{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":10.698,"endTime":16.82,"body":"Hello and welcome to Design Education Talks"},{"startTime":10.698,"endTime":16.82,"body":"from the New Art School. Our guest today is"},{"startTime":17.08,"endTime":24.463,"body":"Ingmar Thies. Welcome Ingmar. Hi, Lefteris."},{"startTime":17.08,"endTime":24.463,"body":"Thanks for having me. It's fantastic to have"},{"startTime":24.483,"endTime":31.846,"body":"you here. So tell us about your new work. Yes,"},{"startTime":24.483,"endTime":31.846,"body":"maybe I'll give you a short introduction about"},{"startTime":31.886,"endTime":39.909,"body":"myself first. So I'm German, born in Hamburg."},{"startTime":31.886,"endTime":39.909,"body":"I studied graphic design in Brunswick in Germany."},{"startTime":41.314,"endTime":47.676,"body":"Actually, I went for my final examination to"},{"startTime":41.314,"endTime":47.676,"body":"Yokohama in Japan. I came back, I worked in"},{"startTime":47.736,"endTime":57.719,"body":"London at Henry and Schmid Smith in English."},{"startTime":47.736,"endTime":57.719,"body":"I went again to Japan with a postgraduate scholarship"},{"startTime":57.739,"endTime":65.081,"body":"for two years. I studied Japanese and I worked"},{"startTime":57.739,"endTime":65.081,"body":"there at a design company for one year. The"},{"startTime":65.121,"endTime":69.875,"body":"design company is called Kitayama. company."},{"startTime":65.121,"endTime":69.875,"body":"It's not that famous, I guess, worldwide, but"},{"startTime":69.895,"endTime":79.559,"body":"it's famous in Japan. And Mr. Kitayama is actually"},{"startTime":69.895,"endTime":79.559,"body":"the, it's called Identical Twin Brother of"},{"startTime":79.599,"endTime":88.743,"body":"the architect Tadau Ando. Oh, wow. So I learned"},{"startTime":79.599,"endTime":88.743,"body":"there a lot. And now back in Europe, I'm running"},{"startTime":88.803,"endTime":96.463,"body":"my own studio in Vienna for about 25 years now."},{"startTime":88.803,"endTime":96.463,"body":"And I'm teaching. communication designer at"},{"startTime":96.483,"endTime":104.749,"body":"the University of Fine Arts in, sorry, of Applied"},{"startTime":96.483,"endTime":104.749,"body":"Arts in Vienna for more than 12 years now."},{"startTime":104.769,"endTime":113.617,"body":"Okay. That's me. So, and I can tell you, I have"},{"startTime":104.769,"endTime":113.617,"body":"two parts, maybe I should add that I have my"},{"startTime":113.697,"endTime":118.641,"body":"studio work that is a design and I do some"},{"startTime":126.032,"endTime":133.407,"body":"And I have the other part that is my university"},{"startTime":126.032,"endTime":133.407,"body":"work. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So what"},{"startTime":133.467,"endTime":144.322,"body":"made you get into teaching? That's a good question."},{"startTime":133.467,"endTime":144.322,"body":"So actually it was by chance. Or I should start"},{"startTime":144.362,"endTime":152.687,"body":"a little bit earlier. When I was a student,"},{"startTime":144.362,"endTime":152.687,"body":"I really loved to discuss everything about"},{"startTime":152.927,"endTime":162.473,"body":"design. And I had a great student mate Andreas"},{"startTime":152.927,"endTime":162.473,"body":"Trumpler that days. And we were able to discuss"},{"startTime":162.854,"endTime":170.677,"body":"everything all night long, even about the thickness"},{"startTime":162.854,"endTime":170.677,"body":"of a stroke and a logotype. So we did that"},{"startTime":170.937,"endTime":180.422,"body":"for hours. So why I'm telling this is I was"},{"startTime":170.937,"endTime":180.422,"body":"always interested in challenging my idols or"},{"startTime":180.482,"endTime":189.57,"body":"my way of thinking. And that's why I was always"},{"startTime":180.482,"endTime":189.57,"body":"interested in teaching. But in the end, was"},{"startTime":189.63,"endTime":195.875,"body":"by Sharns, a friend of mine asked me to help"},{"startTime":189.63,"endTime":195.875,"body":"out at a technical upper-level secondary school."},{"startTime":196.716,"endTime":203.442,"body":"I did that for one year, but I was struggling"},{"startTime":196.716,"endTime":203.442,"body":"a lot for project those days and I quit. And"},{"startTime":203.622,"endTime":211.168,"body":"a few years later another friend by Sharns again"},{"startTime":203.622,"endTime":211.168,"body":"introduced me to the leading professor of the"},{"startTime":211.208,"endTime":220.027,"body":"class I'm teaching now at. And we just met for"},{"startTime":211.208,"endTime":220.027,"body":"a beer, we had a nice talk. on design, on graphic"},{"startTime":220.067,"endTime":229.992,"body":"design. I run some workshops at that class on"},{"startTime":220.067,"endTime":229.992,"body":"branding and it was successful or at least"},{"startTime":230.012,"endTime":239.418,"body":"the students told they were happy with my work."},{"startTime":230.012,"endTime":239.418,"body":"And yes, after a while I got a half-time employment"},{"startTime":239.438,"endTime":247.358,"body":"there or here at the university and since then"},{"startTime":239.438,"endTime":247.358,"body":"I'm here. Okay, this is exciting. So how has"},{"startTime":247.438,"endTime":254.34,"body":"the teaching landscape changed since you started?"},{"startTime":247.438,"endTime":254.34,"body":"What changes have you noticed? I think the"},{"startTime":254.42,"endTime":263.263,"body":"tools change. So of course, everybody's talking"},{"startTime":254.42,"endTime":263.263,"body":"about AI that didn't exist 12 years ago. Not"},{"startTime":263.323,"endTime":267.505,"body":"in the form we know AI now these days."},{"startTime":271.698,"endTime":278.719,"body":"I'm not sure if so many things have changed"},{"startTime":271.698,"endTime":278.719,"body":"because the students or at least our students"},{"startTime":278.819,"endTime":285.661,"body":"are still highly motivated. They are curious."},{"startTime":278.819,"endTime":285.661,"body":"They ask a lot of questions. They also question"},{"startTime":286.542,"endTime":295.684,"body":"our style of teaching. We always have great"},{"startTime":286.542,"endTime":295.684,"body":"discussions. So I change. I'm getting older."},{"startTime":296.324,"endTime":298.805,"body":"The students remain the same age."},{"startTime":303.51,"endTime":314.413,"body":"For me, not that many things have changed. The"},{"startTime":303.51,"endTime":314.413,"body":"political situation has changed. They change"},{"startTime":314.433,"endTime":323.736,"body":"a lot. But that's also interesting because all"},{"startTime":314.433,"endTime":323.736,"body":"students of our class are highly into politics."},{"startTime":323.936,"endTime":329.817,"body":"So they are very interested in politics and"},{"startTime":323.936,"endTime":329.817,"body":"we have discussions on that as well, more or"},{"startTime":329.837,"endTime":341.164,"body":"less every day. Um, so to give you a short answer,"},{"startTime":329.837,"endTime":341.164,"body":"I don't think that our approaches and our beliefs"},{"startTime":341.264,"endTime":348.907,"body":"have changed, but definitely the tools that"},{"startTime":341.264,"endTime":348.907,"body":"is AI that are programs, whatever. What about"},{"startTime":348.947,"endTime":357.749,"body":"the way, uh, the students are getting employment?"},{"startTime":348.947,"endTime":357.749,"body":"You mean if that has changed? Yes."},{"startTime":364.097,"endTime":372.604,"body":"Yes, of course, they use different tools. So"},{"startTime":364.097,"endTime":372.604,"body":"they contact studios or advertising agencies"},{"startTime":372.885,"endTime":382.433,"body":"by using Instagram messages, whatever. So that"},{"startTime":372.885,"endTime":382.433,"body":"way has changed. But yes. Has that process"},{"startTime":382.573,"endTime":389.178,"body":"remained the same? I mean, it seems that, I"},{"startTime":382.573,"endTime":389.178,"body":"mean, is there the... You might not have, for"},{"startTime":389.218,"endTime":397.184,"body":"example, a greater supply or you have in your"},{"startTime":389.218,"endTime":397.184,"body":"country, you might have the same supply of"},{"startTime":397.224,"endTime":406.27,"body":"graduates. No, that hasn't changed because so"},{"startTime":397.224,"endTime":406.27,"body":"what has changed is that studios come to university"},{"startTime":406.45,"endTime":413.295,"body":"and they are asking for students for getting"},{"startTime":406.45,"endTime":413.295,"body":"in touch with them. So that is a big change,"},{"startTime":413.455,"endTime":421.682,"body":"I think, because they are looking for great"},{"startTime":413.455,"endTime":421.682,"body":"people. And they come proactively to our class"},{"startTime":421.742,"endTime":427.928,"body":"and ask, oh, how can we meet your students?"},{"startTime":421.742,"endTime":427.928,"body":"And sometimes we say, don't meet them because"},{"startTime":427.948,"endTime":434.573,"body":"then they will quit studying. You're in a very"},{"startTime":427.948,"endTime":434.573,"body":"fortunate position. This was happening in some"},{"startTime":434.613,"endTime":441.199,"body":"countries for more than 30 years ago. Is this"},{"startTime":434.613,"endTime":441.199,"body":"happening in... Yes, I know. But it's like"},{"startTime":441.219,"endTime":449.915,"body":"that now. Oh, wow. Amazing. Amazing. So you've"},{"startTime":441.219,"endTime":449.915,"body":"written a book. Yes, I wrote a book and actually"},{"startTime":450.016,"endTime":459.039,"body":"I put it here in the back. Oh wow. That everybody"},{"startTime":450.016,"endTime":459.039,"body":"can see it. It's called teaching graphic design."},{"startTime":460.039,"endTime":468.551,"body":"And okay, I can tell something about the book,"},{"startTime":460.039,"endTime":468.551,"body":"of course. The intention to write the book"},{"startTime":468.591,"endTime":475.177,"body":"was because I was questioning my style of teaching,"},{"startTime":468.591,"endTime":475.177,"body":"my way of teaching. And I wanted to improve"},{"startTime":475.237,"endTime":482.724,"body":"my teaching, of course. And for that, I talked"},{"startTime":475.237,"endTime":482.724,"body":"with a lot of coworkers, with friends, with"},{"startTime":482.844,"endTime":490.871,"body":"other designers. And then at a certain point,"},{"startTime":482.844,"endTime":490.871,"body":"I thought, okay, I can talk with myself and"},{"startTime":490.991,"endTime":499.5,"body":"with my close friends. But I should do that"},{"startTime":490.991,"endTime":499.5,"body":"in a bigger scale. And I decided to ask international"},{"startTime":499.58,"endTime":508.183,"body":"educators in Japan, in China, in Austria, Great"},{"startTime":499.58,"endTime":508.183,"body":"Britain as well, in the US and in Germany."},{"startTime":509.004,"endTime":518.308,"body":"So, and I asked big names like Eric Spiekermann,"},{"startTime":509.004,"endTime":518.308,"body":"some may know him. I asked also, I interviewed"},{"startTime":518.428,"endTime":526.835,"body":"Stefan Sagmeister. I also talked with Raffna"},{"startTime":518.428,"endTime":526.835,"body":"Ramanathan. from the UAL, now head of Central"},{"startTime":526.875,"endTime":535.817,"body":"Saint Martins. And I had great talks with them,"},{"startTime":526.875,"endTime":535.817,"body":"great interviews, and I learned a lot. So before"},{"startTime":535.997,"endTime":542.779,"body":"I then started to write my book, I had learned"},{"startTime":535.997,"endTime":542.779,"body":"thousand new things about teaching. That was"},{"startTime":542.819,"endTime":552.97,"body":"wonderful. And the book in itself, it's about"},{"startTime":542.819,"endTime":552.97,"body":"how to improve your own teaching style. It's"},{"startTime":553.05,"endTime":564.053,"body":"not a how to task book. I'm not telling how"},{"startTime":553.05,"endTime":564.053,"body":"to teach. I'm asking questions and I give you"},{"startTime":565.073,"endTime":572.955,"body":"text to reflect about your own teaching style."},{"startTime":565.073,"endTime":572.955,"body":"So that's the aim of the book. Yes, of course."},{"startTime":574.395,"endTime":584.062,"body":"And I didn't ask so all people I mentioned,"},{"startTime":574.395,"endTime":584.062,"body":"all of them are graphic designers. But among"},{"startTime":584.102,"endTime":592.227,"body":"those 24 people, I also interviewed a game designer,"},{"startTime":584.102,"endTime":592.227,"body":"I interviewed an industrial designer, I interviewed"},{"startTime":592.247,"endTime":603.674,"body":"a cognitive psychologist. So I tried to talk"},{"startTime":592.247,"endTime":603.674,"body":"about teaching with people outside the graphic"},{"startTime":603.714,"endTime":608.417,"body":"design or communication design world. And that"},{"startTime":603.714,"endTime":608.417,"body":"was fantastic as well, because of course they..."},{"startTime":609.058,"endTime":617.06,"body":"They have different approaches, different problems"},{"startTime":609.058,"endTime":617.06,"body":"and different insights to offer. And I was"},{"startTime":617.16,"endTime":627.182,"body":"very happy at the end of my interviews. So my"},{"startTime":617.16,"endTime":627.182,"body":"goal was reached, I learned, and then I had"},{"startTime":627.202,"endTime":636.925,"body":"to write a book. And that's a tough, that's"},{"startTime":627.202,"endTime":636.925,"body":"a very tough way to edit interviews, to structure"},{"startTime":636.965,"endTime":644.613,"body":"your own thoughts. always having in mind that"},{"startTime":636.965,"endTime":644.613,"body":"I like to inspire other people. That was tough"},{"startTime":644.653,"endTime":651.261,"body":"work and took about three years altogether."},{"startTime":644.653,"endTime":651.261,"body":"Wow, wow. So what challenges did you have writing"},{"startTime":651.301,"endTime":651.661,"body":"that book?"},{"startTime":656.727,"endTime":663.69,"body":"I was highly motivated from the first moment"},{"startTime":656.727,"endTime":663.69,"body":"on. And the biggest challenge, so writing a"},{"startTime":663.73,"endTime":671.393,"body":"book for me, it's like a design process, you"},{"startTime":663.73,"endTime":671.393,"body":"know, so you have, you think you have great"},{"startTime":671.533,"endTime":679.217,"body":"ideas, you have great expressions or analogies,"},{"startTime":671.533,"endTime":679.217,"body":"whatever. But then you hesitate and you really"},{"startTime":679.397,"endTime":685.044,"body":"think, no, that's not good enough. and you go"},{"startTime":679.397,"endTime":685.044,"body":"back, you go back and forth, back and forth."},{"startTime":685.104,"endTime":694.232,"body":"You talk with other people, you get inspirations"},{"startTime":685.104,"endTime":694.232,"body":"from them. But you are, at least in my case,"},{"startTime":695.413,"endTime":702.319,"body":"I wasn't happy all the time with my outcome."},{"startTime":695.413,"endTime":702.319,"body":"And then you rethink and you question yourself,"},{"startTime":702.359,"endTime":709.024,"body":"your approach again. But then there comes a"},{"startTime":702.359,"endTime":709.024,"body":"certain point where you think, yes, that's"},{"startTime":709.064,"endTime":716.273,"body":"it. And then you go. And then you write and"},{"startTime":709.064,"endTime":716.273,"body":"then it's like a flow. And I compare that with"},{"startTime":716.333,"endTime":726.398,"body":"the design process because it felt very similar."},{"startTime":716.333,"endTime":726.398,"body":"But over the span of three years. So it was"},{"startTime":726.438,"endTime":734.983,"body":"a long, long design project. Wonderful. So in"},{"startTime":726.438,"endTime":734.983,"body":"your book, you mentioned that listening is"},{"startTime":735.023,"endTime":741.103,"body":"rarely used consciously in lessons. So what"},{"startTime":735.023,"endTime":741.103,"body":"do you mean by that? Mmm."},{"startTime":744.698,"endTime":752.6,"body":"I so it's not me it's not only me who says that"},{"startTime":744.698,"endTime":752.6,"body":"so I talk with a lot of students and with co-workers"},{"startTime":752.62,"endTime":762.204,"body":"with other teachers in other fields and most"},{"startTime":752.62,"endTime":762.204,"body":"of them agreed that they listen less or at"},{"startTime":762.284,"endTime":770.198,"body":"least they don't do that consciously as you"},{"startTime":762.284,"endTime":770.198,"body":"mentioned. And I think listening is very important."},{"startTime":770.238,"endTime":777.281,"body":"So I have a quote of Michael P. Nichols. He"},{"startTime":770.238,"endTime":777.281,"body":"is a psychologist. And he said, the essence"},{"startTime":777.422,"endTime":788.606,"body":"of good listening is empathy. And I think empathy"},{"startTime":777.422,"endTime":788.606,"body":"is one of the biggest part in teaching. Also"},{"startTime":788.846,"endTime":798.638,"body":"in designing. So and I think. It should be."},{"startTime":788.846,"endTime":798.638,"body":"used more consciously."},{"startTime":801.8,"endTime":811.926,"body":"And I have to do one step back because in my"},{"startTime":801.8,"endTime":811.926,"body":"book, sorry, in my book I differentiate the"},{"startTime":812.026,"endTime":819.83,"body":"actions we teachers do in class. And we ask"},{"startTime":812.026,"endTime":819.83,"body":"in class, we speak in class, of course we listen"},{"startTime":819.89,"endTime":828.387,"body":"in class, we rethink and we letting do. So we"},{"startTime":819.89,"endTime":828.387,"body":"don't do, we let do the students. and those"},{"startTime":828.787,"endTime":837.175,"body":"actions, there's not the most important action"},{"startTime":828.787,"endTime":837.175,"body":"and of course listening is not the most important"},{"startTime":837.235,"endTime":839.738,"body":"action in this little structure."},{"startTime":846.462,"endTime":853.825,"body":"I believe that listening to unfairs the responsibility"},{"startTime":846.462,"endTime":853.825,"body":"to the listener. Sorry, to the speaking person."},{"startTime":854.105,"endTime":864.669,"body":"Um, yeah, I really believe that it's very important"},{"startTime":854.105,"endTime":864.669,"body":"to give the responsibility of their thinking"},{"startTime":864.789,"endTime":871.272,"body":"of their working to the students. And that happens"},{"startTime":864.789,"endTime":871.272,"body":"if you listen, I can take like now I'm talking,"},{"startTime":871.672,"endTime":883.103,"body":"talking. You're listen, you're listening. Thank"},{"startTime":871.672,"endTime":883.103,"body":"you. But I'd like to... to accompany students"},{"startTime":883.223,"endTime":891.511,"body":"to improve their own thinking, being, and doing"},{"startTime":883.223,"endTime":891.511,"body":"and designing. And that's perfectly possible"},{"startTime":891.551,"endTime":902.1,"body":"with listening. So and maybe I can give you,"},{"startTime":891.551,"endTime":902.1,"body":"I think that there's a nice wordplay, a little"},{"startTime":902.14,"endTime":911.523,"body":"surprise maybe. So if you put the letters of"},{"startTime":902.14,"endTime":911.523,"body":"the word listen, in a different order you can"},{"startTime":911.583,"endTime":923.789,"body":"form a new word. Maybe some of you know already."},{"startTime":911.583,"endTime":923.789,"body":"So you take L-I-S-T-E-N and you reorder the"},{"startTime":923.829,"endTime":933.455,"body":"letters and then surprisingly you put together"},{"startTime":923.829,"endTime":933.455,"body":"silent. So listen has the same letters then"},{"startTime":933.515,"endTime":946.046,"body":"like silent. And that's interesting. because"},{"startTime":933.515,"endTime":946.046,"body":"in our Western world, silence is a bad thing"},{"startTime":946.146,"endTime":954.05,"body":"during conversations, right? So if we ask a"},{"startTime":946.146,"endTime":954.05,"body":"question and the person you ask doesn't answer"},{"startTime":954.09,"endTime":963.996,"body":"within three or four seconds, all of us feel"},{"startTime":954.09,"endTime":963.996,"body":"a bit uncomfortable. And I found out there"},{"startTime":964.016,"endTime":974.04,"body":"are science statistics about that. But I would"},{"startTime":964.016,"endTime":974.04,"body":"suggest to wait longer than four seconds, wait"},{"startTime":974.08,"endTime":981.742,"body":"five seconds, wait even seven seconds or 10"},{"startTime":974.08,"endTime":981.742,"body":"seconds. Let the other person, in my case,"},{"startTime":982.382,"endTime":989.404,"body":"let the students think, give them time to think,"},{"startTime":982.382,"endTime":989.404,"body":"and don't interrupt them and tell them what"},{"startTime":989.444,"endTime":1002.529,"body":"you think about your own question. So that's"},{"startTime":989.444,"endTime":1002.529,"body":"one. finding I had during my book writing."},{"startTime":1002.889,"endTime":1004.409,"body":"And another thing to listening,"},{"startTime":1007.611,"endTime":1016.034,"body":"because some people ask me how to improve your"},{"startTime":1007.611,"endTime":1016.034,"body":"listening skills. And I think that's... I'm"},{"startTime":1016.074,"endTime":1023.782,"body":"following the approach of my book. I won't tell"},{"startTime":1016.074,"endTime":1023.782,"body":"you how to improve your listening skills. But"},{"startTime":1023.822,"endTime":1033.85,"body":"they are two good questions. So you could ask"},{"startTime":1023.822,"endTime":1033.85,"body":"yourself, what advantage do students have when"},{"startTime":1033.89,"endTime":1041.677,"body":"you listen to them? And ask yourself as well,"},{"startTime":1033.89,"endTime":1041.677,"body":"how should I listen in order to be of advantage"},{"startTime":1041.717,"endTime":1049.824,"body":"to them? And if you think about these two questions,"},{"startTime":1041.717,"endTime":1049.824,"body":"you will find your own way how you can improve"},{"startTime":1050.544,"endTime":1058.497,"body":"your listening skills. That's excellent. Also,"},{"startTime":1050.544,"endTime":1058.497,"body":"you mentioned that giving feedback in your"},{"startTime":1088.727,"endTime":1094.431,"body":"book is also part of your reflection. So what"},{"startTime":1088.727,"endTime":1094.431,"body":"do we as educators need to improve? That actually,"},{"startTime":1094.731,"endTime":1100.895,"body":"of course, everything depends on the person,"},{"startTime":1094.731,"endTime":1100.895,"body":"on the teacher. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure there"},{"startTime":1100.915,"endTime":1110.241,"body":"are a lot of great teachers out there. And also"},{"startTime":1100.915,"endTime":1110.241,"body":"for that, I do a step back. In my days, I had"},{"startTime":1110.421,"endTime":1117.318,"body":"teachers, professors who told, yes, that's good."},{"startTime":1110.421,"endTime":1117.318,"body":"Well, that's bad. Okay. Unfortunately, there"},{"startTime":1117.338,"endTime":1124.303,"body":"were even professors who used really bad words"},{"startTime":1117.338,"endTime":1124.303,"body":"to express if you have done something in a"},{"startTime":1124.343,"endTime":1134.3300000000002,"body":"bad way. And that was not motivating. That was"},{"startTime":1124.343,"endTime":1134.3300000000002,"body":"de-motivating. You lose respect. So, and so"},{"startTime":1135.03,"endTime":1144.345,"body":"coming to the point, I think giving feedback"},{"startTime":1135.03,"endTime":1144.345,"body":"is motivating. And again, is letting the student"},{"startTime":1144.405,"endTime":1152.393,"body":"find their own way. And that's a big difference."},{"startTime":1144.405,"endTime":1152.393,"body":"So I can tell what is good and bad, but I should"},{"startTime":1152.893,"endTime":1166.146,"body":"let the students find out their own approach"},{"startTime":1152.893,"endTime":1166.146,"body":"to their designs. And yeah, I train myself"},{"startTime":1166.266,"endTime":1176.154,"body":"or I try to to train with the students, giving"},{"startTime":1166.266,"endTime":1176.154,"body":"respectful and constructive feedback. In class,"},{"startTime":1176.174,"endTime":1182.615,"body":"for example, so in my case, I really hold back"},{"startTime":1176.174,"endTime":1182.615,"body":"my feedback for long. So instead, I ask the"},{"startTime":1182.6950000000002,"endTime":1190.097,"body":"students to give each other feedback. So that's"},{"startTime":1182.6950000000002,"endTime":1190.097,"body":"the best way, I always think. And of course,"},{"startTime":1190.137,"endTime":1202.268,"body":"sometimes you guide them a little and you ask"},{"startTime":1190.137,"endTime":1202.268,"body":"questions to get it on rolling. Um And I also"},{"startTime":1202.4080000000001,"endTime":1213.853,"body":"do discussions with the students like finding"},{"startTime":1202.4080000000001,"endTime":1213.853,"body":"feedback guidelines. Feedback guidelines. Of"},{"startTime":1213.893,"endTime":1222.257,"body":"course, that doesn't have to be very strict"},{"startTime":1213.893,"endTime":1222.257,"body":"and it should be flexible. But it's always"},{"startTime":1222.337,"endTime":1229.8970000000002,"body":"interesting what students think about giving"},{"startTime":1222.337,"endTime":1229.8970000000002,"body":"and receiving feedback. That's also maybe a"},{"startTime":1230.4370000000001,"endTime":1235.3010000000002,"body":"very important point, because it's not only"},{"startTime":1230.4370000000001,"endTime":1235.3010000000002,"body":"about giving feedback, it's also, of course,"},{"startTime":1235.3410000000001,"endTime":1246.5900000000001,"body":"about accepting feedback, right? Yes. So there's"},{"startTime":1235.3410000000001,"endTime":1246.5900000000001,"body":"no need to start a discussion or even an argument"},{"startTime":1247.01,"endTime":1253.175,"body":"after you got some feedback, just accept it."},{"startTime":1247.01,"endTime":1253.175,"body":"Because in every feedback, there's some true"},{"startTime":1254.616,"endTime":1255.737,"body":"point in."},{"startTime":1260.2720000000002,"endTime":1268.654,"body":"Talking about feedback, I also start feedback"},{"startTime":1260.2720000000002,"endTime":1268.654,"body":"sessions with questions. So I ask students,"},{"startTime":1269.074,"endTime":1275.476,"body":"are you already happy with your work? I also"},{"startTime":1269.074,"endTime":1275.476,"body":"ask them, where did you have problems on your"},{"startTime":1275.496,"endTime":1284.5990000000002,"body":"way? I also ask, what would you still like to"},{"startTime":1275.496,"endTime":1284.5990000000002,"body":"improve? That's always good. And same thing,"},{"startTime":1285.3990000000001,"endTime":1291.329,"body":"they are responsible. for the feedback session."},{"startTime":1285.3990000000001,"endTime":1291.329,"body":"And that's important, I think. And sometimes"},{"startTime":1291.809,"endTime":1299.813,"body":"I use a good opener and I just ask them, what"},{"startTime":1291.809,"endTime":1299.813,"body":"would you like to get feedback for? So they"},{"startTime":1299.853,"endTime":1306.756,"body":"should decide which part of their concept, of"},{"startTime":1299.853,"endTime":1306.756,"body":"their idea for a poster, for a logo type, whatever,"},{"startTime":1307.1960000000001,"endTime":1317.72,"body":"they should decide what they like to get feedback"},{"startTime":1307.1960000000001,"endTime":1317.72,"body":"for. So that's the way. I think about giving"},{"startTime":1317.76,"endTime":1327.787,"body":"feedback. That's excellent. So after writing"},{"startTime":1317.76,"endTime":1327.787,"body":"your book and you came back to teaching, did"},{"startTime":1327.827,"endTime":1334.192,"body":"you find that you need to do something differently"},{"startTime":1327.827,"endTime":1334.192,"body":"from before, from before writing the book?"},{"startTime":1335.593,"endTime":1343.098,"body":"Yes, I do everything I do. I do now very consciously."},{"startTime":1335.593,"endTime":1343.098,"body":"Or to be honest, I don't do that every day"},{"startTime":1343.1580000000001,"endTime":1349.857,"body":"and every minute. Of course not. I'm a human"},{"startTime":1343.1580000000001,"endTime":1349.857,"body":"being, I'm spontaneously, and I'm following"},{"startTime":1350.6570000000002,"endTime":1358.8400000000001,"body":"no strict rules. Right. But I'm very aware of"},{"startTime":1350.6570000000002,"endTime":1358.8400000000001,"body":"giving positive, constructive feedback. I was"},{"startTime":1358.92,"endTime":1370.123,"body":"that I was like that before, but now I even"},{"startTime":1358.92,"endTime":1370.123,"body":"try it harder. And I also changed. So that's"},{"startTime":1370.183,"endTime":1377.365,"body":"maybe an interesting point. I also interviewed"},{"startTime":1370.183,"endTime":1377.365,"body":"in my book Michael Hole and Mathilde Scholz."},{"startTime":1378.345,"endTime":1389.108,"body":"They teach at the Bauhaus University in Dessau."},{"startTime":1378.345,"endTime":1389.108,"body":"And they installed, so they have at the end"},{"startTime":1389.188,"endTime":1395.51,"body":"of each class or at the end of each session,"},{"startTime":1389.188,"endTime":1395.51,"body":"they get feedback from the students. They ask"},{"startTime":1395.55,"endTime":1403.153,"body":"them just the last five or 10 minutes. They"},{"startTime":1395.55,"endTime":1403.153,"body":"ask the students always. what was good, where"},{"startTime":1403.193,"endTime":1410.998,"body":"were problems, what was not clear, do you have"},{"startTime":1403.193,"endTime":1410.998,"body":"any ideas for improvements? And they also let"},{"startTime":1411.338,"endTime":1416.742,"body":"the students reflect about themselves. So what"},{"startTime":1411.338,"endTime":1416.742,"body":"did you do well and what can you improve? So"},{"startTime":1416.762,"endTime":1422.846,"body":"that's a little sheet of paper they hand out"},{"startTime":1416.762,"endTime":1422.846,"body":"and they have a lively discussions at every"},{"startTime":1423.287,"endTime":1433.693,"body":"end of each session. And the good thing is that"},{"startTime":1423.287,"endTime":1433.693,"body":"you can improve teaching immediately for the"},{"startTime":1433.733,"endTime":1439.4370000000001,"body":"next session. Yeah. So in my university, at"},{"startTime":1433.733,"endTime":1439.4370000000001,"body":"my university, we have, of course, evaluation"},{"startTime":1439.497,"endTime":1446.161,"body":"sheets or feedback sheets you hand out at the"},{"startTime":1439.497,"endTime":1446.161,"body":"end of the semester, and then you can improve"},{"startTime":1446.261,"endTime":1454.146,"body":"everything for the next term. But I think it's"},{"startTime":1446.261,"endTime":1454.146,"body":"very smart to do that every time you teach"},{"startTime":1454.986,"endTime":1462.492,"body":"at the end and then next session. you already"},{"startTime":1454.986,"endTime":1462.492,"body":"can improve things. Not on your side, but also"},{"startTime":1463.092,"endTime":1470.8590000000002,"body":"together with the students. So I tried that."},{"startTime":1463.092,"endTime":1470.8590000000002,"body":"You have to be strict or you have to follow"},{"startTime":1471.739,"endTime":1478.865,"body":"your own way to do that at every session. But"},{"startTime":1471.739,"endTime":1478.865,"body":"it was successful. It really works well. So"},{"startTime":1479.386,"endTime":1489.036,"body":"I changed that. And I also changed, that is"},{"startTime":1479.386,"endTime":1489.036,"body":"also an outcome of my book, I think. I try,"},{"startTime":1489.296,"endTime":1498.8400000000001,"body":"I don't do that every term, but I try to let"},{"startTime":1489.296,"endTime":1498.8400000000001,"body":"the students decide what topic they like to"},{"startTime":1498.88,"endTime":1508.384,"body":"work on. So they decide what we talk about,"},{"startTime":1498.88,"endTime":1508.384,"body":"they decide how to approach a certain theme"},{"startTime":1508.404,"endTime":1518.213,"body":"or topic. And that's actually I'm trying right"},{"startTime":1508.404,"endTime":1518.213,"body":"now more often. But it's always a mixture."},{"startTime":1518.2530000000002,"endTime":1523.798,"body":"So sometimes you have an assignment and sometimes"},{"startTime":1518.2530000000002,"endTime":1523.798,"body":"you have an open assignment where the students"},{"startTime":1524.178,"endTime":1532.726,"body":"decide. Yeah. But do you also find that there"},{"startTime":1524.178,"endTime":1532.726,"body":"are structures in your school that could actually"},{"startTime":1532.766,"endTime":1545.9930000000002,"body":"be changed as well? Hmm. Yes. Also, I think"},{"startTime":1532.766,"endTime":1545.9930000000002,"body":"it would be great. to get much more feedback"},{"startTime":1546.373,"endTime":1556.518,"body":"on your teaching. That you have peer reviews,"},{"startTime":1546.373,"endTime":1556.518,"body":"that you invite teachers from other classes"},{"startTime":1557.958,"endTime":1567.563,"body":"to do peer reviews, maybe also your co-workers"},{"startTime":1557.958,"endTime":1567.563,"body":"and always ask the students. So I'd like to"},{"startTime":1567.603,"endTime":1573.199,"body":"change that in our at our university. So it"},{"startTime":1567.603,"endTime":1573.199,"body":"would be great to install a platform, whatever"},{"startTime":1573.259,"endTime":1582.885,"body":"it's called, where teachers teach teachers."},{"startTime":1573.259,"endTime":1582.885,"body":"Where teachers give feedback to teachers. And"},{"startTime":1582.905,"endTime":1585.127,"body":"that's very, very"},{"startTime":1588.228,"endTime":1598.21,"body":"That's very, yeah, that would be very important."},{"startTime":1588.228,"endTime":1598.21,"body":"Or actually, I hope that I quote her correctly"},{"startTime":1598.25,"endTime":1605.933,"body":"now, but I interviewed Raffina Ramanathan, as"},{"startTime":1598.25,"endTime":1605.933,"body":"I mentioned before. And she told me she got"},{"startTime":1606.093,"endTime":1618.084,"body":"great feedback from an older teacher in younger"},{"startTime":1606.093,"endTime":1618.084,"body":"days. Don't talk too much, relax. and be yourself."},{"startTime":1619.864,"endTime":1628.1470000000002,"body":"And that was a moment for her like, yes, I should"},{"startTime":1619.864,"endTime":1628.1470000000002,"body":"change that. And from that moment on, she changed"},{"startTime":1628.267,"endTime":1637.089,"body":"her behavior, her personality and class and"},{"startTime":1628.267,"endTime":1637.089,"body":"got more happy and more successful, I think."},{"startTime":1637.169,"endTime":1646.3,"body":"So she was always under tension and she was"},{"startTime":1637.169,"endTime":1646.3,"body":"tired after her classes. But when realizing"},{"startTime":1646.361,"endTime":1655.606,"body":"by another guy telling her, when realizing that"},{"startTime":1646.361,"endTime":1655.606,"body":"everything went more smoothly. Absolutely."},{"startTime":1655.646,"endTime":1662.805,"body":"How can our viewers and listeners find you?"},{"startTime":1655.646,"endTime":1662.805,"body":"You can find me, I think best way is on LinkedIn"},{"startTime":1664.326,"endTime":1677.933,"body":"with my name Ing-Martis. You can also find me"},{"startTime":1664.326,"endTime":1677.933,"body":"on Instagram, but I prefer LinkedIn. And actually,"},{"startTime":1678.5140000000001,"endTime":1692.0610000000001,"body":"I want to start, I will do that on March, I"},{"startTime":1678.5140000000001,"endTime":1692.0610000000001,"body":"think on March 4th. I'd like to start the series."},{"startTime":1692.5620000000001,"endTime":1699.506,"body":"I will call them Tuesday Questions. I will always"},{"startTime":1692.5620000000001,"endTime":1699.506,"body":"post a question. I will give some answers,"},{"startTime":1699.566,"endTime":1708.8110000000001,"body":"but I'd like to join other educators to answer"},{"startTime":1699.566,"endTime":1708.8110000000001,"body":"the questions I'm asking there. So that's also"},{"startTime":1708.871,"endTime":1719.174,"body":"on LinkedIn. And of course, you can find me,"},{"startTime":1708.871,"endTime":1719.174,"body":"tisdesign, t-h- dot com. And also for the book"},{"startTime":1719.214,"endTime":1727.681,"body":"there is a website out there. It's called teac"},{"startTime":1719.214,"endTime":1727.681,"body":"Oh, wonderful. That's fantastic. I'd be very"},{"startTime":1727.701,"endTime":1736.509,"body":"happy to have exchange on LinkedIn, whatever"},{"startTime":1727.701,"endTime":1736.509,"body":"media you'd like to use. Wonderful. And what"},{"startTime":1736.549,"endTime":1742.7440000000001,"body":"advice would you like to leave us with? Anything"},{"startTime":1736.549,"endTime":1742.7440000000001,"body":"we haven't talked about? and advice."},{"startTime":1747.847,"endTime":1755.631,"body":"I think a lot of people give you the advice"},{"startTime":1747.847,"endTime":1755.631,"body":"to stay curious, but for me that is very abstract."},{"startTime":1758.0520000000001,"endTime":1769.279,"body":"And I have two thoughts on that. Also an abstract"},{"startTime":1758.0520000000001,"endTime":1769.279,"body":"advice. I think before you stay curious, you"},{"startTime":1769.319,"endTime":1780.3690000000001,"body":"should stay open-minded. Okay. I think that's"},{"startTime":1769.319,"endTime":1780.3690000000001,"body":"the step before. Um And staying open-minded"},{"startTime":1780.429,"endTime":1787.7530000000002,"body":"means for me, question yourself, question your"},{"startTime":1780.429,"endTime":1787.7530000000002,"body":"point of views regarding design, but also political"},{"startTime":1788.914,"endTime":1796.6580000000001,"body":"situations, whatever. Ask yourself if your beliefs"},{"startTime":1788.914,"endTime":1796.6580000000001,"body":"are correct. Do that from time to time. So"},{"startTime":1796.698,"endTime":1803.142,"body":"that would be an advice. And I also have a practical"},{"startTime":1796.698,"endTime":1803.142,"body":"advice."},{"startTime":1806.204,"endTime":1812.9660000000001,"body":"Try to improve things which surround you. Do"},{"startTime":1806.204,"endTime":1812.9660000000001,"body":"that every day. It's maybe not necessary to"},{"startTime":1813.026,"endTime":1820.8690000000001,"body":"improve them in real, but think about how to"},{"startTime":1813.026,"endTime":1820.8690000000001,"body":"improve things because that's what design is"},{"startTime":1820.93,"endTime":1829.453,"body":"about. I have the problem when I'm running the"},{"startTime":1820.93,"endTime":1829.453,"body":"street. I'm walking on the street. I see bad"},{"startTime":1829.4930000000002,"endTime":1837.228,"body":"logo types everywhere and I see bad posters"},{"startTime":1829.4930000000002,"endTime":1837.228,"body":"everywhere. Yes, yes, yes. That's actually"},{"startTime":1837.288,"endTime":1844.2730000000001,"body":"not good. That's not very healthy. But in my"},{"startTime":1837.288,"endTime":1844.2730000000001,"body":"head, I always try to improve them. And that's"},{"startTime":1844.613,"endTime":1853.339,"body":"fun. That's a fun fact, I think. But maybe not"},{"startTime":1844.613,"endTime":1853.339,"body":"only improving design things. So maybe you"},{"startTime":1853.3790000000001,"endTime":1859.863,"body":"can just improve the usage of water while you"},{"startTime":1853.3790000000001,"endTime":1859.863,"body":"are teeth brushing, whatever. So what I want"},{"startTime":1859.923,"endTime":1872.586,"body":"to tell is Stay. open-minded, stay curious and"},{"startTime":1859.923,"endTime":1872.586,"body":"see things you'd like to improve. And if the"},{"startTime":1873.2060000000001,"endTime":1879.989,"body":"problem gets bigger, then ask people to collaborate"},{"startTime":1873.2060000000001,"endTime":1879.989,"body":"with you and improve things just in your surrounding."},{"startTime":1880.709,"endTime":1889.733,"body":"And don't wait for assignments from your teacher."},{"startTime":1880.709,"endTime":1889.733,"body":"Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Ingmar,"},{"startTime":1889.933,"endTime":1895.115,"body":"for this conversation. It's been fantastic."},{"startTime":1889.933,"endTime":1895.115,"body":"And thank you. Keep in touch. Keep in touch"},{"startTime":1895.135,"endTime":1900.213,"body":"with the podcast. All the best. Yes, thank you"},{"startTime":1895.135,"endTime":1900.213,"body":"very much. Great. Bye."}]}