The Confident Entrepreneur With Jennifer Ann Johnson

Back to Business Basics With Theo Etzel

• Jennifer Ann Johnson • Season 3 • Episode 51

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Want a business that lasts longer than the latest trend? In this episode, we sit down with seasoned CEO and board chair Theo Etzel to unpack what truly drives sustainable growth: people-first leadership, ethical compensation, living SOPs, and technology that supports—rather than complicates—the work.

Theo shares how prioritizing employees, customers, and partners builds a flywheel of trust, referrals, and retention. We explore culture as your operating system (not just a poster), how to align compensation with service, and why many commission models quietly backfire. You’ll also learn when to stop wearing every hat, where to delegate first, and how strong finance talent multiplies your impact.

We dig into system-building that scales—think SOPs that outlive any one person, process audits that eliminate waste, and tech investments that bring clarity, not chaos. Plus, Theo lays out a practical approach to continuous learning and leadership: mentorship, peer groups, and the humility to fix root causes, not just symptoms.

If this conversation sparked new ideas about culture, compensation, or scaling smart, be sure to follow the show, share it with a founder friend, and leave a review. Your feedback helps more builders find insights like these.

Visit us at jenniferannjohnson.com and learn how Jennifer can help you build the life you dream of with her online academy, blog, one-on-one coaching, and a variety of other resources!

Jennifer Johnson:

In the world of business, it's easy to get caught up in the latest trends, the hottest marketing strategies, or the newest tech tools. But today we're going back to the basics. We're talking about the fundamental building blocks that every successful business needs, regardless of industry or size. Think of it like constructing a house. You can have the most beautiful design and the fanciest fixtures, but without a strong foundation, that house won't stand the test of time. The same goes for your business. Whether you're just starting out in your business or you're looking to strengthen your existing business, this episode will provide you with invaluable insights to build a business that not only survives, but thrives. So let's roll up our sleeves and start by laying the groundwork for your business success. Today we welcome into the studio Theo Etzel. Theo brings decades of experience as a business executive, as the CEO and owner of Conditioned Air since 1995, and now more recently chairman of the board. Theo has helped turn their passion for customer care and quality products and services into a thriving company serving all of Southwest Florida from Marco Island to Sarasota. Welcome.

Theo Etzel:

Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

Jennifer Johnson:

Yeah, you have an impressive resume. You have been in business for a long time.

Theo Etzel:

For a long time and a lot of varied things. So starting out developing hotels around the country.

Jennifer Johnson:

I didn't know that. I did not know that about you.

Theo Etzel:

Yeah. And uh then uh owned some Ben and Jerry's franchises up in Atlanta.

Jennifer Johnson:

Oh my gosh.

Theo Etzel:

Work for Habitat for Humanity and their land acquisition side. Um, leaned on my hotel experience to do that. And then uh got the opportunity to come down to Naples. I'm a Miami native, so we got the the opportunity to come back to Florida from living in Atlanta. And in 95, got the opportunity to become a partner in that business in conditioned air. It's a very small company at that time. Um, but started and didn't hadn't been in the air conditioning business before, but I'd been in what I call the people business. Right. And so, you know, if you're looking for foundational and fundamental things, um you can't do it without people.

Jennifer Johnson:

Let's start there. Okay.

Theo Etzel:

Right, yeah.

Jennifer Johnson:

Because it does start with the people. And a lot of business owners don't really, they don't get that right away. They're all worried about their processes or they're all worried about, you know, what widget am I going to sell and everything, but they kind of forget about that people aspect, and that's where it can go wrong.

Theo Etzel:

True. And so what I what I would tell anybody is if you set out in your business to make money, and money is the goal, you have the wrong goal. You have to focus on helping people, caring about people, whether they're on your team or your customers or your vendors, partners, professionals that you rely on. You have to care about them first. Do very well in your laying out your processes because I will tell you that good people love good processes.

Jennifer Johnson:

That's a very good point.

Theo Etzel:

Good people love good processes because it makes their job easier. Right. And so you to really delve into it, you need to practice servant leadership, where the leader is serving the people that work for them. And putting people first, if you have a good product and a solid uh ethics, so your reputation is good, the money will come. People will want to do business with you.

Jennifer Johnson:

And people will want to work with you.

Theo Etzel:

Yes. They want to be on your team. And you'll get you'll get referrals from your own people to other people to say, you need to come work where I work. And so it snowballs in a good way. But I have seen time and time again businesses that it was all about the dollar. And people were expendable. And it does not not work out, never works out, in my experience. And I've been subject to that in some roles that I had where I felt like, hmm, they really don't. Right. This isn't this is not a rewarding culture here. Um, not a caring culture. And I think if you if you set out to do that, um you you are miles ahead of a lot of people in business.

Jennifer Johnson:

And that's, you know, that's really great advice for a new business owner specifically, because I remember when I started in business over two decades ago, I didn't even know what culture was. And and I don't know, I mean, I didn't hear any talk about it. I didn't, it wasn't on my plate. I've never read a book about it at that point, nothing. Right. And now we hear, I mean, it's such a great service for new business owners that were talking about culture.

Theo Etzel:

Correct. Right. And culture is key. Um, Peter Drucker, who's a famous management guru a long time ago, said culture eats strategy for breakfast. And I would I would tell you that a a business with a great culture and maybe some C processes and B processes will absolutely destroy a business with A processes and no culture and no no structure in their culture. Uh so it's the it's about building the team.

Jennifer Johnson:

It is.

Theo Etzel:

And that's where culture comes in. Every business has a culture. Every business.

Jennifer Johnson:

Whether it's good or bad.

Theo Etzel:

Correct. What do you want it to be? Because if you want it to be your culture, right? John Maxwell says there's no such thing as business ethics. They're the ethics of the leaders of the business. Right. And I'm a big ethics person. Um, do it right, treat people right, be honest, admit mistakes, make it right. Right. To the best of your ability, make it right. But people they want to see that and feel that culture, but it starts from the top. And when I was CEO and getting this started and and sort of taking over and and figuring this out, um, what I wanted it to be. I wanted the the to be honest, the air conditioning industry as a whole has a bad reputation.

Jennifer Johnson:

Okay. I didn't know that.

Theo Etzel:

Yes.

Jennifer Johnson:

So because I'm not in it, but it does.

Theo Etzel:

And the reason it does is because so many people practice um uh compensation plans that pit the service technician against the consumer.

Jennifer Johnson:

Oh, I see.

Theo Etzel:

So if I'm a service technician for, I'm gonna say over 50% of the companies do this. If I'm a service technician for one of those companies, I'm being paid a commission or a percentage of the repair bill.

Jennifer Johnson:

Sure.

Theo Etzel:

And if you, you know, I have a car payment this Friday.

Jennifer Johnson:

Oh, right, yes.

Theo Etzel:

Okay, uh-huh. So if I'm at your house and it's a simple fix and I'm only, you know, it's really not that much, I I have a lot of pressure on me to bump that bill up, find something else wrong, quote, wrong.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

Right. And a lot of people have sales quotas. Well, I was determined we're not going down that. We will not go down that road. And so we didn't. And um it it allowed us to make the staff very comfortable with telling the truth because there was no pressure on them to um uh lie or bump up the price or anything. They got no more money for it.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

Um so you have to pick what you want the culture to be. And then you have to repeat that. You have to hold it high. And so I people used to I used to call myself, they'd say, Oh, you're the CEO. I said, Well, actually, I'm the CBR. I'm the chief broken record.

Jennifer Johnson:

I love that. That's great.

Theo Etzel:

I'm the CBR. You have to keep repeating you have to repeat it like a parrot. You cannot say, and and I had people on my staff that said, I wish I could tell them just once and be done. And I said, You you get over that because that's not how human interaction works.

Jennifer Johnson:

And you had a really great, great point where you know, I remember early in my business when I was in wedding and event planning and at a bridal shop, I was pressured by everyone that I hired to be commissioned. And I'm like, no, because then that it just creates the wrong culture that I had envisioned for my company. That's kind of what you spoke on.

Theo Etzel:

Right. Exactly. You I want the technician to be the partner for the consumer. Right. Right. And and I want them to be on the same side to say, here's what's best. And you can trust me because this is what's best to to fix this. Or hey, you shouldn't put that money in there. You should buy a new unit at this time because it's too old. Whatever it is, I want them to feel comfortable with the advice they're getting.

Jennifer Johnson:

Sure.

Theo Etzel:

And so, you know, it's um and and you don't establish that if you pit somebody against somebody. Because you can preach it. Yeah. You can preach it all you want to, but wherever you hang that carrot is the direction that the person's gonna go.

Jennifer Johnson:

Absolutely.

Theo Etzel:

I mean, that's just so you I can talk a good game, but if I hang the carrot over here, they're they're turning, turning towards it.

Jennifer Johnson:

And it it just it sounds like so much of what we're talking about is to is really the core values of the leader, whether they're whether they're the owner of the company, they're the CEO, whatever, that's gonna drive.

Theo Etzel:

Right. And you want and you want you want buy-in from the people. And you want to attract the people that fit that culture. So in and it over time, this is not an overnight thing, but over time that happens because people see that you're serious about it. And when someone violates that culture, there has to be consequences for it. Like you don't get to work here. And then if it's really driven in the team, and this is the test, if it's really driven in the team, team members will come and say, Hey, you know what? They're not doing the right thing here. This is gonna hurt all of us. And you need to know that. Um, so that people have it internalized.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

And it matters.

Jennifer Johnson:

And so after a while, I would imagine, you know, like attracts like and it just starts building your team with all of the right people.

Theo Etzel:

The right people is the key. The right people is the key. And and I would tell you that that's probably one of the things that I see um entrepreneurs, especially starting out, make a mistake. Because let's face it, when you're an entrepreneur, if you're if you're a founder and you're really starting out and you're bootstrapping, which a lot of people do.

Jennifer Johnson:

Absolutely. Right?

Theo Etzel:

They do. You are, you know, as they say, chief cook and bottle washer.

Jennifer Johnson:

Exactly. The cook, the baker, the candlestick maker.

Theo Etzel:

Exactly. So you wear a lot of hats, right? You you you chart the course, you you bill for things, you have to buy things, you have to go collect the money, uh, you have to see what what you need to do to market. You have to do all these things. And as the company builds, or as that organization builds, it's not an organization if it's just you.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

And and so what happens is all these hats you wear, they start to weigh you down. And you can't focus on and do what you need to do and what you're best at. And usually founders are best at telling the story.

Jennifer Johnson:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Theo Etzel:

Why did you do this? Why are we in business? What are we trying to solve? Right? What how are we going to do it? Uh, all that people should figure out how to offload things that one they aren't that good at, that they don't like to do, and recognize they need help in this area. And then you need to get the right person to help you in that area. I would tell you that the number one area that I see people should gain help in is the accounting side.

Jennifer Johnson:

Yes.

Theo Etzel:

Know your numbers, have somebody that's good. Don't need a full-on CFO, typically at the beginning, but you need to think that you're gonna work into needing that position as you grow. Because you need somebody that has finance background, not just put the numbers in the bucket background, which is more just like pure uh bookkeeper. Right. Right. So you'll graduate as you go through time to needing different things. And you have to kind of recognize that.

Jennifer Johnson:

And but how do you do you suggest like someone sit down and do a time audit of these are the things I'm doing? And then they look at it and go, Well, I don't really like this. I don't like this, I'm really good at this, and this lights me up. How would you suggest somebody going about an exercise to figure out what they should and shouldn't be doing? Because that is ultimately you have to get out of your way, your own way.

Theo Etzel:

Correct.

Jennifer Johnson:

To be able to grow your business. But how do you figure that out?

Theo Etzel:

You would look to me, you would look at where do I spend my time that makes the most impact on the company? And typically that's going to be in sales somewhere. And andor product development or uh being out and about marketing or whatever it is. I know people that have, you know, there are a lot of people that have come up through trades, let's say, and they move from working in the field and now they're in the office. That's a very hard transition. It's a very different skill, very different skill set in doing that. Right. I didn't, I didn't come into the business this that way. I came in from a business background, learned the air conditioning side from the the all the theories of air conditioning and all the the nuts and bolts and parts. But you don't want me working on your on your unit. Just gonna say it straight up, right? I mean, that's not my wheelhouse. No, it's not my wheelhouse. I've known people that have been smart enough to say, I now own this company, but I don't want to run the company. I need help doing that. So I'm gonna hire somebody to do the administrative and the running of the company, the personnel and all that. I want to be in the field, I want to be the face, I want to be the marketing side of it. That's where I make the the most impact that I can do productively. And so it's really turns out that it in any business, I don't care what it is, um, where do you make the greatest impact to the bottom line of the business and for yourself and and and the the way in which you're going to the market? And you have to offload and get help in other areas.

Jennifer Johnson:

I think a lot of small business owners that are listening to this podcast, this is this is like the golden nugget because they're in the position like I was a few years back where I was doing everything because I thought, oh, you know, that mentality of, oh, I can do it better, I can do it faster, I don't need to involve anyone. But then I was chained to being there. And I couldn't be out working in on my business because I was always working in it. And I think that's like a number one pain point for a lot of small business owners.

Theo Etzel:

Correct. So there comes a point, you know, if you're in the very beginning, you really don't have a lot of cash.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

Typically. Right. Uh, and and or it's a scarce resource, and you you might not feel comfortable committing to paying somebody that you know, right? I'm gonna use this up, maybe I maybe I don't get that back.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

You know. Um but after a time that becomes to where you have to make that investment. And and the um, you know, the long and short of it is that as you invest in the business, it becomes more efficient.

Jennifer Johnson:

Sure.

Theo Etzel:

With the right people, it becomes more efficient. And you have extra sets of eyeballs looking at why are we doing this this questioning.

Jennifer Johnson:

Kind of questioning?

Theo Etzel:

Yeah, auditing the process or auditing, you know, what what is the purpose of this? I know we did this two years ago and we had to, but do we still have to do that?

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

Um, and and so ferreting out inefficiencies is a is a big thing. Um, but it takes an investment. Uh, and and a lot of people are hesitant to hire somebody because then they actually have to manage them.

Jennifer Johnson:

That is the other end of it.

Theo Etzel:

No, that's that's probably even a bigger holdback. That now I have to find, I gotta get this guy a list of stuff he should do.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

And and what if I I mean, I know what to do because I've been doing it. But how do I how do I transfer the knowledge?

Jennifer Johnson:

Yes.

Theo Etzel:

How do I transfer that? And that becomes a hindrance to people because they're a little scared and hesitant to say, well, you know, now now I gotta come up with something. Right. Right. But you really have to work to get over that. And and it's a flywheel effect because once somebody gets into it and really starts digging, and if they're good, they're gonna come to you and say, What else can I take off your plate?

Jennifer Johnson:

Right. If you give that autonomy to them to be able to do it.

Theo Etzel:

Yes, and if you're going to give responsibility to them, then you have to give them a measure of authority.

Jennifer Johnson:

Of course. Which is also scary.

Theo Etzel:

Very, because entrepreneurs tend to be control freaks.

Jennifer Johnson:

No. Wait a minute. I know, right? It's not just me.

Theo Etzel:

Not just you. But you know, business is a team sport. And and quite frankly, when you get a good team together, it it takes off. And this is why this is why you see I I I I do sports analogies sometimes, and this is why you see, you know, a regular NBA game, let's say, uh, of two teams that are really good and gelled and cohesive teams. That's a really exciting game. Most people are disappointed with the all-star games because it's it's the it's the key solo person that's the star on the other team, but now they're having to be a team player on all the stars. And they don't have the camaraderie teamwork portion of that. And I would submit, I would submit to you that a top-rated NBA team could beat an all-star team any day just because of the teamwork and the culture of that team. Where egos are set aside to make the team better?

Jennifer Johnson:

Right. Great analogy. You you touched on something. Uh we were talking a little bit about processes and how you said, you know, it's knowledge, it's transfer of knowledge, essentially. How important is it for a company at some point to create that stand the SOP, the standard operating procedures and operations manual? Right. Whatever you want to call it, playbook, whatever you want to call it in your company, how important is that to growth within a company? Because again, a lot of small businesses, whether they're just starting out or they're a few years in, they're probably not going to have that. Because again, they're doing it all. But how important is that key aspect into taking their business to the next level?

Theo Etzel:

Well, I would tell you it's extremely key after a while, because people don't last in your organization forever. And I would prefer not to have the position depended on a personality. I would like the position based on when you sit down and you're going to go to work, this is how you do it. So it's laid out, and that is transferable to the next person that comes in because you can't predict the future.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

You don't know when you'll have a new person or when something will happen to the person that you have there.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

And so it's so much easier if you have somebody that's on the way out, say they somebody got moved and they have to move with them. Um, you know, here's two weeks, three weeks. Now we have to hire somebody, get them in, and now you have to sit down and show them everything that you just did. But you know, over time, you we kept adding things to your plate. Right. So your your original sort of job description is not that position anymore. And I've been in situations before where all of a sudden to replace the one person, we needed two. Because when we really delved in and figured out what that person was really responsible for that had sort of landed on their desk, like, okay, as we're growing, this is becoming overwhelming. No one's gonna come in here and say, I can do that, because they didn't grow up with it.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right. Yeah.

Theo Etzel:

Right. So people grow into positions. So be very careful about having somebody too top heavy on function, where to replace that, it's multiple people. Right.

Jennifer Johnson:

Because you're over number one, you're overworking that person, probably.

Theo Etzel:

Yes.

Jennifer Johnson:

And, you know, then you realize later that, oh gosh, made a mistake here.

Theo Etzel:

Right. And and and that person's not likely to, in most cases, speak up and say, I can't handle this anymore.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right. Yeah.

Theo Etzel:

Because that's a sign of weakness. And they don't want to disappoint. Of course. Of course. So so they're gonna be hesitant to say, no, no, no, no, no more. Um, so yeah.

Jennifer Johnson:

And and and these processes, these the standard operating, whatever you want to call it, is a living, breathing thing. It needs to be updated.

Theo Etzel:

Yes, all the time. And I don't say all the time, meaning weekly. I just mean all the time. Like, it's great to do an efficiency audit at least once a year and to walk around and kind of look and say, what do you spend your time on?

Jennifer Johnson:

See, that's the other thing that I think as small businesses we get wrong too, because we don't do that.

Theo Etzel:

It's I mean, we found we found people that that were doing spreadsheets entering all this information on a spreadsheet. And we asked, what what do you do with that spreadsheet? I don't know. It just lives in the lives on the it lives on the H drive, you know? And and I suppose someone looks at it. Nobody's looked at that in five years. Why, why are we doing this? Who told you to do that? Oh, the last person that sat here told me that's this is how you handle it. So, I mean, they're glaring mistakes, but they're right in front of you and you don't see it on a daily basis.

Jennifer Johnson:

So it's a process audit, essentially.

Theo Etzel:

Yes. So you have to ask, why do you do that?

Jennifer Johnson:

That's really, really important.

Theo Etzel:

Is there a better way to do this?

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

Right. Is there a better way to do this? Can you be more efficient?

Jennifer Johnson:

Mm-hmm. Right. Because how many times do, you know, you start like you said, you start in a position and somebody makes something up, doesn't tell anybody, doesn't ask, and then all of a sudden that gets transferred to somebody else. And then, like you said, you came in and you're like, why are you doing that?

Theo Etzel:

Right.

Jennifer Johnson:

And they're like, I don't know, because I was told that my manager didn't know that.

Theo Etzel:

Right, right. So so it happens to everybody. It happens all over everybody. And technology changes, and as technology changes, certain functions don't have to exist as far as a process is concerned. It's being now handled by the software package you have. Right. It's automated, it's automatic. Um, and that's a that's a critical thing. And if you want to, I mean, today, in today's world, if you want to stay up with competition, um you better be up with technology.

Jennifer Johnson:

I'm glad you brought that up. That was my next question.

Theo Etzel:

Okay. So, yeah, I mean, that's just the productivity that you can gain with the right implementation of technological tools uh is remarkable. And the insights that you can find. Now, I I have to tell you, I my my business experience did not include the sort of the last five years of big data analytics.

Jennifer Johnson:

And AI and RPG.

Theo Etzel:

Right, all that, right? That wasn't what what I had at my disposal. So the idea that you can delve into things and parse things and look at them and say, oh, well, I see, you know, we can analyze when are our heaviest call volumes? When are the, you know, when when is the most likely time, what day of the week are we the busiest, or anything. But people can delve into key metrics in their business to say, we can improve this. Right? Hold time or anything on the phone or how fast we get back to somebody on a message board or whatever that is. We can analyze it, look at it, and then correct for it.

Jennifer Johnson:

And it's much quicker now because things, some things are like at the flip of a button. Oh, I can figure this out right now.

Theo Etzel:

And so, you know, our our, I would tell you, one of the initiatives in in the company, and I'm not in it on the day-to-day business anymore, right? Director and a partner, but not day-to-day. Um, but I know they're looking at ways to not have to do anything in Excel.

Jennifer Johnson:

Oh, sure.

Theo Etzel:

So that the enterprise software that has the reporting ability automatically populates into the format that people want to see and need to see it. So you don't have to manually enter things in. Well, that's a huge huge time saver and productivity saver uh and increase. And so um, you know, if you think about it, the United States as a as a nation, it's the the most productive per employee nation in the world.

Jennifer Johnson:

Today.

Theo Etzel:

Today. And the reason is because we've been early adopters of technology to improve productivity. And that's critical. It is if you want to stay up. And so I would encourage anybody. Now you can go broke chasing technology.

Jennifer Johnson:

You sure can.

Theo Etzel:

Okay, so I'm not saying that every year you buy everybody a new computer because you could. It's always changing. I mean, every six months something changes. Or cell phones, right? Cell phones, all that. So you have to you have to really look at, okay, is this good enough? And can we put on it what we need to? I'm a big believer, is you get as much life out of that as you can. And then when you have to make a change, you make a large platform change. Okay. So in other words, don't go up one model. If there's five models newer, then you land on the best that you can afford and and run that out.

Jennifer Johnson:

Because it'll last you longer because you've already upped so far.

Theo Etzel:

Yeah. So that I do that personally, and I and I and that's what we've done in the business. And it's try to get as much lifespan out as as you can until you rick recognize that okay, we're falling behind here. We can't do these certain things. We need to be able to do it, make them make the move.

Jennifer Johnson:

And and one last question I have is education. I have a saying, ABL, always be learning. Yes. How important is that for an entrepreneur?

Theo Etzel:

I think it's critical. Um, mentorship is uh a good way to find somebody that can mentor you uh to share knowledge and wisdom and experience. There's no teacher like your own experience. Right. Okay. I have bumps on my forehead still from from from things I thought was a door and it was actually. Actually, a wall. So that's great. I know this. Right. So your own experience is always going to be the most lasting experience and teacher. But you should pay attention to people that say, you know, watch out for that curve in the road. It's coming up. When you get this big, you're going to find that you're dealing with these problems, not the ones you're dealing with today. And those kinds of things. I was in an organization for 18 years called, uh first started out as called the Executive Committee, TEC, and now it's called Vistage. And I was in that for 18 years.

Jennifer Johnson:

Oh, wow.

Theo Etzel:

And it's a great group. Great group. CEOs, non-competing CEOs in local market. Um time takes time, takes money. Right? It's an investment in you. And I treated that as continuous grad school.

Jennifer Johnson:

Sure.

Theo Etzel:

Um, so the speakers we would have teaching and and then implementing those thoughts and and ideas, um, and then being able to talk to CEOs and other people, other owners, when you'd say, you know, I'm facing this problem. Let me describe it for you. Has anybody had a problem like that? And can you tell me how you dealt with it? And we would kick it all around and and dice and slice and and do everything and peel back that onion. And often what we would find is what I described was a symptom. And really, when you peeled it all back and got down to it, that wasn't my core problem. That was a symptom of the problem. Here's your core problem. You need to address that.

Jennifer Johnson:

Right.

Theo Etzel:

And it would point me in a different direction. And so you have to be to be learning, you also have to be humble. Yes. Okay. So a lot of people think humble is being a doormat. But I'm going to tell you, it takes a lot more courage to show that you're humble than it does weakness. Because you need to be able to say, I don't know, but I want to know. And you have to have that yet mentality. I'm not there yet. We don't do that yet, but we want to. And we need to learn how to do it.

Jennifer Johnson:

That's amazing advice. Amazing.

Theo Etzel:

So that's where I'd say.

Jennifer Johnson:

You have given our listeners so many good tidbits today. I can't thank you enough.

Theo Etzel:

Thank you. Oh, I appreciate that. Appreciate being on it.

Jennifer Johnson:

I mean, it's amazing. If our listeners want to get in touch with you, how can they do so?

Theo Etzel:

Sure. Easiest way is through my email. And that's theo at theoetzel.com.

Jennifer Johnson:

And you have a fabulous book. Love your book.

Theo Etzel:

Thank you.

Jennifer Johnson:

Um, I will also try to share that on uh the podcast notes. It's a wonderful book. So thank you again so much for being on.

Theo Etzel:

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Jennifer. I appreciate being here.

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Jennifer Johnson

Host