The Confident Entrepreneur With Jennifer Ann Johnson

Empowering Financial Confidence in Women with Amy West

• Jennifer Ann Johnson • Season 2 • Episode 46

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Why do women, often the backbone of family finances, hesitate to take charge of financial decision-making? Join me and Amy West, Senior VP and Financial Advisor at UBS Private Wealth, as we unpack this critical issue. Drawing from the "Own Your Worth" report, Amy highlights the pivotal role women play in global wealth, a role set to grow significantly by 2030.

We tackle challenges like confidence gaps and balancing household responsibilities, offering insights to help women embrace their financial power. Amy also shares practical strategies for inclusive financial planning and disciplined investing, making this episode a must-listen for female breadwinners and anyone eager to invest smarter.

Visit us at jenniferannjohnson.com and learn how Jennifer can help you build the life you dream of with her online academy, blog, one-on-one coaching, and a variety of other resources!

Jennifer Johnson:

Today we welcome back into the studio Amy West. Amy is a Senior Vice President and Financial Advisor at UBS Private Wealth. She leads the Naples-based team for the Matina Group and brings over 23 years of financial services and wealth management experience to their ultra-high net worth clients and families. Amy also leads the team's community outreach and spearheads the Women and Wealth Initiative. Welcome back.

Jennifer Johnson:

Thank you, thanks for having me, Jennifer. I loved our last podcast. We were talking about women on purpose and about the research that you guys do as a company, and I found it fascinating because I resonated with most of what you were telling me. And so we talked about the the own your worth report about women living with purpose and intention, and today I want to talk to you about the own your own your worth, which is so important. Going from from you know, basically knowing it and then now owning it and the challenges that women and breadwinners face, embracing their financial clout.

Amy West:

Yeah, Love this topic, such an interesting topic. So again, jennifer, thanks for having me the last time. We talked about this Own your Worth research, which we've actually been publishing since 2017. And UBS, being kind of the largest global wealth manager, surveys women around the world, and that are not necessarily their clients. That's exactly right. Not necessarily clients, but surveys women on financial topics around decision making and getting an understanding for how we, as women, we know that we're contributing more than ever financially to our families and we're looking at are we starting to get more engaged in the decision-making for our families around finances? And the answer is we're making some progress, but not enough.

Amy West:

And so the 2023 report was all around, to your point, women breadwinners and when I picked up this research, I thought I knew what some of those answers were going to be, but I was shocked to learn that the punchline is that, even when women are the breadwinners in their families, we still are not taking the lead on financial decision-making. Many times, we're not even engaged with our partner or our spouse in making those decisions. We're deferring and allowing them to make the decisions. And so we did a lot of research on why that is, and it's just it's startling research. So some of the reasons when we think about it.

Amy West:

And I guess I would ask you I know we've talked, a little bit about this, jennifer, but if I were to ask you, why do you think we, as women, don't get involved in making financial decisions for our family.

Jennifer Johnson:

Well, I think it goes down to confidence. Like I can't do it, I don't for me personally, I don't like numbers. Numbers scare me. The whole thought of doing that on top of everything else that I have on my plate is harrowing.

Amy West:

You nailed it. Those are the two.

Jennifer Johnson:

Oh well, well, I didn't even know.

Amy West:

I know I didn't even give you the research. So, interestingly enough of these women that we surveyed breadwinning women, 82% said they felt their spouse knew more and 79% said you know, we're dividing and conquering. So these women are either thinking they don't know enough to your point or they don't have the confidence.

Amy West:

I know last time I mentioned this, this survey around financial literacy, and you know, we know that it's not a competence issue. Women have just as much financial literacy as men broadly. But what we don't have is the confidence to take the seat at the table and help make those decisions. So that's number one. The other one around the divide and conquer, some of the interesting and not surprising, but interesting to know that even in these situations where the women is the breadwinner, most times, more than 90% of the time they also have a spouse that's working outside the house. When the reversewinner, most times, more than 90% of the time they also have a spouse that's working outside the house. When the reverse is true, when the male is the breadwinner, only maybe 60% of the time is the woman working outside the house, but in the case where the woman is a breadwinner, she is still taking on the lion's share of the household chores, namely childcare, cooking, cleaning and laundry. So how do you juggle it all?

Amy West:

And so women are saying I'm taking the lead. Not only am I the breadwinner, not only am I doing the cooking and the cleaning and the childcare. I don't have the time to get involved with my finances. And so that's what we're hearing.

Jennifer Johnson:

And it gives you zero time for yourself. Right, like, what would you rather do? Balance your checkbook or go get a pedicure? Oh my gosh, I think I'll get the pedicure, please, right, we're backed up against a wall when it comes to that. That's true. But I'd be curious to know and I don't know if any of the statistics show this of the women who are the breadwinners, how many of those women are in a position in their company that they manage the finances?

Amy West:

for their company right?

Jennifer Johnson:

I'm just curious.

Amy West:

I'd be curious to see that too. I don't know that we've gone that granular in the research, but I'd be curious to see that One of the big picture statistics. That was eye-opening for me and as we kind of take this research as advisors and figure out how we can better serve women, empower women, bringing women in to the table to have these conversations. When you think about, the face of wealth is changing, so it's becoming increasingly more female. So when we look at 2020, around $11 trillion in global wealth was controlled by females, by women. By 2030, that number will be $30 trillion.

Jennifer Johnson:

Wow, that's like more than doubled. I can math on that.

Amy West:

It's very impactful and the pace of the wealth that women control is growing. So when you think about that, coupled with you, talk about what's happening now with baby boomers transitioning wealth to the next generation, so I've heard a lot around this topic.

Jennifer Johnson:

Yes, and wealth transfer that's what we're talking about. That's exactly it.

Amy West:

So it's going from the baby boomers to Right to Gen X and millennials, and so over the next I'm glad you're sitting down Over the next 10 to 25 years, $60 trillion in wealth will transition from the baby boomer generation to the millennials and the Gen Xers. So what we think about is how, then, are we bringing women to the table? As I mentioned earlier, we're not asking women to take the lead. What we're asking them to do is not completely abdicate those decisions, Just get somewhat involved. Because ultimately you know going back to our conversation on purpose when women want to have an impact, make an impact, whether it's on their immediate family, the next generation or, you know, a philanthropic desire to support generation or a philanthropic desire to support they need to be involved in the finances to ensure they're achieving that goal. So it's more important than ever, with women controlling so much wealth, that we start to empower other women to have a seat at the financial table.

Jennifer Johnson:

I totally agree. I guess it's just eye-opening stuff that came out of your report, like it was for you. You know, in the industry but somebody not in the industry a la me right, it's like wow.

Amy West:

But I see that. Yeah, you can totally see it. One other interesting thing that I found in this research. So when we surveyed men and women and asked them to use a word, that helped describe how they felt about money. Men, just curious about this.

Jennifer Johnson:

Oh, what's going to come out of this?

Amy West:

Yeah, this is a good one. So the number one word used by men was hopeful. Oh, I had another word I thought they would say Okay, hopeful, and the number one word used by women was stress.

Jennifer Johnson:

I can see that Men. Do you know what I thought they would say? What Powerful. Oh yeah, I could see that I did not anticipate hopeful, hopeful, yeah.

Amy West:

Wow, yeah, but it just gives you the framework for how we as women feel in general, to your point, overwhelmed, undereducated, stressed about getting involved in our finances, and there's a lot of work to be done. You know, and I can say that in the industry as advisors, a lot of work to be done to improve how we engage women.

Jennifer Johnson:

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Amy West:

To some extent, education is definitely a component, but one of the things that we've learned from our research right out of the gate is women don't feel like they are treated equally with regard to the financial services industry. So when we survey women, they feel as though they are just not getting the same treatment, and so I think that we have to do better. So when you think about the issues that women cite, one of them is the use of jargon and complexity. So a lot of women surveyed just felt like the system was set up to be overly complex, and they're, and they are just confused by the jargon and and again, that causes them to, you know, take a step back and, just you know, plan to do something else. You know, either divide and conquer or or abdicate or defer those decisions and not take their seat at the financial table. And so, you know, there's so much that we can do, but I think some of the some of the easy ones for us as advisors is you know, move past the jargon. You know, when I'm in a room with clients, I don't need to use big fancy words, you know, to show them that I know what I'm talking about. So that's an easy one.

Amy West:

I think, when it comes to really engaging women, it's to, first and foremost, have a conversation about their goals and about their family. It doesn't start with investments, it starts with planning, it starts with understanding those longer-term aspirations and goals as it relates to their financial lives, and then you kind of back into what the investment strategy looks like to help them fulfill those goals. But when you start with that, women feel much more engaged. They feel like they understand the why. That's the huge part of it. The huge part of it. Yeah, so that's the first one. The second one is don't make any assumptions. So one of the things we learned out of this research is that, you know, when women as breadwinners were surveyed, many of them said, whether it's loved ones or financial professionals, all assumed their spouse was the breadwinner.

Jennifer Johnson:

Of course, so isn't that an interesting thing? Like you know, I know it was years and years and years ago when that was the tradition, right, the guys were, and it never has fallen off.

Amy West:

No, it never has Still to this day.

Amy West:

You know, will it ever? I don't know, jennifer, I don't know. I had a situation just in the last couple of months buying a car and I literally I walked out of the dealership because we're shopping for my car and the salesperson spoke to my husband. Only I finally said we're done so anyway. I don't know. I hope that it at some point changes. But I think the fact that we're having these conversations, we're doing the research, we're hearing from women about what we need to do differently, that's what we need to feel empowered as advisors, to change the conversation. So set the assumptions aside. You know, we as women the other thing we learned in this survey when a financial advisor or a family member is assuming that you know your husband is the breadwinner, we're not even correcting them.

Amy West:

We're letting them make that assumption and go with it. So set the assumptions aside, Simplify the conversation, whether it's with the jargon, whether we're simplifying their ability to engage where we're having the meeting. If it's easier to have it at the kitchen table so that the whole family can be engaged around that conversation, let's have it there.

Jennifer Johnson:

That also breaks down a barrier, right? Because if I'm meeting in somebody's fancy office and that's not my style or it's like, I feel like I'm going to the principal's office.

Amy West:

That's right Around a boardroom with a lot of suits.

Jennifer Johnson:

Like, oh my gosh, I don't know what to do. I'm intimidated, so true.

Amy West:

Jennifer, you're not alone. That's it. So simplify and make it more comfortable, even as it relates to the time that you choose for the meeting.

Amy West:

Pick a time that everyone can be you know, as we're juggling whether it's school pickup or a board meeting make it a time that both of the people in the couple can attend and be engaged in that conversation.

Amy West:

So simple things like that. And then the last one is to start, and this is a little bit more along the lines of the industry, but we have found that when we start with a comprehensive plan that engages women at the stage to say, okay, let's talk about your immediate needs. At UBS we look at three different buckets and the first one is kind of that bucket for their day-to-day liquidity and, interestingly, when we talk about women getting involved in their finances, that's actually one area we do see women engaged. It's the day-to-day Paying the bills, managing the household expenses, things like that. That's the one area that we, as women, are getting involved. So what are the day-to-day needs? What's kind of that intermediate bucket when you think about whether it's your insurance or your savings account or kind of that rainy day account that you need to ensure that you've got expenses covered for the next three or six or 12 months.

Amy West:

And then the legacy bucket is the longer term, and that's the one where we really need to bring women to the table. But it starts by having that high-level conversation about what do you want to accomplish for your family? Talk to us about your legacy plan. Who do you want to accomplish for your family? Talk to us about your legacy plan, who do you want to impact? And then again we back into what we need to do with the finances to ensure you achieve those goals.

Jennifer Johnson:

As we're having this conversation, I'm thinking to myself how have I carried myself out in that whole realm? And you know what it is. I feel like I'm on autopilot. You just go, you go buy groceries, you don't even think about it. You go do this, you don't even think about it, like budgeting and all you, just because you're so caught up in I've got to be here, I've got to do here, and you know it's really funny. My college age daughter said to me mom, you don't live in the moment. Oh Right, right, um, but yet I do financially right. Like you know, I'm always planning ahead of oh well, I have to go do this, this and this. So we plan ahead for all these other things in our life. But I know I don't plan ahead in my financial future. Right, and that is something so pivotal, something so monumental that I should. I know.

Amy West:

And I'm not alone. No, you're not alone. I am guilty and I know better.

Jennifer Johnson:

Isn't that crazy.

Amy West:

Yes, it's funny, so real talk here. So from my own perspective, we talk about kind of leading with planning and making sure you've got all of your documents and all the things. And one of the things I've struggled with for years with my own planning is determining a guardian for my children in my estate planning documents. So for the longest time I buried my head in the sand.

Jennifer Johnson:

We do that, don't we?

Amy West:

I didn't have a will or a trust or anything, because I couldn't make a decision on who to name, so I didn't name anyone, and so I think we all do it. And I think it comes down to one of the things we talk about. When I hear this from women. I challenge them to find an advisor that you can engage with, that you can trust, because if you feel overwhelmed or you don't feel like you can ask questions or you don't feel like you really have a rightful seat at the table, then maybe you should consider finding a different advisor, because you want someone who can truly be a partner, who can push you and challenge you to do the things you need to do, but in a comfortable, safe environment. Who can be a partner, we found, interestingly, women more than men want good advice. So when we think about who's engaging an advisor, more often it's women than men it makes sense.

Amy West:

It does make sense, I get that, and we're also better long-term investors when we actually do get involved and invest. You know why? Because we don't get emotional about our investments. We tend to be more long-term investors when we actually do get involved and invest. You know why? Because we don't get emotional about our investments. We tend to be more long-term. We don't trade as often, so we kind of stay the course, we listen to the advice that we're given a little bit more often. So it's interesting Wow.

Jennifer Johnson:

It's insightful. Yeah, it really is. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you, I love this If our is. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you, I love this If our listeners would like to get a hold of you, Amy?

Amy West:

how do they do so? Sure, so my email, really easy, is awest at ubscom and my cell phone always works 239-233-6757. Fabulous. Thank you so much for being on today. Thank you, Jennifer, Appreciate it.

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