.68,"endTime":1564.75,"body":"Froy bill in Germany, right? You"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1564.75,"endTime":1569.13,"body":"have you had fibre, fibre, fibre"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1564.75,"endTime":1569.13,"body":"fibre with a kindergarten"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1569.13,"endTime":1569.7,"body":"system?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.03,"endTime":1579.21,"body":"I guess, yes. Oh, there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1570.03,"endTime":1579.21,"body":"were many. We had the the Reform"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1579.21,"endTime":1584.52,"body":"Movement reform movement was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1579.21,"endTime":1584.52,"body":"like fibre, and many other"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1584.52,"endTime":1590.3700000000001,"body":"aspects which was a very German,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1584.52,"endTime":1590.3700000000001,"body":"Swiss, Austrian thing, reform"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1590.3700000000001,"endTime":1596.88,"body":"movement. It was like the new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1590.3700000000001,"endTime":1596.88,"body":"concepts of teaching children,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1597.03,"endTime":1601.05,"body":"new attitudes towards children,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1597.03,"endTime":1601.05,"body":"so not understanding children as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.05,"endTime":1606.63,"body":"small grownups are adults, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1601.05,"endTime":1606.63,"body":"realise that they have their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.95,"endTime":1613.8300000000002,"body":"interest by their own. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1607.95,"endTime":1613.8300000000002,"body":"that influence influence design"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.8300000000002,"endTime":1619.44,"body":"equation very much. In fact,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1613.8300000000002,"endTime":1619.44,"body":"there was a project in Germany,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1619.44,"endTime":1624.48,"body":"which was the next step in Hello"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1619.44,"endTime":1624.48,"body":"house for the workshop Hello,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1625.14,"endTime":1631.53,"body":"hello, how. So, the founder was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1625.14,"endTime":1631.53,"body":"a furniture manufacturer. His"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1631.53,"endTime":1636.5700000000002,"body":"name was Schmidt which is a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1631.53,"endTime":1636.5700000000002,"body":"German name. And he had the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1636.5700000000002,"endTime":1645.1200000000001,"body":"to create a new way of living,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1636.5700000000002,"endTime":1645.1200000000001,"body":"working and manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1645.1200000000001,"endTime":1649.26,"body":"attitudes. So he built a new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1645.1200000000001,"endTime":1649.26,"body":"factory. Not too far from"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1649.26,"endTime":1656.3700000000001,"body":"Grayson, in helado. He built in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1649.26,"endTime":1656.3700000000001,"body":"the, in the woods, very much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1656.3700000000001,"endTime":1663.48,"body":"related to a British garden city"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1656.3700000000001,"endTime":1663.48,"body":"concept. He built for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1663.48,"endTime":1667.47,"body":"workers, he built houses to live"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1663.48,"endTime":1667.47,"body":"in the greens. He had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.65,"endTime":1671.88,"body":"brilliant educational programme."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1667.65,"endTime":1671.88,"body":"So that was actually maintained."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1672.54,"endTime":1677.49,"body":"One was it, it was 1907,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1672.54,"endTime":1677.49,"body":"something like that. So it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1677.49,"endTime":1683.13,"body":"before Bauhaus, and he had all"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1677.49,"endTime":1683.13,"body":"the the most advanced educators"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1683.13,"endTime":1688.68,"body":"there. Also as legal, which you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1683.13,"endTime":1688.68,"body":"might know, the summer, summer"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.68,"endTime":1693.1200000000001,"body":"Hill School founder of course,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1688.68,"endTime":1693.1200000000001,"body":"and as Neil came to help her out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.1200000000001,"endTime":1696.3600000000001,"body":"before he went to Summerhill"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1693.1200000000001,"endTime":1696.3600000000001,"body":"because he was attracted by this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.39,"endTime":1703.02,"body":"educational, advanced"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1696.39,"endTime":1703.02,"body":"educational movement. He"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.02,"endTime":1707.79,"body":"realised then that some of those"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1703.02,"endTime":1707.79,"body":"teachers then handed over to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.79,"endTime":1712.44,"body":"conservative so he decided to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1707.79,"endTime":1712.44,"body":"to Great Britain and found the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.44,"endTime":1718.77,"body":"Sunday school but actually there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1712.44,"endTime":1718.77,"body":"was one important aspect of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1718.77,"endTime":1724.8300000000002,"body":"Hello So education was very much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1718.77,"endTime":1724.8300000000002,"body":"connected to the idea of how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.8300000000002,"endTime":1729.42,"body":"design environment design your"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1724.8300000000002,"endTime":1729.42,"body":"life, especially in hip hop"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1729.42,"endTime":1733.89,"body":"dance, so dance education was a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1729.42,"endTime":1733.89,"body":"very very big thing at that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1733.89,"endTime":1739.38,"body":"time. And also the Bauhaus had a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1733.89,"endTime":1739.38,"body":"stage class of dance class which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1739.41,"endTime":1743.43,"body":"is all lost I don't know if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1739.41,"endTime":1743.43,"body":"there are any in Britain Germany"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1743.43,"endTime":1746.13,"body":"I don't find any design schools"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1743.43,"endTime":1746.13,"body":"with dancing"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1746.19,"endTime":1747.45,"body":"we have"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1746.19,"endTime":1747.45,"body":"performed we have we have with"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1747.45,"endTime":1749.67,"body":"our performing arts, yes,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1747.45,"endTime":1749.67,"body":"performing arts we have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1749.7,"endTime":1751.92,"body":"we have performing arts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1749.7,"endTime":1751.92,"body":"but they are not related to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1751.92,"endTime":1753.66,"body":"design. There's only one school"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1754.38,"endTime":1757.41,"body":"even"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1754.38,"endTime":1757.41,"body":"directly collected directly."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1757.68,"endTime":1761.97,"body":"So it's part of a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1757.68,"endTime":1761.97,"body":"design programme. Wow. So this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1762.0,"endTime":1762.42,"body":"doesn't"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1762.45,"endTime":1765.45,"body":"exist, dance"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1762.45,"endTime":1765.45,"body":"as part of the design programme."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1765.48,"endTime":1767.25,"body":"That's fantastic. Yes, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1767.25,"endTime":1770.88,"body":"do that from time to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1767.25,"endTime":1770.88,"body":"time. So I have very special"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.94,"endTime":1779.91,"body":"invited guests design dance"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1770.94,"endTime":1779.91,"body":"teachers which from another long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.91,"endTime":1785.73,"body":"story and also cooking so these"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1779.91,"endTime":1785.73,"body":"are the basic things for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1785.76,"endTime":1787.05,"body":"aesthetic education."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1787.559,"endTime":1789.6290000000001,"body":"So cooking"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":1787.559,"endTime":1789.6290000000001,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.69,"endTime":1793.3200000000002,"body":"dance, the cooking and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1789.69,"endTime":1793.3200000000002,"body":"then an unintentional drawings."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.41,"endTime":1801.6000000000001,"body":"So that three core aspects I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1793.41,"endTime":1801.6000000000001,"body":"deal with. So the unintentional"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1801.6000000000001,"endTime":1808.8600000000001,"body":"drawing is a very good method"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1801.6000000000001,"endTime":1808.8600000000001,"body":"opportunity to find new really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1808.8600000000001,"endTime":1813.8700000000001,"body":"new ideas. Because when you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1808.8600000000001,"endTime":1813.8700000000001,"body":"normally in design, industrial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.8700000000001,"endTime":1817.77,"body":"design in Germany, it's like you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1813.8700000000001,"endTime":1817.77,"body":"start a project, for example,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1817.8,"endTime":1822.39,"body":"design something to sit on or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1817.8,"endTime":1822.39,"body":"whatever. 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So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1841.68,"endTime":1847.1100000000001,"body":"we'll never be able to really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1841.68,"endTime":1847.1100000000001,"body":"have innovative ideas. So my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.1100000000001,"endTime":1851.13,"body":"ideas before researching, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1847.1100000000001,"endTime":1851.13,"body":"actually to start drawing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.16,"endTime":1856.14,"body":"without any intention. It's just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1851.16,"endTime":1856.14,"body":"like, cricket, cricket. So it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1856.17,"endTime":1862.41,"body":"like nothing. But if you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1856.17,"endTime":1862.41,"body":"100 of these drawings, and you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1862.44,"endTime":1867.48,"body":"put them on the floor, then you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1862.44,"endTime":1867.48,"body":"see certain themes, topics, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.93,"endTime":1874.23,"body":"you change your mind to more how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1867.93,"endTime":1874.23,"body":"to say it, it is not a logic of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1874.23,"endTime":1877.3200000000002,"body":"thinking, it is not a type of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1874.23,"endTime":1877.3200000000002,"body":"thinking, I'm listening the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1877.98,"endTime":1882.9,"body":"English word for it. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1877.98,"endTime":1882.9,"body":"Association thinking like that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1882.93,"endTime":1888.72,"body":"okay. And so your brain starts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1882.93,"endTime":1888.72,"body":"to find new things and in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1889.05,"endTime":1893.31,"body":"abstract drawings, but you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1889.05,"endTime":1893.31,"body":"not make sense to. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1893.3700000000001,"endTime":1900.72,"body":"starting from this, you can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1893.3700000000001,"endTime":1900.72,"body":"develop really surprising and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.72,"endTime":1907.8,"body":"innovative developments. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1900.72,"endTime":1907.8,"body":"this actually is also very much"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.7,"endTime":1914.97,"body":"influenced and supported by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1908.7,"endTime":1914.97,"body":"Chinese Taoist philosophy. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1914.97,"endTime":1919.0800000000002,"body":"then in Taoism, there is this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1914.97,"endTime":1919.0800000000002,"body":"term of movie, which means"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.17,"endTime":1923.3700000000001,"body":"acting by not acting. And this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1919.17,"endTime":1923.3700000000001,"body":"is very much because in the very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1923.3700000000001,"endTime":1927.06,"body":"moment you have a intention,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1923.3700000000001,"endTime":1927.06,"body":"then you already know where to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1927.06,"endTime":1932.64,"body":"go to. So you don't discover"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1927.06,"endTime":1932.64,"body":"anything. So you're and to get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.64,"endTime":1937.68,"body":"rid of your intention is a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1932.64,"endTime":1937.68,"body":"important first step. And once"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1937.68,"endTime":1944.46,"body":"you have with this creative"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1937.68,"endTime":1944.46,"body":"associative development, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.46,"endTime":1949.47,"body":"have gained an idea which can be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1944.46,"endTime":1949.47,"body":"very abstract, then it does make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1949.47,"endTime":1954.3,"body":"sense to to research because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1949.47,"endTime":1954.3,"body":"then you know where to research"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.56,"endTime":1959.43,"body":"is one example maybe, because"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1955.56,"endTime":1959.43,"body":"it's a bit abstract. So I did"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.43,"endTime":1967.74,"body":"this. I did a project with my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1959.43,"endTime":1967.74,"body":"students in with a company Bosch"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.74,"endTime":1971.19,"body":"Bosch is a cost supplier"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1967.74,"endTime":1971.19,"body":"company. And it was the time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1971.19,"endTime":1976.74,"body":"when the instrument clusters"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1971.19,"endTime":1976.74,"body":"that were changing from hands to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1976.77,"endTime":1982.3500000000001,"body":"LCD screens. So Bosch asked us"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1976.77,"endTime":1982.3500000000001,"body":"to, can you do some design"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.3500000000001,"endTime":1986.04,"body":"because we have to present to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1982.3500000000001,"endTime":1986.04,"body":"our clients something which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.04,"endTime":1990.42,"body":"happening on the screen? And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1986.04,"endTime":1990.42,"body":"I said, Yes, it's an interesting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.23,"endTime":1996.3,"body":"challenge. And I have many team"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1991.23,"endTime":1996.3,"body":"of 12 students, something like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.3,"endTime":2003.65,"body":"that, and one student to see was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1996.3,"endTime":2003.65,"body":"extreme in her attitude, and in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.65,"endTime":2011.54,"body":"her how to say English, this is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2003.65,"endTime":2011.54,"body":"really where it's perfect. It's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.54,"endTime":2016.5800000000002,"body":"perfect. Now it's not because of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2011.54,"endTime":2016.5800000000002,"body":"my German. I didn't travel for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2016.5800000000002,"endTime":2022.01,"body":"three years, but that makes it a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2016.5800000000002,"endTime":2022.01,"body":"bit difficult. Now she was she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2022.01,"endTime":2025.49,"body":"had a brilliant start, actually."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2022.01,"endTime":2025.49,"body":"So she did this unintentional"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.52,"endTime":2032.9,"body":"drawings. And she's so many"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2025.52,"endTime":2032.9,"body":"things like jelly, fish, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2032.9,"endTime":2036.95,"body":"whatever. And she said, deep"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2032.9,"endTime":2036.95,"body":"sea, deep sea, that is the key"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2036.95,"endTime":2041.48,"body":"word. Actually, she had to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2036.95,"endTime":2041.48,"body":"design instrument class as well."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2042.53,"endTime":2049.58,"body":"But that is an idea, an idea is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2042.53,"endTime":2049.58,"body":"very often not related to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.61,"endTime":2054.86,"body":"task you'd have to fulfil. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2049.61,"endTime":2054.86,"body":"the idea was deep CMC started"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2055.31,"endTime":2058.5499999999997,"body":"researching in terms of deep"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2055.31,"endTime":2058.5499999999997,"body":"sea. So what happens? What kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2058.5499999999997,"endTime":2064.34,"body":"of animals live there? What kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2058.5499999999997,"endTime":2064.34,"body":"of what happens there? And she"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2064.37,"endTime":2068.33,"body":"actually spent weeks and weeks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2064.37,"endTime":2068.33,"body":"and weeks and it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2069.2599999999998,"endTime":2074.2999999999997,"body":"four or five weeks before"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2069.2599999999998,"endTime":2074.2999999999997,"body":"presentation. And actually, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2074.2999999999997,"endTime":2078.29,"body":"lost my confidence at that time"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2074.2999999999997,"endTime":2078.29,"body":"as a teacher, and as I tried to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.29,"endTime":2082.67,"body":"convince it, just to something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2078.29,"endTime":2082.67,"body":"to present, so I didn't want her"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2082.67,"endTime":2086.33,"body":"to fail. And she said, No, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2082.67,"endTime":2086.33,"body":"a deep sea."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.8,"endTime":2094.4900000000002,"body":"And then she designed a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2087.8,"endTime":2094.4900000000002,"body":"brilliant concept for organising"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2094.52,"endTime":2098.39,"body":"information because it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2094.52,"endTime":2098.39,"body":"actually the idea of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.39,"endTime":2101.39,"body":"instrument cluster, and the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2098.39,"endTime":2101.39,"body":"information coming from the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2101.39,"endTime":2106.61,"body":"depth. Because imagine if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2101.39,"endTime":2106.61,"body":"you're, if you're running out of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2106.61,"endTime":2110.03,"body":"gas in the beginning is not so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2106.61,"endTime":2110.03,"body":"much a problem. So but then, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2110.03,"endTime":2113.15,"body":"know, the more the problem is,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2110.03,"endTime":2113.15,"body":"the closer the information"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.15,"endTime":2118.9700000000003,"body":"comes. And at the end, she had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2113.15,"endTime":2118.9700000000003,"body":"three patterns on her how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2118.9700000000003,"endTime":2124.01,"body":"organise information in a three"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2118.9700000000003,"endTime":2124.01,"body":"dimensional screen. It was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2124.01,"endTime":2129.26,"body":"brilliant, and that came out"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2124.01,"endTime":2129.26,"body":"from the idea of deep sea. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2129.26,"endTime":2131.66,"body":"if you start with so Searching"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2129.26,"endTime":2131.66,"body":"on instrument clusters, you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2131.66,"endTime":2136.94,"body":"would never come to a deep sea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2131.66,"endTime":2136.94,"body":"of starting. So that is the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2136.94,"endTime":2142.34,"body":"idea. That is a very good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2136.94,"endTime":2142.34,"body":"example. Sometimes it's not so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2144.02,"endTime":2148.19,"body":"powerful. But what impressed me"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2144.02,"endTime":2148.19,"body":"very much is that she had the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2148.19,"endTime":2153.17,"body":"certainty. She knew exactly if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2148.19,"endTime":2153.17,"body":"there was an inner certainty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.17,"endTime":2157.34,"body":"that she is on the right track."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2153.17,"endTime":2157.34,"body":"And that is, if you have a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2157.34,"endTime":2161.9900000000002,"body":"strong idea, then that happens."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2157.34,"endTime":2161.9900000000002,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2163.79,"endTime":2166.04,"body":"So how can"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2163.79,"endTime":2166.04,"body":"we go back to a pre belong?"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2166.04,"endTime":2169.46,"body":"Yeah, time? So how can we force"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2166.04,"endTime":2169.46,"body":"the curriculum back there?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2171.08,"endTime":2174.05,"body":"So if it's outside"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2171.08,"endTime":2174.05,"body":"Germany, private schools would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.05,"endTime":2179.69,"body":"be a good wouldn't be a good"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2174.05,"endTime":2179.69,"body":"abroad. In Germany. There's, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2179.69,"endTime":2182.9,"body":"doesn't make sense. I talk to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2179.69,"endTime":2182.9,"body":"colleagues every now and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2184.4900000000002,"endTime":2189.62,"body":"four or five of them would very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2184.4900000000002,"endTime":2189.62,"body":"much like to draw in for new"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2189.62,"endTime":2196.73,"body":"kinds of design university. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2189.62,"endTime":2196.73,"body":"no, it would not happen. I don't"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2196.73,"endTime":2203.51,"body":"think so. But Bologna, the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2196.73,"endTime":2203.51,"body":"to unify education is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2204.02,"endTime":2208.61,"body":"misunderstanding in itself. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2204.02,"endTime":2208.61,"body":"education should not be unified."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2209.36,"endTime":2214.1,"body":"Because education is something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2209.36,"endTime":2214.1,"body":"which is very much based on a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.1,"endTime":2218.81,"body":"spirit of an institution, or the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2214.1,"endTime":2218.81,"body":"attitude of the teaching staff."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2219.5,"endTime":2224.48,"body":"And the interest of the of the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2219.5,"endTime":2224.48,"body":"students. And this can't be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.48,"endTime":2231.29,"body":"unified. It's almost impossible."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2224.48,"endTime":2231.29,"body":"I, I visited Andrew and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2231.35,"endTime":2235.1,"body":"implement the red house. Have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2231.35,"endTime":2235.1,"body":"you ever been"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2235.1,"endTime":2236.51,"body":"there? Yes,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2235.1,"endTime":2236.51,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.11,"endTime":2242.75,"body":"So that was a dream for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2237.11,"endTime":2242.75,"body":"me. This happens in Great"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2242.75,"endTime":2247.79,"body":"Britain, when there is the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2242.75,"endTime":2247.79,"body":"person to persuade people to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.79,"endTime":2253.85,"body":"follow this idea. And I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2247.79,"endTime":2253.85,"body":"that Plymouth concept is very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.85,"endTime":2258.44,"body":"close to an ideal as I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2253.85,"endTime":2258.44,"body":"understand it, but also now it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2258.4700000000003,"endTime":2263.36,"body":"it has changed, and told me that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2258.4700000000003,"endTime":2263.36,"body":"this was kind of Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2263.36,"endTime":2268.34,"body":"under a new administration now."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2263.36,"endTime":2268.34,"body":"And it's very formal and not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.76,"endTime":2273.14,"body":"this aesthetic freedom, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2268.76,"endTime":2273.14,"body":"actually was the idea before."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.31,"endTime":2277.82,"body":"But at least it existed for, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2274.31,"endTime":2277.82,"body":"don't know, 10 years or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2277.85,"endTime":2284.78,"body":"whatever. And that. Yeah. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2277.85,"endTime":2284.78,"body":"let's hope that there will be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2284.78,"endTime":2291.02,"body":"other initiatives too. But I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2284.78,"endTime":2291.02,"body":"know that sorry. And I know that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2291.41,"endTime":2295.85,"body":"Andrew was struggling, so it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2291.41,"endTime":2295.85,"body":"all negotiating with the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.85,"endTime":2303.32,"body":"ministry. And so it was kind of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2295.85,"endTime":2303.32,"body":"Yeah. It's good that he did it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2303.41,"endTime":2309.14,"body":"But I think it's annoying."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2303.41,"endTime":2309.14,"body":"Always have to try to convince"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2309.14,"endTime":2309.5,"body":"people."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2311.7200000000003,"endTime":2314.33,"body":"So what"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2311.7200000000003,"endTime":2314.33,"body":"after you finish the book? Did"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2314.33,"endTime":2317.21,"body":"you start to embark on any other"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2314.33,"endTime":2317.21,"body":"ambitious project?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.68,"endTime":2323.06,"body":"Oh, yes. So I actually,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2318.68,"endTime":2323.06,"body":"I was a trained designer, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2323.06,"endTime":2327.59,"body":"didn't know how to write books."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2323.06,"endTime":2327.59,"body":"It was my friend Kai, who was my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2327.62,"endTime":2333.23,"body":"my assistant at that time. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2327.62,"endTime":2333.23,"body":"so but ever since I was very, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.23,"endTime":2337.64,"body":"became interested in publishing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2333.23,"endTime":2337.64,"body":"and trying to get deeper into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2338.12,"endTime":2344.96,"body":"aesthetic education terms. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2338.12,"endTime":2344.96,"body":"so year after year, I have just,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2345.35,"endTime":2348.71,"body":"the latest one is actually on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2345.35,"endTime":2348.71,"body":"digitization and the problem of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2348.71,"endTime":2354.86,"body":"digitization, which is, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2348.71,"endTime":2354.86,"body":"it's very comprehensive,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.86,"endTime":2360.7400000000002,"body":"actually, from different sides"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2354.86,"endTime":2360.7400000000002,"body":"and kind. And we wrote about the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.89,"endTime":2365.27,"body":"aesthetic experience in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2360.89,"endTime":2365.27,"body":"designing. So that is the main"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2365.63,"endTime":2370.9700000000003,"body":"focus in the moment. So I'm not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2365.63,"endTime":2370.9700000000003,"body":"so much interested anymore in,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2371.69,"endTime":2376.88,"body":"in design practice. So I do it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2371.69,"endTime":2376.88,"body":"from time to time when, when I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.9,"endTime":2383.48,"body":"meet some special challenges."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2377.9,"endTime":2383.48,"body":"For example, if a few years ago,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2383.48,"endTime":2391.2200000000003,"body":"I was asked to run a project of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2383.48,"endTime":2391.2200000000003,"body":"it was under the idea that the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2391.2200000000003,"endTime":2396.2000000000003,"body":"UNESCO programme of education"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2391.2200000000003,"endTime":2396.2000000000003,"body":"for sustainable development. 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And they won."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2413.78,"endTime":2420.29,"body":"So they actually they were"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.29,"endTime":2425.54,"body":"successful in getting this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2420.29,"endTime":2425.54,"body":"thing, the project, and then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2425.54,"endTime":2428.75,"body":"they realised that they, they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2425.54,"endTime":2428.75,"body":"can't manage it because they had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2428.75,"endTime":2432.92,"body":"no experience with it. And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2428.75,"endTime":2432.92,"body":"they asked me if I could"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2433.67,"endTime":2437.42,"body":"actually if I could run the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2433.67,"endTime":2437.42,"body":"project in China and the boss of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.42,"endTime":2440.57,"body":"the company of this playground"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2437.42,"endTime":2440.57,"body":"company was one of the students"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.57,"endTime":2445.2200000000003,"body":"of the private school I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2440.57,"endTime":2445.2200000000003,"body":"mentioned before. So his so he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2445.2200000000003,"endTime":2452.48,"body":"was one of the students them."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2445.2200000000003,"endTime":2452.48,"body":"And then we we developed this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.51,"endTime":2457.01,"body":"playground or a nature"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2452.51,"endTime":2457.01,"body":"experience path and on a small"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2457.01,"endTime":2462.2000000000003,"body":"island in the South of Beijing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2457.01,"endTime":2462.2000000000003,"body":"300 kilometres south of Beijing,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2463.31,"endTime":2467.75,"body":"the island was for stood for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2463.31,"endTime":2467.75,"body":"pupil students only. So they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.75,"endTime":2476.3,"body":"had, they were able to explore"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2467.75,"endTime":2476.3,"body":"nature. Directly. And for the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2476.3,"endTime":2482.0,"body":"tourists, there was a elevated"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2476.3,"endTime":2482.0,"body":"path through the nature with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.0,"endTime":2487.91,"body":"certain aesthetic had to say"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2482.0,"endTime":2487.91,"body":"impact situations where the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2487.91,"endTime":2492.11,"body":"colour is changing, or you start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2487.91,"endTime":2492.11,"body":"hearing the nature, but they had"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2492.62,"endTime":2500.09,"body":"to be very quickly to, to run"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2492.62,"endTime":2500.09,"body":"through the island. And I just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2500.12,"endTime":2505.07,"body":"recently, that was with a Swiss"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2500.12,"endTime":2505.07,"body":"landscape architect, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2505.07,"endTime":2512.2400000000002,"body":"recently, I was kind of in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2505.07,"endTime":2512.2400000000002,"body":"nostalgic mood, and I Googled"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2512.6,"endTime":2518.2400000000002,"body":"China's view from top, and I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2512.6,"endTime":2518.2400000000002,"body":"realised that actually Ireland"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2518.2400000000002,"endTime":2522.05,"body":"is looking different now. So it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2518.2400000000002,"endTime":2522.05,"body":"looks exactly the way like we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2522.05,"endTime":2528.59,"body":"designed it. But unfortunately,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2522.05,"endTime":2528.59,"body":"it is opened, will be opened,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2528.59,"endTime":2531.62,"body":"like in the next weeks, but I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2528.59,"endTime":2531.62,"body":"can't move to China, which is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2531.62,"endTime":2537.2000000000003,"body":"pity. So that was something I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2531.62,"endTime":2537.2000000000003,"body":"thought that's a that's a funny"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.2000000000003,"endTime":2542.84,"body":"challenge to run a project like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2537.2000000000003,"endTime":2542.84,"body":"that, China. So whenever it's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2542.87,"endTime":2546.59,"body":"kind of, there's more than just"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2542.87,"endTime":2546.59,"body":"business in it, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2546.59,"endTime":2548.18,"body":"interested in doing it."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2550.91,"endTime":2555.17,"body":"So, how can"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2550.91,"endTime":2555.17,"body":"we help students today with with"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2555.17,"endTime":2559.19,"body":"employability or the transition"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2555.17,"endTime":2559.19,"body":"of forming a student to be"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2559.19,"endTime":2560.39,"body":"successfully employed?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2561.98,"endTime":2569.57,"body":"I think so, number one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2561.98,"endTime":2569.57,"body":"is training them to gain ideas."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2570.65,"endTime":2574.13,"body":"So, as I mentioned before with a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2570.65,"endTime":2574.13,"body":"deep sleep, so, ideas are always"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.13,"endTime":2579.11,"body":"needed every job if you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2574.13,"endTime":2579.11,"body":"ideas, you are on the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2579.11,"endTime":2588.08,"body":"side, the other is to to educate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2579.11,"endTime":2588.08,"body":"a critical attitude towards"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.11,"endTime":2593.42,"body":"economics, which is extremely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2588.11,"endTime":2593.42,"body":"important, because we live that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2593.42,"endTime":2599.84,"body":"sort of problems which we face"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2593.42,"endTime":2599.84,"body":"now. climate crisis and whatever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.77,"endTime":2609.2000000000003,"body":"is a economic problem, it is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2600.77,"endTime":2609.2000000000003,"body":"a design problem. And what I big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.2000000000003,"endTime":2614.21,"body":"problem I see is that we are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2609.2000000000003,"endTime":2614.21,"body":"running into attitude of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2614.21,"endTime":2620.7200000000003,"body":"solution ism, as most of calls"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2614.21,"endTime":2620.7200000000003,"body":"it. So we think that we can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2620.7200000000003,"endTime":2625.01,"body":"solve every problem. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2620.7200000000003,"endTime":2625.01,"body":"designers are very good in that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2625.13,"endTime":2631.61,"body":"actually industrial designers so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2625.13,"endTime":2631.61,"body":"they create some kind of lamps"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.61,"endTime":2634.7000000000003,"body":"which can be recycled and things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2631.61,"endTime":2634.7000000000003,"body":"like that. But that is not the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2634.7000000000003,"endTime":2639.86,"body":"problem. The problem is that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2634.7000000000003,"endTime":2639.86,"body":"people, it's the capitalist"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2641.21,"endTime":2647.78,"body":"profit idea, which is a big"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2641.21,"endTime":2647.78,"body":"problem, and it will cause more"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2647.78,"endTime":2651.23,"body":"and more province and we will"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2647.78,"endTime":2651.23,"body":"not be able to solve the climate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2651.77,"endTime":2657.71,"body":"crisis, we will not be able as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2651.77,"endTime":2657.71,"body":"long as we do not find another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2657.71,"endTime":2663.05,"body":"negative attitude in terms of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2657.71,"endTime":2663.05,"body":"economic business. So I think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.05,"endTime":2668.09,"body":"that is extremely important to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2663.05,"endTime":2668.09,"body":"educate students in the in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2668.09,"endTime":2676.19,"body":"economics, in ideas. And in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2668.09,"endTime":2676.19,"body":"well, it's something which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.19,"endTime":2688.4,"body":"like kind of safe to say certain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2676.19,"endTime":2688.4,"body":"that they have confidence. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2688.4,"endTime":2693.02,"body":"that is I think that that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2688.4,"endTime":2693.02,"body":"central confidence in what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2693.02,"endTime":2698.9900000000002,"body":"you're able to do. And that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2693.02,"endTime":2698.9900000000002,"body":"are not only someone who adds a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2698.9900000000002,"endTime":2703.19,"body":"little bit of beauty to daily"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2698.9900000000002,"endTime":2703.19,"body":"life, but that this beauty is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2703.19,"endTime":2708.8,"body":"essential. Beauty is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2703.19,"endTime":2708.8,"body":"essential. So it took be maybe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2709.52,"endTime":2714.83,"body":"sexy six or seven years to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2709.52,"endTime":2714.83,"body":"establish the word beauty at our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2714.83,"endTime":2718.34,"body":"university, because no one was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2714.83,"endTime":2718.34,"body":"talking about beauty that we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.34,"endTime":2722.69,"body":"talking about function and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2718.34,"endTime":2722.69,"body":"responsibility and things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2722.69,"endTime":2726.86,"body":"that. But no one talks about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2722.69,"endTime":2726.86,"body":"beauty and beauty is our core"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2726.86,"endTime":2730.9700000000003,"body":"competence. And it is extremely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2726.86,"endTime":2730.9700000000003,"body":"important. Not only in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2730.9700000000003,"endTime":2738.56,"body":"decorated way, but in a beauty"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2730.9700000000003,"endTime":2738.56,"body":"as a perfect match of different"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2739.2200000000003,"endTime":2744.98,"body":"layers of problem of a product"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2739.2200000000003,"endTime":2744.98,"body":"of whatever. And so if this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.98,"endTime":2749.93,"body":"harmony occurs, so it's like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2744.98,"endTime":2749.93,"body":"with a cooking, if you reach the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2749.93,"endTime":2755.54,"body":"point that everything is surely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2749.93,"endTime":2755.54,"body":"interacting, each taste is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2755.54,"endTime":2758.6,"body":"interacting with another one and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2755.54,"endTime":2758.6,"body":"the temperature is perfect, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2759.08,"endTime":2762.92,"body":"the one goes good with it, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2759.08,"endTime":2762.92,"body":"so on, then you have this moment"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2762.92,"endTime":2769.2200000000003,"body":"of beauty. And how could we live"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2762.92,"endTime":2769.2200000000003,"body":"without beauty, it's almost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.2200000000003,"endTime":2775.76,"body":"impossible. And this, the idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2769.2200000000003,"endTime":2775.76,"body":"of beauty was, indeed, very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2775.76,"endTime":2780.02,"body":"strong in the European city"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2775.76,"endTime":2780.02,"body":"movement. And in the early"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.02,"endTime":2783.89,"body":"Bauhaus, and it changed the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2780.02,"endTime":2783.89,"body":"design change to functionalism"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.89,"endTime":2790.58,"body":"only due to where the money came"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2783.89,"endTime":2790.58,"body":"from. And so on the aeroplane"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.58,"endTime":2796.19,"body":"manufacturer Yonkers wanted the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2790.58,"endTime":2796.19,"body":"more technical approach. And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2796.19,"endTime":2801.11,"body":"the beauty ever since it's kind"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2796.19,"endTime":2801.11,"body":"of, I don't know, it's better in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2801.11,"endTime":2806.36,"body":"Great Britain. But in Germany,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2801.11,"endTime":2806.36,"body":"beauty is something which you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.36,"endTime":2812.93,"body":"don't talk about in design,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2806.36,"endTime":2812.93,"body":"education. And that another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2812.93,"endTime":2816.8,"body":"difference or that another"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2812.93,"endTime":2816.8,"body":"problem, which came with the own"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.46,"endTime":2824.4500000000003,"body":"school concept is that we lost"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2817.46,"endTime":2824.4500000000003,"body":"our our relation to crafts in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.4500000000003,"endTime":2829.58,"body":"Germany, we don't have really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2824.4500000000003,"endTime":2829.58,"body":"arts and crafts. It's a very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2829.58,"endTime":2834.92,"body":"poor level. You don't find arts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2829.58,"endTime":2834.92,"body":"and crafts in the museum's we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.92,"endTime":2838.7000000000003,"body":"have special museums, like in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2834.92,"endTime":2838.7000000000003,"body":"Frankfurt, we have museums like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2838.7000000000003,"endTime":2843.9500000000003,"body":"that. But situation, like I face"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2838.7000000000003,"endTime":2843.9500000000003,"body":"it from time to time in the UK,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2844.4,"endTime":2849.98,"body":"is that you have art exhibition,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2844.4,"endTime":2849.98,"body":"and there are crafts examples as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2849.98,"endTime":2853.52,"body":"well in the exhibition, which is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2849.98,"endTime":2853.52,"body":"a perfect thing."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2854.929,"endTime":2859.669,"body":"So I think that that would be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2854.929,"endTime":2859.669,"body":"something to bring into design"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2859.669,"endTime":2864.409,"body":"education, definitely crafts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2859.669,"endTime":2864.409,"body":"should be part of design"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.409,"endTime":2870.319,"body":"education. But the development"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2864.409,"endTime":2870.319,"body":"is exactly opposite. It is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2870.349,"endTime":2876.709,"body":"bringing digital technology into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2870.349,"endTime":2876.709,"body":"schools, which is even bigger"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2876.709,"endTime":2881.359,"body":"problem, because I don't know"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2876.709,"endTime":2881.359,"body":"what is lacking in other places"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2881.359,"endTime":2887.149,"body":"in Europe, because I'm not so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2881.359,"endTime":2887.149,"body":"informed now. But our school"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2887.149,"endTime":2893.539,"body":"system in Germany is actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2887.149,"endTime":2893.539,"body":"lacking any aesthetic quality."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2895.009,"endTime":2904.009,"body":"It's only technological."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2895.009,"endTime":2904.009,"body":"Emphasis is engineering. But"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2904.009,"endTime":2910.369,"body":"there's no music, no crafts, no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2904.009,"endTime":2910.369,"body":"art. And what they teach"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2911.329,"endTime":2917.809,"body":"students in school in art is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2911.329,"endTime":2917.809,"body":"ridiculous. So they draw"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2917.809,"endTime":2923.2690000000002,"body":"actually from photos. So and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2917.809,"endTime":2923.2690000000002,"body":"then they come to university."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2924.0190000000002,"endTime":2927.949,"body":"And we realise Okay, so what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2924.0190000000002,"endTime":2927.949,"body":"shall we do if there has"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2927.949,"endTime":2934.279,"body":"nothing, nothing to do? And so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2927.949,"endTime":2934.279,"body":"our idea now is that we, we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2934.309,"endTime":2938.239,"body":"established a private programme,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2934.309,"endTime":2938.239,"body":"but a semi private programme is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2938.239,"endTime":2943.189,"body":"run by the University in our"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2938.239,"endTime":2943.189,"body":"department. But the students"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2943.189,"endTime":2948.169,"body":"have to pay for it. And they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2943.189,"endTime":2948.169,"body":"from school, they get an intense"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2948.169,"endTime":2952.609,"body":"intensive aesthetic art,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2948.169,"endTime":2952.609,"body":"education, like a foundation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2952.759,"endTime":2957.199,"body":"course with a very pre"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2952.759,"endTime":2957.199,"body":"Foundation, because when they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2957.199,"endTime":2961.189,"body":"enter the university, they get"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2957.199,"endTime":2961.189,"body":"an foundation, but that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2961.189,"endTime":2966.289,"body":"necessary, because there's such"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2961.189,"endTime":2966.289,"body":"a gap from school education to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2966.9790000000003,"endTime":2972.2290000000003,"body":"hire designer to Kashi, which"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2966.9790000000003,"endTime":2972.2290000000003,"body":"has to be breached by some"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2972.529,"endTime":2973.609,"body":"institutions."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2975.139,"endTime":2977.689,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2975.139,"endTime":2977.689,"body":"So you've you've kind of"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2977.689,"endTime":2980.599,"body":"answered the next question, but"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2977.689,"endTime":2980.599,"body":"you know, I'll ask it anyway."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2980.599,"endTime":2984.0190000000002,"body":"Even if there was no limitation,"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2980.599,"endTime":2984.0190000000002,"body":"you know, what would you do"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2984.0190000000002,"endTime":2987.589,"body":"differently? What would you"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2984.0190000000002,"endTime":2987.589,"body":"change? If there was you could"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2987.589,"endTime":2990.859,"body":"do anything at all, including"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":2987.589,"endTime":2990.859,"body":"going people along? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2994.94,"endTime":3001.4500000000003,"body":"Yes, actually, I would."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2994.94,"endTime":3001.4500000000003,"body":"That's, that's a tree. I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3001.48,"endTime":3010.36,"body":"get rid of any formal modules of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3001.48,"endTime":3010.36,"body":"teaching, because teaching is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3011.17,"endTime":3019.7200000000003,"body":"it's a it's a process of how to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3011.17,"endTime":3019.7200000000003,"body":"say it is a process of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3020.02,"endTime":3026.41,"body":"continuous change. It is very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3020.02,"endTime":3026.41,"body":"much also Dallas that you have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3026.41,"endTime":3032.26,"body":"the continuous change. So"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3026.41,"endTime":3032.26,"body":"modules sort of fixed like this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3032.29,"endTime":3038.56,"body":"is Design History doesn't make"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3032.29,"endTime":3038.56,"body":"sense at all. And so that would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3038.56,"endTime":3045.16,"body":"be the first step. The next step"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3038.56,"endTime":3045.16,"body":"is actually to find the right"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3045.16,"endTime":3054.16,"body":"people to get involved in it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3045.16,"endTime":3054.16,"body":"Because I, in my some of my"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3054.16,"endTime":3057.88,"body":"friends are brilliant teachers,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3054.16,"endTime":3057.88,"body":"and they would not dare to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3057.88,"endTime":3062.83,"body":"teach, they wouldn't do it."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3057.88,"endTime":3062.83,"body":"Because they hate universities."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3062.86,"endTime":3067.63,"body":"They hate teaching. Anyway, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3062.86,"endTime":3067.63,"body":"they are brilliant teachers, by"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3067.63,"endTime":3073.9900000000002,"body":"her by their attitude, and to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3067.63,"endTime":3073.9900000000002,"body":"have kind of space or situation"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3073.9900000000002,"endTime":3077.92,"body":"that those people can interact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3073.9900000000002,"endTime":3077.92,"body":"with students, which is not"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3077.92,"endTime":3084.94,"body":"called teaching. But something"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3077.92,"endTime":3084.94,"body":"comparable. So by actually, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3084.94,"endTime":3090.52,"body":"would not. I would like to go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3084.94,"endTime":3090.52,"body":"before Bologna, that's right."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3090.52,"endTime":3095.35,"body":"Yes. But I would actually go"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3090.52,"endTime":3095.35,"body":"back to the Black Mountain"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3095.35,"endTime":3098.8,"body":"College. So that's where I would"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3095.35,"endTime":3098.8,"body":"like to"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3099.76,"endTime":3101.71,"body":"restart it."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3099.76,"endTime":3101.71,"body":"They're just after about half"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3101.71,"endTime":3102.7000000000003,"body":"them? Yes. Yes."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3102.73,"endTime":3109.96,"body":"No, as well. It was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3102.73,"endTime":3109.96,"body":"yes. 1935 until the 60s. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3109.96,"endTime":3116.83,"body":"because then, we had read the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3109.96,"endTime":3116.83,"body":"musicians, we had the engineers,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3117.25,"endTime":3122.59,"body":"we had signed scientists. That"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3117.25,"endTime":3122.59,"body":"was a perfect concept of an idea"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3122.59,"endTime":3129.28,"body":"school. Yeah. But I that that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3122.59,"endTime":3129.28,"body":"was the time that the spirit was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3129.31,"endTime":3132.73,"body":"the right spirit. And people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3129.31,"endTime":3132.73,"body":"just went there. And it was"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3132.73,"endTime":3140.8,"body":"enough to be at the cloud Black"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3132.73,"endTime":3140.8,"body":"Mountain. Yes, so that's in a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3140.8,"endTime":3145.66,"body":"historic view. It's the ideal"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3140.8,"endTime":3145.66,"body":"design school, maybe the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3145.87,"endTime":3150.4,"body":"Plymouth School of artists a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3145.87,"endTime":3150.4,"body":"like that, especially the red"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3150.4,"endTime":3154.6,"body":"house, that sort of children's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3150.4,"endTime":3154.6,"body":"education is brilliant."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3157.179,"endTime":3159.309,"body":"So how can"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3157.179,"endTime":3159.309,"body":"our viewers and listeners find"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3159.309,"endTime":3159.639,"body":"you?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3160.87,"endTime":3163.93,"body":"Oh, as I said, I am"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3160.87,"endTime":3163.93,"body":"very critical about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3163.93,"endTime":3169.36,"body":"digitization. So I don't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3163.93,"endTime":3169.36,"body":"any, any website, I don't have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3170.8,"endTime":3174.52,"body":"anything, I'm not in social"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3170.8,"endTime":3174.52,"body":"media, and so on. So it's a bit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3174.52,"endTime":3178.69,"body":"different, a difficult to find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3174.52,"endTime":3178.69,"body":"me. So the best is an email. I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3178.7200000000003,"endTime":3184.12,"body":"very good in emailing. Okay. I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3178.7200000000003,"endTime":3184.12,"body":"would very appreciate to have"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3185.11,"endTime":3190.33,"body":"people in the same spirit and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3185.11,"endTime":3190.33,"body":"attitude that we can maybe set"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3190.33,"endTime":3194.32,"body":"up a network on aesthetic"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3190.33,"endTime":3194.32,"body":"education, that would be"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3194.32,"endTime":3196.6,"body":"great. So"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3194.32,"endTime":3196.6,"body":"would you like me to share the"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3196.6,"endTime":3197.14,"body":"email?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3197.86,"endTime":3200.89,"body":"Yes, you can share the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3197.86,"endTime":3200.89,"body":"email, and I'm very much ever"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3200.89,"endTime":3208.3,"body":"since. So when I met Andrew the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3200.89,"endTime":3208.3,"body":"last time I invited him for"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3209.23,"endTime":3213.43,"body":"anniversary of craft Association"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3209.23,"endTime":3213.43,"body":"in German because of this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3213.46,"endTime":3220.18,"body":"problem. I mentioned that crafts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3213.46,"endTime":3220.18,"body":"are so underrepresented and gave"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3220.18,"endTime":3224.32,"body":"a good contribution to this"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3220.18,"endTime":3224.32,"body":"discussion. And so ever since I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3224.32,"endTime":3228.55,"body":"was I was thinking at least"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3224.32,"endTime":3228.55,"body":"LinkedIn should be something."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3229.2400000000002,"endTime":3231.4900000000002,"body":"Maybe I get more involved in"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3233.86,"endTime":3234.85,"body":"it, that's a"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3233.86,"endTime":3234.85,"body":"very good idea."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3235.21,"endTime":3236.2000000000003,"body":"Okay, so yeah."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3237.79,"endTime":3239.56,"body":"So what"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3237.79,"endTime":3239.56,"body":"advice would you like to leave"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3239.56,"endTime":3240.01,"body":"us with?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3244.84,"endTime":3249.79,"body":"How to say, the English"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3244.84,"endTime":3249.79,"body":"word distance, don't don't lose"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3249.79,"endTime":3258.43,"body":"your your current insurer. So,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3249.79,"endTime":3258.43,"body":"even if everything is like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3258.43,"endTime":3264.91,"body":"bologna is a big stupidity,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3258.43,"endTime":3264.91,"body":"there will be other times there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3264.91,"endTime":3271.0,"body":"will be a time with is to pit"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3264.91,"endTime":3271.0,"body":"attitude will not be the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3271.0,"endTime":3275.08,"body":"dominant one. So there are very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3271.0,"endTime":3275.08,"body":"that they are in fact"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3275.11,"endTime":3278.38,"body":"developments, which I appreciate"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3275.11,"endTime":3278.38,"body":"very much the new European"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3278.38,"endTime":3281.89,"body":"Bauhaus. Have you heard about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3278.38,"endTime":3281.89,"body":"that? Yes, of course. So that is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3281.89,"endTime":3285.16,"body":"one thing that I said, Oh, wow."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3281.89,"endTime":3285.16,"body":"They're talking about beauty."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3285.16,"endTime":3290.05,"body":"They're talking about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3285.16,"endTime":3290.05,"body":"aesthetics. And my university"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3290.05,"endTime":3294.94,"body":"now it's a technical university"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3290.05,"endTime":3294.94,"body":"is involved in a eu t plus"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3294.94,"endTime":3299.92,"body":"programme. It's eight European"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3294.94,"endTime":3299.92,"body":"universities, and these eight"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3299.92,"endTime":3304.75,"body":"universities. And in the long"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3299.92,"endTime":3304.75,"body":"term, they want to merge to one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3304.75,"endTime":3309.04,"body":"university. And so dumbstruck"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3304.75,"endTime":3309.04,"body":"university would only be one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3309.04,"endTime":3313.84,"body":"campus of this big university."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3309.04,"endTime":3313.84,"body":"And within this process of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3313.84,"endTime":3319.33,"body":"merging eight universities,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3313.84,"endTime":3319.33,"body":"there is one field where I'm"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3319.33,"endTime":3323.05,"body":"involved in is called"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3319.33,"endTime":3323.05,"body":"aesthetical. It's bringing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3323.08,"endTime":3328.21,"body":"aesthetic education into"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3323.08,"endTime":3328.21,"body":"engineering education. And we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3328.21,"endTime":3334.9900000000002,"body":"are working on this So every"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3328.21,"endTime":3334.9900000000002,"body":"university has kind of a group"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3335.02,"endTime":3342.7000000000003,"body":"working on it. And it's very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3335.02,"endTime":3342.7000000000003,"body":"formal. It is very weak in the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3342.7000000000003,"endTime":3346.33,"body":"moment, but still it is. It's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3342.7000000000003,"endTime":3346.33,"body":"good beginning. Yes."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3347.53,"endTime":3348.61,"body":"Sounds very"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3347.53,"endTime":3348.61,"body":"positive"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3349.36,"endTime":3350.17,"body":"out of that."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3351.88,"endTime":3354.7000000000003,"body":"Well, thank"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3351.88,"endTime":3354.7000000000003,"body":"you ever so much for an amazing"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3354.7000000000003,"endTime":3362.4700000000003,"body":"conversation. And looking"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3354.7000000000003,"endTime":3362.4700000000003,"body":"forward to connecting with you"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3362.4700000000003,"endTime":3368.29,"body":"again. There's also design"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3362.4700000000003,"endTime":3368.29,"body":"Education Forum. Yeah. That's"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3368.29,"endTime":3373.33,"body":"gonna be happening in November."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3368.29,"endTime":3373.33,"body":"So again, I'd like to invite you"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3373.33,"endTime":3375.31,"body":"to that and we can."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3376.33,"endTime":3380.2000000000003,"body":"So that forum will be"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3376.33,"endTime":3380.2000000000003,"body":"in presence, or will it be forum"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3380.26,"endTime":3383.44,"body":"is right"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3380.26,"endTime":3383.44,"body":"now, but right now, it's virtual"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3383.44,"endTime":3387.07,"body":"again, but we'll have more"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3383.44,"endTime":3387.07,"body":"information by July I think, you"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3387.07,"endTime":3389.86,"body":"know, regardless of anything is"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3387.07,"endTime":3389.86,"body":"going to happen."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3390.67,"endTime":3392.32,"body":"Okay, but I'll take"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3390.67,"endTime":3392.32,"body":"part."},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3393.52,"endTime":3394.3,"body":"Thank you so"},{"speaker":"Lefteris Heretakis","startTime":3393.52,"endTime":3394.3,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3395.65,"endTime":3399.01,"body":"Thank you for you. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3395.65,"endTime":3399.01,"body":"thank you for the great talks"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3399.01,"endTime":3403.87,"body":"you establish, and good success."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":3399.01,"endTime":3403.87,"body":"Thanks."}]}