What To Do When a Business No Longer Serves Your Needs with Lindsey Kaupp

Show Notes

• OT Pioneers: Intro to Pelvic Floor Therapy for Occupational Therapists opens for enrollment on Jan 23-27, 2023

____________________________________________________________________________________________
Pelvic OTPs United - Lindsey's off-line interactive community for $39 a month!
Inside Pelvic OTPs United you'll find:​

• Weekly group mentoring calls with Lindsey. She's doing this exclusively inside this community. These aren't your boring old Zoom calls where she is a talking head. We interact, we coach, we learn from each other.
  ​
• Highly curated forums. The worst is when you post a question on FB just to have it drowned out with 10 other questions that follow it. So, she's got dedicated forums on different populations, different diagnosis, different topics (including business). Hop it, post your specific question, and get the expert advice you need.

More info here. Lindsey would love support you in this quiet corner off social media!

Transcript

Lindsey Vestal Today's topic is a beautifully vulnerable one, where I meet up with Lindsey Kaupp and Amazing OT in our community to talk about what happens when a business no longer meets the needs in our life. And we come to the often challenging decision to actually close our business down. What do we do then and how do we process the myriad of emotions that accompany a decision like that? We go there today. 

Intro New and seasoned OTs are finding their calling in Pelvic health. After all, what's more adult than sex, peeing and poop? But here's the question. What does it take to become a successful, fulfilled and thriving O.T. in Pelvic health? How do you go from beginner to seasons and everything in between? Those are the questions and this podcast will give you the answers. We are inspired, OTs. We are out of the box, OTs. We are Pelvic health. OTs I'm your host, Lindsey Vestal and welcome to the OTs and Pelvic health Podcast. 

Lindsey Vestal Lindsey, thank you so much for bringing a returning guest for the What's Your Pelvic health podcast? I love that we're going to be having this conversation today, which is a really tender conversation and I'm most appreciative for you sharing your time with us today. 

Lindsey Kaupp We thank you for having me and thank you for allowing me to talk about something that's definitely near and dear to my heart and is something that continues to impact me daily. 

Lindsey Vestal And I'm sure there's so many of us that are going to be relate to so much of what you're going to be sharing today. And we're going to be in various processes of figuring it out. And if maybe it's a future process for some of us, maybe it's a current, maybe it's a past. But I think it's something that's that's going to be something we can all relate to in some degree. So we're going to be talking about the fact that you started a company that's called emotion therapy, and it grew out of what you wish you had in terms of pelvic health and Pelvic health resources back in 2017. And as I recall, you were three and a half months postpartum. This was, in your own words, something you shared with me privately, that it was a coping mechanism for you to start this business, and you made the decision to close this business emotion in June 2021. Can you talk with us a little bit about your decisions and your experience of shutting it down? 

Lindsey Kaupp Absolutely. So emotion therapy, like you said, was born out of what? I wish. I had more resources in my community and had actually come to my mind in 2015 with the birth of my first child, Jessica. However, when I found out I was pregnant with my second, I delayed that a little bit and then moved forward, as you know, as soon as I could postpartum. So I was already making plans for it as I was giving birth to my second child. And at the time, I didn't know it was a coping mechanism. And I knew that one of the things that I feared most and I know many people have talked about this and and isn't really the topic for today, but is a driver for a lot of us is losing my identity and. As a person in becoming a mother. And so that was a huge, huge piece for me. And I did not have the best mental health experience after my first child. And then with the birth of my second child not going the way that I had best hoped. And again, I saw myself kind of sliding into that path and I didn't want to go there. So I decided to throw myself into something that I'd always got lots of joy and purpose and meaning from, which was work and the excitement of opening a new business, which was great. Fast forward, how many years is that? For four years. I had grown. I had left my part time stable government job, which I had kept at the beginning of emotion therapy. I had hired another occupational therapist in late 2020, in the middle of the pandemic after just being shut down for four months. And and what I started to notice probably in that time that I was hiring my other therapist was that things were starting to spiral and I wasn't enjoying things. I had a lot of stress about the business. But it was also my escape from stress in other areas of my life. So there was kind of that dichotomy. It was the push, the pull. And so when I finally came to the decision that I was going to shut down the business, my brain kind of decided to go click. And just decided like you're done. Once the decision was made and I think that that was something that I wish I had done differently. But I understand now was more of a protective mechanism for myself. So it meant I started dropping a lot of things. It meant that I avoided things. It meant that I wasn't being my best therapist. I started to notice I brought myself into sessions instead of just working with the client. And so eventually the other, you know, the other stress in the life was that my mum had been diagnosed at the time with pulmonary fibrosis and lung cancer. And we didn't know how long she had. We knew she was not likely to be a lung transplant candidate. And she did try that method, but that's how they discovered the lung cancer. And so there was lots going on at home. There was lots going on at the clinic. The therapist that I hired is a go getter. And so she was hoping for more. And let's go forward and let's move. And at the same time, I was withdrawing. So it was just not that right ebb and flow at the moment. And for context, my husband lost his job as a heavy duty mechanic when his company had shut down in 2018. And we had opened up Iron Horse Diesel Mechanical, which is a diesel repair shop in 2018. And about four days before we were set to open. His father passed away. So we had had that loss already. And then we were opening multiple businesses to young kids. It could be. And lots of people told me it was a recipe for disaster. But at that time, I knew that we were working towards things that we wanted to do in our life. So it was really. Therapeutic for a while. And I think probably my stubborn nature worked against us in that area in not. Hearing what others had to say. Well, still, you know, still pursuing our own dreams, still doing our own things, but maybe just moving at a little bit different pace or doing things in a little bit different way. Because it started to impact my mental health, my marriage, my business, everything, our parenting. And so when we finally made that decision to shut down the clinic in 2021, I made that decision so that I could go work for someone else and not have to worry about lots of the business related things and spend time with my mom, which that decision I will never regret. And because she passed in April of 2022. So that that gave me time. But at the same time. Do I wish it had all been done differently? Yes. And that's really what I'm hoping to chat about today, is, you know, what are some of the factors that. Business owners, therapists, women, anyone facing in a time like this when you're looking at. That your business is no longer meeting the needs in your life. And then what? In what ways? Coming back from that. What does that look like in terms of how you can function well and still still have a business, still have your dreams, but take better care of yourself and the expectations of yourself and others. So that was really long winded, but that probably needed to get out there ahead of time. 

Lindsey Vestal Thank you. Thank you for being so vulnerable and so, so transparent with some of those processes that you were experiencing. And I really also admire very deeply your desire to talk about this in the hopes of getting information out there for people who may in a in their own version of what you've experienced. Because I just like Pelvic health and just like occupational therapy, we don't talk about this stuff. 

Lindsey Kaupp We just write. And why do we only to abuse subjects? 

Lindsey Vestal Lindsey I know. I well, there's must be something there and that's, that's another podcast. I think that's who Lindsey's going to town on that one. But I mean, so if, if you know, if you're thinking about someone in their own version, listening, listening to this podcast right now and perhaps they're wondering if their business is no longer meeting the needs in their life, what are thoughts you have or wisdom that you'd like to pass on to them for either steps they can do to maybe change that or even ways to become very introspective to figure out if that's even the place that they're in. 

Lindsey Kaupp You know, I think it's kind of funny that it just popped up in my head. But we talk a lot about self evaluation, self reflection, helping our clients do those things and meeting themselves or meeting a client where they're at and the client having kind of that just right challenge. Yeah. And I think as business owners, as therapists, whoever you might be, right. There needs to be a process for that in your life, because if you are like me, you need to evaluate your personality and know yourself really, really well. Because when things start to get really good, which can be hard because there's a lot coming at you, or when things are tough, which is also hard, you need to understand what your natural tendencies are and what you're what you are going to. What path you will take. In order to keep trying to meet your needs. And so I see that in the fact of, you know, when. We were both doing really well in emotion therapy and struggling. My natural tendency was to go bigger, go big, or go home like I am. And I think that stems from, you know, my personality, but also what others have put on me and what I've put on myself my whole life. I'm five feet tall. And the biggest compliment I always looked for when I was playing hockey and I was an elite level hockey player through university was that I played like I was six feet tall. So I would take that. That attitude forward. So if somebody told me I couldn't do something, I did. Yeah, somebody told me. Maybe you just need to grow slowly. Maybe you need to slow down. Maybe you need to spend some time with that. I was like, No. Like, yeah. And I would always be like, yeah, yeah, you're probably right. And then totally, my brain would just go the other way. And so knowing that about myself, I should have been paying attention to that. But I didn't pay attention to that. And I think people need to evaluate their own personality and their tendencies. And then I think they need to establish a couple people in their life that they really trust to give them blatant black and white feedback. About what they're seeing from yourself in good times and in bad times. So almost like a quick little body scan, but it's somebody else doing it because I don't know until you've done a lot of work, if you can 100% trust yourself to be honest with yourself when your dream is just so close or when and well, maybe get into this in a bit. But when the person on social media, when Lindsey Vestal is, you know, launching something new and you're like, I could launch that to you, or I could do like the comparison itis piece getting in the way of. On a self-evaluation when you have driven individuals who are most entrepreneurs, right? So having a couple of people who can really say, you know what, Lindsey, you're starting to pay less attention to your kids and pay more attention to your business. You skipped out on X, Y and Z with friends and family in order to make the business work. Whatever that might look like, so that they're picking up on the cues and hopefully your self evaluating and picking up on cues of when things are starting to change, when that business isn't just there for a business, when it isn't there for purpose and meaning. But when it's becoming something that you chase. Does that make sense?

Lindsey Vestal  It does. It does. And I love that. And one of the things that's come into my mind as I'm as I'm listening to you talk about it is, you know, kind of the the shame cycle or the thought processes that we go through when maybe something isn't working because we have poured so much into it. So as a quick example, your business may have been taking off to the point, you know, you're hiring another O.T., but perhaps the other areas of your life that mean as much to you or more, you know, weren't taking off. And so then it's this question of this elusive idea of balance and where our attention goes so that we can be that fulfilled individual. And, you know, through the course of our life where we can ebb and flow out of all of that. And, you know, I also lost my mom within the last year and a half and, you know, made the move back internationally from from France back to the states to be closer to my father. And, you know, it's all of these things that I think also even in Covid, it gave me a chance to to be a little bit more introspective, despite the fact that I'm also a very driven person. And so looking at our natural tendencies throughout our life, not necessarily leading to specifically the business, but how do I respond when someone says I play like a six foot hockey player? How do I respond when, you know, I was going through school and, you know, potentially discovered I had a learning disability, whatever the cases may be, we can look for factors that give us some information about the way we handle stress, the way we handle, you know, any kind of challenge, and then apply that towards this new venture of starting a business or maybe starting a family, whatever the case may be. And I think that that you're I love this idea of not only kind of knowing that about yourself first and foremost, but then having those people in your life that you could turn to. And and for me, those have been very pivotal conversations. Dear friends of mine have come into my life at the right time and kind of shared their observations of me with me. And I wasn't always able to hear it. But when I was, it was it was life changing for me as well. 

Lindsey Kaupp Yeah, I think and I think no matter what the challenges are in people's lives, everyone has had challenges, especially in the last several years, whether it be with grief loss. There's a lot of addiction happening, different things. And that's a funny story. That's actually where I thought of that coming from. And where I entered my life is having other people kind of notice for me when I wasn't able to is out of working with clients with addiction in my in my role as a mental health therapist prior to becoming or working in Pelvic health, we always wanted them to sit down and help other people and or have other people in their life help them identify when they might be sliding or having a trigger moment and what might be leading back towards behavior that they they hope to avoid and not do again using or whatever that might be. So I think it's. It is. It's universal across life. And then I think you brought up the shame cycle, which is massive. So for me, I would tell people I would do something and then I would do it 90% of the way and then I'd drop it. And I couldn't tell you why. I couldn't tell you what was going on. And it happened continually, continually, continually. And I was so mad at myself. And I still am sometimes like this. This definitely this journey is not over. But so mad and so frustrated like Lindsey, why can't you either get your stuff together for the Australians in the group? I'll say get group in group because the Australians tell me they don't say that and they always think it's funny, but like, why can't you just finish something? Or why do you keep putting out expectations? Like, I'm going to do this, so I'm going to run a pelvic health group for six weeks, and then it gets there and I'm like, I really don't want to do this right now. But I said I would. And then somehow I would self-sabotage it. And like, being very vulnerable in those things, you know, I put it into certain things and like, I don't know if anyone knows this, but in the public health world, but we're in a rodeo rich environment in rural Alberta, Canada. And so one thing that I would notice is I had lots of barrel racers coming in and people riding. And so I created a program called Sink in the Saddle, which I really it was a great program. I'm not going to lie, in my opinion, but I put it out and then I never sent the last class. It was all set up. It was whatever. And I literally pulled back the last class and refunded everybody all their money. No idea why. Like I just couldn't finish it. It was almost as if I finished something. Then. Then what do I do? And I could not reconcile that in my brain as somebody who's always been extremely goal driven and very good at achieving those goals. And I'm an outgoing person. So during Covid, that was also really hard. To be able to connect in the way that fulfilled me. And so I just started to see things kind of slowly fall piece by piece. And it was really interesting that you say that you you had some people in your life that had some of those conversations with you, as did I. I had some amazing support online through the Pelvic health community, through occupational therapists and business groups. I had local people. But. It was actually a therapist I've never met before in my life. I've never had a phone conversation with her. Just an online occupational therapist in the States. And she's asked not to be named. And that's fine. But she reached out to me and she said, Lindsey, is there any chance that you think you have ADHD? And I said no. And she's like, you know what? I just watching you over the online over the last year just makes me really wonder. And so I checked into that. Turns out, guess what? A lot of the problems that I was struggling with. Are something that lots of people struggle with. And so having a, quote unquote mental health diagnosis was also another thing for me to grapple with and to think about and but also gave an excuse for a lot of behaviors. So there was reason to that. But also excuse. And I wallowed in that excuse for a while. I was like, that's why nothing worked out. And so I really had to kind of manage that and work through that around, you know, what is my natural tendency as someone who lives with ADHD? Okay. So it's just a natural tendency, but we're still not going to use those things as an excuse. How can we build the support around it? And a really lots of people will find that I'm not as active on social media anymore, especially in the Pelvic health community, because of that shame cycle, but also because the social media piece really. Really had a negative impact on me. I felt like I had to be someone I wasn't or felt like I had to be someone I wasn't or was trying too hard to do things other people were doing, or I had a lot of pressure or felt a lot of pressure in terms of business coaching and groups and masterminds and all the different things. To sign up to all these things and I need to structure my business bigger. And what does that look like? And so I got caught up in a lot of that. And ended up just running myself ragged in circles. And then again, as I couldn't finish anything, getting mad at myself and beating myself up. So social media and I have a love hate relationship because I would never have connected with someone like yourself. The Sarah Ryan Burgers of the World. Brooke Riley You know, people who I really consider friends, even though they're not. I've only met Sarah in person out of all of those people. Lara Desroches Different pieces, right. Those are going to be meaningful relationships for many years. But I avoided the heck out of them after I decided to shut down my clinic because I felt like I had failed all of them. Which is not true in any way, shape or form. But it's how I felt. And social media drove that home again and again and again. So that's the other piece that I wanted to talk to people about is just really making sure that when we're engaging in social media, that we also take time to step back and frame and really get perspective. Think about where we are in our lives, in our businesses, where other people are. And then always coming back to how does this best serve me? And that sounds selfish, but. Social media needs to be a tool in business that helps you, not that drives you down. And it can be both at the same time. And it's a very interesting double edged sword. So I love that there has been more and more attention brought to that lately. But I also feel like as entrepreneurs, we are pushed, pushed, pushed in the social media world. So it can be really difficult. 

Lindsey Vestal So how what would you describe your relationship now that you're being very intentional with social media and, you know, really was able to identify with the clarity that you're speaking about it with today, its role in in your mental health. What how are you approaching it now, Lindsey.

Lindsey Kaupp And I don't think. I don't think I've really. How do I say that? I still don't love it. I do still use it. I love social media for the connection. Connection is one of my core values. Connecting with others in any way, shape or form is what lights me up. So it serves me in that way and I don't want to undermine that. But it's really funny and you know this about me. So I have gone back to Pelvic health and that has been interesting and difficult as well, working in someone else's clinic as a contractor. But I have also put a lot of time and effort towards real estate, so creating accessible housing rentals in our province. And I've had to jump back into social media with a business mindset. 

Lindsey Vestal Lindsey here, excuse the interruption, just popping to say that OT Pioneers introduction of pelvic floor therapy is opening for the first time in 2023. January 23rd through January 27th. It would be such an honor to support you in the introductory foundational stages of your pelvic floor journey. Head over to w w w o t pioneers.com to learn more. You can also find the link in the show notes. Now let's go back to the interview with Lindsey. 

Lindsey Kaupp In doing that and if I think therapist and social media is bad, look, we're all caregivers. We're all therapists. We're all thinking about making others feel well. The world of real estate is freaking cutthroat. And it's it's money driven, right? Like that's that's most people's purpose for being. There is a profit base. And and I it is one of mine as well. And so I've really had. An ebb and flow relationship coming back into social media in terms of any use for business. And personally, because personally I might see somebody online who I didn't answer or, you know, wanted to do something work together in the Pelvic health world, for example, and I just ghosted them. And that that still brings me shame. And so I'm trying to work back through those things and those people and finding out that everyone is actually terribly supportive individuals and it doesn't feel that way before you talk to them. And then having to deal with that from that real estate side, you know, they're hammering home like marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing. And I'm like, I honestly don't want to do it that way anymore. And that's okay with me. But it's really it's been interesting having pressure from other side saying you need to do more. When when I was doing pelvic health, my family and different people were like, Lindsey, you need to stop putting all this stuff out on social media because it was a topic they're not comfortable with, and B because they saw that it was taking a negative toll on my life. Whereas now people because real estate is more acceptable a lot to people too. They're like, you got to do more. You got to tell people what you're doing. And I'm like, Yeah. So I have held myself back in terms of business in doing that. So I'm trying very hard to be. Mindful that social media does not a business make. Right? Yeah. And that those stories. Yeah. If you don't pose for 24 hours, you might fall out of the algorithm. But guess what? Your business didn't end. And those were only there for 24 hours. It's temporary. It's fleeting. Not everyone's watching. Yet you feel that way? That's right. So just being, like you said, intentional, but also noticing when I when I do dive back into older tendencies of like, okay, I got to do this and I'm a sprinter, not a marathoner. And embracing that. So yeah, I might check out my social media for a month and then I know it doesn't help the business algorithms. But then taking like two weeks off. But being intentional, saying I'm going to do it, and then actually following through and not being apologetic to others. When I'm like, now I'm good. I, you know, I'm not I'm not here to do for everything. I'm not here to create content daily for everyone out in the world. I have my mission statement. I know what I want to do in Pelvic health and in accessible rentals and in my family. And that's how I'm going to go about this, even if it's not the most business savvy. Strategy. Does that make sense?

Lindsey Vestal Yeah. And what I really hear as I listen to you is a lot around intentionality and authenticity for what is best for your rhythm. So not what's best for the quote unquote algorithm and what's expected of us from these, you know, I don't know, unknown ghost figures that, you know, are quote unquote, guiding what we're supposed to be doing, but rather going, this is the rhythm, the works for me. So I'm going to take two weeks off. And ultimately, who wins from that? You do. Your clients do, your family does. You know what I mean? So who cares about what it is we're supposed to do? And I think that sometimes we have to, unfortunately, kind of go through that cycle. I know throughout my life I have to learn lessons the hard way very often. And so I think that the silver lining in what you're sharing is that so much of what you went through has gotten you to this place of clarity. And and you're now at a point, Lindsey, where you're sharing that clarity with us. And so it's it's it's it's really beautiful. It's beautiful to to share this time with you and to share these experiences with you, because I really hope that it can give pause and food for thought for people who are struggling in their own ways with some of these very similar thought patterns. And I have to say that, you know, I think we're around the same age. I'm I'm in my mid-forties and I think often about my ten year old daughter and my eight year old son and how if we're struggling with some of the pressures of social media and we didn't grow up with social media, imagine. Right. And I'm sure you think about this with your two girls. You know, it's like, what is that? And so I'm I'm also being very intentional in a fast forward way, knowing and anticipating what's coming down the road and these pressures that are so real for us even as adults. So don't want to go off on a tangent there. But it. 

Lindsey Kaupp Absolutely 

Lindsey Vestal It's worth it's worth noting and thinking about and I and I want to I want to think much more about this as, as as my parenting here goes on. So, Lindsey, I have I have one I guess one last question for you. And it's kind of something we just talked about, but it's a little bit more, I guess, a high level overview question, which is now looking back and kind of thinking about the expectations of work of both the real estate business, you know, you're working for someone else now as an employee doing Pelvic health I'm sure you're doing a lot with your husband's business, Cody's business, your family. How are you overall managing your own expectations, especially with your new diagnoses and everything expectations for your own life and being able to communicate that to those around you? 

Lindsey Kaupp Yeah, that's a great question. It's before we jump into my expectation, it's really important, I think, to kind of note that there is other expectations on you from all around, whether it be, you know, as you said, I'm working in a, in a physio clinic now, and so there's an expectation there. My husband has his business running. There's expectation there. My kids have expectations, schools have expectations, all the different things. And. I'm still not great, honestly, at managing everyone else's expectations or my own, but I'm just trying to work through what what works for me in that moment. And sometimes it's not always the right answer or the right action, but it's kind of giving me some data to look at when I do this and I act in the moment on what I feel is the best course of action to an expectation. Whether that's saying no or whether that's saying yes. Whether that's choosing one thing over another and it's giving me information and then just kind of continually tweaking and really being, as you said, intentional about thinking back to my expectation of there is an expectation, for example, that I am involved in my husband's business. And I would say that my husband would not have started a business if he wasn't with me, hands down. Quote, He is not the quote unquote, visionary entrepreneur that that I like to think of myself to be. But he is great at what he does and he's done really well. But it's actually worked better since I've removed myself. And so the expectation was always that I would be helping Cody behind the scenes, helping, helping, helping. And then from family, from friends, from Cody and from myself. And then when I realized that I'm not helping, I'm hindering and he's not helping. He's hindering in terms of our marriage, our relationship. So I've taken a giant step back. So that's one way I've managed that expectation. I am actually. It's funny I say that I am going to be helping him again for the next couple of months because we are short staff again, but we've come at that in a very different way, creating set expectations. What hours will I be working on these things? What, what tasks do I do and not taking on more. And the other thing is, is I'm not telling and I'm a bossy person, to be honest. I'm not telling him how to run his business because truly it is his business. So and then, you know, managing expectations at home, the different things. Like you said, you have your ten year old daughter and your eight year old son. I have a five and a seven year old, both girls, and they are becoming vocal about their expectations. It's really interesting. But I guess I should expect nothing less for my own daughter. So. I have had to eat a lot of humble pie lately when my kids have told me what the expectation is or what they would like to be doing. And sometimes, you know, it's a no or whatever we're doing. We need to do this first, first this, then that. Right. However. It's been very interesting having. Unfiltered observational feedback about my own expectations. So, for example, we did not put up our Christmas tree til like four days before Christmas because we told my seven year old, we are not putting up the tree until you have actually fully cleaned your room, cleaned it, vacuumed it, all those things. And she looked at me and she was. But, ma'am, your room's a mess right now. You know, as my tendency is, I'm going to clean the rest of the house, and then if someone's coming over, it's getting chucked in my room so that we can, you know, have a good, tidy, common space. And she just and I was like, You're right. I'm expecting things of a seven year old that I have not followed through on an expectation for myself. So, like you said, just managing the managing those in the moment. Asking for feedback like, is this realistic? So my husband and I went through a very rough spot in the last little while or say last probably year, but really have come out the other side on talking about how do we communicate. So I am much more clear in my communication of this is what I'm doing, you know, does this work? How do we make this work together? And him being clear in his expectations, because his natural tendency is almost like a passive aggressive piece. So lets it slide, lets it slide and then brings things back up. Kind of throw it in. Throw it in someone's face right then. Like, don't get me wrong. Cody's the kind person in the world that I know, but everyone gets frustrated. And so it's been very interesting to hear honest, clear communication from many people in our lives about what what's going on and giving that clear communication back. I think that's probably the biggest change is before I would have just tucked it all inside and just been like, I'll figure it out, I'll do it myself and I'll figure it out and I'll figure out a way to do all of these things. And I'm going to look like a rock star. Will I do it? Even if that is the furthest thing from the truth that I'm feeling? So I was essentially and you talked about authenticity, living a lot of lie, and that didn't feel good. So it's been much more pleasant to be my genuine self. 

Lindsey Vestal Yeah. Now, what a beautiful experience for your daughters to see. And I love I really appreciate that story that you shared around the other expectations. So my question was around expectations you have for yourself and in managing them and of relationships. But I love that you brought up the story about about Cody, about your husband, because you're right, sometimes that's even a weightier, a more weightier aspect of how we're coping and dealing and struggling. And so I really appreciate you answering that question that way because it's yet another undiscussed aspect of of dealing with all of these all of these complex, very, very human emotion. 

Lindsey Kaupp Well, it lands. And I think you would relate to this. You know how your husband and yourself are both business minded, entrepreneur minded people, right? And one of the biggest struggles that I had was. That my everyone. I would ask how Kody's business was doing and no one asked about. Because they assumed from what I put out that everything was hunky dory. And they also didn't want to talk about pelvic health, but. And that was that bred resentment and sat there for years until I finally lost it on I think it was my parents. It was like you guys always everyone always asked about Cody's business. No one asked about mine. Even though at the time my business was more successful and that really grated my grind of my years at the time. And it was really interesting to see their reaction because they were like, We know you can do great things. But, you know, Cody isn't the same as you. And so we always feel we need to give him more support. And I was like, that's really interesting, right? And again, that clear communication, my expectation was support from everyone in their own way. And when I didn't feel I was getting not it, it changed dynamic. And that was not okay. Right. So I think it's really that's the key piece there. Like you talked about things, things do change and move forward. But. Being honest with those who you trust especially is going to make managing those expectations easier. And you talked about my expectations versus others. Make sure that you actually ask what their expectations are. Aren't making up things in your own head. Yeah, because that's another giant topic of the things that grow in our head when we are not aware. And when we don't. Don't take the time to be clear with one another. Yeah. As businesspeople, as partners, as parents, you know, even with our employees and our where I guess now for me to my to my boss. Different things, right? 

Lindsey Vestal Yeah. So, So well said. And I could talk to you about these things for hours. I for the sake of. Of brevity and timing, is there anything else that is on your mind that you want to share with our listeners around anything around these really important topics that we're discussing today? 

Lindsey Kaupp Yeah. I think I appreciate you chatting with me about all this today, and I hope people understand that this is a big piece of my journey. And I. I reached out to Lindsey and asked to talk about this because it is part of my healing. So I am so grateful that you've allowed me to do this. And for others, I hope it's very helpful. The the big thing that I guess I want people to leave with is to understand that even if something feels like a failure. So that would be the word I would have associated with emotion therapy about a year and a half ago. It's a it's all a learning experience. And I know that sometimes comes across almost in a toxic positivity kind of way, but. Coming back to Pelvic health coming back to that community, coming back to running a business with four functions, say homes like in the accessible housing piece. I have learned so much in the past that now when I move forward, I feel stronger and more capable to do those things in a much healthier and. Aligned way. So I hope that if anybody is leaving a season of their life, whether that be business, whether that be marriage, whether that be anything. Right. Nothing was a failure. But you do need to spend the time going back through and it will be painful going back through and owning up to what your own pieces are in that and then figuring out how to then move forward. And it's okay. You are in your head as the biggest monster, right? But around you are supportive, amazing people, particularly in the occupational therapy world, particularly in the entrepreneurial world. So finding people who will support you after not chatting with them for a year and saying like Helen's, it's great to see you back on here. Missed you. That meant more than people ever knew. Yeah. 

Lindsey Vestal Yeah. That's beautiful. I am so grateful, so appreciative for everything that you shared with us today. And thank you, Linz, for just being everything that you are. You're you're really an incredible inspiration for me and for our for our community. So I really value your time with us today and your vulnerability and everything you shared with us. 

Lindsey Kaupp Thank you, Lindsey, for having me. And I hope it helps someone. 

Outro Thanks for listening to another episode of OTs and Pelvic health. If you haven't already, hop on to Facebook and join my group OTs for Pelvic health, where we have thousands of OTs at all stages of their Pelvic health career journey. This is such an incredibly supportive community where I go live each and every week. If you love this episode, please take a screenshot of this episode on your phone and posted to IG Facebook or wherever you post your stuff and be sure to tag me and let me know why you like this episode. This will help me to create in the future what you want to hear more of. Thanks again for listening to the OTs and Pelvic health podcast.