The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast

Women's Scented Products & Environmental Justice: Professor Ami Zota

The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast Episode 76

 The newest episode of The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast is available now! 
  
 It's called “Women’s Scented Products and Environmental Justice.”

I’m speaking with Ami Zota, associate professor of Environmental Health Sciences at Columbia University in New York. 

Professor Zota explores how women of color are disproportionately affected by toxic exposures and unregulated chemicals in beauty, intimate, and personal care products.

Thank you for listening! 

Please join The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast’s new Facebook group. 

You can reach me at aaron@chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org

 #MCSAwareness #MCS #MultipleChemicalSensitivity #TILT #ChemicalIntolerance #EnvironmentalIllness #ChronicIllness #InvisibleIllness 
 #MultipleChemicalSensitivityPodcast 

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Aaron Goodman: You are listening to the Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm podcast creator Aaron Goodman. Today's episode starts out a bit different. You're gonna hear a fictitious conversation and it reflects something I run into sometimes while making the podcast—something that's undoubtedly familiar to most of you. In this made-up conversation, I'm speaking with a fictitional researcher. It's not a real person and it doesn't reflect a particular researcher's views. But my take on what some scholars have been saying and writing and how it affects people with MCS.

Aaron Goodman: Hello?

Fictitious MCS researcher: Hello.

Aaron Goodman: Yes, it's Aaron from the Chemical Sensitivity Podcast.

Fictitious MCS researcher: Mm-hmm.

Aaron Goodman: I'm a researcher near Vancouver in British Columbia, and I'm calling because I just want to ask if you'd be open to speaking with me about your research, on the podcast.

Fictitious MCS researcher: I have a lot of empathy for people with that condition. Good luck with your work. I have a faculty meeting. I'll consider it, but I really must go. Send me the details.

Aaron Goodman: I have.

fictitious MCS researcher: It's the end of semester. Send it again.

Aaron Goodman: Well, I've read all your works about MCS since 1974. Your thesis hasn't changed, has it. To you, people with MCS—we're all deeply traumatized since childhood. 

fictitious MCS researcher:  Trauma originated dysphoria. You likely prefer hyperosmia?

Aaron Goodman: No. No, definitely not. People with MCS don't have a heightened sense of smell. We react to things that others aren't affected by. Anyone can develop MCS.

[00:01:39] Fictitious MCS researcher: Here's what I really think. You're familiar with laboratory tests. People with so-called MCS were given samples of chemicals in ideal conditions. The patients were made to stand in foam booths—they made in the lab—and it showed less than four—15% of participants reacted to chemicals, and 45% reacted to a placebo. It's a well-known study.

[00:02:07] Aaron Goodman: And deeply flawed. The study was debunked by researchers more than 15 years ago, and you choose to overlook that and keep citing it. The study has harmed so many of us.

fictitious MCS researcher: We do respectable research. It may not be popular among your crowd.

Aaron Goodman: This has nothing to do with popularity. It's about credibility.

Fictitious MCS researcher: I'm a tenured professor and department chair. This is a very respected institution, and I know what I'm talking about.

Aaron Goodman:  Speaking of talking, how often do you talk with people with MCS?

Fictitious MCS researcher: We run surveys. It's effective.
Do you think I have a landline telephone and call people on the white pages?

Aaron Goodman: You could try. Millions of people have the illness, so the odds are you'll—you'll get lucky.

Fictitious MCS researcher: Surveys are much more effective. We can reach thousands.

Aaron Goodman:  And what do they tell you?

Fictitious MCS researcher: These are very anxious times.

[00:03:07] Aaron Goodman:  But you said anxieties from childhood trauma?

[00:03:13] Fictitious MCS researcher: And it often comes to head years—Even decades later. Like I said, it's tragic—people going through—such traumas on their own.

[00:03:19] Aaron Goodman: What are you suggesting?

[00:03:20] Fictitious MCS researcher:  Counseling. Cognitive behavioral therapy. I want to issue you a challenge. Go back to counseling. Find a really good psychotherapist. I can hear the trauma in your voice. I want you to survey your podcast listeners and ask them how many have suffered serious trauma in childhood.

[00:03:38] Aaron Goodman:  I'm not doing that, because I don't believe you. You've done nothing in your research that leads me to think your argument has any credibility. You ignore a lot of important research about MCS because your papers only look at work focused on anxiety. And panic. So you made up your mind about MCS ages ago, and in spite of a lot of research about the physiological nature—that MCS is caused by harmful and toxic chemicals, not by anxiety and trauma. Symptoms can include anxiety, but MCS is not an anxiety disorder.
Talk with people. Real people. We're here. We exist. We're online and in cities. We're in towns and in the country. We're in every country on Earth, and if you ask, I'm pretty sure a lot of folks might be open to talking.
We need employers and human resource people to know.
We need the World Health Organization to know.
We need decision makers and government to understand MCS.
We need our loved ones to understand that MCS is not a psychological disorder.
We have to dialogue. We're ready.
Don't write us off anymore.
Please listen when we say how we suffer.
Don't cause us any more harm.

[00:04:55] Aaron Goodman: You're listening to The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm Aaron Goodman. I'm a journalist, documentary maker and researcher, but I'm also someone who's lived with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity or MCS for years.
MCS—also called Chemical Intolerance, Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance or TILT, and Idiopathic Environmental Illness—affects millions around the world.
It's a condition that makes everyday life extremely challenging and unpredictable.
Fragrance, air fresheners, fresh paint, scented laundry products on someone's clothing, and a lot more can trigger exhaustion, brain fog, muscle pain, rashes, and a wide range of symptoms.
And yet, for all its impacts, MCS remains largely invisible.
Doctors dismiss it. Employers rarely accommodate it. Even friends and family struggle to understand.

This podcast aims to change that.
We dive into the latest research, share real stories, and explore how people navigate life with an illness many refuse to see.

This episode is called Women’s Scented Products and Environmental Justice.
I’m speaking with Ami Zota, Associate Professor of Environmental Health Sciences at Columbia University’s Mailman School of Public Health in New York.
Professor Zota was the first researcher to examine how women of color are disproportionately impacted by toxic exposures and unregulated chemicals in beauty, intimate, and personal care products.

You’ll hear Professor Zota’s insights based on her community-engaged research with Black, Latinx, and Asian women—including how women of color are pressured through advertising to purchase and use so-called “scent-altering” intimate and personal care products;
why synthetic chemical fragrance in intimate and personal care products poses significant risks to women’s health;
how women who use these products may not necessarily know about Multiple Chemical Sensitivity or Chemical Intolerance, but many report having symptoms associated with the illness;
and efforts to support women in reading and understanding product labels and the risks of using fragranced intimate and personal care products.

Professor Zota, thank you very much for joining me.

[00:07:53] Ami Zota: I thank you for the invitation.

[00:07:56] Aaron Goodman: It is a pleasure. I wonder if we could start—I’d like to ask you—was there perhaps a moment in your career early on when you realized: this is what I want to look at? Toxins marketed and sold to women of color and environmental justice? What sparked your initial interest?

[00:08:17] Ami Zota: Sure. That—that’s a great question.
So I’ve been studying or doing environmental health and public health research related to environmental justice, actually since all the way back to my undergraduate career.
But it started off studying more, I would say, hazards associated with poor housing, as well as chemicals impacting residents at an abandoned mining site.

And then after I finished my doctorate at Harvard School of Public Health, I worked on a postdoc that sought to bridge environmental justice and breast cancer advocacy.
And there I was introduced to the world of endocrine-disrupting compounds that are common in consumer products.
And I was trying to find a way to think about the intersections with environmental justice, and I found my way into the world of personal care products and then thinking about what I call the environmental injustice of beauty.

Really thinking about how social, historical, and political factors inform our notions of beauty, and how those disproportionately impact certain communities—especially communities of color.

[00:09:34] Aaron Goodman: Okay. Yeah, I’m so glad to be speaking with you because one of the—something that I hear and I see in the research a lot is that women of color, racialized women, are disproportionately impacted by exposures to toxic chemicals. And I haven’t yet found someone to really talk about that. Is that an impetus for your work? Is that a major concern, an area of focus for you?

[00:10:10] Ami Zota: Yes, absolutely. Yes.

Thinking about different forms of marginalization and those systems of power and oppression, and how they impact beauty as a form of power and consequently the beauty industry. So thinking about racism, but also colonialism, because this really is a global phenomenon—this idea of the environmental injustice of beauty.

Also sexism, and also how there could be synergies between these different factors. Definitely in the U.S. context, women of color are disproportionately impacted because they're not at the top of the beauty hierarchy, right? Because the global beauty hierarchy idealizes Eurocentric notions of beauty—whether that’s lighter skin or straighter hair.

Also idealized notions of smell.
My work both kind of grapples with physical appearance—like hair and skin and what people do to adapt to these beauty standards—but also around smell and fragrance.

[00:11:19] Aaron Goodman: Very interesting and very troubling.
So many questions come up that I want to ask you. But do you want to talk a little bit about the types of products? You mentioned some of them, but what are some of the products that you’ve been looking at in the course of your research?

[00:11:35] Ami Zota: Sure. So we published a seminal paper in this area called The Environmental Justice of Beauty—me and my co-author, Dr. Bhavna Shamasunder, who’s more of a social scientist. And we had three case studies around what we call potentially toxic products that we see as adaptive responses to these injustices.

And one was hair straighteners—so chemical hair straighteners, like chemical hair relaxers or the Brazilian blowout where people are chemically straightening their hair. And these practices have been associated with infertility and quite a few different types of cancer—like increased risk of breast cancer or ovarian cancer.

Another product is skin lighteners. Often these products have mercury added to them, because mercury—actually one of its properties is it can bleach the skin. Mercury is a known carcinogen, especially for the kidneys. It can also impact fetal brain development during critical windows of exposure.

And this skin lightening phenomenon is a global phenomenon.

And the third is around fragranced menstrual and intimate care product use.
So this is one that is, I think, less obvious to people. And it’s really rooted in scent and smell as being codified as a trait of beauty—and also being a racialized trait.
And a lot of that in the U.S. even goes back to the time of slavery, when differences in smell were used as a justification to help define racial categories.
And smell was also used as a way to hyper-sexualize Black women.

And so I think especially smells associated with the vagina and the vulva have particularly been stigmatized. That stigma—I think—more severe for racialized women and to some extent women of lower social class or lower socioeconomic status.

There are these products that have evolved—there’s a whole industry—and vaginal douching is one kind of classical product, where it’s really used to alter scent, control odor, etc. And so we’ve been studying both who’s using these products and what might be the consequences in terms of health.

[00:14:08] Aaron Goodman: Roughly how many people use these products in the United States?

[00:14:14] Ami Zota: Oh, wow. Okay. Mm-hmm. I would need my papers in front of me, I think.

So with douching, what’s interesting—let me see if I can try to also while we talk pull this up—what… because douching is—so that’s where you’re inserting some type of solution, often a fragrant solution, up into your vaginal tract.
And this is actually a practice that’s been discouraged for some time by the OB-GYN community—so obstetrics and gynecology—just because douching has also been associated, independent of the chemicals, it’s been associated with different higher likelihood of getting sexually transmitted infections or diseases, and even with some cancer risk.

But interestingly, even though it’s been discouraged, the prevalence has stayed roughly the same over time. And that’s—it’s about 15 to 20% among Black women.

But the other products that we’ve looked at include—so like feminine wipes, which is about a fifth of all reproductive-aged women. Sprays—it’s about 10%.
We’ve also looked at scented tampons or scented pads, which is a little bit different than the other products, but that’s about—our work recently has shown maybe 5 to 10% of reproductive-aged women use those products.

It’s substantial.
And I think the other thing to think about is when we talk about menstrual products, these are repeated exposures, right?
From menarche to menopause. So this is, you know, let’s say 40 years, often monthly—maybe even more than monthly for some of these products.
So you’re talking about cumulative, chronic exposures.

And what we’ve also found is that some people tend to use multiple products.
So it’s not just one product, but it’s like a whole cluster of products.

[00:16:30] Aaron Goodman: How much of a force is the marketing in leading people to make these consumer choices, and is the marketing ramping up or changing in any way?

[00:16:41] Ami Zota: I think it’s huge. I think it’s huge.

And I think what we have seen historically is that the marketing tends to exploit the social stigma around smell and that all odors around our sexual and reproductive organs are bad and, right, especially because they bring attention to yourself and can be… so all of that becomes a source of low self-esteem.

The marketing also leverages that and associates these products with essentially better self-esteem and a better life, right?
And there has at least been some analysis of the marketing—especially around douches, back when there was a lot more intentional marketing—and it was very racialized too, right?

So playing on the idea that social stigma doesn’t hit all populations the same.

And one thing that we found in our recent study that we just published maybe a year and a half ago on this is—we were expecting differences in use.
So we call these products “scent-altering products”—those that are used more for odor control. So we looked at these as a cluster. And we expected—our hypothesis was—we would see some differences by race and ethnicity. And we hypothesized that women of color may be higher users.

And we did see some of that—consistent with prior research—but we also found there were huge differences by education.

And so actually, it was those people—women—who had not gone to a four-year college and above, so who didn’t have a college degree, were actually much more likely to use these products—these scent-altering products or these products that have a lot of synthetic fragrance.

And so that was a pretty…
That was like an unexpected finding.
And so we just wonder too—we have some ideas about that—but we also wonder: is it that they’re more sensitive to the stigma and also more responsive to the marketing of this as a pathway out of the stigma?

Does that make sense?

[00:18:58] Aaron Goodman: Yeah, it does. And it’s something that I’ve thought about and that people have shared with me.

I wanted to ask you about your endeavors to assist women in reading labels, and you mentioned that education plays a role, but I’m pretty sure you would agree with me that for anyone, regardless of education, reading labels is really—can be very complex, right?

It’s really complex, especially because of lack of disclosure. But do you want to talk about your endeavors to help women unpack labels, untangle labels?

[00:19:36] Ami Zota: Yeah. So we are… obviously, education and being in community conversations is a big part of this.

So I think awareness is the first step—just to know that just because you buy something in CVS or on Amazon doesn’t mean that it’s gone through this very robust assessment for health and safety concerns.

I know that your audience probably knows that fragrance in particular is a really tough nut to crack because of trade secret laws that allow companies just to say “fragrance,” which could really mean 50 different chemicals.

There have been some attempts around fragrance disclosure laws in states like New York and California, where then basically the company has to disclose all of the fragrance chemicals to a third party or list it on their website.
But you may not know which chemicals are in which products.

We have done, and we are—for example, right now—we’re doing a study where we’re trying to… it’s an intervention study where we’re trying to support Black women in making safer product choices.
And not just telling them what products to replace, but helping them through education for them to choose their own products.

And I think it just becomes so overwhelming, honestly.

We have done research, and we have a paper that’s going to come out soon, which does suggest that actively avoiding certain ingredients can… does result in buying lower chemical products and can help reduce your exposure to an extent.
But I generally feel like that’s such a big onus to bear on the individual.

And it’s unfair, honestly, because it’s hard to truly always make safer choices, and there’s also a lot of unin… you have incomplete information.
But the onus should be on the government and on industry. So that’s why I partner a lot with advocacy groups to help pass laws that will ensure safer and more transparent beauty products.

[00:21:57] Aaron Goodman: You mentioned you work closely with community, and that’s something that I think is really important to highlight in your research—that you’re not just in an ivory tower, as they say.

As I understand, from reading your papers and talking with you, I understand that you work closely with community—and that’s correct?

[00:22:11] Ami Zota: Yes.

[00:22:13] Aaron Goodman: Yeah. And when you’re in communication with people—the people you write about and talk with—I know you’re not a specialist in multiple chemical sensitivity and chemical intolerance, but do you hear from people about symptoms that may be part of that—this illness?

And there are so many symptoms—starting with brain fog and rashes, irritability, tingling in the body, migraines, fatigue. They go on and on.
And a lot of the time, people don’t know—like in my case, I didn’t know for decades that I had MCS.

That’s part of what we’re doing in this podcast—is just talking about it. Let people know: hey, do you know? They might realize they have it.

In terms of health effects, do people ever share with you any of those symptoms and more?

[00:23:04] Ami Zota: Yeah, they do. They definitely do.

And I think some of—especially around the rashes, the irritable skin, and just the sort of increasing changes in their overall health, in big and small ways—and then in their own narrative, they are connecting the dots with the products they use.

And how really—to me—the chemical industry and the fossil fuel industries are permeating so many parts of our lives.

So it’s always so powerful to hear, yeah, people talk about their own health stories and how they put it together.

[00:23:45] Aaron Goodman: It is. I hear you.

Putting it together—it comes, something comes to mind: my son is 10 and his child—his friend—the mother buys or used to buy scented laundry detergent, and the child had eczema. And then she connected the dots—you know, that maybe the fragrance is causing this.

And a lot—for example, I didn’t know that. I used to get brain fog going into… use a public restroom. In Starbucks, for example. And connecting the dots.

And I think a lot of people are doing that, right? Why am I having migraines? Why am I having difficulty concentrating or fear—feeling depressed?

And this is something you’re hearing from people?

[00:24:24] Ami Zota: Yes. Definitely, yes.

And I think what’s hard sometimes is—they might connect these dots—but often the clinicians or the doctors they go see, they’re not well-trained on environmental health science.

So often they’re not… those aren’t the first things they’re going to bring up—or like, that the doctor will bring up. Or even if the person will wonder about, “What about… should I relax my hair?” Or “Is there anything wrong with using scented tampons?”

Often they just don’t know that literature.
And the way we do these studies, it’s very different than doing a randomized clinical trial—because you’re not going to intentionally expose people to bad stuff and wait and see what happens to them versus a control group, right?
That’s not ethical.

So it’s like—they also don’t know sometimes how to interpret the science.
So I think it’s hard sometimes for people to go to their doctor with this type of information—

[00:25:30] Aaron Goodman: Yes—

[00:25:31] Ami Zota: —and have the dialogues that they want.

[00:25:33] Aaron Goodman: I'm really… it's so validating to hear that from you because that's exactly what most of us experience. And we're often told that these symptoms are in our heads, or we have a psychological disorder, we have anxiety, we're depressed—take this prescription medication.

When if we track it back to when the symptoms began, we would know. But the doctor isn't there when we're exposed, right? So they don't know, and they often don't believe us.

[00:26:07] Ami Zota: Because I think it's just that certain types of information, they're much more well trained on. Like for example, when to administer antibiotics—just an example, right?

But I think environmental health is not an area that most clinicians get any formal training on, outside of… they know about lead and they know a little bit about indoor triggers of asthma to some extent.

But even I think also how—what you brought up about like the allergens in fragrance and how that could be exacerbating all kinds of allergies—is I think an underappreciated area.

[00:26:50] Aaron Goodman: Yeah. And because of all the knowledge that you have about the health hazards of these products, do you think there's an urgency for science and medical students—the medical profession—to catch up?

Because disease is changing, isn’t it?

[00:27:06] Ami Zota: Yeah. Yeah, it’s a great point.

And there are some people that are working on that, and I would say chipping away at it. So I have colleagues at UCSF in San Francisco, and they have made some advancements in training—specifically training OB/GYNs, right? So doctors who see pregnant women—on some of these issues.

It’s been hard to get wholesale change, I would say, in medical education. But I definitely think there needs to be more training around environmental health and environmental health science.

[00:27:46] Aaron Goodman: Yeah. I want to ask you one last question, if I may, please.

[00:27:50] Ami Zota: Yes.

[00:27:51] Aaron Goodman: You write—and you talked about—scent-altering…

[00:27:54] Ami Zota: Sorry, say it again?

[00:27:55] Aaron Goodman: Scent. You talk a lot about scent-altering. These products are designed to alter women's scent, and marketing reinforces that notion.

What will it take for us as a society to move beyond that and realize that, hey, natural scent is just fine—we don’t need to alter scents anymore?

[00:28:18] Ami Zota: I would say… I can give you my opinion.

I think this is where everybody's an expert, right? I think dialogue, community conversations, conversations with other parents, conversations with your neighborhood, with your family, right?

Because some of this is like generationally entrenched, right? But I think we also need to shift norms across generations within families.

So I think a lot of it is about conversations.
And also just, I think, walking the walk.

And then it’s hard and it's slow. And I feel the industry also just keeps coming up with products that we really just don't need.
I don't really know how to change that either.

[00:29:06] Aaron Goodman: I imagine in your home, you're making different choices, and with our children, we make different choices.

And the conversations are often very difficult when we live near or with people who are really adamant about wanting or needing to alter their scents. And it doesn't just affect them—it affects everyone.

So it can be very difficult to have those conversations, would you say?

[00:29:28] Ami Zota: Yes, I do. I do. I would say so.

And I think it has to be done—like, I don't really feel comfortable as an outsider coming into a community and getting all preachy about what people should do. But I’m here to help provide information.

We try to also—what we've done in the context of like skin lightening education, which we try to address by talking about colorism as well as the specific hazards—is we work with community groups.

And we work with community groups that are already embedded in those communities, and we provide them with tools, resources, and also talking points that they can use to then facilitate those conversations, right?

Because they're a more trusted entity than like me coming into a community.

[00:30:17] Aaron Goodman: That’s really fascinating.

[00:30:18] Ami Zota: I think there are quite a few models of how to do this.

I think when it comes to fragrance and fragranced products, I think thinking about why—like, we all… in some ways, smell is like this really powerful, right? Sense.

And so in some ways, it's fun to alter your scent. But like, this kind of need to mask our own natural way of smell is, I think, often tapping into other social factors.

[00:30:46] Aaron Goodman: Exactly right. And that's so fascinating—and troubling—what you write about, right? The entrenching colonial views and environmental racism.

[00:30:59] Ami Zota: Right. Right. I think that’s a big… I think that is a lens that is useful when kind of talking and thinking about this problem—as well as solutions for this problem.

[00:31:13] Aaron Goodman: Yeah. It's been fascinating talking with you. Every point you made is just so fascinating, and I hadn't thought about how people might respond to you, the topics that you might bring to them…

In the same way that when we ask neighbors or friends or family to change or be mindful of the products they use—I never thought that you might experience pushback, if we could call it that.

Because people are really, it sounds like, really attached to the products they make. There's a reason they spend their money on it.

[00:31:42] Ami Zota: Yeah.

[00:31:44] Aaron Goodman: Hmm.

[00:31:44] Ami Zota: That’s right. Yeah.

[00:31:46] Aaron Goodman: But it's through education and conversation, we do it.

[00:31:49] Ami Zota: Yeah, that's right. And it's about building trust and meeting people where they're at.
All of this. All that type of stuff.

[00:31:57] Aaron Goodman: Absolutely.
Thank you so much, Professor Zota.

[00:32:00] Aaron Goodman: You've been listening to The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm the host and podcast creator, Aaron Goodman. The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast is by and for the MCS community.

The podcast is generously supported by the Marilyn Brachman Hoffman Foundation and listeners like you.

If you wish to support the podcast, please visit chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org. Your support will help us continue making the podcast available and creating greater awareness about MCS.

To learn more about The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast, follow the podcast on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, BlueSky, and TikTok.

And as always, you can reach me at:
📧 aaron@chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org

Thanks for listening.

[00:32:45] Aaron Goodman (credits disclaimer):
The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast and associated website are the work of Aaron Goodman and made possible with funds from the Marilyn Brachman Hoffman Foundation, supporting efforts to educate and inform physicians, scientists, and the public about Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

The content, opinions, findings, statements, and recommendations expressed in this Chemical Sensitivity Podcast and associated website do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of its sponsors.

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