Jason Daye 
Welcome to FrontStage BackStage. This week we have a hand-picked highlight that we believe you will find valuable. If you do, we invite you to listen to the full conversation. You can find the link to the complete episode in the description. As always, please like, comment, subscribe, and share, so we can continue to bring you meaningful ministry content, helping you and pastors and ministry leaders just like you flourish in both life and leadership. Are you ready? Let's go. In regard to the fountain of life, because there's a lot of hope in that phrase, right? There's, there's, there's a lot of beauty there. So, so talk to us a bit about how, how we, when we're like you said, wearing so many different hats and trying to juggle so many different things, and we ourselves personally, you know, in ministry, we're going through things ourselves, we're also carrying burdens for our people. What, what does that, you know, that thirst for the fountain of life look like?

John Eldredge 
Man, this is so good. So, you know, gang, that the ancient battle for the human heart is over this issue. Where do we turn for life? Where do we turn for life? And when the prophets are really railing, it is because we, they say, you have forsaken me, the fountain of life, right? And you've gone off into the wilderness, pursuing your own versions. Okay, so let me, let me make an observation. Christians are amphibians. Well, all people are, but Christians especially are meant to be. We are amphibians. We live in two worlds at the same time. We're meant to have a comfortability with that, and this is a fascinating thing. If you take a real amphibian, a frog, and you put it only in a tank of water, it will drown. If you take a frog and you put it only in a terrarium with no water, it will die. Okay, it needs to move between both worlds, just as we do, and that the problem is the human world, the natural world, everything from your Instagram, you know, to your kids' education, just the chaos of normal life crowds out our time spent in our facility with right the rest of God's kingdom, the supernatural world, tapping into something like the river of life. So the river of life flows from God to His people, and in John seven, Jesus says it's going to flow through you as you love me, as you believe in me, springs of living water, right, are going to flow from your inmost being. Okay, it is the very presence of God in us. And so I think we just have to be aware of, I'm an amphibian, most of my life is dominated by this world, this reality, technology, and chaos and demands and meetings and emails, you know, all the crazy stuff. Where am I enjoying the rest of the Kingdom of God? Where am I enjoying His presence enough that I am actually experiencing some of that water of life sort of saturating my inmost being, so that I can thrive, so that I can live, because everything is designed to strangle that out of you, right? The whole mess of this planet is designed to just strangle that, you in the chaos.

Jason Daye 
Yeah, that's good. As we kind of think through that, as you're speaking there, John, I was thinking about as people in ministry, oftentimes the you were spending a lot of time with quote unquote God or godly things, right? But that doesn't always refresh us. You were talking about the enjoying, you know, you're talking about the beauty of it, but oftentimes in ministry it becomes more of a task in a way. It's part of, part of our job description, you know, it's part of just what we do. So, how can pastors, you know, be attentive to experiencing that, that joy that you're talking about, the in the enjoyment, the pleasure? What are some of those supernatural graces that you talk about that can help us get to those, those beautiful places?

John Eldredge 
Okay, so let's clarify a couple things, because I've spent, I spent my career in ministry, right? I know exactly what you're talking about, and I've served on the staff of a local church, so God activity is not the same thing as being replenished by God.

Jason Daye 
Amen.

John Eldredge 
So, you know, good. Good meetings, good purposes, conferences pouring into people's lives, sessions, prayer for people, all that is not the same thing as being replenished by God, enjoying his presence, enjoying his conversation, what he's revealing you, what he's showing you, all that. So, but then we get to the end of our day, and we're like, I'm just so done with spiritual things, right? I just want to play pickleball, I just want to go for a run, I just want somebody to leave me alone. So, footnote: benevolent detachment is going to save your life. Okay, benevolent detachment, where you release everything and everyone to God. Okay, we're invited to do this. First Peter five, okay, verse seven, cast everything on the Lord, because He cares. He cares. So I have to practice benevolent detachment every day, my clients, my staff, you know, all that project meetings, exciting things. I give everything and everyone to you. You empty your soul of all the chaos and the clutter, so that you can then receive something of the presence of God. Now, you asked about the supernatural graces, so the human heart, the heart of the believer, is the new temple. Okay, so you had the tabernacle, you had the temple, and in the Old Testament that was where the presence of God came down and dwelt among his people, which is why you get all these psalms saying, let us go up unto the Lord, let us go experience his presence, because that was the locus for it, that was the location, but in the New Testament, God does something radical, and Paul writes about it. He says, "You now are the temple of God, because this is where the presence of God dwells in the world now, and this is where the presence of God expresses itself in the world now. So I got all these Bible guys tracking with me, going.. I think that's true. We are now the temple of the living God, Ephesians three. Christ dwells in your hearts. Okay, well, if that's where Christ dwells, then that's the new temple, that is the location of the presence of God in the world. Okay, so the glory of the living God would fill the tabernacle, and the glory of the living God would fill the temple. The glory of the living God is meant to fill our humanity. It's the only, it's the only thing that can empower us. It's the only thing that can transform our character. It's the only thing that works, but very few of us say, and this is right out of the Ephesians three prayer, right? Paul says, I pray to the Father, the creator of all things in heaven and on earth, that He would strengthen you out of His glorious riches by His Spirit in your inmost being, so there we go. Okay, but we don't stop and ask for it, and say I need to be saturated with the beauty of creation, because the glory of God fills the earth, as Isaiah says. I need to be saturated with the glory of Cana, because when Christ turned water to wine, it says he thus revealed his glory. I need to be saturated with the resurrection power of the Almighty, because Paul says in Romans six it was by the glory of God that He raised Jesus from the dead. So, your, your humanity, your being doesn't function well without a regular infusion of just the beauty of the presence of God, that the splendor of it, the love, the goodness, the riches of it's not a weird thing, it's not a woo, it is, it is all that you see in nature that you love, right. It is the goodness of God saturating your humanity. I recommend asking for it on a regular basis.

Jason Daye 
That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

Jason Daye
FrontStage BackStage is a ministry of PastorServe. Here at PastorServe, we love walking alongside of pastors and ministry leaders. If you'd like to learn details on how you might qualify for a complimentary coaching session with one of our trusted ministry coaches, please visit PastorServe.org/freesession. Now, FrontStage BackStage is more than just another podcast. In fact, we create an entire toolkit that complements every single conversation. You can find this toolkit at PastorServe.org/network for this episode, and for every episode in the toolkit, you'll find a number of resources, including our ministry leaders' growth guide. In the growth guide, you'll find both questions and insights that are pulled from the conversation that you and the leaders at your local church or ministry can process together to consider how this content relates to your particular ministry context. Again, you can find the toolkit at PastorServe.org/network. Now we hope that you are finding this content valuable, and if so, we'd love for you to share, comment, like, follow, subscribe. That engagement is incredibly important, and also, please take a moment to give us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Your engagement and your reviews help other pastors and ministry leaders help find this valuable content. I'm Jason Daye, and encouraging you to love well, live well, and lead well. Thank you, and God Bless.