My fave quotes from this interview,:
In this epsisode, I talk with Rakhi about:
I talk with Abby about:
Here are resources we mentioned in this episode:
More about Rakhi:
www.queencitypelvichealth.com
@queencitypelvichealth on Facebook and Instagram
Rakhi Srivastava, MOT, OTR/L is a Pelvic Floor Occupational Therapist and owner
Pick up your recordings of the OTs in Pelvic Health Summit 2024 here. ($100 off + 1.6 CEUs!)
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Pelvic OTPs United -- Lindsey's off-line interactive community for $39 a month!
Inside Pelvic OTPs United you'll find:
...
My fave quotes from this interview,:
In this epsisode, I talk with Rakhi about:
I talk with Abby about:
Here are resources we mentioned in this episode:
More about Rakhi:
www.queencitypelvichealth.com
@queencitypelvichealth on Facebook and Instagram
Rakhi Srivastava, MOT, OTR/L is a Pelvic Floor Occupational Therapist and owner
Pick up your recordings of the OTs in Pelvic Health Summit 2024 here. ($100 off + 1.6 CEUs!)
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Pelvic OTPs United -- Lindsey's off-line interactive community for $39 a month!
Inside Pelvic OTPs United you'll find:
...
Lindsey
We have the distinct pleasure to being a fly on the wall as we listen to Rocky, a fieldwork mentor, and Abby, a fieldwork student, come together to talk about their amazing collaboration at Rocky's private practice. I love when Abby, the student talks about how she got seven job offers after she left Rocky, and how she worked through her greatest challenge time management. I adored listening to Rocky talk about how she helped her clients understand the importance of a student working with them, how she dealt with her own imposter syndrome as the field work mentor, and how she hopes to see more OTs get out into the world and accept the jobs waiting for them. Let's get into it now. New and seasoned OTs are finding their calling in pelvic health. After all, what's more ADL than sex peeing and poop. But here's the question. What does it take to become a successful, fulfilled, and thriving OT in pelvic health? How do you go from beginner to seasons and everything in between? Those are the questions, and this podcast will give you the answers. We are inspired OTs. We are out of the box OTs. We are pelvic health OTs. I'm your host, Lindsay Vestal, and welcome to the OTs and Pelvic Health Podcast.
Rocky is a pelvic floor OT and owner of Queen City Pelvic Health and Wellness, which she launched in April, 2022 in Cincinnati. Rocky graduated with a masters of OT from Xavier University and began her career at the Christ Hospital, working in inpatient rehab and acute care. In 2018, Rocky helped establish and grow a very effective and thriving pelvic floor therapy program for the hospital system. Rocky served as an adjunct professor in OT at Xavier for nearly five years where she taught lectures and labs. Abby is a new grad OT living in Cincinnati outside of work. She loves discovering a new cocktail bar and playing with her cats.
Welcome ladies. Rocky, you decided that you wanted to support a student while you were in the midst of starting your business, Queen City Pelvic Health. So tell us a little bit about how you came to this decision and how you ended up finding Abby.
Rakhi
So Abby found me. I never would've done this if Abby hadn't reached out to me directly. Uh, I was working at my hospital job and already knew I was gonna be leaving, uh, to start a practice, but nobody at my job knew. I hadn't put in my notice yet. So she emailed me at my work email, which at the time was what I had on the OTs for pelvic health. Um, the, what is the thing? The mentor list or the practice list? Yes, yes. So it was on that list, I think where she found me. Um, and probably she can tell you more about how she decided who she was gonna hit up, but, uh, she sent me an email to my work email and I was like, Well, I'm not gonna talk to her about this, um, you know, on my work email and tell the people I'm gonna quit when nobody else knows.
So let me just call you. So I did call her. Um, so Abby's not my first fieldwork student. I have had several over my career. Uh, lots of level ones, lots of level two students, but they've all been an inpatient rehabilitation. So, um, a more controlled environment or, you know, somebody can cover you while you're getting a student acclimated and teaching things <laugh>. Whereas, um, I don't think I could have taken a pelvic health student at the hospital because I was so booked, you know, 40, 40 patients a week, um, kind of insane and crazy. Um, so I decided that I would take a student now, I mean, I thought about it a lot. Um, I love teaching. I actually used to teach adjunct at Savior University, and, um, so I thought, you know, that would be great to have a student, but I, you know, at the hospital, again, I wouldn't have had time, but in a new practice, I'm not gonna be full right away.
So would that mean I would actually have time to teach a student? And would it be kind of nice to have somebody to run my ideas by and, um, especially, you know, somebody younger, maybe she can help me with the social media side of things and things like that. So kind of thinking along those lines. Um, and then especially going from working in a big clinic to being by myself, I was like, Am I gonna like being by myself? Maybe it would be nice to have somebody. Um, so kind of all those factors. But yeah, Abby found me and we chatted. I told her up front that I didn't know how many clients I would have. I didn't know that I'd be able to fill her, you know, full time work. Um, but let's talk to your, uh, field work coordinator at your school because she may just like, you know, not agree with this idea at all.
So we did talk to her and I think based on the fact that it is just a specialty, and Abby had an interest in, uh, pelvic floor before she even started grad school. Um, and that teacher was like, that professor was like, I'm, you know, this is all she's ever talked about. So she was like, Okay, somebody's willing to give her an opportunity. Um, I think she also liked that I had been an adjunct professor, so just kind of having an idea of what her N B C O T exam and things would cover. Um, so I told her, I was like, you know, if we're not working on pelvic floor patients, like I can teach her other things. We can go over other things that would be on her exam. You know, we can practice manual muscle testing, we can practice, um, you know, transfers if we need to. Um, but there's ways we can fill our time. So I think that professor was, um, and Abby's talked to her a lot more, but uh, was was like, Okay, let's try it. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Is this the craziest idea I've ever had? Or is this the best idea I've ever had? And it turned out to be pretty great, a great setup.
Lindsey :
I love that I started my business of functional pelvis in 2014 when my son was three weeks old. And so when I was, you know, planning our podcast today, I, you know, I felt, I felt akin to you. I was like, Well, it's kind of like starting, you know, starting a new chapter of your life and taking on a whole new responsibility. And I was dying to hear how you answered this question because it's, it, you're exactly right. It could go one of two ways. And I'm gonna keep the, the audience on suspense here a little bit because we are dying to know if your schedule got full <laugh>. But let's, let's, uh, let's keep that for, for another, for the next question here. But Abby, I wanna hear from you about, so you're the one who found Rocky. Tell us about that and tell us a little bit about what that kind of like internal story and journey was like for you, like finding her, reaching out to her, kind of then bringing it back to your field work coordinator. I mean, tell, give us a scoop on that.
Abby:
Absolutely. It was kind of a crazy process because, um, with my school and with field work, the thing I kept kind of hearing from my professors was, we don't want you to zone in on something and not have entry level skills. And so I had actually already set up my field work to not be in pelvic health, and I was gonna do acute care and I was gonna do home health, and that was kind of already prepared. And I was sitting with that and I was just like, Ah, I can't not do something with women's health. Like, that's what I came to school to do. That's what I said in my graduate school interview I was gonna do. Like, that has been my kind of just my one thing that I've wanted to come out doing. And so I kind of just had this internal struggle, and I had been reaching out to a bunch of pelvic health people locally and kind of with, in neighboring states of Nebraska where I was from.
(08:40)
And just always kind of trying to get them on the phone, get them over email, get them to speak at our school, to just kind of learn a little bit more about pelvic health and kind of feel more well rounded about all the different patient populations you can serve. But in the end, I was just like, Oh my gosh, I have to do a level two field work in pelvic health. Like, and so I just got on the OTs for Pelvic Health Facebook page. I went to the directory of providers, and I just started kind of going down the list and stalking different ones and just kind of seeing if there was somebody who'd been doing this for a while who kind of served the patient populations I was interested in, and kind of just cold emailing them. And so I found Rocky and I found her LinkedIn, and I just saw how she had started the program at her hospital system.
(09:35)
She had taught adjunct, she was just a very well rounded, self-driven ot. Like, just reading about her online, I was like, Oh my gosh, I wanna be her mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so I reached out to her via email and just briefly introduced myself where I was from, that I was looking for a field work in women's health in pelvic health. And from there, things just kind of evolved very quickly. She was like, Um, yeah, just call me. And I was like, Call her. And I was like, Well, this is a good sign. And we talked on the phone and the whole conversation was kind of her being like, Well, this is my plan. Like, I'm about to do something a little different, and I don't know if you would like to, you know, this might be too crazy. In the whole time I was just thinking, Oh my gosh, this is a dream come true. Like this is, it's like my birthday or something. Um, like I would love to embark on this private practice journey and like see this whole business evolution alongside getting all these skills that she has. And, um, yeah, from there we talked to my field work educator who was kind of skeptical about it initially. And then after she spoke with Rocky alone, she, um, emailed me in all caps, I love Rocky, we're going to Cincinnati. So it was a done deal after that. Wow.
Lindsey (11:04):
<laugh>, I've got, I'm smiling ear to ear. That is like, that truly is like a dream, a dream come true to connect with someone that you really admire and respect and, you know, find yourself wanting to mirror her journey in some way. And, um, Abby, what I'm really hearing from you is a clarity of vision. Um, you wanted something from what Rocky said, even before you entered grad school and, and nothing was gonna get in your way. And I feel like that is a common thread from a lot of the OTs I speak with, is that there's a little bit of, of tur, you know, uh, trepidation or a little bit of rockiness, not you, Rocky, a different type, rocky <laugh> rockiness that ensues. And that doesn't let us get, that doesn't stand in our way. And, uh, I I really admire that. We're you nervous? Were, was there any aspect of this that you were like, Oh my gosh, I'm just really, I'm nervous about this?
Abby (11:59):
I was, I felt like I had to do a lot of convincing. First I had to just convince an OT to take me, and it had to be, you know, an OT that would work into the field work who's gonna work basically full time and who, you know, had a facility that could take me and had patients that were willing to let me be a part of this kind of very intimate sort of treatment sessions. Um, and also I just wanted to show up and, you know, not be unimpressive to mm-hmm. <affirmative> to Rakhi. And so one of the agreements that we came to was, as part of me going to be her student, was that I would take a pelvic floor course prior to coming so that I could have the internal stuff a little bit under me already. So that was part of our agreement.
(12:53)
So I registered to take the Herman and Wallace pelvic floor one to get some hands on internal treatment prior to coming. And that was a huge help just making me feel like, okay, I'm ready for whatever comes from this field work. But it was nerve wracking. And I, I mean, the imposter syndrome, even just as a student felt like it was overwhelming to kind of take on what was a specialty practice that I kept hearing from other OTs and PTs. Like, Oh, I didn't get into this until a lot later. Like, there's no rush. There's no rush. Um, but inside I was just kind of feeling like, this is all I wanna do. Like if I don't start now, when will I start? And so just feeling like this is what I was meant to do, and this is the area of OT that I was gonna be working in, hopefully from the get go, kept me kind of feeling a little incompetent confidence and motivation to keep pushing for it. Mm-hmm.
Lindsey (13:53):
<affirmative>, I can, I can relate to that so much. I, uh, I think that's incredible. Rocky, how, you know, you have, you have had students before, so this, this was not your first rodeo, however, this was your first rodeo when it comes to pelvic health student as well as you being in your own business. So can you share with us a little bit about how you created structure and how you created a vision or a student program for Abby?
Rakhi (14:23):
Well, that was crazy, um, doing all that at the same time because Abby arrived, uh, about three weeks after I started treating clients. So, um, I gave my hospital a long notice. Uh, I gave them one full month full time, and then I gave them one month of two days a week. So then I started my practice the following month. So I basically had like several days a week free to work on the practice and work on, um, the student program. So I didn't have anything obviously, but the hospital where I worked had a really well renowned student program, so I really modeled after what we did there. Uh, as in like, you know, what do we wanna do every week? We did weekly meetings. Um, sometimes they were really fast, but we definitely converged every week to try to talk about, um, what went well this week, uh, what do we need to work on?
(15:23)
What are your areas of strength? What do you feel still are your areas of weakness? Um, and then, so I had her kind of do a self assessment every week, and then I did, um, kind of gave her my opinions and, um, I'm still seeing a little bit of this, so why don't we focus on this, this week type of things. Um, I think the program I came from, like the hospital program was a lot more structured than what Abby's school really required. So, but that's the only place I've worked. That's all I've ever known. So I think I was probably coming up with a lot more upfront than we really needed. Um, so in, in the end we ended up sort of evolving it together. Um, I did come up with, we came up with some site specific objectives, um, which actually I had Abby help me with because I was like, What are your goals from this?
(16:16)
And then what do I think that we can really accomplish of that? Knowing that clients who were gonna be coming with me to this practice were coming for me, for my reputation that already existed from working in the hospital for years in the area. And, um, and, and are they gonna want a student, You know, if you come to a hospital, you sort of ex a teaching hospital, especially, you expect maybe students will work on you, be there, things like that. But if you come to a private practice, you really expect that. So kind of putting that up front, you know, I said, if, if you don't have, uh, somebody who's willing to let you work on them, or if they want you to, you know, step out, we have to respect that, of course. Um, but in our spare time, you can practice on me.
(17:01)
Um, and I think, you know, once you've been through all the public health courses and things and you've practiced internal treatment on each other, um, that, that's like, your body is like an educational zone, right? Like you're just like, Here work on me. Um, so that was really helpful and honestly, I needed her, um, because I never had any rehab postpartum either, because who's gonna treat me, um, when I'm working full time and I can't get to people, um, and other practitioners. So it was kind of nice to have her kind of working on things for me too. Um, and I think some of what we found was that, uh, like, I don't know, we worked really well together. We were able to communicate really well. Abby was great at taking feedback and like incorporating it the next week. Like I could see it in her face, you know, I could see it in her the way she, you know, had responses.
(17:56)
Um, and I think it went well. So over the 12 weeks we kind of, um, you know, the first few weeks was definitely like some observation, and that's why I was glad she had taken a level one course because I knew I didn't have time with starting a new business to teach her all of that from scratch, you know, Um, just starting with anatomy, like that wasn't gonna, that wasn't gonna be something I had time to do. Um, so having the level one was helpful and also helpful for clients willing to let her work on them, like she's already taken the courses. So, um, so those were great. But, uh, you know, the other important thing for her was like seeing how a business is run. Um, you know, which in a way I'm still learning too. Uh, I've been open about five months now, and, uh, but my thought was, you know, if she's a pelvic health OT and every job posting is for pelvic health PTs, yes, she might have to start her own practice to do the work she wants to do.
(18:58)
So, uh, I thought that was kind of invaluable for her to be able to experience that as well, especially with a, like a brand new fledgling starting business. So, Oh, I love that. And then other downtime we had, um, I made appointments with various practitioners in the area, um, chiropractors, um, you know, different medical facilities, different, uh, we even met other pelvic therapists because, um, you know, I kind of look at all this from an abundance mindset. So, you know, if somebody is not gonna be the ideal patient for me, maybe I can refer them to so and so down the road who does work more with the CrossFit athletes and, you know, and the heavy lifters and those kind of things. So, so I thought all of that kind of like came together a little bit more organically than I initially, I feel like I was trying to keep it really structured.
(19:51)
Um, and then eventually it just became what it was. And she learned a ton and I learned a ton. Um, and as you know, like when you're teaching, you have to say everything you're doing out loud. So I think it just helped me really refresh and hone in on my skills and why are you doing what you're doing type of things, because now you have to tell somebody what, what you're doing, what you're doing. And maybe that was helpful for my clients too, to hear things talked about out loud. Um, so I mean, it's definitely a full-time job, you know, even if we were slow on patients, we, I, we still came together and worked on something, you know, because she had to be doing full-time work. So that was maybe one of the stressors because, you know, certainly there's stressors, but, um, but she's just so lovely. Like, I mean, some days we just like met at my house and worked on like continuing edge that I have backed up logs of virtual continuing edge that I need to finish. So those kind of things. So, um, but yeah, we had a, a great experience.
Lindsey (20:52):
I relate so well to the abundance mindset comment that you made. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what an invaluable experience for Abby to, to really exactly what you said, ha have that experience of <laugh>, of the continuing ads, the ups and downs of running a business. Because you're right, truthfully, many of us as OTs will eventually need to start our own business. That's exactly what happened to me. I never sought out to be an entrepreneur, but in order to continue what I knew was my life's work, which is due a public health ot, that's exactly what I had to do. And I, I don't look back. It was the best accident of my life, but I can totally relate to that. And I also really appreciate Rocky, you're just, you know, vulnerability and straightforwardness with us in expressing really like how much you got out of this experience.
(21:37)
And of course, there were stressors, which, you know, I do, I do wanna talk a little bit more about, but you know, I think that that many times, OTs that are, have a strong desire to take a student, just wonder, are they gonna be able to show up enough? Are they gonna be able, are they gonna feel depleted at the end of the day because there wasn't any downtime? Or they could just stare at a wall? Which, let's be honest, like sometimes that's what we need to do between clients. It's kind of like you're always on, even when you're client leaves the room, your student is still there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right? And what I really heard you say and emphasize was all of the positive things that came out of it for you. And I can, I can feel the, that abundance in you and, and just what, what an enriching experience was for everybody.
(22:19)
So I, I love that. And I, I hope that the OTs joining us and listening to this can, can I identify with that? And maybe our wondering, you know, wondering if this is something they can do, incorporate themselves. So one of the things that you touched on, Rocky, was about, you know, pelvic health clients, maybe not being sure about having a student there or having a student work on them. And that's something that a lot of OTs express concern with me. They're wondering about that and kind of the ins and outs on how that will work. Can you shed some light for us on maybe even the experiences that didn't go so well or how you handled it when a client said, No, I would prefer Abby not to, to treat me or to be in the room? Mm-hmm.
Rakhi (22:59):
<affirmative>. Yeah. I actually, I put it in my intake and the consent, um, that, uh, there may be at times a student present or a physician or another therapist, um, you know, anybody willing to learn. And I kind of put it out there that this is still an emerging field mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and there aren't many practitioners in this area, but that we need them. And that, um, and that being able to do observations in this field and learn from somebody who's already been doing it is so valuable to kind of putting more people in this field. Um, you know, in private practice, people are able to get in a little bit more quickly, but when I worked at the hospital, people waited three months to get in for an evaluation and then another three months to get in for their follow ups. And I had 90 people on my cancellation list that I was trying to like manage all the time.
(23:52)
So, you know, we need more therapists in this field. Um, so that's been, that was part of, you know, my motivation is that like, you know, I don't, I don't think that this is gonna be competitive for me to like teach this student and get her out there. You know, I think everybody needs pelvic floor therapy at some point in their life, so how the heck are we gonna manage that? And honestly, if we're looking at forward at what's the ideal, you know, European countries, every single person who's had a baby is referred to pelvic floor therapy. So if we are ever trying to get to that level, then we need more practitioners in the field. So, um, you know, those are kind of all my thoughts, but, um, but as far as, um, you know, kind of coming in and, and, and introducing people, I actually did like a social media post when Abby arrived, uh, introducing her and that she had already taken a level one course and that this was her final, um, you know, stop before finishing her master's.
(24:56)
And I think that helped people, you know, she's not a new student, she's quite an experienced student at the very end of her, you know, rotations, and this is the last thing she does before she graduates and gets her own job. So, you know, in a few months she might be working in the same job. So, um, I think that helped clients, um, uh, we, you know, introduced her and she kind of, again, was just an observer initially. And it was one of the things that was like, one of our goals was kind of, um, getting her personality out there a little bit, because it is easy to kind of like be in a corner and sit quietly while like things go on. Uh, but you know, once, once she started kind of like sharing a little bit more of herself, people were super, uh, you know, agreeable to letting her work on them, uh, initially it was, uh, you know, I would just be like, Do you mind if I have Abby feel this on your abdomen or something external?
(25:52)
Um, not internal things, uh, right away until I had her work on me many times, Um, just to make sure that, you know, we knew what I knew what, what kind of skills she was working with. And, um, once she had worked on me quite a bit, we, I had her, you know, maybe be like, and I would kind of pick something that was more interesting, like, so, oh, this feels really different on the left than on the right on this internal, uh, exam. Do you mind if I have Abby check this? And a lot of times I would try to say, and I wasn't always perfect about this, but like, next time, if you wouldn't mind, I might have Abby feel that too, just because it's different. And I'd like her to like be able to tell the difference between the side and that side.
(26:38)
Um, and uh, in my ideal world, I gave people like a week to think about it, but if it was something that I was like, I might fix this right now, and, uh, maybe I should have her feel it right now, and I'd kind of ask. And I, I'm hoping I didn't put like too many people in the spot with that. But, um, uh, so I, you know, tried to gauge on that. Um, and then I had several clients who were actually OTs, so either former colleagues or just people I knew from the field or former classmates of mine that came to be patients. And I asked them ahead of time, like, Would you mind if my student was actually your therapist? So, and, and the OTs were always willing. So, uh, those clients, uh, were Abby's clients and one of them was like, lovely and straightforward and, and wonderful and like a good patient that actually like, was fixed and one was like freaking punal neuralgia.
(27:36)
And I'm like, This is so hard. You got such a, like a complex like first, you know, patient. So we had to jump in a lot more on that one. But, um, you know, that's just kind of what you never know. You know, that the, the diagnosis and the history sounds up front, but then you get into it and you're like, Oh no, this is a much more complex than what it originally sounded like. So, so those kind of things were part of the factors. Um, the imposter syndrome we were kind of talking about earlier. Of course, I had that like getting my first pelvic health student, right? Like, you learn in your courses, you take all these courses, and then you start working and, but you're working by yourself. It's not like every anyone's ever checked my work. You know what I mean? Yeah.
(28:20)
Like, once you're out there, you're out there. So I'm like, am I even teaching this correctly or is this just like what I have evolved to start doing? You know, so you always have those, like, I don't, oh, what if I'm like teaching her this totally wrong kind of like moments. Um, but in the end, you know, you're like, Oh, well the patients are getting better, so yeah, something's going right. Um, so, you know, those, those are definitely moments and challenges. So I think it definitely helped that I'd had students prior, but Abby as a student was just such a different, it was a different experience because we were one on one. We didn't have a whole team, you know, when I was in the hospital and there were students, there was a batch of students that usually started at the same time. Um, whereas here it was one person.
(29:07)
So, and she's, um, working on my vagina and she is going to my mammogram with me, and she's going to my ob gyn appointments. Because at this point I'm like, If you are comfortable going, like you came here to learn women's health, come learn women's health, come learn the whole gamut, right? So, uh, I just, she just went along and maybe this is just like my weird personality that was like, come join, right? Like, um, come do this with me. And, uh, again, your my body is an educational playground for you. Like, let's, what do you wanna work on? But she helped, like we've worked, worked in so many other things, like Abby, look, what are some of the other weird things that we did that were just like, not even ot, like you've worked on my shoulder, I've had this frozen shoulder issue, um, thanks to my toddler.
(29:52)
Um, and then she, what we treated like somebody's vertigo on your last day with like Dick's Hall Pike and EPLI maneuvers, which I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have to Google these because like, we have to watch a YouTube video to know how to do this because I haven't done this in like seven years. So those type of things were just like, you know, the the benefit of working a private practice too, because, you know, it's not what the patient was referred for or, you know, initially came for, but hey, this showed up today. We have to work on this. So we, we, she got a lot of other experiences with along those lines.
Lindsey (30:27):
Sounds phenomenal. She's, she's one lucky OT <laugh>
Abby, um, Rocky shared with us a little bit of, of her own, you know, stressors, you know, her, her own sense of imposter syndrome, which I imagine probably kind of shocked you to hear a little bit about. Uh, we'd love to hear some of the stressors that you experienced through your 12 weeks.
Abby (31:21):
Yeah. Um, well, like Rocky said, we were always doing something very different and the field work was so unlike any other field work I'd ever had, or I feel like any student does have. And so it was always just, I think the hardest stressor would've just been making sure that I can adapt to whatever's coming in the door. Because like she said, you never knew whether you were getting kind of more of a straightforward stress incontinence patient or whether you're literally working head to toe on someone. So I would say that just kind of keeping an open mind and being anticipatory of where else on a patient we might start treatment or look for deficits, that kind of funnel into other symptoms was a really big learning curve. And just learning to think on my feet like that. Um, I know there were so many times when Rocky would, would look at me and be like, So what are you thinking for this patient?
(32:30)
And you know, we're all in the room together and I just had this deer in the headlights look because I'm just trying to think in, in the moment, think ahead and kind of pivot as needed. And it was just a lot of, of learning in that sense on how to adapt a session and just kind of be thinking a, a few questions ahead and knowing where to or kind of direct someone or direct care and where to start and how to be, um, uh, good with time management. That was a huge thing for me as well, is just kind of thinking very slow because I'm a new grad and also I'm just a, a slow cough, cough thorough person in general. And so just kind of being, um, aware of time and trying to pick things that were more relevant than others was a big learning curve. Absolutely.
Rakhi (33:29):
And that's hard for anybody learning how to evaluate, you know, in any setting really. Like the time management's always a big thing for any student, so, Wonderful. And Abby actually helped me a lot. Like I, we had a visual timer in here, so when I'm getting too far out of like, where I'm supposed to be, Cause a lot of times when I'm treating the clock is behind me, I always like say I need to get a mirror so I can see the clock on the other side. But, um, uh, Abby would like pull that visual timer out and set it out where I could see it and I'd be like, Okay, I gotta get back on track here, <laugh>. So, uh, because it's very easy to get lost in tissue and like feeling the tissue changes and geeking out about what you're finding. So,
Lindsey (34:11):
So I, you know, follow, follow you on social media, Rocky and mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Looks like the two of you develop some pretty amazing programs for the community. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Rakhi (34:24):
We did, um, well, because in, in most field works, you, the student has like a final project and I was like, what could her final project be? And again, I don't even know if this was like something that was required of her school, cuz again, her school seemed much more relaxed than like the way we did programming at, um, the hospital where I worked. So, um, but we put on a workshop, um, so I rent space in a yoga studio for my clinic. Um, so we put on a workshop in the studio in one of the big yoga rooms, um, one weekend in, we called it head, shoulders, knees, and toes of Pelvic Health, kind of trying to highlight how the whole body really is involved in pelvic health. And um, and it was great. It was well attended and we did it on a Saturday.
(35:13)
And um, and we just had a good turnout and Happy was just like, this was like her last week maybe, I think right before the last week. And she was like sounding like a pro, you know, I loved it. I was like, Oh my gosh, you guys didn't she sound so great <laugh>? So, um, yeah, it was just, it was fun. We did that, that at the end. And, um, and you know, that's part of the social media thing. I don't, you know, necessarily wanna have to be doing talks or being an influencer in any way. That's already people doing that. I just wanna do my job. I just wanna have enough information out there to sort of like teach people and say, Oh, maybe this is something that I don't have to live with. Um, and, and not have to kind of do that all the time. But yeah, doing little workshops and things like that is definitely fun and breaks up, breaks things up a little bit. But Abby, Abby pretty much put that together. So, um, she was going through and we talked about all the different topics. We had way too much information to fill up the time we had. We went, you know, had way, like way too much. We had to cut it down at the end, but it was a fun time.
Lindsey (36:31):
So I'm dying to know. Right. So the 12 weeks of wrapped up, you guys had an incredible journey together, both of you in, in your own ways. And I gotta know Abby, what happened afterwards? Did you get a job? What, what, what was that all about?
Abby (36:47):
Yes, so during the 12 weeks since it was my last rotation, I was applying for some jobs during the rotation, still with Rocky and I,
Rakhi (36:59):
And let's interrupt for just a second and say, we talked about Abby working for me too. Yes. Um, because I love her and it was just with the new practice, not even a quarter, you know, like haven't been through a quarter yet, you know, and I was like, I just don't know, um, if this is, I can be responsible for somebody's livelihood, you know, not even knowing how a year would go in this practice. Um, and Abby needing a full-time position, I was, so I thought about it really hard though, about how I might adapt be to kind of meet some of her interests in the type of patient she saw and those type of things. And in, and in the end I was like, I just don't think I'm ready. So I did want her, so I'm gonna preface her whole search by saying I wanted her, but I don't think I can, I didn't think I could do it yet. So
Abby (37:52):
Yeah, we talked about that for a little bit before I ever started applying for jobs, just so that, that was kind of ruled out because that was also my preference. But when we decided that that wasn't gonna be a feasible thing just because of the timing of the business and all that, um, I just went on Indeed and I was like, You know what? I'm just gonna start applying only for pelvic four therapy jobs and I'm just gonna see what happens. So that's what I did. And I wasn't particular to any area. I'm kind of a bit of a traveler, so I was just kind of applying from things from coast to coast and I was getting a really good response. Like I was very surprised how many calls I was getting for interviews and multiple interviews. And generally at some point in all of those kind of job hiring processes, um, they would want to speak to Rocky obviously, to kind of make sure that they were doing the right thing by taking on a new grad in a specialty area.
(39:02)
And it was just like clockwork after they would talk to Rocky, they would be like, Okay, perfect. Yeah, um, I think we'll go ahead and make you an offer <laugh>. So it was just kind of crazy. I mean, just kind of the way the field work happened to fall into place and the way that I truly believe Rocky has gotten me, every job offer I've gotten since graduating, um, has just been nuts. And a lot of the employers, I got tons of job offers. Um, sometimes it was gonna be, I was gonna be the only OT there doing pelvic health. Um, some companies had familiarity with it. Um, but a lot of openness after they would talk to me and Rocky about, um, kind of our skill and the things we would do and how we treated patients and who we treated. Um, I was just very surprised how much, how much demand there was for, um, pelvic health practitioners. And even if people had initial reservations about the OT versus pt, um, it didn't seem hard to get passed after a couple conversations.
Rakhi (40:15):
And you did, uh, apply to all PT jobs, right? Yeah, nothing was listed for OTs
Abby (40:21):
And none of them were listed for OTs. So it would just be applying for PT jobs if there was a question about do you have your PT license? You know, I just checked the box yes. To kind of get past it to get a call, you know. Um, so yeah, they were all PT jobs. Um, but it all kind of worked out once I got through, as long as I got a phone call that was usually game over.
Lindsey (40:46):
How many job offers did you get?
Abby (40:49):
Oh gosh. I, I'm an over apply. Um, I probably ended up getting seven, maybe seven job walkers. Um, and then I ended up accepting one here back in Cincinnati, Ohio with, um, an outpatient branch of a hospital system. Okay,
Lindsey (41:11):
Okay.
Rakhi(41:12):
Because you wanted to be by me forever.
Abby (41:14):
Yes, I can. I can't leave. That's
Rakhi (41:17):
Gonna happen. I mean, you came to my house for Father's Day and Mother's Day, which is things I never would've invited students from the hospital world, but Abby was like here by herself, away from her family. I was like, Okay, well no pressure. I always had no pressure. Cause I, I didn't wanna like make her feel like she had to do something to get her grades. Like, you don't have to come to my mammogram and my ob gyn appointment. Abby, this is not part of your grade. This is just if you want to, you don't have to come to my home for Mother's Day, but you can if you want to. <laugh>.
Abby (41:49):
Oh yeah. I wanted to there did Rocky, as you can tell, Lindsay has just been so gracious to me this whole time and I was rereading my journal recently, um, and it was from months ago and I had written a note for January that said, I think I just had a phone conversation that's gonna change my life. And it was with, it was when I first had a phone conversation with Rocky and that could not have been more true. Just the whole experience of the summer field work, which was incredible. Um, just her kindness to me as a person, the jobs I had afterwards. I just like, I owe her everything. It was just the most incredible experience of my life.
Lindsey (42:39):
If that's not a reason why, if you're on the fence OTs with you, if you should take a student, just remember that it was a phone call that changed Abby's life that we may have that ripple effect when we take on a student. That's so incredible. Oh, ladies, this has been amazing. Rocky, I would love to hear a little bit from you about like your thoughts on the importance of our profession kind of stepping up for OT students, whether it's through field work or guest lectures or mentoring, talking a little bit about this.
Rakhi (43:13):
Absolutely. Um, I, I do guest lecture every year at Xavier University. Now that I'm not an adjunct member of the faculty, but I guest lecture about pelvic health. I get about two or three hours. Actually Abby came to my lecture this year, um, and she had just come to Cincinnati. It was actually the week before her field work. And again, it was like, no pressure, but I'm, if you're actually in town already, I am gonna be teaching a guest lecture at Savior if you wanna come join. Which was nice cuz then she met some of the xavi grad students and, um, you know, had had some people her own age to like know right away. Um, and I think actually one of their grad students is gonna be my student level two student for next year. Um, so that's already scheduled for next spring. Um, so that has been, uh, awesome.
(44:05)
I don't, I just love, I love teaching. So I think that that's part of it. But I think, um, I just love spreading the good word about pelvic health too, you know, and how differently OTs can treat in this field and how effective it can be. Um, and then it's just heartbreaking. You know, I, I kind of lucked into being able to start treating in this field because our hospital didn't have a big program at the time. They had like one therapist doing pelvic health, the pt, doing health, PE health very part-time and, you know, without much of a desire to make it more full-time because she had other interests. Um, so when I kind of brought up an interest, um, my director who was brand new at the time, and an OT was like, Oh, that's wonderful. I had to pull teeth to get people to get trained in this at the hospital I used to work at.
(44:55)
And I was like, Oh my gosh, no, I will do this full time. I will build your program. I was like, this is, this is huge. This could be really big for this hospital. That program came up faster than any program that the hospital has had. Um, and we ended up with more therapists and so on. And it's, you know, a regular referral now from a lot of different fields. So, um, you know, when it, when things grow that fast, and I think Lindsay, you and I talked about this, but like, just like what the change has been in OTs and pelvic health over the last five years. Um, you know, I remember years ago joining well, and, and the whole reason I even knew that pelvic health was a special to you was reading an OT practice article about you and your practice. And, uh, but back then, you know, you would, we would go to like the PT Facebook pages to kind of ask clinical questions, I felt.
(45:52)
And, uh, lately I just don't think we have to. I think there's so many skilled providers in this area, in our field, in our profession, um, that it's just like grown like crazy. And, but how do we get these students, these students are knowing about it again, like Abby, like she already knew going into grad school that this is what she wants to do. The student I'm getting next year, same thing, went into grad school knowing she was interested in public health. So how do we get them into the world, right? Like, uh, you know, people always have reservations about students starting in a specialty, but you know, you can learn the other things. Like, you know, I learned a lot of the manual techniques over the years. I, you know, part of it is because I have had so much PT in my life, but, uh, you know, those are all things that could be learned.
(46:45)
But like that OT mindset mm-hmm. <affirmative> in this field, um, you know that. Okay, so let me just go back and talk about the two p the two OTs that Abby had as patients and when she did her interviews, her social and her histories and everything for their evaluations, those interviews were like some of the best that we have I've ever had in my field. You know, and this in the specialty, like one left and messaged me later. Again, I knew them both ahead of time, um, saying that the evaluation brought up so many things that she felt like she healed more from just the evaluation than she healed in six years of mental health therapy. Hmm. Right. And that was Abby, Abby, a student doing that interview and like letting her talk and letting her feel heard. And a very similar comment from the other one.
(47:39)
She's like, I didn't realize how much I needed to get my story out and be heard and your student did such a great job of letting me talk. And, and, and I think that's just like the things that we need to think about and do differently in what I have time to do and, and PE in private practice. Like cuz I, I, I block out a huge amount of time for evaluations and I still go over if I don't have anybody else scheduled right after. So, um, because people just need to be heard and it's so impactful. Like, you know, my clients here, my, um, at the hospital, I, you know, would have to, you know, guess initially for insurance how many visits I thought they would need. And usually it, depending on like severity, some people would need, I would guess six, some people eight, some people 12.
(48:29)
And then there are some people who became like lifers, right? Like, you're gonna be here for the long haul. But, uh, but here in this practice, um, I don't know if it's the excessive time. I think maybe not being in the hospital setting is a huge thing, but people are averaging 4.6 visits. Hmm. And getting people better faster. I can get them in more regularly. You know, like giving them the time, letting them be heard, talking about the mental health upfront, addressing it every day. Um, I think those are huge things that like, you know, OT can bring to the field. So how do we get more OTs into the field? Yeah. Um, and the huge reason so many of these people gave Abby an interview was because she'd had a clinical, not just because she took her one or just because she had an interest, but they were like, Oh, but then I saw that she had had a clinical in this and I had to figure out, I had to follow up.
(49:27)
You know, cuz I think they would've maybe, uh, you know, not even looked at her resume just like, oh, ot. And she had to really fight <laugh> on one of one of these to like, kind of like, oh my gosh, OT advocate like number one over here for one of these PT clinics on the west coast. But, um, who ended up like loving her more than anybody else, <laugh> really in the end, like once she got one over and realized that she could, you know, maybe leverage having OT and PT if you run out of visits with one try the other, or like if, you know, this person is more of like, uh, anxiety, depression, person causing some of these issues, maybe OTs a better way to go kind of things. So, but it did, it took work for me too, um, to um, to be able to have time to speak with the, the practitioners and, and people that were interviewing her.
(50:20)
And because she couldn't travel all over the country, cuz most people were like, Well, I want her to come out and work on me. So I, I can tell what her hands are like. And I'm like, well, she's not gonna be able to do that. She's a student, they don't have money. Um, <laugh>, you know, and she doesn't have time to go to every corner of the country that she applied here. And so I would speak to them and say, this is what we worked on, here's some of her strengths. And always reminding them that she's still a new grad, right? Because she's not going to be able, like, yes, she's trained in a specialty, but like, don't just throw her out there. She's still gonna need mentoring. She's still gonna need guidance and I'm happy to do that from wherever I am, but she's still gonna need you guys.
(51:00)
And then on the other hand, talking to Abby about like, when she gets out there, I'm like, you know, people may do things differently than what I've taught you. So be open to that because there's more than one way to be a pelvic health therapist. There are. And, and that's the beauty of it, I think. Like if you go to somebody and they're not a good fit and they're not helping you reach your goals, try somebody else. Because, you know, me coming from a background of rehab, inpatient rehab, um, where I was certainly more of a manual therapist and a biomechanical therapist in some ways, um, than some of my colleagues who would like do kitchen and like, you know, art and things like that. But I was always like, what's the root of this movement issue? Um, and, and that's, you know, some of how I looked at things and, uh, so my background like that and then my background, like in acute care and teaching kinesiology and like tools and techniques for the OT process at Xavier, those type of things made me the way I also, you know, went to medical school for two years.
(52:09)
So that was wild too. Like what, what impact did that have? So all those plus my o like my pelvic floor training is like what made me the way I am. So, uh, everyone is coming from a totally different background, especially with so many people getting into this specialty later in life, right? Like, so they've had how many different types of OT jobs before that? So, you know, and then just kind of like having her make sure she's gonna be open to like learning new ways. So maybe I taught you how to do pelvic alignment type adjustments and muscle energy techniques in this way. And if you go to a PT clinic, they want you to like really learn specific terminology as far as innominate and, um, you know, UPS slips and whatever else words PTU use. And that's like, not how I do it.
(52:59)
You know what I mean? So those are, those are things that I think just, you know, the imposter syndrome is real. Everybody feels like they're not experienced enough to, to teach somebody in this field. But I mean, think about how many people you help. Like you're certainly experienced enough to teach some, like have somebody in this field and, and, and teach a student, you know, um, because even like level one courses is so eye-opening, you know, as far as teaching people and then just the experiences that you bring to the table is just interesting. Yeah. So there's always that like, confidence thing about like, Oh, should I take a student? Oh, I don't know if I know enough. But in the end, like, they're just sponges, you know? So,
(53:45)
So yeah, I just, I I hope more people do take students because, uh, well they're all hitting me up now that they know <laugh> that I've done this. So, and I, I'm hoping to just kind of keep it at like, maybe one per year. I thought I would like, like everybody else thinks that they will start with a doctoral student doing a project of some sort and just kind of be a guide for that. Um, a level two student is definitely more work, you know, like, there's definitely daily full-time interaction, but it's so rewarding. I loved having Abby, Abby has moved back to town and like offered to babysit my child tonight so I could like go out. It's actually my birthday and, um, so could I go out with my husband tonight? And I'm like, Oh, I don't know. We're, you know, maybe not tonight, but thank you. You're so sweet.
Lindsey
Happy Birthday. Thank you. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I just hope so much other people will start just kind of being open to this and at least, you know, offer to give a guest lecture at your local OT program. Like, that's huge too. That just like puts it out there that this is a field you can learn in. That's, that's huge.
I, I think that that, I mean there's so much gems in what you brought up. I can just replay those last few minutes over and over again. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I know that there's gonna be people saying to this podcast that will, because there's just so much rich knowledge in there that you shared with us, Rocky. And the things that really stand out to me the most were that there's more than one way to be a pelvic health therapist And that's not only something that we need to remember, but I think that's something we need to remind our hiring managers and potentially even referring parties and clients about. And I think that goes hand in hand with that abundance mindset. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because like you said, and I did the exact same thing in New York City and even in Paris, if, you know, there was a client that I knew could benefit better from someone who specializes in CrossFit or who has that real biomechanical approach, and that's what that client needs.
(55:39)
Being able to give that client, the just right fit for them was always going to be a win. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And that's also educating the other therapist on the type of therapist I was, which meant they were gonna kind of get to know me a little bit better and then send me the clients that I jived with really well. So I love that. And I also really loved that you brought up the importance of leaning into the OT mindset. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the fact Abby innately had that skill of knowing how to listen and help the client be heard in that way. That that client said it healed me more than six years of therapy could have ever tells me that innately as OTs, we have that therapeutic use of self, we have that ability to practice active listening, and that alone is so rich, that is something that other fields do not prepare their therapists for. And that combined with all the skills that, that she learned from your support and other avenues that I'm sure she pursued, really culminated into the fact that she got seven job offers, which is just amazing.
Rakhi (56:51):
Oh yeah.
Lindsey (56:52):
Oh my goodness. Ladies, I'm, I'm just so thrilled to have this time with you. Is there anything else that either one of you wanna say before we conclude our episode today?
Abby (57:03):
I think I've got it all out
<laugh>. Yeah, I think so. It was just the best is Rocky was the best teacher. The clients were the best to have me in the room and be so willing to have me work on them.
Rakhi (57:19):
Um, and then I should mention that I also treat males here. So that was, um, she's just now taken like her level two, um, course to do the rectal type treatment, but she's, um, already been super experienced with working with males externally. So that was another thing that we did work on, even though that's not like totally her area. But, um, yeah. But yeah, like, I mean, I think the other helpful thing was that the practice was busy right away, like almost too busy initially because I had so many people that came with me from the hospital, um, and stayed with me. And, and it just, I, Abby was also great about like, helping with my confidence because every week I'd be like, Oh my gosh, I don't know if this is gonna this, Ooh, I don't know if we have enough clients this week.
(58:07)
And she'd just be like, Oh, you have like five evals scheduled. And I'm like, Oh, maybe I'm fine. And she'd just be like, constantly like boosting me up and being like, I think you're still good. I think you're still good. Like, I know it's hard to see, um, you know, because you don't know what the trends are gonna be. But yeah, it was a, it was, it was almost too busy because I didn't have as much time the first couple weeks to spend with her just treating. So, and that first month was everyone was an evaluation. So, um, it was a little bit more full time than I intended, um, initially, but it was wonderful. I mean, it was obviously a good problem to have and, and yeah, it's just been, uh, a wild ride for the past five months. So.
Lindsey (58:52):
Well, you both are so inspirational. I'm gonna, I can't wait to follow both of your journeys. Who knows. Abby, you may end up back at Rocky's practice after all <laugh>. Yes. Keep growing. Which it I know it will. It, I know it'll keep growing the way that it has been. So ladies, thank you so much for your time and sharing your incredible story with us all. I know it's going inspire so much both OTs and OT students alike, so thank you so much.
Rakhi (59:17):
Thank you for having us. Thank you, Lindsay.
Abby (59:19):
Thanks Lindsey
Lindsey (59:20):
Listening to another episode of OTs and Pelvic Health. If you haven't already, hop onto Facebook and join my group OTs for Pelvic Health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and post it to ig, Facebook, wherever you post your stuff. And be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you wanna hear more of. Thanks again for listening to the OTs and PE Health podcast.