Jason Daye

This secondary trauma, as you said, as pastors and ministry leaders, we might be working with people who have addictions, and we’re experiencing that kind of vicariously through our work that we’re doing with them. Or we might have a family who’ve lost a child or something, and all those things impact us, but oftentimes, we don’t stop to consider the impact that they might have on us. So Bethany, help us understand some things that we can do for this healing and for this health by recognizing this secondary trauma. What are some ways that we cannot just recognize it but allow ourselves to become healthier as we recognize it?

Bethany Dearborn Hiser
Yeah, I mean, learning from people that I’ve walked with in recovery, I’ve really taken a lens of recovery in my work. That we need to be in recovery. 9:05—9:30 As I say, I’m in recovery as a codependent workaholic and my codependency was to my work. That I was not okay if people weren’t okay, and people I worked with were never okay. So I needed to be able to separate in a healthy way and say, I am me and this is my stuff going on, and to enter in empathetically and yet not be consumed by the stories of the people that I loved, and the stories that I was hearing. 9:30—10:22 So this journey of recovery is first acknowledging that we’re not okay. That’s one of the first steps of AA and all the 12-step programs, is I’m not okay. Then it’s turning to our higher power and saying to God, I need your help. I need to walk this journey with you and it’s inviting other people into that. It’s seeking out support. So I, you know, encourage people to have their own support, their spiritual directors, or their therapists, so that they’re going to a network of support. Then also to unpack those inner beliefs that affect our drive. So that’s been what’s really been helpful for me, is looking at motivations. When I say yes to somebody, am I really doing it because I am feeling drawn to it and it’s the right response or is it because of my need to be needed, which is really humbling to do that work? Yet, I think it’s incredibly important. 10:29—11:00 We want to be loving people. As pastors and ministry workers, we want to love people. Yet, sometimes if we’re moving too fast, if we’re not doing our inner work, then maybe we’re motivated by things that actually can hurt ourselves and hurt other people. So creating space for reflection, creating space for slowing down, rhythms of rest, I mean a lot of other things that you’ve talked about with other people on your podcast, these tools to recenter ourselves and to do our inner work. I can say more about that, but just if you want to.

Jason Daye
Yeah, that’s helpful, Bethany. One of the things that you write about in From Burned Out to Beloved, is this identity, and how you were finding that your identity was based really on helping others and that even your value was tied to how you’re serving others. I would imagine that, even if we don’t want to admit it, a lot of us in ministry wrestle with that same thing. So talk to us a little bit about how you kind of process through that and what is the danger of that misplaced identity.

Bethany Dearborn Hiser
Yeah, such a good question. 11:45—12:00 If we put our identity in what we do, then our worth depends on the people that we’re working with, or how successful we are in our work. It depends on the number of people that are coming into our church or that we’re helping, that we’re serving them. Especially working with people in recovery, if I want to change more than that person wanted for themselves, then it didn’t go well, right? I wasn’t walking with them where they were ready for what they were ready to do and the changes they were ready for. I was charging ahead because I needed that and because I needed to feel good for myself, which is a terrible thing. It’s very humbling to do this inner work, and obviously, because I care about their well-being, too. 12:31—13:25 So it’s never black and white. It’s always this mix of motivations, like, yes, it’s so hard to see somebody suffering, and I need to partner with God in that, and not partner with my own guilt, shame, or sense of inadequacy. So rooting my identity as a beloved one no matter what happens, grounds me in source. Grounds me in affirmation. I mean, I talked in the book about this practice of welcoming prayer, and I actually just led it again to a group yesterday. This welcoming prayer of acknowledging what I’m feeling, allowing myself to feel it, welcoming God with me in it, and then letting go of our need for security, affection, and control. I think as we practice these spiritual practices they’re called, we root ourselves in our source of God’s love, we receive that for ourselves, and we’re not seeking that from the people we’re working with.