OTs In Pelvic Health
Welcome to the OTs In Pelvic Health Podcast! This show is for occupational therapists who want to become, thrive and excel as pelvic health OTs. Learn from Lindsey Vestal, a Pelvic Health OT for over 10 years and founder the first NYC pelvic health OT practice - The Functional Pelvis. Inside each episode, Lindsey shares what it takes to succeed as a pelvic health OT. From lessons learned, to overcoming imposter syndrome, to continuing education, to treatment ideas, to different populations, to getting your first job, to opening your own practice, Lindsey brings you into the exciting world of OTs in Pelvic Health and the secrets to becoming one.
OTs In Pelvic Health
"You're My Last Hope" with Tracy Sher
Show Notes
How to Get in Touch with Tracy Sher + her resources:
- IG: pelvicguru1
- Twitter: pelvicguru1
- Facebook: Pelvic Guru Academy FB Group
- GPHAM membership info
- Course Academy: www.pelvicglobalacademy.com
- Tracy'sPudendal Neuralgia course
- OTs in Pelvic Health Summit that Tracy spoke at in 2022.
- OTs in Pelvic Health Summit will be live in 2023.
- Lindsey's OTs in Pelvic Health Facebook group
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Pelvic OTPs United - Lindsey's off-line interactive community for $39 a month!
Inside Pelvic OTPs United you'll find:
- Weekly group mentoring calls with Lindsey. She's doing this exclusively inside this community. These aren't your boring old Zoom calls where she is a talking head. We interact, we coach, we learn from each other.
- Highly curated forums. The worst is when you post a question on FB just to have it drowned out with 10 other questions that follow it. So, she's got dedicated forums on different populations, different diagnosis, different topics (including business). Hop it, post your specific question, and get the expert advice you need.
More info here. Lindsey would love support you in this quiet corner off social media!
Lindsey Vestal I had the distinct pleasure of interviewing Tracy Sher for today's OT and Pelvic health podcast. My main takeaway from today's talk is all about hope, hope and optimism. Not only the hope that we can give our clients when they're struggling, but the hope we can part on ourselves and each of our colleagues who are practicing in Pelvic health. Tracy Share is the founder and CEO of the global Platform Pelvic health, and she's also the owner and clinical director of the Private Practice Share Pelvic health and Healing in Orlando, Florida. I had the pleasure of meeting Tracy back in 2012 when I was starting my career, and it always resonated with me just how much she supported teachers who are in Pelvic health. She's also a pelvic PTA sex counselor and a strength and conditioning specialist. And what really stands out to me is that Tracy has a passion for treating complex pelvic health cases related to pelvic pain, sexual pain and postpartum changes. She thrives on being a connector to bring people together and improve the way we all learn and help each other. Super fun fact about Tracy is that pelvic guru actually started in 2012 when I met her as a hobby site. She had a passion and desire to improve access to information and resources about pelvic health because we all know it's just not talked about enough. And the response to what was started off as a very small blog website and social media account was so overwhelmingly positive that it grew to this organic, mission driven seven figure business that includes a full spectrum of services for pelvic health professionals and global community. Tracy is obsessed with playing pickleball, traveling internationally and throughout the United States and often gets roasted by her teenage son playing pickleball. All right. Let's get into today's interview.
Intro New and seasoned OTs are finding their calling in Pelvic health. After all, what's more adult than sex, peeing and poop? But here's the question What does it take to become a successful, fulfilled and thriving OT in Pelvic health? How do you go from beginner to seasons and everything in between? Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers. We are inspired, OTs. We are out of the box. OTs We are Pelvic health. OTs I'm your host, Lindsey Vestal and welcome to the OTs and Pelvic health Podcast.
Lindsey Vestal Tracy, thank you so incredibly much for being a guest on the OTs and Pelvic health podcast. You have truly been a wealth of cutting edge resources for both the public and pelvic health professionals alike. You have revolutionized how parties, both parties, see Pelvic health, and you've really empowered us all by having conversations around these topics and having them accessibly. Today we're going to focus on the professionals. And of course, when I think about professionals and Pelvic health pelvic guru immediately comes to mind. So I want to start with a question from there, partly because I met you back in 2012 when I was starting my pelvic health career. I took TAF one from you, and I believe that was the same year that you had kicked off Pelvic Guru.
Tracy Sher Yes. Thank you for this nice introduction to. I appreciate that. Yes. So 2012 was I think it was it's actually interesting that around that time, Pelvic Guru was more of a blog and it was just a fun place for me to share information about Pelvic health. And I started a Facebook page and didn't think that much about it was just like, this will be fun. And it really exploded in a few years. And so it was just amazing to see that there was so much interest in this. And I just decided, okay, I'm just going to keep doing some blog articles and I'll do some more Facebook posts on research and get more people involved. But I had no idea that it would ultimately end up being a business. So that was never the intention. It was just a fun outlet for me to be able to share more information. And then it started going global and I was like, Wow, this is fascinating that it went to that level. So around that time that was just starting around 2012, and then by 2018 we finally turned it into a business. But that was never the intention. So it's kind of fun to see it all grew organically.
Lindsey Vestal Yeah, and I have to say that, you know, me supporting Oatly's as kind of grown in the same way. I had a private practice in New York City and just heard from more and more its reaching out. And then my business since just this past year has completely turned to focusing on OTs and helping them grow into becoming the Pelvic health practitioner. So that's I can relate so much to what you said, you know, and as you said, like so much has changed since 2012. It's grown to be this like truly thriving pelvic health community that, as you said, is, is making a global impact. And would you mind sharing a story that that really stands out in your mind that illustrates the impact that it has had on our community?
Tracy Sher Yeah, I'll actually I'm going to back it up, though, and actually talk about how I think this is a good story just to share in terms of when you start something and it's something new and you might get a lot of pushback on it or things. And if you really believe in it and you have a passion for it, I know some of these things sound cliche sometimes, but for example, when I first started Pelvic Guru, it's now a pelvic Guru LLC, and we actually have a global brand now. It's called Pelvic Global. And so when I started Pelvic Guru and started putting graphics out there that said Pelvic Guru, and I was super excited about this, I won't ever forget I had someone contact me who was really a big kind of like a mentor in the field and I thought would really be supportive. And I say this just to share that even sometimes when you think you're doing the best thing you can do, you might get a lot of pushback. And the person said something to the effect of, When I hear the word the term pelvic guru, it makes me want to throw up. And essentially she said, I cannot support you. I won't ever support you with that name. And I was like, you know, wait a second. This is just something that was fun for me to do. I came up with a name in five minutes. I wasn't really thinking that there would be so much of a push back and you wouldn't support me simply for that name. And then people would say, Well, are you calling yourself a guru? Like, I can support you if it's a name, but not you. And, you know, there were a lot of strange things. But the same week and this is why I bring it up the same week that I started seeing some pushback where I couldn't believe that this was happening in our community. A patient contacted me and emailed me and said, The blog article you did on Pelvic Guru actually saved my life. And she said I had planned on committing suicide. And she said, Your words and your hope and what you shared and what you what you shared about what you can do for pelvic pain and put an on around you. And all these things I was dealing with gives me hope. And you also reached out to me when I emailed that blog and you reached out and gave me some resources and some people to see. And this has completely changed my life. And so I realized in this way, this this is a person calling from contacting me from the UK and the fact that it reached the UK and the fact that she was able to get help from this pelvic guru, it really made me excited to know that we were making an impact and I was doing something that was going to help people regardless of what others were saying and the pushback I had. And so since that time, we've grown it to where we have a team now and we're helping so many professionals. So the way that we could help more people around the world is by empowering professionals. So that was one of the big things we did by starting the academy, by having a membership where they had access to all sorts of resources, handouts and all sorts of webinars and things. We knew that we could grow this and really help a lot more people around the world. And still to this day, we hear how many people were helped and how many people feel like they could trust the people that we were training, because what we did was we were reaching many more people than I could just do by being one person in one location. In Orlando, there were so many more people.
Lindsey Vestal What an incredible story. Tracy, thank you for sharing that. What it really makes me think about, especially for those of us out there perhaps struggling to get a job or to seek recognition. I think in many cases Otts can feel like underdogs in the Pelvic health field. And what your story illustrates to me is, on one hand, you might get some pushback or some questions about the choices you're making career, career, your how your career is forging forward, and on the other hand, recognizing the difference that you're making from that one person who you literally your information literally saved her life goes to show you that the decisions we make are so complex and maybe to follow that inner guide, that intuition that often is that thing that probably sparked the decision or that path choice to begin with, and maybe to cut out some of that noise that might be a little bit less than helpful. So.
Tracy Sher Yeah. And I do think it relates directly to so many voters that I talked to about this, where they say, I've still not always accepted or I feel like I have to explain myself. And it's like so many the votes I meet and that I've seen that are doing pelvic health are so passionate and really want to make a difference. And I will tell you that will always overshadow anything else. So I highly, highly recommend don't listen to anyone. They just sometimes they're just they don't know. You'll hear someone say, I didn't even know OTs can do that. That's just because of ignorance. It's not because they won't support you ultimately or won't think that you're an amazing clinician or whatever you do in the professional realm. So don't even worry about that stuff. Like you said, the noise, that's a good way of putting it because really, if you're passionate about this, there's so many opportunities and you'll do really well of that.
Lindsey Vestal I would love to hear a little bit about, you know, you've got some incredible courses out there and pelvic pelvic pain in particular is one of those things where I think, you know, to be in the Pelvic health profession, we all have to be lifelong learners. And I think nothing could be more true than when it comes to pelvic pain. What do you wish more pelvic health practitioners OTs and Pettis alike, knew about pelvic pain.
Tracy Sher Yeah, that's a great topic too, because a lot of people get intimidated by pelvic pain sometimes and they'll say, Well, I just wanted to get into it so I could work with postpartum population and help those. But inevitably, once you start working in pelvic pain. Sorry, pelvic health. You will inevitably come you'll come into contact with patients who also have pelvic pain. Or you might end up having people that you're the only person they can see for pelvic pain. So I think it's super important to know about it. The biggest things I would say about pelvic pain is that there's so much hope for patients. Patients can get better, but they often read online that, you know, it's it's really going to be tough to get better. They see so many hopeless things online. So I like to always start out telling my patients, you can get better. And so I think the biggest thing is if you're struggling to help a patient, you're just not getting them. They just don't feel like they're getting better. Know that there's still hope. The question is, do we need to collaborate with someone else? Do you need to ask more questions to other colleagues online to get help? Is there something else you can evaluate on the patient? Because there is so much help and hope for them. And I think that people get discouraged and say, well, I'm just not good with pelvic pain or I just don't know what to do. But there's so many resources now and ways to get help. So I think that's important to remember that. And I always think like, if I could go back. So I started doing this 23 years ago. I wish I could take someone with patients then because of now the knowledge I have now. Right. And apply that to 23 years ago. I could have helped so many more people. So we're constantly learning. And pelvic pain is really complex, but there's a lot of hope with it. And then the other thing I would say about pelvic pain is it's so important to continue to learn differentials. And that's a lot of what my course is that I have I have a course on pelvic pain and put down on around you. And one of the things I talk about a lot is the more differentials you have, the more you're able to even understand what could be going on. If you only think that the two things are vulvodynia or just pruning. For example, you might be missing so many other things that are dermatologic or that have some kind of neural aspect to them. So it's so important to continue to learn differentials so that you can decide, is this something that I can treat or do I need to get another person to collaborate with me or do I need to refer this out immediately? They need they might need something immediate and, you know, in terms of surgery or something else. So it is really important to understand differentials. And thinking also, this is the other thing I wish I could teach everyone, so I'm glad I'm having the suffer tunity, which is also there's so much more than the pelvic floor. So one of the things I do is I see patients who have already seen 5 to 10 therapists, maybe 15 physicians, and they'll say, You're my last hope. I've already seen all these other people and now I'm traveling to see you. And when I asked them what kinds of treatments they've had done, they'll say, well, pelvic pain or I would just do some sort of pelvic floor work. They would just stretch my pelvic floor. And I think the more that you can know, there's so many other differentials to consider. Is it at the cervix? Is that the anterior vaginal wall? Is it something going on with their hip or their spine? So the more that you can create understandings of differentials, it's going to help you so much more than just doing pelvic floor therapy. We do really need to know what.
Lindsey Vestal You're reminding me and re sparking the invigoration. I felt after you spoke at the OTS and Pelvic health Summit in 2022 that I hosted it just a few months ago. I think this is the exact path we went down. So treat. Tell me, tell me the name of the course that you, that pelvic guru offers that does go into this differential conversation.
Tracy Sher Sure it's Padano neuralgia and complex pelvic pain solutions. And we actually have a full course academy at Pelvic is either Pelvic Guru Academy or Pelvic Global Academy. Both of those will lead you there. And at Pelvic Guru Academy, we essentially have all sorts of online courses. And then sometimes we offer live courses. This particular course is online now fully. It's 27 hours, lots of stuff on there. And it has and OTC use. And that particular course, I'm going to be doing some live courses again with it as well. So kind of like a hybrid. You take it online. And then I want to do some live labs as well around the country or maybe in the world, too, just so we can get more information out there about it. So I'm really passionate about that topic. I've been teaching that course.
Lindsey Vestal I'm definitely going to link to all of that in the show notes. And I want to ask you a little bit more about who Daniel or Alger. So thank you for bringing that up. Before I do that, I just want to make a quick nod to something you said that really resonated with me, which was when you got started 23 years ago. You know, you look back and you think there are so many things I could have done better, I could have done differently with the knowledge I have now. But the only way you were able to get there and the only way you were able to get to this place where you're empowering so many other practitioners is that you took that first step to begin with. And that first year, maybe more, maybe less. We are learning so rapidly. But I just want to really emphasize, because I speak with a lot of a lot of my pioneer students who, you know, want to do right by their client, wish they had all the information before they started seeing clients. But I truly believe the way we learn the best is by being with our clients and by treating them and of course, reaching out to to memberships and mentorships like the programs that that you offer and that I offer. But if we don't get started, we'll never have that opportunity to say, look at all that I've learned in the last 23 years and look at all of the people that I've helped.
Tracy Sher Yes. And on that note, the patients this is an interesting thing. I've noticed a trend. There are lots of important things said. When a patient says you can eat, you can get a sense when they say, that person that I saw that pelvic health professional, they really, really helped me a lot. They couldn't figure out what was going on, but they listened to me. They were willing to check as many things as they knew. They understood when they had their limits. And then I felt really good that they finally contacted you or they finally reached out and tried to get help to make sure I was supported. So even when you don't know, patients still feel so supported. When you're kind to them, you listen to them and you provide as much evaluations and information as you can and then also offer them other support so you're not failing them.
Lindsey Vestal You're exactly right. And just being that transparent even in the middle of a session saying, you know, I don't know the answer to that, but I'm going to find out. And actually following up and doing that, build that trust builds that rapport, makes that them, you know, value when you do share education, that you're solid in it, that you're confident in it. And then, yes, taking that pressure off yourself, too, thinking that you have to be the end all, be all for every client. But really leaning into that robust referral network and community of amazing practitioners is really, I think, ultimately what does does serve our clients the best.
Tracy Sher Yes. And then on the flip side of that, when I see some people say, well, I've been going to the same therapist for four years and we do the same exact thing every time I go in once a week and I'm starting to think that this is hopeless because they keep doing the same exact thing and I'm never getting better. And then that's when I want to say, Wait, you know, there's there's so much hope still. Maybe that practitioner just needs to connect with someone else or we need to find someone else that can help. Instead of thinking again, you have to do it all on your own. There are definitely ways to reach out or to get help.
Lindsey Vestal Tracy All right. Let's talk now a little bit more about potential neuralgia and I guess some of the common myths that are out there, both from the client's perspective and even from the practitioner's perspective. You. Yeah.
Tracy Sher This is such an important topic because I think two down on a row. Yeah. And prudential nerve entrapment. Those terms are so scary for some people to deal with and others just don't know. There are so many myths, like you said, there are so many things you don't know about potential Raja that it becomes tricky to treat it. And I tell my patients and they laugh because they know exactly what I'm talking about. And I call it the Prudential Tour because they'll say, well, I went to Hollis Potter and I got an MRI in New York, and then I went to Dr. Hebner in Arizona, and then I flew to Canada to try the shockwave treatment with Dr. Andrews. And you realize that they're so desperate for help for a kid down on a row just so they go online. And we call it basically the poodle tour because they're going all over and they end up sometimes on the list of the prudential tours where they make it down to Orlando and I can help them. So I wish I could share so many than this. That would probably stop people from feeling like they have to travel all over or for practitioners to feel like they can be more empowered. So here's some myths. And by the way, it probably ten years ago or nine years ago, I wrote a blog article on the myths of Put Down on Bruja. And I had patients come in from I had one patient come in from Japan because they were like, Wow, no one's ever shared this with me before, and I feel like I finally can get help. And then another patient spent two years saving up money to come down to Orlando because he said he and he carried the article in his pocket. He said he carried it with him every day, hoping to one day finally get help. So these patients are really desperate to get the right help. So the more that we can understand about Cardinal Roger, you'll be able to help so many other patients. So one of the myths is that kids don't around you and prudential nerve entrapment are the same thing. They are not the same thing at all. Most patients, even if they have kids on a Rajah, it's going it's basically an irritation along the distribution of the nerve somewhere. Okay. And there's lots of different areas where the nerve can show up. And I'm happy to talk about that. But prudential nerve entrapment is very, very, very rare. So when someone says, I know I have dental nerve entrapment, I question that in a kind way. And we figure out what they really might have going on because most people do not have dental nerve entrapment. Now, when you see a dental nerve entrapment, one of the biggest red flags is when someone has a hysterectomy or another kind of mesh surgery and they wake up from surgery and they immediately have the worst pain ever in the distribution of the dental nerve. That's a big red flag that they have some form of entrapment, either surgical or mesh. So those are the kinds of things we can say that is a true entrapment and that's something that needs to be dealt with immediately or within the first three months. That's not something you want to do therapy with for years. So there are things that can be entrapment, but they're much more rare than actually people having an irritation around the area of the pre dental nerve. So that's important.
Tracy Sher Another one is that Caden on a Ruga is simply a label, so it doesn't really tell us, and I use this in my course a lot, doesn't tell us a lot. So for example, if someone says, I have the den on Rodger, I'm like, okay. I think of it like there's someone walked in and said, I have a headache. I know that they have an ache in their head area, but now I got to figure out why. You know, do they have them? There's so many different differentials. Right, for that or chest pain that if someone has chest pain, are they having a cardiac issue? Are they having maybe a rib issue? There's lots of things we want to know. So when someone has pedantic like pain in the distribution and by the way, the prudential nerve innervates starts from two, three, four and there's three branches. So you have the dorsal which goes the clitoris and the penis. You have the perineum or perineal branch that goes in that perineum area and then you have a third branch. And for your erectile, there's multiple places where someone could have symptoms and it's very medial. So it's along right where the genital area, once it goes out, add doctors you're not accidental anymore. So what you'll find is someone will say, I know epidemiology. I finally figured out what it is, but that now we have to figure out why do they have this? Is there actually an underlying condition going on? I've had patients that actually had tumors or other things that we need to catch. Sometimes it's a hernia issue that's showing up that way. Sometimes it actually is just irritation of the nerves and tight pelvic floor. And so we can work on that. So just knowing put down on a root, it's simply a label is super helpful that we still need to dig deeper and figure out what's going on. So that's helpful to know. Let's see what else. And so with that, there's not really a cookie cutter approach. So when someone says, Well, I treat dental all the time and this is what I do for all my patients, I question that because. As I think there's multiple things you can do. There might be some things that you do for Prudence. Roger, But there's also a lot of really looking at that individual and making the best help, best choices and help for them for their individual case. Another thing too, is that this is the other thing that I wish I could impart as much as possible is that someone will say, I went to to a place and had a prudential block or I'm thinking about having a surgery. That all that means is that that person who does a prudential block, whether that's a gynecologist or any other kind of specialist anesthesiology type of specialist interventional radiologist, what's happening is they're willing to do a service to help you, but it's not necessarily diagnostic. Even if you're numb for a little bit, we're still a lot more. We need to figure out what's going on. So a lot of people will say, I'll just send them somewhere and they can just have a block or maybe just have surgery for Prudential. But it's not so simple. We wouldn't do that with any other thing. We would just send them off to do blocks all the time. We really want to make sure we're doing our part to evaluate. It's not as simple as that. Just sending them somewhere else and then to dental decompression surgery is not. And some things like cryoablation are not. You wouldn't say like, okay, nothing else has worked. So now I'm going to send you for surgery. It's not like a last resort type of thing. Sometimes surgery is never the answer. And a lot of people say, well, if all this therapy doesn't work, then I'm going to have surgery. But that's not always the best solution either. So we really want to evaluate are they still a surgical candidate? So the more you understand about this, the more you can help that patient decide that even makes sense. So, yeah, And then the other thing, too, is there's a lot of myths that poo down around your dental nerve. Entrapment will never get better. And as I said before, I think there's a lot of negative stuff online and there's just so much more hope. And I've seen so many patients get better and don't necessarily report that online, but they there's a lot of hope for these patients.
Lindsey Vestal That is such that is such a powerful message for us to remember and for us to impart into our clients. I love that. So, Tracy, I have a really prolific Facebook group called Ortiz for Pelvic health. We have close to 5000 members on there now. And I mentioned and reached out to to their community when they knew I was going to be interviewing you for today's podcast. And I do have two questions that were submitted that I thought I'd love to ask you. Sure. One of them is, is there a way that you can get a more definitive answer as to whether or not it is or is not a potential nerve issue when you may suspect that it is so they haven't come to us with a diagnosis. We may be their first their first contact. What would we do then?
Tracy Sher Yes. So this is where the more information, you know, and the anatomy, you know, will help you tremendously. So, for example, if you know the distribution of the dental nerve and you know exactly where you can potentially touch your product, it, for example, around the issue of spine. So internally around the issue, your spine is one of the areas that can light up. That's why I always say it's not a trigger point. It's actually an area to figure out that P dental nerve is really sensitive there. Everyone's a little bit sensitive, but that might be like that's my symptoms, the perennial area. So around that Bobo cover gnosis on the external area is another place where you can potentially irritated they'll say that's my symptoms and there's differentials for that as well to figure out is it really vulvodynia versus Prudential? But we can't get into that. Now there's areas around the issue to Barossa or L, Cox Canal externally and internally that you can palpate and even on the international law where the dorsal aspect of the nerve is. So there are multiple areas that if you really know the anatomy, which you know at this point I really do, I can definitively look at that area, touch that area, palpate that area and say, does this light up any of your symptoms? And if it does, then I can say, okay, it does seem like you might have a dental nerve irritation. I don't necessarily say, you put them all around and now we know exactly what to do. I just know there's an irritation there. But if you're palpating and they're showing you, hey, around my abductors is really bothering me or glute area I don't necessarily think and that is definitely put down on around here. So knowing the anatomy and knowing what to palpate and private can actually help a lot in terms of defining. Are we even on the track of thinking it's put down on a ruga or is there something else going on entirely? So that's super helpful to know.
Lindsey Vestal Absolutely. That's that's fantastic. That's fantastic. And then the other question I received is this particular routine would love to know some of your favorite home exercise activities for clients that do have potential nerve issues.
Tracy Sher So that that comes up a lot. So I belong to a lot of paternal neuralgia, patient groups, and I try to help out whenever I can. I used to go on every week and I'd see I try to bust every myth. Someone will say, Hey, you know, everyone says I should do this exercise. And I try to go on and explain. And similar to what we recommend in PT and OT that there's not one specific exercise for everyone with could handle. It's really specifically about what what irritates their symptoms and what's what makes it better. So, for example, there's a population of people that have hidden them around two types of symptoms that if they get into a deep squat or do any kind of if you do like sumo squats or any kind of squat, or if they do a deep kind of lunge, they'll immediately have symptoms that might flare for days. So that would be a person that I would not recommend doing lunges or anything like that at all. Then we have another subset of four down around here, and we figured out we think we know why based on anatomy, they actually we call them the squatters. They actually feel the best when they go into a deep squat and hang out there because we think it's actually taking pressure off the epidermal nerve the way it's almost like if you had a balloon there, your nervous kind of going around it like getting it's not actually tensile force there, it's actually going off of it. So in that way, someone who is a squatter, we might actually tell them to do kind of squatting positions too, as a nice way to relax the pelvic floor in a nice way to decrease the symptoms there. But typically, if I were to say generally across the board, if someone said, what are the top things you do a lot, I'd say it's like the happy baby, the frog like position where you have your legs open and you're relaxing the pelvic floor, arms open to the side, relaxing the jaw. So anything that can do is more considered for relaxation of the pelvic floor. That's going to be better for patients with patients with put down on a Raja, but it's not necessarily cookie cutter. There's really each patient. I really look at provocation of symptoms and I'll tell you that this gets missed a lot with pelvic pain because I'm not doing specific exercises. Someone will say, well, every time I do this I feel better and every time I do this, I feel worse. So then we create an entire program of all the things that feel better for them. And it might start out as basic. Like every time I walk for five minutes, I'm okay. But then I walk for ten and I have all of my true dental symptoms come up again. Well then let's just have you walk five minutes at a time and no more than that. So sometimes it's pretty basic stuff like that where we're just looking at what propagates and what makes it better, and then creating a program for them and slowly getting them back to the activities they really like, but doing in a way that's scaled.
Lindsey Vestal That's beautiful. So what I hear you saying is always coming back to person centered care, really listening to what nervous system wise, physical wise, all of the factors we're really looking at kind of kind of eases their symptoms and working with that and recognizing that not all to clients, even with the exact same diagnosis, are going to benefit from the same treatment protocol.
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Tracy Sher Yes. And they're all at different places. I have patients who are professional athletes who need to be at a much higher level. So we're actually trying to figure out how to scale so they don't have symptoms that really get provoked a lot. But we're really trying to get them high level. And then I have patients who have been in bed for three years that are really scared to even move at all and when they've got a lot of see phobia. So we're looking at, okay, how can I even get them to move their legs in bed? And then we go from there. So there's so many ways to look at this. And it really is person centered for sure.
Lindsey Vestal Fantastic. Fantastic. Tracy I would love to talk a little bit about business now because I know that's something that you're really passionate about and it's kind of a twofold question. One is what would you tell someone who is just starting their pelvic health business? And then what would you tell someone answering more of like, let's say, the intermediate or advanced stage of their business?
Tracy Sher Yeah. So. And actually, just so I know, some background too, which has been a really fascinating journey for me. I started my own clinical business ten years ago. It's actually the exact ten year mark of our practice. And when I started it, there was no one really doing out of network cash base at all. So it was kind of like I was on my own and I just wanted to try it, but I had no idea how it would stick. So that was kind of one aspect of business. And then the other thing is that when I started in 2018, when we started Pelvic Guru as a business, there were so many things I didn't know. I didn't really, really know what I was getting myself into. I just had this vision that I was going to have some sort of courses and have a membership. And then I was trying to figure out how to make this all work. So I have perspective on not just clinical practice, but also online businesses and how that works. And the the overarching thing I can tell you is that you will inevitably have challenges. I don't think I've had one month where I didn't have a challenge here or there, but it really is worth it. Again, if you have that passion and you really want to do something, you just have to keep asking. Again, I have said this multiple times, but if you can ask for help or when you get stuck, it really can make a difference. Instead of thinking that, I just have to give it up because there's usually usually a solution. But it's actually tricky sometimes to figure that out. And then the other thing, in terms of advancing business, I think it's really important to get comfortable with technology. You know, I know you see this, Lindsay, to like all the things that you might be using in your business, right? There's ultimately you're going to be doing something with technology. So if you don't feel comfortable using technology, it will be important to ultimately hire people even as contractors part time to help you, because that's the way you really grow business at an advanced level. And I can talk more about clinical specifically, but in terms of general business, because even in your clinical practice, you're going to need to use technology at some point or email lists and things like that. But in our other business, we had to use a lot of advanced systems in order to really keep track of everything and memberships and courses that we do. So we had to hire people or had to figure out how to learn technology. And then when the technology goes down, there's challenges or when you have to change legal things about the technology, it can seem overwhelming. But I wouldn't change a thing. I mean, I'm so happy to be in a place where these things are thriving and it's just a matter of keeping them going and knowing that you're going to hit challenges and changes in technology and.
Lindsey Vestal Congrats on your ten year mark. That's huge. What I what I really what I really love that you said Tracy is is something that is really is really honest and I really appreciate that which is that there is not a day that goes by that doesn't have its challenge. And just kind of digging into that inner resilience is really important to know that that's that we all have those ways and we all have ways of imposter syndrome waves of going recognize when we are out of our own depth. And so you're bringing up the technology is an excellent aspect example of that because yes in order to grow that is where some of the where when we're getting out of our depth to be able to raise our hand and ask for help, whether it be in a clinical scenario or whether it be knowing that we need to to embark on that next level of technology in order to go from beginner to intermediate is really important. I myself am a designer and I'm 100% guilty as charged on that. So that's a great reminder for myself as well.
Tracy Sher Yeah. And even like with clinical stuff, one of the things that I would say to which is is really exciting and also terrifying at the same time is growth is really important with clinical because at first I was doing it all by myself. We're talking the laundry, you know, the billing stuff. Everything was on my own. And ultimately you want to grow. And I would say, don't be afraid to also hire people to become therapists in your clinic and to take some of that work for you. Because first of all, you'll feel more supported, but also it allows you to at least have a business day to work on things and to make sure that you're not only doing clinical. And then the scary part that the challenge that comes with hiring people is you might have turnover. There are people that decide, I want to start my own practice now, now that I see how to do it, I want to start my own. Or by the way, we're moving, you know, we're moving across the country. So there are people that I've loved having in my practice and I just so sad that sometimes there's turnover because you put so much into it and you're really excited. So in that way, the business can go from certain revenue to lower again to higher. So there's these bumps along the road, but I'd highly recommend not being afraid to at some point have some growth and not take it on all on your own if you can.
Lindsey Vestal That's awesome. Tracy. I am so grateful for your time. So, so much wisdom shared here today. I'm going to throw in as much as I can in the show notes. Is there anything else that you want to share with our audience, whether it's places we can find you or cool things coming up that you're really excited about?
Tracy Sher Sure. Yeah. I really love to be active in communicating with everyone online, so it's not one of those things where I have a social media, but I'm not active on the opposite. I love to interact. I get lots of messages. I try to help out as much as I can so you can find me on Instagram at Pelvic Guru one and Twitter pelvic Guru one. I'm not as active there, but definitely on Instagram we do have a Facebook group, Pelvic Guru Academy, Facebook group. So that's another free thing. And then what I'm actually most proud about since you're giving me the floor to talk about this is our Fam membership stands for Global Pelvic health and let me see if I can remember now Global Pelvic Health Alliance membership. And essentially what it is, is that it's every kind of pelvic health professionals. So it puts OTs physicians, sex therapists, fitness professionals, and we're all in this mission to improve pelvic health around the globe. And so that's been really a big mission of mine to grow that we have pre-made handouts for people to use for a patients. We have a lot of business webinars, we have clinical webinars and we have a lot of support within our groups too. So if that's something you're interested in, I'd love for you to connect with that. The actual page to see more about it is basically you don't have to put it just g fam GP H.M. dot pelvic global.com and we'll have that information for you. But yeah, I would love for you to be a part of our group and it's been a true passion project that's been going on for a few years now and I love doing that.
Lindsey Vestal And the resources there are so well meet it. When you go on to the portal and you realize what you've got there, you kind of wonder how Pelvic health existed before those resources were there because they're just so indispensable. So thank you for doing that. And Tracy, thank you for always believing in OTs, in your in your very core. I can attest to that, too. When I met you ten years ago. And you've always you've always made us feel welcome. And I just can't tell you how much that means to our community. So thank you for all that you do for all pelvic health practitioners. But on behalf of voters, we're really grateful.
Tracy Sher You're so welcome. I mean, I every time, by the way, every time I see, for example, there is a journal club type of thing and there's other programs out there where it's called pelvic pain or something. And I constantly reach out and say, By the way, I'd highly recommend changing that. Can you change that to pelvic therapy or can you change it to pelvic OTP? I'm constantly trying to be an ambassador for that as well because I think it shouldn't be exclusionary and we should have more of OTs involved. So yes, I'm a big champion for for that cause.
Lindsey Vestal Thank you so much, Tracy.
Tracy Sher You're welcome.
Outro Thanks for listening to another episode of OTs and Pelvic health. If you haven't already, hop on to Facebook and join my group OTs for Pelvic health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and posted to IG Facebook or wherever you post your stuff and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you want to hear more of. Thanks again for listening to the OTs and Pelvic health podcast.
